Blacksmith multicast

[Jammy2001]

Well I'm not sure if I'm just unlucky but in nearly all games I've been in with blacksmith on the other team his multicast is sometimes ridiculously overpowered. I don't want to whine but I don't think any heroes should have an ability which practically insta-kills people from full life, maybe lower the x* multicast as from most the BS players I've seen their survivability allowed them to nearly solo a 5 man team.

[Azureflames]

Make a hood or get more hp?

[juicy2]

The only thing that should be changed is that the multicast shouldn't happen instantaneously, and should be more like its casting multiple times in a row.

[Ryno2112]

I agree with Juicy

[Bahamut]

what difference would it make juicy? i know ogre magi doesnt do the multi cast instantaneous but it really doesnt change anything.

On the other hand blacksmith's multicast is the old version of ogre magi's multicast but much better when you have staff of the master. My guess would be that staff of the master shouldnt increase the number of nukes so blacksmith will be another random pub fun hero just like ogre magi is

[EvaAnge1ina]

i think they should do it like they did in dota, the scepter increases chances of multicasting, but 5x cast is jus ridiculous.

i was in a game recently in which i was carryin than out of nowhere everytime i see the blacksmith 5x multi cast and i was insta death, that is jus out of hand

i really blieve it should b taken back to the ogre magi scepter

[Invoker1]

what difference would it make juicy? i know ogre magi doesnt do the multi cast instantaneous but it really doesnt change anything.
if it's cast instantly it will bypass Accursed's ultimate, and won't allow anyone to heal or repel them.

Also, the reason it's currently overpowered is the same reason they gave bash a cooldown, the procs in HoN aren't pseudo procs like in DotA, so sometimes you'll get a ton of multicasts, other times you might only get 3 throughout the whole game.

[Travakh]

On the other hand instant casting shortens the duration of the total stun, a ogre 5x multicast results in a 3 second or so stun on the opponent.

[GrayyF0x]

i think i'm unlucky because i was only getting a multicast in 1 of 5 casts.and it wasn't instant kill (even with staff)

btw i agree with juicy too

[Glorify1]

most the BS players I've seen their survivability allowed them to nearly solo a 5 man team.

I've never even seen an ogre magi even come close to soloing a single person, much less a full team.

[Travakh]

Maybe if multicast hit 25 times on all units in an aoe

[Omegazero]

I would rather have MC changed to current ogre's MC (6.60 dota MC)

[FiNGERS]

The only thing that should be changed is that the multicast shouldn't happen instantaneously, and should be more like its casting multiple times in a row.

I liked the way DotA did this as well.


i think they should do it like they did in dota, the scepter increases chances of multicasting, but 5x cast is jus ridiculous.

i
i really blieve it should b taken back to the ogre magi scepter

I agree I like the 6.60 changes, but Blacksmith's is improved by Staff of the Master is it not?

[Omegazero]

I liked the way DotA did this as well.



I agree I like the 6.60 changes, but Blacksmith's is improved by Staff of the Master is it not?

In this yes blacksmith does get improved by "Staff of the Master" since it's based off old ogre.

[Dustbin]

Buy a Shamans Headdress, be immune to blacksmith insta-gib.

[BLUEPOWERVAN]

The % to multi after staff of the master seems overly high...

[twincannon]

Blacksmith ulti needs to change, I'm surprised it's lasted this long tbh. So much of dota is set in stone data, what you see is what you get. And then you have this ridiculous ability that makes your main damage skill either do nothing or one-shot people.

[Omegazero]

And then you have this ridiculous ability that makes your main damage skill either do nothing or one-shot people.

Not true, you are forgetting that even if you don't MC to kill people it works as a stun, stunning the target is great for your team to focus fire and forces the enemy team to come in for a save attempt or be weakend in the group fight.

[Frog100]

Buy a hood...

[Glorify1]

I would rather have MC changed to current ogre's MC (6.60 dota MC)

I haven't personally played DotA since 6.60, except for a few pubs, but from what I've been told OgreMagi is serious business imbalanced since he's doing atleast 550 damage a stun. Apparently he RARELY misses his multicasts in 6.60 DotA, where as before it was he rarely got them.

[_Archangel_]

Needs the fix that the current DotA's Ogre Magi received.

The old Ogre Magi suffered the same problem: He's too unreliable to be picked in competitive games, and in pubs it's no fun to play as him because all you do is press F and hope you get multicast. Similarly it's no fun when you die because the enemy Ogre is really damn lucky.

Even the current Ogre still needs work IMO.

