The Two Words That Will Boost Your MMR

[Jenova26]

**DISCLAIMER: This is written to appeal to 1600 MMR and below, but the content applies to all MMR levels**

As the title says, there are two simple words that WILL boost your MMR if you live by them. For the past few months that I have been frequenting this Forum and Strategy forums, I see a constant influx of "How can I win if mah team so bad," "Why my team all noobs," and "How do I get my MMR higher" threads.

Ultimately, no team is perfect by design. Especially in solo-queue. Your team will be noobs, wannabe smurfs, tryhards, failhards, "my stats so low cause I support", trolls, griefers, feeders, and butthole ninjas. True story though, so's the other team.

Until a certain point of competitive teamplay or top-tier MMR and In-House Leagues, Matchmaking games are FAR more likely to be decided by the number and extent of mistakes made than by great plays. The ability to capitalize on mistakes puts your team WAY ahead of the opposition. Allow me to reiterate, "WAAAAAY AHEAD."

That being said, the two words that WILL win you games and MMR are simply, "Communication" and "Teamwork."

Now, I understand that this has been stated over and over again ad nauseum. I understand that you all may have read this in several threads and you may be thinking, "Yea, I got it.... but mah team soooo stupid and dey no listen to meh!" If you are thinking this for even a fraction of a second, then, I regret to inform you, but you don't understand. So, allow me to explain the difference between ORDERING, LISTENING and COMMUNICATION.

Abandon all trolling, ye who enter here...

For proper communication, you need to first understand that you are not God. Your way doesn't go because you say it does. You can only effectively communicate if you understand a few things:

Your team does not play like you do
Your team does not have the same hero as you and cannot do what you can
Each teammate is NOT as skilled as you, in fact, they may be significantly MORE skilled than you
Your team does not have the same tolerance for punishment as you may. They may want to concede before the game is over
Your team may not understand English as well as you OR *GASP* they might not have sound/microphone.

ALL of these things need to be taken into consideration before you can lead your team to victory. You need to maintain a positive attitude and LEAD your team. No one plays video games to be harassed or threatened. NO ONE DOES ANYTHING TO FEEL HARASSED OR THREATENED. You speak TO your teammates, not AT them.

"I want to win" does not constitute a positive attitude. You need to be able to find the positives on your team and exploit them. Let your team know why something that seems bad is actually good. For instance, you have a Keeper of the Forest who is not helping in teamfights like he should and has been pretty much only farming for 20+ minutes. Chances are, your team will blame him for a death or a bad fight. In most regards, this may have been his fault for not being there, but how can that be seen as a positive? Answer? You have one of the tankiest, best teamfight, strongest push heroes in the game FREEFARMING. Tell your team that "It's fine. He's gonna rape lategame. Let's just pick smart fights until he's ready to push."

Let's look at what that statement just told your team: You have just assured your team that you can win lategame. You have reinforced to Keeper that he is a viable member of the team. Bottom line, you have restored hope in one simple statement. You have shed a positive light on what is generally considered a negative.

How about another scenario that we have all seen and will never cease to see (sadly): Your team has one guy who is desperately trying to support, though he may not fully know how. One of your teammates gets ganked and blames a lack of wards even though you know for a fact that your support has been warding. We all know what happens next, right? The supporter gets pissed off and doesn't want to help ward any more because he's not being appreciated for his efforts. Then, the less he wards, the more the jackass who keeps getting caught out will flame him. What do you say here? You have to keep the team unified to win, right? You have several options, you can agree with the guy that got ganked and tell the support to ward more which will only make him feel more ganged up on and he'll likely disconnect or AFK in well. You can agree with the support and tell the jackass with no awareness that he's a jackass with no awareness. OR, Option 3, you can say something along the lines of, "Hey, you probably shouldn't have been that far out without wards, but [SupportPlayer] has been warding most of the game. You should farm over here when you respawn since it's safer. I'll grab the next few wards."

Right there, you have given sound advice WITH an alternative course of action so he will be harder to gank in the future. You have reinforced that your support player is a valuable member of the team and offered to lightened his burden for a while so he can get some items and farm.

Thinking positive and relaying that attitude to your team will inspire them to work together toward a common goal. Every player looks at this game from a different perspective. Some people watch Honcast a couple times and think they are the next N0tail. Some people don't have a freaking clue what Honcast is. Whatever the case, you're all in the game together and you all want to win. Leadership isn't about knowing what to do or how to be better at something than everyone else, it's about knowing how to get your team to work together and how to use their strengths and weaknesses to the greatest extent possible to accomplish your goals.

Next time your team fails at something just remember what your father or your coaches used to say when you failed at something as a kid. They'd pat you on the back and say, "don't worry, you'll get 'em next time, buddy." Take this attitude into Newerth with you, leave the flame at the door, and watch the wins pile up.

Understand that for this to work effectively, you'll need to use your mic constantly. You need to be the loudest (in content, not volume), most consistent, most positive, and most influential voice on your team. If someone says something negative or is starting to lose hope, you need to speak up and reassure and reaffirm your team. Twist the negatives into positives and, the best part of this, after a certain point, your team will follow you without a second thought.

[SyleSpawn]

I've fully read your article, I don't have much to add to it beside saying that I totally agree with you and yes, teamwork and communication is what can turn a game into victory... specially in the lower MMR bracket where most team are not so cordinated and tend to fail to respond to each other in due time. Anyway, thumbs up for this awesome well written article! Hope that people ready it and learn from it! It would help so much to keep things light rather than turning it into a flame fest.

[Eldest]

Two words: Buy TP

[Rhayne]

Now that you've stated the obvious; seriously, how are people supposed to get to the MMR they want if they play by your guide? how can they expect to be high as testie without a raging attitude, how can they expect to stomp everygame? ohh that's right, testie never solo's. I bet he's **** without a team. Implied point? You need a group of mates to get where you want to be. "faster" that is.

[Ackwell1]

I couldnt find 2 words...

[ghnurbles]

Solid read, mirrors much of my own thought of late.


how are people supposed to get to the MMR they want if they play by your guide?

