Hellbringer. Just the same as warlock. But...

[Harrypotte2]

With 2 more rape spells.
I dont know what S2 were thinking when they made hellbringer.

His lifesteal is just sick... the duration is 10s and the cooldown i 7s... WTF?? And it also amplifies spelldamage....

Also its a freaking AoE spell, meaning cast it on enemy hero + a few creeps, ur teamm8 throws in an aoe spell and you are full hp again.

During a 5v5 teamfight I have tanked like no other hero, this hellbringer is the ultimate tank, but not many ppl have realised this yet. (obviously when they do realise this imba tanking spell they wont focus hellbringer anymore).

example:

you are pushing with 5, you are in front of their base. What do you do? Simple:
- cast your instant stun ultimate
- cast the lifesteal spell on 1-3 heroes + a few creeps(all 5 is unlikely to happen).
- tank the tower and creeps
- enemy heroes will go mad and cast some spells on you
- you are at 30-50% hp
- teamm8s go wtf is this idiot hellbringer doing and start to cast spells on enemy heroes
- you are at full hp again, and tanked the first wave of enemy spells without losing any hp in the end.
- continue the fight
- rape
- RAPE.
- WIN

ps. not to mention he has a sick slow, every slow in HoN seem to stack with eachother. Many times I have seen ppl crawling around like turtles, only happens in dota with bristlebacks goo...

bu bu but if Enemy has scout then its GG, his vanish and insane movementspeed will make you.... uhm... DIE.

[FiNGERS]

The lifesteal skill needs to scale better, as in you don't get 50% lifesteal at level 1. Maybe 20/30/40/50 or something, but definitely not 50% all levels.

[Grotesco]

Dear harry potter...
let me put in few words how he is not OP.
-no escape mechanisms. You can get out of guard, silenced, stuned etc.
-His slow causes no damage to the enemy. Compare to other heroes that can slow AND damage with a single spell.
-its only 50% of damage that heals you. Some times its your team taking damage, not dealing damage.

[Tyrando]

The healing spell is definately insane, especially when people have no idea how it works.

His Dot seems fine since it costs ~190 mana to cast, and well we all need a snare eh?.

[Jake]

Warlock in dota was a bit broken, because of two useless skills. Just get used to his skills. With stunlock his dead before you can blink your eyes.

This guy will be a famous pick in comp games, because of good pushing abilities and this 3rd skill will boost your team damage a lot. One of the best supporters with nyph.

[Isin]

Dear harry potter...
let me put in few words how he is not OP.
-no escape mechanisms. You can get out of guard, silenced, stuned etc.
-His slow causes no damage to the enemy. Compare to other heroes that can slow AND damage with a single spell.
-its only 50% of damage that heals you. Some times its your team taking damage, not dealing damage.

1. His enormous survivability is the only escape mechanism you need. Just pop your ult and run all the way back to base and see if they're willing to chase you that far.
2. Who gives a ****? He gets enough damage from his other stuff
3. This is what really showed me that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Hellbringer initiates teamfights, and the purpose of his combo is to turn them in your favor.

[Fuji1]

there is no question about him beeing op or not, he is.

[Travakh]

We need a nerubian assassin in this game to knock him around a bit.

As it stands hellbringer + glacius = hellbringer can never, ever be driven out of lane, which is broken.

[Euphoria]

Play some comp games. Honestly.

After hellbringer ultimates, no one cares about him at all in fights, he is used up, useless. No one will ever bother going after him unless he gets stomped under a pile of AOEs. You're making the assumption the other team doesn't know what his skills do. Any decent team will take out the initiator first late game (Tempest,Behemoth, etc.) then follow up with the carry/INT DPS, usually a torturer, thunderbringer, soulstealer, etc. While hellbringer falls under the initiator category, his range is so large, people just wait for him to ultimate, or for someone to slip up to take out a teammate. NO ONE, and i repeat, NO ONE is dumb enough to focus him in a team fight when he puts out near nil damage.

