Zephyr Competitive Discussion

[thewishkah]

Hi there,

as you know, Zephyr currently isn't a top tier competitive hero, largely due to the fact that he
-is farm dependant,
-easily gankable to prevent farming,
-contributes very little to team fights within the first 20-30 minutes of a game.
-His damage is also limited to his cyclones,
-his main method of tanking (wind shield) is easily countered (purge sword)

however, Zephyr appears to have some qualities which are a good place to start and keep him from being a terrible tier hero
-He can jungle early, effectively allowing for two solo lanes
-He has an amazing lane presence, a solid pusher, and potential for huge GPM
-Level 3 Ultimate is a huge factor in team fights, used to limited AtkSpeed of enemies, improve AtkSpeed of allies, and is great for chasing
-Leap is a useful ganking tool when used correctly, can push the enemy heroes back into creeps, other heroes, or foward into towers etc.

What do you think could be improved on Zephyr to make him more of a competitive hero?

Possbly (i think) a slightly higher str gain, or cyclone travel speed + uptime increase, a shorter cooldown on his abilities, or a passive buff to allies based on his cyclones? (ie 2% increased attack speed/ms for all allied units within a 600 unit range per cyclone or similar)

[fatrend1]

Make his ulti affected by SOTM and make it cover the map

[thewishkah]

Make his ulti affected by SOTM and make it cover the map

Thats actually not a bad idea, considering its current long cooldown

[Drasha]

Just make it cover the map with out being effected by stom >.>

[Llama]

I saw the idea that using his ulti automaticly gives him max cyclones. Would certainly be a step in the right direction. A more supportive buff like +AS in an AoE for every cyclone would be good too

[Drasha]

I would like to see leap put a snare on people it hits so he would be a better ganker.

[thewishkah]

I would like to see leap put a snare on people it hits so he would be a better ganker.

like a leap debuff where they lose ms and regain it over time or something? that would be cool, considering when you leap, they escape by the time Cyclones have caught up =[


I saw the idea that using his ulti automaticly gives him max cyclones. Would certainly be a step in the right direction.

definately, can't even count the number of times i've had to defend base with no cyclones. =\

[Legato]

if he got full cyclones after ulting it would be a drastic improvement to the hero

[Legato]

leap doesn't do much damage and has a very long cooldown for what it does

adding a movementspeed snare would be good

[Ruscour]

like a leap debuff where they lose ms and regain it over time or something? that would be cool, considering when you leap, they escape by the time Cyclones have caught up =[



definately, can't even count the number of times i've had to defend base with no cyclones. =\
twk has good ideas when he's not playing tree.

[noertti]

Make his cyclones teleport with him.

[daywalker3]

port cyclones with him and full cyclones on ult yeye

[Blaky039]

Also make his cyclones like puppet whiplash, over time he gets cyclones, or take out the expire time, ffs he's the master of the wind...

[Templar]

port cyclones with him and full cyclones on ult yeye
That would make Zephyr super awesome.

!support

[knallfrosch]

That would make Zephyr super imbalanced

no support

[Geo]

I saw the idea that using his ulti automaticly gives him max cyclones. Would certainly be a step in the right direction. A more supportive buff like +AS in an AoE for every cyclone would be good too

This. I love watching Zephyr work, and would really like to see more of him. He's a really cool hero. I enjoy watching my brother play him as it looks like a lot of fun.

[thewishkah]

This. I love watching Zephyr work, and would really like to see more of him. He's a really cool hero. I enjoy watching my brother play him as it looks like a lot of fun.

Honestly he is my favourite hero to play, it was a really good design intent with the cyclones, but currently they are too hard to maintain whilst participating in team fights (eg when both teams are about to clash just waiting for an initiation or whatever, your cyclones expire and your contribution is almost nullified)

[Mellow]

Zephyr is so boring, right click>kill people with magic damage

I also hate playing against him

[thewishkah]

Zephyr is so boring, right click>kill people with magic damage

I also hate playing against him

:( this is just to discuss his balance at a competitive level, not if you like or dislike the hero =[

[chu]

i like the ult idea, he def needs some kind of buff to be viable pick in comp

[HonGuy]

how about: his cyclones add a move speed debuff? This is my main frustration with zephyr, cant ever catch anyone!

[Banished]

Change leap to Ride the Winds:

Reduce damage on leap to 40/80/120/160
Cause it to spawn 1/2/3/4 Cyclones on use.
Force all current Cyclones to ATTACH to Zephyr when he does the leap animation.
Cause all hit units to be slowed by 8/16/24/32%

(This still deals heavy damage as the Cyclones pass over units with you)

When you consume the whirlwinds, cause it to remove 1 second from all of your skills cooldowns per Cyclone in addition to the healing.

Wind Control: Cause this to be Map Wide and create 1/2/3 Cyclones on use.

