Postulation on the origin of Bubbles

[Devilsnight]

Now we all know that Bubbles seem more like a tribute to the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles franchise and refitted with the abilities of Puck from Dota.
But as I actually enjoy this hero I won't see it fit that he would be considered as a mere filler hero that doesn't seemingly fit into the story of Hon.

So disregarding that he is a port, and that his story is heavily inspired by TMNT, I think it is time that we speculate as to who he really is.

Clues - Taking up the story provided to him it is obvious that he is an old being, centuries old. He might be one of the oldest beasts on the legion side, only outmached by perhaps Draconis the ancient guardian - disregarding elementals and spirits.
We could presume that he is at least as old as Zephyr, if not older. Zephyr being a wise sage and we know from his story that he observed the legion vs beast crisis but without intervening. Armadon is another potential rival to being the oldest living beast, being described as long-lived and also witnessing the war between the legion and horde.

Perhaps a clue to his age is found withing the next piece of information that we are given - that he once belonged to a powerful wizard.
Looking back at the story of the Savage and HoN, which wizard could have potentially been his owner and master? We know that it was a male, that he was powerful, gentle natured and/or patient to bother having a turtle as a pet (in the sense that it moves slow and can't travel on it's own) and that the wizard practiced his magic a lot.
We also know that his master died at some point so it is not one of the current living characters of HoN. When he died is uncertain, and it is also uncertain whether Bubbles had taken his current form before or afterwards.

And the last piece of information is that we know he fell into a pool of magical substance and that ultimately transformed into what is now Bubbles.

My guess - Considering I quite like Bubbles (so probably partly bias) and of what we know of him, I think I know when he came to be and who his master was; During the time of The Prophet, his master.

Reasoning - Now, that isn't just based on that the prophet might have been alive during Bubbles time, we don't know how many centuries old he is. I think it is also worth noting that the glyphs Vindicator carries around are said to have come from the Prophet himself and that they presumably had a lot to do with Silencing or muting, it is interesting to compare that Bubbles also had a Silence ability.
Another clue comes in the form of Bubbles transformation; He was said to have fallen into a magical pool. We can't know for sure where such pool could be, but I think a good guess would be in the marshes in which the frogs dominate, including pollywog nowadays. Looking at his description it is obvious that the frogs of the marshes knew magic for many centuries, and that it being marshes they might have had pools of magic around.

That leaves us with how Bubbles could have arrived there, being a turtle, and being with his master. And again, I think the clue lies in that the prophet traveled the lands a lot. He could easily have visited the marshes carrying his pet turtle along with him, and in something of an accident perhaps Bubbles fell into one of the magical pools. In there he transformed, and perhaps from that acquired the ability to spawn seaweed to trap unfriendly foes.

With that being said, the other mystery is his age: I don't really know when the prophet traveled around, nor for how long. You may know. Being a powerful wizard but also assassinated we could assume he lived to be, what, 80? Maybe he adopted the turtle as the age of 20-30? We know Bubbles practiced his masters moves and that the Prophet traveled for many years before he died, so maybe during his masters young years when he was practicing himself for his quest. The Prophet's disciples, strong and intelligent warriors that carried his will with them lived perhaps another 80-100 years. After that time we see the entry of Maliken Grimm who probably lived for some 40-50 years before we reach the Newerth of today. That makes for 200-230 years, a timetable that Bubbles could fit into. Would make him about 200 years old.


I dont know.. It's a lot of perhaps and maybes. But I think it makes some sense and makes for a fine starting point as far as I'm concerned :)
What do you guys think? Some information I've gotten wrong or forgotten? Or you don't like the TMNT lore?

[BuddhaKekz]

I have never suspected the Prophet to be Bubbles owner (personally I always imagined some kind of watermage), but actually your reasoning makes a lot of sense. One of his disciples could also be the wizard. It would also explain why Bubbles wants to fight the Hellbourne, as his master was a servant of Sol and therefore directly opposed to them.

[Devilsnight]

It could also have been some unknown watermage, yep. I just get the impression that the Wizard that bubbles served under was an important figure. Not just a wizard, but a powerful wizard. Someone who seemingly spend a lot of time on his own practicing, Bubbles watching. But also someone who must have traveled to find that magic pool - unless of course the wizard created it himself or had it lying around. A blind man could have accidentally dropped Bubbles into a pool :P
By the way, would you consider it more likely that Man or beast had a magic pool lying around?

Bubbles also needs to be quite old with that dissolving memory of his and the usual 'I'm older than you' and 'back in the days' quotes, and that's why I wanted him to be at least of the era of the prophet if not older. Also with the prophet came wisdom and strength in the ranks of man and so it would seem appropriate for Bubbles to originate somewhere around there or earlier, perhaps influenced by them.

I don't get the impression that the 5 disciples seem fit teachers for him, and they also seem a little too young as well. But could be.

Yes, his master being a servant of sol would also make sense; bubbles description does say he fights the forces of 'evil'. With it being morally right to follow Sol's teachings, it must be immoral to oppose it. Could of course also just have meant that the watermage didn't bother fighting the horde/legion war, but sensed evil when the hellborne emerged.