[Rippsy]

Blacksmith in HoN is identical to Orge Magi in DotA infact he has actually been nerfed. Since his multi-cast hits in one spell rarther then disabling a hero for a couple of seconds while the 5hits chain one after another.

There are various builds to counter him, just like there are thunderbringer. The problems people are having is not being aware of how to counter strong int nukers; and thus feeding them early; which makes them incredibly strong late game.

This is purely a learning curve issue and ad MOST a lack of good counters issue.

[Smelly1]

Blacksmith is probably one of the best tanks in the game also for a int

[Cantspel]

Blacksmith is probably one of the best tanks in the game also for a int

Zephyr, but yeah blacksmith is probably 2nd.

[Pooton]

I think if the multi were not instant and were seperat hits the armour would effect it more making it do less damage.

[X_R]

I personaly think he is not overpowerd, instead the people that are saying that he is are not looking at what items they can get to prevent the damage output that OM/BS does i.e. hood and incressing health items. Also, I have noticed that people seem to just pick a hero that they want to play, I tend to pick heros that go against my foe. Say BS gets picked and there is Omni/DP in the pool, well I shouldn't have to say anything but if you think that OM/BS is op' try getting a hero that has a spell to counter him, but then again I'm guessing you probly didn't even think about getting a hood/item that helps reduces BS MC from instainly killing you.

Thanks,
X_R

[rhodric1]

what difference would it make juicy? i know ogre magi doesnt do the multi cast instantaneous but it really doesnt change anything.

On the other hand blacksmith's multicast is the old version of ogre magi's multicast but much better when you have staff of the master. My guess would be that staff of the master shouldnt increase the number of nukes so blacksmith will be another random pub fun hero just like ogre magi is

longer stun time.

[Invoker1]

Ignite does what, 275 damage?
275x5=1375
30% chance for a nuke stronger than pyro's ultimate with 6 second cooldown?

[purrgady]

Hood, Linkens or both. I deal with ogre in dota and I deal with him in HoN. Its not a big deal at all. Like all int heros you just have to be smart and not run at them at half health.

There is plenty of ways to keep your health high if you are lanning with him or lane with a ally. If you are a agi or int hero with no hp bonus via items then he will kill you. Do the math in your head when he gets six. How much hp do I need to live through a Blacksmith (Ogre Magi) ult.

The ult is fine, doesnt need nerfing. If the ult is killing Acursed (abbadon) before his ult is going off, then that sounds like a bug or something that needs to be fixed.

Im not implying that "you need to learn to play" Im just saying there is ways to counter him. Same with ThunderBringer (Zues). Lane with a ally, stack hp items early on, make a hood, linkens and watch your hp really closely. Trust me, I have been on the receiving end of a multicast and it sucks, but its just part of the game.

[Thotor]

MC sux. Honestly, people complaining have not played blacksmith.
It is extremly random.

The reason why people complain are :
- they do not have a hood or enough hp. That's your own fault.
- humans tend to memorize the bad things better than the normal hit. Multicast is very random and most of the time cannot be counted on.

On top of this, blacksmith has difficulty getting stuff. No creep farming ability and he is a int melee hero (with a low int increase)

At least he can buff other heroes with speed to feel more usefull.

[master_nug]

I'm sorry, but I've seen on more than one occasion streaks of 4-5 multicasts in a row--it's not balanced. You can talk all you want about linkins and a hood, but playing an intel hero you stand absolutely no chance when you get whacked for 3000 damamge in two shots. IMO lower the number of multi's and give him a reasonably high percentage to them.

[Dustbin]

I'm sorry, but I've seen on more than one occasion streaks of 4-5 multicasts in a row--it's not balanced. You can talk all you want about linkins and a hood, but playing an intel hero you stand absolutely no chance when you get whacked for 3000 damamge in two shots. IMO lower the number of multi's and give him a reasonably high percentage to them.


Don't stick around/let him live long enough to cast it repeatedly then? It has a 15 second cooldown, carry a teleport it's also his stun so you have 15 secs to port out.

[evotech]

Too much luck involved with it, should be fixed. I don't like insta- dying just because a guy got lucky, seems stupid

[Thotor]

honestly, if you think Multicast can insta-kill you, you haven't seen a pyromancer ulti.
I have not seen any OS by blacksmith. Best he can do is take down 75% of your hp and that's only if you do not have a lot of hp or you do not have hood.

Just for example , pyro ulti hit for way over 1k damage. A friend of mine was OSing other heroes without problem (again people that didn't take hp item)

[Helgeran1]

Once I saw a blacksmith that was so lucky he complained about bugs when he didn't multicast.

