View Full Version : The Rathyrian
http://fattiboy.net/~beiz/projects/newerth/the_rathyrian.jpg
AnimeSteez69
11-16-2009, 04:48 AM
Measurement is quite overpowered, and so is his two last abilities together. Blink in, incapacitate the entire enemy team and then taunt them in succession while your teammates rip them apart. Apart from that, this is a straightforward tank that really comes together under your nice eye for detail, if you can figure out to make him more rounded and less like the other portal key + mass CC heroes. Oh, and tweak some numbers.
I still thumbsupped in the hope that you can take the nice visual concept and do something more interesting with it.
Measurement is quite overpowered, and so is his two last abilities together. Blink in, incapacitate the entire enemy team and then taunt them in succession while your teammates rip them apart. Apart from that, this is a straightforward tank that really comes together under your nice eye for detail, if you can figure out to make him more rounded and less like the other portal key + mass CC heroes. Oh, and tweak some numbers.
I still thumbsupped in the hope that you can take the nice visual concept and do something more interesting with it.I'm thinking of changing Determination to 10/15/20/25 damage instead (+250 damage at max potential), seems more in line. I was just comparing to KotF's vengeance, that has a full potential at 480, and is a lot easier to achieve - but having a bunch of creeps hitting you while laning might make it far too powerful in comparison to Legi's Whirling Blade (since you could use it in similar manners). Thoughts? edit: changed it to 25
When I was messing around with the numbers for Measurement, I thought it seemed reasonable with his lack of the traditional armor ability:
You have 1650 HP, and your enemy has 1102 HP.
You cast Measurement on your target, he has 772 HP while in range of you, and you have 2475 HP while in range of him.
My idea was to, for example, throw it on a creep or a stationary player (who's being cc:ed), so to boost your health pool while dealing with the rest of the enemies. After all, if you get measurement on you, just could just run into fow unless his team is actually working together.
I can't say how it would play out with the intelligence of players, but the way I made it, I thought it was fine, so please elaborate on the overpowerdness ^^;
Punishment is a passive aura that requires you to hit the target for the target to be taunted, considering it's a melee strike that is required, you need to factor attack speed, movement speed and target position. It only lasts 3 seconds at max, so you can't successfully taunt every target in the area before one target breaks it, that is not to mention that the one you struck might in fact be blocking you due to the taunt (so that you can't reach your next target). After a target has been taunted, they can't be taunted again for 20 seconds at max. So again, please elaborate on how it's overpowered because I can't see it myself (might just be tired though?).
Please note that I didn't mention Runed Axe, because that would potentially make him semi Legionnaire with Portal Key in conjunction to Extirpation.
Extirpation only deals 600 potential max damage to the enemy hero he uses it on, other than that, all it does is reposition the enemy heroes onto the same spot as the target if they are within range (and interrupts spells such as devourer's devour or electrician's static grip). This is more of a confusion ability, that might give you enough time to land a Punishment on one of your enemies before they scatter. Again, please elaborate it's overpowerdness :<
valiance
11-16-2009, 10:52 AM
Gorgeous presentation! (How'd you do it?) but the hero seems a bit overpowered. Marking thread for a future longer crit.
Gorgeous presentation! (How'd you do it?) but the hero seems a bit overpowered. Marking thread for a future longer crit.Well, I figured that, the less text all over the place, the more likely people are to read it. The less complexity in the abilities, the more likely people will understand and like it. The more the presentation sticks out from the rest, the more attention it will get. btw, it's just a picture made in photoshop.
Now, if only I could try to see the abilities for what they are, and not how they play out in my scenarios, then perhaps I could balance them more appropriately.
I need to know what makes them OP according to you guys.
bumping from third page, still need inputs.
MrPretyHands
11-18-2009, 08:19 PM
Well like cycerin said, this hero will like him a portal key.
which makes sense but alot of heroes almost require those as is.
First Skill: Determination is nice and i like the synergies between this and taunt, though this ability and Measurement conflict because whos gonna attack him when they have no chance?