Following the guide = reduced flaming/positive attitude > less tilted team > less mistakes made > better chance of winning.
Following the guide = providing leadership for your team > better team co-ordination > better plays made > better chance of winning.


ohh that's right, testie never solo's. I bet he's **** without a team. Implied point? You need a group of mates to get where you want to be. "faster" that is.

This is only true if you and your friends lack the ability to work with strangers, and have an MMR below your skill level due to that. If you watch Testie's stream he actually exemplifies a lot of the points in this article in the way he communicates with his pubs - he provides decent leadership and doesn't flame.

[TattyJangles]

Map. Awareness.

[Jenova26]

Now that you've stated the obvious; seriously, how are people supposed to get to the MMR they want if they play by your guide? how can they expect to be high as testie without a raging attitude, how can they expect to stomp everygame? ohh that's right, testie never solo's. I bet he's **** without a team. Implied point? You need a group of mates to get where you want to be. "faster" that is.

Apparently this is now an "I hate Testie" thread? Also, what Testie does is much harder than solo'ing. He has paying customers play with him. Most are 1400-1600 players. When he 5-locks with them, there is a 99.9% chance that he will be versing another 5-lock of friends who play together often. The more players you queue with, the more coordinated your enemy will be.

And nothing in this guide will get you as high in skill as Testie. That's simply ridiculous. To get as good as Testie, here's what you need to do:

- Play competitive Starcraft:BroodWar for a few years,
- Get ridiculously good and be one of the top rated NA players
- Switch to HoN
- Play 15 hours a day
- Use your SCBW contacts to introduce you to top DotA players who also moved to HoN
- Play with them constantly and learn what they know
- Join one of the top competitive teams and play tons of IHLs


Did you, sir, do any of the above? I'm guessing the answer is "no". Don't act like the guy didn't earn the talent he has. He isn't argued to be one of the best carry players in the world "because he queues with 5."

[tidds]

Apparently this is now an "I hate Testie" thread? Also, what Testie does is much harder than solo'ing. He has paying customers play with him. Most are 1400-1600 players. When he 5-locks with them, there is a 99.9% chance that he will be versing another 5-lock of friends who play together often. The more players you queue with, the more coordinated your enemy will be.

And nothing in this guide will get you as high in skill as Testie. That's simply ridiculous. To get as good as Testie, here's what you need to do:

- Play competitive Starcraft:BroodWar for a few years,
- Get ridiculously good and be one of the top rated NA players
- Switch to HoN
- Play 15 hours a day
- Use your SCBW contacts to introduce you to top DotA players who also moved to HoN
- Play with them constantly and learn what they know
- Join one of the top competitive teams and play tons of IHLs


Did you, sir, do any of the above? I'm guessing the answer is "no". Don't act like the guy didn't earn the talent he has. He isn't argued to be one of the best carry players in the world "because he queues with 5."

Smackdown?

[MacroHard]

I came here expecting "solo mid", but yet I got a detailed and insightful guide. What gives?

[Peepz]

Now that you've stated the obvious; seriously, how are people supposed to get to the MMR they want if they play by your guide? how can they expect to be high as testie without a raging attitude, how can they expect to stomp everygame? ohh that's right, testie never solo's. I bet he's **** without a team. Implied point? You need a group of mates to get where you want to be. "faster" that is.
testie used to solo q around top 20 before (think he got to 2050 mmr pre compression) solo q.
he would with ez solo q to 1850, but when he playes with his friends/custommers he usually is around 16-1700. when i play solo im around 1700-1750, when i play with friends im around 1600, dno what ur point is.

[Pellikan]

If you wanna win do like this guy says. If you wanna be better then you do it like me and flame/rage/blame so you have to play MUCH BETTER to win instead of relying on good teamplay. That way you will get better faster :P

[Dominare]

I came here expecting "solo mid", but yet I got a detailed and insightful guide. What gives?

If it would make you feel more at home, I could insult you for only playing casual mode? Just say the word.

[Jenova26]

I came here expecting "solo mid", but yet I got a detailed and insightful guide. What gives?

Trolling by being a pompous, elitist ***hole is too mainstream. I decided to go a different route.

[Suleika]

Nice guide, but useless.

1. Most of the people who SHOULD read and follow it, wont read it.
2. there seem to be so ****ing many trolls out there, it wont help anyway.

i had a game 1 hour ago where i bought over 15 wards, im sure it was even more and our rampage (mid) got ganked and blamed me for not putting up wards. then he and our fade started to dive 1on3 the whole time until we lost the game.

and when i told them ill report that behaviour, they just loughed their asses off.

sorry, i really buy always wards, no matter which hero i play, i have good mapawareness and call out all misses on voice or chat.
but im pretty sure i lose most of my games due to whiny ********ed idiots who just wont listen, no matter what you do.

again - nice guide, but im sure the world (of hon) will not get better with it.
too many idiots on their way to destruction.

[Jenova26]

Nice guide, but useless.

1. Most of the people who SHOULD read and follow it, wont read it.
2. there seem to be so ****ing many trolls out there, it wont help anyway.

i had a game 1 hour ago where i bought over 15 wards, im sure it was even more and our rampage (mid) got ganked and blamed me for not putting up wards. then he and our fade started to dive 1on3 the whole time until we lost the game.

and when i told them ill report that behaviour, they just loughed their asses off.

sorry, i really buy always wards, no matter which hero i play, i have good mapawareness and call out all misses on voice or chat.
but im pretty sure i lose most of my games due to whiny ********ed idiots who just wont listen, no matter what you do.

again - nice guide, but im sure the world (of hon) will not get better with it.
too many idiots on their way to destruction.

Useless? No. The example you gave is the exact reason why this isn't useless. You're actually confirming my theory. You lost a game because your team was working against each other, were flaming each other and refusing to cooperate. Your team did NOT use teamwork and cooperation.

What my point in the original post is is that you have to inspire your team to communicate and work together from the very start. Simple things like letting your team know what your doing or thanking someone for helping you. FROM THE START. Perhaps I should have included the from the start bit, but if you let the atmosphere of the game turn negative, then it will not recover. Time and time again this has been proven in practice. You have to actually work to foster an environment in your game where your team wants to work together. You are FAR less likely to get flamed if you are being mannered and helpful.