Your argument relies on this point to say he's OP, which he isn't.

[Sappo]

The pet not being killable by hand of midas or diffusal blade is a bit broken.

[Lethe]

does life void stack with itself?

[Sabre]

Torturer and Defiler don't have escape mechanisms? Stuns and silences help you immensely when you're running away. Nevermind defiler's one of the fastest heroes in the game.

I pretty much agree with Euphoria on this. Any player who knows what he does just doesn't focus on him in teamfights.

[Harrypotte2]

Play some comp games. Honestly.

After hellbringer ultimates, no one cares about him at all in fights, he is used up, useless. No one will ever bother going after him unless he gets stomped under a pile of AOEs. You're making the assumption the other team doesn't know what his skills do. Any decent team will take out the initiator first late game (Tempest,Behemoth, etc.) then follow up with the carry/INT DPS, usually a torturer, thunderbringer, soulstealer, etc. While hellbringer falls under the initiator category, his range is so large, people just wait for him to ultimate, or for someone to slip up to take out a teammate. NO ONE, and i repeat, NO ONE is dumb enough to focus him in a team fight when he puts out near nil damage.

Your argument relies on this point to say he's OP, which he isn't.

If you are talking about Warlock then its true. Dont tell me that his new spells dont effect his usefulness after he casts his ultimate. Also his ultimate is buffed a lot. Instant stun and his Demon cant be purged.

You are incorrect if you are talking about Hellbringer. The point is, his ultimate doesnt only stun and do damage, but this demon cant be beaten down without focussing on it for like at least 5s. (cant be purged).

So he is an initiator, and can still be a decent threat after his ultimate. he has a really annoying slow that stacks with every other slow, he can perma amplify spell damage on several heroes. ITS SICK.

he doesnt die. Why? Its not worth focussing on him, but if you do, you wont succeed anyway, his lifesteal spell is just insane.

[Lywrek]

Hellbringer is only OP early game. Any strength hero or other tank hero will just out scale him tremendously. Early game he is amazing though. Life void + DoT and lolololol. Farm up a Codex quick for some insane early game harassment and then let your carry do the rest when everyone just out regens your damage.

And if the other team has Dark Lady, prepare to be useless.

[Tyrando]

does life void stack with itself?

No it doesnt but with a 7 second cooldown and a duration of 10 seconds you can get a really clear picture.

Not that it needs to with 50% at all levels ><

[jackkbro]

lategame his dot is not good meaning he has his ulti and autoattack for dmg. he does have a nice snare and heal thing though

[Xitras]

Change it to 25 percent healing and its ok.

[Lethe]

...I don't see how reducing magic reduction below 0%, an aoe nuke every 6 secs and a snare to boot makes him "useless" after he ults. The only hero possibly more OP then hellbringer is DL and that is solely because of cover of darkness. At least hellbringer isn't a carry.

[Frog100]

The only hero possibly more OP then hellbringer is DL and that is solely because of cover of darkness. At least hellbringer isn't a carry.

I hear DL gets picked more than Defiler

[Azariah]

If you nerf his early game, then buff his late game.

[Darkstrand]

Play some comp games. Honestly.

After hellbringer ultimates, no one cares about him at all in fights, he is used up, useless. No one will ever bother going after him unless he gets stomped under a pile of AOEs. You're making the assumption the other team doesn't know what his skills do. Any decent team will take out the initiator first late game (Tempest,Behemoth, etc.) then follow up with the carry/INT DPS, usually a torturer, thunderbringer, soulstealer, etc. While hellbringer falls under the initiator category, his range is so large, people just wait for him to ultimate, or for someone to slip up to take out a teammate. NO ONE, and i repeat, NO ONE is dumb enough to focus him in a team fight when he puts out near nil damage.

Your argument relies on this point to say he's OP, which he isn't.

If you think he's useless after he ults, you're doing it wrong.

