Tablet of Command (solving the real problem)

[sieneh]

Currently, Tablet of Command isn't used a lot because:

A) It costs too much, the cost of 2040 is 110 gold less than Portal Key
B) Its not easy to use and takes practice
C) It offers a lot to many heroes, yet because of its price, other items are prioritized, again, people don't have a lot of practice with it and thats why it isn't bought often, which brings us back to A.

A simple solution to the whole Tablet of Command problem is: Cut down the cost.


Current recipe

http://i38.tinypic.com/2upwcaf.jpg
+
http://i36.tinypic.com/2d59a8.jpg

+

http://i38.tinypic.com/ofvxad.jpg

=

http://i35.tinypic.com/w0n86t.jpg

All this compared to Portal Key, which is a lot more foolproof and doesn't require any real practice, as well as being useful on just about any hero.
I propose we make a cost cutting adjustment of 500, by removing the recipe in the initial stage and adding upgradeable recipes to further improve the usefulness of the tablet and viability.

Combined suggestion(Cypherz+mine)

Cypherz' suggestion for the Tablet of Command of making it upgradeable while lowering the cost:


http://i35.tinypic.com/w0n86t.jpgTablet of Command (base item)(with my proposed changes)
+6 Strength
+6 Agility
+16 Intelligence
+500 Push Clicky
Total cost: 1540
+
http://i35.tinypic.com/w0n86t.jpgTablet of Command (first upgrade)
+8 Strength
+8 Agility
+18 Intelligence
+575 Push Clicky
Total cost: 2040, Upgrade Cost: 500

+

http://i35.tinypic.com/w0n86t.jpgTablet of Command (second upgrade)
+10 Strenght
+10 Agility
+20 Intelligence
+650 Push Clicky
Total cost: 2540 Upgrade Cost: 500

More proposed changes:

I personally think the cast range(which is currently 800 units) should remain the same throughout the upgrade process should remain the same as it might become overpowered otherwise and too much of a harassment tool, any ideas on this?

Summary

This cuts the initial cost down by 500ish, it offers some survivability, mana pool and some agility.

The Tablet needs some love, while I do love using it, I very rarely get it because it simply costs too much for the small benefit it gives.
If it was 500-600 gold less, I would get it regularly and I believe others might start using it as well.
I like the current state of the tablet, but I feel it can be improved further :)

Any and all feedback is appreciated as long as it is constructive.

[krucifix]

I see nothing wrong with this.

I believe the shrunken head would be countered too easy with this, as it's too cheap at this point. It would make this a cheaper interrupter than an aid. How can we solve this? hehehe...

Get the upgrade for push in there IMO ;)

[sieneh]

I believe the shrunken head would be countered too easy with this, as it's too cheap at this point.

Get the upgrade in there and you got my vote ;)

Lets merge em then :p

Edit: Done. :)

[Johnny]

+1 Support.
My friend was using this it looked like fun but it's just to expensive.

Lets merge em then :p

Hell if you got 5 votes in a few minutes, I want to see where it goes before we merge them.

Post it as a "potential side idea" before you merge it.

IMO, extend the poll time.

[sieneh]

IMO, extend the poll time.

I think a year(18-11-2010) is enough? ^^

I think a year(18-11-2010) is enough? ^^

How about never ending ;)

edit: and don't write it as officially implemented into the main concept, just ask for feedback first IMO.

BAMP.

[sieneh]

Can the person who voted no, please explain the reasoning and give some feedback on what should be changed in his opinion?

[ouTPut`]

Can the person who voted no, please explain the reasoning and give some feedback on what should be changed in his opinion?


Certainly.

Your messing with a niche item, that has small uses and are not very common as people don't feel the need to use it. It's like Void Talisman. It has great potential against certain heroes, but again people tend to go for other items that proofs to be a slightly better benefit for their Hero. My opinion on this is that public players don't teamplay very well, and don't think of how much havoc Void Talisman can cause to psychical damagers.

It's a very, very situational item and should stay that way. There is no need to make it pumped because it is not used a lot. Just because something is not a common item doesn't mean it needs rework, nor improvements. Some items are here for certain situations where it can bring great benefit to that specific games, and some items are all-around high usage items.

