Chronos

[Blue_Aura]

Last update - 05/2011 -
Search for "BlueAura's Premium Chronos Guide" in game and vote up for all my hard work =)!
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroesguide_view.php?gid=3495





A guide to:
http://plonq.org/up/Chrono_by_kingaby.png


- The master over time itself.


The greatest inventors of the Human Legion dreamed of making an army of machine warriors to spare humans the bloody cost of war.
Only one was ever created, for no one could ever find a way to quicken him.
When the Hellbourne fed a stolen soul into its mechanical shell, they brought the Chronos to life and gained the benefit of this artificial monster's mastery over time itself.




CONTENTS:



The Intro
Chronos information (Stats/Abilities)

Chronos' Stats

Chronos' Abilities
Timeleap
Rewind
Curse of Ages
Chronofield


Skills and Stat placement
Item Build
Starting Items
Core Items

Luxury
Item Order
Items to Avoid


Your Role
Other Heroes and Chronos
Chronos Babysitters
Nasty Lane Opponents
Direct Chronos Counters
Chronofield Combos

Laning
Farming
How to Timeleap and Chronofield
Chronos Changelog
Replays
To Do List
Guide Changelog
To Do List
1) The Intro

This guide is aimed at helping players at any level improve their game with Chronos.

Before we get started it is important that you know and fully understand that Chronos is a
Hard Carry hero and is totally item dependent - meaning that you must have extremely good farming and last hitting skills to do well with him outside of easy-mode.

Is Chronos the hero for you?

Can you last hit well?
Can you avoid your enemies whilst keeping a steady income?
Do you generally win your lane?
Can you time your entry into a battle well so you can maximize your damage?
Can you pull a solid 300g / per minute in Non Casual Mode?
Do you realize Chronos is not a tank?
Do you realize Chronos is a mid to late game hero?


If you answered yes to all of the questions, then Chronos will be a solid choice for you.



2) Chronos information (Stats/Abilities)

http://imageshack.us/m/841/3541/chronosabilitieslatest.jpg


3) Skills and Stat Placement

http://imageshack.us/m/101/9206/chronosstatslatest.jpg




4) Item build



- First I'd like to recommend you to try and always carry a homecoming stone. It's useful for many obvious reasons such as defending a tower or transport back home but a well placed jump and Teleport should get you out of harm.

The Item build for Chronos is extremely debatable currently, so I've created a chart of the common items picked up with all of the pro's and cons for you to consider.
Below the chart you will find my favourite item build and in my oppinion the most cost effective way to play Chronos.
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4272/itemcomparison.jpg


Core Items

http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/9004/coreitemsd.jpg

Luxuries

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/8857/chronosluxurys.jpg

Item Build Order

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6366/chronositemtreelatest.jpg
As the metagame has drastically changed from "Kills heroes around your farm" to "Farm around killing heroes" and is no longer a carry race. This means for Chronos to be a worth while pick in the current game he needs early game presence.

This involves a change in items and strategy.

EP - There is no debate.
EP is now 100% a core pickup for every game.

My reasons:
Like I said, Chronos needs early game presence for his team to be successful. This means looking at cheap items that have multiple uses.

* EP Gives you the life steal you need to jungle that will reduce trips back to the well (losing gold each time) and allows you access to farming the ancients relatively early. And it is vital for a Ninja on Kongor if an early Savage Mace is picked up.
* EP at level 6 allows you to be a strong threat to many heroes if you can catch them offgaurd in a 1v1 situation.
* EP will be extremely useful for almost the entire game with its 100+ Attack Speed and 20% Movement Speed allowing you to do your job - kill in your Chronofield changing the fight to 4v5.
* With the buff to EP a while back decreasing the damage from 30% to 20% I think it becomes an easy choice when one is confident with placing a Chronofield.


Why not Alchemist bones?!?!

Farming:
If you take Alchemist bones, you will have no life steal unless a whispering helm is picked up, which I am against on Chronos. This means you will be making trips back to the well pretty often (losing a lot of gpm in the process). You will lose early access to the ancients and you will lose lane presence. Honestly I think the two would balance out in most games for GPM.

PVP:
30+ Attack Speed on Alchemist Bones vs 100+ Attack Speed and 20% Movement Speed. Easy choice, 3x More attack speed, Movement speed to chase and makes you a lot more deadly in your Chronofield.


What about Runed Axe?

As I said earlier, getting early game presence is vital, so a rush for a 20 minute Runed Axe is no longer a help to the team, it is a hinderence and not to do it UNLESS you are in a trilane and you a specifically running that as your strat.

Whats with the symbol or rage at the bottem?

I think out of all the games I've played, I have only reached this twice. It is there to replace Elder Parasite and should mean you can take down any opposing carry, (Along with the rest of their team :D)

[Blue_Aura]

5) Your Role

Chronos is a "Hard Carry" meaning his primary role is to carry through the game and come out towards the end extremely powerful.


Farm:

Unlike the old days where it was your job to maximise your farm and manage killing heroes around this, now you have to farm around killing heroes. Todays metagame requires you to be ready for team fights as soon as you can manage. So this means you need a powerful lane so you are ready to join in as soon as possible.

Stay Alive:

Whilst dead you are wasting precious farming time (a possible $200 per 30 seconds dead from a creep wave or neutral camps), you will lose gold on death and you will be wasting time (and a possible $135 on a homecoming stone) to get back to your farm. So your looking at least $300 gold per death.

Don't think "Because I've just bought items I can rambo" that's not how it works. Don't risk dieing, its better to retreat then to chance the kill.


Team Fights:

In a team fight your Chronofield placement is crucial. Make sure you disable as many opposing heroes as possible, or disable the opposing teams threats.

Inside this bubble you job is to get at least 1 kill changing the fight to a 4v5. Make sure you take out their teams biggest threats, whether this be stunners or a carry.

See Chronofield Combos on which heroes to make sure you disable.


Solo Fights:

If you see a stray hero that you can kill... Do it!

However before you jump in make sure
a) You know you can kill him,
b) Check your minimap to see if your being baited,
c) That if you need to use your Chronofield that your not going to need it again before your cooldown is over. (Early game you will most likely have to use it)



6) Other Heroes and Chronos - All suggestions welcome.


Chronos Babysitters

These are the heroes I would recommend you partener with Chronos in order of best to last.

:vood: Vodoo Jester - An under-ratted babysitter. Jester and Chronos actually combo quite well, especially at level 6, its a guaranteed kill with an ulti combo.
:deme: Demented Shaman - Excellent Harasser, and will be able to keep you alive with heals. Also may be able to get you an early kill.
:plag: Plague Rider - Another great harasser and offers you great control of your lane. The only downside to plague is he comes with no heals however he is a great option.
:witc: Witch Slayer - His two disables should be able to stop almost any attempted gank on you, his manadrain will keep the opponents low making your time a lot easier.
:nymp: Nymphora - Will be able to steadily top you back up and give you return you with mana for leap if you have someone draining it in your lane.


Nasty Lane Opponents

These heroes will strongly affect your early game, whether it is from stopping your last hits or killing you. Don't forget you have the option of moving lanes if your farm is miserable.

:plag: Plague Rider - An excellent harasser with infinite mana to nuke you with. Because plague deny the creeps he not only reduces your possible gold and experience but pulls the lane toward their tower making ganks on you much easier. This would be the worst hero against you in lane.
:poll: Pollywog Priest - Pollys constant nuking and sheep/hold combined with another hero can be quite good at suppressing your farm.
:witc: Witch Slayer- with his stun, his sheep and his mana-drain to remove your jump witchslayer is a pain.
:nymp: Nymphora - Will allow any ally to keep harassing you without a problem.
:pupp: Puppet Master - An amazing harasser and last hitter. This guy will really make you struggle in a lane without constant heals.
:arma: Aramadon – When Armadon is put in a lane with a solid partner he can force you away from a lot of farm. It is crucial you pick up a manabattery if you are against him.
:legi: Legionnaire - If he is pulling creeps out of the lane before they reach the tower you will be powerless to stop him. Call your teammates in for a gank and it should be fine. You will only ever see this in lowbie games, however still is very effective if you do not get assistance from allies.
?? Double Stun/Nuke lanes - Can be a pain to deal with a sudden burst from two heroes, you just need to watch where you stand and play extremely defensive. If they suddenly turn aggressive check to see if middle lane is missing, else your dead.




Direct Chronos Counters.

:plag: Plague Rider - His armor buff will reduce Chronos' damage by a huge amount and his ultimate can tear you and your team apart if your not careful with Chronofield
:succ: Succubus - A real pain for three reasons. 1) Smitten will nerf your damage by ALOT. 2) Mezmerize will remove you from a fight for a long time. 3) Succubus's hold can be a guaranteed death.
:valk: Valkyrie - A pain for two reasons. 1) If her ultimate is used you to initate you can be targeted and removed from the fight. 2) If valk stands back she can get a clear arrow on you inside your bubble sometimes.
:pupp: Puppet Master - Annoying for two reasons. 1) Main reason being if he casts puppet show on you, you will tear apart an ally. 2) You cannot leap during his hold.
:BarbedArmor: Barbed Armor - Fairly obvious, this hurts Chronos A LOT when you attack someone with it activated.
:deme: Demented Shaman - A well used ultimate by dsham will make you hit like a fly. Just get dsham on your side instead :)!




Chronofield Combos


:magm: Magmus - Eruption: When blinked into the center of the Chronofield does insane damage.
:plag: Plague Rider - Plague Carrier: When bouncing round inside the Chronofield can do insane damage.

:fors: Forsaken Archer - Piercing Arrows: Holds the targets in place so the arrows can destroy whatever is inside.
:defi: Defiler - Unholy Expansion: Can do some crazy single target damage to a person trapped inside.
:behe: Behemoth - Shockwave: Allows a perfectly placed Shockwave, Fissure and Enrage stun combo right after the ultimate ends, increasing the stun duration.
:glac: Glacius - Glacial Downpour: If a Glacius can sit on the side of your Chronofield it can do some insane damage.
:zeph: Zepher - Typhoon: Allows a perfectly placed Typhoon do add extra dps and slows the heroes the moment the Chronofield ends.
:chip: Chipper - Sawblade Showdown: This combined with any kind of hold in place will cause devastating damage. A great combo!
:temp: Tempest - Meteor: Placed inside the Chronofield does a lot of damage, and when the field ends, allows for a perfect ultimate placement.



If any of these types of characters are on your team great! If not you MUST make sure they are dead or disabled because they can destroy you and possibly your team inside the bubble.


7) Laning

* Try and stay as close to the tower as possible. This usually involves manipulating the lane by pulling creeps or using plague riders ability to deny creeps. Doing this will discourage harassment a lot

* Don't stand around closely behind the creeps to last hit, you want to play hit and run style. Run in, last hit, go back towards your tower. Timing this takes a lot of practise but it will drop a constant stream of attacks on you to one or two.

* Defensive Wards and miss calls are dire! However do not rely on your team for this, glance at the minimap everytime your hero takes his swing for a last hit.

[Image of Defensive wards goes here - Will get it soon]

These two ward positions should keep you from any surprise gank. You should have site through from the middle lane right to the bottom to see any sneak attack from the forest.

* Its not end of the world if you lose the tower, bottom for legion or top for Hellbourne are your least important towers. Any opponents pushing around that area will leave themselves open to a nice gank. It also allows you more creeping room. But avoid it if possible of course, making sure to call in assistance if needed.

* Laning Bottom with Legion and Top with Hellbourne gives you easy neutral creep access. If there are 3 enemies in your lane, do the smart thing and stay right back and wait for assistance.

* Don't forget the walkways in the trees beneath your tower (legion) and above your tower (hellbourne), These can be invaluable when your getting ganked.

* Trilaneing can be extremely effective when used agaisnt an unsuspecting team. I would highly recommend not doing this with total randoms and to only do with this people you know who are experienced support players.

[Blue_Aura]

8) Farming

This section will adress some stratergies and shortcuts when farming.

- Runed Axe

The best tool for farming on Chronos is Runed Axe, so rushing this item used to be extremely popular, however I advise agaisnt getting it unless:
a) It is a stratergy your team is running (generally you would then be in a trilane)
b) You are versing bads and have been handed a bunch of free gold in your lane from creeps and hero kills.
c) You pick it up after your core by approximatly 25 minutes.

Now if you do decide to pick up Runed Axe advise your babysitter about 5 minutes before you complete it to start stacking all the camps for you. Also advise your team to stack the ancients as they walk past them.
This will give you a crazy boost to your GPM and generally wins games when effectively pulled off.


- No Runed Axe

I advise staying in a lane for as long as you can as early, the lane will offer more gpm and exp.

When your core is finished, you will be able to work your way around the jungle quite fast and you will have no trouble with the ancients.


- Rushing a Lane

Rushing a lane involves auto attacking the creeps (obviously waiting for that last hit on them) and rushing the lane forward, then when the opposing team come to kill you, Timeleaping + homecoming stone away to either a new lane or to the jungle.
Aside from farming stacked camps this is the best way to farm a solid gpm. (Note: This is much more effective with a Runed Axe however it is doable without). However it is dangerous and you have to be extremely careful.

It is really dangerous when you head past the river so make sure you are constatly watching the minimap so you can time your escape perfectly. Also make sure you make the most out of your Elder Parasite when doing this.

- Whats the time...?
Pay attention to the ingame time when farming, always stack a camp if you are going to be there during the next minute, or if you will come back to it very soon.

- You have an axe... USE IT!


Whether this be for juking, farming or cutting down Keeper of the Forests eyes. It has the ability to cut trees for a reason!
Every second you save whilst walking around the jungle will add to your gpm.



You can find a few excellent guides on general jungling around the forums but these are a couple of examples of important trees to be cut down when farming.
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af216/javuthescrunge/Chronos%20Guide/treecut.jpg




Ward spots - These are the places Chronos's support players sould be warding.
These are the best 2 spots to know when enemy players will be entering your jungle.


Legion Defensive Ward Spots


http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7259/legionwardsfix.jpg


Hellbourne Defensive Ward Spots


http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5559/hellbournewardsfix.jpg


Note that on the hellbourne side, enemy players can walk up the ramp on the right to enter your jungle. There will be vision of this until you lose your first middle lane tower.


9) Timeleaping And Chronofielding


Timeleaping


One of my absolute favorite abilities in the game. Timeleap allows you to travel an enormous distance, over or onto obstacles, it has a 40% slow on landing and deals a nice 175 magic aoe damage when you land. What more could you ask for?!



Below is a basic image for you so you can calculate how far your jumps will be. (Note the comparison to the neutral camp above).


http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af216/javuthescrunge/Chronos%20Guide/theupload.jpg



Below are two extremely useful examples of using Timeleap to get a terrain advantage whether that be in escaping or ganking.
On the left we see Chronos on high-ground near the bottom rune. When getting chased leaping onto here will completely remove your enemies vision of you and they will be unable to attack or target you. (Unless they use aoe moves). A great spot to jump onto and portal from if needed. On the other hand this is a great ambush point as you can just walk down the cliff and start hacking away on the unsuspecting opponent saving your Timeleap for chasing or escaping.
This is not the only useful high-ground spot so keep your eyes peeled.


On the right we see Chronos in a low-ground spot. This is no where near as useful as high-ground as you lose vision of your enemies and they can still see you. But it can be extremely useful if you are begin attacked by a melee character. You can jump inside and they wont be able to touch you. Then your free to portal.


There is no -unstuck like there is in Dota, instead you can freely walk down/up the cliff. Remember to hit (h) when you land so Chronos doesn't walk off!


http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af216/javuthescrunge/Chronos%20Guide/safespots.jpg



* When chasing or engaging make sure you leap slightly in-front of where the target would flee to, and animation cancel whilst blocking him, this can add 2 or more hits on the target.

* Don't be afraid to use this to finish a hero or get a kill steal. You're the Carry.


Chronofield
Now your Chronofield's can literally 'make or break' a fight. Make sure you take your time to find the exact moment when placing your Chronofield. Becareful when timeleaping then Chronofielding into a group of enemies, because if their reaction time is fast enough, they can disable you before you use it.




Below is, so to speak a "Perfect Chronofield" because both opponents are stuck inside the Chronofield with my ally outside.
Because pestilence is right on the edge, Accursed can help kill Pestilence. The fight then turns to 2v1.Dropping Chronofield's become A LOT more difficult in a 5v5 environment and takes patience and timing. You will almost never get the entire team so make sure you get the important people.
Spells cast from outside still work inside your Chronofield.


http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af216/javuthescrunge/Chronos%20Guide/chrono22.jpg





11) Chronos Changelog

HoN Version 1.0.9

- Damage from Curse of Ages proc from 20/40/60/80 Magic to 15/30/45/60 Physical

Version 0.3.0.2

- Manacost on Time Leap increased to 135 from 120
- Time Leap damage lowered by 25 at all levels
- Curse of Ages now steals 1/1/2/3 agility per charge, decreased from 1/2/3/4
- Curse of Ages now stuns the target after 5 attacks, increased from 4
- Targets stunned by Curse of Ages will now properly play their attack animation when the stun wears off
- Stun from Curse of Ages now scales as a .25,.5,.75,1 second stun from 1 second at all levels
- Chronofield won't freeze invulnerable targets anymore (Such as Swiftblade ulting or Defiler's ult)
- Chronofield now freezes everyone by default, with Staff of the Master lets allies move at -80% speed in the field

Elder Parasite
- Incoming damage multiplier reduced to 20%, from 30%

Version 1.66
- Time leap now also does 50,100,150,200 Magic damage on impact
- Rewind reworked
* When damaged, Chronos has a 10,15,20,25% chance to heal back the damage at a rate of up to 25% of his maximum health per second
- Time Freeze renamed to Curse of Ages
* Steals 1/2/3/4 Agility per hit, debuff lasts 10 seconds. Each debuff is individually timed
* Four consecutive hits on the same target will lock that target in time (stun) for 1 second
* While someone is stunned by Curse of Ages, Chronos can not build charges towards another stun or steal any agility
* Does not stack with Brutalizer
* No longer propagates to illusions
- Chronosphere
* Allies can now move and cast while inside, but everything they do is reduced by 90% speed (MS, AS, CS)
* With Staff of the Master, the slow is reduced from 90% to 80%

Version 0.1.50
- Attack impact time set to 0.5 seconds (from 0.6)

Version 0.1.47
- Bash damage can proc while the stun is on cooldown

Version 0.1.46
- Time Freeze cooldown reduced to 1.5

Version 0.1.42
- Fixed Chronofield not stopping Invulnerable units or Towers
- Chronofield is now boosted by Staff of the Master
- Time Freeze will now go through Magic Immunity
- Time Freeze now deals magic damage, not physical

Version 0.1.34
- Base strength increased from 17 to 23
- Removed visual cool down from Rewind. The effects on rewind will not play if the source of the damage is a DOT

12) Replays

See Replay http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=2144236 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=13799438)
By no means is this a great replay of mine, but it's the only one I've played of Chronos recently and someone asked me to upload it :).
In it I blue screen drop and get nailed pretty hard at the start, but in the end there is a Nice Annihilation showing the true power of Chronos

Welcome anyone Else's replay's demonstrating my guide in AP, credit will be given =)

13) To Do List
* Add Colour and formatting

14) Guide Changelog
14/05/2011
- Updated again after a long delay
- Updated Item build by removing chalice as it is no longer OP.
- Updated some images and comments

26/04/10
- Removed Sheildbreaker for Luxuries because of patch 3.4 change to attack modifiers.
1/03/10
- Fixed a lot around the guide, such as rewording and elaborating on item explanations and general formatting.
- Modified the general look for the guide, still will be trying to clean it up further.
- Added Chronofield Combos

31/03/10
- Guide made premium :D

28/03/10
- Updated the guide for 0.3.0.2
- Cleaned up the abilities by sticking them in a table.

25/03/10
- Another milestone reached with a lot of updates.
- Another massive item build overhaul due to mathcrafting.
- Reordered many items, updated their comments and finished a few off.

02/03/10
- Soo much has been changed, removed and added.- Stat placement has been changed.
- Ability Guide Updated
- Major item build overhaul
- Updated a few other sections.

20/12/09
- Changed item preference from Slash to Elder Parasite due to the change of Slash.
- Added Symbol of Rage as a luxury item.
- Removed Abyssal as a luxury Item.

14) Credits
Javu (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=663837)- Champion helping me fix 'the look' of the guide and fixing all my typo's. Also great tips and advice whilst helping me write it. Thanks mate.
Trysaeder (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=16451) - For answering my questions on mechanics.
Pilf (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=663837)- Some amazing mathcraft that really helped with the guide. Thanks man!
[oiz]aimlessgun (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=57564)- Always appreciate mathcraft. Thanks :)

[Javu]

i play with blue regularly

trust me,he carries hard

formatting is complete, will now save this spot if blue needs it :)

[Gredenko]

You should probably mention in your guide what you think priority targets for Chronosphere should be in a team fight.

Personally, I like to nail the stunners first and obliterate them before the fight begins, but that's just me.

You shouldn't get riftshards with charged hammer, because hammer mainly adds attack speed and riftshards is more effective with damage items, such as Savage Mace. It might be viable if you got a runed axe, but if you go straight for thunder>charged, it's not a good idea. Go for a damage item to make use of the AS, such as Shieldbreaker, and then maybe Rifts.
That's not how it works. Sure, if you get damage items, Riftshards will crit for more damage, but with an item like Charged Hammer, you'll attack faster resulting in more crits.

Think of Riftshards as an item that boots your physical DPS by x%, and you'll see why Hammer+Rift is used sometimes over Mace+Rift.

[Blue_Aura]

Highly doubt these figures are accurate, no real mathcrafting or proof here.



As i said, it was more an advice then any kind of question. I tested all item setups and charged hammer + riftshards makes most dmg! By far.

I have tested with some diffrent heroes, but mostly with Hammerstorm lv25 + behemoth heart + 5 armor(the 550gold item) in the inventory, he has more then 3000hp withthose items.
I have taken the time to kill this guy with all setups you can think about for chronos.

With Elder+ Charged hammer+ Riftshards in chronos inv, you kill him in 6,2 seconds in avarage. Tested 10 times on each item setup.
(If you wonder how much dmg that is, you'l be able to kill 3 full health squishies in one buble with that setup, and consinder the proc of charged hammer does a lot of aoe dmg, which you dont have on any of the other setups)

Your idea to go for Elder+ Savage+ Riftshards is much worse with 7,5 seconds in avarage.
Elder+ Shieldbreaker + riftshards is 7,7 seconds in avarage.
Elder+ Wingbow + Savage is 7,81 seconds in avarage.

The other setups are all at least 1 second slower then charged+rift.
Now you could say the first item after elder should be savage or runed axe for the farm and faster kills. I will tell you even this is wrong. As charged hammer is a very good farming tool, as effective as runed axe, in my opinion even better. BUT it also kills as fast as savage as a single item.
So the timing for only elder + savage is 9,145 seconds in avarage.
The timing for elder + charged hammer is 9,2 seconds in avarage.
Elder+ runed is even worse, as you can imagine.

To summarize, charged hammer+ riftshards is the best choice if you want the pure dmg and farming utility. I will just consider a diffrent setup if i need survivability.

If you want more test results, i can post it all. Tested for like 3 hours to have supporting evidence for you guys.

The reason why you do not want charged hammer is:
Buildup: The build up from Runed Axe is MUCH better.

The Lifetube: gives you MUCH better lane presence, allowing you to shrug off harassment. You cannot do this with Thunderclaw.
The Manatube: allows you to "Blink Farm" Further increasing gold per minute and makes sure you have enough mana to TP to a tower to defend, then have at least a Timeleap/Chronofield.
Both the Damage Items are Cheaper for almost the same damage as the Hammer.


Scaling: Runed Axe scales MUCH better as the game progressers, Not only further speeding up farming but cleaving 40% of your damage inside your Chronofield is Amazing!@!@!

Item Abilities:
Cleave > Chain Lightning Proc (Aside from early game)
Charged Up - A hero auto attacking Chronos is generally a dead hero anyways.

CHANCE: The Main reason why you should not get Charged Hammer is Chance.
You can be in a fight and it can proc every hit and you will smile and go buy a lottery ticket.
OR you can be in a fight and it not proc once.

Neither are very likely but its not worth taking the 20% chance for the proc.

Thanks for the Calculations but Runed Axe beats it hands down :).

Oh and Runed Axe should be before EP if you can manage it :).


You should probably mention in your guide what you think priority targets for Chronosphere should be in a team fight.

See Chronofield Combo's.

[pilf]

Did you test this before the patch or after?

Did you switch between the attack modifiers (elder <-> shieldbraker) and how much armor had Hammerstorm?

[Lordi23]

Did you test this before the patch or after?

Did you switch between the attack modifiers (elder <-> shieldbraker) and how much armor had Hammerstorm?

I did the tests before the patch. That does not really matter as chronos has not been changed for the arguments on those items.
So if you want to compare with post patch, turn shieldbreaker on as modifier.

You can repeat all tests, you will get exactly the same resutls. Shieldbreaker is one of the worst dmg items. At least for chronos. Dont buy this one.

If you want to know Hammerstorms stats at the test:
Items: Behemoth Heart, Ringmail(5+armor)
3148hp
16,46 armor





The reason why you do not want charged hammer is:
Buildup: The build up from Runed Axe is MUCH better.

The Lifetube: gives you MUCH better lane presence, allowing you to shrug off harassment. You cannot do this with Thunderclaw.
The Manatube: allows you to "Blink Farm" Further increasing gold per minute and makes sure you have enough mana to TP to a tower to defend, then have at least a Timeleap/Chronofield.
Both the Damage Items are Cheaper for almost the same damage as the Hammer.


Scaling: Runed Axe scales MUCH better as the game progressers, Not only further speeding up farming but cleaving 40% of your damage inside your Chronofield is Amazing!@!@!