Second Skill: Overpowered as is but of course numbers can change. I honestly think there can be a better skill for this slot but this ability works but you have to consider how much life 30% is if you keep in ranged and have your teammates dpsing.
Third Skill: Seems underpowered, but the concept is great for tanking and building charges but what carry is gonna consider attacking this hero?
Fourth Skill: Ult is fine, just kinda repetitve among AOE ults. I think soemthing more flavorfull could be here. Just a though.
Overall I always like the ideas of creative tanks because I love tanks the most and some ideas just seem boring. But yours is nice. Got my vote.
WackaWacka
11-18-2009, 08:58 PM
Skill 1: Sounds good. Synergizes well with that Taunt skill.
Skill 2: I recommend making it like:
Intimidation:
With his overpowering presence, the Rathryian intimidates the enemy unit, lowering his maximum health by 20% until the target leaves line of sight or dies. All health lost this way is added to the Rathryian's maximum health pool.
Something like that. It prevents some slight abuse, like if you have 2000hp and a little agi has 1000hp. With your version, it becomes 3000hp VS 700hp. With the proposed version, it makes it 2200hp VS 800hp. However, if you target the enemy tank, with say 2500hp and you have 2000hp, NOW you just reversed your healths, making it 2500hp (you) VS 2000hp (them). Just an idea. :)
Skill 3: The reduced damage is nice considering his attacks have a taunt effect. I like it though. :D
Ult: Good. has the possibility to interrupt a teamfight entirely and does good damage even late-game. It seems like this guy will have to tag each hero to gain the full effect, though. Makes him a good candidate for +attack speed items. I'd definitely build Demonic Breatplate on him. +Armor and +atk speed? Yes please! XD
I like him. Seems like a nice alternative to Legionairre for once. T-up!
First Skill: Determination is nice and i like the synergies between this and taunt, though this ability and Measurement conflict because whos gonna attack him when they have no chance?You know, I actually never pictured that scenario. The only reason I even came up with measurement was because I was concerned about how to mitigate damage without health/armor bonuses for a tank. I'm definitely going to do some changes, perhaps rethink the entire spell.
Third Skill: Seems underpowered, but the concept is great for tanking and building charges but what carry is gonna consider attacking this hero?This is the skill I intentionally designed the hero around, I'll see if I can make more sense with the second skill to accompany this one.
Fourth Skill: Ult is fine, just kinda repetitve among AOE ults. I think something more flavorfull could be here. Just a though.I know, I wanted it to be a bit more unique, but I couldn't think of something that hasn't been done a hundred times - well, at least not in synergy with the taunt, which is why it's the way it is. I'll see if I can think of something else, or if someone here on the boards can bring me something juicy.
Intimidation:
With his overpowering presence, the Rathryian intimidates the enemy unit, lowering his maximum health by 20% until the target leaves line of sight or dies. All health lost this way is added to the Rathryian's maximum health pool.I found someone else already did that yesterday, so that's not going to happen :F
thank you both for the thumbs, kudos :)
Draegon
11-19-2009, 04:21 AM
Is Determination an attack modifier? It's kind of plain.
Punishment reduces all damage being done, correct?
Does Extirpation interrupt the targeted foe's spells? I think it'd be cool to stun the target based on how many heroes are vacuumed in--it'd give time to taunt other heroes before your target.
It's a very well-presented hero, with an interesting take on tanking and initiating. It'd be nice to see things such as proposed growths and movespeed though, as those can help define the plausible builds for the hero.
Kenvinst
11-19-2009, 07:13 AM
The idea is ok'ish imo, but looking at his 2nd and 3rd skill this hero is way too strong.
The second skill is crazy, it is like necro ulti and buffs your hp by 50%.
Reducing your enemies HP by 10% and raising yours by 10% would be better.
The third skill is completely ridicolous, you could permanently disable your enemy from level one on and in combination with the second skill no hero will be able to kill you before you kill him.
Draegon
11-19-2009, 07:35 AM
The idea is ok'ish imo, but looking at his 2nd and 3rd skill this hero is way too strong.