Secondly the upgrade part is just plain wrong. You could just aswell boost Void Talisman to make it last 5-6-7 seconds, because it's not used a lot. But that wouldn't "fix" it because it is, a situational item.

So there you go, my reasoning behind disagreeing with the suggested changes to Tablet of Command.

[high61]

Tablet is nice but too expensive for what you get. It either needs to be a lot cheaper or a lot stronger (larger push). 500 units isn't all that much.

[sieneh]

Certainly.

Your messing with a niche item, that has small uses and are not very common as people don't feel the need to use it. It's like Void Talisman. It has great potential against certain heroes, but again people tend to go for other items that proofs to be a slightly better benefit for their Hero. My opinion on this is that public players don't teamplay very well, and don't think of how much havoc Void Talisman can cause to psychical damagers.

I realize it is a niche item, gotten very rarely, in fact I think I'm in the minority when I say I get it when there is need for it.
It fulfills a niche role(just like you said) but it costs too much, its an expensive "toy", I'd like to expand that niche role just a little by increasing its viability and by decreasing its cost.

In a way, this reminds me Harkon's Blade.

I feel it would benefit the gameplay by making it vary somewhat(which is more or less "standardized" at this point) and the item itself a lot.



It's a very, very situational item and should stay that way. There is no need to make it pumped because it is not used a lot. Just because something is not a common item doesn't mean it needs rework, nor improvements. Some items are here for certain situations where it can bring great benefit to that specific games, and some items are all-around high usage items.

I agree that its a situational item, I want it to stay that way, but I'd like to see it used just a bit more often, the potential uses are (almost) limitless, but the problem is, its not used enough, because its rivaled by item(s) that are much easier to use(Portal key) and more useful "in general".

I think that in the last ~50 games, I got it twice, once when the match was completely over and I pushed a buddy into their fountain as we were destroying the throne(lol) and the other time because we really needed it(Tempest got a BKB)



Secondly the upgrade part is just plain wrong. You could just aswell boost Void Talisman to make it last 5-6-7 seconds, because it's not used a lot. But that wouldn't "fix" it because it is, a situational item.

Why do you disagree with the push distance though?
I feel its pretty useful, as 500-650 units is pretty nice when someone is getting chased.(might get him out of range for that possibly fatal ranged attack or nuke)
It just offers some slight bonuses for 300 gold, I think thats pretty reasonable.



So there you go, my reasoning behind disagreeing with the suggested changes to Tablet of Command.

Thanks for posting, I hope you give it another thought and think about what I wrote :)


Tablet is nice but too expensive for what you get. It either needs to be a lot cheaper or a lot stronger (larger push). 500 units isn't all that much.

If you check the 2nd part of the suggestion, it deals with increasing the push distance(while the push range should stay the same) via upgrades.

[sieneh]

Woot, 30 yes votes and 2 no votes, only one explained though...

33 in a few days, not too bad.

[sieneh]

Looking good.

[sieneh]

bump

[ManoBomb]

Currently i can see Tablet of Command used in 2 ways:

1. Most imba item against Tempest ulti, since you can use it while in it, and push yourself or other out of it!

2. Most fun item! Have a hillarius game while sacrificing your friends into the enemy!

[Vanarchy]

Your suggestion is fine, but personnaly I think it won't make a big change about the underused state of the Tablet. Seeing it as a component for another item would make it more interesting.

[sieneh]

Your suggestion is fine, but personnaly I think it won't make a big change about the underused state of the Tablet. Seeing it as a component for another item would make it more interesting.

I think it will boost it at least a little bit, because it won't be hard to farm.

The components are not really expensive and you can get it very very fast, while for a portal key, you have to farm constantly for one item and any deaths will set you back considerably.
Farming a tablet is easier even in its current form, but its still too much invested vs not enough gained.

At least the lower cost should encourage people to TRY it out, currently, it costs too much to even try it out, its an expensive item to screw around with if you have no idea what you're doing.