Item Abilities:
Cleave > Chain Lightning Proc (Aside from early game)
Charged Up - A hero auto attacking Chronos is generally a dead hero anyways.

CHANCE: The Main reason why you should not get Charged Hammer is Chance.
You can be in a fight and it can proc every hit and you will smile and go buy a lottery ticket.
OR you can be in a fight and it not proc once.

Neither are very likely but its not worth taking the 20% chance for the proc.

Thanks for the Calculations but Runed Axe beats it hands down :).

Oh and Runed Axe should be before EP if you can manage it :).



See Chronofield Combo's.



Okay i totally disagree to your second sentence "The build up from Runed Axe is MUCH better".

The arguments are all right, if you consider a noob to play chronos. If you play bad you will have a hard time staying in the lane. On noob games, lets say 1600 or below, you wont have big problems with good enemys in the lane. If you still have problems, you will do good with lifetube. Agreed.

But if your skill grows with chronos as well as your hon overall skill, you wont need a lifetube in the lane oO. I tell you i dont.
When i play chronos today, i have no problems to stay in the lane, trust me about that point.
I play 1700+ pubs(my psr is 1792 atm) with chronos without heaving big trouble to farm, and yes i get a "killer" faster then with runed axe.

The problem is, you WILL need mana. My solution is nothing for noobs. I go for elder, mana battery for litle more mana, and the most important part are steamboots which i turn on "int" if the mana is low. Yes you get more mana regen, and yes you get an instant mana boost.
The hp problem is solved with elder, i just farm the forest to regen, its as easy as that. At least for me.

Now to your "scaling" point:
I have no idea where you got that from, as i tested it all, i tell you again... you are totally wrong.

If i play a match, and i know it will never reach the 40-50minutes mark, i might go for runed axe because its a litle easier to farm and the mana and hp regen will help you early on.
Usually i dont think it will be like that, i better count on my team and farm myself up, even when i get not much farm for 30minutes, i will be full equipped 10 minutes later if my team just gives me a litle time.

So i prefer to not go for runed, as i know it does scale much much worse then charged hammer.
I really think you never tried it. Otherwise you wouldnt talk like that. In my ears it just sounds funny, sorry about that, but i have no idea where you get that from.
As mantioned in my last post i farm Riftshards after the hammer, and riftshards is farmed in just a few minites, lets say 5 minutes for Lv4 rift.
After that, you do the most single target dmg in this game(for the value).
Reasons:
Your attack speed is just incredible. You proc the lightning oftn enough in every infight to take away half hp of 1 or 2 nearby squishie enemys.
Your "lottery" theority is just a theority. A wrong one. If you try it in the practice with charged hammer + elder on, you will realise the dmg output.
Also your opinion about the 40% aoe dmg with runed axe:
Well if you play some serious games without noobs in a match, you will not really have the chance to do any aoe dmg. Maybe you have the luck once in a match. Most of the time you will hit just one enemy because the aoe range is too low. With charged hammer you almost always hit one or even more additional enemys.

Further on, if you finish riftshards after charged you will feel the enemys melting in your hands. I never got that feeling with the other item setups.

As i said, i did the practical tests, a lot of them. I know the speed boost from charged hammer is more affective for the riftshards crit dmg then a pure dmg item like savage to raise the max critdmg. Not to mention the lower dmg on runed axe. So i dont really understand where you get your better scaling for that item from, so please some further explain.

And now at a last part of this, i want to point out a fact to avoid any confliction:
We are talking about the perfect setup for a hero that does a lot of dmg with all high dmg items in the game, as they are pretty much balanced.
So we are just talking about the litle more dmg you get from another setup. In numbers, keep the 6 seconds killtime compared to 7-8 seconds killtime in your mind. I guess the most players will not really mind and will just take their favorit setup. It will all do well.

[Blue_Aura]

"
I really think you never tried it. Otherwise you wouldnt talk like that. In my ears it just sounds funny, sorry about that, but i have no idea where you get that from.
"

Actually when I First starting playing Chronos and first started this guide Charged Hammer was my core.

But as I started to play harder matches the main things I realised were

*Lifetube is a must, without a lifetube my lane farm is crippled by a decent harasser, and the lower my health the more likely a gank is going to come.
*Manabattery is not the soloution to your problems as it removes blink farming
*Charged Hammer was too expensive as a first item to farm with and did not provide sufficient stats.
*The inconsistency on the proc further slows down farm and can cause you to miss last hits. My gold per minute with the change to RA went up an average of 75. (3750g in the average game)
*I always needed mana for when I was escaping, teleporting round the map for more farm or helping my allies.
*The aoe damage is much better on Runed axe and Runed axe does scale much better.

Charged Hammers Aoe Damage Average Per Hit

- Charged Hammer= 250 x (1/5) = 50 - Magic Armor.
(Chain Lighting x Chance to Proc - Magic Armor)

- Runed Axe = 61+65 x (4/10) = 50.4 - Armor
(Base avg of level 1 + Runed Axe Damage x % Cleave )
___
As you can see from level 1 with no items RA's Cleave is already doing more AOE avg Damage. And its only going to go up.

You cannot permabash anymore so you don't need the outrageous attack speed that Charged Hammer and EP produce which is why I used to get it.

[Lordi23]

Actually when I First starting playing Chronos and first started this guide Charged Hammer was my core.

But as I started to play harder matches the main things I realised were

*Lifetube is a must, without a lifetube my lane farm is crippled by a decent harasser, and the lower my health the more likely a gank is going to come.
*Manabattery is not the soloution to your problems as it removes blink farming
*Charged Hammer was too expensive as a first item to farm with and did not provide sufficient stats.
*The inconsistency on the proc further slows down farm and can cause you to miss last hits. My gold per minute with the change to RA went up an average of 75. (3750g in the average game)
*I always needed mana for when I was escaping, teleporting round the map for more farm or helping my allies.
*The aoe damage is much better on Runed axe and Runed axe does scale much better.

Charged Hammers Aoe Damage Average Per Hit

- Charged Hammer= 250 x (1/5) = 50 - Magic Armor.
(Chain Lighting x Chance to Proc - Magic Armor)

- Runed Axe = 61+65 x (4/10) = 50.4 - Armor
(Base avg of level 1 + Runed Axe Damage x % Cleave )
___
As you can see from level 1 with no items RA's Cleave is already doing more AOE avg Damage. And its only going to go up.

You cannot permabash anymore so you don't need the outrageous attack speed that Charged Hammer and EP produce which is why I used to get it.

Well as i said, if you need the lifetube to survive in a lane, then you will always go for runed. I dont need it, i wont be harassed out of the lane, i just play too good, you wont harass me out.

And again you just throw in "Runed Axe scales better" wihtout any evidence. Its just wrong, i explained why already.

Your comment for the farm makes me think you actually never used chaged hammer, as you claimed. I can just stay around and kill a lane in 3 seocnds without giving them a hit. You just need to charge yourself.
Even if you dont do that, you go to the lane and kill them all ?! how can you miss to lasthit ? Impossible...just dont let creeps reach them first.

In the forest i dont need blink, i just walk and cut a tree so i reach creeps faster. The farming speed makes no diffrence. Also i stack them, especially acient creeps.

I dont see any sense in those maths, my practical tests and experience showed me hammer is way better choice for me.
So at this point we should stop to discuss. I gave you my point of view. No need for further discuss.

Just wanted to say skilled ppl should give it a try.

HF

[Blue_Aura]

Shieldbreaker is one of the worst dmg items.

I also forgot to point this out, sheildbreaker is one of the best dmg:gold items in the game. Sorry your wrong.



I dont need it, i wont be harassed out of the lane, i just play too good, you wont harass me out.

Who are you playing against?



And again you just throw in "Runed Axe scales better" wihtout any evidence. Its just wrong, i explained why already.

I Did Via Math, The % Damage from your cleave scales, unlike the chainlightning proc.




Your comment for the farm makes me think you actually never used chaged hammer, as you claimed. I can just stay around and kill a lane in 3 seocnds without giving them a hit. You just need to charge yourself.

Blowing more mana, and dont forget there is a cooldown



In the forest i dont need blink, i just walk and cut a tree so i reach creeps faster. The farming speed makes no diffrence. Also i stack them, especially acient creeps.

Your just slowing down your farm then,
As for stacking, what are you stacking with? You shouldnt have a whispering helm...



I dont see any sense in those maths, my practical tests and experience showed me hammer is way better choice for me.

I was just proving that you were wrong, thats all :).



So at this point we should stop to discuss. I gave you my point of view. No need for further discuss.

Just wanted to say skilled ppl should give it a try.

HF

By all means give it a go if you like, but optimally Runed Axe is the better choice.

[Javu]

yeah sorry Lordi23 but you must be playing against some god awful players if you can stay in lane and not be harassed out of it as chronos. He has a leap, sure, but you have to actually stand next to creeps to kill them, and if your playing against good players the second you move towards creeps you should be taking as much damage as they can throw out

and runed axe > charged hammer if not for anything else, then for blink farming. you can walk around and cut down your trees if you want, but over the course of a 30+ minute game, the time you spend walking around the forest WILL affect your farm

back when magebane was OP and used in a lot of competitive games (before s2 added carries that could stand there and kill every creep on the map) simply because he could blink farm. If you weren't hitting a creep every second you were doing it wrong, and because of that he could out farm everyone

so simply, runed axe beats charged hammer because you can farm it faster, and once you have it, you can farm faster than with any other item in the game

which leads me to my main point, when you finally manage to get your charged hammer and riftshards, Blue_Aura will have his runed axe savage mace and probably at least one or two levels into his riftshards, and will proceed to rape your face. You can push your 'tests' as much as you want, but in reality, you won't just be given charged hammer and riftshards or runed axe and savage mace and put next to a 3000 hp hammerstorm and have to beat on him to win. In reality you have to farm and EARN those items, and you will finish Blue_Aura's build much faster, and MUCH easier, and then be able to build more items even faster

so in conclusion, sure, in your theoretical 60+ minute games where you kill every creep in the map and lane against magebane and kotf with demented shaman babysitting you then your build probably is better, but in real life Blue_Aura's build is better

and btw, i know Blue_Aura in real life and have played MANY MANY games with him, and i can assure you, he has probably played half of his games with charged hammer chronos and used to think it was far superior on him, but has since changed his mind because he realised runed axe is better. So yes, he knows how chronos works with charged hammer


EDIT: oh, and s2 is adding more ganking heroes to the game atm, in an attempt to shift the metagame from the farm fest it is to a more ganking and fun to watch metagame to increase its potential as an eSport. so have fun surviving in your lane with your charged hammer build up, AND actually getting some farm

[Blue_Aura]

Thanks Dave, Good points there :)

[Lordi23]

yeah sorry Lordi23 but you must be playing against some god awful players if you can stay in lane and not be harassed out of it as chronos. He has a leap, sure, but you have to actually stand next to creeps to kill them, and if your playing against good players the second you move towards creeps you should be taking as much damage as they can throw out

and runed axe > charged hammer if not for anything else, then for blink farming. you can walk around and cut down your trees if you want, but over the course of a 30+ minute game, the time you spend walking around the forest WILL affect your farm

back when magebane was OP and used in a lot of competitive games (before s2 added carries that could stand there and kill every creep on the map) simply because he could blink farm. If you weren't hitting a creep every second you were doing it wrong, and because of that he could out farm everyone

so simply, runed axe beats charged hammer because you can farm it faster, and once you have it, you can farm faster than with any other item in the game

which leads me to my main point, when you finally manage to get your charged hammer and riftshards, Blue_Aura will have his runed axe savage mace and probably at least one or two levels into his riftshards, and will proceed to rape your face. You can push your 'tests' as much as you want, but in reality, you won't just be given charged hammer and riftshards or runed axe and savage mace and put next to a 3000 hp hammerstorm and have to beat on him to win. In reality you have to farm and EARN those items, and you will finish Blue_Aura's build much faster, and MUCH easier, and then be able to build more items even faster

so in conclusion, sure, in your theoretical 60+ minute games where you kill every creep in the map and lane against magebane and kotf with demented shaman babysitting you then your build probably is better, but in real life Blue_Aura's build is better

and btw, i know Blue_Aura in real life and have played MANY MANY games with him, and i can assure you, he has probably played half of his games with charged hammer chronos and used to think it was far superior on him, but has since changed his mind because he realised runed axe is better. So yes, he knows how chronos works with charged hammer


EDIT: oh, and s2 is adding more ganking heroes to the game atm, in an attempt to shift the metagame from the farm fest it is to a more ganking and fun to watch metagame to increase its potential as an eSport. so have fun surviving in your lane with your charged hammer build up, AND actually getting some farm


Ye thats what you think. Some people just seem to not believe there are some players out who can handle harassment oO.
It may be hard, but it is possible. The life and manatube doesnt change a lot, even if you think it is the most powerful item in the game, as it seems.
I can farm a lane good enough by hitting creeps at my tower and pulling my lane, stack and pull if needed to have them always at my tower. Even if the enemy is very hard and a hard ganker enemy in my lane, i still have the farm i need.
So even in this worst case i dont need runed axe, and guess what, i think its the other way around.

"when you finally manage to get your charged hammer and riftshards, Blue_Aura will have his runed axe savage mace and probably at least one or two levels into his riftshards, and will proceed to rape your face."

Aha, with 30 minutes free farm without any enemy on the map maybe he can ^^. That was nonsense comment, just to show how much you know about it oO.
I know i will have the same, or more farm then him with my items. And in the end, i will kill him with my setup ;) thats how it will look like. All the other blabla which will follow now is just as i say blabla. So stop it now, if you only know how to farm with runed axe, use it!

My practical tests are also the matches i play. Sure i dont play any pro games, so i can not say anything about 1900-2000 psr range or any league wars.
Im just 1792 and i play those games for some time already, without any problems. I always outfarm enemy carrys, because i know how to. If you dont know, and you need your blinkfarm because you have no idea how to farm without infinite mana(which you don have even with runed)... then go for your runed axe ^^ and be happy with it.



Edit:
Just tried your superior "blinkfarm" with chronos. You must be kidding me.. what kind of blinkfarm is that oO. You have 400-500 mana. Lets say you are farming with lvl 10 crhonos. You can blink 3 or 4 times, then your mana is gone. With runed axe you have 2.5, maybe 3 mana regen. How long do you farm then ? :D wtf, i kill 2 stacked forests in the meanwhile, you wait for your mana ...

[Javu]

seriously, you must be playing against some hella retards if you can pull the lane, considering how easy it is to put a ward in the camp. and my point still stands, you must be playing against terrible players if they don't harass you in lane. i would have to see some replays to actually believe you can handle harassment with the shitty items charged hammer gives you while actually keeping your farm up.

and no, he could farm that while being ganked constantly with his build. You should have the runed axe by 20 mins, and then your farm will increase SUBSTANTIALLY. so in the 10 mins it takes you to finish your charged hammer he will finish his savage mace. so at the 30 minute mark he will have runed axe and savage mace and you will have charged hammer. your build is looking great now hey?

and sorry, but your point about freefarming for 30 mins without any enemies on the map applies more to your build than his. Your build gives you absolutely NOTHING to add to your survivability while you farm, so you have pathetic survivability for 30 mins? seriously, if you can actually farm for 30 mins like that then the people you are playing against are pathetic

and you must be a retard. yeah, you got 4 blinks, you know how much time that will save you over the course of a game and how much it will increase your gpm?and you can't honestly tell me that when you were out of mana you actually sat there and waited for your mana to regen before continuing your farm can you?if you somehow run out of mana while blink farming then you can walk you know?and while you walk to the next camp your mana regens back enough to continue to blink farm.

and btw, you can argue against it as much as you want and say 'you can outfarm any carry and you don't need blink farm' as much as you want, but the fact remains that if you get off your high horse and accept that you are wrong you will quickly realise that you can be the best farmer in the game, but it will STILL increase your gpm

your last post was pathetic and full of moot arguments, irrelevancies and a ton of information that hinders your argument or are complete lies about blue_aura's build. most of your pro's about your build apply to blue_aura's instead

you just dug yourself into a hole, have fun digging your way out

[Lordi23]

seriously, you must be playing against some hella retards if you can pull the lane, considering how easy it is to put a ward in the camp. and my point still stands, you must be playing against terrible players if they don't harass you in lane. i would have to see some replays to actually believe you can handle harassment with the shitty items charged hammer gives you while actually keeping your farm up.

and no, he could farm that while being ganked constantly with his build. You should have the runed axe by 20 mins, and then your farm will increase SUBSTANTIALLY. so in the 10 mins it takes you to finish your charged hammer he will finish his savage mace. so at the 30 minute mark he will have runed axe and savage mace and you will have charged hammer. your build is looking great now hey?

and sorry, but your point about freefarming for 30 mins without any enemies on the map applies more to your build than his. Your build gives you absolutely NOTHING to add to your survivability while you farm, so you have pathetic survivability for 30 mins? seriously, if you can actually farm for 30 mins like that then the people you are playing against are pathetic

and you must be a retard. yeah, you got 4 blinks, you know how much time that will save you over the course of a game and how much it will increase your gpm?and you can't honestly tell me that when you were out of mana you actually sat there and waited for your mana to regen before continuing your farm can you?if you somehow run out of mana while blink farming then you can walk you know?and while you walk to the next camp your mana regens back enough to continue to blink farm.

and btw, you can argue against it as much as you want and say 'you can outfarm any carry and you don't need blink farm' as much as you want, but the fact remains that if you get off your high horse and accept that you are wrong you will quickly realise that you can be the best farmer in the game, but it will STILL increase your gpm

your last post was pathetic and full of moot arguments, irrelevancies and a ton of information that hinders your argument or are complete lies about blue_aura's build. most of your pro's about your build apply to blue_aura's instead

you just dug yourself into a hole, have fun digging your way out


Wow, you play chronos and you farm savage mace + runed axe in 30 minutes ? cmon :D
Lets stop this argue, its just beginning to get really funny.

You can only do that in 1500+ games with a bunch of super noobs as enemy.
No further comment.

[pk_thunder]

why is runed axe ur 3rd item? that's too far to matter...

(it's like getting health pots at the 20 minute mark, they help but I'd rather have a bottle...)

and shieldbreaker could be a situational item (like if u have a dsham)

[Blue_Aura]

I don't honestly know why it is sitting third down on the list. Yes it should be gotten really early.
As for shield breaker, when i had it posted in luxuries I said don't get it with heroes such as dsham, plague, tree as it will be much less effective.
Thanks for pointing that out :).

[pk_thunder]

also zeph's ult is pretty epic combo'd with chronos' chronosphere

and most heroes that have synergy with his ult can counter his too (like zeph and plague)

[Blue_Aura]

Updated that + chipper, thanks mate.

[BlueErnest]

Thanks a lot for that guide.
But really.

Now i'm becoming a better player.

Chronos will never die.


:chro:

[LedinToke]

I just wanted to thank you for making this guide. It has helped me out a lot and made the game much more enjoyable for me as a whole because it allowed me to learn quite a few items.

[Blue_Aura]

Thanks a lot for that guide.
But really.

Now i'm becoming a better player.

Chronos will never die.


:chro:


I just wanted to thank you for making this guide. It has helped me out a lot and made the game much more enjoyable for me as a whole because it allowed me to learn quite a few items.

Thanks guys :), I've spent a surprising amount of hours on this in comparison to the amount of information there. Its nice to know that it really does help out :).

[JoeSSU]

i agree... this guide is leet and makes :chro: fun.

I noticed replays started working again last night, i know that it is hit or miss lately but if you (Lordi or blue) could post more replays in the replay section that would be cool. especially mr. you cant harass me, do you have a replay (i would really like to see your skills)? i really like the core item build... and charged hammer gives you no help in the early-mid, which doesnt help out the team with you sitting on +2500g. I am noob though so any replay of your "proof" would be fantastic.

[Ryper7]

I just played a game with Javu. he got runed axe, savage mace, ep, boots and riftshards quite easily. best thing is he manged to chronosphere at the perfect time, trapping pretty much all of our opponents practically rite next to eachother when they werent expecting it. I have never seen an opposing team melt so quickly before, that runed axe was amazing.

[ObeseSheep]

I used to rly like frostburn on any agi carry simply because I like to have high movespeed. but that's just me. Now it got nerfed so much that it not worth it at all.

[Javu]

i agree... this guide is leet and makes :chro: fun.

I noticed replays started working again last night, i know that it is hit or miss lately but if you (Lordi or blue) could post more replays in the replay section that would be cool. especially mr. you cant harass me, do you have a replay (i would really like to see your skills)? i really like the core item build... and charged hammer gives you no help in the early-mid, which doesnt help out the team with you sitting on +2500g. I am noob though so any replay of your "proof" would be fantastic.
ive got a replay i can post where I used Blue_Aura's build. However, the other team was foolish enough to pick 4 melees, and chrono absolutely LOVES melee heroes, because they are more likely to be in close together, meaning he will hit more of them with his chronosphere. So the other team was pretty bad. But the replay does show Blue_Aura's build and why it is effective, so you can check it out if you wish
Match ID: 44996410 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=44996410)

[Javu]

Wow, you play chronos and you farm savage mace + runed axe in 30 minutes ? cmon :D
Oh yeah, and my apologies, I meant 26:49 MY BAD

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af216/javuthescrunge/Chronos%20Guide/WIN.jpg

[Sukki]

Just tested this guide out for myself, thought it was rather damn good.
Although dude to me not being used to him i almost failed but i did get a 4/0 K/D ina 1v1 then =]
Only 4 k cus they dc'd >.<

[pk_thunder]

Just tested this guide out for myself, thought it was rather damn good.
Although dude to me not being used to him i almost failed but i did get a 4/0 K/D ina 1v1 then =]
Only 4 k cus they dc'd >.<
1v1 doesn't matter

[JeffyWho]

This guide doesnt seem to work for me or maybe its just because i suck but i never am able to get runed axe until 20-30 mins.Any help?

[pk_thunder]

This guide doesnt seem to work for me or maybe its just because i suck but i never am able to get runed axe until 20-30 mins.Any help?
it's your fault

whatever you do just rush runed axe

ks if u must

be a last hit whore and get as many last hits as possible, deny doesn't matter as long as you're making money

if u get it at 15, you'll probably win

20 is average time

25 is a stretch, imho just jungle/farm at max efficiency until you have at least 2 lvls on their main carry, if you waste time to gank anyone but their carry(s) then you'll lose

[JeffyWho]

So even if my team keeps on getting ganked i still farm instead of helping them

[Blue_Aura]

Yeh, Only help them in the lane if you have a TP + lots of mana and the opponents tower dive. You Gotta get that RA!

[Javu]

yeah 20 mins is fine. Once you get your RA just stay in bot lane pretty much and time leap between the neutral creep camps and the lane to kill creeps. It should take you 5 mins after you get RA to get both your steamboots and ep, THEN your ready to help your team. If your team doesnt need your help you can get your savage by 30 mins, but if they do you've got enough to help them out. But don't stop farming until you've got at least RA, steamboots and EP

[pk_thunder]

So even if my team keeps on getting ganked i still farm instead of helping them
yes unless if it is a for sure kill on their carry/you get the last hit on the enemy and you can go back to farming straight away

otherwise just farm

[Bmandk]

Can anyone upload a new replay? I just found out how good this hero is when he gets runed axe, steamboots and ep, but i can't get it in 20 mins, its always about 25 mins... I get lots of lasthits, but apparently not enough... So plz post new replay since retail

[Fornozo]

25minutes is fine.
Last time I had my runed axe after 25min with 2 deaths and 3 assist.
Yes I do suck now shatap.
After you get the runed axe you will most likely out farm everyone anyway so those 5minutes often don't really matter.

[pk_thunder]

25minutes is fine.
Last time I had my runed axe after 25min with 2 deaths and 3 assist.
Yes I do suck now shatap.
After you get the runed axe you will most likely out farm everyone anyway so those 5minutes often don't really matter.
well I once got a 27 min runed axe

I was 0-0-0 tho :S

my team fed basically and their puppet was like 16 when I was 10

but I did eventually got carry puppet (he had a EP vs chronos xD!!!), I could basically 4 hit him cus I had shieldbreaker + EP (before it was an orb) + riftshards + steambotos + savage mace :D

we actually did almost lose but we all know that a farmed chronos is > all

[Blue_Aura]

25minutes is fine.
Last time I had my runed axe after 25min with 2 deaths and 3 assist.
Yes I do suck now shatap.
After you get the runed axe you will most likely out farm everyone anyway so those 5minutes often don't really matter.

"Fine" isn't the word. A 25 Minute RA is really pushing it. It means your sitting around 170 gold per minute which is pretty terrible for a carry. By this time the roamers are finishing their cores so your farm will be even more miserable. Its a real race of time with Chronos, the more minutes you shave off your farm the better!


Can anyone upload a new replay? I just found out how good this hero is when he gets runed axe, steamboots and ep, but i can't get it in 20 mins, its always about 25 mins... I get lots of lasthits, but apparently not enough... So plz post new replay since retail

See Replay http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=2144236 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=13799438)
By no means is this a great replay of mine, but it's the only one I've played of Chronos recently and someone asked me to upload it :smile:.
In it I blue screen drop and get nailed pretty hard at the start, but in the end there is a Nice Annihilation showing the true power of Chronos

[Fornozo]

"Fine" isn't the word. A 25 Minute RA is really pushing it. It means your sitting around 170 gold per minute which is pretty terrible for a carry. By this time the roamers are finishing their cores so your farm will be even more miserable. Its a real race of time with Chronos, the more minutes you shave off your farm the better!

Having 2 deaths and a 25min RA I would say is fine. But then again after they got our tower I was left to free farm both the swords and my savage mace.

[Blue_Aura]

Having 2 deaths and a 25min RA I would say is fine. But then again after they got our tower I was left to free farm both the swords and my savage mace.