The second skill is crazy, it is like necro ulti and buffs your hp by 50%.
Reducing your enemies HP by 10% and raising yours by 10% would be better.It may look extremely powerful at first, but +50% to your health and -30% to your foe's isn't that scary. A 10%/10% would be worthless. Say the opponent has 1200hp. This ability at max level would reduce the opponent's health by 360. It's applied at melee range and the damage is ephemeral with any way to quickly get out of his range or anti-debuff.
The third skill is completely ridicolous, you could permanently disable your enemy from level one on and in combination with the second skill no hero will be able to kill you before you kill him.As it says on the ability, there is a large "cooldown", or duration on a buff, in which the taunted foe cannot be taunted again.
Is Determination an attack modifier? It's kind of plain.Yeah, it's a modifier, and no, I don't agree. While the ability in itself may seem rather ineffecient in comparison to, say, KotF's nature's vengeance, it really isn't because of the synergy with punishment. basically, the more this guy is hurt, the more he hurts back (and he can control the amount of charges as well, so, it's all good!).
Punishment reduces all damage being done, correct?Yes, that's 6% damage reduction.
Does Extirpation interrupt the targeted foe's spells? I think it'd be cool to stun the target based on how many heroes are vacuumed in--it'd give time to taunt other heroes before your target.Maybe it didn't come out right in the tooltip but that was the general idea, as in, that it interrupts the spells cast from the target as well. In regards to a stun, well, not too bad really, I was actually thinking of some 1-2 seconds slow, but I haven't written any scenarios for that yet :)
It's a very well-presented hero, with an interesting take on tanking and initiating. It'd be nice to see things such as proposed growths and movespeed though, as those can help define the plausible builds for the hero.I really don't want to aid him in his taunting more than I have, free movementspeed increase might be far too strong, no one would be able to escape the rathyrian's devestating incapitations :P I'm going to keep it in mind though, since I still want to rewrite measurement.
WTF, every number needs to be lowered this character is way OP. I hate to rack on your numbers but really, I expect one or two abilities to need some minor tweeking, but not every ability, and not by the degree these need.
The taunt needs to have a chance to proc, not 100% of the time which your description leads me to understand.
The first ability has a potential of +250 damage which is too much, although I do admit not not understanding the CD; does it last for 6 seconds every time you cast it, which is potentially every 6 seconds as well?
Measurement is just OP, numbers too big.
Ulti: How long does this last, and how does it affect the characters in the ulti? Also, more damage? He could potentially gain another 200 damage from this.
WTF, every number needs to be lowered this character is way OP. I hate to rack on your numbers but really, I expect one or two abilities to need some minor tweeking, but not every ability, and not by the degree these need.You're not reading the tooltips right, don't over-dramatize :P
The taunt needs to have a chance to proc, not 100% of the time which your description leads me to understand.You're looking at it the wrong way, making it a proc would render it completely useless, you need to be able to control it. If you didn't read the previous comments, the taunt has a unique target cooldown, you can't taunt the same target more than once ever so often. this also means that this hero will intentionally take more damage than any other hero in the game, this is a trade-off for having a potential initial damage burst, and a constant threat (even if he's not even half as dangerous as being picture). in fact, i think he's doing a good job as people seem obscured by the very thought of his taunt (go me!) :)
The first ability has a potential of +250 damage which is too much, although I do admit not not understanding the CD; does it last for 6 seconds every time you cast it, which is potentially every 6 seconds as well?250 potential damage isn't that much, you have to factor that the player needs to take a beating from 10 hits before he can do this damage. most of the time, he won't be able to withstand up to 10 hits, which means he will use the ability long before that, causing less damage than his potential damage. Additionally, most direct strike modifiers like this has 300 damage potential, and is a lot less painfull to use (pun intended) :P in fact, take nature's vengance as an example, that one has around 500 potential damage, and is a lot less troublesome to produce than with this one.
Measurement is just OP, numbers too big.Not OP, and is getting changed as soon as I can figure out what to replace it with. It's getting changed because it's currently useless, and defeats the purpose of this hero.