Though I really have no idea on which item this could be included as it is rather unique.
Maybe if they incorporate some other suggested items so that it makes sense...

[Vanarchy]

Actually recipe "Portal Key + Tablet = PorTablet" could work. Something like "activate: Teleport self to target position (1200 max range), enemies in 500 AoE (Tablet's push range) are pushed to you. Manacost: 100 (75 + 25 from components), Cooldown: 15 seconds, 3 seconds cooldown after taking damage from player controlled units".

Actually recipe "Portal Key + Tablet = PorTablet" could work. Something like "activate: Teleport self to target position (1200 max range), enemies in 500 AoE (Tablet's push range) are pushed to you. Manacost: 100 (75 + 25 from components), Cooldown: 15 seconds, 3 seconds cooldown after taking damage from player controlled units".

Sounds too cheap.

[sieneh]

bump ;p

[ZombieFewd]

Tablet is an item I absolutely love on many heroes, not all of them Intelligence, for its offensive and defensive applications. I would like to have the cost of the item lowered though, because it is a semi-major investment that can delay other core items for suvivability.

[sieneh]

Tablet is an item I absolutely love on many heroes, not all of them Intelligence, for its offensive and defensive applications. I would like to have the cost of the item lowered though, because it is a semi-major investment that can delay other core items for suvivability.

Completely agree and this suggestion specifically solves that main problem :)

[acojan]

ohmygod YES !
Please please ! Its one of the items that has such a good concept but is never really bought. Pleaseee S2 implement !

[RTBardic]

Voted yes, though I'm a bigger fan of the price decrease than the upgrades. Both ideas are good ones in the end -- this item is woefully underused and IMO should NOT be as expensive as portkey.

[JohnnySmash]

Hmm I like the tablet, but I don't want to needlessly nerf heroes with channeling abilities. So I'm kinda on the fence.

[Danielvutran]

I voted yes, because you reminded me to try this item at least once. LOL. I still haven't used it yet.

[DrScrotum]

Yes to a lower price but definitly no to upgrades.

I mean 2250gold a dagger with stats and more versatility meh... Even if the range is a bit lower it is too much benefits there.

[xdayum]

I love using the tablet to save my life, or cancelling ulti's like tempest.

The combination concept is a great idea, making it upgradeable to how much you want to, instead of 1 steep price that can delay your core items.

But I feel as if this does work out, it would be so easy to destroy heroes that channel, it may be a huge nerf that we wouldn't want. T-up anyways. Maybe make the last upgrade a SMALL AoE push as an incentive. lol jk

[Mittsies]

Your suggestion makes it more viable, and combined with allowing it to upgrade makes it extremely viable. T-UP.

[sieneh]

I think that this could(should) be tweaked if it happens to be too "powerful"(counter-wise) and could increase the cooldown as the upgrade levels go for example(or just place a higher starting cooldown).

For example, level 1 would be 35 seconds(instead of 25), while level 3 would be 25.

I think thats a better alternative than having it go from 25->35(counterproductive imo)

[sieneh]

bump ^^

[Tripwyr]

Tablet of Command isn't intended to be a Portal Key alternative. It fills it's own role.

Tablet of Command isn't intended to be a Portal Key alternative. It fills it's own role.
One's role is decided by the mind. We are voicing ours.


I think thats a better alternative than having it go from 25->35(counterproductive imo)This is actually a pretty good reason IMO to kill the initial item so people will consider upgrading on the BKB killer part.

This idea gets approval from me.
Seineh, wouldn't you agree?

[Blaky039]

Do it.

[Zakharov]

I agree with reducing the price, but disagree with the upgrade. Tablet of Command isn't an item that needs to be upgradeable, allowing upgrades just adds unnecessary complexity.

[Tripwyr]

One's role is decided by the mind. We are voicing ours.

If you think that Tablet of Command acts as a Portal Key replacement, I would like to request a match. I could use some free wins.

[sieneh]

If you think that Tablet of Command acts as a Portal Key replacement, I would like to request a match. I could use some free wins.

It doesn't act like like a replacement for the Portal Key, but it can be used in a similar fashion.