Sorry to be so strong against this but if your getting a Runed Axe at 25 minutes with no other items, you should not be carrying.
25 Minutes is approx half the average game, for one item...

May I suggest changing lanes if your lacking farm such as mid lane and shuffle the game up a little so you can find spots to free farm.

[GregerMoek]

I realize you probably already know this but time leap can be used to avoid things like hammerstorms Hammer Throw. A good thing to mention I'd believe, as some people turn out to bark "bloody cheater" when I do this. They honestly believe I'm having some kind of script when I manage to avoid it.

The best thing is - You can avoid Arachnas ulti with it, any spells that has a travel time in general.

Examples

:arac: Arach's ulti
:hamm: Hammerstorm Stun
:andr: Andromeda Stun
:pest: Pest ulti
:scou: Scouts ulti
:pred: Pred's jump-attack.
Some more.
Someone said Pyro's ult can be avoided this way but it's a damn quick one so I've never been able to try. Also note that this might have changed.. but it used to work when I played Chronos last time.

Note that the spells needs to be a single target travel time spell and you need to time the jump to when the missile (or in the pred case pred) is in mid air flying towards you.

Otherwise nice guide. :)

[SilverStars]

There's a really annoying thing about Runed Axe. The faster you get it, the more your team's dominating them.

I once got a 12-13 minute Runed Axe

Then they conceded at 15 minutes.


Edit:I remembered what I was originally going to say before I got sidetracked.

What do you say to skipping EP now, because Curse of the Ages is pretty bad now? I find Alch's isn't too bad as a substitute for AS and worth a bit of a Runed Axe. It's like a miniature EP+Raxe.

The main reason I say this is because I find lifesteal's really bad now as an attack modifier. I'd prefer to go something like Alch's-Shieldbreaker.

I really like Shieldbreaker. If I really had to get Elder I'd switch attack modifiers just so I could get Shieldbreaker. I really don't like Savage Mace that much even after the buff, especially as I figured out the bash damage was physical (lol).

[pk_thunder]

There's a really annoying thing about Runed Axe. The faster you get it, the more your team's dominating them.

I once got a 12-13 minute Runed Axe

Then they conceded at 15 minutes.


Edit:I remembered what I was originally going to say before I got sidetracked.

What do you say to skipping EP now, because Curse of the Ages is pretty bad now? I find Alch's isn't too bad as a substitute for AS and worth a bit of a Runed Axe. It's like a miniature EP+Raxe.

The main reason I say this is because I find lifesteal's really bad now as an attack modifier. I'd prefer to go something like Alch's-Shieldbreaker.

I really like Shieldbreaker. If I really had to get Elder I'd switch attack modifiers just so I could get Shieldbreaker. I really don't like Savage Mace that much even after the buff, especially as I figured out the bash damage was physical (lol).
the problem here is alch bones pushes chrono's much need items too far back

most people can rush this item (like :arac:) cus they solo mid and generally are ranged (cus they don't have runed axe).

it does give a nice AS but it's pricey and u don't need the extra farm item (ur not :wild:, who needs to stay in the forest until 40) cus u need to gank ASAP (even more with the pushing playstyle) so unless if ur aiming to pop out of the forest at the 1 hour mark hoping to win.

also runed axe is pretty imba for melee heroes that need farm, alch bones is if ur ranged and just need the farm (:arac: says hi again). chronos just needs that runed axe

also I'd skip EP entirely and just get a dmg item (sheildbreaker!) cus during ur ult u should focus on their carry (who must be in the chronosphere) and kill him, if u can't u can proc a 1 second stun (most likely) afterward and finish him cus u probably hit him 4-6 times during the ult.

[Blue_Aura]

What do you say to skipping EP now, because Curse of the Ages is pretty bad now? I find Alch's isn't too bad as a substitute for AS and worth a bit of a Runed Axe. It's like a miniature EP+Raxe.

The main reason I say this is because I find lifesteal's really bad now as an attack modifier. I'd prefer to go something like Alch's-Shieldbreaker.

I really like Shieldbreaker. If I really had to get Elder I'd switch attack modifiers just so I could get Shieldbreaker. I really don't like Savage Mace that much even after the buff, especially as I figured out the bash damage was physical (lol).

Personally I don't like the idea of skipping EP because
1) Its mad AS buff allows you to do you job - kill in your chronofield
2) You need the life-steal for neutralling and its handy in fights. You will not have to return to the well when combined with RA.
3) Gives you a movement speed buff to chase and navigate the map faster.

However on this note almost every competitive match I have watched where Chronos is played EP is skipped, but its just to strong an item on Chronos to be passed of.

Alchemist bones is a first rush item, Chronos's first rush item is a Runed Axe, To get that after RA is pointless.


the problem here is alch bones pushes chrono's much need items too far back

also I'd skip EP entirely and just get a dmg item (sheildbreaker!) cus during ur ult u should focus on their carry (who must be in the chronosphere) and kill him, if u can't u can proc a 1 second stun (most likely) afterward and finish him cus u probably hit him 4-6 times during the ult.'

You don't always target their carry. You take out the biggest threat.

Back when sheildbreaker combined with EP it was the best choice, now I prefer savagemace + riftshards for the annihilation

[pk_thunder]

Personally I don't like the idea of skipping EP because
1) Its mad AS buff allows you to do you job - kill in your chronofield
2) You need the life-steal for neutralling and its handy in fights. You will not have to return to the well when combined with RA.
3) Gives you a movement speed buff to chase and navigate the map faster.

However on this note almost every competitive match I have watched where Chronos is played EP is skipped, but its just to strong an item on Chronos to be passed of.

Alchemist bones is a first rush item, Chronos's first rush item is a Runed Axe, To get that after RA is pointless.

'

You don't always target their carry. You take out the biggest threat.

Back when sheildbreaker combined with EP it was the best choice, now I prefer savagemace + riftshards for the annihilation
1) +dmg items can do that too, and procing the bash inside the field won't help (u'll get stunlocked if ur focusing "the biggest threat" anyways), u should be able to finish them off with or without it, EP just allows u to do it earlier, but it's still not that good early game
2) not rly, RA along with the rewind offers nuff protection
3) u have time leap for a reason, and ever heard of TPs?

the carry is generally the biggest threat, it's the reason why he's called the carry (not like the nuker or support will be hitting 300s with auto attacks, am I right) anyways if there is a :temp: in there it won't matter cus u'll live (along with all ur squishies) if their farmed :dark: is downed

[Kak300]

ok i havent played or been on forums tht much so can anyone tell me how to change ur signature

[pk_thunder]

ok i havent played or been on forums tht much so can anyone tell me how to change ur signature
don't spam here, this is a hero guide...

[Kak300]

don't spam here, this is a hero guide...
tell me and i wont:jera:

[pk_thunder]

tell me and i wont:jera:
UserCP -> edit signature...

[Kak300]

thank u

[JeffyWho]

Anyone mind sending me a replay i still dont got this hero down and i really wanna be good with chronos :).

[SilverStars]

Personally I don't like the idea of skipping EP because
1) Its mad AS buff allows you to do you job - kill in your chronofield
2) You need the life-steal for neutralling and its handy in fights. You will not have to return to the well when combined with RA.
3) Gives you a movement speed buff to chase and navigate the map faster.

However on this note almost every competitive match I have watched where Chronos is played EP is skipped, but its just to strong an item on Chronos to be passed of.

Alchemist bones is a first rush item, Chronos's first rush item is a Runed Axe, To get that after RA is pointless.



Actually, Elder was competitively a decent item. AngryTestie and Tabako both went the Elder-Shieldbreaker build pre-lifesteal nerf, and one of them proceeeded to Wingbow-Riftshards if I'm not mistaken.

But now carries are nerfed because of the lifesteal nerf, and not many teams run Chronos/otherhardcarry strats. Even if they do run carries, you wouldn't normally get lifesteal.

Couldn't you replace Runed Axe with Alch's if you're not looking to carry as hard?

[pk_thunder]

Couldn't you replace Runed Axe with Alch's if you're not looking to carry as hard?
NO

runed axe is always core and if ur not looking to carry as hard then go play :valk: cus ur playing the wrong hero

if there's already a :dark: on ur team then ur just bad?

[SilverStars]

NO

runed axe is always core and if ur not looking to carry as hard then go play :valk: cus ur playing the wrong hero

if there's already a :dark: on ur team then ur just bad?

You can't rightly say that Runed Axe is _always_ core, while you can say that it's a great item on Chronos to improve his farm, you shouldn't get it always on him. If Runed Axe can support constant time leaping for mobility, sure why not, get a Runed Axe on him, just the same as Runed Axe on Madman. However, as I said before, competitive-level players do skip Runed Axe often.

And your post is insulting. You're calling me bad because of a teammate last-second pick? I play public games, like the majority of people here. I AM INSULTED RAWWWWWR

[F0Sh1ZZL3]

However on this note almost every competitive match I have watched where Chronos is played EP is skipped, but its just to strong an item on Chronos to be passed of.

Actually the only competetive game I can remember post-attackmodifiernerf where Chronos was picked he dominated with EP+Runed Axe+Savage mace, add inn some riftshads there or a charged hammer and we are talking retarded pewpew.

[Loki]

In regard to EP vs SB, I'd always choose EP. It won't be in your ideal item list, but it's just too convenient to skip. Chronofield doesn't shine before you can drop one target from full to zero in it. While shieldbreaker may be more damage, EP is much cheaper and has more synergy (stun). This allows chronos to be useful in teamfights earlier. Also, the movement speed is nice to run off or chase someone after blink/ult. It's also good for farming faster.

Everyone hates EP cos it sucks, but in my eyes chronos is the one exception.

[pk_thunder]

^
EP vs SB is more of a playstyle thing

EP is good if u wanna be effective early but why play :chro: if u wanna do that?

:chro: is a hard carry (arguable one of the hardest) and he should be played like one, otherwise go click on :poll: (just make sure to not buy EP xD)

(if u are gonna go EP chronos it's better to get it late and start with a whispering helm, buy a savage mace first then turn whispering into a EP)


You can't rightly say that Runed Axe is _always_ core, while you can say that it's a great item on Chronos to improve his farm, you shouldn't get it always on him. If Runed Axe can support constant time leaping for mobility, sure why not, get a Runed Axe on him, just the same as Runed Axe on Madman. However, as I said before, competitive-level players do skip Runed Axe often.

And your post is insulting. You're calling me bad because of a teammate last-second pick? I play public games, like the majority of people here. I AM INSULTED RAWWWWWR
runed axe is the only way to play :chro: unless if u wanna go the interesting sotm build/support chronos

it's not super tested but :chro: isn't a popular pick right now so ppl skipping runed axe is because they don't want the game to last 40+ min (why pick :chro: if ur not gonna carry?)

chronos is not a strong ganker, but his ult is good for a teamfight, and to better that u should use runed axe to farm carry items so u can obliterate anyone in ur ult

[Fornozo]

Sorry to be so strong against this but if your getting a Runed Axe at 25 minutes with no other items, you should not be carrying.
25 Minutes is approx half the average game, for one item...

May I suggest changing lanes if your lacking farm such as mid lane and shuffle the game up a little so you can find spots to free farm.

Yeah I tend to carry pretty bad. But practice makes perfect doesn't it ;)

[DuHawts]

I donno if some of you will flame me for this but I tried the runed axe core build and it just doesn't seem as effective as what I been doing before. This is my build, tell me why it is no good. I find I can achieve this build a LOT faster than any other.

Starting Items.

Bolstering Armband, Healing Pot

Explanation.

Bolstering Armband is only item you can't purchase in outpost that is part of my core. Plus it gives you more health.

I lane the short lane and I get all these items as soon as I have the money from the outpost in this order.

Creep Axe, Iron Buckler, Duck Boots x2, Gloves of swift, Marchers, Hungry Spirit.

I can usually get all these items before ever heading back to base by creep pulling and fighting near my tower.

I then farm neutrals until I get enough for elder and use someones courier to deliver it.

At this point I can farm endlessly and gank whenever needed. This is where I go for my Savage Mace, which I can usually get before 25min. After that I can solo kongor, Gank endlessly and build towards my riftshards.

I find this is most effective and fastest way to become useful and still be a major threat later.

[pk_thunder]

I donno if some of you will flame me for this but I tried the runed axe core build and it just doesn't seem as effective as what I been doing before. This is my build, tell me why it is no good. I find I can achieve this build a LOT faster than any other.

Starting Items.

Bolstering Armband, Healing Pot

Explanation.

Bolstering Armband is only item you can't purchase in outpost that is part of my core. Plus it gives you more health.

I lane the short lane and I get all these items as soon as I have the money from the outpost in this order.

Creep Axe, Iron Buckler, Duck Boots x2, Gloves of swift, Marchers, Hungry Spirit.

I can usually get all these items before ever heading back to base by creep pulling and fighting near my tower.

I then farm neutrals until I get enough for elder and use someones courier to deliver it.

At this point I can farm endlessly and gank whenever needed. This is where I go for my Savage Mace, which I can usually get before 25min. After that I can solo kongor, Gank endlessly and build towards my riftshards.

I find this is most effective and fastest way to become useful and still be a major threat later.
u don't need that much hp early

u need that hatchet, ur goal is to farm and if ur babysitter is not keeping u alive then ur team/he sucks

getting the dmg items later could be a huge disadvantage because it could be super hard to farm all of that

RA is the only good build, if ur not getting it ur stuck in like pre 0.1.66, if ur not doing RA then u should go play another hero, this hero isn't for u

[SilverStars]

Can you please stop talking about Runed Axe as if it's the only viable item you should ever get?

You can skip runed axe. Period. YOU CAN SKIP RUNED AXE. [5]'s tabako skipped Runed Axe, though he lost, but Testie also skipped runed axe, and he beat [LOAD] with it.

You may not even need a farming item. You may not even need an Alch's as a replacement for Runed Axe. While now you can't go Elder-Shieldbreaker I'm pretty sure you can both switch attack modifiers and go Elder-Savage Mace.

I've already given you my reasons for skipping runed axe, and how it is JUSTIFIABLE to skip runed axe. Therefore it is DEFINITELY VIABLE TO SKIP RUNED AXE.

If you said Runed Axe is core, and you usually need one, that's fine, but you can't go around telling other people that Runed Axe is the

only build
and you're even insulting people by telling them to "play other heroes" and "you're bad".

Can you please justify getting Runed Axe in each and every game no matter what?

[pk_thunder]

Can you please stop talking about Runed Axe as if it's the only viable item you should ever get?

You can skip runed axe. Period. YOU CAN SKIP RUNED AXE. [5]'s tabako skipped Runed Axe, though he lost, but Testie also skipped runed axe, and he beat [LOAD] with it.

You may not even need a farming item. You may not even need an Alch's as a replacement for Runed Axe. While now you can't go Elder-Shieldbreaker I'm pretty sure you can both switch attack modifiers and go Elder-Savage Mace.

I've already given you my reasons for skipping runed axe, and how it is JUSTIFIABLE to skip runed axe. Therefore it is DEFINITELY VIABLE TO SKIP RUNED AXE.

If you said Runed Axe is core, and you usually need one, that's fine, but you can't go around telling other people that Runed Axe is the

and you're even insulting people by telling them to "play other heroes" and "you're bad".

Can you please justify getting Runed Axe in each and every game no matter what?
Hey [LOAD]'s Chu committed suicide! Let's do it also!!!!

just cus a pro player can do it doesn't mean u can

unless if u can stay in lane and have perfect coord with ur team so they distract while u farm a lane than sure

runed axe is a "hey team let's bring this game into 40+ min" item. If ur team is push centric and has a :chro: then something is wrong here. chronos can only be in turtle strats and the most effective way for turtle strats to work is get a runed axe and farm ur ass off

(ofc there is always that support chronos with a sotm but I haven't seen/heard of that for so long)

but in a pub or even 1700+ game that might not always be the case

don't use viable, I can say a basher on a :thun: is viable because it is viable.

@ the quote, u can change that to "only good build" (it's what I meant actually), soz for the confusion

[Treatment]

In regard to EP vs SB, I'd always choose EP. It won't be in your ideal item list, but it's just too convenient to skip. Chronofield doesn't shine before you can drop one target from full to zero in it. While shieldbreaker may be more damage, EP is much cheaper and has more synergy (stun). This allows chronos to be useful in teamfights earlier. Also, the movement speed is nice to run off or chase someone after blink/ult. It's also good for farming faster.

Everyone hates EP cos it sucks, but in my eyes chronos is the one exception.

This.

[GODLY]

Geobane + Savage Mace annihilates the competition.

[pk_thunder]

anyone tried EP + savage mace + geo bane?

after trying on SB games it seems like it's not very effective (either me or just my team sucked horribly)...

[DuHawts]

u don't need that much hp early

u need that hatchet, ur goal is to farm and if ur babysitter is not keeping u alive then ur team/he sucks

getting the dmg items later could be a huge disadvantage because it could be super hard to farm all of that

RA is the only good build, if ur not getting it ur stuck in like pre 0.1.66, if ur not doing RA then u should go play another hero, this hero isn't for u

Well I don't see a single advantage of RA other than mana regen if you want to leap around farming. Elder Parasite is a farm item. Lets you attack much faster and you can spam it as it only costs 25 mana. I can kill creeps just as fast rushing elder as I can trying to farm a runed axe. If I go elder I get fast creep kills and I get a savage mace godly fast and I can kill any creep including ancients in 2 hits. On top of that I can get ganks starting early instead of waiting to farm a runed axe then an Elder Parasite. I don't see any advantage to a Runed Axe at any point in the game and I am sure if you tested it you would see I can farm creeps a lot faster and much sooner with my build than I can with a RA.

Like I said I tried Runed Axe build and it didn't work for me. I was 25 minutes into the game with no kills because I am just farming. Game is already over because my team destroyed them without me and I am absolutely useless.

I do my build and I have 2-3 kills in first 20 minutes as well as almost finishing my savage mace. I don't see how anyone can not justify this.

I guess what I am trying to say is I can get savage mace and elder parasite in the same amount of time it takes to get RA and elder parasite. and I think Savage Mace is much stronger and more useful.

[pk_thunder]

HEY ANYONE TRIED THE "PRO" SOTM CHRONOS BUILD?


Well I don't see a single advantage of RA other than mana regen if you want to leap around farming. Elder Parasite is a farm item. Lets you attack much faster and you can spam it as it only costs 25 mana. I can kill creeps just as fast rushing elder as I can trying to farm a runed axe. If I go elder I get fast creep kills and I get a savage mace godly fast and I can kill any creep including ancients in 2 hits. On top of that I can get ganks starting early instead of waiting to farm a runed axe then an Elder Parasite. I don't see any advantage to a Runed Axe at any point in the game and I am sure if you tested it you would see I can farm creeps a lot faster and much sooner with my build than I can with a RA.

Like I said I tried Runed Axe build and it didn't work for me. I was 25 minutes into the game with no kills because I am just farming. Game is already over because my team destroyed them without me and I am absolutely useless.

I do my build and I have 2-3 kills in first 20 minutes as well as almost finishing my savage mace. I don't see how anyone can not justify this.

I guess what I am trying to say is I can get savage mace and elder parasite in the same amount of time it takes to get RA and elder parasite. and I think Savage Mace is much stronger and more useful.
25 mana is tons for chronos sadly nuff

u don't understand that RA has splash dmg? u need to position urself and ur farming would be much faster (and it gives pretty nice +dmg)

didn't work for u? maybe u need to try it more and l2p with it (farming a 15-20 min RA takes some skill and team coord)

look let me explain to you this again
RA is a "let's bring this game into the 40+ mins mark" item
it has huge synergy with chronos cus that's what he's meant to do, shine at 40+ mins
it not only helps u farm early game but at 40+ mins it makes u an excellent pusher too and the slash dmg can help u take ppl out in chronosphere
I never said chronos would be effective during 20 min mark
and really, a RA + EP takes out a creep camp much faster than an EP and parts of a savage mace (savage mace comes in big parts, so theoretically it's costs even more to make) and ur job is to farm off of neuts/creeps and not heroes (unless if ur team is already dominating)

[Blue_Aura]

Geobane + Savage Mace annihilates the competition.

It used to but it no longer synergizes with Chronos's bash. Don't get geobane...

[sHoWTiMe]

I completely agree with the guide except for the fact that you get elder parasite instead of charged hammer.

Elder parasite is really bad in higher lvl games, if you accidentally forget to put a high damage nuker in your bubble or anyone with some high autoattacks, you'll get destroyed.

Charged hammer on the other hand gives you a lot of attack speed which you need after your rushed runed axe (+steamboots), gives you those insane lightning procs and the amazing buff.

I do know charged hammer is a lot more expensive, but it's much better than elder parasite IMO.

edit: I'm not saying it can't work out great, having elder parasite. But I prefer a safer way with charged hammer.

[Delfofthebla]

Oh so thiiiis is why all chronos's on my team suck ass.


EDIT: (mmm, suppose I should make a real comment. <.<)

You have good tips in the overall playstyle of chronos, but I don't like your core, and I don't like the idea of "Go farm the whole game without giving a damn for your team" strat you seem to be pushing. Runed Axe seems like such a waste, and requires you to stay farming for much longer before you can actually be useful for your team.

[Donn]

Oh so thiiiis is why all chronos's on my team suck ass.


EDIT: (mmm, suppose I should make a real comment. <.<)

You have good tips in the overall playstyle of chronos, but I don't like your core, and I don't like the idea of "Go farm the whole game without giving a damn for your team" strat you seem to be pushing. Runed Axe seems like such a waste, and requires you to stay farming for much longer before you can actually be useful for your team.

you DO know that chronos is a pretty hard carry, right? not a support that will stick around to land a decent ulti for you then die?

[pk_thunder]

I completely agree with the guide except for the fact that you get elder parasite instead of charged hammer.

Elder parasite is really bad in higher lvl games, if you accidentally forget to put a high damage nuker in your bubble or anyone with some high autoattacks, you'll get destroyed.

Charged hammer on the other hand gives you a lot of attack speed which you need after your rushed runed axe (+steamboots), gives you those insane lightning procs and the amazing buff.

I do know charged hammer is a lot more expensive, but it's much better than elder parasite IMO.

edit: I'm not saying it can't work out great, having elder parasite. But I prefer a safer way with charged hammer.
I'd rather have a wingbow than a charged hammer any day.

If I was going to want atk speed wingbow is the way to go if ur not getting EP cus it's even safer than a glass cannon charged hammer.

the lightning procs makes u cool and do dmg but it's not needed, u only need to really focus down 1 person (their carry/most dangerous) and proceed to rape the rest with ur team.

I'd say charged hammer is either gotten as luxury or EP as core (or luxury if ur tiered out and just want atk speed xD)

[chernabogg]

I've watched many competitive scrims such as LOAD vs 5 (non-runed axe) in comparison to going runed axe build and have noticed that getting runed axe leaves your team very vulnerable in the early-mid game to teams that are ahead and pushing hard. The build ive found most successful in random pub games has been iron shield-steamboots-parasite-savage mace-crit- wingbow.

[chernabogg]

It just seems like farming a runed axe forces your team to play basically 4 v 5 for about 30 minutes and against an organized team that's just too much time to allow. I find that going parasite, and winning your lane so that you have the level advantage and going parasite after steamboots is really the most helpful as you can use the parasite to farm quickly and you are more useful to your team

[pk_thunder]

^cus editing ur post is hard am I right?

this is true, but if ur in a competitive lvl game u probably wouldn't read this guide anyways cus u know how to play. In pubs all strats work and having a hard carry is in no way hurting ur team too much (as long as u carry)

[DuHawts]

I've watched many competitive scrims such as LOAD vs 5 (non-runed axe) in comparison to going runed axe build and have noticed that getting runed axe leaves your team very vulnerable in the early-mid game to teams that are ahead and pushing hard. The build ive found most successful in random pub games has been iron shield-steamboots-parasite-savage mace-crit- wingbow.


My point exactly. Plus your more useful early game if your team isn't doing good. I found the RA build is awesome in 1v1 matches though. But in a pub 5v5 your way more useful mid game with savage mace build because you can kill almost anyone on there team after you get your elder parasite. Then damage pieces for savage mace only helps. Wasting money on Sustainer doesn't help you at all to what you do best... DPS.

[pk_thunder]

My point exactly. Plus your more useful early game if your team isn't doing good. I found the RA build is awesome in 1v1 matches though. But in a pub 5v5 your way more useful mid game with savage mace build because you can kill almost anyone on there team after you get your elder parasite. Then damage pieces for savage mace only helps. Wasting money on Sustainer doesn't help you at all to what you do best... DPS.
sustainer is a waste of money?

I'm guessing ur playing with ppl that go the "all melee" start or "auto attack creeps" strat

good enemy laners will make it so that a lifetube is needed to survive in ur lane

[chernabogg]

well, i think lifetube is good but not necessary to lane if you have a decent healer/babysitter like demented during your laning phase. In the LOAD v 5 final for an invitational game angrytestie plays chronos with a plague babysitter against chu on defiler and goes Iron shield->steamboots->parasite->shieldbreaker. But then again he was mid 2 v 1 against defiler on chu so i dont know. Just talking about the build in general though, with a strong team like LOAD i dont think they would've stood a chance if 5's angrytestie decided to afk farm while his team tried to hold back defiler/magmus/pesti and the other 2 i don't remember off the top of my head.

[chernabogg]

maybe there may be 2 strats to chronos than just 1 because in the case of the Load v 5 game, the chronos early game used his ult first to combo off with plague for early dps-> plague ult kills and then later scaled into a carry hero after he got the shieldbreaker. The other strat i agree is the turtle-farm strat that has been discussed and tested here

[pk_thunder]

^u have to l2editurpost

u can't just copy everything competitive players do, they do it for a reason because they're better than everyone reading this and they know when to ult/farm/about team lineup and synergy better than you and me.

also if china jumped off a cliff (doesn't do it china!!!) would u follow?