[Dustbin]

Too much luck involved with it, should be fixed. I don't like insta- dying just because a guy got lucky, seems stupid

Maybe you shouldn't be playing a game where items and abilities have a CHANCE to proc then? A brutalizer going off while you're porting out of a gank is insta-dying because some guy got lucky too :p.

[Broodax]

Maybe you shouldn't be playing a game where items and abilities have a CHANCE to proc then? A brutalizer going off while you're porting out of a gank is insta-dying because some guy got lucky too :p.

Bash Procs are a little more reliable then BS Ult though. I really have no good ideas on how to fix BS. Hes just one of those characters that I think suffers from a design flaw at the root. Maybe it would be more interesting if the "gambling" aspect of BS was more literal? Change his Ult in to an Activated ability that will grant a multi cast on next cast at the cost of HP (as well as mana)? You would probably have to cut the number of multi-casts down so that you don't get people running around doing 5x ignites on dudes at will and getting away.

[ubidat]

Thats why in the "latest" dota version where aghanims is available on more heroes, they've taken it away from Ogre, and reworked his multicast per leve, to a maximum of 4x MC.
But has blacksmith is now, he's the same as [older] Ogre, the staff always increased chance/amount of casts, not nut chance :P
He doesn't really have anything else going for him, so... yeah..

=/

-ubi

[Bastila]

I've never even seen an ogre magi even come close to soloing a single person, much less a full team.

Same.... blacksmith really isn't that hard to deal with. Sure you get the **** omg lame 5x rabble rabble. But outside of that one random move you have a slow effect (which doesn't do a TON of dmg) and bloodlust (to help your team and you run around gank).

The hero is nothing but the roll of the dice. If you build your hero well you can take out blacksmith easily and even absorb his 5x multi cast in the CHANCE that it even happens. The main heroes that get taken out by blacksmith are glass canons who deal out "on average" MORE damage that blacksmith can do on a single target.

Blacksmith is fine as is imo. However I wouldn't mind the change they did in dota recently where they made 2x a 60% proc at lvl 3 etc, and no need for the staff. All it means is that I can get a different item when I use the hero, which is fine by me.

Anyway... I can't see why there's all the fuss about this hero. He's fine. If you hate getting practically 1 shot on your low HP hero I guess we should take out a ton of other heroes too because I know (and I'm sure many others know) plenty of ways to "skin a cat."

[Wrathmont]

This hero definately needs the 6.60 changes. It makes him way more reliable and fun to play.

[ubercrombie]

MC sux. Honestly, people complaining have not played blacksmith.
It is extremly random.

The reason why people complain are :
- they do not have a hood or enough hp. That's your own fault.
- humans tend to memorize the bad things better than the normal hit. Multicast is very random and most of the time cannot be counted on.

On top of this, blacksmith has difficulty getting stuff. No creep farming ability and he is a int melee hero (with a low int increase)

At least he can buff other heroes with speed to feel more usefull.

All true points, although I would say MC doesn't suck, but isn't the most amazing ultimate ever either. Noobs complain b/c all they remember is the one time they got multicasted. They forget the 3-4 other times when they just got single casted and they don't see stretches from the blacksmith's point of view where he goes 5 mins w/o a MC. Hey noobs ... learn basic probability. If an event has a 30% chance to occur with each trial, then in a game where the blacksmith casts 100 fireblasts, he is almost guaranteed to string together a few MC's in a row.

Well congrats to the noobs who QQ'd so much. This patch turned a good hero (and a really fun one to play) into a pretty average support hero.

[Killroy]

Hehe, well with the new patch blacksmith is changed to the ogre magi ulti of 6.61 but still with the buffed numbers. 50% to get a 2x multicast is already pretty sick. But now you have about a 75% chance to get a 2-4x multicast. And I already loved this hero :)

Last game I played before the patch however I was hit 4 times by blacksmith and all 4 times were a multicast. I always lol at that. It just happens.

[Talander]

50% to get a 2x multicast is already pretty sick. But now you have about a 75% chance to get a 2-4x multicast. And I already loved this hero

What? "Buffed" was with 60% chance and no, you have 50% not 75% for 2+x-cast.

[Healbot]

Hehe, well with the new patch blacksmith is changed to the ogre magi ulti of 6.61 but still with the buffed numbers. 50% to get a 2x multicast is already pretty sick. But now you have about a 75% chance to get a 2-4x multicast. And I already loved this hero :)

Last game I played before the patch however I was hit 4 times by blacksmith and all 4 times were a multicast. I always lol at that. It just happens.

Math is hard, especially considering your total chance for a MC is 50%.