[NyRe]

Certainly.

Your messing with a niche item, that has small uses and are not very common as people don't feel the need to use it. It's like Void Talisman. It has great potential against certain heroes, but again people tend to go for other items that proofs to be a slightly better benefit for their Hero. My opinion on this is that public players don't teamplay very well, and don't think of how much havoc Void Talisman can cause to psychical damagers.

It's a very, very situational item and should stay that way. There is no need to make it pumped because it is not used a lot. Just because something is not a common item doesn't mean it needs rework, nor improvements. Some items are here for certain situations where it can bring great benefit to that specific games, and some items are all-around high usage items.

Secondly the upgrade part is just plain wrong. You could just aswell boost Void Talisman to make it last 5-6-7 seconds, because it's not used a lot. But that wouldn't "fix" it because it is, a situational item.

So there you go, my reasoning behind disagreeing with the suggested changes to Tablet of Command.

Actually, it's exactly the opposite. Tablet of Command is not a situational item. It's useful in very very many ways, but everything it does, it does weak. It's not a DPS item even though it has DPS in it. It's not a mana item, even though it has Int in it. It can be used as an escape, but due to the fact that the range is very small and it destroys trees it doesn't excel at that. It can be used to break channeling, but it's not a disable and getting it just for that purpose doesn't justify it's cost. It can be used to disjoint but due to the requirement to click on self it's not a good one because you waste time to aim the click. It can be used to chase, but a Portal Key would be infinitely better. It can kill trees to counter jukes but well that doesn't happen often. It can be used to speed up jungling due to the same tree destruction but a Logger's Axe does better. It can be used for surprise buttsecksing your lane enemy by bringing them closer to you, but the push range is bad/it's easy to miss and it's too expensive to build in lane.

It's not a situational item because there's no situation it excels in. It is a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-nothing kind of item that lacks a clear purpose, and that's it's main problem. You have no clear reason to build it, there's no hero in the game that can say "Yes I would get stronger from all of it's uses". It's something that everyone would want to have if it was less expensive, but you never know if it's worth the money.

I don't believe that making it upgradeable will solve the problem. The problem is definetely there but that's not a solution. Boosting the range is a nice idea, but it's counter-productive as an upgradeable, those kind of items usually have a high upgrade cost with high returns, why should I return to the fountain to spend 300 gold more? The only exception is Nullfire Blade, it's cheap to grade, but it's unique in the regard that it replenishes the charges. Imo the way to make this item better would be to get rid of the conflicting bonuses (maybe a Puppet Master would enjoy all the three, but he doesn't need the push part much, and I can't think of any other hero that would like to have everything on this item) and make it cheaper. Make this item more specialized.

[sieneh]

.
I don't believe that making it upgradeable will solve the problem. The problem is definetely there but that's not a solution. Boosting the range is a nice idea, but it's counter-productive as an upgradeable, those kind of items usually have a high upgrade cost with high returns, why should I return to the fountain to spend 300 gold more? The only exception is Nullfire Blade, it's cheap to grade, but it's unique in the regard that it replenishes the charges. Imo the way to make this item better would be to get rid of the conflicting bonuses (maybe a Puppet Master would enjoy all the three, but he doesn't need the push part much, and I can't think of any other hero that would like to have everything on this item) and make it cheaper. Make this item more specialized.

Well, for 300 gold, you would get +2 int, +1(or 2) damage + attack speed and 75 push range, I think thats certainly worth the price, besides, you can buy it at any point, you don't HAVE to have it upgraded right away, in the worst case scenario, you can have your courier fly it to you.

The main problem is that it costs way too much, while excelling at nothing, its an item that has A LOT of uses, but like you said, there are better alternatives to almost everything you have on it, for the equal(and a lot more foolproof) amount of money.

Making it cost less would be a good step in making it more popular, since it offers a cheaper alternative to some specialized items.
Currently it only offers an alternative that costs equally if not more when compared to some specialized items.