[chernabogg]

LOL i would only do it if dodo jumped off a cliff. he is nice guy. Anyways i just tried the runed axe build and indeed it does scale pretty well. It's really slow in the beginning though and i got pretty bored. here is the replay number: 3491567

[Delfofthebla]

you DO know that chronos is a pretty hard carry, right? not a support that will stick around to land a decent ulti for you then die?

I'm not saying chronos should ignore the fact that he has little damage output early, but there are plenty of situations where he can help out the team, and get a few kills doing it (boosting his farm...).

Old chronos DID have to farm the entire game to be useful, but with the last big revamp of him; he's able to be a lot more useful mid game. He can still help with a minimal amount of items.

[SilverStars]

Hey [LOAD]'s Chu committed suicide! Let's do it also!!!!
just cus a pro player can do it doesn't mean u can



also if china jumped off a cliff (doesn't do it china!!!) would u follow?

Your point is invalid, we look at pros because they are the best HoN players, not because their life decisions are good.

And that was basically my point all along, Chronos useful midgame means you can do a bit in teamfights faster than if he got a runed axe. I'd take a shieldbreaker, 60 damage decreasing EHP by ~30% over a runed axe 65 damage and some useless regen in any teamfight.

@guide author: I find it strange that you only added Runed Axe after Chronos got revamped. Wouldn't it have been more effective on old chronos? I'd say that it's an optional item. Locking down the enemy team is just as important as farming.

And just because something's competitive level doesn't mean pub players can't do it. Portal Key Magmus, for example. It's not as if queueing portal key is that much more effective when a good player does it.

I'd put an optional strategy that skips runed axe. It's a great item, but it's certainly not core on a hero that doesn't have much AS without having to build an extra AS item.

[Blue_Aura]

well, i think lifetube is good but not necessary to lane if you have a decent healer/babysitter like demented during your laning phase. In the LOAD v 5 final for an invitational game angrytestie plays chronos with a plague babysitter against chu on defiler and goes Iron shield->steamboots->parasite->shieldbreaker.

In a 2v2 lane you will need a lifetube agaisnt any decent opponents.
shield->steamboots->parasite->shieldbreaker no longer as effective because of orbs.

Sorry got exams atm, very little time to reply, ill read over the comments soon :D

[pk_thunder]

Your point is invalid, we look at pros because they are the best HoN players, not because their life decisions are good.

And that was basically my point all along, Chronos useful midgame means you can do a bit in teamfights faster than if he got a runed axe. I'd take a shieldbreaker, 60 damage decreasing EHP by ~30% over a runed axe 65 damage and some useless regen in any teamfight.

1) going up to ppl and saying that everyone they say is invalid is pretty kewl, especially with no real backup to it (explain to me how pubs = pro games)
2) the point I'm making here is chronos needs the regen early on, it's not about the regen in a teamfight (u'd be at max hp so either ur doing it wrong or ur argument has flaws). if I was a competent ranged aggressive lane vs a chronos I'd harass the hell out of him, that lifetube gives so much needed free regen at the beginning that it's not even funny.
3) Chronos useful midgame is kewl, sure. but the thing is ur gonna have a hard time farming that SB anyways (probably 30 min item) when u could have a RA and parts of a shieldbreaker by then (about 80 dmg with splash vs 60 dmg with -6 armor).
4) you don't have the skills of a pro player so u'd probably get *random number* less CK per wave than a pro player so it drastically decreases ur farm without a RA. If somehow you can LH and D like a pro then get out of here and go kill some F8 ass or something (show KDe who's boss xD).
5) also if ur enemy was competent they'd try to gank you, and also drastically slowing ur farm (not that u're gonna die, but that u can't jungle/lane). unless if ur team has wards (with this lvl of play, sure) u'd still lose out on farm which could be gotten with an RA which adds early dmg and regen which is kewl for jungling/ganking/mana regen.

[X2RocKStaR3X]

in the items list, you states that Shield Breaker is an optional item. but not to get it because of the recent change to attack modifiers. however later on in the article you stated that

"If its good farm, I get Runed Axe first if its average or bad i get boots so I'm more helpful in my team fights.

Then I finish my core and go onto the Optional's , generally Sheildbreaker. "


why the contradicting information? should i or should i not get Shield breaker?

[Blue_Aura]

Forgot to edit that out when I updated. Thanks :D

[JoeSSU]

3924530

practiced with chronos since i havent played with him a long while. i ended up going against a pretty good nighthound who went mid. i was 19-3-9 and he was 20-X-2... we ended up winning as :accu: +:chro: is a nightmare to deal with imo.

anyways, best chronos i've played in a while.... followed this guide pretty damn close.

[pk_thunder]

3924530

practiced with chronos since i havent played with him a long while. i ended up going against a pretty good nighthound who went mid. i was 19-3-9 and he was 20-X-2... we ended up winning as :accu: +:chro: is a nightmare to deal with imo.

anyways, best chronos i've played in a while.... followed this guide pretty damn close.
"pretty good" NH with a basher huh

either he was thinking they were stomping or he's just bad

[aimlessgun]

Going to have to chip in and agree that Runed Axe should not be core.

-You don't need it to last hit at all. With Steamboots and EP you can still clear creep waves very quickly, get all the last hits, and not worry about creeps stealing kills from your splash. Neutrals still die very fast with EP.
-Chronos doesn't benefit much from the mana regen since he doesn't burn mana to farm and doesn't spam spells in teamfights. The hp regen from RA is pretty useless past the laning phase: EP will allow you to jungle indefinitely.
-The DPS on RA is trash compared to a Savage Mace which only costs 1000 more gold. Let's compare.

AGI Steamboots+EP buff = 1.818 attacks per second.
So RA adds 65 x 1.818 = 118 dps.
Savage Mace adds 88 x 1.818 (for some reason the AS doesn't work with EP up) = 160 dps. On top of that you get the proc, which is 100 damage x 35% x 1.818 = 63.6, added together SM is 223.6 DPS

Nearly double the DPS for only 25% more cost? Plus a gravy ministun.
Yeah, I know RA gives you splash. Look, at this point most people have figured spreading out when Chronos is in the game. Unless you're playing against retards you're not going to be splashing people in your ult very often.

In summary, SM gives you double the damage of RA, and RA doesn't increase your farm ability as much as people think if you don't have downs and can last hit. SM > RA. Biggest argument for RA is you can nab an early lifetube and stay in the lane. If you don't have a competent babysitter that's a strong argument, but couriering yourself some regen + Iron Buckler can generally see you through.

[pk_thunder]

doesn't spam spells in teamfights
u know that before lvl 20 his ult + leap + EP is at least half is mana right?

and u can't compare SM to RA

the splash dmg is for farming, it's not a major DPS item...

like comparing HotBL to headdress in +hp and not count in EHP...

[aimlessgun]

It takes half of his mana but what is he going to do afterwards? A couple more leaps maybe. Over the time period of a teamfight that small bit of regen is going to be pretty negligible.

I realize RA is for farming, but I'm trying to point out that you don't absolutely need it to farm effectively. I compare it to SM because that's an option for an item to build first instead of spending the 4350 gold on RA.

If you're allowed to rice for 40 minutes straight im sure the Runed Axe would end up paying for itself and then some. Not sure how often that happens. If you're needed in teamfights earlier than that, an SM is going to have a much bigger impact.

[pk_thunder]

It takes half of his mana but what is he going to do afterwards? A couple more leaps maybe. Over the time period of a teamfight that small bit of regen is going to be pretty negligible.

I realize RA is for farming, but I'm trying to point out that you don't absolutely need it to farm effectively. I compare it to SM because that's an option for an item to build first instead of spending the 4350 gold on RA.

If you're allowed to rice for 40 minutes straight im sure the Runed Axe would end up paying for itself and then some. Not sure how often that happens. If you're needed in teamfights earlier than that, an SM is going to have a much bigger impact.
1) :witc:/nullfire blade
2) u can't compare RA to SM, it's like comparing barbed armor to astrolabe to see which one heals more... RA is made to farm and u only get it if u intend to hard carry (otherwise try the unorthodox SotM build)
3) and that's why u can't compare RA to SM. RA shouldn't be gotten for DPS.

if u really think like this:

Unless you're playing against retards you're not going to be splashing people in your ult very often.
then get out, it's not a DPS item...

[LegoPirate]

a lot of problems with the items, but other then that well done.

[Lethe]

The only time I ever get runed axe on Chronos is if I'm absolutely getting raped early game and have no possible way of surviving the lane without an early lifetube.

RA gives better farming potential, but SM gives better killing potential. Comparing those two in value in your standard game, the item that give better killing potential is usually going to win. You don't need 400+ gpm to own with Chronos. 300 or so should be fine.

[FlamePhoenix]

Hey, I found a bug on your tutorial. When you talk about Staff of the master you present the items:
$1000 - 1x Mighty Blade
$1000 - 1x Quickblade
$1200 - 1x Glowstone
$1100 - 1x Staff of the Master Recipe

Which is wrong, Staff of the master requires +10 INT item and NOT +10 Agi item.
Fix it please.

[pk_thunder]

Hey, I found a bug on your tutorial. When you talk about Staff of the master you present the items:
$1000 - 1x Mighty Blade
$1000 - 1x Quickblade
$1200 - 1x Glowstone
$1100 - 1x Staff of the Master Recipe

Which is wrong, Staff of the master requires +10 INT item and NOT +10 Agi item.
Fix it please.

actually

sotm can be made with a combination of:
mighty blade
quickblade
the +10 int book
(can't be the same)

chronos doesn't need mana that much so u shouldn't get it

this is an example of an item that can be made with alternative items, other items like this are headdress (replace 2x trinkets with life tube) and steamboots (+6 str/int/agi item)

[Theburned]

nice guide, but well in noob games I would prefer to go elder parasite early then get savage mace this goes incredibly quick because of easy farming and a couple of early mid game kills from the elder's parasite and it will come great out of it later too because 100 AS wont really get bad later (maybe not as good in pro games) tried this once (not enough to base anything on) but ended up doing about nothing against a soloing magebane, getting few kills and so on because the kraken I was next to didnt do anything but try to ks as many creeps as possible (including using spells)

[pk_thunder]

because the kraken I was next to didnt do anything but try to ks as many creeps as possible (including using spells)
u had a dual melee lane...

must be a low lvled pub...

don't dual melee lane, it just that bad (well I ran an accu/dw before but it was not fun, got a few ganks but still not fun)

[Wednesday]

Just read your guide. I don't know if anyone's mentioned it yet, but you might want to consider mentioning that once you pop a Chronosphere and trap any potential threats inside of it you are free to toggle your Steamboots from Str to Agi if they arn't already. I very rarely see people toggle Steamboots, and the +damage and +aspd from switching to agility can actually mean the difference between a kill or not.

[ElementUser]

For this patch, skip Curse of Ages

:D

[pk_thunder]

For this patch, don't get Chronos.

:D
fix'd

[JeffyWho]

Could this build work on chronos?

Ironshield
Steamboots
Alchemist Bones
Thunderclaw
Shieldbreaker
Charged Hammer
Riftshards

[Blue_Aura]

Could this build work on chronos?

Ironshield
Steamboots
Alchemist Bones
Thunderclaw
Shieldbreaker
Charged Hammer
Riftshards

I just typed a big long thing saying why its not and when I grabbed my mouse I hit 'back' and lost it. So in short No, don't need to complete iron shield, don't need 2 farming items (alch bones/thunderclaw), thunderclaw/charged hammer are pretty bad, riftshards after a few luxuries.

[aimlessgun]

No, for a LOT of reasons.

No on alch bones. If you're seriously looking to rice up this many items (not likely) you'll want to rush Runed Axe.

-Frankly Thunderclaw isn't that good on Chronos IMO, though I have not done the math on it.

-Shieldbreaker takes up your attack mod, and you want Elder Parasite. EP allows you to take down their most dangerous player in your ult much sooner in the game: really once you get your first big item + EP + steamboots, you're good to gib someone in an ult. This is important because you will almost always need to be at some teamfights before you are fully farmed.

-Riftshards isn't worth the money unless you are ludicrously farmed with other damage items.

-With so much farm look into Geos. The guide is incorrect for saying to avoid it. So what if it doesn't work with Curse of Ages, it still works with Savage Mace, still gives you perfect stats, still dispells debuffs off you and confuses enemies in teamfights.

Also, I did the math, and if you have Savage Mace, Geo's is superior DPS to both Rift Shards and Wingbow (with illusions up of course).


Could this build work on chronos?

Ironshield
Steamboots
Alchemist Bones
Thunderclaw
Shieldbreaker
Charged Hammer
Riftshards

[fenrixx]

No, for a LOT of reasons.

No on alch bones. If you're seriously looking to rice up this many items (not likely) you'll want to rush Runed Axe.

-Frankly Thunderclaw isn't that good on Chronos IMO, though I have not done the math on it.

-Shieldbreaker takes up your attack mod, and you want Elder Parasite. EP allows you to take down their most dangerous player in your ult much sooner in the game: really once you get your first big item + EP + steamboots, you're good to gib someone in an ult. This is important because you will almost always need to be at some teamfights before you are fully farmed.

-Riftshards isn't worth the money unless you are ludicrously farmed with other damage items.

-With so much farm look into Geos. The guide is incorrect for saying to avoid it. So what if it doesn't work with Curse of Ages, it still works with Savage Mace, still gives you perfect stats, still dispells debuffs off you and confuses enemies in teamfights.

Also, I did the math, and if you have Savage Mace, Geo's is superior DPS to both Rift Shards and Wingbow (with illusions up of course).

You don't buy wingbow for the dps...

[aimlessgun]

His ult and rewind give him the ability to build more for DPS than survival though, which is why EP is core on him. So generally the first thing I look at is DPS.

In any case, enemy carries will often get Savage Maces, rendering Wingbow less than useful. The strength and illusions from Geos + debuff dispell are not trivial for survival either.

[kan0i]

Very nice and complete guide. good job
But imo chronos shouldn't be played with runed axe

[Verkku]

You should add SOTM as CORE after runed axe and mask, the cooldown reduction is the only reason you should even pick Chronos outside APEM games. It allows you to be of use more often.

[pk_thunder]

You should add SOTM as CORE after runed axe and mask, the cooldown reduction is the only reason you should even pick Chronos outside APEM games. It allows you to be of use more often.
IT'S THE SUPER ULTRA SECRET/UNTESTED SOTM BUILD!!!

well it's not CORE but it makes hell of a good optional/situational/luxury item to add insult to injury (extra second, allow teammates to move, and not a good item in general for chronos is pretty insulting). we'll have to wait for the next patch to see where this goes...

[Blue_Aura]

Very nice and complete guide. good job
But imo chronos shouldn't be played with runed axe

How would you increase your gpm then? Please don't reply with EP or Charged Hammer as this has been discussed and discarded.


You should add SOTM as CORE after runed axe and mask, the cooldown reduction is the only reason you should even pick Chronos outside APEM games. It allows you to be of use more often.

No way in hell, sotm is FAR FAR from his core. To date I think I have only ever needed to get sotm on Chronos twice? Purely for the fact that my TEAM needed the extra one second of disable during the fights, not for the cooldown (always have one per team fight...) nor for the removal of the frozen effect.




Also, I did the math, and if you have Savage Mace, Geo's is superior DPS to both Rift Shards and Wingbow (with illusions up of course).

First thanks for the big write up, wasn't happy when i lost my response haha. Did you include in your math that "What if the illusions are killed"? And dont forget to add the time it takes to grab them, and use them on a target, not to mention the collision with eachother etc...

[pk_thunder]

First thanks for the big write up, wasn't happy when i lost my response haha. Did you include in your math that "What if the illusions are killed"? And dont forget to add the time it takes to grab them, and use them on a target, not to mention the collision with eachother etc...
that's a bit too picky? tbh geo isn't a horrible choice on any agi carry even if their bash doesn't get transfered (even more so when u have an item such as savage mace)

and illu's won't be killed during ult (they shouldn't) and u shouldn't get geo if it's a super aoe team anyways...

[aimlessgun]

How would you increase your gpm then? Please don't reply with EP or Charged Hammer as this has been discussed and discarded.



No way in hell, sotm is FAR FAR from his core. To date I think I have only ever needed to get sotm on Chronos twice? Purely for the fact that my TEAM needed the extra one second of disable during the fights, not for the cooldown (always have one per team fight...) nor for the removal of the frozen effect.



First thanks for the big write up, wasn't happy when i lost my response haha. Did you include in your math that "What if the illusions are killed"? And dont forget to add the time it takes to grab them, and use them on a target, not to mention the collision with eachother etc...

Yeah chronosphere isn't like a Temp ult, the CD is short enough that it will be up for the next teamfight. Chronos is not a hero you run around ganking with a short CD ult like arachna.

My assumption is perfect illusion behavior. Obviously never the case but inside your ult they don't die and you probably won't have to micro them if you leaped next to your intended target beforehand. Definitely pop Geos BEFORE EP though...I've messed that one up a few times -.-

I've been trying RA first instead of SM and I've been generally happy with it. Value seems to be based on how much you'll be able to use the RA to farm, so if you can get it early or the game goes long it's friggin amazing I will admit.

[SilverStars]

Don't you think maybe you should pick up a bit more survivability other than Steamboots? Sure, Steamboots are great, but your 1.4 STR gain - lowest STR gain in the whole AGI section - isn't going to hold up with an Elder Parasite. Sure, Shrunken Head and Symbol of Rage are great too, but Shrunken Head seems a bit overkill with Chronofield and they're both items you say to get after Elder Parasite, Runed Axe, and another DPS item. What about picking up a few Bracelets or even Soulscreams for stats between your core items?

And could you give us your reasoning for Runed Axe as absolute core? I wouldn't get it on a hero without any sort of attack speed boost. Elder Parasite is good and all, but firstly I don't like the item because of it taking up an attack modifier slot, and secondly you have to spend 1900 gold on it, unlike Madman, Scout, tDL, Magebane (BAT) who all spend nothing.

In addition, if you decide to pick up a Symbol of Rage, obviously you have to drop your Elder, and you end up with pure damage and no AS items, unless you pick up a Wingbow or something. However, you won't have a Wingbow before Symbol of Rage, because if you do the AS of it is diminished, and therefore between Symbol and Wingbow you'll be doing substandard DPS.

I think this is the reason why Alchs should be an optional item on Chronos, as a replacement for both Elder and Runed Axe. It costs only 1900 gold, it gives a good +30 AS, it helps your farming immensely, and it frees up a slot for Shieldbreaker, the best cost:DPS item in the game not including Duck Boots or whatever. Savage Mace did get a small buff, but it can't match the -6 Armor from Shieldbreaker. You don't lose survivability like you would with Elder, and you won't need to spend as much money on Bracelets, only picking up one or possibly two.

[pk_thunder]

Don't you think maybe you should pick up a bit more survivability other than Steamboots? Sure, Steamboots are great, but your 1.4 STR gain - lowest STR gain in the whole AGI section - isn't going to hold up with an Elder Parasite. Sure, Shrunken Head and Symbol of Rage are great too, but Shrunken Head seems a bit overkill with Chronofield and they're both items you say to get after Elder Parasite, Runed Axe, and another DPS item. What about picking up a few Bracelets or even Soulscreams for stats between your core items?

And could you give us your reasoning for Runed Axe as absolute core? I wouldn't get it on a hero without any sort of attack speed boost. Elder Parasite is good and all, but firstly I don't like the item because of it taking up an attack modifier slot, and secondly you have to spend 1900 gold on it, unlike Madman, Scout, tDL, Magebane (BAT) who all spend nothing.

In addition, if you decide to pick up a Symbol of Rage, obviously you have to drop your Elder, and you end up with pure damage and no AS items, unless you pick up a Wingbow or something. However, you won't have a Wingbow before Symbol of Rage, because if you do the AS of it is diminished, and therefore between Symbol and Wingbow you'll be doing substandard DPS.

I think this is the reason why Alchs should be an optional item on Chronos, as a replacement for both Elder and Runed Axe. It costs only 1900 gold, it gives a good +30 AS, it helps your farming immensely, and it frees up a slot for Shieldbreaker, the best cost:DPS item in the game not including Duck Boots or whatever. Savage Mace did get a small buff, but it can't match the -6 Armor from Shieldbreaker. You don't lose survivability like you would with Elder, and you won't need to spend as much money on Bracelets, only picking up one or possibly two.
actually shieldbreaker's effectiveness ($:dmg ratio) totally depends on their armor, so it's only worthwhile to get if they're stacking armor (it's more effective to decrease armor to a positive number than a negative number, cus armor > -armor)

tbh alch isn't all that great cus it doesn't really give +dmg and that lifetube is a very nice item to get during laning. it's more situational to get alch bones (maybe if ur opponents in lane are 2 melee or they're too bad to harass...).

when was SoR...? (checks out guide after this post)

RA helps push/farm and gives nice +dmg which u can have during laning to help last hit (the time when ur like lvl 7-10 when laning is over but ur not ready to jungle yet...) and that health/mana regen is priceless early on to help ur retarded mana pool (chronos IQ = low).

tbh I don't get EP with RA cus it's like "let's gank but owait I have to farm...", gotta wait for OP to answer

u should have nuff dmg to eliminate the biggest thread on their team first, then ur basically fine (cus a 5 second cc of their whole team isn't OP or something in the 40 min mark)

[SilverStars]

actually shieldbreaker's effectiveness ($:dmg ratio) totally depends on their armor, so it's only worthwhile to get if they're stacking armor (it's more effective to decrease armor to a positive number than a negative number, cus armor > -armor)

tbh alch isn't all that great cus it doesn't really give +dmg and that lifetube is a very nice item to get during laning. it's more situational to get alch bones (maybe if ur opponents in lane are 2 melee or they're too bad to harass...).

when was SoR...? (checks out guide after this post)

RA helps push/farm and gives nice +dmg which u can have during laning to help last hit (the time when ur like lvl 7-10 when laning is over but ur not ready to jungle yet...) and that health/mana regen is priceless early on to help ur retarded mana pool (chronos IQ = low).

tbh I don't get EP with RA cus it's like "let's gank but owait I have to farm...", gotta wait for OP to answer

u should have nuff dmg to eliminate the biggest thread on their team first, then ur basically fine (cus a 5 second cc of their whole team isn't OP or something in the 40 min mark)

Lol, low iq. Well, he's a robot with a soul, he has no brain, what do you expect? Obviously Vindicator has the highest IQ, his cool hairstyle adds to his brainpower. Anyway:

Yeah, that's what I meant - putting Alch's in as an optional item.

I suppose you do have enough damage to get someone in 5 seconds, however the more damage you have the more attackspeed's worth. If you have no AS items, sure you may be hitting 300 a hit, but you still can't take down that 2000 HP Legionnaire because your attack speed is too slow, as you don't have good BAT like Magebane nor an AS buff like DLMadmanScout. I was going to put an example here using the DPS maximisation formula thing (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=136813) but I couldn't be bothered to work out base attack speeds and base damages and how they increase with levels and all that.

[ObeseSheep]

I think :Steamboots: should be finished after :Sustainer: (and before :RunedAxe:)because it helps gpm and survivability. I never like rushing expensive core items. I also think :ShrunkenHead: should be core because most desent players will spread out and make it hard for you to land your ult. You can't asume that you will get all 5 players in your ulti and if you do, that you will be able to kill them all. Also, having :ShrunkenHead: means you don't have to rely on your ulti to get kills. But all these points are more based on my opinion and shitty experience (lol =D). Very good guide (but I already knew how to play :chro: =D).

PS: You should stress that getting heroes with important team fight ablities or spells that go though :ShrunkenHead: should be always be traped in the ulti even if you don't get everyone or a lot of people. You should write 2 pages on how to place the ulti because :chro: is an initiator before a carry.

PSS: I only get :ChargedHammer: if I go for a PURE atk speed build but ONLY a pure atk speed build. :Steamboots: :RunedAxe: :ElderParasite: :ChargedHammer: :Wingbow: :DaemonicBreastplate Otherwise, :ChargedHammer: sucks.

PSSS: kthnxby

[Donn]

You should add SOTM as CORE after runed axe and mask, the cooldown reduction is the only reason you should even pick Chronos outside APEM games. It allows you to be of use more often.

don't be ridiculous, by the time you get SotM AFTER RA and EP you should be saving your ulti for teamfights, and teamfights don't happen so often that a tiny 25 sec less cooldown would help you. The increased duration of ulti is often unneeded, but i guess sometimes you might want those few extra seconds. The removal of the freezing effect on allies is worthless if you aim your ulti properly.

[Blue_Aura]

My assumption is perfect illusion behavior. Obviously never the case but inside your ult they don't die and you probably won't have to micro them if you leaped next to your intended target beforehand. Definitely pop Geos BEFORE EP though...I've messed that one up a few times -.-

I've been trying RA first instead of SM and I've been generally happy with it. Value seems to be based on how much you'll be able to use the RA to farm, so if you can get it early or the game goes long it's friggin amazing I will admit.

With Geo activated + EP activated under a bubble you are pretty much guaranteed a hero kill, assuming you aren't getting harassed/stunned outside of the bubble like any good team would do.

With RA + Savagemace activated under a bubble you are pretty much guaranteed a hero kill, assuming you aren't getting harassed/stunned outside of the bubble like any good team would do.

Outside of the bubble your chances of killing a hero in my oppinion are much higher without the geobane.
If the hero turns around and runs:
*Your illusions will be colliding with one another
*Sometimes one illusion will be hitting the target whilst preventing your real hero from hitting it.
*Does not gain the attack speed buff from elder parasite nor the movement speed buff from it either - Chronos moves quite slow in comparison to other heroes without his EP.
*Doesn't steal agi making them hit faster and increase their defence.