When someone flames at you, you have to keep your cool and find the positive spin. There always is one.

Unfortunately, as in your case, sometimes you can't influence people and get them to work together. Some people just want to watch the world burn. Just /banlist and /ignore them and move on to the next game.

The point is though, how helpful did you feel getting raged at like that? How confident did you feel in the outcome of the game after that? I assume it was something along the lines of "F*** it, this game is over. We lose." When YOU rage at other people, they feel the same way. You CAN'T win games like that. The second you flame one person ONE TIME, you have lost ALL hope of being a positive influence on the game. You have to keep your cool and keep at it. Trust me, it does work. Not all the time, but most of the time.

[Suleika]

No matter what i did, they just didnt want to listen.

often i cant stay cool, i just have to say: ok, **** it - its just over with these kind of ppl.
i had ppl i my games who raged from the start because our blue player banned their hero which they wanted to pick. instead of just picking another one, they just went on rage mode. there was NO WAY we could turn that around.

my point is: you are right, i always try to be a good teamplayer because i know that i am not a good solo player at all (maybe its the age, maybe im just untalented :p).
i know your theory works because i did the same thing in world of warcraft when i was a rbg-teamleader. i knew not everyone on our team was super-duper-mega skilled, but that didnt matter. i knew how to talk to my ppl and i knew how to TEAMPLAY and raise their moral when everything seemed to be getting worse and worse.

all of those things didnt matter, because i knew how important teamplay was und how to LEAD my team to victory and they always listened to me.
so we got from under 2k mmr to 2,4k by just working together really good and we beat some pretty hard teams who were peaking at 2,6k mmr.

i was proud of that because i knew that it worked and i was happy because my teammates knew: when we do what leika says, we will be victorious.

here in hon its different, when i solo queue or play with 1-2 friends and we have a kind of winning streak of 3-4 games, then all of a sudden one of these stupid trolls or idiots show up on our team who just lose the game by simply trolling or feeding or refusing to listen AT ALL. when everything goes right, theres ALWAYS this one day where the retards keep coming and i lose about everything i have won.

so i am stuck at 1,500 again :)
i know ofc i could do better but i know i have improved since my last time playing, but im still a better TEAMplayer and support player than carry. i just cant carry. i am reliant on good carry players or good teamplay in general. dont want to blame others for me being stuck, but thats how it feels atm. as i said, i know you are right and i know it works by my own experience in wow, but its different in hon. too many stupids with attitudes ...

[Jenova26]

Yea, it's frustrating. But you just have to keep at it and improving your own game. Keep the positive attitude going and as you get better, you'll get better at leading your team. The better you know the basics, the better you can lead them. Unfortunately, 1500 is really difficult since it is the starting MMR, so you'll get 750 MMR quality players up to 1950 MMR quality players. You just have to keep focused and don't lose your attitude. Once you make it to 1550, it starts to clear up a bit and players start to function on a more predictable level.

[Suleika]

yeah sure - that "just keep going" argument doesnt really work well.

had 2 games in a row now which were so horrible, that i had to leave. and i almost never leave. i have a 1,5% leave at MM at 330 games.
nymphora decided to not ward (got owned by mid then) and take my farm (i was pesti) and then tell me, that she is taking my farm cause im missing O_o this is so ****ed up. are there only imbeciles on this ****ing planet?

[Jenova26]

Hey man, it's not impossible, though it may seem like it sometimes. If you want some help in refining your playstyle so you can move out of the bracket you're in, then I'd like to suggest that you try out the Project Epoch training. I was in that clan as a mentor for a while and the people there are extremely active, friendly, and helpful. Or you can add me in game and I'll help you out a bit. I only ask that you have access to Skype if you'd like my help since typing is, imo, an ineffective means to coach a player.

[Rhayne]

COORDINATION & TEAMWORK = IRRELEVANT sub 1500.

[CrimsonAdder]

I gotta be brutally honest and say this recent influx of threads on how to win games by appealing to basic psychology are extremely boring.

It's obvious, and typing a thread about it is simple, but pretty much everyone playing this game gets at least a little upset when something goes wrong, and it doesn't allow for one to be the number 1 ****-sucker of the team when it's needed. I'm not even saying it leads to rage, but in the best case scenario when one is ticked off by something bad that happens, his first instinct won't be to appeal to unite the team. That's the human mind. You can't keep a cool head 24/7, even just over the course of a few games someone who tries to keep this super mentality will become exhausted really fast.

[Katieeee]

COORDINATION & TEAMWORK = IRRELEVANT sub 1500.

In my two trips down to 1300 and back up to 1500+, those two things with a bit of leadership made games really easy. Most players down there don't carry TPs and overextend, so just being able to get a few teammates to go along and do basic ganks and pushes wins. :)

[HahaYouDied]

"Don't suck."

[Dawnbringer]

So many times have I seen threads saying "I am at XXXX ranking because of <insert scapegoat here>". It is another one of the issues I find, people don't find flaws in what they do and proceed to rage at their team. If your team is at eachothers throats you are essentially facing two hurdles instead of just one. A few encouraging words go a long way and people are far more likely to listen. You nailed it, good read.

[MasterGeese]

I came into this thread expecting to see "Good Job." I was thoroughly disappointed.

[Doorgymguy]

Theres no way to carry yourself out. If you belong in a bracket you will be in it. Simple, Best advice i can give you to get out of lower brackets is to not start arguements within your team. Afterall you're in the same bracket with them, no need to rage at them calling them bad.

[Myzreal]

A funny tip for support players (which I am myself): pretend to be a girl.

Seriously. I tried this for a few times and right at the start (picking phase) I said something like "Hi guys! I'm gonna support you this game, do your best! :)". Being a girl was indicated by account icon and account name (sub, not this one). Funny as it may sound, this really works as people generally would flame a girl trying to "take the man role and carry" but they are more than okay with having a girl "watch over them and take care of them" thus "doing the girly job". Yes I know this is sexist but hey, I'm not responsible for how this community works.

