Question about griefers

[EvilStewie]

Is there a particular reason as to why people that obviously intentionally feed and ruin the game get another chance?
People that call out at the beginning of the game "I am going to lose us this game", why do they get the same treatment as people get carried away and say a few bad words?

[EvilStewie]

bumpady bump

[MacroHard]

HON is a high-skill competitive game that often requires cooperation and teamwork from complete strangers in order to be successful. This environment can be very stressful and frustrating at times, and mistakes are made. It is unfair to permanently disable an account due to a one-time indiscretion.

The suspension duration increases (and increases very rapidly) for repeat offenders. The penalty is escalated with each incident until the message gets through to the player and they learn a lesson. Unfortunately, not every player learns a lesson. If the lesson is not learned then they are suspended for weeks or even months at a time. We have had players who have been suspended for three months, only to grief again on their first day back and subsequently get suspended for six months. However this does not mean we should not give these players a chance to reform their behavior.

[EvilStewie]

HON is a high-skill competitive game that often requires cooperation and teamwork from complete strangers in order to be successful. This environment can be very stressful and frustrating at times, and mistakes are made. It is unfair to permanently disable an account due to a one-time indiscretion.

The suspension duration increases (and increases very rapidly) for repeat offenders. The penalty is escalated with each incident until the message gets through to the player and they learn a lesson. Unfortunately, not every player learns a lesson. If the lesson is not learned then they are suspended for weeks or even months at a time. We have had players who have been suspended for three months, only to grief again on their first day back and subsequently get suspended for six months. However this does not mean we should not give these players a chance to reform their behavior.
You misunderstood what I said.
People that make it their MISSION to ruin the game by griefing/feeding.
Not one time offenders.
I've seen people with accounts that have no wins/1-2wins, due to them dedicating the account purely to griefing.
Now, don't tell me you can't associate one account with another, because I know that is not true.
People that FREQUENTLY kick their team-mates just because they do not like their personality, just because they don't like that this person is not dying along side of them.
Game ID: 88641836
Got kicked out of the game for "farming".
I played the legionaire, intended to farm the basics, pk, helm, sol's.
As soon as I got to said items, I was kicked out of the game, the opposing side agreed because that would ensure them a sure win, the home team agreed because as said, I did not die along with them.
Now, you might say this is my grudge against a specific person, but no, look around the forums, I'm sure you'll find people talking of games where they got kicked because they "only farmed".
Having said what I have, my question stands; Why do you treat harmful players equally to those that get frustrated by these harmful players?
What you are doing is creating a dead cyrcle, griefers make free accounts, at the cost of 5 minutes of their time, upset legit players that actually want to play and either kick them or get them banned because these legit players can not stand griefers and start cursing at them.

[MacroHard]

I did not misunderstand.

There is already two systems in place to protect players from this.
First, the RAP system automatically scales suspensions based on player history. Repeat offenders are punished swiftly and harshly.
Second, the MMR system has an option for "Verified Only". This protects players from new accounts that may have been created for nefarious reasons.

Anybody who creates an account with the intention to grief will be caught and punished. Players who partake in "Verified Only" matches largely avoid such career griefers.

There is currently no way to protect new accounts from each other, as there is zero indication of player skill/intentions until after the match is already under way.

[EvilStewie]

I did not misunderstand.

There is already two systems in place to protect players from this.
First, the RAP system automatically scales suspensions based on player history. Repeat offenders are punished swiftly and harshly.
Second, the MMR system has an option for "Verified Only". This protects players from new accounts that may have been created for nefarious reasons.

Anybody who creates an account with the intention to grief will be caught and punished. Players who partake in "Verified Only" matches largely avoid such career griefers.

There is currently no way to protect new accounts from each other, as there is zero indication of player skill/intentions until after the match is already under way.

Alright, I get that, but, when getting to "verified" status is as easy as it is, the accounts being free to create, there is no insentive to play by the rules.
Adding that to what I said about kicking, free accounts, easy to get verified, hardly any kick abusers get caught, the system is very flawed.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is, there shouldnt even be a situation where this comes up, people breaking rules for the sake of hurting others;
What I mean by that is, usually in online games, people break the rules to gain an advantage. Here however, if you kick someone from your own team, you're creating a disadvantage or when they grief, feed, they are only hurting their own stats and account, but since the registration is free, there's nothing to worry about.
Now, perhaps I am over the line here to ask this, but, how about instead of banning the "omg you're a kid" players, the team focuses on what really matters, people that intentionally ruin the game; Perhaps take up a no-grief policy?
I know me saying this will change nothing, believe me, I've tried before, but, perhaps if you say it, someone will listen.

[MacroHard]

The verified status threshold was very carefully designed to be a healthy balance between preventing spammed accounts and allowing new players to quickly reach that level of play. If I recall correctly, it takes approximately 20 matches on average to become verified.

Very, very few players play legitimately for 20 matches (~10 hours) with the intent to grief people in verified matches on their 21st game. I am not saying it does not happen, but when it does they will be suspended if reported.

[EvilStewie]

Alright, that is one of the griefers down, professional griefers.
The next one, people that grief as they may.
So, from what I've learned, these people play with their team, help others etc, UNTIL they do bad at the start of a game.
When this happens they will start going off, feeding, spamming concede, spamming kick on the players that do not agree with the concede vote etc.
You might say, that those kicks are reasonable, that those people were holding the others as hostages.
That would be the case if all heroes were equal, if everybody would play the same and so on so forth.
When a glacius starts with 0-4 and starts griefing, just because they didnt get a 5 minute midas on a glacius, all the meanwhile a forsaken archer being at 500 gpm.
Now, that is just when someone gets mad and feeds.
But, when your team in general is doing good, you're doing very good but then theres a group of 2-4 people in your team.
Now, just for the sake of getting your items, they would kick you, of course, the opposition would agree because that gave them a higher winning chance.
Your team would agree because they are already doing good, "No way we can lose, right?".
For the sake of you, I will stop here, I could go on and on about what is wrong with the game and/or how to fix it, but there is no real point.
What my point is however, you being a GM, could let the development/balance team, whoever know what is actually wrong.
Instead of making 300 gold alt avatars every week, they could actually fix their public scene.

[MacroHard]

"What my point is however, you being a GM, could let the development/balance team, whoever know what is actually wrong."

I have no clue as to what you feel is wrong. The developers cannot prevent somebody from playing poorly, selfishly, etc. All we can do is suspend players that break the Rules of Conduct after the fact.

I would love to communicate directly with the developers on your behalf, but you must first provide me with tangible suggestions or a clear indication of "what is actually wrong."

[EvilStewie]

What actually is wrong is, the punishment system is one-leveled.
You get banned for a few days, then a week and so on so forth.
There needs to be a strict rule about intentional griefing/feeding.
This is what is directly destroying the game, this is what does not deserve a second chance.
You grief, you get banned, no buts ands ors about it.
My suggestion: first time griefers/feeders get their ACCOUNT banned for life.
If another case comes from the same person/IP, they get that IP banned.

[MacroHard]

My suggestion: first time griefers/feeders get their ACCOUNT banned for life.

We believe this solution to be excessively draconian. Most players who are suspended by RAP do not repeat offend, indicating that the 3 day ban and threat of a week or longer suspension is sufficient deterrent for the majority of players. If we can get a player to reform their behavior then that is the best for everyone involved.