1)

Don't you think maybe you should pick up a bit more survivability other than Steamboots? Sure, Steamboots are great, but your 1.4 STR gain - lowest STR gain in the whole AGI section - isn't going to hold up with an Elder Parasite. Sure, Shrunken Head and Symbol of Rage are great too, but Shrunken Head seems a bit overkill with Chronofield and they're both items you say to get after Elder Parasite, Runed Axe, and another DPS item. What about picking up a few Bracelets or even Soulscreams for stats between your core items?

2)
And could you give us your reasoning for Runed Axe as absolute core? I wouldn't get it on a hero without any sort of attack speed boost. Elder Parasite is good and all, but firstly I don't like the item because of it taking up an attack modifier slot, and secondly you have to spend 1900 gold on it, unlike Madman, Scout, tDL, Magebane (BAT) who all spend nothing.

3)
In addition, if you decide to pick up a Symbol of Rage, obviously you have to drop your Elder, and you end up with pure damage and no AS items, unless you pick up a Wingbow or something. However, you won't have a Wingbow before Symbol of Rage, because if you do the AS of it is diminished, and therefore between Symbol and Wingbow you'll be doing substandard DPS.

4)
I think this is the reason why Alchs should be an optional item on Chronos, as a replacement for both Elder and Runed Axe. It costs only 1900 gold, it gives a good +30 AS, it helps your farming immensely, and it frees up a slot for Shieldbreaker, the best cost:DPS item in the game not including Duck Boots or whatever. Savage Mace did get a small buff, but it can't match the -6 Armor from Shieldbreaker. You don't lose survivability like you would with Elder, and you won't need to spend as much money on Bracelets, only picking up one or possibly two.


1)
Chronos doesnt need more HP whilst farming, nor does he need it later if you can place your ultimate correctly. Think of him as an OP Glasscannon. Anyways Chronos's hp is over 1.2k when you have completed boots and RA which is about the same as all the other non strength heroes on the map, but you have the added bonus of rewind and a huge CC.
Even with a few soulscream rings or bracelets if they all turn around and target you, your in a lot of trouble...
Anyways my point is you really don't need to put $ into survival items.

2)


Why this is now core:
- The build up:
* Lifetube: the fact that you can purchase Lifetube from the side shops in your lane is awesome. With the Lifetube, Iron Buckler and Hungry Spirit, you should pretty much be able to shrug off any harassment in your lane, and you will be able to neutral fine.
* Manatube: is also great as the next item because it should keep your mana levels high enough to escape gank and ensures you to be able to TP and assist your allies at a tower push. It also allows you the "Blink farm like magebane" to some extent, please don't blow all your mana whilst leaping, use it strategically
* Broadsword and Bastard Sword: Not the best value for money but the damage helps.

- The price: $4350 is cheaper then most of the recipe damage items and is a great price for what it does for you. The fact that it is useful throughout the entire game makes it a great pickup.

- The farm: Runed axe is amazing for farming giving a good increase to your Gold per Minute from taking down creep waves and camps extremely fast. Just make sure you get all those last hits when in a lane, the creeps are good at stealing from a Runed Axe wielder.

- Scale: It scales amazingly with your ultimate.


3) Symbol of rage is picked up as a final item after wingbow + level 25 + agi boots meaning you certainly have enough attack speed.
Don't understand this point **
However, you won't have a Wingbow before Symbol of Rage, because if you do the AS of it is diminished, and therefore between Symbol and Wingbow you'll be doing substandard DPS. .

4) "as a replacement for both Elder and Runed Axe?" Sorry but it does not in the slightest fill both their roles in Chronos's game. Elder fills your life-steal + attack speed, both for farming and fighting, and RA increases your farm + push power much more then a Alch bones, and it gives you some awesome scaling splash which can tear teams apart if you can catch them close to each other.
Also addressing the shield breaker, pilf made a chart for shieldbreaker showing its damage and scaling, you cant get sheildbreaker 'every match' especially when facing a plague/dsham/tree etc which I would think would be instantly picked to hurt Chronos's dps in team fights.



tbh I don't get EP with RA cus it's like "let's gank but owait I have to farm...", gotta wait for OP to answer

u should have nuff dmg to eliminate the biggest thread on their team first, then ur basically fine (cus a 5 second cc of their whole team isn't OP or something in the 40 min mark)

EP is extremely controversial. Personally I love it and get it in every game, others say (Honcast quote from Xander) "It is extremely situational" and others say they can do without it, its personal choice, I want it for the farm and the early kills :).


Lol, low iq. Well, he's a robot with a soul, he has no brain, what do you expect? Obviously Vindicator has the highest IQ, his cool hairstyle adds to his brainpower. Anyway:

Yeah, that's what I meant - putting Alch's in as an optional item.

I suppose you do have enough damage to get someone in 5 seconds, however the more damage you have the more attackspeed's worth. If you have no AS items, sure you may be hitting 300 a hit, but you still can't take down that 2000 HP Legionnaire because your attack speed is too slow, as you don't have good BAT like Magebane nor an AS buff like DLMadmanScout. I was going to put an example here using the DPS maximisation formula thing (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=136813) but I couldn't be bothered to work out base attack speeds and base damages and how they increase with levels and all that.

Altough Alc does give a bit of an attack speed buff, Ep takes the cake giving life steal for farm and a much bigger attack speed + Movement speed buff when it counts.


I think :Steamboots: should be finished after :Sustainer: (and before :RunedAxe:)because it helps gpm and survivability.


This will hurt your potential GPM to much, a Runed Axe in 20 mins (which is your goal) or even better 15 mins will have you set up for the rest of the game. Your leap should save you from dying



I also think :ShrunkenHead: should be core because most desent players will spread out and make it hard for you to land your ult. You can't asume that you will get all 5 players in your ulti and if you do, that you will be able to kill them all. Also, having :ShrunkenHead: means you don't have to rely on your ulti to get kills. But all these points are more based on my opinion and shitty experience (lol =D). Very good guide (but I already knew how to play :chro: =D).

PS: You should stress that getting heroes with important team fight ablities or spells that go though :ShrunkenHead: should be always be traped in the ulti even if you don't get everyone or a lot of people. You should write 2 pages on how to place the ulti because :chro: is an initiator before a carry.

:ShrunkenHead: Is in the optional section because it really is optional, you would not get it against a team that doesnt need it.
However I should possibly note I do find myself getting it in about 1/4 games. As for placing the ulti I think I'll make a vid and add it :), because nothing is more frustrating then having a Allied Chronos bubble you for the other team to kill.



PSS: I only get :ChargedHammer: if I go for a PURE atk speed build but ONLY a pure atk speed build. :Steamboots: :RunedAxe: :ElderParasite: :ChargedHammer: :Wingbow: :DaemonicBreastplate Otherwise, :ChargedHammer: sucks.


I've posted many times why I don't like Charged Hammer but if you really do, go for it :). As for daemonic breastplate, don't get it yourself, your not the tank, let someone else get it.


Well that took half an hour, hope it answers everyone's questions :).

[pk_thunder]

Lol, low iq. Well, he's a robot with a soul, he has no brain, what do you expect? Obviously Vindicator has the highest IQ, his cool hairstyle adds to his brainpower. Anyway:

Yeah, that's what I meant - putting Alch's in as an optional item.

I suppose you do have enough damage to get someone in 5 seconds, however the more damage you have the more attackspeed's worth. If you have no AS items, sure you may be hitting 300 a hit, but you still can't take down that 2000 HP Legionnaire because your attack speed is too slow, as you don't have good BAT like Magebane nor an AS buff like DLMadmanScout. I was going to put an example here using the DPS maximisation formula thing (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=136813) but I couldn't be bothered to work out base attack speeds and base damages and how they increase with levels and all that.
this is why ppl get EP on chronos

atk speed basically increase dps exponentially

tbh I really don't like eldar parasite, so I might have to try a naked warpcleft/charged hammer sometime

[ObeseSheep]

This will hurt your potential GPM to much, a Runed Axe in 20 mins (which is your goal) or even better 15 mins will have you set up for the rest of the game. Your leap should save you from dying


:ShrunkenHead: Is in the optional section because it really is optional, you would not get it against a team that doesnt need it.
However I should possibly note I do find myself getting it in about 1/4 games. As for placing the ulti I think I'll make a vid and add it :), because nothing is more frustrating then having a Allied Chronos bubble you for the other team to kill.



I've posted many times why I don't like Charged Hammer but if you really do, go for it :). As for daemonic breastplate, don't get it yourself, your not the tank, let someone else get it.


Well that took half an hour, hope it answers everyone's questions :).


I like getting :Steamboots: because it helps finishing that runed faster. I usually finish :Steamboots::RunedAxe: in about 20th min. It's arguable what's faster.

I like :ShrunkenHead: as core because most of the time the enemy team will be a GOOD mix of heroes. Also, :chro: looks HELLASICK with it on. =D

Like I said, I ONLY get it if I go PURE atk speed. But that build I mentioned is a joke build. I usually go :Steamboots: :RunedAxe: :ElderParasite: :ShrunkenHead: :Riftshards: :Wingbow:. I like how :Wingbow: is op on :chro: because it means 60% of autoatks will do 0 dmg. ROFL

[aimlessgun]

ObeseSheep, just want to point out that you'll get more damage for your money with Savage Mace than Rift Shards.

[ObeseSheep]

ObeseSheep, just want to point out that you'll get more damage for your money with Savage Mace than Rift Shards.

I don't agree with you at all. Crit is the only thing :chro: is missing in his skill build as a carry (besides magic protection). Getting lvl 4 :Riftshards: after :RunedAxe: :ElderParasite: will have you hitting 700 dmg crits. :ElderParasite: covers atk speed and :RunedAxe: :Riftshards: covers dmg. Then :Wingbow: adds to both. I only get :SavageMace: if I need to counter a hero with evasion.

[Dragnmn]

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showpost.php?p=1561068&postcount=19
Go plug in the numbers.

[pk_thunder]

I don't agree with you at all. Crit is the only thing :chro: is missing in his skill build as a carry (besides magic protection). Getting lvl 4 :Riftshards: after :RunedAxe: :ElderParasite: will have you hitting 700 dmg crits. :ElderParasite: covers atk speed and :RunedAxe: :Riftshards: covers dmg. Then :Wingbow: adds to both. I only get :SavageMace: if I need to counter a hero with evasion.
u need savage mace first, it's not worth it otherwise

[ObeseSheep]

After you finish :Steamboots: :RunedAxe: :ElderParasite: :ShrunkenHead: :Riftshards: (lvl 4) you will have over 200 dmg for sure (even if you don't get :ShrunkenHead:). As that thread said, it will be more effective by then. My point was not even based on this thread but my experience. It's very clear that :Riftshards: are superior to :SavageMace:. I only get :SavageMace: if I have to do deal with evasion.

PS: :SavageMace: is better in terms of dmg/gold ratio but farming shouldn't be a problem with :RunedAxe:.

[ObeseSheep]

CONTENTS:




1) The Intro

2) Chronos information (Stats/Abilities)

i] Chronos' Stats
ii] Chronos' Abilities

a) Timeleap
b) Rewind
c) Curse of Ages

d) Chronofield





3) Skills and Stat Placement

i] Build #1 - NonEM Survival/Farm Build



4) Step by Step Itembuild

Core Items

i] Starting Items

ii] Starting Items - With a babysitter lane partner

iii] Elder Parasite
iv] Steamboots
v] Runed Axe
Luxury/Situational Items
i] Savage Mace
ii] Riftshards
iii] Wingbow
iv] Symbol Of Rage
Optional Items
i] Shrunken Head

ii] Staff of the Master

iii] Charged Hammer

Items to Avioid
i] Frostburn

ii] Behemoths Heart
iii] Daemonic Breastplate
iv] Geometers Bane
v] Shieldbreaker



5) Your Role

6) Laning

i] Bad Lane Opponents
ii] Good Lane Allies


7) Farming

8) Timeline

9) Timeleaping And Chronofielding

Chronofield Combos



10) Chronos Changelog
11) Replays

12) To Do List
13) Guide Changelog
14) Credits
1) The Intro

2) Chronos information (Stats/Abilities)

i] Chronos' Stats
ii] Chronos' Abilities

a) Timeleap
b) Rewind
c) Curse of Ages

d) Chronofield









See the mistake? You added points 1 and 2 at the end.

[pk_thunder]

After you finish :Steamboots: :RunedAxe: :ElderParasite: :ShrunkenHead: :Riftshards: (lvl 4) you will have over 200 dmg for sure (even if you don't get :ShrunkenHead:). As that thread said, it will be more effective by then. My point was not even based on this thread but my experience. It's very clear that :Riftshards: are superior to :SavageMace:. I only get :SavageMace: if I have to do deal with evasion.

PS: :SavageMace: is better in terms of dmg/gold ratio but farming shouldn't be a problem with :RunedAxe:.
savage mace is amamzing, tbh the procs are nice and the ministun saves u from their carry tping out (sometimes they don't die, have SoR, then tp out and ur like WTF)

it's also nice to cancel some spells

it also does huge dmg for it's prices and will really help out

crits scale so the more dmg u have the better, savage mace is better for farming first cus the more dmg u have the better for crits

[aimlessgun]

Math doesn't lie. Actually I rechecked my numbers, and with your setup Rift Shards comes out barely ahead, except SM gives you the unquantifiable Truestrike.

Here is the math. I set Chronos to lvl 22.

Items: Steam, RA, EP, BKB, Wingbow

2 items switched: lvl 4 Rift Shards, Savage Mace. Tests done with EP buff up.

Rift Shards:
2 attacks / second 354 avg dmg
354 x 2 = 708 DPS
Riftshards Crit Proc: 20% 2.4x crit. So + (.2 x 354 x 1.4 x 2) = 198.24
Total: 906 DPS

Savage Mace
2.222 attacks / second 367 avg damage
367 x 2.222 = 815.47
SM Proc + (.35 x 100 x 2.222) = 77.77
Total: 893 DPS

Apologies, when I did the calc earlier I messed something up and it made Riftshards seem a lot worse.

I will say that Rift Shards kind of depends on you being superfarmed to be better than other items though, usually the game will be over once you get one big item after Runed Axe (and maybe BKB), and at that point, when you just have boots/EP/RA, Savage Mace is by far the more damage for your money.

[pk_thunder]

does that count for the ministun and true strike?

[aimlessgun]

It counts the ministun. Doesn't count the Truestrike because that's situational, and pretty obvious that SM is better if someone has wingbow.

I actually went and ran the numbers for a less farmed Chronos choosing between Rift Shards and Savage Mace as first item after Runed Axe/ Boots/ EP

Lvl 17
Base Items: Runed Axe, Steamboots, Elder Parasite, Bracer
-Rift Shards came out to 555 DPS
-Savage Mace came out to 560 DPS

So I guess my whole argument against Rift Shards is flawed! Though the ministun on Savage Mace can be VERY useful.

There is one thing I didn't take into account: Interaction with Curse of Ages. You'll stack it faster with the AS from Savage Mace. But once it's stacked Rift Shards will scale better with it. It's probably a pretty trivial difference.

Oh, and when comparing numbers to that graph: The damage is your damage BEFORE you get SM or RA.

[Blue_Aura]

It counts the ministun. Doesn't count the Truestrike because that's situational, and pretty obvious that SM is better if someone has wingbow.

I actually went and ran the numbers for a less farmed Chronos choosing between Rift Shards and Savage Mace as first item after Runed Axe/ Boots/ EP

Lvl 17
Base Items: Runed Axe, Steamboots, Elder Parasite, Bracer
-Rift Shards came out to 555 DPS
-Savage Mace came out to 560 DPS

So I guess my whole argument against Rift Shards is flawed! Though the ministun on Savage Mace can be VERY useful.

There is one thing I didn't take into account: Interaction with Curse of Ages. You'll stack it faster with the AS from Savage Mace. But once it's stacked Rift Shards will scale better with it. It's probably a pretty trivial difference.

Oh, and when comparing numbers to that graph: The damage is your damage BEFORE you get SM or RA.

Thanks for the mathcrafting, might use it in the main section of the guide later :), whilst giving your credit of course.


See the mistake? You added points 1 and 2 at the end.

Big Oops, thanks!

[Electroid]

You don't buy wingbow for the dps...

yeah i forgot you build wingbow for ONLY THE FCKING EVASION dum ass. that's no the only reason you build wingbow, and it is countered by savage mace, AND it doesn't avoid magic damage stfu plz. this item IS for dps and slight advantage over top of other hard carries, that can be countered with savage.

[LegoPirate]

It counts the ministun. Doesn't count the Truestrike because that's situational, and pretty obvious that SM is better if someone has wingbow.

I actually went and ran the numbers for a less farmed Chronos choosing between Rift Shards and Savage Mace as first item after Runed Axe/ Boots/ EP

Lvl 17
Base Items: Runed Axe, Steamboots, Elder Parasite, Bracer
-Rift Shards came out to 555 DPS
-Savage Mace came out to 560 DPS

So I guess my whole argument against Rift Shards is flawed! Though the ministun on Savage Mace can be VERY useful.

There is one thing I didn't take into account: Interaction with Curse of Ages. You'll stack it faster with the AS from Savage Mace. But once it's stacked Rift Shards will scale better with it. It's probably a pretty trivial difference.

Oh, and when comparing numbers to that graph: The damage is your damage BEFORE you get SM or RA.

best part of riftshards is the buildup.

for 2650 you get a basic +45 dmg and a OK crit, then upgrade from there. SM only becomes better once you have the entire thing, meaning the full 5400.

[ObeseSheep]

So basicaly, :SavageMace: is not worth it after core because it's only more powerfull than :Riftshards: for alittle bit. Then :Riftshards: out scales it? I'm lost in all the math (A.D.D. FTW qq i'm starting to wish i took math this year). Remember we are talking about the JUST THE DMG. I want just a yes or no because I'm starting to question my self. :Riftshards: > :SavageMace:? Yes or no?


Thanks for the mathcrafting, might use it in the main section of the guide later :), whilst giving your credit of course.



Big Oops, thanks!

Welcome.


yeah i forgot you build wingbow for ONLY THE FCKING EVASION dum ass. that's no the only reason you build wingbow, and it is countered by savage mace, AND it doesn't avoid magic damage stfu plz. this item IS for dps and slight advantage over top of other hard carries, that can be countered with savage.


:Wingbow: is a sexy item. Gives a lot of dmg and a lot of atkspeed.

[Blue_Aura]

So basicaly, :SavageMace: is not worth it after core because it's only more powerfull than :Riftshards: for alittle bit. Then :Riftshards: out scales it? I'm lost in all the math (A.D.D. FTW qq i'm starting to wish i took math this year). Remember we are talking about the JUST THE DMG. I want just a yes or no because I'm starting to question my self. :Riftshards: > :SavageMace:? Yes or no?


For just the damage, It depends on how late you leave it and your chance for the procs. If you can get it quick, save will do more, if you take till level 24~ riftshards will do more. But the difference is pretty tiny..

[aimlessgun]

Well from the two situations I calculated: Full Items at lvl 22 vs middling items at lvl 17, the difference between SM and Rift Shards was actually not very large either way.

So for pure damage Rift Shards will probably be better if you get another big item past Rift Shards and Runed Axe. But not by a huge amount. So you have to figure out how much you value the channel interrupting ministun.

I think Lego also has a good point about the easy buildup on Rift Shards.

[ObeseSheep]

Coo. Next question. :SavageMace: > :Wingbow:?

[aimlessgun]

I lost the paper that I scribbled all my results on for when I did a DPS showdown between Wingbow, SM and Geo's, but I do remember that Wingbow lost bigtime. Which is not surprising, because it gives you the evasion and not just DPS. So basically one of those things that is a judgement call, based on what is killing you in the game.

My personal opinion is that Wingbow is not worth it, its main use is living vs enemy carries, but they'll probably be getting Savage Maces! Plus it is quite costly and the buildup sucks. Rewind + Bash + Agility Steal + Ult should destroy most any enemy carry in any case.

[ObeseSheep]

Hmmm. I didn't think :Wingbow: would lose BADDLY. I guess I should change my build.
:Steamboots: :RunedAxe: :ElderParasite: :ShrunkenHead: :SavageMace: :Riftshards:

:Wingbow: - In the RARE case when you wouldn't need :ShrunkenHead:
:StaffOfTheMaster: - Optional



Luxury/Situational Items
** Please note that all luxuries from now are taken based on the game. I have put them in order of Best Choice for a general game, read in the explanations of what to take when.
Savage Mace
http://honwiki.net/w/images/7/79/Savage_Maceitem.gif

Requires
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af216/javuthescrunge/Chronos%20Guide/Halberd.gifhttp://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af216/javuthescrunge/Chronos%20Guide/Halberd.gifhttp://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af216/javuthescrunge/Chronos%20Guide/Slayer.gif

$1500 - 2x Halberd
$2400 - 1x Slayer

Stats
+80 Damage
+15 Attack Speed
True Strike

Total
$5400

If your not taking Sheildbreaker as your out of core item, because of reasons such as high armor, then this should be your choice instead.
This is also the Anti Evasion Weapon. If you have a strong opponent with evasion (eg Nighthound), this can be picked up at any-stage during your luxuries. Pick it up when you deem it appropriate.


Riftshards
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/5559/riftshard.png

Requires
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af216/javuthescrunge/Chronos%20Guide/Punch_Dagger.gifhttp://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af216/javuthescrunge/Chronos%20Guide/Broadsword.gifhttp://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af216/javuthescrunge/Chronos%20Guide/Riftshards.gif

$500- 1x Punchdagger
$1200 - 1x Broadsword
$950 - 4x Riftshards Recipe

Stats
+45/55/65/75 Damage
Critical Hit Passive
10%/13%/16%/20% Chance for 1.8/2/2.2/2.4 Crit

Total
$5300 (Level 5)

A great item to finish off with when combined with a Runed Axe, Sheildbreaker, and/or a Wingbow. You will be hitting like a train.
(Crits will be around 800 - armor)
Only get this after one out of core optional has been completed. You mainly want this item for the critical hits, so you want bigger hits first.



You should prob remove these "mentionings" of :Shieldbreaker: because you removed it from your luxuries and put into yor avoided section.

[Blue_Aura]

Haha, glad people are reading this, I hate patches ><, i comb over it looking for these but miss it :), thanks!

[CallofDuty5]

theres a jungle walkway above the hellbournes outermost top tower
under 6) Laning-> laning tips->point number 7 you mention legions, hellbourne has one to match

[Blue_Aura]

theres a jungle walkway above the hellbournes outermost top tower
under 6) Laning-> laning tips->point number 7 you mention legions, hellbourne has one to match

Thanks I thought I had that in there :).

[ObeseSheep]

Wow they buffed Chronos. Hmmm. His skill build is can vary now because his bash can be usefull to farm if you max it.

Max Leap
1 lvl rewind
Max Bash
Max ulti at every possible time

The bash is so good now. Wow. 80 dmg at lvl 4. So good.

[SilverStars]

No, I'm pretty sure the bash is just as bad as it was before, going 8/7/6/5. LEVEL REWIND. REWIND! At Max Level now, it does exactly the same thing as it did before, unless you count getting deny charged as being significant.

[ObeseSheep]

No, I'm pretty sure the bash is just as bad as it was before, going 8/7/6/5. LEVEL REWIND. REWIND! At Max Level now, it does exactly the same thing as it did before, unless you count getting deny charged as being significant.

The bash still sucks at low lvls but it helps jungling because it does dmg now. When it bashed at 4 hits it was good for lane control but the reason it's really good now is because it does dmg. Like I said, it means you have a choice. If you are facing a tough lane or a gank oriented team, lvl rewind. If you are having no problems, lvl Ages.

PS: The bash was useless? :chro:' bash was the best in the game.

[HoroChan]

What if you get shield breaker and elder parasite?

I believe the active on EP still works if its not the modifier you are using, and lifesteal wouldn't matter much if their entire team is frozen.
Plus you can still use lifesteal to jungle.

[ObeseSheep]

What if you get shield breaker and elder parasite?

I believe the active on EP still works if its not the modifier you are using, and lifesteal wouldn't matter much if their entire team is frozen.
Plus you can still use lifesteal to jungle.

I thought that would work too but switching AMs is not as good as you think. It's not as good with lifesteal but with :Shieldbreaker: :FrostwolfsSkull: (etc.) on other heroes might work. IDK. That's take testing. I don't wanna test. Q_Q. =(

[Blue_Aura]

What if you get shield breaker and elder parasite?

I believe the active on EP still works if its not the modifier you are using, and lifesteal wouldn't matter much if their entire team is frozen.
Plus you can still use lifesteal to jungle.

You still get the attackspeed buff if you have selected the shieldbreaker mod, but not the lifesteal.

Had a game with Chronos earlier today and got like 100charges on my stun, pretttttty sure it bugged, anyone else had this yet?

Will update the guide after a bit more testing and a good nights sleep :).

[ObeseSheep]

You still get the attackspeed buff if you have selected the shieldbreaker mod, but not the lifesteal.

Had a game with Chronos earlier today and got like 100charges on my stun, pretttttty sure it bugged, anyone else had this yet?

Will update the guide after a bit more testing and a good nights sleep :).

Yo what's the match ID of your sig? =D

Do you think :chro: needed the buff? I didn't. rofl

[Blue_Aura]

Yo what's the match ID of your sig? =D

Do you think :chro: needed the buff? I didn't. rofl

6143368 - Yeh they did suck pretty bad, but we we're all blind drunk haha. Dsham spent almost the entire game stacking for me, we wanted to trial this as hardcarries are really being taken out of the picture atm.

We gets me to the point of Chronos,
Yes he needed a buff because of the outrageous ganking that's going on atm,
No because he already dominates any other choice for a hard carry.

[ObeseSheep]

6143368 - Yeh they did suck pretty bad, but we we're all blind drunk haha. Dsham spent almost the entire game stacking for me, we wanted to trial this as hardcarries are really being taken out of the picture atm.

We gets me to the point of Chronos,
Yes he needed a buff because of the outrageous ganking that's going on atm,
No because he already dominates any other choice for a hard carry.