Ulti: How long does this last, and how does it affect the characters in the ulti? Also, more damage? He could potentially gain another 200 damage from this.It doesn't last anything, it's direct instant spell that deals damage to a target and pulls nearby hero units to that target if they're close to him, other than that, they are unaffected (with the exception from spells being cast). so this hero does potentially 400 damage (can reach as high as 900 if he's really lucky), what's the big deal? that's less than half the damage most heroes can produce.
Rewrote measurement completely. It's currently very powerful, and subject to change in numbers. I'm confident however that it makes a lot more sense.
EDIT: I hope that you who have participated in suggestions and reviews on my hero would like to add your thoughts on the new Measurement.
I appreciate responding to my post, and clearing something up, but I still believe the abilities allows this character to do far too much damage to easily.
The first ability: I would make it hero attacks only if you want to keep the max at 250 which is basically a divine rapier at lvl 4.
The third ability: It still needs to have a % proc, because you could easily drag an Enemy hero into a tower. Also, you could potentially hold someone in place permanently as long as you hit them every time the taunt wore off. If you really want this ability to be controllable, then at least increase the buff the makes them immune to the taunt much longer than just the duration of the taunt.
The Ulti: I think the ulti is good enough without the +damage. It already is similar to a pudge hook to everyone in the aoe of the target.
Draegon
11-19-2009, 02:41 PM
I preferred the old Measurement, even with the people QQing. D:
I suppose the new one is very synergistic with Punishment.
I appreciate responding to my post, and clearing something up, but I still believe the abilities allows this character to do far too much damage to easily.
The first ability: I would make it hero attacks only if you want to keep the max at 250 which is basically a divine rapier at lvl 4.
The third ability: It still needs to have a % proc, because you could easily drag an Enemy hero into a tower. Also, you could potentially hold someone in place permanently as long as you hit them every time the taunt wore off. If you really want this ability to be controllable, then at least increase the buff the makes them immune to the taunt much longer than just the duration of the taunt.You have to get hit 10 times to get the 250 damage. It's also on an 8 second cooldown.
How often do you see Axe dragging people into towers? The taunt has a 30/26/23/20 second cooldown; he just put the duration of the anti-taunt buff as "cooldown".
MrPretyHands
11-19-2009, 06:37 PM
Rewrote measurement completely. It's currently very powerful, and subject to change in numbers. I'm confident however that it makes a lot more sense.
EDIT: I hope that you who have participated in suggestions and reviews on my hero would like to add your thoughts on the new Measurement.
ill continue to help with your reviews if you actually get to mine like your F4F sig says,
But again like i said before Measurement the old one and the new both discourage attacks, im sure you can catch a carry auto attacking super fast and get a heal out of it but hes gonna pull of and run as soon as he gets this debuff.
A quick ability idea:
Each consecutive attack your enemy makes on you decreases their damage by 2/4/5/6% and stacks 10 times and each attack on you has 5/10/15/20% chance to heal you for 1/1.5/2/2.5% of total life.
It provides mitigation with and surviability withought directly forcing away attacking you. and if taunt procs then it will bring mor healing and more stacks.
just an idea.
I appreciate responding to my post, and clearing something up, but I still believe the abilities allows this character to do far too much damage to easily.Let's take Legionnaire as an example, legionnaire has a 17% chance to deal 175 damage each time he is struck, there's a 0.55 sec CD on this effect, and it's seriously DEADLY if you ask me. Now, not only does he have this insane counter measurement, he also has an ulti that deals 625 damage with a 55 seconds cooldown. Comparing those two abilities to my hero is subjective, because they have a slight similarity, as with my ability requires the be struck 10 times to do slightly more damage than his 17% constant proc ability, and his ulti does, well, 25 more potential damage, but requires far less timing and precision. We might as well look at Kraken's Whirlpool it has a 120 seconds cooldown, have a similar effect (but more precies, easier to control) and does 450 magic damage (in other words, may only be mitigated by those with magic resistance, which is, not always the case). Basically, those 3 abilites alone racks more threat than what you mention my hero does.