[NyRe]

No, the thing about the upgradeability is that you really cannot afford the item right away so you purchase half of it's use now, half later. That's riftshards (although imo due to being a very late-game item it kinda failed the concept, it's usually still purchased whole), that's Puzzlebox, that's Codex. Cheap base, expensive upgrade. 300 gold per upgrade is, well, not within the concept. It creates much unneeded hassle without actually providing any scaling. Anyone would want your item to be lvl 3 right now. Cheap upgrading generally leads to more clicks and nothing else, 300 gold is not something you would bleed to farm. I'm not talking about the upgrade being cost-effective (it surely is), I'm talking about cheap upgrading as a counter-productive concept in general.

And it still doesn't solve it's main problem - there are very few characters who make use of all the stats on it. Upgrading the range seems like a nice start though.

You seem to be struggling between making it cheaper and making it better. Imo you should either decide on the question or make the upgrade more expensive and more effective. Like only upgrading it once for 600-700 gold, but for a better effect.

Another solution would be remaking it's stat bonus. The number of character that need it's stats are very few. During the laning phase, you generally want to lasthit better or harass better, rarely you would want to invest a lot of gold into both because you also want to survive. AS is wasted early on, especially in such a puny amount. No survivability. Int heroes generally babysit and don't need damage/as, but need the Int. Str heroes might need damage, but unless they are very cast-heavy, they need Str more than Int. Agi characters typically need some HP stacking much more than early Int and would prefer Agi instead of raw damage to last hit. These stats are just not good enough for the price.

[sieneh]

No, the thing about the upgradeability is that you really cannot afford the item right away so you purchase half of it's use now, half later. That's riftshards (although imo due to being a very late-game item it kinda failed the concept, it's usually still purchased whole), that's Puzzlebox, that's Codex.

Ok, I mainly misunderstood your initial post.



Cheap base, expensive upgrade. 300 gold per upgrade is, well, not within the concept. It creates much unneeded hassle without actually providing any scaling. Anyone would want your item to be lvl 3 right now. Cheap upgrading generally leads to more clicks and nothing else, 300 gold is not something you would bleed to farm. I'm not talking about the upgrade being cost-effective (it surely is), I'm talking about cheap upgrading as a counter-productive concept in general.

Well, I can't see how to make any real modification to the tablet without completely remaking it the build process, which is probably a hassle and an annoyance to the dev team.
But if you have some suggestions, feel free to post em and if I agree with them, I'll modify the initial post :)

And it still doesn't solve it's main problem - there are very few characters who make use of all the stats on it. Upgrading the range seems like a nice start though.



You seem to be struggling between making it cheaper and making it better. Imo you should either decide on the question or make the upgrade more expensive and more effective. Like only upgrading it once for 600-700 gold, but for a better effect.

Hm, thats not a bad idea about the upgrading process being 600-700 in "one go", as opposed to 2 small upgrades.



Another solution would be remaking it's stat bonus. The number of character that need it's stats are very few. During the laning phase, you generally want to lasthit better or harass better, rarely you would want to invest a lot of gold into both because you also want to survive. AS is wasted early on, especially in such a puny amount. No survivability. Int heroes generally babysit and don't need damage/as, but need the Int. Str heroes might need damage, but unless they are very cast-heavy, they need Str more than Int. Agi characters typically need some HP stacking much more than early Int and would prefer Agi instead of raw damage to last hit. These stats are just not good enough for the price.

Well, it has more to the with the whole design of the Tablet/Pushstaff, I wouldn't tinker with that too much..

Its a jack-of-all-trades/master of none thing,, which is one of the(as strange as it sounds) I like about it.

Though there are a lot of things just "thrown" in there for the sake of it, maybe the AS could be changed with say, +5 MS or even better, +casting speed?

+Casting speed would go a long way for a lot of int heroes and there are very few items that give +cast speed, which would just further improve the "niche" part of the item.


Anyways, would appreciate some feedback on the +casting speed and how much would you guys feel its reasonable(I'm thinking 10-20 in total)

[NyRe]

Well, it has more to the with the whole design of the Tablet/Pushstaff, I wouldn't tinker with that too much..