Your support was so sexy. Your warding could be better. =D

I don't think this buff will help him in the ganking meta but it will help him gank. rofl

[SilverStars]

The bash still sucks at low lvls but it helps jungling because it does dmg now. When it bashed at 4 hits it was good for lane control but the reason it's really good now is because it does dmg. Like I said, it means you have a choice. If you are facing a tough lane or a gank oriented team, lvl rewind. If you are having no problems, lvl Ages.

PS: The bash was useless? :chro:' bash was the best in the game.

I don't see how it helps, really. With Runed Axe, you're gonna easily take out any jungle camp anyway, and before that, well, 8 hits for 20 damage. Really?

It doesn't matter how gank oriented your teams are, you almost always need those Rewind levels earlygame. You see your STR gain? Yeah. 1.4. It might be acceptable to skip Rewind if you go get some Bracelets or something, but if you want to farm properly you have to not die.

Yes, there may be some strange situation with enemy channels and lack of damage towards you. But that doesn't jusify making levelling Curse an actual option. That's like saying "Well, let's just put every single damage item in the game in in Magebane guide, because they're options".

And yes, Curse was a pretty bad skill when it scaled 0.25/0.5/0.75/1 and 1/1/2/3. It was bad to the point that you might have alternated stats over it like Testie did. You're going to get 5 autoattacks off in a teamfight, by that time the teamfight's already over, just so you can steal 1 or 2 armor points and proc your 1s stun? At least pesti has a chance of bashing on his first auto, and even Rampage has a guaranteed bash on his first attack.

That's why I'd like his bash to be buffed, at the cost of Rewind and Time Leap, maybe. I'd like him to be a true anti-carry, one that can actually lock down the opposing carry in teamfights. (But that's irrelevant)

[CurtisPyke]

This guide kicks ass! I have included it into the Heroes of Newerth wiki (www.heroesofnewerth-wiki.com) and given you full credit. Amazing work ProBlue

[ObeseSheep]

I don't see how it helps, really. With Runed Axe, you're gonna easily take out any jungle camp anyway, and before that, well, 8 hits for 20 damage. Really?

It doesn't matter how gank oriented your teams are, you almost always need those Rewind levels earlygame. You see your STR gain? Yeah. 1.4. It might be acceptable to skip Rewind if you go get some Bracelets or something, but if you want to farm properly you have to not die.

Yes, there may be some strange situation with enemy channels and lack of damage towards you. But that doesn't jusify making levelling Curse an actual option. That's like saying "Well, let's just put every single damage item in the game in in Magebane guide, because they're options".

And yes, Curse was a pretty bad skill when it scaled 0.25/0.5/0.75/1 and 1/1/2/3. It was bad to the point that you might have alternated stats over it like Testie did. You're going to get 5 autoattacks off in a teamfight, by that time the teamfight's already over, just so you can steal 1 or 2 armor points and proc your 1s stun? At least pesti has a chance of bashing on his first auto, and even Rampage has a guaranteed bash on his first attack.

That's why I'd like his bash to be buffed, at the cost of Rewind and Time Leap, maybe. I'd like him to be a true anti-carry, one that can actually lock down the opposing carry in teamfights. (But that's irrelevant)

I just got owned. Changed my mind (but it doesn't need a buff). sank uuu.

[`Barrage]

I usually go - Steamboots, Elder, Savage, Wingbow, Riftshards. In that order, in EM games. For the last item, if I need abit more Lifesteal, because I have a team of squishy characters or something and I need to try to tank it abit more then a Chronos even should attempt, then I get an Abyssal (lol who would have thought).

If not, my 6th slot is usually a Charged Hammer.

In EM, with this build as Chronos my win% as Chronos is like 96%. :/

Just have to last hit everything for the dream build. :D

[ObeseSheep]

I usually go - Steamboots, Elder, Savage, Wingbow, Riftshards. In that order, in EM games. For the last item, if I need abit more Lifesteal, because I have a team of squishy characters or something and I need to try to tank it abit more then a Chronos even should attempt, then I get an Abyssal (lol who would have thought).

If not, my 6th slot is usually a Charged Hammer.

In EM, with this build as Chronos my win% as Chronos is like 96%. :/

Just have to last hit everything for the dream build. :D

Don't play EM. :blac:

:Wingbow: should be your last pick up because it's not as good as :SavageMace: :Riftshards: in terms of dps. :ChargedHammer: sucks. =D. Get :RunedAxe: you ****er. :scou:

[`Barrage]

Don't play EM. :blac:

:Wingbow: should be your last pick up because it's not as good as :SavageMace: :Riftshards: in terms of dps. :ChargedHammer: sucks. =D. Get :RunedAxe: you ****er. :scou:

I find EM more fun. I game to have fun, my idea of fun is getting insanely overpowered in 15mins in EM then running around smashing. :D

[Blue_Aura]

I don't see how it helps, really. With Runed Axe, you're gonna easily take out any jungle camp anyway, and before that, well, 8 hits for 20 damage. Really?

It doesn't matter how gank oriented your teams are, you almost always need those Rewind levels earlygame. You see your STR gain? Yeah. 1.4. It might be acceptable to skip Rewind if you go get some Bracelets or something, but if you want to farm properly you have to not die.

Yes, there may be some strange situation with enemy channels and lack of damage towards you. But that doesn't jusify making levelling Curse an actual option. That's like saying "Well, let's just put every single damage item in the game in in Magebane guide, because they're options".

And yes, Curse was a pretty bad skill when it scaled 0.25/0.5/0.75/1 and 1/1/2/3. It was bad to the point that you might have alternated stats over it like Testie did. You're going to get 5 autoattacks off in a teamfight, by that time the teamfight's already over, just so you can steal 1 or 2 armor points and proc your 1s stun? At least pesti has a chance of bashing on his first auto, and even Rampage has a guaranteed bash on his first attack.

That's why I'd like his bash to be buffed, at the cost of Rewind and Time Leap, maybe. I'd like him to be a true anti-carry, one that can actually lock down the opposing carry in teamfights. (But that's irrelevant)

^This


Thats exactly how I was finding it. It does nothing for my farming early and I'm finding it pretty much useless in a lane. So I would still max rewind before any points in COTA. Hopefully I'll see a Chronos on a honcast sometime soon and see what their thoughts on the matter is :D.




I find EM more fun. I game to have fun, my idea of fun is getting insanely overpowered in 15mins in EM then running around smashing. :D

Although many people in the HoN community dislike 'EMer' I say good on you, play to have fun :D. Anyways my item build would probably be very different in EM, this guide is to maximize Chronos farming and then Damage as soon as possible.

[ObeseSheep]

^This


Thats exactly how I was finding it. It does nothing for my farming early and I'm finding it pretty much useless in a lane. So I would still max rewind before any points in COTA. Hopefully I'll see a Chronos on a honcast sometime soon and see what their thoughts on the matter is :D.





Although many people in the HoN community dislike 'EMer' I say good on you, play to have fun :D. Anyways my item build would probably be very different in EM, this guide is to maximize Chronos farming and then Damage as soon as possible.

Agreed.


I find EM more fun. I game to have fun, my idea of fun is getting insanely overpowered in 15mins in EM then running around smashing. :D

Yeah I remember. That got boring fast. To much :scou: :chro: :swif: :zeph: :pred: VS :wild: :madm: :dark: :sand: :nigh: games. CARRY FEST WOO


LOL what happened to 10 pages of this thread lol.

[iGame]

Good guide. Well written and plenty of images. But going for runed axe is situational, you gotta ask if you really have the time to utilize it or if a EP is more useful in this game. And charged hammer is viable!

[evotech]

If you can't farm the runed before 20~ minutes, its just not worth it

[Blue_Aura]

LOL what happened to 10 pages of this thread lol.

Drasha cleaned it up for me because there was 165 irrelevant posts about my old item builds before Chronos's rework.


Good guide. Well written and plenty of images. But going for runed axe is situational, you gotta ask if you really have the time to utilize it or if a EP is more useful in this game. And charged hammer is viable!

Can you explain the situations you would not get it? (Em or stomp games don't count).
Had the discussion a few times about charged hammer... see from post 6 onwards.


If you can't farm the runed before 20~ minutes, its just not worth it

Not necessarily, yeh the target is less than 20 mins, but if your having a hard time and instead pick up boots and parts of the RA its certainly worth finishing because of its amazing scaling.

[ObeseSheep]

People think :RunedAxe: is not a dps item yet it gives 64 dmg (wtf?) and a 40% cleave in the bubble. It's not the best but it's better then :ChargedHammer:.

[`Barrage]

Yeah I remember. That got boring fast. To much :scou: :chro: :swif: :zeph: :pred: VS :wild: :madm: :dark: :sand: :nigh: games. CARRY FEST WOO


Rarely you see this now actually. It used to be more like this. But EM is slowly changing. Usually noone ever got items like Soulscream Rings, Brace's, Minor Totems, etc; in EM. Now you see more of it.

There is usually about 2-3 carries in an EM game, but because it's EM 2-3 carries ain't really bad, because then you have an OP team. The other 2 usually go gankers or tanks, whatnot, so they can get your carries farmed ASAP.

I didn't use to like EM, I played alot of non-EM before retail. Now it ain't so bad.

PS - Sand Wraith rarely gets used in EM. :P

It's still funny though to see teams like - :moon::swif::souls::mage::nigh: baha.

[ObeseSheep]

Rarely you see this now actually. It used to be more like this. But EM is slowly changing. Usually noone ever got items like Soulscream Rings, Brace's, Minor Totems, etc; in EM. Now you see more of it.

There is usually about 2-3 carries in an EM game, but because it's EM 2-3 carries ain't really bad, because then you have an OP team. The other 2 usually go gankers or tanks, whatnot, so they can get your carries farmed ASAP.

I didn't use to like EM, I played alot of non-EM before retail. Now it ain't so bad.

PS - Sand Wraith rarely gets used in EM. :P

It's still funny though to see teams like - :moon::swif::souls::mage::nigh: baha.

My biggest problem with Em is that 3 carries is an acceptible strat. That's boring. The non-Em is so fun to play and watch. All ganking. WOOO :ramp:

[Javu]

Wow havn't checked back on this guide in a long time. Finished reading all the comments and in truth RA is optional. But its only optional if things arent going your way and you need to change up your game

1. You picked chronos first in a BP and your the only carry on your team and the other team decided to trilane you or picked a strong ganking team and you simply just cant farm. If you cant farm RA is useless. In this case trying to farm up a RA isnt going to work and once you get its going to be too late and your just about to lose anyway, and the only thing its going to do is allow you to farm better, wich your already having trouble with.

In this case you got outpicked, and shouldnt have picked chronos.

2. The enemy team doesn't have a true hard carry, instead going for 1-3 squishy semi carries or no carries at all. In this case, if your team is having a hard time, or you have incredibly good coordination in 5v5 fights you could build chronos to be strong for mid game, as a straight of EP and steamboots is probably going to be enough to down there strongest semi carry and give you the advantage in mid game team fights. But in this case, you could probably have picked a better hero anyway, who has more synergy with the team mid game and doesnt have a pathetic health pool like people have been pointing out, as chronos does really shine as a hard carry

However, if they have a hard carry your single objective early-mid game is to outfarm their carry, so you can destroy them late game, and the only way your going to do that, is with an RA

You've also got to remember that once you've got the runed axe your farm is always going to be a HELL of alot better for the rest of the game. In between team fights late game it could be the difference between a few creeps waves or neutral camps, wich can be the difference between having a buy back or not

So in short, RA is the item to build on chronos if your planning on farming for at least 30 mins, at which time you will have your core + a strong DPS item like SM.
Getting EP first + boots is good if the enemy team doesnt have a hard carry so you dont have to concentrate on outfarming anyone as much, and can afford to help your team in fights mid game

And in conclusion, if your planning on going the second rout with chronos, you probably should've picked someone else anyway. So RA is situational on chronos, the only time you wouldn't pick it up on him is if you've already been outpicked/played, and this guide is highlighting the most effective way to play chronos

P.S any points about your team being helpless while your farming for 30 mins aren't too great either because you should've picked a team that can hold off (turtle) the enemy team for 30 mins while chronos farms, and if your still getting beaten, once again, you got outpicked and should not have picked chronos in the first place

[ObeseSheep]

I agree that :RunedAxe: is optional but in a different sence. If you play a more active :chro: (in the terms of ganking) then skip :RunedAxe:. if you are getting retarded farm and are planning on farming then go for :RunedAxe: first. But in every case I would finish :Steamboots: or at LEAST :Marchers: before hand. NEVER rush expensive core items.

[Blue_Aura]

I agree that :RunedAxe: is optional but in a different sence. If you play a more active :chro: (in the terms of ganking) then skip :RunedAxe:. if you are getting retarded farm and are planning on farming then go for :RunedAxe: first. But in every case I would finish :Steamboots: or at LEAST :Marchers: before hand. NEVER rush expensive core items.

:Steamboots: Isn't going to help you neutral or take down an ancient stack at around 20 mins.
:RunedAxe: is.

If you can get you RA in <20 mins then it is 100% worth rushing.

If your playing a "Ganking Chronos" you should've picked fayde instead.

[LegoPirate]

My biggest problem with Em is that 3 carries is an acceptible strat. That's boring. The non-Em is so fun to play and watch. All ganking. WOOO :ramp:

in case u didnt know, 3 carries works quite well in both dota and hon.

[Javu]

If your playing a "Ganking Chronos" you should've picked fayde instead.
Pretty much my point. If your not getting RA and playing a ganking Chronos you picked the wrong hero. Sure he can do it, but others do it better, like Fayde. Just like SW can carry, but others do it better, so pick them. This guide has RA as a core because it highlights the best way to play chronos and capitalise on his strengths

[ObeseSheep]

:Steamboots: Isn't going to help you neutral or take down an ancient stack at around 20 mins.
:RunedAxe: is.

If you can get you RA in <20 mins then it is 100% worth rushing.

If your playing a "Ganking Chronos" you should've picked fayde instead.

I thought that too, but i'm starting to think differently because of competitive games. idk.


in case u didnt know, 3 carries works quite well in both dota and hon.

I mean hard carries.


Pretty much my point. If your not getting RA and playing a ganking Chronos you picked the wrong hero. Sure he can do it, but others do it better, like Fayde. Just like SW can carry, but others do it better, so pick them. This guide has RA as a core because it highlights the best way to play chronos and capitalise on his strengths

Again check out the competive games. Are we missing something?

PS: I ment active, not ganking.

[Javu]

I was actually thinking the same thing. Ive seen chronos picked up heaps in competitive play atm and you rarely see them rush a RA.

My best answer would be that because of the current meta game, you rarely ever see a strong hard carry picked, teams normally pick up a bunch of squishy semi carry type heroes (FA, valk, etc). Because of this, chronos doesnt have another hard carry to compete with and outfarm, so he doesnt have to concentrate so much on farming and can build in a way to help his team earlier. Plus the teams that pick him up have such godlike coordination they can afford too use him earlier and still be effective with him.

Imo, the difference between the two chronos' played atm is that, the early game build chronos has above average effectiveness all throughout the game, whereas the RA chronos has very low effectiveness between 0-30 mins, and very very high effectiveness 30+ mins into the game. So the comparison between games is relatively the same, but they shine at different times with different effectiveness.

Hence, because of the meta game atm, RA chronos has a very hard time reaching that stage when he goes from useless to godlike, because of the fluid movement and ganking of teams he finds it too hard to farm. If he can't get that RA in 20 mins, for each minute after that his effectiveness later on takes a massive nosedive, to the point where its close to impossible for him to get back into the game.

Another factor is that an RA chronos play is incredibly predictable. He is going to spend the first 15-20 mins in his teams short lane then the next 10-15 mins jumping between the lane and the forest, so because teams are playing very active ganking roles its easy to gank him out and kill him. Even then, you dont necessarily have to kill him, you just have to cut off his farm, which is easy to do when you know exactly where and what he is going to be farming. Whereas the other style of chronos play is a more active unpredictable role. If your versing a chronos, you don't expect to be jumped on and chronosphered, followed up by a 4 man gank and tower push in your short lane 15 mins into the game, you expect him to be farming. So because of this unpredictability you can get the jump on your opponents which gives you a strong advantage. Like when empire picked kotf against LOAD, the unpredictability of the pick took LOAD off guard and they didn't know how to deal with it, whereas empire couldn't pick up kotf again in the third game because it would've been predictable and LOAD would've been prepared for it.

So atm, I think the fact that an early-mid game built chronos gives more fluidity and unpredictability to his team, coupled with the fact that he doesn't have to outfarm an opposing hard carry, is the main reason we are seeing this type of chronos being played in high tier games

Then again i'm a 1600 pub player so wtf would i know XD
but yeh thats my two cents

As far as pubs go, the team coordination is poor compared to high tier games, and pubs generally play in the standard static style of play. You rarely see much movement from bot and top lane, and all the ganking is left to the mid hero. Because of the lack of movement you can easily play the hard carry farming style of chronos, which, in the long run is superior to early-mid built chronos

[ObeseSheep]

I was actually thinking the same thing. Ive seen chronos picked up heaps in competitive play atm and you rarely see them rush a RA.

My best answer would be that because of the current meta game, you rarely ever see a strong hard carry picked, teams normally pick up a bunch of squishy semi carry type heroes (FA, valk, etc). Because of this, chronos doesnt have another hard carry to compete with and outfarm, so he doesnt have to concentrate so much on farming and can build in a way to help his team earlier. Plus the teams that pick him up have such godlike coordination they can afford too use him earlier and still be effective with him.

Imo, the difference between the two chronos' played atm is that, the early game build chronos has above average effectiveness all throughout the game, whereas the RA chronos has very low effectiveness between 0-30 mins, and very very high effectiveness 30+ mins into the game. So the comparison between games is relatively the same, but they shine at different times with different effectiveness.

Hence, because of the meta game atm, RA chronos has a very hard time reaching that stage when he goes from useless to godlike, because of the fluid movement and ganking of teams he finds it too hard to farm. If he can't get that RA in 20 mins, for each minute after that his effectiveness later on takes a massive nosedive, to the point where its close to impossible for him to get back into the game.

Another factor is that an RA chronos play is incredibly predictable. He is going to spend the first 15-20 mins in his teams short lane then the next 10-15 mins jumping between the lane and the forest, so because teams are playing very active ganking roles its easy to gank him out and kill him. Even then, you dont necessarily have to kill him, you just have to cut off his farm, which is easy to do when you know exactly where and what he is going to be farming. Whereas the other style of chronos play is a more active unpredictable role. If your versing a chronos, you don't expect to be jumped on and chronosphered, followed up by a 4 man gank and tower push in your short lane 15 mins into the game, you expect him to be farming. So because of this unpredictability you can get the jump on your opponents which gives you a strong advantage. Like when empire picked kotf against LOAD, the unpredictability of the pick took LOAD off guard and they didn't know how to deal with it, whereas empire couldn't pick up kotf again in the third game because it would've been predictable and LOAD would've been prepared for it.

So atm, I think the fact that an early-mid game built chronos gives more fluidity and unpredictability to his team, coupled with the fact that he doesn't have to outfarm an opposing hard carry, is the main reason we are seeing this type of chronos being played in high tier games

Then again i'm a 1600 pub player so wtf would i know XD
but yeh thats my two cents

As far as pubs go, the team coordination is poor compared to high tier games, and pubs generally play in the standard static style of play. You rarely see much movement from bot and top lane, and all the ganking is left to the mid hero. Because of the lack of movement you can easily play the hard carry farming style of chronos, which, in the long run is superior to early-mid built chronos

I agree with you.

Next question. :GeometersBane:? WTF? Why? Aren't there other and better dps choices? Again. Are we missing something that the competitive players aren't?

[Dragnmn]

I agree with you.

Next question. :GeometersBane:? WTF? Why? Aren't there other and better dps choices? Again. Are we missing something that the competitive players aren't?

Bane gives 2 illusions that deal 33% of your damage (I believe). This gives a 66% damage increase. Percentage, so it scales with other items. I'm not a fan of it as first item, but after you get your Runed Axe and maybe Savage Mace it starts to add a lot of damage.

[Javu]

I agree with you.

Next question. :GeometersBane:? WTF? Why? Aren't there other and better dps choices? Again. Are we missing something that the competitive players aren't?
haha i think like Dragnmn said, its because of the percentage of damage increase. If it is 66% later in the game nothing is going to give you that much damage. Take say an arachna doing around 250-300 damage a shot. Thats like 150-200 damage extra technically, thats a looooooooot of damage, and because of the amount of range semi carry type heroes being played atm, such as valk fa arachna, if you've got 2-3 of them on your team, they absolutely trash towers, even just the illusions alone can take down buildings quite easily without you even having to put yourself in the firing line. However, imho they suck pretty hard on melee heroes, because of their close range you can easily slow them or kill them before they can do anything. However, i suppose later in the game it might be a pretty decent pickup on chronos, because his bubble holds them in place and gives his illusions a chance to do some serious damage

[Lucretius]

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/7383/generalitemorder.jpg

I gotta say, this makes little sense to me.

- The Purpose of maxing out your leap early on seems to contradict how long you put off buying Marchers. If you're looking for mobility (for the purpose of escaping or initiating) then marchers will assist you in the required escape/chase after your leap.

- Rushing Runed Axe to improve your farm seems contradictory given that with this item progression you'll have basically the same attack speed you started the game out with. These slow swings might hit a lot harder but that 500g item makes a world of difference for farm.

- Why put off buying Lifesteal for so long when it helps so much?

- Steamboots give you so much... I'm not really sure why these are completed last... especially since they don't require a recipe.

How about:
- Starting: :IronBuckler: :RunesOfTheBlight: :RunesOfTheBlight: :MinorTotem: :MinorTotem:
No difference between us here

- Priority: :LoggersHatchet: :Marchers: :Lifetube:
The thing is, if you're getting any harass at all, then the ability to move around is critical. Getting up to and away from a creep wave to snag a last hit is crucial. This also helps you stretch out that regen you picked up. You gotta believe that if the enemy knows you're going skimpy on movement then they're going to exploit that.

- Next: :Manatube: :HungrySpirit: :GlovesOfTheSwift:
Once your sustainer is complete you're ready to start dipping into the jungle for that farm you're not getting while the creep wave is pushed to your opponents tower, and that farm is dependant on how fast you kill things. Grabbing a little lifesteal really helps your last hitting as well as gives you more options in the jungle.

- Next: :BolsteringArmband: :BastardSword: :Broadsword:
Really at this point you're 450g away from completing boots that offer you a lot. No reason not to finish them when its too cheap. At this time you'll also be moving through the jungle limited only by your movement speed and your attack speed... this item improves both. Of course Runed Axe at this point is going to be loads more effective considering you've got some attack speed going.

- Lastly: :ElderParasite:

I dunno, I'm going to try it your way but it seems really counter productive.

[ObeseSheep]

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/7383/generalitemorder.jpg

I gotta say, this makes little sense to me.

- The Purpose of maxing out your leap early on seems to contradict how long you put off buying Marchers. If you're looking for mobility (for the purpose of escaping or initiating) then marchers will assist you in the required escape/chase after your leap.

- Rushing Runed Axe to improve your farm seems contradictory given that with this item progression you'll have basically the same attack speed you started the game out with. These slow swings might hit a lot harder but that 500g item makes a world of difference for farm.

- Why put off buying Lifesteal for so long when it helps so much?

- Steamboots give you so much... I'm not really sure why these are completed last... especially since they don't require a recipe.

How about:
- Starting: :IronBuckler: :RunesOfTheBlight: :RunesOfTheBlight: :MinorTotem: :MinorTotem:
No difference between us here

- Priority: :LoggersHatchet: :Marchers: :Lifetube:
The thing is, if you're getting any harass at all, then the ability to move around is critical. Getting up to and away from a creep wave to snag a last hit is crucial. This also helps you stretch out that regen you picked up. You gotta believe that if the enemy knows you're going skimpy on movement then they're going to exploit that.

- Next: :Manatube: :HungrySpirit: :GlovesOfTheSwift:
Once your sustainer is complete you're ready to start dipping into the jungle for that farm you're not getting while the creep wave is pushed to your opponents tower, and that farm is dependant on how fast you kill things. Grabbing a little lifesteal really helps your last hitting as well as gives you more options in the jungle.

- Next: :BolsteringArmband: :BastardSword: :Broadsword:
Really at this point you're 450g away from completing boots that offer you a lot. No reason not to finish them when its too cheap. At this time you'll also be moving through the jungle limited only by your movement speed and your attack speed... this item improves both. Of course Runed Axe at this point is going to be loads more effective considering you've got some attack speed going.

- Lastly: :ElderParasite:

I dunno, I'm going to try it your way but it seems really counter productive.

You don't need life steal at all untill after :RunedAxe: and :Steamboots:. :Lifetube: gives you enough regen early on.

I usually go :LoggersHatchet: :MinorTotem: :MinorTotem: :RunesOfTheBlight: :RunesOfTheBlight:. In the lane: :IronBuckler: :Lifetube: :IronShield: :PowerSupply: :Marchers: :Sustainer: :Steamboots: :RunedAxe:. Blue... IDC what's faster. :RunedAxe: first may be faster but it's dangerous. Only on :scou: would it make sence to rush :RunedAxe: because he has high move speed with vanish anyway.

[Javu]

I spose its situational really. In the perfect scenario rushing runed axe is the much better choice, but if the enemy is harassing you hard, then theres no reason you can't pick up boots first to allow you to get some last hits easier, or getting the hungry spirit to allow you to jungle a bit while in the lane. However, the longer RA gets put off the worse its going to be, so if you can rush it then go for it imo

[Streaks]

why runed axe before EP?

[ObeseSheep]

why runed axe before EP?

How can :ElderParasite: help a hard carry farm? It's regen is worse then :RunedAxe: at that early in the game.