This of course works without pretending to being a girl too. I just find it funnier and more effective if I do so :) The drawback is that I can't use the voice chat (unless I cut my balls off).

[Balls`n`Nuts]

I came here expecting "solo mid", but yet I got a detailed and insightful guide. What gives?

Hahah right on, seems to be everyone solution to everything.

Gotta agree, obvious answer but still good read.

[Old_Ben]

I was expecting "don't feed"

[Blaity]

''99% chance he will vs another group of 5''


no

[Rkey]

Pretty much the way I feel about solo queue too, and I have played solo queue in the 1500-1600 range enough to call it an art by now.

[Jenova26]

''99% chance he will vs another group of 5''


no

So groups of 5 don't get queued against groups of 5 anymore. You know so much, tell me more.

[Epidemilk]

A funny tip for support players (which I am myself): pretend to be a girl.

Seriously. I tried this for a few times and right at the start (picking phase) I said something like "Hi guys! I'm gonna support you this game, do your best! :)". Being a girl was indicated by account icon and account name (sub, not this one). Funny as it may sound, this really works as people generally would flame a girl trying to "take the man role and carry" but they are more than okay with having a girl "watch over them and take care of them" thus "doing the girly job". Yes I know this is sexist but hey, I'm not responsible for how this community works.

This of course works without pretending to being a girl too. I just find it funnier and more effective if I do so :) The drawback is that I can't use the voice chat (unless I cut my balls off).

I dunno man I would expect a mixture of "omg a girl" distraction from half the community with the other half more like "eww this is hon no girls allowed"

[Tony`]

Having low-skilled teammates in low mmr brackets is inevitable. It will keep coming frequently and consistently, the only thing you can change in the equation is yourself and team cohesiveness. Think about it, you're not going to teach them to be high-skilled players in the small amount of time you have. The best you can do is improve yourself, and appeal to basic human psyche. Sure, you can teach them a trick or two in one game, but they will be relatively the same skill level. So keeping a positive, and unifying attitude can only help your winning chances.

GJ OP.

[Gdemami]

**DISCLAIMER: This is written to appeal to 1600 MMR and below, but the content applies to all MMR levels**

As the title says, there are two simple words that WILL boost your MMR if you live by them. For the past few months that I have been frequenting this Forum and Strategy forums, I see a constant influx of "How can I win if mah team so bad," "Why my team all noobs," and "How do I get my MMR higher" threads.

Ultimately, no team is perfect by design. Especially in solo-queue. Your team will be noobs, wannabe smurfs, tryhards, failhards, "my stats so low cause I support", trolls, griefers, feeders, and butthole ninjas. True story though, so's the other team.

Until a certain point of competitive teamplay or top-tier MMR and In-House Leagues, Matchmaking games are FAR more likely to be decided by the number and extent of mistakes made than by great plays. The ability to capitalize on mistakes puts your team WAY ahead of the opposition. Allow me to reiterate, "WAAAAAY AHEAD."

That being said, the two words that WILL win you games and MMR are simply, "Communication" and "Teamwork."

Now, I understand that this has been stated over and over again ad nauseum. I understand that you all may have read this in several threads and you may be thinking, "Yea, I got it.... but mah team soooo stupid and dey no listen to meh!" If you are thinking this for even a fraction of a second, then, I regret to inform you, but you don't understand. So, allow me to explain the difference between ORDERING, LISTENING and COMMUNICATION.

Abandon all trolling, ye who enter here...

For proper communication, you need to first understand that you are not God. Your way doesn't go because you say it does. You can only effectively communicate if you understand a few things:

Your team does not play like you do
Your team does not have the same hero as you and cannot do what you can
Each teammate is NOT as skilled as you, in fact, they may be significantly MORE skilled than you
Your team does not have the same tolerance for punishment as you may. They may want to concede before the game is over
Your team may not understand English as well as you OR *GASP* they might not have sound/microphone.

ALL of these things need to be taken into consideration before you can lead your team to victory. You need to maintain a positive attitude and LEAD your team. No one plays video games to be harassed or threatened. NO ONE DOES ANYTHING TO FEEL HARASSED OR THREATENED. You speak TO your teammates, not AT them.

"I want to win" does not constitute a positive attitude. You need to be able to find the positives on your team and exploit them. Let your team know why something that seems bad is actually good. For instance, you have a Keeper of the Forest who is not helping in teamfights like he should and has been pretty much only farming for 20+ minutes. Chances are, your team will blame him for a death or a bad fight. In most regards, this may have been his fault for not being there, but how can that be seen as a positive? Answer? You have one of the tankiest, best teamfight, strongest push heroes in the game FREEFARMING. Tell your team that "It's fine. He's gonna rape lategame. Let's just pick smart fights until he's ready to push."

Let's look at what that statement just told your team: You have just assured your team that you can win lategame. You have reinforced to Keeper that he is a viable member of the team. Bottom line, you have restored hope in one simple statement. You have shed a positive light on what is generally considered a negative.

How about another scenario that we have all seen and will never cease to see (sadly): Your team has one guy who is desperately trying to support, though he may not fully know how. One of your teammates gets ganked and blames a lack of wards even though you know for a fact that your support has been warding. We all know what happens next, right? The supporter gets pissed off and doesn't want to help ward any more because he's not being appreciated for his efforts. Then, the less he wards, the more the jackass who keeps getting caught out will flame him. What do you say here? You have to keep the team unified to win, right? You have several options, you can agree with the guy that got ganked and tell the support to ward more which will only make him feel more ganged up on and he'll likely disconnect or AFK in well. You can agree with the support and tell the jackass with no awareness that he's a jackass with no awareness. OR, Option 3, you can say something along the lines of, "Hey, you probably shouldn't have been that far out without wards, but [SupportPlayer] has been warding most of the game. You should farm over here when you respawn since it's safer. I'll grab the next few wards."

Right there, you have given sound advice WITH an alternative course of action so he will be harder to gank in the future. You have reinforced that your support player is a valuable member of the team and offered to lightened his burden for a while so he can get some items and farm.