I wouldn't care about that too much. Maybe it's careful design, and maybe it's just because in DotA it's not a Tablet, but is instead a Force Staff and thus has another Staff (Quarterstaff) as it's ingredient =) Imo scrap Steamstaff as an ingredient entirely, it's kind of illogical and not very useful.

[sieneh]

I wouldn't care about that too much. Maybe it's careful design, and maybe it's just because in DotA it's not a Tablet, but is instead a Force Staff and thus has another Staff (Quarterstaff) as it's ingredient =) Imo scrap Steamstaff as an ingredient entirely, it's kind of illogical and not very useful.

What about book, sobi mask and recipe?

That would keep the price more or less the same, though the tablet would look like this:

+11-12 int(+2 per upgrade)
+60% mana regen(goes up to 100% mana regen, with upgrades, 20% per upgrade)
+10 cast speed(goes up to 15-20 cast speed, with upgrades,+5 per upgrade)
Push/cast range remains the same.(500->650 with upgrades, 800 cast range range)

[Minty]

Gotta say I like it. Tablet is very underused, and is incredibly helpful if you know how to use it.

[zellogs]

I really like tablet, it's a very unique item it terms of what it can accomplish in good hands. I agree with your changes and I would definitely give it some more use if these changes were implemented.

[elongated]

i agree that tablet is underused and a niceh item, i also agree with NyRe that its counter productive as upgradeable (also the staff is not that great a benifit) if your going to remake the item which i def think they should (coz i also love this item but rarely get it because of its cost)
dont upgrade counter productive
either make it 2* plus three intel item (i pref this to +6 intel item)
+ 900 staff
+ 300 recipe
(with this you could buy the recipe initally with the 2 intel items and get the staff from the out post making it a plausable early game item)
or remake the item further keep the active the same and remake the components

any way just my 2cents worth
only hero i get it on most of the time is pharoh, synergies so well with spells for suprise butsex. lolz

i would be very intrested in what other heros people use it with and its uses (i also used to get it on enchantress in dota for ulti push extra damage) but that hero isnt in hon.

please respond to what heros you use it with and its uses (spare the obvious ones usefull on every hero)
i didnt vote because dont believe this item should be upgradeable but definatly needs to be changed.
but still good post ;) GO the tablet users

[sieneh]

If I remake it with book/scarab+recipe, so that it gives extra cast speed, I can see how this could be useful on just about every int hero that has a (small or long) delay on their spells.

Torturer, Pyro come to mind for the +cast speed.
For +int/regen, theres plenty of strength and int heroes that would benefit from this+push power.

Jera, Accursed, Tiny, Behe, Panda, Devourer, Elec are on my list from the top of my head...

Jera for the mana+regen, Accursed for the mana+regen(though I think Nome's would work better still) and a potential disable.
Tiny for the +mana/regen+catching up(tablet -> throw enemy back).
Behe for the +mana/regen and a poor mans "portal key", though the uses would be somewhat limited compared to it.
Devoure, because he is initially slower than most heroes, his mana pool is terrible as well.
Panda for his flick/catching up(and another pseudo disable).
Elec so he can push himself and catch up to a hero with his grip...

[m0ns00n]

I support this very much. It looks well thought out, including a diagnosis and reasonable solution!

[sieneh]

Would appreciate some more feedback on the book/scarab thing, I think this might give a definite "role" to the Tablet(as well as being an "original" HoN item) and it will stop it from being a stack of different things that no real hero can use with great effect.

It would still retain its usability though :)

Edit: Modified the first page

[Ceros]

I like this Idea. good change I liked the original dota force staff. my only problem was that the push was just shy of wut I liked using it for.

But upgrading it. fixes the problem. Id totally buy it. thumbs up!

however it gave invoker an intresting combo i liked.+ an extra survival trick that costed alot less then his ghost walk. id likely still buy the tablet if invoker was in the game. nothing better then makin an enemy hero get pushed into an icewall while u and a partner beat him to death.

and say brood is on you. face the nearest cliff ledge. or tree line and force push urself to get outta his slow.

[mski`Kaji]

Definitely a yes. This item is so misunderstood.