[Javu]

Exactly, and later on once you've got your RA it should take you less than 5 minutes to get both your steamboots and EP anyway, so its not very hard to get later on

[Snarve]

I think Pebbles should be listed as a good allie too.

NICE GUIDE!!!

[FuGoo]

there is none

[FuGoo]

there is none

[Streaks]

Exactly, and later on once you've got your RA it should take you less than 5 minutes to get both your steamboots and EP anyway, so its not very hard to get later on


Okay thanks, I've been going RA first and it works well, but quite a few people have been telling me I should go EP first, so I was wondering what their reasoning was.

[ObeseSheep]

Okay thanks, I've been going RA first and it works well, but quite a few people have been telling me I should go EP first, so I was wondering what their reasoning was.

Well. It depends. Personally i feel if you play an active :chro: you will need to skip :RunedAxe: at LEASt early on so you can be as usefull to your team as posible. But if you plan on farming/being less active then get :RunedAxe: first. Blue says **** that and gets :RunedAxe: before boots. ROFL

[r1g0]

SotM isnt a good choice when u have AoE allies and they cant do it right? because if the other team are atacking ur allies u could ult and they us their spell even inside chronofield(this could work also if they aatack your team "out of no where")??? or blink outside of it,and if u only have 70 secs cooldown this could be done almost every fight

[Ckicrezid]

I took the advices that this guide provided me with and I rushed RA directly(had it at around 9-10 minutes). Started off with creep axe iron buckler and hp pot and laned with DShaman. We laned vs :scou: and :witc:, we managed really well and I got some awesome babysitting by DShaman. I ended up with 6-0(Hero kills) around 370 gpm I think, and they conceded at 16 minutes :)

I really didnt play Chronos much before but after I read this guide I decided to give it a try and it worked out well. AWESOME guide!

[NaB]

9-10 minute runed axe means basically your enemies are not only terrible at last hitting and harassing, but are actively feeding you (or its EM).

I have never seen a chronos get runed first until tonight when my friend said he saw it in a guide...

runed on chronos is just ****ing fail imo. He is one of very few heroes that can rape with an elders parasite, which as anyone who gumps around with that item knows also adds some punch to your farming.

Why would you jerk off trying to make a 5k item for farming, when a 2k item will do just fine. Delaying your savage mace by 3k... not pro.

As for the cleave during chrono bubble, If you had your ep/mace you'd kill 2 people during bubble anyways, and then leap out to stunlock-kill a 3rd. Wtf is the point of runed? They going to turn around and pwn you 2v5?

Properly played chronos is steam + ep + savage mace = gg.

If you get those items the only way you can really f it up is by bubbling 1 person and getting stunlocked by the other 4 while your team watches oprah.

[Javu]

The thing with runed axe is that if you get it in 20 mins like you should, then at the 30 minute mark you will have your steam + ep + savage mace = gg. Rushing a runed axe obviously decreases your early and mid game potential by alot, but makes your late game potential sky rocket. This is a good thing when you have to out farm an enemy carry, because if you go for your steam + ep + savage mace and dick around ganking the enemy mid game, while the enemy tdl rushes an RA while the rest of his team turtles for him, he is going to rape your face late game.

And besides, how long does it normally take you to get steam + ep + savage mace? The difference between going your build and this guides build is that savage mace will only be delayed by a small amount when getting RA because of the amount RA increases your farm.

So pretty much, don't rush RA if your not good enough to get it in 20 mins, and if you can't do that then don't play carries honestly. If you want to get ep + steam + savage mace and gank mid game, then pick mm instead and get steam + bottle and gank cos your gonna do a better job of it

[GregerMoek]

For those who argue about items:
The thing about DotA and HoN is that you can play the characters very differently based on item choices, and certain item builds are better than others when it comes to certain situations.

I'm sure that if the team wasn't able to turtle for 30min and they needed someone to help with ganks alot the EPfirst build could be better, though if they can turtle and even if they only do it half-great. The farming way will have a very nice result. The farming way is by no means something that cancels your ability to help in team fights, when I play Chronos (Which I don't do very good anyways) I usualy manage to place an ulti to help our team get the kill on some dude trying to gank them. The example shown in this guide is an excellent way of doing it. Putting some important enemy hero on the edge of the field so everyone can nuke him.

Depending on what fits your style best, get those items. And ofcourse consider the situation and adapt somewhat.
This guide is showing one way of playing Chronos and in order to pull this guide's playstyle off best I'm sure the author has done some reasoning behind the items bought.

If you play Chronos in another way then I'm sure that works well too, because there is different ways of playing the heroes, I dare hope that's a fact.

[ObeseSheep]

9-10 minute runed axe means basically your enemies are not only terrible at last hitting and harassing, but are actively feeding you (or its EM).

I have never seen a chronos get runed first until tonight when my friend said he saw it in a guide...

runed on chronos is just ****ing fail imo. He is one of very few heroes that can rape with an elders parasite, which as anyone who gumps around with that item knows also adds some punch to your farming.

Why would you jerk off trying to make a 5k item for farming, when a 2k item will do just fine. Delaying your savage mace by 3k... not pro.

As for the cleave during chrono bubble, If you had your ep/mace you'd kill 2 people during bubble anyways, and then leap out to stunlock-kill a 3rd. Wtf is the point of runed? They going to turn around and pwn you 2v5?

Properly played chronos is steam + ep + savage mace = gg.

If you get those items the only way you can really f it up is by bubbling 1 person and getting stunlocked by the other 4 while your team watches oprah.

:ElderParasite: helps your farm? wutsonwut. 25 mana cost item on a hero that has garbage mana and high mana cost skills? And you are going to spam it with no regen? Very nice. Every time I see a :chro: with no :RunedAxe: and no :glac: they never have mana and always fail their initiation. ALWAYS. And there are other reasons too say :RunedAxe: is better (a lot of them better then regen) but I don't want to post them. There are too many. The only reason you should get :ElderParasite: and skip :RunedAxe: is to be more active or if you know you can't get it in 20 mins.
IDK what stomps you've been playing.

[Blue_Aura]

It looks like its time to do another big addition to my guide as the game has completely changed with these new additions and game changes. Everything Javu says above is pretty much right so I will soon write up a more early effective and less farm heavy guide to put along side Chrono's hard carry role. I will need to do alot of testing for this as I havent played a 'semi carry'/'delayed hard carry'? role on him before and would prefer to post what works best on him. Any suggestions would be great!

[monsterr]

It looks like its time to do another big addition to my guide as the game has completely changed with these new additions and game changes. Everything Javu says above is pretty much right so I will soon write up a more early effective and less farm heavy guide to put along side Chrono's hard carry role. I will need to do alot of testing for this as I havent played a 'semi carry'/'delayed hard carry'? role on him before and would prefer to post what works best on him. Any suggestions would be great!

steam boots
elder parasite
power supply

BAM

you are effective early game.

[The_Eye]

I like Insanitarius, but maybe that's just me. Doesn't screw up his crap mana and is available whenever he needs it, though at the cost of some true dmg/sec.

[monsterr]

I like Insanitarius, but maybe that's just me. Doesn't screw up his crap mana and is available whenever he needs it, though at the cost of some true dmg/sec.

insan is more of a str hero item, since the +25 str goes to waste on chronos in his bubble.

better off focusing on items that give +dmg and +agi

[Blue_Aura]

steam boots
elder parasite
power supply

BAM

you are effective early game.

Obviously, but their might be a better way that will set you up for later.
It may be better to add a bracers or something like that to keep enough mana for your tp's + bubble + leaps and add survivability.

I've also heard people getting warpcleft with the argument that you won't be taking the extra damage.

Also have to consider his skill build, May not be worth MAXING rewind first as the bash could come in handy?...

[R3znoR]

Very nice guide. Love the detailed explanation.:FlyingCourier:

[Javu]

trilaning him with andro and glacius seems to be pretty popular atm, and very effective

[ObeseSheep]

It looks like its time to do another big addition to my guide as the game has completely changed with these new additions and game changes. Everything Javu says above is pretty much right so I will soon write up a more early effective and less farm heavy guide to put along side Chrono's hard carry role. I will need to do alot of testing for this as I havent played a 'semi carry'/'delayed hard carry'? role on him before and would prefer to post what works best on him. Any suggestions would be great!

You can still play an active :chro: with out :ElderParasite: early game. He has a lot of dmg early on.


Obviously, but their might be a better way that will set you up for later.
It may be better to add a bracers or something like that to keep enough mana for your tp's + bubble + leaps and add survivability.

I've also heard people getting warpcleft with the argument that you won't be taking the extra damage.

Also have to consider his skill build, May not be worth MAXING rewind first as the bash could come in handy?...

Get one lvl of rewind early to be safe. Then max the bash. Max rewind if it's too dangerous. Also, finish :Steamboots: before :RunedAxe: (I cannot stress this enough). Finishing :Steamboots: before your finish :Steamboots: is not a huge delay. It's very easy to have :PowerSupply: :IronShield: :LoggersHatchet: :Steamboots: :RunedAxe: at the 20 min mark.

It's not that hard to be usefull early game. 3 second aoe disable at lvl 6 is not useless. :souls: works very well with Chronos because they can set up EASY ASS ganks early on.

Believe it or not Chronos does not fit every line up (OMFG!!! CHRONOS RAPED ME IN EM OPP!!!##!). I found this out recently (idk why I didn't think of it sooner). He works best with nuke heavy teams (:souls: :plag: :wret: etc). What's the point of a :chro: on your team when you already have a disable heay team? He ults and then your team just auto atks a little... It doesn't work. You want your team to decimate them while you ult.

[ts808]

RA or EP first?

[monsterr]

Obviously, but their might be a better way that will set you up for later.
It may be better to add a bracers or something like that to keep enough mana for your tp's + bubble + leaps and add survivability.

I've also heard people getting warpcleft with the argument that you won't be taking the extra damage.

Also have to consider his skill build, May not be worth MAXING rewind first as the bash could come in handy?...

i always maxed leap and bash first, having a stun early games can help a lot, and since you hit for like 80 dmg at lvl 3 you can get a hero kill easily.

[pwn_U_fast]

Why this is now core:






- The build up:







* Lifetube: the fact that you can purchase Lifetube from the side shops in your lane is awesome. With the Lifetube, Iron Buckler and Hungry Spirit, you should pretty much be able to shrug off any harassment in your lane, and you will be able to neutral fine.






* Manatube: is also great as the next item because it should keep your mana levels high enough to escape gank and ensures you to be able to TP and assist your allies at a tower push.





* Broadsword and Bastard Sword: Not the best value for money but the damage helps.








- The price: $4350 is cheaper then most of the recipe damage items and is a great price for what it does for you. The fact that it is useful throughout the entire game makes it a great pickup.








- The farm: Runed axe is amazing for farming giving a good increase to your Gold per Minute from taking down creep waves and camps extremely fast. Just make sure you get all those last hits when in a lane, the creeps are good at stealing from a Runed Axe wielder.








- Scale: It scales amazingly with your ultimate.










Your reasoning for why this is core is atrocious. First you suggest that with a life tube and hungry spirit you can ward off most harassment. You can ward off harasment without the life tube - just focus on getting the elder first.


Also since when has RA synergized with his skills? it doesn't. it doesnt increase proc rates, and only 'synergizes' with his ult if the other team is stupid and doesnt position themselves properly. if the other team is smart at all, they will spread out, you will trap one or two, start out attacking and get nuked by your opponents. instead keep farming with the elder to get a savage mace or shrunken head so you can ult without getting raped.


besides you dont need the mana regen when you are farming. since two of his abilities are passive, you can activate the elder, and use it run to the next camp faster and continue farming. test it. your gpm will stay high if you combine that with creep stacking. and if you are smart and put one point into rewind, you can handle triple and quad stacks to further increase gpm.


RA SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER EVER be bought on cronos. worst item ever for him. even worse than cranium basher. take this off your guide or i will lose all respect for it.

[ObeseSheep]

Your reasoning for why this is core is atrocious. First you suggest that with a life tube and hungry spirit you can ward off most harassment. You can ward off harasment without the life tube - just focus on getting the elder first.


Also since when has RA synergized with his skills? it doesn't. it doesnt increase proc rates, and only 'synergizes' with his ult if the other team is stupid and doesnt position themselves properly. if the other team is smart at all, they will spread out, you will trap one or two, start out attacking and get nuked by your opponents. instead keep farming with the elder to get a savage mace or shrunken head so you can ult without getting raped.


besides you dont need the mana regen when you are farming. since two of his abilities are passive, you can activate the elder, and use it run to the next camp faster and continue farming. test it. your gpm will stay high if you combine that with creep stacking. and if you are smart and put one point into rewind, you can handle triple and quad stacks to further increase gpm.


RA SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER EVER be bought on cronos. worst item ever for him. even worse than cranium basher. take this off your guide or i will lose all respect for it.


Like i said before. 25 mana cost item on a hero that has garbage mana and mana regen to begin with? Sorry no. Just no. :RunedAxe: is not always core but it's very good on Chronos. He has SRS (bzn) farming and regen problems.

idk why everyone ignores the regen and dmg on :RunedAxe:. The item gives amazing dmg and regen for it's price (Chronos NEEDS regen). I can't stress this enough.

Also, the synergy that he was talking about is ment to punish the enemies mistakes. If you drop your ult on 3 people who got even a little clumped, you have just increased your dps by 80%. Nuff said.

You forget Chronos is a carry. :RunedAxe: helps him get to the late game better equiped and faster.

[Typhoria]

@pwn there is a reason you are sub 1200. Don't bash someone's guide when you fail to perform well.

You cant afford to get an EP and plan on using it effectivly. In a half decent game you will get 2 maybe 3 max in your bubble. If you missed their nukers/ccers you are dead. Rewind can only do so much especially with EP up.

[monsterr]

Your reasoning for why this is core is atrocious. First you suggest that with a life tube and hungry spirit you can ward off most harassment. You can ward off harasment without the life tube - just focus on getting the elder first.


Also since when has RA synergized with his skills? it doesn't. it doesnt increase proc rates, and only 'synergizes' with his ult if the other team is stupid and doesnt position themselves properly. if the other team is smart at all, they will spread out, you will trap one or two, start out attacking and get nuked by your opponents. instead keep farming with the elder to get a savage mace or shrunken head so you can ult without getting raped.


besides you dont need the mana regen when you are farming. since two of his abilities are passive, you can activate the elder, and use it run to the next camp faster and continue farming. test it. your gpm will stay high if you combine that with creep stacking. and if you are smart and put one point into rewind, you can handle triple and quad stacks to further increase gpm.


RA SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER EVER be bought on cronos. worst item ever for him. even worse than cranium basher. take this off your guide or i will lose all respect for it.

let me know how you are quad stacking camps, i'd love to know.


Like i said before. 25 mana cost item on a hero that has garbage mana and mana regen to begin with? Sorry no. Just no. :RunedAxe: is not always core but it's very good on Chronos. He has SRS (bzn) farming and regen problems.

idk why everyone ignores the regen and dmg on :RunedAxe:. The item gives amazing dmg and regen for it's price (Chronos NEEDS regen). I can't stress this enough.

Also, the synergy that he was talking about is ment to punish the enemies mistakes. If you drop your ult on 3 people who got even a little clumped, you have just increased your dps by 80%. Nuff said.

You forget Chronos is a carry. :RunedAxe: helps him get to the late game better equiped and faster.

rofl it's 25 mana, eldar parasite lasts like 10 seconds, you regain 1 mana a second, it has a cd of like 20 seconds, so in reality it is only costing you 5 mana.

pretty sure he can handle it you ****ing idiot.

[pwn_U_fast]

let me know how you are quad stacking camps, i'd love to know.

quad stacking camps. i do it all the time with nukers, supporters, and carries for additional farming as opposed to straight laning. start your aggro at 53-54 seconds and you can easily do this. also works well on ancients, but youll probably need a support or stunner to help you take them down. it actually allows for some really sweet pulls, especially with characters like ds who can heal the creeps and attack the minions without taking damage.


rofl it's 25 mana, eldar parasite lasts like 10 seconds, you regain 1 mana a second, it has a cd of like 20 seconds, so in reality it is only costing you 5 mana.

pretty sure he can handle it you ****ing idiot.

100% agreed, and he can.


@pwn there is a reason you are sub 1200. Don't bash someone's guide when you fail to perform well.

I have played 1 em game, that should say something. at least im not retarded and stat patting. secondly, I fully admit that my ability to micromanage in game and last hit is sub par. On top of that, if my teammates are bad i get disinterested and stop paying attention, thus my performance further decreases. way to attack my overall grasp of game concepts based on my psr! kudos to you!

however i clearly am a more intelligent person than you, because any idiot would know that game performance != game knowledge. i have been an avid dota player for several years and converted to hon in the beta. i have a solid .7 kdr that was once at .8 because yeah i am improving, but i still have bad games. im a pubby, and not the best one at that. you know what else. i don't care at all. so get over it. I wil tell you that and my psr fluctuates from 1100-1600 because i usually play AR games or AP and random. I don't like using the same hero consistently, it makes the game boring - which is much more important to me than some psr stat. i play the game because i think its fun, not because i want to achieve 2000 psr. so yeah, i have a bad psr, but im not concerned about that. if i wanted to be a pro, id quit my job, quit school, sit inside and be loser all day like you. not my cup of tea.


You cant afford to get an EP and plan on using it effectivly. In a half decent game you will get 2 maybe 3 max in your bubble. If you missed their nukers/ccers you are dead. Rewind can only do so much especially with EP up.

you clearly missed the part abou the shrunken head. ep + sh = GG at 30 min mark. if you go straight for elder early game you will perform much better overall as you will be able to immediately start participating in team fights as opposed to farming all game until 45 minute mark. get your hungry spirit then work on your steamboots. immediately farm the recipe for elder, then proceed into shrunken head (if there are nukers - if there aren't go straight for savage as your damage output will regen your health faster than you can say holy ****). you will not see a drop in gpm if you do it right. thus you can avoid wasting 4950 on a useless farming item for cronos that doesn't synergize for **** on this hero (don't get me wrong, im a big fan of the ra on the right heroes). and as i said you wont see a drop in gpm if you do it right, which would allow you to complete the shrunken by about the 30-35 mark. at that point the elder ias, damage from stun procs, and life and damage from shrunken, as well as magic immunity, really jacks your survivability, and allows you to initiate, kill, and flee. try it. i think you will find it a much better choice. if you don't like it, at least it might make you realize how bad the runed axe is on cronos.

if you don't believe inquire into the coding and you will see that there is no code in the ra or cronos that would indicate any amount of synergy between the two, and in gameplay it's easy to see that unless he ults and traps 4-5 heroes in the field, it doesn't help him at all.

your suggesting that non mana intensive hero requires mana regen. your an idiot for even suggesting that he needs mana regen. if you're really that desperate for mana, spend 210 on a mb. in the laning phase that's all you need. and by the time you're farming you should be popping into the lane occasionally which would allow you to rack up a couple of charges. by late game when he has stats, you will never need mana regen on this hero. and if you do, go kill kongor. with elder and savage he can pretty much solo kongor, maybe with the help of a tank or healer. and with the token and elder it is good game. just save ur ult for AFTER you die.

also just noticed this Typhoria - you're 1699 psr may be impressive, but if were gonna stat attack that 1.3 kdr is pretty grim. especially given you're fav hero picks. pretty cocky for a not so good puber. that and 206 gpm when your favorite hero is predator. lol. you aren't even that good. at best a mediocore pubby. welcome to the real world. you aren't the bst hon player alive. and just an fyi, my clan has played and beat yours. and yes, i had a 1250 psr at the time, and boy were they pissed when they all lost 30+ psr because of me. too bad it was pre-patch, or id post the replay. The sad thing is, i've played with some of your other clan mates, and they liked me, even though my psr was like 1320 at the time. why because i went 6-0 support glacius and maxed my aura by lvl 8.

[Javu]

quad stacking camps. i do it all the time with nukers, supporters, and carries for additional farming as opposed to straight laning. start your aggro at 53-54 seconds and you can easily do this. also works well on ancients, but youll probably need a support or stunner to help you take them down. it actually allows for some really sweet pulls, especially with characters like ds who can heal the creeps and attack the minions without taking damage.



100% agreed, and he can.



I have played 1 em game, that should say something. at least im not retarded and stat patting. secondly, I fully admit that my ability to micromanage in game and last hit is sub par. On top of that, if my teammates are bad i get disinterested and stop paying attention, thus my performance further decreases. way to attack my overall grasp of game concepts based on my psr! kudos to you!

however i clearly am a more intelligent person than you, because any idiot would know that game performance != game knowledge. i have been an avid dota player for several years and converted to hon in the beta. i have a solid .7 kdr that was once at .8 because yeah i am improving, but i still have bad games. im a pubby, and not the best one at that. you know what else. i don't care at all. so get over it. I wil tell you that and my psr fluctuates from 1100-1600 because i usually play AR games or AP and random. I don't like using the same hero consistently, it makes the game boring - which is much more important to me than some psr stat. i play the game because i think its fun, not because i want to achieve 2000 psr. so yeah, i have a bad psr, but im not concerned about that. if i wanted to be a pro, id quit my job, quit school, sit inside and be loser all day like you. not my cup of tea.



you clearly missed the part abou the shrunken head. ep + sh = GG at 30 min mark. if you go straight for elder early game you will perform much better overall as you will be able to immediately start participating in team fights as opposed to farming all game until 45 minute mark. get your hungry spirit then work on your steamboots. immediately farm the recipe for elder, then proceed into shrunken head (if there are nukers - if there aren't go straight for savage as your damage output will regen your health faster than you can say holy ****). you will not see a drop in gpm if you do it right. thus you can avoid wasting 4950 on a useless farming item for cronos that doesn't synergize for **** on this hero (don't get me wrong, im a big fan of the ra on the right heroes). and as i said you wont see a drop in gpm if you do it right, which would allow you to complete the shrunken by about the 30-35 mark. at that point the elder ias, damage from stun procs, and life and damage from shrunken, as well as magic immunity, really jacks your survivability, and allows you to initiate, kill, and flee. try it. i think you will find it a much better choice. if you don't like it, at least it might make you realize how bad the runed axe is on cronos.

if you don't believe inquire into the coding and you will see that there is no code in the ra or cronos that would indicate any amount of synergy between the two, and in gameplay it's easy to see that unless he ults and traps 4-5 heroes in the field, it doesn't help him at all.

your suggesting that non mana intensive hero requires mana regen. your an idiot for even suggesting that he needs mana regen. if you're really that desperate for mana, spend 210 on a mb. in the laning phase that's all you need. and by the time you're farming you should be popping into the lane occasionally which would allow you to rack up a couple of charges. by late game when he has stats, you will never need mana regen on this hero. and if you do, go kill kongor. with elder and savage he can pretty much solo kongor, maybe with the help of a tank or healer. and with the token and elder it is good game. just save ur ult for AFTER you die.

also just noticed this Typhoria - you're 1699 psr may be impressive, but if were gonna stat attack that 1.3 kdr is pretty grim. especially given you're fav hero picks. pretty cocky for a not so good puber. that and 206 gpm when your favorite hero is predator. lol. you aren't even that good. at best a mediocore pubby. welcome to the real world. you aren't the bst hon player alive. and just an fyi, my clan has played and beat yours. and yes, i had a 1250 psr at the time, and boy were they pissed when they all lost 30+ psr because of me. too bad it was pre-patch, or id post the replay. The sad thing is, i've played with some of your other clan mates, and they liked me, even though my psr was like 1320 at the time. why because i went 6-0 support glacius and maxed my aura by lvl 8.
He's laughing at you because you CAN'T quad stack camps. You can only stack neutral and ancient camps 3 times aka TRIPPLE stack. IIRC TRIPPLE < QUAD and if TRIPPLE is the MOST you can do then you CAN'T QUAD stack camps. I'm sure he didn't need your little guide on stacking, you just completely missed his point. Just wanted to point that out fyi

Its not mana in the laning phaze thats his problem. Its mana while hes farming from the 15ish-25ish minute mark, when you should be in and out of the forest and the lane. If your not using your leap to farm during this time your doing it wrong, and definately not maximising your farm. So a mana battery while your in the forest is the biggest waste of gold ive ever seen.

RA doesn't necessarily synergise with his skill build, but it sure as hell synergises with his role. Hes a hard carry, and close to one the best hard carries in the game if played correctly. If your versing an opposing hard carry your primary role is to outfarm that hard carry, and an ep isn't going to let you outfarm an enemy tdl if she rushed RA, she will outfarm you and proceed to rape your face later in the game and you will fail at your job. Lifetube makes farming INCREDIBLY easier in the laning phase. If your not against retards in your lane, they WILL harass you and you WILL take alot of damage. The hungry spirit life steal helps, but you need to be attacking creeps to get the regen from it, and if your opponents know what they're doing everytime you try to attack creeps you will take a ton of damage, and every second your not hitting a creep your not getting any regen from the hungry spirit. Whereas lifetube is ALWAYS giving you health back. So if you get beat up a bit while last hitting, you can easily sit back for a bit and get some hp back, instead of sitting on no hp and you can't regen health because the enemies will kill you the second you try to attack creeps.