The first ability: I would make it hero attacks only if you want to keep the max at 250 which is basically a divine rapier at lvl 4.Since it requires 10 strikes, which could equal a 1000 damage on Rathyrian, especially if it's caused by heroes, I do not see this as a fair trade and vouch against it. If you can make a proper scenario where this would be sucfficient and not heavily underpowered, I will agree with you, but until then, this is the way it is. You also forget to consider that, while it has a rather low cooldown (6 seconds), you will probably less likely have 10 charges every 6 second for this to be effecient enough for a heavy damage spell (however it's a nice initiator, which is the key point).
The third ability: It still needs to have a % proc, because you could easily drag an Enemy hero into a tower. Also, you could potentially hold someone in place permanently as long as you hit them every time the taunt wore off. If you really want this ability to be controllable, then at least increase the buff the makes them immune to the taunt much longer than just the duration of the taunt.It has a 20 seconds cooldown at max rank (I think that answers your concern), and there's more risk than gain from this. Because of it's passive use, you will always have less health than any other hero, because every time you hit a creep, there's a 100% chance the creep will attack you for 3 seconds, which means lower health, basically, you'll pretty much never have max health with this hero, however this is a trade off, because of ability 1 and 2, because even if you always take additional damage (than everyone else), you will still be rewarded for it.
The Ulti: I think the ulti is good enough without the +damage. It already is similar to a pudge hook to everyone in the aoe of the target.The Ulti is based on Magnus ulti, but heavly nerfed since it doesn't stun, doesn't deal aoe damage, doesn't turn the world upside down, it simply just teleports everyone nearby, and then let them continue to run away/attack/wahtever, basically, the only one who do indeed gets a huge blow is the target in question, it is further made situational, because the less targets, the less damage, baiscally, not an affective gank ability, the reason why I added it, was to give enough space to successfully tank up to two targets without having to suffer too much for it. Note that it's however subject to change, because I feel that I want to deliver something unique, and since this is a nerfed ulti from DotA, I... I feel ashamed...
Also, please don't use custom fonts in your posts, it's a pain to answer ;D
I preferred the old Measurement, even with the people QQing. D:
I suppose the new one is very synergistic with Punishment.I was striving for more synergy, I dont want to lose votes because of some ability that people can't understand :) additonally, I agree with Shiznok, he shouldn't have an ability that makes people not want to stick around, he wants people to stick around, he's a tank :) not to say that this ability is any different, except it has more synergy with the taunt, so all around, while situational and may cause people to just run away, it is still more effective than the previous one, and also helps the team - just imagine, a 750 heal on lane for your teammates (even if it's hard to pull off, but still, damn).
ill continue to help with your reviews if you actually get to mine like your F4F sig says,Of course, but you haven't made any mention yet after my post :)
But again like i said before Measurement the old one and the new both discourage attacks, im sure you can catch a carry auto attacking super fast and get a heal out of it but hes gonna pull of and run as soon as he gets this debuff.I know what you're getting at, the old version basically made everyone just run (while good, doesn't belong with a tank arsenal), this one isn't supposed to be used in that sense, this one is basically a heal with implications. Think of this scenario; you're running low on health on a lane, so you cast it on a creep and auto-attack the creep to trigger taunt, now you're 750hp happier (at max rank). Similar to, if your lane mate is running low, he could try and aggro a creep (attacking another hero?), and in turn be healed by 750, it's risky, but it's still nice support. Otherwise, this is a nice addition in teamfights (because of the mess), sadly I know it isn't really original, I was looking for inspiration at other heroes, and Hellbringer/Accursed inspired me. Since this only works on heroes with lower health than you (but kinda guaranteed on creeps) it gets further problematic to use, but the reward is heafty, so, basically, it's really good for mitigation if you taunt a carry, but it also works like a charm if you mess about with creeps.
Each consecutive attack your enemy makes on you decreases their damage by 2/4/5/6% and stacks 10 times and each attack on you has 5/10/15/20% chance to heal you for 1/1.5/2/2.5% of total life.