[liq3]

How about cyclones heal him when they expire? So if you had 8 up you kill a creep, you get healed for 50 hp and 25 mana, and the oldest's cyclones timer is reset to 0.

[thewishkah]

How about cyclones heal him when they expire? So if you had 8 up you kill a creep, you get healed for 50 hp and 25 mana, and the oldest's cyclones timer is reset to 0.

think this would be too much towards mid/late game.

Imagine 8 cyc's as you skip a creep wave to be like a 300hp/150 mana + 300 gold in the 2 seconds it takes you to kill the creep wave.

I do like the heal if they expire (not heal on extra last hit) but i dont think thats currently the biggest issue keeping zephyr out of being a mid / higher range hero.

If cyclones came with you after a leap (as above) it would certainly make leap more effective.

A mapwide ulti seems ok too, considering it's short duration/long cooldown.

[ma5]

When I TP to not lose my cyclones? It's basically forcing him to ignore the team and farm as much as possible.

[Xasz]

Change leap to Ride the Winds:

Reduce damage on leap to 40/80/120/160
Cause it to spawn 1/2/3/4 Cyclones on use.
Force all current Cyclones to ATTACH to Zephyr when he does the leap animation.
Cause all hit units to be slowed by 8/16/24/32%


(This still deals heavy damage as the Cyclones pass over units with you)

When you consume the whirlwinds, cause it to remove 1 second from all of your skills cooldowns per Cyclone in addition to the healing.

Wind Control: Cause this to be Map Wide and create 1/2/3 Cyclones on use.


t-up for this! Would be a strong buff to the hero and make him a great pick.

[Ruscour]

1. Give his leap a slow, as in Chronos's time leap.
2. Make the health gained from each cyclone percentage based so it's more useful late game.
3. Make his ult consume all current cyclones and give him as many cyclones as his current level of cyclone can allow for.

[Mellow]

:( this is just to discuss his balance at a competitive level, not if you like or dislike the hero =[
Yeah yeah, it was more of a response to the previous 2 posts who said that he was their favorite hero and they love seeing people play him

Which I absolutely cannot understand

[Mex]

how about a wind shield passive? too strong?

[Mellow]

how about a wind shield passive? too strong?
It would greatly improve his viability in higher play because people can?t counter with nullfire, while not making him stronger in pubs because pubs never get nullfire to counter things anyway.

I like it.

[ma5]

Or rather buff it to 30% avoid since it is counterable by nullfire.

[Envor]

Allow wind shield to be casted on allies and enemies

When casted on allies gives them the passive +1/2/3/4 ciclones

When on enemy slows his mov, atk and cast speed, also casts ciclones.

Ciclones are created at target (be it friend or foe), after created they move to Zephyr, while they fly back, they will hit original target (enemy) and anything in line (this gives disable and nuke)

Yes it's OP

[ma5]

Make cyclones not be able to move more than 300 units away from Zephyr.
This rids the issue of losing tornados when TPing or leaping forward only to deal 0 DPS because your cyclones lag behind.

Cyclones heal 5% health and 5% mana per cyclone consumed.
As said before, makes them scale better late game. A solid 40% health and 40% mana makes it worth sucking up tornadoes.

Wind Shield has a 20/30/40/50% chance to reflect projectiles.
Since it makes more sense that a shield of wind would only reflect projectiles, why not take away the melee evasion. This makes Zephyr a more situational pick, he is better against teams that have a ranged carry or more ranged heroes, also with ranged spells that can be reflected. This also makes it better for him to get Bfly, without suffering diminishing returns as dramatically.

Casting ulti gives Zephyr full tornadoes.
Make him not useless when just getting into a fight. Saying "Brb, gotta go grab cyclones in jungle" before a battle is game deciding and makes this hero a complete joke when it comes to competitive play.

[Hippie]

I really think if they just improved cyclone following through leap and added the full cyclones on ult thing he'd be great. His biggest issue right now is not having cyclonces after he gets ganked and being forced to farm until he gets more.

[thewishkah]

Make cyclones not be able to move more than 300 units away from Zephyr.
This rids the issue of losing tornados when TPing or leaping forward only to deal 0 DPS because your cyclones lag behind.

Cyclones heal 5% health and 5% mana per cyclone consumed.
As said before, makes them scale better late game. A solid 40% health and 40% mana makes it worth sucking up tornadoes.


Casting ulti gives Zephyr full tornadoes.
Make him not useless when just getting into a fight. Saying "Brb, gotta go grab cyclones in jungle" before a battle is game deciding and makes this hero a complete joke when it comes to competitive play.

liking this

[Wolfsong]

Cyclones heal 5% health and 5% mana per cyclone consumed.
As said before, makes them scale better late game. A solid 40% health and 40% mana makes it worth sucking up tornadoes.



Others are Ok, but implementing the above is going to make Zephyr way too OP.