Thinking positive and relaying that attitude to your team will inspire them to work together toward a common goal. Every player looks at this game from a different perspective. Some people watch Honcast a couple times and think they are the next N0tail. Some people don't have a freaking clue what Honcast is. Whatever the case, you're all in the game together and you all want to win. Leadership isn't about knowing what to do or how to be better at something than everyone else, it's about knowing how to get your team to work together and how to use their strengths and weaknesses to the greatest extent possible to accomplish your goals.

Next time your team fails at something just remember what your father or your coaches used to say when you failed at something as a kid. They'd pat you on the back and say, "don't worry, you'll get 'em next time, buddy." Take this attitude into Newerth with you, leave the flame at the door, and watch the wins pile up.

Understand that for this to work effectively, you'll need to use your mic constantly. You need to be the loudest (in content, not volume), most consistent, most positive, and most influential voice on your team. If someone says something negative or is starting to lose hope, you need to speak up and reassure and reaffirm your team. Twist the negatives into positives and, the best part of this, after a certain point, your team will follow you without a second thought.


While I understand what you are trying to say and I agree that positive attitude is important, your train of thought is flawed.

You set an axiom that your team mates are truly bad and then follow not taking this axiom into account - that Keeper will not rape once he will get farmed, the guy lacking map awareness will not stop feeding after moving to new spot.

Second flaw is that, considering solo queue, teams are random so there is no improvement of your team mates over time - you start with each match from scratch, there is no "next time".



Even great leadership won't turn bad players into great players. Only practice will.

[Jhamin_Libre]

I sort of agree.. I win more games with positive bad players who are trying their best than with better skilled ragers who get mad at the first mistake and let that negativity spread to the whole team (sometimes im like that too :()

[Jenova26]

While I understand what you are trying to say and I agree that positive attitude is important, your train of thought is flawed.

You set an axiom that your team mates are truly bad and then follow not taking this axiom into account - that Keeper will not rape once he will get farmed, the guy lacking map awareness will not stop feeding after moving to new spot.

Second flaw is that, considering solo queue, teams are random so there is no improvement of your team mates over time - you start with each match from scratch, there is no "next time".



Even great leadership won't turn bad players into great players. Only practice will.

Perhaps you misunderstood. The point isn't to make your teammates into great players, but to keep their morale high enough to want to succeed and to try and work together regardless of your team's overall skill level. And of course there is no next time, but what's important is this time. While every game may feel similar and may have the same set win conditions, no two games are ever alike.

What most people fail to realize is that any semblance of teamwork can often win games easier than being the better players. This isn't about coaching your team into greatness but deluding them into playing a step ahead of their team by cooperating. As soon as your team is working against each other and not with each other, you're likely going to lose, unless the other team is awful or their morale is even lower than yours.

However, the downside to this is that it doesn't always work. Occasionally you run into one of those players who just wants to watch the world burn and it doesn't matter what you say or do or how hard you try and reinforce your team's outlook. All it takes is one player like this to completely destroy a team. Yet, this is (believe it or not) a RARE occurance. They are out there, but it takes a special type of person to go into a game WANTING to be pissed off and lose. Even the worst ragers don't tend to come into a game wanting to lose. You have to start early and convince your team to work together, highlight the positives and keep morale up.

Simple stuff like making jokes at the beginning ("haha, OJ thinks he can carry!" is not a joke, nor is it conducive to teamplay. I've been carried by plenty of OJ/Brown players by giving them the tools to succeed and helpful tips and by not bastardizing them from the picking phase). Even making jokes when you get BLATANTLY KS'd. "Dude, y u ks meh!?!?!" will get you nowhere. It happened, get over it. If a Pyro chucks an ult on a 10HP enemy, I'll usually say something in the mic like, "Damn, Pyro! You killed the **** out of that dude!" 9/10, even if I am not made about it, my team will usually say something and I tell them that I don't care so long as their dead, I'm happy.

It's all psychology, man. You aren't trying to teach these people life-lessons or end world suffering, you're just trying to win a game, one game at a time. At the end of the day, 5 melee teams and 5 carry teams who work together for the love of the game will always beat 5 players with a proper team who are at each others' throats. Whenever I see the other team start flaming each other in all-chat, I smile cause I know my team is gonna win.

[Jenova26]

For those of you who really don't believe this works, I have taken a subaccount and applied only what I've said in this thread and tryharding on nothing other than trying to motivate my team and make them work together. I took the account from 1500 to 1650 losing only 2 or 3 games (and I did burn the +/-20MMR BEFORE doing this, for consistency, so all wins/losses were at standard +/- rates). I did not call mid every game, nor did I carry. I only picked exactly what my team needed and I laned as they wanted me to lane. Some games I did ask for mid or to carry, cause it's fun, but most of the time, I just filled whatever role we were lacking.

Then, once I hit 1650, I turned off the mic. I am now playing what the team needs, not what I want, generally. I have gone long-lane Gauntlet more times than I would like. I have been blue and supported OJ Scout. I don't use my mic other than standard communication. If people yell at me, I yell at them back. Other than the way I am communicating with my team, I am picking the same heroes, I am the same player with the same amount of skill, yet my MMR has dropped at an alarming rate to about 1550.

I don't find this to be a coincidence, nor do I find being an ***hole and losing more fun than laughing, joking and winning.

It works, you just have to change your attitude and stop getting worked up over things you can't change. Accept them and work with them and start winning games.

BTW: This experiment took about a month total (shouldn't have taken that long, but Diablo). Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to winning games and having fun doing it.

[Gdemami]

The point isn't to make your teammates into great players, but to keep their morale high enough to want to succeed and to try and work together regardless of your team's overall skill level.

I do get your point, perhaps you are not getting mine :)


Leadership may help your team get organized and do what is needed but then when the action comes, success or failure then is more dependent on individual player skill.

Like your Keeper example. I can keep the team organized, let the Keeper farm, play defensively with the rest of the team and try not to let the team feed till Keeper get his items. But then, once Keeper is farmed and he is supposed to join team fights, his individual skill comes to surface - he won't initiate, he focus wrong target, blindly chase, etc.

This is what bad player means and no leadership can help it.


Leadership is important but so is ones who you are supposed to lead. You are not playing with really bad team mates, you are playing with team mates that are lacking teamwork and leadership.