It provides mitigation with and surviability withought directly forcing away attacking you. and if taunt procs then it will bring mor healing and more stacks.The taunt is 100%, while your idea is really nice, I think it would be far too strong, you could basically remove any carry from the game, if they stack attack speed, they're screwd for the duration (if you taunt them after applying this).
I just had an idea for an ulti, I'm definitely not confident with it, and would like some suggestions, if there's even a point to consider it:
Extirpation (active)
CD: 30/25/20
MC: 90
EF: 275
Tooltip: Stomp into the ground, breaking a piece lose and causing a weight effect. Units struck on the other end of the break are sent flying to Rathyrian's location. The ability does X true damage and slows by 50% for 2 seconds. The range of this ability is 650, and the area affected is 275. The ability is aimed through target direction (think, Valkyrie Javelin). The damage and slow is applied once the units land.
1: 225 True Damage.
2: 300 True Damage.
3: 375 True Damage.
Image Explanation (for the lulz):
http://fattiboy.net/~beiz/hon/the_rathyrian_ulti_explained.jpg
i like the hero overall but personally i think the ulti could be allmost to awesome in combination with other heroes but maybe thats just me =)
i like the hero overall but personally i think the ulti could be allmost to awesome in combination with other heroes but maybe thats just me =)I actually agree, somewhat. I know that it would be wicked in combination to, say, Behemoth, or, god forbid, Tempest, however, Behemoth and Tempest are present in DotA, and so is Magnus, who is the inspiration source (and, in my opinion, far stronger per say, but perhaps less fatal with his combination of abilities).
I've been trying to think of something else, but no matter how I turn it, the only things I come up with has been less useful in the midst of battle.
I could really use some inspiration or suggestions on the ulti, a completely new ability that has synergy with how the hero works on the field (not necessarily the abilities directly).
XcoRe500
11-25-2009, 06:15 PM
nice tank man :)
BrokenSaint
11-26-2009, 08:55 PM
Interesting. Concept approved, numbers need tweaking of course.
Interesting. Concept approved, numbers need tweaking of course.Ah! You stalker! :D
The current numbers I feel are balanced (which is why they are what they are), if you could point out what you feel is too strong/weak, then by all means please do :)
Thanks for your contribution, both on Achirot and this one! :D
A`nub`is
11-27-2009, 03:28 AM
Amazing skill synergy :)
FuzioN
11-28-2009, 08:12 AM
great hero but numbers should go down also the heal on hit should get nerfed with maybe down to 100 per hit on maxrank.
great hero but numbers should go down also the heal on hit should get nerfed with maybe down to 100 per hit on maxrank.I really don't understand why people complain about the numbers. Nor do they actually specify any reason why they want them to go down. Saying "it's OP" doesn't quite suffice.
Ability 1:
You need to be hit 10 times in order to produce +250 physical bonus damage (when you use the ability). Hit by a hero 10 times, you'll most likely be dead already, or low on health. Hit by a creep, well, you'll still have to take damage.
Looking at similar abilities:
Legionnaire deals 175 AOE damage almost every time that he is struck, that's 1750 damage on 10 hits (in equal damage taken), if he's lucky. Keeper of the Forest deals +480 total physical bonus damage with his ability.
Ability 2:
You/Target needs to be hit 3 times within 6 seconds by the debuffed unit in order to be healed; you/target also needs to have more total health than the debuffed target; on a hero, this might actually not even heal at all, and if their attack speed is slowed, well, you/target won't even be hit 3 times in that time. Not to mention that carriers may very well deal more base damage than 250, which means this ability only negates the damage, and may still kill you on the blow because it heals "after" the hit is applied.
Ability 4:
You deal 400 (or 600 if all factors are right) physical damage every 120 seconds on a single target.
Looking at similar abilities:
Legionnaire deals 300 (or 625 if all factors are right) every 55 seconds on a single target. Kraken deals 450 AOE Magic Damage every 120 second. Behemoth deals 350 AOE Magic Damage (1000~ if all factors are correct) every 110 second. Magnus, from which this ability is based on, deals 300 AOE Magical Damage every 100 seconds and stuns for 4 seconds (other than that, they're kinda identical).