[Gibbonbyte]

Tablet is just bad, either buff it or remove

[NyRe]

1.60. Steamstaff gone. I feel good =)

Shall we call this a victory brah?

Kinda cool to have the item based around stats now, but WTB upgradables :P

[sieneh]

This certainly makes it look a bit more viable, the stat boost is certainly a step in the right direction :)

WTB upgradeable though ^^

This certainly makes it look a bit more viable, the stat boost is certainly a step in the right direction :)

WTB upgradeable though ^^

i recommend you update the original post to reflect more accurate game stats.

[sieneh]

i recommend you update the original post to reflect more accurate game stats.

Added the new part, let me know what you think :)

[Vanarchy]

A) It costs too much, the cost of 2040 is 10 gold less than Portal Key

Portal Key costs 2150, so the diffirence is 110, fix the number. :)

After the 0.1.60 patch the recipe costs 500 gold, so I suggest setting the upgrade cost to 500 as well, also increasing the stats you gain from the upgrading.

After upgraded once (2040 + 500 = 2540 total cost):

9 STR
9 AGI
19 INT
Pushes 625 distance.


After upgraded second time (2540 + 500 = 3040 total cost):

12 STR
12 AGI
22 INT
Pushes 750 distance.

[sieneh]

Portal Key costs 2150, so the diffirence is 110, fix the number. :)

Ugh, my bad @ the cost part. ><



After the 0.1.60 patch the recipe costs 500 gold, so I suggest setting the upgrade cost to 500 as well, also increasing the stats you gain from the upgrading.

I saw, thats why I changed the initial post, I think cutting the recipe in the initial build would go a long way, though I'll increase the recipe cost and tweak the numbers a bit imo.



After upgraded once (2040 + 500 = 2540 total cost):

9 STR
9 AGI
19 INT
Pushes 625 distance.


After upgraded second time (2540 + 500 = 3040 total cost):

12 STR
12 AGI
22 INT
Pushes 750 distance.


I wanted to actually remove the initial (recipe) cost, I think +3 to abilities is ok if the recipe cost is increased, but the +125 push distance is too much, 750 push distance with 800 cast range seems to be imo :)

Lets see what the others think, if they support that, I'll update the first page :)

I'm actually in support of that new upgrade system. Fix the upgrade costs though >_>

[sieneh]

done :p

[sieneh]

bump :p

[NullDragon]

I voted no, mainly because I think people view it as something that they're supposed to use on itself. You compared it to a portal key, for example.

Currently it can be used as a portal key with a lowered range, yes. It however has no 3 second cooldown if you're damaged with it, and it can be USED ON OTHER PEOPLE. Including enemies. A support could use it as a portal key for a friendly tempest/legionnaire/tree with the other person spending their 2K for other items.

Other uses include again, as support, leaping someone trying to leave before they get ganked. That 500 distance, while seemingly not much, would put them out of range of EVERY heros attack distance as long as you're at least 100 units away. This can be almost as good as a heal, saving someone by getting them enough out of the way so that if they chase to finish off the allied hero, they die as well.

A third usage is simply screwing up your enemies positioning, and helping your own. See a pesky support guy in the back healing your enemies? Give him a push towards your group so that your allies can gank him. Battle in the mid, both side are too far away to engage? Use the 800 range of the item to bump someone on the edges to a paltry 300 away from you, able to be chaincasted by your nukers for an easy kill. Someone about to get away from your enemies? Bump a chasing ally in front of them, blocking their path.

I'd vote yes for this, if I saw people actually TRYING to use this instead of just repeating what everyone else says to them. Never in a game have I seen someone on the enemy team use this item. And it's sad when I get the item that there is almost invariably people on the other team confused as to why they suddenly hopped into the middle of my entire team to their death for no apparent reason.

[sieneh]

The recent change has affected the usage of Tablet decently I think, I didn't feel money being a problem anyway, the stat boost is decent for survival and gives some mana too.

Overall, the improvement is greatly appreciated :)

[sieneh]

Livin', lovin' I'm on the run, tha tablet needsssssss (a bit of) love :p

[sieneh]

I have to admit that the new reworked tablet is nicer, easier to acquire and overall better than it was before the changes.