[Jenova26]

Correct, I see your point, but in any given game, your own team's level of "bad" is going to be comparable to the enemy's level of "bad". With any level of teamwork, you widen the gap and can exploit the enemy's horridness and get your own little pubbies to work together long enough to win a game. If, per the KotF example, a hero is not participating and just farming (even if they aren't good, on top of that), then you can take solace in the fact that 1) he's not feeding and 2) any jackass, no matter how bad, is significatnly less bad with enough items.

You just have to pinpoint those positives, highlight them, convince your team that these positives outweigh the negatives of their ineptitude, and exploit it to win your games. Keeping with the same example, keep your team playing defensive, protect the keeper and exploit his farm to win the game.

The bottom line is that you can't look at it as a negative. You have to look past and find what about that player is necessary to you to win your game.

[man_guy]

Below 1600 Communication and Teamwork?

I think you're better off learning how to maximize inventory and how to farm than counting on others in that bracket.

[Komei]

It is better not to talk at all. When you try to communicate, it only pisses off your allies. If you never talk you will have more MMR because you don't give your allies something to rage about.

Trying to communicate will actually do this with some people.

You can't get anywhere near teamplay without communicating.

[Jenova26]

It is better not to talk at all.


You can't get anywhere near teamplay without communicating.

I was going to reply to you, but then I realized your post answers itself.

[Jenova26]

Below 1600 Communication and Teamwork?

I think you're better off learning how to maximize inventory and how to farm than counting on others in that bracket.

Well, yes and no. Playing pubstomp heroes or carries and outfarming the enemy will win you some games and make you an overall better player by reinforcing your fundamentals, sure. However, not everyone wants to play carries or go mid every game. Sometimes you end up playing gauntlet in a lane with a Forsaken Archer. Who gets the farm then? You can be a jackass and grab a hatchet and take it all yourself and have a weak, useless FA for the rest of the game or you can promote team synergy, play the game the way it was intended to be played, and win the game through cooperation.

Having basic game fundamentals like how farm and how to prioritize item builds will always be a quitessential foundation for success in any like game, but it's the teamwork and cooperation fundamentals that will actually win out since, at the end of the day, it's rare that you will ever 1v5 win a game. It may feel like it, but it's never the case. Even the best field goal kicker needs a center and an offensive line.

Learning how to fabricate that cooperation in every game you play is what will make you rise through the MMR ladder. Look at it this way, let's say you can solo yourself to, per your quote, 1600. Therefore, you are a 1600 player, right? So, having the skill of other 1600 players means you should lose 50% of your games since you are no better and no worse than them. Are you comfortable with only winning every other game? Or, would you prefer to have your 1600 team outplay the other 1600 team so you can win more? After all, you're really only going to get better at facing good opponents by playing good opponents.

Ask yourself this; have you ever played a game where you had 400+ GPM and a great score and your team were running around like monkeys in a circus and no matter how hard you tried, you just couldn't win because your team just wouldn't listen?

[Komei]

I was going to reply to you, but then I realized your post answers itself.

Good luck telling the people that are a burden to the team or that want to steal the show what they are doing wrong.

Standing up an telling you allies "Ok get this. I am going to lead you guys to victory." will only make you a mark of verbal attacks at the slightest bit of frustration.

Best way to play is how Testie plays. Make sure you are indeed the best on your team. Win mid every game and get insane gpm every game and never give your team anything to be mad about.

[Ackwell1]

Standing up an telling you allies "Ok get this. I am going to lead you guys to victory." will only make you a mark of verbal attacks at the slightest bit of frustration.

Works for me, sometimes some 1600s gets mad and then I know I dont even want to carry them.

[Gdemami]

Standing up an telling you allies "Ok get this. I am going to lead you guys to victory." will only make you a mark of verbal attacks at the slightest bit of frustration.


It all depends on how you say it. That is a point of this thread and if you read carefully all OP posts, he gives specific example how to if not avoid such reaction completely, at least make it less probably to hear.


Leadership and communication skills are not natural to everyone, it takes lots of learning and practice but it definitely works.

[Jenova26]

It all depends on how you say it. That is a point of this thread and if you read carefully all OP posts, he gives specific example how to if not avoid such reaction completely, at least make it less probably to hear.


Leadership and communication skills are not natural to everyone, it takes lots of learning and practice but it definitely works.

Exactly this. I'm not telling you to tell your team how to play. When you're solo queuing the goal isn't to better your teammates, but only to get them to work together. Raging will never make this happen. You make subtle hints and give general direction throughout, but you don't say "You get this and do this now". That, as pointed out by Komei, will tend to make the player rage. However, if you talk positively with your team throughout, they will be more inclined to take your advice later on.

[normyp]

Okay I'm going to be honest. I haven't read all the comments on here but I can see many flaws in this:

1. Random leavers and DC'ers: What do you do if it is 4 v 5 from the beginning and the other team won't remake?
2. Some lower level MMR are only kids, honestly, and because of the funky graphics and animal characters they play but they have no idea how to play, it's not even a negative attitude. They actually have a positive attitude to losing they really don't care.
3. Kind of carrying on from 2 but some players don't really care about the game. I got my friend into playing and he really couldn't care less if he won or lost and if he didn't have a good kdr, or wasn't doing well he would just leave. Some people don't care enough to play with the team.
4. You pick a mid hero from the beginning, then all your team pick mid heroes... or you pick a carry and everyone else picks a carry. I always usually have to end up being support, that sometimes works, but the worst thing is when you get a carry who can't play well. I mean they can farm, they can survive but late game when they are meant to help they can't. They don't have the skill necessary to carry.

For those reasons alone I am still 1440. It's not a negative attitude to why we lose, it is because of people who don't care as much as you do about the game. Think about another situation, in the work place, some guy doesn't want to work because he's lazy, he'd rather just watch youtube videos all day because it's fun. You don't want him to get the sack but whatever you try to motivate him he just ignores you because he hates his job. That's what it's like at lower MMR, you get stuck with a bunch of people who are depressed about their MMR and therefore don't care as much as they should equalling in a lack of effort and slower reactions. I think the only way to get to high MMR is either luck or queuing with friends who want to get to a high MMR with a passion as much as you.