If you still think they're too high, specify why and how - because I just can't see it.
I have made changes to Punishment an re-written his ulti.
Why this change?
While the old Punishment didn't have any major gameplay flaws, it would cause decision problems for the player. Having a passive ability that requires the player to maintain themselves instead of rushing head first (as a tank) is quite contradictory to the intended playstyle. I did not intend for players to feel a need to "save" their auto-attack for taunt applications, lowering their overall damage output by a great amount.
The change made Punishment controllable, which means it's a lot better than before. Therefor, I felt that I had to remove the damage reduction from the taunt effect, adding some additional risk to it's use. However kept it as the Carapace part of the toggle. In addition, the old Punishment would make Rathyrian passively push lanes, while it's good sometimes, it's usually not good at early game, thus why I made the effect a friendly aura instead.
The ultimate was a problem from the beginning, and the main target for complaints. I wanted to change it personally, because I used an already existing ulti from dota, albeit slightly modified (Magnus ulti).
The new ultimate is designed to "remove" the reliance on Portal Key, to make the hero design more appropriate for competitive play. The new one also synergies better with Punishment, Measurement and Determination. I'm not all too keen on the numbers though, because I haven't given it a full consideration yet. Feel free to contribute.
Here's the old Punishment and Extirpation for the curious souls:
http://emmerdales.se/beiz/the_rathyrian_old34.jpg
No opinion on the new stuff? bump :(
Well I can't really comment on the theme because all you've given me is a picture, a very vague story and no actual theme explanation of each spell.
Having said that though the tank concept and ability synergy is great. Allbeit a little over powered.
But nothing some tweaking can't fix.
I'll save any balance suggestions and my vote for when you've made a few changes based on other feedback responses. But I like the hero's potential :)
Edit:
Just saw the changes you've made (changelogs are our friend) and I'm gonna go ahead and t-up.
Personally I actually liked the original ult better, but the current one is good too. You might wanna consider shaving 10 off the +damage per hero dragged(for each level) though.
Izual
01-25-2010, 10:22 PM
Is determination via auto attack once activated? And when activated will it use all or 1 charge?
I'm assuming Measurement heals the hero with the most health (between Rath and his target)?
How long will Carapace skill duration last?
Last skill is the only skill that is fully clarified.
I like that you made it very organized and pretty, but you left out a lot of essential details to the hero. I'm going out on a limb and placing numbers in my head where they should be and this hero isn't that bad. But please clarify the first 3 skills.
Well I can't really comment on the theme because all you've given me is a picture, a very vague story and no actual theme explanation of each spell.The theme and story is short, simple and... vague; this is mainly because a lot of people are put off by too much text to read (there's an awful lot of heroes here to begin with) - also, S2 aren't that interested in the story etc (as explained in the guidelines, or, at least as to how I interpret it. They want the ability synergy not the background).
Having said that though the tank concept and ability synergy is great. Allbeit a little over powered.
But nothing some tweaking can't fix.Well, ya'll keep bullying him for his overpowerdness :( If I found him overpowered, I would change the numbers. This is mainly because he does less damage than the other tanks.. However, in the end, numbers can always be tweaked after testing :)
Just saw the changes you've made (changelogs are our friend) and I'm gonna go ahead and t-up.
Personally I actually liked the original ult better, but the current one is good too. You might wanna consider shaving 10 off the +damage per hero dragged(for each level) though.The old ulti is the one that pulls nearby enemies to the same spot (like magnus), the new one is the one that allows him to charge in and do a mass-taunt. Just to be clear :P Regardless, I can agree that the damage ouput from the current one may be a bit too high in combination with a fully stacked determination, but compared to Legionnaire etc it isn't as high as theirs, plus the harder-to-use survival mechanics that Rathyrian suffers from.
Is determination via auto attack once activated? And when activated will it use all or 1 charge?Short answer: determination is a click ability that will consume all charges and deal damage equal to the amount of charges available (in melee).