I've gotten it in the last couple of games and it worked very well, the added stats were very noticeable :)

[Rinsaku]

Sure
+1

[sieneh]

bump :D

[OralStyles]

woot. I got the 200th vote :P

Sounds good, tablet is a fun item, would definately like to see it cheaper and better with upgrades.

[sieneh]

I am actually really pleased with how Tablet worked out with the new Major totem changes.

I think this can be improved further, I am more or less getting it on all heroes that don't have some form of disable and even on some that are completely disable oriented, its also very useful for saving teammates and setting up even better ganks. :p

To name a few: Jeraziah, Panda, Pyro, Shaman, Witch Hunter...

[sieneh]

Tablet is awesome on Behemoth :p

[sieneh]

Rocks on Panda and Polly as well :p

[Montis]

I like Tablet Of Command / Force Staff a lot but it feels like the range is greater in DotA than in HoN so I'd like a little buff on it :)

[sieneh]

Bump :p

[ComeOnHitMe]

I suggest the upgrade decreases it's cooldown too, because it's pretty long... and because 500 gold for +2 more stats and 75 increased range? Doesn't sound like your getting enough bang for your buck.

[sieneh]

I suggest the upgrade decreases it's cooldown too, because it's pretty long... and because 500 gold for +2 more stats and 75 increased range? Doesn't sound like your getting enough bang for your buck.

Well in case of it being made upgradeable, the cooldown on the base item(current tablet) would/should be increased to 30 seconds.

While each upgrade would bring it down by 5 seconds, so at level, you would have a push range of 650 with a cooldown of 20 seconds, bringing it on par with portal key.

[ComeOnHitMe]

Well in case of it being made upgradeable, the cooldown on the base item(current tablet) would/should be increased to 30 seconds.

While each upgrade would bring it down by 5 seconds, so at level, you would have a push range of 650 with a cooldown of 20 seconds, bringing it on par with portal key.

Agreed, well, it's settled, now all we need is S2 to implement it. :D

[dandylion]

It's really fine how it is. Each part costs less, which ensures that you can buy it in pieces, and offers more overall use than a portal key would. Saving teammates, destroying enemies, saving yourself, it offers a lot more, and while it takes practice to use, it's fine how it is.

[TeNS]

Tablet is a strong item when used by someone who actually knows what he's doing. Voting no.

[ShiftyWaffle]

hrrrm I would say that improving the item by making it cheaper would not make it imbalanced. Intiation heroes would still choose portal key. However, it is now a very very good option in case that initation hero is having trouble farming, even though before it was a good option because as stated above, you could buy it in parts and not lose your gold, rather than losing gold on your way to 2150 for portal key. I'd like to use this item more often in every game use though, so I said yes.

Although, I think a better alternative would be just to decrease the recipe cost by 100-200 gold.

Edit: and why would earthshaker ever get his item, when if he never dies, he could have gotten port key for a just a little but more. Kind of makes him a regretful buyer. Atleast make the difference in the price of the two items slightly greater.

[MiCoHEART]

This entire change is unnecessary because force staff is underrated. It is completely viable against anyone that channels and has more than one use if you can think quickly. I find myself getting it in most games on int heroes and using it to save myself or a teammate on multiple occasions. Furthermore, it breaks tempest ult through bkb, quite nifty.

[Padawanabee]

I'm voting yes because this is a powerful item I get often, and making it 500g cheaper would make it an even better choice than it is.

Also, I would never, ever, upgrade it so I don't need to bother with your silly change.

Jokes aside, I don't see anything wrong with the item as it is, but if you wanna make my life easier I'm all for it.

[CheshireCat]

Terrific idea! T-ups
But I think 75 range is a to modest upgrade for 500 gold. It could easily be 100 range and 2 seconds of the cooldown, leaving lvl 3 Tablet with 700 push range and -4 seconds cooldown.

[high61]

personally I think 500 units is too small. Should be at least 700+.

[thossr1]

can u dodge stuns if u time it right with this item?