[Sw4n]

full cyclones when you cast your ult is a real good idea

[thewishkah]

full cyclones when you cast your ult is a real good idea

would it be enough to make zephyr atleast a mid tier competitive hero though?

He still would require a large amount of farm before he becomes useful, meaning his team effectively 4v5's for a long time

[Wolfsong]

would it be enough to make zephyr atleast a mid tier competitive hero though?

He still would require a large amount of farm before he becomes useful, meaning his team effectively 4v5's for a long time

Zephyr can actually start helping the team when he farms a helm of black legion, which is usually within 12 mins. Blink ulti and attack-move with cyclones can contribute a lot to the team.

Sand wraith also requires a large amount of farm before he becomes useful, but he's considered a top ban/pick.

The only problem with Zephyr is that his 3rd skill is not passive, but active and purgeable. Make it passive can solve his problem imo.

[_Archangel_]

Zephyr can actually start helping the team when he farms a helm of black legion, which is usually within 12 mins. Blink ulti and attack-move with cyclones can contribute a lot to the team.

Sand wraith also requires a large amount of farm before he becomes useful, but he's considered a top ban/pick.

The only problem with Zephyr is that his 3rd skill is not passive, but active and purgeable. Make it passive can solve his problem imo.

Even if the third skill was passive I still wouldn't pick Zephyr... :\

[thewishkah]

Even if the third skill was passive I still wouldn't pick Zephyr... :\

what would it take for you to want zephyr on your team?

[FiNGERS]

Change leap to Ride the Winds:

Reduce damage on leap to 40/80/120/160
Cause it to spawn 1/2/3/4 Cyclones on use.
Force all current Cyclones to ATTACH to Zephyr when he does the leap animation.
Cause all hit units to be slowed by 8/16/24/32%

(This still deals heavy damage as the Cyclones pass over units with you)

When you consume the whirlwinds, cause it to remove 1 second from all of your skills cooldowns per Cyclone in addition to the healing.

Wind Control: Cause this to be Map Wide and create 1/2/3 Cyclones on use.

Good ideas! Hopefully S2 will see this.

[Need]

if he got full cyclones after ulting it would be a drastic improvement to the hero

This times 1000

[Llama]

Imagine that. On ulti zephyr gets 8000 cyclones!

:D

It does need to happen though

[shivz]

agree with tornados on ulti maby something like 4/6/8
and slow on leap like chronos

but kotf needs a buff too, but S2 doesnt seem to care much :<

[Nzzdlz]

Increase duratio of cyclones or make a mechanism to spawn cyclons will make him more useful in team cause actually when the other team is pushing, if you wanna def you won't have any cyclone...that's a part of the problem to me.

And I vouch the idea of the map cover by ulti

[Wolfsong]

Even if the third skill was passive I still wouldn't pick Zephyr... :\

If it becomes passive, zephyr will become a hard counter to range dps heroes such as arachna and puppet and imo can become a situational competitive pick.

[thewishkah]

bump =\

[Butterfinger]

Leap
-Push enemies aside effect
+AoE slow effect (such as Chronos's Time Leap)

-20/ 19/ 18/ 17 second cooldown scale
+18/ 16/ 14/ 10 second cooldown scale

Cyclones
-50 second cyclone duration
+60 second cyclone duration

-On kill effect required to spawn cyclones
+On attack effect to spawn cyclones (Such as Puppet's Whiplash)

-Cyclone following and patrolling Zephyr effect
+Cyclones follow Zephyr in a fixed location

Wind Shield
-Duration
+Make this a passive ability

Wind Control
-Remove the AoE effect
+Make this affect all heroes on the map

[thewishkah]

^ nice

[Butterfinger]

Yeah I figured that would make Zephyr much more playable and balanced in the top tier hero picks. Hes just not very playable except in the average pub, where even then it is hard because the infamous "brb need more wind" before a team fight occurs.

[Pandabro]

Seems like a lot of the issue with him stems from Cyclones and the fact that they are:

- Triggered by kills
- Lost easily (Short duration and follow very slowly)

Making them spawn on ultimate is a decent fix but it feels like we have enough blink/leap in and ultimate heroes already. I would suggest making the duration increase drastically by level (about double at max level).

Or

Make them spawn on 'X' amount of attacks or on a proc (perhaps every time a skill is reflected with Wind Shield?). This way they can be gathered in team fights rather than just killing creeps.

I think a slow on leap would be a good addition as well, but I think the main problem stems from Cyclone being such a poor ability for anything but farming.

[sAnGy1]

Also sucks when you have to tp into a fight and all your cyclones have disappeared, making you pretty much useless.

[Proph3t1]

Rework Cyclones and just turn it into an active skill like Demon Hunter's Immolation in WC3. Make it drain a decent amount of mana while upping the damage. Makes Zephyer a tank that isn't totally useless.