Defiler, what did I do wrong?

[sparr0]

I played Defiler for the first time today, in a 1v1 against Warbeast. Aside from every other question I have, I must know how the ultimate is supposed to work. At one point I was doing about 150 damage per second with my main attack, and had 6 unfettered seconds to attack Warbeast (who had 11 armor and 2100 hp at the time) due to some inattentiveness on his part. I launched my ultimate at the start of the encounter, and then directly attacked Warbeast. The result? About 1000 true damage (between my attacks and my ultimate) in the 6 seconds before I ran, and about 100 damage healed to me when my ultimate finished ~15 seconds later.

I see multiple guides saying that Defiler is great for newbies, with an amazing ultimate, and I just don't get it. For an ability that you have to almost-channel (by attacking, right?), 500* damage in 6 seconds doesn't seem so hot.

I know that this particular matchup isn't a great example, since Warbeast is overpowered in 1v1 and Defiler's silence is a lot less useful in smaller games, but I am only addressing the damage and usefulness of the ultimate here.

* - let's assume that it didn't hit anything in the remainder of the time, so 100 heal means 500 damage dealt. I notice the spell description says the heal caps at 1000... how on earth could it deal 5000 damage?

[Sirroelivan]

Because it bounces.

[Huysman]

You can't base anything off 1v1, this game is not meant for that.
Defiler's ultimate is best used on targets who are not moving very much in team fights which is why it's great with allies who have aoe snare/stun/root. You start off a teamfight with your silence, nuke, and after that there's nothing to do but pop your ult and attack the most dangerous target, and use any item abilities. It's also more renowned for it's pushing capabilities than its use in teamfights but by no teams does that mean its bad for them.

[MrCosgrove]

I played Defiler for the first time today, in a 1v1 against Warbeast. Aside from every other question I have, I must know how the ultimate is supposed to work. At one point I was doing about 150 damage per second with my main attack, and had 6 unfettered seconds to attack Warbeast (who had 11 armor and 2100 hp at the time) due to some inattentiveness on his part. I launched my ultimate at the start of the encounter, and then directly attacked Warbeast. The result? About 1000 true damage (between my attacks and my ultimate) in the 6 seconds before I ran, and about 100 damage healed to me when my ultimate finished ~15 seconds later.

I see multiple guides saying that Defiler is great for newbies, with an amazing ultimate, and I just don't get it. For an ability that you have to almost-channel (by attacking, right?), 500* damage in 6 seconds doesn't seem so hot.

I know that this particular matchup isn't a great example, since Warbeast is overpowered in 1v1 and Defiler's silence is a lot less useful in smaller games, but I am only addressing the damage and usefulness of the ultimate here.

* - let's assume that it didn't hit anything in the remainder of the time, so 100 heal means 500 damage dealt. I notice the spell description says the heal caps at 1000... how on earth could it deal 5000 damage?

every little ghost you spawn with your ultimates deals damage to random enemies around you in a certain aoe (don't nail me on the numbers)
what is making this spell noob-friendly?
-just activate it, not much to do more
what to do to use it more efficently?
-use it when no or not many creeps are around or get rid of them
do i have to channel her ultimate?
-no you don't her ghost auto attacks nearby enemies on their own; even if you run away from your enemiy they will still get loads of dmg from your ultimate as long as it is active
how can it deal so much damage?
-all the ghost have a medicore attack with a medicore atkspeed (as long as i remember this right) but there are so many that attack and they last a pretty long time; also you should try to get the maximum out of your ulti and try to stay near enemies asd long as you can when your ulti is still active
what makes her ulti even more amazing?
-her ulti hits towers; when no creep are around you can take a tower down in a few seconds with your ulti

[sparr0]

When I had him at my mercy for 6 seconds, my ulti did 500 damage, while there was nothing else for the ghosts to hit. About 50% of them seemed to follow my attacks, but they just didn't do much damage.

In the same game I had him chasing me for the entire duration of my ult, in melee range (he was maybe 5 move speed faster than me, so he got to hit me every few seconds as he caught up), and it did less than 500 damage over the full 20(?) seconds. There were no other targets around, but 90% of the ghosts just wandered around beside/ahead of me, very few of them attacked him.

[Jrix]

Probably wasn't 5 seconds, humans tend to suck at judging such intervals of time in the heat of a moment.

Probably had a lot of your images in a different location, so you mus include travel time. (such as the act of casting it, they must travel from you to him)

And it probably did more than 500 damage.

