Brutalizer Rework

[SomaZ]

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Brutalizer.jpg

Hi!
The problem with the current Brutalizer is that it's too situational. The Strength + Agility bonus it gives makes this item good on agility heroes (since they usually need more hp and strength gives just that) while at the same time making it a bad pickup on strength heroes since they don't really benefit much from the agility. Furthermore, the item is based on chance and nearly useless on ranged heroes which makes this item a possible pickup only on very few fast attacking melee agility heroes (and even then it's questionable).

I propose a remake of the item that will hopefully accomplish several goals:
Make the item more viable on heroes other than fast attacking melee agility ones.
Make the item less random.
Not use overused items as recipe components if possible.
Help against the current tanky metagame and be a good option against tanky heroes.
Make sense.

Old version:
Recipe:
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_MightyBlade.jpg + http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Quickblade.jpg + http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/recipe.png
Mighty Blade (1000) + Quickblade (1000) + Recipe (1100) = 3100 Total
Stats:
+ 20 damage
+ 10 strength
+ 10 agility
Bash (Passive, 25% chance to stun for 1.4 seconds and deal 25 bonus damage, 2 second cooldown, 10% and 1 second stun for ranged heroes)

New version:
Recipe:
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_MightyBlade.jpg + http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_MajorTotem.jpg + http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Punchdagger.jpg + http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/recipe.png
Mighty Blade (1000) + Major Totem (540) + Punchdagger (500) + Recipe (1000) = 3040 Total
New Stats:
+ 20 damage (+11 for completing recipe)
+ 15 strength (+1 for completing recipe)
+ 5 agility (+1 for completing recipe)
+ 5 intelligence (+1 for completing recipe)
Bash (Passive)

Bash:
On attack gains a charge. On 4 charges (melee) or 7 charges (ranged) stuns for 1.4 seconds (melee) or 1 second (ranged) and deals 5% of target's max hp in bonus physical damage. 2 second cooldown (charges are not gained).

Thus, bonus damage is 50 against a 1k hp hero (25 before) or more against higher hp targets (up to 150 against 3k hp heroes). It's also charge based instead of being chance based (removing random) and usable on ranged heroes (10% was way too low before, 7 charges is about 14% on average). Total recipe cost is almost the same, stats are more skewed towards strength and now it's a good pickup against tanky targets.


Changelog: Brutalizer v1.1
- Added Punchdagger to the recipe
- Reduced recipe cost by 500 (1500->1000)
- Total recipe cost and stats remain the same
Reason:
+ Reduces the cost of the recipe component.
+ Makes the buildup easier
+ Adds another use to a relatively underused item
+ Adds more depth to the game (if a hero picks up a Punchdagger you don't know which item he's going for)

[Rosgath]

So it wouldn't gain charges while in CD? Hmmm interesting. Not a bad way to rework brutalizer imo and may actually make people pick it up. IDK about changing the components, but the basic premise of changing the way the proc works I like very much.

Quick Edit: How would this work on :mali: and :shad: both of whom can change from melee to ranged? (or :myrm: for that matter though I doubt it'd get much show time on :myrm:) Would it reset charges when they change attack mode or would they just have to switch to building higher because they are now ranged and retain any charges?

[SomaZ]

Quick Edit: How would this work on :mali: and :shad: both of whom can change from melee to ranged? (or :myrm: for that matter though I doubt it'd get much show time on :myrm:) Would it reset charges when they change attack mode or would they just have to switch to building higher because they are now ranged and retain any charges?

The best way to do it would be to just continue gaining charges. So if you switch to ranged and already have 3 charges it would just continue gaining them until you have 7 (ranged version). At the same time you can acquire, say, 5 charges in ranged form and then switch to melee. In that case you retain 5 charges but will simply proc the melee stun on the next hit (6th charge).

Glad you liked the idea!

[SomaZ]

Bump

[TheDefqon]

Brtualizer is very strong on these fast attacking carries like mb. A guaranteed proc on every 4th attack would pretty much result in a perma-bash on these heros. I think it's fine like it is right now.

[SomaZ]

Brtualizer is very strong on these fast attacking carries like mb. A guaranteed proc on every 4th attack would pretty much result in a perma-bash on these heros. I think it's fine like it is right now.

Please re-read the suggestion, permabashing is impossible (because of the cooldown) and it's "Brutalizer" not "Brtualizer". But thanks for being a jerk to me man :)

[Sherwood]

Due to my shallow understanding of the deep maths of HoN, I cannot critique the proposed item used, but I agree there is a problem with the item.

One hero I'd consider it core currently would be an Accursed when building it with Frostburn and Daemonic Breastplate. He'll have sufficient attack speed to make use of it, benefit from the strength and due to the amazing synergy between his Sear and Frostburn, help him establish his role as "Odd Anti-Carry".
Problem is, to make the full use of the item, you need a certain amount of attack speed and be melee. If you're ranged, you may as well go Savage Mace (or Hellflower for a softer and more reliable disable). By the time you have the attack speed as a melee to make use of the item, there could be better items to pick up. Works well early on I suppose on a Warbeast.

Problem with Brutalizer is that it's a cheap item that is a dead end. Instead of building a Wingbow/Behemoths heart you get something over half-price that may let you 'stun lock' one player (with enough speed). The time in the game where the stats from current brutalizer would be a fair option (building items like Icebrand/Sol's Bulwark/Codex etc) you won't have enough attack speed to make use of it.

So yes, I agree it needs to be changed or be upgradable (like Assassin's Shroud was). DotA2 lets you stick a Sword of the High on top of it.

[Token]

Good idea in both senses, easier and more effective component buildup, and better passive. I'm a very unlucky player so % based items and abilities dont treat me well, and a charge based system for bash would become very viable on certain heros, as you attack some creeps so your next hit stuns, then leap/pk/blink onto your enemy to stun them (think what chronos players do)

[Wyverex]

Just to put it out there, you could hit creeps 3 times before going to the fight and have a 100% sure 1,4 sec stun on your first hit? That sounds a bit too powerful.
Charges could/should be removed if you don't attack for, let's say, 5 seconds?

I quite like your proposed change, but at the same time... it could be a bit too powerful. So a change that is in line with how Legionnaire's spin works (he loses charges if he is not attacked) sounds in order.

[_BIGboss_]

brutalizer it's ok to me, dont need any change

[RTudoRR]

No. Crappy idea

[_hidanboss]

lol no

[Balak]

No. Crappy idea

that

[SomaZ]

Clan VVCL strikes again.

[Daaaaaaaark]

major totem is already in 3 items
since this is an item for combat how about putting in a soulscream ring instead (so that there is a reason to buy soulscream ring over grave locket for once)

[Zarothe]

This change actually makes it a very powerful item with a free 1.4 second stun and decent damage buff. 150 bonus damage is nothing to scoff at considering that doombringer gives you simply 250 for over 2k more in cost. I dunno if this change makes this item too powerful. It is certainly a major buff to it though.

[Squiq]

No. Crappy idea

Agreed.