I tried to explain the tooltips as good as possible with as little text as possible to keep the readers interested. All in-dept explanations can be found in the discussions of the thread (where they should be) :)
I'm assuming Measurement heals the hero with the most health (between Rath and his target)?Measurement is a "debuff" that can be thrown on any hostile (heroes and creeps alike). The debuff is applied at short range (but not melee range). If the hostile target with the debuff attacks an enemy within 6 seconds, the attack will cause the normal damage, but also heal the target (if the target has more total health. total health is the maximum health the player can have. say, rath has 3500 total hp, but only 1000 current hp. if the target has 3400 total hp, but 2000 current hp, it will still heal rathyrian for the duration and the set amount of attacks). Since this debuff can be applied on any unit, it will also heal any unit, and can therefor be used as a form of heal for your lane mate. It also synergises well with Punishment, as punishment forces rathyrians targets to attack him for a short duration.
It should probably be noted that Measurement can be used to heal enemies as well, if you use it on a neutral that has less total health than it's target.
How long will Carapace skill duration last?There's no duration in the tooltip because there's no duration on the passive ability. It's a passive ability that is always on, however it is also a toggle, to activate a different passive ability. If you are worried about the range, the range is specified in the tooltip as 400. In addition, if toggled to punishment, the damage reduction is removed, but will make all rathyrians normal attacks taunt hostile targets. If a target is taunted, a buff is then applied to the target, making it immune to taunt for 20 seconds (max rank) or until death.
Last skill is the only skill that is fully clarified.Last skill is the most complicated :D
I like that you made it very organized and pretty, but you left out a lot of essential details to the hero. I'm going out on a limb and placing numbers in my head where they should be and this hero isn't that bad. But please clarify the first 3 skills.Like I mentioned in the response to Determination. I kept it simple as to interest the reader, if there is any questions, they can be taken in the discussion (which is what the discussion is partly about) :)
CrazyBabble
01-26-2010, 04:34 PM
This heroes is really well done. His ult is great, and so is his third skill. The 2nd skill is a unique disable that looks like it would work very well (especailly 1v1)
Determination does give bonus attack damage right? If so this hero has lots of synergy and all around goodness.
Great carry/tank! I also like the lack of CC and AoE moves :)
(Best move is ult. Sounds awesome)
War_Mech
01-26-2010, 09:02 PM
Alright, as of now it's kind of hard to understand this but I get what all the abilities do.
Everything seems great honestly, second skill is really confusing to read but I think your saying that if you apply it to an enemy and they attack someone on your team it will heal your ally (or yourself) if the ally has more max health than that enemy.
Just want the taunt cleared up as well, it says the become immune to the taunt for X seconds after it occurs, but how long is that? I don't believe it says that anywhere.
Anyway this hero is really nice, has the perfect amount of not overdone synergy.
Determination does give bonus attack damage right?It's an on-click ability that gives added attack damage on that attack.
Everything seems great honestly, second skill is really confusing to read but I think your saying that if you apply it to an enemy and they attack someone on your team it will heal your ally (or yourself) if the ally has more max health than that enemy.Yeah, that's exactly how it works, so yes - you read it right :P
Just want the taunt cleared up as well, it says the become immune to the taunt for X seconds after it occurs, but how long is that? I don't believe it says that anywhere.It says in the "cooldown" (since it is a sort-of-cooldown, except it's target specific), 30/26/23/20 sec.
Anyway this hero is really nice, has the perfect amount of not overdone synergy.Oh I'd say it's pretty overdone, it just works so well by itself at the same time ;D
No running in the corridor you say? How else would I bump into the thread, eh?
hu hu hu, I made a funny :D
Zarent
02-24-2010, 11:12 AM
Moved to Popular Suggestions.
Thanks for the votes everyone, it went smoothly into popular! ^^;
I made a few tweaks to the tooltips and abilities (Measurement is left untouched though EDIT: well, except for the tooltip).
Here are the old ones:
http://fattiboy.net/~beiz/projects/newerth/changelog/the_rathyrian_134.jpg