[Blet1]

In dota 6.59d Krobelus was basically instant win when you got bloodstone , nothing in the game outdamages her ulti pretty much she has an awesome silence and a good low cd nuke

[Th3Th1ng]

Defilers ult is used to push down TOWERS. Thats its main purpose

[EvilPenguin]

I believe it does about 4k damage with full upgrades. It is a little different than in dota I've seen in hon where the ghosts will devastate someone in under a second as though they are a nuke and they are not extremely fast so if you are running away or running after someone they have a hard time catching up to do damage I'm not sure what the ghosts runspeed are.

[Moreilator]

Hard to judge you also have to consider that mabye some of that damage was hitting his wolves. Sheepstick would have made that a win for ya.

[inDe_eD]

I played Defiler for the first time today, in a 1v1 against Warbeast.
That, right there, is what you did wrong. Defiler is not a 1v1 hero.

[KARTlK]

Her ult does physical damage. Warbeast probably had a lot of +armor.

[ImShadz]

Her ult does physical damage. Warbeast probably had a lot of +armor.
Her ult does superior damage.


<ability
name="Ability_Defiler4"

icon="icon.tga"

maxlevel="3"
requiredlevel="6,11,16"

actiontype="target_self"
casteffecttype="SuperiorMagic"

manacost="200,300,400"
cooldowntime="100000"
casteffect="effects/cast.effect"
>
<onimpact effectdescription="true">
<spawnaffector name="Affector_Defiler_Ability4" target="target_entity"/>
</onimpact>

<modifier key="Defiler_Ability3_1" modpriority="100"
description2="true"
/>

<modifier key="Defiler_Ability3_2" modpriority="100"
description2="true"
/>

<modifier key="Defiler_Ability3_3" modpriority="100"
description2="true"
/>

<modifier key="Defiler_Ability3_4" modpriority="100"
description2="true"
/>
</ability>

[Perryhoden1]

defiler rocks on 5on5!

1. With her silence you can almost hit 3-4 of 5 Enemey Heros on Teambattles
2. With her Wave she can Hit also 3-4 Heros in Teambattles and the Wave has a realy short CD
3. Her Wave can Stop realy fast Pushes by standing savly behind the tower (2 Waves and all enemy creeps are down)
4. Her Ulti will kick asses like hell in teamfights and is not breakable by Stuns, Morphs or Silence (just by dieing)
5. Her Ulti will kick Towers and Rax in some seconds

The only things you need to rock with Defiler are Health (you need much HP so you can stay long in Teamfights and your Ulti can do so much damage), Mana (so you can Spam your Wave and Silence) and against Melees some Armor (if you have allready enough HP)

[Desirable]

Note that Defiler's ult also has a psychological aspect - the scare factor.
Not many players would dare to rush a Defiler placed at the back of the team with her ultimate on.

[NullDragon]

Note that Defiler's ult also has a psychological aspect - the scare factor.
Not many players would dare to rush a Defiler placed at the back of the team with her ultimate on.

Yeah, despite the fact that the ult goes away immediately when she dies, they don't want to risk the (miniscule) damage that you'll get if you rush in there and kill her before the ult does too much damage.

[Senatic]

Yeah, despite the fact that the ult goes away immediately when she dies, they don't want to risk the (miniscule) damage that you'll get if you rush in there and kill her before the ult does too much damage.


Well that's why she stand in the back with her team in front of her, if someone rushes they will most likely die before ever reaching her making a direct frontal attack pretty useless, and even if the whole team rushes her, as long as you have aoe stuns or nukes the team rushing would lose the battle, even if they take down defiler.

[DrZoidberg1]

Yeah, despite the fact that the ult goes away immediately when she dies, they don't want to risk the (miniscule) damage that you'll get if you rush in there and kill her before the ult does too much damage.
Or the huge amount of damage they'll take if they get disabled somewhere along the way.

[Pogona]

Defiler needs a team that is good enough to support her effectively, that means choosing heroes with skills that complement hers and the individuals skills to use them. In my experience a stun-heavy team is crucial for her, but that may not always be the case.

Shes a little bit like pyro in the fact that shes really meant to do some serious nuke damage, but her ulti can really rape multiple heros with proper protection and support. She is usually built tanky cause like others said that ulti makes people focus her, which means that they are not going after others on your team. If they dont focus you, feel free to jam 30 some angry spirits up their asses.

If your team doesnt support you effectively, you will be almost useless in the best case scenario, and you will feed badly in the worst case.

If you really like defiler (which i do), you should play her in some 5v5s and read the great guide on her in the premium guides section. Take note though that sac stone was nerfed since the guide was written, which was almost a direct nerf to defi herself.

[GentleGroove]

Tank her up, its your main role. :) Heart, Frost Plate, etc. Normally start with 3-4 bracers to own early game. If you have your ulti on, and people chase you, they will get raped.