[Jenova26]

Okay I'm going to be honest. I haven't read all the comments on here but I can see many flaws in this:

1. Random leavers and DC'ers: What do you do if it is 4 v 5 from the beginning and the other team won't remake?
2. Some lower level MMR are only kids, honestly, and because of the funky graphics and animal characters they play but they have no idea how to play, it's not even a negative attitude. They actually have a positive attitude to losing they really don't care.
3. Kind of carrying on from 2 but some players don't really care about the game. I got my friend into playing and he really couldn't care less if he won or lost and if he didn't have a good kdr, or wasn't doing well he would just leave. Some people don't care enough to play with the team.
4. You pick a mid hero from the beginning, then all your team pick mid heroes... or you pick a carry and everyone else picks a carry. I always usually have to end up being support, that sometimes works, but the worst thing is when you get a carry who can't play well. I mean they can farm, they can survive but late game when they are meant to help they can't. They don't have the skill necessary to carry.

For those reasons alone I am still 1440. It's not a negative attitude to why we lose, it is because of people who don't care as much as you do about the game. Think about another situation, in the work place, some guy doesn't want to work because he's lazy, he'd rather just watch youtube videos all day because it's fun. You don't want him to get the sack but whatever you try to motivate him he just ignores you because he hates his job. That's what it's like at lower MMR, you get stuck with a bunch of people who are depressed about their MMR and therefore don't care as much as they should equalling in a lack of effort and slower reactions. I think the only way to get to high MMR is either luck or queuing with friends who want to get to a high MMR with a passion as much as you.

Well, you don't have to read all of the comments, but you could at least skim my responses as I have already answered a few of your questions and don't feel like repeating.

The short answer to your post is that the majority of your games will not have pre-00:00 leavers, trolls or intentional feeders. You will occassionally run into all of the above as they do exist and sometimes you just can't do anything about it. I can't help you with those scenarios. They happen to everyone and they suck just as much everytime. Last weekend I had 4 games in a row where at least one person left before 5:00. However, we're not playing the game for those instances, nor are they the norm. If I had early-leavers, intentional feeders, and rage-whores in ALL of my games, or even more than 75% of my games, I wouldn't play HoN anymore.

You have to accept and understand that 95% of the time, players come into a game of HoN wanting to win. Your job is to capitalize on their want-to-win and use that to your advantage. You need to get them thinking like a team and focusing on the positives. You have to be the shining example of a non-raging player for this to work. Any negativity by you and your team will no longer care about any positive spin or outlook you attempt to instill. The more positive you are and the more you get your team to work together, the more successful your team will be and the more they will trust your decisions.

However, this is a mental shift - meaning you have to change your way of thinking and the outlook you walk into a game with. For instance, your four bullet points in your posts are four excuses for your MMR since, as I said before, leavers, griefers and intentional feeders or even players with less than 50 games are not representative of the majority of your games. In any given game, your opponents are facing the same pool of players and are equally likely to have the aforementioned game-ruiners in their line-ups. You have to stop expecting your team to fail and start focusing on the fact that most players join a game WANTING TO WIN. Keep them wanting to win and they will follow you. As Katieeee and a couple others have verified, the slightest bit of coordination below 1600 is all you typically need to win a game.

As for the "must pick mid" mentality (which is typically false for most players), you have to break that concept. If you think you are the best player for mid, ask your team if they would mind if you take mid. They'll often be far more receptive to a polite question than you picking a mid hero and typing "memidplz" and assuming that you're the best player on any given team. For instance, I hate playing mid (except with Polly, MB, Bubbles, and Zephyr) so I don't play mid unless I have to (if I'm clearly the best player on the team or the line-up dictates it), but even with hating to play mid and generally not going mid, I have no issues breaking 1600.

If you are putting every ounce of effort into making this work and applying it to your games and you still aren't seeing results, then perhaps you may need to look into some mentoring with Project Epoch. You may have the right mentality, but your skillset might not be where you think it is. A little bit of refinement in your basic gameplay strategies and your game fundamentals/game sense may do you really well.

[Kdperry]

I always try to do this and be a polite player. It can get really tough, especially when people get trolly and non-Englishy. You got to man up. Someone may (rare occasion) leave because they are doing terribly and are just mad, but they will leave 10x easier if you step on them and tell them how bad their moves were. The game is full of new players, noobs, and trolls, especially in the 1500-1600 bracket i've been stuck in since the game came out :/

[Meroi]

I was looking for "you suck" or "buy wards".
But instead I got two parts I can not handle when solo-queuing.

Weird.

But over-all I agree. I am enjoying a game more if I have a mid who's losing, but is humble about it and actually communicating, then someone winning mid and ranting about how awful his team is.
If I feel I am actually heard, I will try to improve the situation so we might make a win out of what may be lost.
Thinking that their team is better is not good, thinking that they are just as bad as you (since you're all at the same rating) is better.

[Radio_Raheem]

Well said OP. You fall under the category of Love in my sig.

[Old_Ben]

Don't Feed.

[neonstatic]

TLDR
testie has never been argued to be one of the best carries in the game, atleast not by any intelligent hon player.
cool guide. but pointless, like feeding cheese to mice. read half. ish.

[neonstatic]

also, the 1500 bracket is not filled with new players. in fact i havent had a game in weeks where i que'd with someone with less than 100+ games, often hundreds or thousands. then there are obvious smurfs who are 20-3
but hey, more excuses for losing. to many "new players to que with" lol

[Jenova26]

TLDR
testie has never been argued to be one of the best carries in the game, atleast not by any intelligent hon player.
cool guide. but pointless, like feeding cheese to mice. read half. ish.

I guess having the highest overall and average GPM and KDR in NASL is bad. I also suppose having the #2 team in the world pay $100 to have him ring for them for a tournament (which they won) with him on carries and playing mid is also bad.

But, if Frenetic Array is willing to pay to have him ring, and he puts up the best overall carry stats whenever he plays a tournament, then clearly he can't be one of the best carry players in the game. You must know something I don't.