RA is also good because if your support is doing their job, and like you even just happily told us about, TRIPPLE stacking creep camps, when you get RA you will beat down stacked camps RIDICULOUSLY faster than with just an EP. If your team is doing their jobs and you play right, you WILL notice a difference in your farm with an RA

However, RA is situational to a degree. In the best circumstances it is the best route to go and the best way to play chronos. However, sometimes it isn't ideal to pick up, and in these cases you've probably done something wrong or should've picked someone else

[Javu]

btw, sub 1200 means you are PREEETTTTYYY bad no offence. I don't think i could actually fall that low if i randomed every game and played with my eyes closed. And btw, your win% is 48 yet your sub 1200. That means you must've lost to a lot of teams whose PSR balance was heavily weighted against them. So attacking that other guy about how your better than him and making his team lose 30+ psr cos they lost to people with lower psr is kinda funny, because you seem to have a decentish knowledge of the game, yet you probably lost to people who were bad at the game AND didn't know what they were doing. I'm pretty sure I'd rather lose to bads who at least know what they're supposed to do than simply just losing to bads who have no idea what they're doing. Sorry about the personal attack but i thought it was pretty unfair that you attacked that other guy

EDIT: You've also played 399 games at an average of 40 mins. Thats 266 hours of game time since release. How do you fit work, school and life around your hon time :|

[ObeseSheep]

btw, sub 1200 means you are PREEETTTTYYY bad no offence. I don't think i could actually fall that low if i randomed every game and played with my eyes closed. And btw, your win% is 48 yet your sub 1200. That means you must've lost to a lot of teams whose PSR balance was heavily weighted against them. So attacking that other guy about how your better than him and making his team lose 30+ psr cos they lost to people with lower psr is kinda funny, because you seem to have a decentish knowledge of the game, yet you probably lost to people who were bad at the game AND didn't know what they were doing. I'm pretty sure I'd rather lose to bads who at least know what they're supposed to do than simply just losing to bads who have no idea what they're doing. Sorry about the personal attack but i thought it was pretty unfair that you attacked that other guy

EDIT: You've also played 399 games at an average of 40 mins. Thats 266 hours of game time since release. How do you fit work, school and life around your hon time :|


I didn't feel like flaming this retard because I'm tired but thanks for doing it for me. =D =D =D.

[Javu]

np, thought id better do my good deed for the day and save everyone the time <3

[pwn_U_fast]

i already know i am not very good, but i do play clan games with my guys against 1600s and i do just fine. playing pubbies is stressful. you get on swings, sometimes they are really bad. i'm probably 5-40 or something like that right just because of poorly chosen pub games and teammates. playing with people too far below my skill knowledge. Then they suck and i get frustrated and play poorly, so my psr tanks. two weeks ago my psr was 1600 and you guys probably wouldn't have commented on it.

well so i didn't actually quad stack. i guess there was something i didn't know about the game. missed that one. my bad. i guess i wasn't paying attention to the number of actual successful stacks. so i could say i attempted it, but i agree with you it didn't happen.

and I work 40+ hours a week and have a degree. i'm just continuing school part-time. i play hon a lot because i am still very young, but can't party every night because of how busy i am. so i play a lot of hon on my free-time, and i don't think i should have to justify that to you.

[ObeseSheep]

RA or EP first?

If you get :ElderParasite: first, you should just skip :RunedAxe: all together. :RunedAxe: is not worth it after the 23-25 min mark (and that's stretching it).


np, thought id better do my good deed for the day and save everyone the time <3

=D

[Blue_Aura]

Anyways, now that the trolls have been dealt with I'll be alternating between playing Chronos and Starcraft II over the weekend and hopefully will be good to update then :D.

Oh and pwn_u_fast if your so good, why don't you stomp your way out of 1151 psr <_<. It's easy enough....

[ArrPirate]

When me and my friend play Chronos, I personally follow this guide and still try the runed axe, but my friend personally chooses not to get it at all, and I often find it much more useful to get Elder Parasite first so if the other team is push crazy earlier, and you get a good ult on them, you won't be hitting really really slowly inside the bubble while your nukers can still lay waste. Also, if your laning against a relatively weaker lane and you have a good stun/nuker in your lane (someone like :pyro:) I find it useful to get curse of ages for the set stun. I think its something like hit four times then blink in and get the stun. When my friend plays Chronos, he does this and when the stun is ready I get ready on side, he blinks in, stuns, I am able to land the pyromancer stun and usually we can get a kill on squishier heroes. (I am still learning to play Chronos better and this is mainly observations of friend)

edit: I reread the curse of ages in your guide and I'm checking the replay to see if it has to be same target for stun.

[Javu]

i don't think i should have to justify that to you.
That's fine by me but if your not willing to justify it, then don't call someone else out for spending all their time playing hon

[monsterr]

When me and my friend play Chronos, I personally follow this guide and still try the runed axe, but my friend personally chooses not to get it at all, and I often find it much more useful to get Elder Parasite first so if the other team is push crazy earlier, and you get a good ult on them, you won't be hitting really really slowly inside the bubble while your nukers can still lay waste. Also, if your laning against a relatively weaker lane and you have a good stun/nuker in your lane (someone like :pyro:) I find it useful to get curse of ages for the set stun. I think its something like hit four times then blink in and get the stun. When my friend plays Chronos, he does this and when the stun is ready I get ready on side, he blinks in, stuns, I am able to land the pyromancer stun and usually we can get a kill on squishier heroes. (I am still learning to play Chronos better and this is mainly observations of friend)

edit: I reread the curse of ages in your guide and I'm checking the replay to see if it has to be same target for stun.

you should wait until you have 2 hits until the stun procs, because the enemy will already be confused when you leap on them and be slowed, allowing for that easy auto attack, then you can attack again easily stunning them, allowing you to position yourself infront of them and get a few more auto attacks.

[ArrPirate]

O thanks for the nice tip, I'll use it next time. This shows that Chronos is not completely useless early game and can gank pretty well. In addition if you have an aoe nuker on your team, during tower defends, your team stays back while you chronos sphere allowing someone like plauge or tb to cause devestation. while other range heroes dealing some damage and you are smacking down 1 person too.

[ObeseSheep]

When me and my friend play Chronos, I personally follow this guide and still try the runed axe, but my friend personally chooses not to get it at all, and I often find it much more useful to get Elder Parasite first so if the other team is push crazy earlier, and you get a good ult on them, you won't be hitting really really slowly inside the bubble while your nukers can still lay waste. Also, if your laning against a relatively weaker lane and you have a good stun/nuker in your lane (someone like :pyro:) I find it useful to get curse of ages for the set stun. I think its something like hit four times then blink in and get the stun. When my friend plays Chronos, he does this and when the stun is ready I get ready on side, he blinks in, stuns, I am able to land the pyromancer stun and usually we can get a kill on squishier heroes. (I am still learning to play Chronos better and this is mainly observations of friend)

edit: I reread the curse of ages in your guide and I'm checking the replay to see if it has to be same target for stun.


Chronos does not need :ElderParasite: to be usefull early game. Trust me. :chro: :souls:. Try it some time.

[monsterr]

Chronos does not need :ElderParasite: to be usefull early game. Trust me. :chro: :souls:. Try it some time.

that is a stupid lane, 2 carries that need farm fighting for last hits.

[terr0ar]

:chro::EnhancedMarchers::ElderParasite::SavageMace :<If game still continues>:Wingbow::Riftshards:

Never build runed axe . Ever .

[ObeseSheep]

that is a stupid lane, 2 carries that need farm fighting for last hits.

I didn't say they have to be lane buddies.


:chro::EnhancedMarchers::ElderParasite::SavageMace :<If game still continues>:Wingbow::Riftshards:

Never build runed axe . Ever .

Pls post why. It's like saying :Codex: on :scou: is core. Why.

[IKHAN]

i already know i am not very good, but i do play clan games with my guys against 1600s and i do just fine. playing pubbies is stressful. you get on swings, sometimes they are really bad. i'm probably 5-40 or something like that right just because of poorly chosen pub games and teammates. playing with people too far below my skill knowledge. Then they suck and i get frustrated and play poorly, so my psr tanks. two weeks ago my psr was 1600 and you guys probably wouldn't have commented on it.

well so i didn't actually quad stack. i guess there was something i didn't know about the game. missed that one. my bad. i guess i wasn't paying attention to the number of actual successful stacks. so i could say i attempted it, but i agree with you it didn't happen.

and I work 40+ hours a week and have a degree. i'm just continuing school part-time. i play hon a lot because i am still very young, but can't party every night because of how busy i am. so i play a lot of hon on my free-time, and i don't think i should have to justify that to you.

The more you try to prove yourself online, the more pathetic you look.

[terr0ar]

I didn't say they have to be lane buddies.



Pls post why. It's like saying :Codex: on :scou: is core. Why.

I'll tell u why . Because chronos is useless all the while he is doing it . Runed axe is not viable no matter how quickly u farm it . Its just not worth the price and time .

Runed axe + boots more or less = ghost marchers + ep .

U cant assist your team at ALL or get kills , but in the second case u pretty much dominate your lane get early kills ,and farm up savage mace very fast .

For runed axe to work u NEED Ep , and so that u dont suck and sit in forest and get ganked u NEED boots . It just doesnt work that way . Your average game will be over by that time . And u will lose . As it was 4vs5 all that while . And u still dont have the items you need .

Neways call me a noob or whatever u want as i am just your average pub level player and this works for me in the bracket i play . Its just that i have never heard or seen runed axe being made in a serious game either so yea its pretty much useless .

UNless your winning 5 mins into the game , and can farm forever without any issues( i.e ur winning neways so build whatever the hell u want to , frostburn , runed axe w/e ) , DONT GET RUNED AXE ON CHRONOS .

[terr0ar]

The dude who wrote the guide needs to play the new chronos , and get on with the times . This guide is totally outdated .

Chronos can totally rape his lane , with a stunner , his slow from first skill is just too awesome , coupled with Ghost marchers almost a gauranteed kill . Steamboots are useless for chronos . True fact . HP and attackspeed are useless when your opponent just runs away in the first place . Ghost marcher > 24 damage which is a lot for when u farm it , and early on chronos is not a squishy hero at all , so u dont really need any str buff from steamboots

tl;dr Ghost marchers > steamboots for chronos , ghost gets u kills , steam doesnt .

[terr0ar]

Also the third skill is now a gauranteed stun . <3 S2 epic changes . Pretty sure he is gonna see a lot of competetive play now , and lot of aggresive gameplay early on rather than a farm fest

[SilverStars]

Not necessarily, Chronos just gets played as an earlygame kill hero with a trilane in comp play, and I personally agree with this, his Time Leap is just awesome for damage. They still hard carry him, but this guide is focused more on dual-laning him.

[Javu]

I'll tell u why . Because chronos is useless all the while he is doing it . Runed axe is not viable no matter how quickly u farm it . Its just not worth the price and time .

Runed axe + boots more or less = ghost marchers + ep .

U cant assist your team at ALL or get kills , but in the second case u pretty much dominate your lane get early kills ,and farm up savage mace very fast .

For runed axe to work u NEED Ep , and so that u dont suck and sit in forest and get ganked u NEED boots . It just doesnt work that way . Your average game will be over by that time . And u will lose . As it was 4vs5 all that while . And u still dont have the items you need .

Neways call me a noob or whatever u want as i am just your average pub level player and this works for me in the bracket i play . Its just that i have never heard or seen runed axe being made in a serious game either so yea its pretty much useless .

UNless your winning 5 mins into the game , and can farm forever without any issues( i.e ur winning neways so build whatever the hell u want to , frostburn , runed axe w/e ) , DONT GET RUNED AXE ON CHRONOS .
You do realise, especially if your support knows what they're doing, it takes you around 2 minutes to get EP after you get runed axe?Thats not a very long time. The thing with the RA build is, for the first 30 minutes of the game you are pretty useless to your team, but no other build makes chronos more effective late game. He can be played as a mid game ganking type carry, but he can hard carry better than a lot of heroes, and this guide focuses on his ability to hard carry. If you don't have any friends playing with you or people you can rely on, playing this type of chronos is very difficult. You need your team to support you and essentially 5v4 the other team for the 1st 30 minutes, until you can take over and completely dominate the game and win it for your team. You pretty much need your team to pick up a few really strong team fight/ turtle heroes, like plague, magmus and hellbringer so that they can hold the other team off while you get your farm. You also need a really really good support player, who will place wards in your jungle for you, so you can't be ganked while farming and will stack neutrals and ancients for you so when you get your RA you can make your GPM skyrocket. So it pretty much comes down to whether you can rely on the other four players on your team to know how to play and support you while you farm, and in your typical low level pub this is not going to happen. But trust me, if your playing with a few friends and know how to support a chronos while he plays this way nothing dominates as hard late game as a chronos who rushes RA first. I play with Blue_Aura a lot and babysit and support him while he plays chronos, and when a chronos played this way is played properly, nothing compares to how hard he can dominate the game

[Fragnat]

Ok seriously all this Runed Axe or not debate is....*sigh*, i dont know if notice a pattern but last three pages of people who say RA is bad on him are below 1400 psr, while people who are trying to explain why it is good are above 1600 so please...if those of you who think RA is such bad item why dont you stomp your way out of <1500s but anyway...
Back on the topic, RA on chronos is good, if you get it before 20 min mark or at 20 min ur late game potential will go way up

[Javu]

I think a lot of the sub 1400 players that think RA is bad have this opinion because they play pubs by themselves and don't have the adequate support and teamwork it takes to play a pure farming chronos.

And in the end, this is a guide after all, a premium guide at that, and it is aimed at teaching players how to improve their game, so if someone comes in and questions things, then it is our job to teach them

repeating ourselves does get tedious though

[ObeseSheep]

I'll tell u why . Because chronos is useless all the while he is doing it . Runed axe is not viable no matter how quickly u farm it . Its just not worth the price and time .

Runed axe + boots more or less = ghost marchers + ep .

U cant assist your team at ALL or get kills , but in the second case u pretty much dominate your lane get early kills ,and farm up savage mace very fast .

For runed axe to work u NEED Ep , and so that u dont suck and sit in forest and get ganked u NEED boots . It just doesnt work that way . Your average game will be over by that time . And u will lose . As it was 4vs5 all that while . And u still dont have the items you need .

Neways call me a noob or whatever u want as i am just your average pub level player and this works for me in the bracket i play . Its just that i have never heard or seen runed axe being made in a serious game either so yea its pretty much useless .

UNless your winning 5 mins into the game , and can farm forever without any issues( i.e ur winning neways so build whatever the hell u want to , frostburn , runed axe w/e ) , DONT GET RUNED AXE ON CHRONOS .


The dude who wrote the guide needs to play the new chronos , and get on with the times . This guide is totally outdated .

Chronos can totally rape his lane , with a stunner , his slow from first skill is just too awesome , coupled with Ghost marchers almost a gauranteed kill . Steamboots are useless for chronos . True fact . HP and attackspeed are useless when your opponent just runs away in the first place . Ghost marcher > 24 damage which is a lot for when u farm it , and early on chronos is not a squishy hero at all , so u dont really need any str buff from steamboots

tl;dr Ghost marchers > steamboots for chronos , ghost gets u kills , steam doesnt .


Also the third skill is now a gauranteed stun . <3 S2 epic changes . Pretty sure he is gonna see a lot of competetive play now , and lot of aggresive gameplay early on rather than a farm fest


Aside from the triple posting, I trully believe you have no idea wtf you are talking about. :EnhancedMarchers: > :Steamboots:? WUT??!??!?! DID YOU JUST SAY THAT?

<rage> OMFG :chro: HAS A PORT AND 40% SLOW!!!! 40 ****ING %! HE DOESN'T NEED PHASE FOR GODS SAKE</rage>

Besides, the afk speed, mana, heath, and dmg it can give are far better then +24 dmg. Srsly, :Steamboots: are way better then :EnhancedMarchers:. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

:ElderParasite: does not make :chro: godly early game. He can still only get kill if they are half hp early game with :ElderParasite:.

And while you are roaming around and ganking, a good :chro: would be farming around 350-400 gpm AND dieing less because he knows :chro: is a late game hard carry that needs :RunedAxe: because :chro: has garbage farming power. /breath
To sum up. :chro: doesn't need :ElderParasite: to be usefull early game.
3 SECOND SUPERIOR MAGIC AOE DISABLE AT LVL 6 COUGH

PS: Did you say :chro: is not squishy?...... He has the worst str gain in the game..... <.<

[SilverStars]

Actually I'm pretty sure comp trilane Chronos rushes Ghost Marchers --> Runed Axe --> Elder

Not that I agree with this strat, but still, apparently it works. Ghost Marchers are better if you can animation cancel well, I suppose.

[yyr_]

VJ is probs his best baby sitter imo. His ultimate allows VJ to channel his 1500DPS ultimate safely for a full 5seconds, as well as the amazing mojo for early game heals. VJ also has 300+ MS and stupidly high base damage for early game harassment.

[ObeseSheep]

Actually I'm pretty sure comp trilane Chronos rushes Ghost Marchers --> Runed Axe --> Elder

Not that I agree with this strat, but still, apparently it works. Ghost Marchers are better if you can animation cancel well, I suppose.

IDk what kay' was thinking. :EnhancedMarchers: are garbage on :chro:.

[Blue_Aura]

IDk what kay' was thinking. :EnhancedMarchers: are garbage on :chro:.

The way I would justify that is Ep can 'sought of' cover for your AS whilst ghost marchers allow him to be more active in early fights but slightly reduce his end game power and his health pool. It also give him that little bit more damage on his last hits. I guess he assumed he would be jsut standing next to someone so he could keep hitting at everypossible time, when your running obviously your Attacks per min slow down, so ghost marches will get about equal or more hits off during the chase, hence doing more damage ,

[ArrPirate]

I usually follow this guide straight up. Its just that after seeing my friend play :chro: I questioned runed axe. Though I would see why my friend wouldn't get it (he doesn't follow ANY guides, doesn't follow competetive Hon and was a normal pub Dota player for many years getting good off experience itself), I still get runed axe, because of its regeneration but I've just been testing out to see if I get more effectiveness out of not getting runed axe first.
In the games I won with Chronos, I dominated late game. I've only had one game where they conceded at near 15 with him, and other games I find that picks with no synergy will own my team and we will lose before 30 or something like that (unless someone doesn't concede). In these games in the late game, I don't notice the regeneration/probably don't need and the cleave is less important imo too. (though I'm a noob so my word probably isn't worth much)

[ObeseSheep]

The way I would justify that is Ep can 'sought of' cover for your AS whilst ghost marchers allow him to be more active in early fights but slightly reduce his end game power and his health pool. It also give him that little bit more damage on his last hits. I guess he assumed he would be jsut standing next to someone so he could keep hitting at everypossible time, when your running obviously your Attacks per min slow down, so ghost marches will get about equal or more hits off during the chase, hence doing more damage ,

Meh... 40% slow.... Shouldn't need to be trying to get more auto atks in. But what do we know, lol. I thought :GeometersBane: was crap till the competitive players slapped me in the face. lol. I didn't think it was viable on any melee carry. Turns out, it is (/was?) just as op as :SavageMace:.


I usually follow this guide straight up. Its just that after seeing my friend play :chro: I questioned runed axe. Though I would see why my friend wouldn't get it (he doesn't follow ANY guides, doesn't follow competetive Hon and was a normal pub Dota player for many years getting good off experience itself), I still get runed axe, because of its regeneration but I've just been testing out to see if I get more effectiveness out of not getting runed axe first.
In the games I won with Chronos, I dominated late game. I've only had one game where they conceded at near 15 with him, and other games I find that picks with no synergy will own my team and we will lose before 30 or something like that (unless someone doesn't concede). In these games in the late game, I don't notice the regeneration/probably don't need and the cleave is less important imo too. (though I'm a noob so my word probably isn't worth much)

Well at least you didn't say OMFG NEVER RUNED IT BAD ITEM MY PSR IS LOW BECAUSE<insert crap here>. Good for you. =D

[SilverStars]

9062886

I got some really good farm at the start, so yeah I went for a Runed Axe like you suggested (even though I like Alch's better) ("wtf chronos battlefury"), and yeah pretty fun game, though BP not AP like you said. Brilliant team, though, even if Plague didn't lane that well or Corrupted died to Soulstealer twice in mid. We had both Plague and Magmus on our team, so yeah gg. I failed a lot of Chronofields, but eventually get one or two good ones off (Hey, don't blame me, I was under pressure).

Yeah, I suppose they weren't that good, but they were a clan with two 16XX psrs on Soulstealer and Hammerstorm.

Oh yeah, OMFG NEVER RUNED IT BAD ITEM MY PSR IS LOW BECAUSE I PLAY CHRONOS NOT ONE CLICK HERO YOU NOOB

[ArrPirate]

Okay so today, I worked with my friends build. Though we lost (missed 3 chronosfields), the build seemed pretty effective as in our lane we got a total of 5 kills before level 6 (though my friend plays any character and got 4/5 of them with puppet). So before you jump, have 2 charges on curse of ages, hit twice, the stun will proc, then if teamate has disable, its probably a kill right there. Also, I didn't get rush EP, but I got shield then steamboots then EP. The regen problem didn't seem that bad due to the only necessary thing I did during the teamfights was leap, ult,ep then you either get genocide or genocided, and due to early ganking, the farm was still kept high. In games where I win with Chronos I end up with over 400 gpm anyways so I don't know anything about what losing gpm should be with Chronos. Could someone who's cool and is more knowledgeable at whats going on check out how they do with this?

[ObeseSheep]

9062886

I got some really good farm at the start, so yeah I went for a Runed Axe like you suggested (even though I like Alch's better) ("wtf chronos battlefury"), and yeah pretty fun game, though BP not AP like you said. Brilliant team, though, even if Plague didn't lane that well or Corrupted died to Soulstealer twice in mid. We had both Plague and Magmus on our team, so yeLoah gg. I failed a lot of Chronofields, but eventually get one or two good ones off (Hey, don't blame me, I was under pressure).

Yeah, I suppose they weren't that good, but they were a clan with two 16XX psrs on Soulstealer and Hammerstorm.

Oh yeah, OMFG NEVER RUNED IT BAD ITEM MY PSR IS LOW BECAUSE I PLAY CHRONOS NOT ONE CLICK HERO YOU NOOB

roflnice<3you

Oh god, :plag: is sexy enough but :magm: too? Orgasmic! =D

[SilverStars]

Okay so today, I worked with my friends build. Though we lost (missed 3 chronosfields), the build seemed pretty effective as in our lane we got a total of 5 kills before level 6 (though my friend plays any character and got 4/5 of them with puppet). So before you jump, have 2 charges on curse of ages, hit twice, the stun will proc, then if teamate has disable, its probably a kill right there. Also, I didn't get rush EP, but I got shield then steamboots then EP. The regen problem didn't seem that bad due to the only necessary thing I did during the teamfights was leap, ult,ep then you either get genocide or genocided, and due to early ganking, the farm was still kept high. In games where I win with Chronos I end up with over 400 gpm anyways so I don't know anything about what losing gpm should be with Chronos. Could someone who's cool and is more knowledgeable at whats going on check out how they do with this?

Well, I'm not cool or knowledgeable but I'd advocate Rewind before Curse all the time. Yeah I suppose you could pick up one point in it early now, but really there isn't much point in 45 magic damage.

And as much as I disagree with Runed Axe, you certainly shouldn't go Elder first, because well, you're not meant to be a presence until your first big item. If you're looking for earlygame presence I'd probably go for Ghosts like kay` did, but I don't like his build and the OP's build works, even if I disagree with it.

Are you sure you're getting 400 gpm? I mean, on my good Chronos games I barely scrape 350 gpm. As far as I can see, your most recent Chronos games: 168 gpm, 160 gpm, 62 gpm, 81 gpm, 120 gpm (this game using Runed Axe-EP build), 126 gpm, and 154 gpm.

Personally, I used to go this exact build, but that's when I was rushing a shieldbreaker immediately after when it stacked with lifesteal, so yeah someone else can give an opinion.

[Thalien]

Curse is better than leveling up rewind.

[ObeseSheep]

Curse is better than leveling up rewind.

That's not always the case. If your getting harassed a crap load or ganked a crap load you'll need all the help you can get.

[ArrPirate]

Are you sure you're getting 400 gpm? I mean, on my good Chronos games I barely scrape 350 gpm. As far as I can see, your most recent Chronos games: 168 gpm, 160 gpm, 62 gpm, 81 gpm, 120 gpm (this game using Runed Axe-EP build), 126 gpm, and 154 gpm.



As I said it is in the games I win after 40 minute mark I usually end up with over 300 gold/min easily (thats when I come in and rape the other team), but other than that I lose other games. Thats just saying how bad I am (I rarely win), but if I DO win, its just a game of domination. (only exception was laning with a nymph after patch, heal+stun+my stun=gg)

[GregerMoek]

I must say that even if I am a pubnoob I usualy go for Runed Axe as Chronos, this works pretty well when I'm laning with a friend that knows how to support and get early kills off. Even more when I've got a mid ganker who comes visiting our lane every now and then to let me get more hero kills early.

The thing I like about Runed Axe is that when that item is finished usualy the other items seemingly pops out of nowhere and down into my inventory. Sometimes I get it after 24minutes and still it seems to help. I know it's really really late for an item like this but once I've started building something I usualy finish it even if unexpected things happen and slows the process down.
I know I'll be hearing some "Omg don't go RA if you are not 100% SURE you're gonna have it earlier" and I admit that's a valid point, sometimes I fail. :)

During the midgame phase I help out with ganks too, I am by no means not present in teamfights even if I need the farming. As I'm sitting in the forest or by the ancient creeps I get to the teamfight-spots quite quickly to help out. Landing a good ultimate is still a 3-4-5 sec aoe disable which most ranged nukers love. The jump is a nice slow too.

Regarding the boot discussion, I've only been in one situation where phased boots would have helped and that was when I failed with jumping and had a bunch of creeps in the way, luckily I had farmed enough to finish it off quickly and then kill (only) one before time was up and running for them again.

[ArrPirate]

Nevermind. I tried out my build and it gave decent results but nowhere near 300 gpm (though that game I had a ksing hag who got a quadkill off my beautiful ult). It seems that it was just out of my memory where I did wonders very late game with Chronos (they conceded on my hat trick) that I was able to pull such a thing off.

[monsterr]

i think i am going to start building enhanced marchers over steam boots on chronos, the higher mobility and more damage is very helpful, also i find myself in moments where i have to maneuver through units while in my ult to try to get to a target after i killed my first one, enhanced marchers would make this far easier.