[Drasha]

Why do you think bubbles master was human? The beast horde practiced magic long before humans started using any thing resembling it.

[Devilsnight]

I guess that 'wizard' sound more humanish alongside sorcerer, whereas it would seem more appropriate to use shaman or druid or elemental of sorts had it been a beast.

It just feels as if 'pet' is more of a human thing to have, whereas beasts form companionships with other beasts.
Wildsoul does refer to booboo as his pet, but we don't really know what he is and he considers himself a druid. Tundra doesn't use pets but bonds with wild animals.
Tremble doesn't refer to boris and neither does warbeast to his hellhounds but warbeast is a hellbourne that takes advantage of others so..

I don't know, they just sound more human those 2 things.

[Drasha]

Still bubbles is really really really old and beasts discovered magic not humans so I don't see how it could have been a human. (discounting the fact this is pretty much a joke lore)

[Devilsnight]

But then again how old is he exactly?
Hid description says he is centuries old. Of which could be 200 to 500 years or something. I put him around the 200, I think that sounds fair.

Looking at the savage lore I think it would be fair to say mankind has lived for at the very least 100.000 years. With the introduction of a magical world I guess we can shave off a lot of years to have evolution work within a timetable that isn't too enormous. A more real life number should be up in the millions.

From being a very successful scientific race, to annihilating each other, to experience the wrath of the hellbourne.
To become 'an animal' again having to learn science all over again from living in caves, and during that time beasts themselves were evolving intelligence and became more like a half breed of beasts and man. They also studied the power of nature and learned magic during that time. Then after man being hunted by the beasts for some time they started over, learning languages, science, getting together to form civilizations again etc. Did man learn magic during this development and in what part of it?
Then they began to hunt the beasts that once hunted man, who knows for how long. Cities were build etc. Then the prophet came along and it would not be long - perhaps a century or two - before the arrival of Maliken Grimm. The prophet knew of the old ways of Sol but can we assume that he was the first man to know magic?

From that I think we can deduce that man must have known magic for maybe millenium, and that is a longer timetable than we need for a powerful and magical human being to arrive to take bubbles as a pet.

And yes, I think I said in my OP that the speculation were to disregard the TMNT relation ;)

[CKMo]

I will confirm directly right now that the Prophet never had any magical powers aside from clairvoyance, which hardly makes him a wizard.

HOWEVER, the disciple who wrote the Book of Sceptre was rumored to have later founded Adkarna and became its king through magical means.

Yes this is canonical.

No, Bubbles is not addressed or found or hinted at all in any of the original settings.

Continue.

[Devilsnight]

How do you know that?

[CKMo]

How do you know that?

I once asked the writer whether or not the Prophet had magical powers. He stated otherwise.

Bubbles was created simply as a hero; his concept never appeared in Savage, which is the basis for HoN's lore. I'm quite familiar with Savage's lore, soo....

[OneSantaPlz]

What about Art's husband? As owner ofc. He died, she lived on.

[Devilsnight]

you asked the writer..?
I'm sorry if Im being sceptical here.

And the Book of Sceptre is what? The one that Vindicator runs around with?
Why is it that the apocryphal writings in it are 'said' to come from the prophet himself and wields not just magic but 'powerful magic'?

[CKMo]

you asked the writer..?
I'm sorry if Im being sceptical here.

And the Book of Sceptre is what? The one that Vindicator runs around with?
Why is it that the apocryphal writings in it are 'said' to come from the prophet himself and wields not just magic but 'powerful magic'?

Why yes, I asked the writer. Being a writer myself, I had to understand the entire world of Newerth before I started writing HoN's.

The Book of Sceptre is one of 9 books in the Codex Solaris, the "Bible" of the Church of Sol. Specifically, there are 4 Books written by the Prophet himself: Book of Creation, Fire, Rebirth, and Law. Then 5 books by each disciple after his death: Book of Sceptre, Sword, Hammer, Prayers, and Wanderings.

Vindicator's book is also called the Great Book. It is unknown whether or not this is the original Codex Solaris, because the original writer never came up with Vindicator for Savage; S2's whoever came up with Vindicator and tried to fit him in ambiguously. There are quite a few heroes in HoN that are never talked about in the Savage universe.

The Prophet himself had relatively no fighting prowess whatsoever; this is why he needed an entourage of disciple bodyguards called the Five. The disciple who wrote Book of Sceptre is probably the only one who has any magical powers in the group, as he later united lots of people under Adkarna's banner and founded the Legionnaires.

If you haven't figured it out yet, the original 5 disciples were the precursors to the five Legion character options in the Savage games: Hammer = Engineer, Sceptre = Legionnaires, Sword = Savage, Prayers = Chaplain, Wanderings = Scouts.

Any more questions?

[Devilsnight]

I guess where you read the information would be nice to know.

[CKMo]

The original writer copied and pasted it from the setting bible into an email.

