Team Shuffle

[TheConquero1]

Joined a shuffle game earlier today, and in the lobby while we were waiting, everybody got to talking. We all seemed to agree that shuffle should be the default mode, with no shuffle being an option.

Mostly the idea is that you could join games with confidence that there isn't a team stack in progress on one or the other side.

Mind you, being that it was a shuffle game, our opinions are obviously biased.

This is more of a casual friendly option, but I honestly feel that the rampant pub stomping that was fairly common in DotA will become much worse with tracked stats and everyone flaunting their scores.

Also, I'm confident there would actually be a slightly more even variety between the two modes, as presently when I filter to Shuffle Players I typically get 0-2 games showing up, mostly 0.

I realize it's a team game, but there's a certain point where having a pre-organized group just gets stupid. I realize I could try and take command of the team myself every game, but between language barriers, attitude problems and my general laziness, it's not a realistic expectation.

Opinions? Flame away.

[Invoker1]

/signed
I'm pretty socially awkward in-game, I rarely talk so I don't really make any friends, so I get terribly jealous of pub stompers and usually leave if i can tell the team is premade before it starts.

[Snidgel]

I host shufflegames 95% of my hosts, it's more fun to play versus your mates and you can actually get a good game going

[raiz265]

I host shufflegames 95% of my hosts, it's more fun to play versus your mates and you can actually get a good game going

that would end in massive flamestorms on teamspeak :D

anyway, i also think that shuffle games are way to rare :(

[Mighty_Bozo]

actually i think that the filter option should have both of each option to filter...
like easy filter / not easy filter
and as you've said shuffle filter / no shuffle filter

[TheConquero1]

I agree 100% on both those ideas Bozo, especially the filter for non-EM games, as I'm always doing that manually, like with my own eyes, WTF! :D

Though the issue more presently at hand, is the defaulting of Shuffle Mode, presently the addition of a filtering to only Shuffle Games is equivalent to filtering for no games.

With No Shuffle as an option, teams would be encouraged to play against other teams, and lone players would be able to join games without worry of pub stompers. Furthermore, I've noticed more and more frequently in games, even where a team is not pre-organized, one team's stats are considerably higher than their opponent's. Presumably because people are checking stats of players and joining the higher side. With shuffle this would be pointless, it would all fall to chance.

Someone mentioned there would be a Matchmaking system in a later build, which would if implemented as I imagine it, fix the team-stacking problem entirely, but I've the feeling that the devs will allow friends to join Matchmaking games together, and on the same side. If it's anything like the Warcraft 3 matchmaking system, it will likely end up with imbalanced teams.

It's too early for me to be this pessimistic though.

[Invoker1]

Truffle shuffle

[kiunch]

This is good idea, if you going to track stat, make sure the team are default shuffle.

[Travakh]

Default shuffle is a good thing.

I join lots of games and see a host facing off what's obviously a full team waiting to stomp him, and he has no idea that they're a team.

[THF]

Well, I'm hosting my games, usually about 2-3 a day, it's always in EU servers, they are shuffle, allpick, mid-skill and no leavers. I tend to be pretty strict as in leaver ratio (<=10%), and i'm not letting people with less than 10 games in. The K/D usually varies between 0.4 up to 2.0; if you see my game, feel free to join.

[Howley1]

that would end in massive flamestorms on teamspeak :D

anyway, i also think that shuffle games are way to rare :(

This!
Mocking on TS in shuffle games is all the funnier ;)

[Triangleman1]

<- always hosts shuffle

hopefully the matchmaking system will fix all the problems, though. along with a new stats system. since if matchmaking only relies on k:d ratio and games played itll suck.

matchmaking is the only hope i have for this game, since a good game of dota really just depends on even matchups. Otherwise, itll be in the same situation dota has been in for a long time.

and shuffle is great, but it certainly doesnt split teams up evenly every time. Its just a placeholder for an actual matchmaking system.

[FiNGERS]

2 things.

1. Matchmaking

2. Shuffle players is already an option. Take away the possiblity for people to play with their friends on the same team and a lot of people are going to stop playing the game.

[TheConquero1]

If you read my original post, I didn't say all games would have to be shuffle, I said Shuffle Mode would be the default, with "No Shuffle" as an option.

Friends will still be able to play together, but at the added risk of others doing the same against them.

Beyond that it's up to the players in the game to filter the teams or label their games for the level of players their seeking.

[Mentality1]

Ladder and clans should, at least in theory, alleviate this problem. To be honest, I'd be against default shuffle.


Creates a bias against people who just want to play with their friends, which can often be 'pubstomping' only in the technical sense (know eachother =/= highly organised, all good players)
Can't choose your color, probably a minor concern, but I would definitely miss it (gotta have my Grey, Blue, Pink, or Purple :D)
I know some people find the graphics/scenery on Hellbourne's side vastly easier on the eyes then Legion's.

Just my opinion, you can go ahead and call me a team stacker and probably be more right then wrong.

[TheConquero1]

Alright Mentality the last two arguments are purely aesthetic issues, so, okay but meh.

As for the first one, yes that is of concern to me, I know there are times when two people who know eachother just want to be in the same game, but they don't communicate significantly more, or in some cases they don't even lane together so it's a non-issue.

Mind you, in the above cases, one might ask the question: "Why are you playing together anyways." To which the answer is typically as simple as "Because we know eachother." Which is a good enough reason, so in these situations, defaulting shuffle would be asking these people to bite the bullet.

And of course, the other problem would be if you simply wished to play with 1 friend, and since your game is labeled no shuffle, a full team of 5 would join the other side. Again, asking some to take one for the (solo) community.