Or maybe you just read on the forums somewhere that he farms a lot and never helps his team and hopped on the bandwagon without any form of proof to back up your woefully uninformed opinion.

[Jenova26]

also, the 1500 bracket is not filled with new players. in fact i havent had a game in weeks where i que'd with someone with less than 100+ games, often hundreds or thousands. then there are obvious smurfs who are 20-3
but hey, more excuses for losing. to many "new players to que with" lol

Just because someone is "new" does not mean they have less than 100 games. Stuck in the 1500s is generally indicitive of a relatively new player. Considering this genre has been out since about 2001, any player who joined HoN without playing DotA would be considered relatively "new" to the game, even if they have 1000 games. Considering the low amount of fundamental skill that it takes to get to 1600, I'd assume that most players in the 1500s are, indeed, relatively new or disinterested with improving.

Like I said in a previous reply post, it is fairly unlikely to find brand new players to the game in any of your games as they are few and far between. You may hit a few of them in the low 1500s and 1400s, but they'd fall so fast that you can't assume they are in any large percentage of your games.

Lastly, if my post was too long and you didn't read it, then don't comment on it.

[Pwn]

Now that you've stated the obvious; seriously, how are people supposed to get to the MMR they want if they play by your guide? how can they expect to be high as testie without a raging attitude, how can they expect to stomp everygame? ohh that's right, testie never solo's. I bet he's **** without a team. Implied point? You need a group of mates to get where you want to be. "faster" that is.

Played with and against testie a few times he's probably hundreds of times better than you. Also most of the teams he plays with include noobs who pay him to play with/carry them.

But no, he's not the best player in hon by a longshot.

[bOOxO]

why do i see paragraphs? i thought 2 words ^-^ heres mine!

play tmm

[Abster]

I always try to be a nice guy. What gets me in the end is when my team decides to derp around like idiots and throw a won game.

i can say right now that about 40 % of ALL my losses has been due to situations like this-

- Enemy team pushes mid rax, my team decides to counterpush tier 1 tower and lose rax

- We just geno'd the enemy team, my team decides to go back to well becuase they have 20% mana missing

- After genocide, team goes to a lane that has a destroyed rax and starts hitting on creeps in their base instead of getting another free rax, till the enemy respawns, our carry fails to get back and dies. 90 sec respawn. gg

- team used ALL their ultis on an illusion. Still push to clash.

- defending 2v5

My question is.. how do u make your positive attitude keep people from throwing games.. how can u work with brain dead people, who only know how to gank but have ZERO strategy sense??

[ItsBroIsntIt]

I gotta say, this is a nice idea and all, but serves no practical purpose. The key to upping your mmr is simply playing well and going mid. Do not play carry, as you rely on support. Just take over games as semi-carry.

I have 4-5 accounts at 1800+ all from solo queue.

I do not positively reinforce my teams, in fact quite the opposite. If people are failing hard, I do not shy from telling them.
Fact is, this idea is just that. A nice idea, it really will not help your MMR, but rather make you a nicer teammate.

[Clytemnestra]

Gonna bump this as I saw it in another thread, reminded that I read it in the past and want other people to see it and that it works.

[Gringoire]

...For instance, you have a Keeper of the Forest who is not helping in teamfights like he should and has been pretty much only farming for 20+ minutes. Chances are, your team will blame him for a death or a bad fight. In most regards, this may have been his fault for not being there, but how can that be seen as a positive? Answer? You have one of the tankiest, best teamfight, strongest push heroes in the game FREEFARMING. Tell your team that "It's fine. He's gonna rape lategame. Let's just pick smart fights until he's ready to push."

Nice. Which would be your positive answer when a Armadon lev 10 spends his time in jungle (being killed by neutrals) when the rest of team is losing 2 or 3 teamfights in middle lane because of no tank?

[Rhayne]

Being positive while the rest of your team isn't trying to hear it is more likely to piss someone off if this happens repeatedly. I can't believe this thread is seriously involving psychology in a game with the worst community. Suleika gave a good example of why this tactic is practically useless. Also, I wonder what is supposed to happen if this does work.

For example, the communication is up to speed and everyone cooperates, but how does this exactly affect the players on the team who can't execute well enough due to their skill? I mean sure, the mental part of it is out of the way, but individual skill and execution is a factor as well. If the second part i mentioned was actually the case, then the first part is practically useless unless keeping everyone positive can somehow magically make the worst players start performing like stars. Kinda reminds me of Neo in that combat training machine on The Matrix. Just my opinion of course..

P.S. someone once said that "Being nice in hon is like being nice to a brick wall" I laughed my ass off.

[endra]

- Enemy team pushes mid rax, my team decides to counterpush tier 1 tower and lose rax

- We just geno'd the enemy team, my team decides to go back to well becuase they have 20% mana missing

- After genocide, team goes to a lane that has a destroyed rax and starts hitting on creeps in their base instead of getting another free rax, till the enemy respawns, our carry fails to get back and dies. 90 sec respawn. gg

- team used ALL their ultis on an illusion. Still push to clash.

- defending 2v5


- tell them to come and buy tp
- you can push instead and goad them to push with you, sometimes you can start an avalanche by trickling a small pebble
- ping the other rax, go there, start hitting it
- you can ask them to back
- ask them to back

not easy, i know, but have you tried your hardest yet? are you sure you are not making excuse? think about it, be honest with yourself

[WarderBubble]

Two words: Two words

[tommyrod]

Seriously you didn't need to write that big thread....the two words are self-explaining. xD

[Kony`ed]

My 2 words: ignored and muted.

[KingsKay]

I don't agree with communication and teamwork being the most important two words. Maybe communication. But, you can have the best teamwork on earth and still lose if your carry didn't have the skill/sense to get farm and carry.

If all else is equal, then I'd say the two most important words are communication and STUNS.

[ColdFusion17]

Wow. Just played 3-4 games and started it with a positive attitude and kept tight communication with my team, constantly updating them. Won all of them (On my sub-account). A complete turnaround from what I've been experiencing recently. Awesome guide, even though it is common knowledge; it's good to have it in text for you. Thanks for the reminder guide!