[BuddhaKekz]

I think it would be easiest if you just shared that text. If the original author is okay with that of course.

[CKMo]

He says, and I quote, "I think you should just point them to the stuff that's available on S2's website."

[Devilsnight]

Had you turned in an assignment and left that quote as a footnote you would have flopped ;)
I have looked at the history of savage and savage 2 on both their websites and couldn't find what you wrote here. The story on this website starts from after the prophet and his disciples.

Just provide a link or something?

[CKMo]

I'm not allowed to provide the actual documents, but I already fixed them once before in a publicly available way although honestly, this won't reveal too much


https://newerthlore.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/church-of-sol/

http://newerthlore.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/the-blind-prophet/

http://newerthlore.wordpress.com/2012/04/10/timeline-18-2/

As for the fact that the Blind Prophet has no magical powers himself, this was a question I asked the writer for other reasons once, and he said that the Blind Prophet has no magical powers.

[Jeroz]

who is the writer by the way?

[Devilsnight]

Don't get me wrong here but how do we know those are official Newerth lore texts and not something fan written?
Noticing the late dates, the website as which the content is posted and the name 'Ismael' as in 'IsmaelVera (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?3269252-IsmaelVera) in one of the texts made me a little curious.

And why are you not allowed to provide the actual documents?

[CKMo]

The writer is Mark Yohalem.

And yes, these are "fan" written, by me. I mentioned that. The "story" texts are written by me to fit into a canonical Newerth universe, as a pet project when I wanted to do something to while away my time. Ignore those.

The background reading texts are compiled by me, these are the ones you should be reading. I was given some of the originals to read by the writer, but I'm not allowed to post any of those. Anything you get from me can only be the things I've been allowed to restate in my own words. The three links I posted covering those topics are facts.

As for the the fact that these are fan written, doesn't mean they deviate canonically or are any less viable; I generally gave the original writer my texts for his approval (at least, to see whether or not they were correct and fit into the Newerth world). Pretty much, anything you ask me I will know of it if the original texts covered it.

[Devilsnight]

The writer is Mark Yohalem.

And yes, these are "fan" written, by me. I mentioned that. The "story" texts are written by me to fit into a canonical Newerth universe, as a pet project when I wanted to do something to while away my time. Ignore those.

The background reading texts are compiled by me, these are the ones you should be reading. I was given some of the originals to read by the writer, but I'm not allowed to post any of those. Anything you get from me can only be the things I've been allowed to restate in my own words. The three links I posted covering those topics are facts.

As for the the fact that these are fan written, doesn't mean they deviate canonically or are any less viable; I generally gave the original writer my texts for his approval (at least, to see whether or not they were correct and fit into the Newerth world). Pretty much, anything you ask me I will know of it if the original texts covered it.

I know they don't necessarily deviate canonically or are less viable for that reason, but they do sound less credible.
It's just that any scientific mind would rebel when presented with interpretations of a collection of evidence they cant examine for themselves.
Listening to an authorative figure in the field would probably help, an S2 employee dealing with the lore.

is it that S2 are planning or are already selling the information in books and so therefore wants people to pay for the information? Because otherwise I'm having trouble understanding why it be kept classified for the rest of us who is to enjoy the lore.
I could understand that some elements be kept secret as a mean to create a mist of mystery, but basic information like that...

I do appreciate that you spend time replying me.

[CKMo]

I know they don't necessarily deviate canonically or are less viable for that reason, but they do sound less credible.
It's just that any scientific mind would rebel when presented with interpretations of a collection of evidence they cant examine for themselves.
Listening to an authorative figure in the field would probably help, an S2 employee dealing with the lore.

is it that S2 are planning or are already selling the information in books and so therefore wants people to pay for the information? Because otherwise I'm having trouble understanding why it be kept classified for the rest of us who is to enjoy the lore.
I could understand that some elements be kept secret as a mean to create a mist of mystery, but basic information like that...

I do appreciate that you spend time replying me.

Present him with your plight then, although don't let him know I divulged his email

yohalem@gmail.com

[BuddhaKekz]

I know they don't necessarily deviate canonically or are less viable for that reason, but they do sound less credible.
It's just that any scientific mind would rebel when presented with interpretations of a collection of evidence they cant examine for themselves.
Listening to an authorative figure in the field would probably help, an S2 employee dealing with the lore.

is it that S2 are planning or are already selling the information in books and so therefore wants people to pay for the information? Because otherwise I'm having trouble understanding why it be kept classified for the rest of us who is to enjoy the lore.
I could understand that some elements be kept secret as a mean to create a mist of mystery, but basic information like that...

I do appreciate that you spend time replying me.


My thoughts exactly.

Is Mark Yohalem still S2's lore writer or is there a new writer/are there new writers? [S2]LoreMeister would be my personal guess (for obvious reasons).

[CKMo]

My thoughts exactly.

Is Mark Yohalem still S2's lore writer or is there a new writer/are there new writers? [S2]LoreMeister would be my personal guess (for obvious reasons).

Far as I know, there have been no new lore writers.