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Euphoria
06-08-2009, 04:10 PM
Currently Nymphora is split between two different int archetypes, that of the int DPS and support. However, her skills lack considerable synergy and on top of that she performs incredibly poorly unless given considerable support.

First, let's take a look at her skills.

Her first skill is an AOE heal/damage with a small radius (~250) and a 2.5 second cast. This skill is alright as it is, however, it performs rather poorly in most battles. The radius is so tight it requires the entire team to run into it to heal while it must also hit the enemies at the same time to be genuinely effective. With a 2.5s cast most enemies who aren't disabled will avoid it and with a very small radius it won't hit that many regardless. This seems to be similar to Necrolyte's Death Pulse in DOTA which, for those who don't know, cast a homing skull on every ally/enemy in range that healed/hit for a certain amount. It had a 5.5s cooldown so could be spammed incredibly fast and since Necrolyte also had a skill that gave him mana per kill (creep or otherwise) it was highly sustainable. Given the comparison, Nymphora's heal appears to be incredibly weak, other than being a somewhat higher damage AOE, although I'm sure most people would prefer a longer range/lesser damage AOE that is much more reliable.

Her second skill is borderline useless. Here is why. First the cooldown is insane. Even at level 4, 60 seconds is incredibly useless in all manner. Since it is her least useful skill you won't have it at a 60 second cooldown until level 14 most likely, you and every other hero will have mana regen that will outperform this. There are incredibly few heroes that will actually get any benefit from a 0 mana cast as there are almost no spells with high costs in HoN atm. Pyromancer ulti is about the only one that would benefit, but executing this spell before any hero can use their high mana cost skill, in the middle of a hectic fight shows how useless it is. You get one use per fight, which is a measly ~150 mana save at best. Her other spells are low mana cost comparatively, so the 50 mana cost for this spell to save for her others is useful only in the very strict sense, but it is still not worth getting.

Her third skill is a average range stun orb that does 0 damage, stuns for a incredibly short time (unless it hits twice), and increases Nymphora's MS/AS. This is not helpful at all since nymphora has no passives or increased damage abilities at all to benefit from these boosts, so it seems incredibly trivial to give her a boost to AS/MS since she will see no use from it. This spell synergizes slightly with the first for setting up a nuke, but honestly, any other hero with 2 decent nukes, torturer, glacius, thunderbringer, blacksmith, etc, all have 2 viable nukes that synergize far better and usually deal more damage/disable than this.

Lastly, her ulti. What a sad spell this is. It is marginally better than Furion's teleport from DOTA, which was a 2-3s channel that even if interrupted would reset and cast again, but was on a much shorter cooldown/mana cost. It is far worse than Pit Lord's portal ulti which will teleport ALL nearby allies to any building/unit, but had no channel only "cast time" so to speak of waiting after the quick animation. So, essentially Nymphora's ulti is a poor man's teleport in all manner.

To Summarize:
Nymphora has poor synergy, her AS/MS buffs add nothing to her character and her second skill which reduces mana cost to 0 of the next spell is minimally useful at best. Her AOE has a too small radius to be useful in most situations and is generally just used as a heal out of combat. Her ulti is semi useful for ganks/defending, but could be beefed up greatly by eliminating the channeling (which makes it 100% useless at trying to escape from a fight) and increasing the radius/# of heroes it can bring.

Suggestions:
Nymphora needs either to become more of a supporter hero, or to be remade into a strong initiator like Puck in DOTA. Her second skill should be completely trashed and I suggest it be replaced with a passive that is similar to Death Prophet (can't remember HoN name) or Blacksmith. A passive that increases the AOE/decreases cast time of her first spell and also increases the range/stun/gives damage to the stun orb would make her a much much stronger laner as well as team fighter. This would also give her 3 much more viable skills with greater synergy. Her third skill should drop the AS/MS increase, but should include some sort of added effect, such as dragging heroes back with it on the backswing. I can't think what else, but the AS/MS is not effective at all. Her ulti could use a remake as the teleport is not that useful, 2 extra heroes to be teleported, when most heroes will have Phase boots or BoT doesn't save much time and it really isn't synergizing with anything since her ability to push lanes isn't that great, nor is her ability to farm atm. That is why Pit Lord's teleport was so powerful due to the ability of him to farm/push/defend any lane with quick powerful AOEs. I feel her Ulti should be replaced with a skill that reduces the cooldown/mana cost of whatever next spell a target hero casts. This could be restricted to allow 100% CD reduction on normal spells and up to 50% CD reduction on ultimates. I feel this would still preserve the idea of her being support with heal/spell manipulation, but wouldn't turn her into another spellcasting powerhouse.

These are just suggestions of course and I couldn't think of much to replace her skills with, but I do think she is badly in need of a remake/buff as currently she is too situational to be effective IMO.

VeNuM
06-08-2009, 04:45 PM
She's cool the way she is! - Excellant allround hero that fits into what ever way you want to play her.

Blu3
06-08-2009, 04:59 PM
She's cool the way she is! - Excellant allround hero that fits into what ever way you want to play her.

I disagree. She's totally useless endgame. Her AOE does fairly well in early game and probably even in some team battles. Besides, her mana spell is totally useless and even bugged. If you activate it you can use every item you want for 0 mana (intended?). As Euphoria already said, her spells almost have no synergy whatsoever. She'll probably be used in publics just for fun, but will have no chance in competitive play. I really like her voices/sounds tho :) and therefore hope that Nymphora will get a buff.