[Tripwyr]

Her ult does superior damage.

Incorrect, her ultimate is superior magic, which means it ignores Magic Immunity. The units deal hero damage AKA physical damage.


attackeffecttype=""
attacktype="melee"
combattype="Hero"
drawonmap="false"

[LightRain]

Her ult does superior damage.
No, her ult is superior magic type. That means it goes through magic immunity. All ultimate spells are superior magic.
The ghosts do physical damage. The only attack in the game that does Superior Magic damage is Puppet's ult.

[Lolololage]

Try playing defiler in a 5v5 situation. Your ult will make it almost suicidal for a team to come near you, meaning your free to push a tower every minute.

3 towers at lvl8 dead means massive gold and usually kill advantage for any team with defiler.

Kill the towers, rush kong while they try to defend. Win.

Her ult needs only to be active to deal damage, then just look for anyone your team stuns and attack them, your ult WILL kill them if they stay still for more than 1 second.

[Soli]

1v1 against a non-caster tank is literally the worst matchup imaginable for Defiler. Defiler is best at pushing and killing squishies. Still, either Warbeast stacked tons of damage reduction or your numbers are probably way off. If you actually had a solid 6 seconds next to Warbeast with your ult chewing away, it should have done around 1k damage alone.

At any rate, fixed damage aoe pusher in 1v1 = autoloss.

[POOPYBUTT]

Defiler's ultimate is amazing in 5v5 teambattles, when you can let the spirits just do their thing. In 1v1 it's nearly worthless.

[Torguemada]

Defiler is one of the best heroes to stop enemies that are chasing your ally.
When you see an ally running with an enemy in hot pursuit, just try to position your self directly to their route, pop ulti, use wave towards enemy and then focus attack him with ulti. That's an almost quranteed kill on one chaser and usually at least makes a larger enemy group turn around.

It does amazing damage when all the spirits hit same enemy at the same time, it's really funny when your chasing someone with the ult on and some quishy int stunner runs in to save "smartly" positioning himself between you and the spirits, only to be oneshotted by all the 23 spirit hitting him at the same time becouse i changed target.

[waekkau]

note: defiler's ult attacks random units around her as long as she doesnt have a target....

if defiler targets a unit ( auto attack)... her ult attacks only the targeted unit until you cancel the auto attack

so apparently you can focus all souls at a target if you auto attack it.

[_Archangel_]

When you attack something, all your ghosts focus the hell out of it.

[HumbleXuch]

Im pritty sure you can direct the ghost by right clicking on a target, even if its not in your normal attack range.

While we are on the top of defiler, can i go invis after popping her ult withouth braking it?

And yeah, dont play 1 v 1, it doesnt work in this game, unless mabey you take the same hero, i guess if you want to messure skill or something that might work.

[LightRain]

While we are on the top of defiler, can i go invis after popping her ult withouth braking it?
It's not channeling, anything short of dying will not stop it. The only ability more persistent is Torturer's stabby skill, which keeps going after he's dead.

[PistoIero]

Nobody found the awnser yet?

Defiler's ult deals LOTS of small dmg attacks. If warbeast had a helm of the black legion, buckler or the new botts. Defiler's ult damage is reduced by a HUGE amount (since every hit is greatly diminished).

Especially in the case of the helm, pretty much cuts the effectiveness of the ult by 70%.

(btw, ult does phisical dmg, only the activation is considered a "superior magic")

[noRaki]

Defilers ult is used to push down TOWERS. Thats its main purpose

we had this fight 3 vs 1 defiler and she won with her ulti eat us all 1 by 1
& scout is only made for when spectators slots are full

[TreeHorse]

we had this fight 3 vs 1 defiler and she won with her ulti eat us all 1 by 1 & scout is only made for when spectators slots are full

Sounds like she had some HP and simply nuked you down one by one. Squishy heroes I assume?


Nobody found the awnser yet?

Defiler's ult deals LOTS of small dmg attacks. If warbeast had a helm of the black legion, buckler or the new botts. Defiler's ult damage is reduced by a HUGE amount (since every hit is greatly diminished).

Especially in the case of the helm, pretty much cuts the effectiveness of the ult by 70%.

(btw, ult does phisical dmg, only the activation is considered a "superior magic")

Actually that was fixed a while back - the damage from her ult cannot be reduced by shield blocking effects. Same goes for Pollywog's Wards.

[Th3Th1ng]

we had this fight 3 vs 1 defiler and she won with her ulti eat us all 1 by 1
& scout is only made for when spectators slots are full
Then your team stupidly fed the Defiler.