[Elerion]

If you think he's useless after he ults, you're doing it wrong.
Please provide a list of heroes that represents less of a threat 2 seconds into a team battle than Hellbringer.

Hellbringer is incredibly durable in a team battle, but that is relatively irrelevant considering there is very little reason to focus him until all his team mates are down.

[Darkstrand]

Please provide a list of heroes that represents less of a threat 2 seconds into a team battle than Hellbringer.

Hellbringer is incredibly durable in a team battle, but that is relatively irrelevant considering there is very little reason to focus him until all his team mates are down.

You mean the fact he has a 50% slow with an insane duration and an insane CD? You can kite people around all fight, especially if they're a little dazed looking for a target.

You're supposed to be pushing around 25-30 minutes mark to make use of this hero.. Not at the point where the opposing team is stacked to high hell, as you're suggesting Hellbringer is only good for "2 seconds".

[Elerion]

So where was that list or heroes that are less dangerous (aka - lower priority to kill) than Hellbringer 2 seconds into the fight?

I never said he was useless. I'm saying he's (barring any extreme differences in farm) arguably the hero that causes the least harm after his initial spell volley, thus his survivability is a rather moot point.

[Darkstrand]

So where was that list or heroes that are less dangerous (aka - lower priority to kill) than Hellbringer 2 seconds into the fight?

I never said he was useless. I'm saying he's (barring any extreme differences in farm) arguably the hero that causes the least harm after his initial spell volley, thus his survivability is a rather moot point.

I'll break it down for you as best as I can.

Low cooldown = good.

[Elerion]

So you couldn't think of any heroes that would be lower priority to kill after the initial volley?

Let me help you: Behemoth. Although his initiate is vastly more powerful than Hellbringer's.

Can you name even one hero that contributes less to a team fight after the first 2 seconds, and doesn't outshine Hellbringer completely in those two first seconds? If you can't, the point is obvious: The fact that his selfheal is extremely potent is irrelevant when he won't get targeted anyhow.

[Darkstrand]

So you couldn't think of any heroes that would be lower priority to kill after the initial volley?

Let me help you: Behemoth. Although his initiate is vastly more powerful than Hellbringer's.

Can you name even one hero that contributes less to a team fight after the first 2 seconds, and doesn't outshine Hellbringer completely in those two first seconds? If you can't, the point is obvious: The fact that his selfheal is extremely potent is irrelevant when he won't get targeted anyhow.

You realize this all comes down to circumstance, and none of what you have said makes any sense.

Hellbringer can solo a lane and rapeface, Behemoth cannot. If you think comparing one hero to another will justify one being better than the other, you're so clueless.

[Elerion]

There are plenty of heroes (if you include the whole DotA pool) that can solo a lane and come out considerably stronger because of it. Consider how much more powerful a Thunderbringer is when he is 2 levels higher than the average opposing hero after the laning phase and with a Bloodstone 5-10 minutes earlier, relative to a Thunderbringer that has dual laned.

Hellbringer can solo lane, but he does not receive the same power boosts from the increased xp/gold as most other strong solo laners. Every item or level he gets as a result of the solo lane would be better served on almost every other hero on the team, since his scaling is so poor.

Hellbringer can survive for a long time in team battles, but it is not relevant due to his extremely front-loaded nature.

[jsat]

He is strong. OP in comp game? Maybe, only time will tell. I will tell you i want him on my team ever inhouse i see him in. His lifesteal is what needs a nerf though, it is silly how easy it is for him to lane againt any hero in the game no problem without a rune and surprise. You won't be killing him anytime soon without burst that is certain. As to the numbers, i would say closer to 20% or lower and up the mana cost, force him to put points into it if he wants to be safe so he can't get every skill effective early enough. This alone will take away alot of his issues as several people have suggested. It can still be good later, perhaps not that good, but three good spells early with a fourth at 6 and the mana to spam them? No thank you