VeNuM
06-08-2009, 05:21 PM
Sorry, have you not used her stun properly or something? its an awesome stun, the heal isnt anything to be sniffed at.

Also when you can farm so well you can quite easyily get a sheep stick(forgot hon name sorry) or such expensive items and easily be of use late game.

Blu3
06-08-2009, 05:36 PM
Sorry, have you not used her stun properly or something?Have you ever played Nymphora against experienced players?

I don't deny the fact that her stun is indeed useful, but it isn't even instant and you can try to evade it. Compared to heroes like Warlock (the one who can summon the malpha) she is weak. I'd always pick Warlock over Nymphora, buy the item which grants aoe heal and have Nymphora Spells (AoE Stun -> Malpha summon, which is instant + AoE Heal) + more useful abilities.

Glorify1
06-08-2009, 08:21 PM
Her next spell is a free spell is completely worthless, while her other skills are extremely powerful. Some sort of steroid spell over that slot, or another support ability would make a well rounded hero, able to put out large amounts of dps with a deso.

Euphoria
06-08-2009, 08:48 PM
Her next spell is a free spell is completely worthless, while her other skills are extremely powerful. Some sort of steroid spell over that slot, or another support ability would make a well rounded hero, able to put out large amounts of dps with a deso.

A Deso? Have you seen her HP? This hero is knocked out in 2 seconds.

Hucklecat
06-08-2009, 08:51 PM
A Deso? Have you seen her HP? This hero is knocked out in 2 seconds.

Of course he has, Glorify knows everything!

Glorify1
06-08-2009, 08:54 PM
She actually extremely durable. Phase + bracers at level 9 and she's already 10 armor 1.4k hitpoints. That's enough for almost everything but late late endgame. It's common for support heroes to get deso, to actively increase the amount of damage their carry deals.

Euphoria
06-08-2009, 09:05 PM
She actually extremely durable. Phase + bracers at level 9 and she's already 10 armor 1.4k hitpoints. That's enough for almost everything but late late endgame. It's common for support heroes to get deso, to actively increase the amount of damage their carry deals.

Funny thing about that.

At level 9 with 6 bracers she has 1366 hp. Anything else you care to share?

Glorify1
06-08-2009, 09:19 PM
Ehp.

Euphoria
06-08-2009, 09:20 PM
Ehp.

Oh you mean the term used for describing the amount of PURELY PHYSICAL damage a hero can take based on their armor? Yeah. Congrats. We all know early game is about carries.

Glorify1
06-08-2009, 09:21 PM
It's extremely hard to chain nuke 1k hp down when you have a heal that fills a third of your bar. Also you almost always have max movespeed.

Blu3
06-09-2009, 06:57 AM
It's extremely hard to chain nuke 1k hp down when you have a heal that fills a third of your bar. Also you almost always have max movespeed.

Extremely hard to chain nuke 1k hp down? ...

If a pyromancer attacks you, do you think you can heal yourself before dying?

Furier
06-09-2009, 07:06 AM
Sorry, have you not used her stun properly or something? its an awesome stun, the heal isnt anything to be sniffed at.

Also when you can farm so well you can quite easyily get a sheep stick(forgot hon name sorry) or such expensive items and easily be of use late game.

lol the hero is useless, stop playing vs 1:12kd ppl and you might see that it is true.

Inconmon
06-09-2009, 07:16 AM
The mana regain needs a shorter cooldown and maybe decreased manacost. It is a good spell for many heroes that have constant mana trouble. It could also have another bonus.
Take Keeper of the Light's (or whatever his name was) mana regain spell. it is similar in its use... but it increases targets damage, too. Cool thing bout nymph would be that it only lasts till next spell is cast. armor bonus to help people run away, speed buff, etc might all work awesome.

Liquidsword
06-10-2009, 03:20 AM
A Deso? Have you seen her HP? This hero is knocked out in 2 seconds.

No, she is not you should just get better with using her.

The first time I took her I played her as a mage and did -alright-. The next game I went treads, deso etc doing pretty much the same thing as a combat ready shadow priest.

Teleporting behind people and putting down carefully placed nukes and using stun to hit them + the entire creepwave was plenty for me to destroy strength heros before they could escape. Her burst damage with the nuke+attack speed is pretty insane. Not to mention if they sit and fight you get a huge heal 2.5 seconds into combat, which conveniently shits on a heap of stuns out there.

Wappo
06-18-2009, 10:18 PM
Like most here, I believe she is a great hero played right. But like most, I also agree that the free cast skill is useless.

Two suggestions (on top of lowering the cool down):

1. When used on self, have it make her other spells more powerful.

For example:
-Her seed heals/dmgs for more with a larger radius.
-The stun can give her twice as much attk/move speed.
-Teleport can take an extra person and takes less time to cast.

2. The targets next spell cast is free and when the spell is cast the mana saved from it is granted to nearby allies.

Blu3
06-19-2009, 06:58 AM
2. The targets next spell cast is free and when the spell is cast the mana saved from it is granted to nearby allies.

this!!!!! nice idea. Plus, it should have a smaller cooldown.

FuriousPeon
06-19-2009, 12:27 PM
Personally I think aside from her 0 mana to cast ability, she is REALLY powerful. Just my input.

CrimsonTears
06-22-2009, 07:23 PM
I just played a game as her and I really think she's great. That said, the issue I see with her is her low hp. I went skadi to help with that and to make the line stun AS bonus more useful. I think maybe a little longer on that stun would help a lot along with a higher rate of natural hp gain. Also I agree that skill 2 is totally useless, but it did help me twice in long pushes.