Whispering Helm

[PKPKay]

I have posted this in another forums but I believe this is a better spot for it so I am reposting this.

"Dominated" creeps have no "death timer" so this enables every hero to become a miniature Chen.
I was in a game where 2 players managed to get 4 minotaurs each, and they had a chen on their team as well. Sven would stun and the creeps would make their way towards the hero. Then chain stun until the hero died.

I decided to try this tactic out in my next game. Needless to say, our team easily overpowered the other team and won.

We need to tone this down so you can only have a max of 2 or 3 creeps dominated before they die.

[KatyPerry]

The CD on WH is way too long to effectively dominate enough creeps. Also Chen/Ophelia gain certain advantages when dominating creeps and although Chen is my favourite hero, there are numerous way to counter him and his creeps.

[Ryno2112]

look into the alchemist bones. Dominated creeps are free gold.

[WinD_1nside]

^ Lul, both items are about the same gold cost.

[PKPKay]

look into the alchemist bones. Dominated creeps are free gold.

So let's think of a 5v5 scenario.
Other team managed to get 4 minotaurs each.
That's 20 minotaurs racing towards you.
Now for some reason, your entire team has 5 alchemist bones.. so that instantly takes care of 5 minotaurs.
What are you going to do about the other 15?
You're gonna get disabled, then once the minotaurs gets in range you will get chain stunned and you will die.
Once you're dead, the other team will repeat what they just did on your teammates or just proceed to wipe out your entire base.

If devs feel this isn't a necessary fix, then they better get used to people complaining about this item.
And the general public better get used to this strategy. It takes a little bit of getting used to, but it's not that hard to control multiple units.
The ability to stun a player in place for over 8 seconds and have strong tank creeps that can push a lane easily with minor support...yea.

[knowitall]

I'm going to say that allowing the other team to get 20 minotaars is bad play on your part.

[PKPKay]

and how exactly would you counter it if they dominate the creep and send it back to their fountain?

[Ryno2112]

PKPKay I can almsot promise that I wont change your mind even if I give you the valid and correct explanation I'm about to give you, however I have faith that given time everyone can find understanding.

if each of them have 4 minotaurs they've spent a lot of time -not- farming and gaining levels. this means your team should have overall better items and higher levels. I will also say a simpel BKB will stop any fears of perma disable. Lets also take a look at AoE damage. let's say you have a good AoE disabler like Tree. suddenly those minotaurs can't do anything whiel you're team is cutting down minotaurs and heros left and right. if your team also has Enigma, well the game's already won but even more so if the previous team thinks stacking minotaurs is the best strat in the world.

now, we also have to put in perspective the amount of time it would take for each person to get 4 minotaurs. We'll say they allg et thier helms by the 15 min mark. Then we'll be kind and say that a minotaur spawns at each forest and I've somehow let them farm my forest. that puts us at 25 min before they can even get all the minotaurs. That's also saying we aren't gangking them and kill their minotaurs or that we aren't using our forest at all.

by the 25 min mark, I can have a a blink dagger and radience on Enigma. That's enough to f.uckt heir entire game over. if you look down the line, Enigma has radience and blink, carry has life steal and damage item, gangker has abyssal and damage item, tank has vanguard and tanking item, AoE caster is ready to blow **** away and if they're a good AoE caster they'll have a spell giving item.

so after all this is considered, we must then assume that the side with mass minotaurs are amazing micromanagers setting off AoE stuns with their four minotaurs eacha nd keeping themselves alive at the same time.


That's a lot of assumptions. Trust me, on the whole, the strat isn't viable and you'll never see it used by teams.

[`Shifty]

Can anyone say... behemoth?

[Invoker1]

BEHEMOTH SOLVES THE 20 MINOTAUR PROBLEM
NOTHING TO SEE HERE, MOVE ALONG.

they need a death timer like in DotA, 2-5 mins. I had 9 minotaurs and wildcats as ophelia last game and after a short team battle we pushed for the win at 20 mins

if each of them have 4 minotaurs they've spent a lot of time -not- farming and gaining levels.

we must then assume that the side with mass minotaurs are amazing micromanagers setting off AoE stuns with their four minotaurs eacha nd keeping themselves alive at the same time.

That's a lot of assumptions.

I'm just going to respond in order.

It's hard to drop an obs ward, or wander through the forest on your way back to base instead of walking through the lane?

Have you ever played an RTS? If you can't control your hero, and one group comprised of 4 of the SAME UNIT, you won't even be able to beat an AI opponent. You don't have to be good at micro to control 5 units with a total of 2 unit types.

It isn't.

[Ryno2112]

what does playing an RTS have to do with HoN first off?

Second, no it isn't difficult to drop an obs ward AT ALL. especially if you have scout.

as for being a wiz at micro, you have to switch to each unit in order to use their stuns independently. You obviously don't know how this works or you'd already know this and you'd know it isn't easy not in the slightest.

If you're losing games cuz of four minotaurs then it isn't the minotaurs' faults.

So instead of hitting 2 and then tab, you have to hit 2, and then 3, and then 4?

You're right, it's too micro-intensive.

And here's an edit to that. You don't even have to hit them in rapid succession. You have to be not slow enough to hit a whopping 2 buttons in 2 seconds.

2, (war stomp hotkey. I'll go with T still.)
2
T
You now have 2 seconds to hit
3
T
You now have 2 seconds to hit
4
T
Etc.

[Ryno2112]

while moving them.... I'm done with your Rediercare, you can keep your QQ. Minotaurs aren't game breaking if they were you'd see this every game, I've played a lot of games and I haven't seen it once.

The fact of the matter is they have generally low hp and in a team fight, they'll get wiped out FAST. unless all of you are agi melee carries,t hen you were screwed regardless. One hero with a b-fury and it's gg minotaurs. Not to mention if Behemoth's in there it just makes the whoel team gg since you're adding more feed to the ult.

last post.

You've shown me by saying you're done with me. You're really teaching me a lesson.

1100 hp is not low. 1100 hp is higher than a lot of heroes until they get HP items, or level 15+.

Secondly, the last time I checked, Bfury doesn't give cleaving attack and a "As long as a hero has this item equipped, all minotaurs the enemy team controls fall over dead."

Congrats, you can cleave. Good luck cleaving down 1100 hp from a bunch of minotaurs WHILE THEY STOMP YOU TO DEATH. Protip: You can't cleave with battlefury if you're not attacking, and you can't attack when you're STUNNED.

Last of all, why would anyone do this when the enemy team has ES? Even I have more faith in people than that.

[Nome]

Can anyone say... behemoth?

Behemoth isn't picked in most competitive matches, because he's banned in most competitive matches.