Which Witch Is Which?: A Guide to Witch Slayer.

[CronoDroid]

REPOSTED HERE: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=1626961

[CronoDroid]

Removed

[Jack_3d]

Great guide! Used to hate in DotA when lion would have sheepstick, he would voodoo you hit u a couple times.. impale hit more.... sheepstick you hit more... finger, dagon dead dead. Many rage quits from this haha.

[PoopyDesires]

I built completely from scratch never having played Lion before with steamboots, SotM, and sheepstick. Worked relatively well.

Great guide though, obviously better then my pub build.

Btw you state that his ult is like Pyro's ult but worse, but I find the level 1 version of his ult is infinitely better then Pyros for early killing. 1 stun to harass whoevers in your lane, 1 more stun and an ult for a very easy kill.

[CronoDroid]

I didn't say it was worse, just weaker (at higher levels). At level 1 it does do 50 more damage than Pyro, I'll add that in. As for stunning twice, harassing and ulting, I find Pyro's Dragon-Phoenix-Ult combo is much more powerful, after all they are nukes. Only Impale does damage for WS, Pyro gets two damage dealers.

[Maddogme]

I found this guide amazing, just played my first game with him, basicly followed this guide to the word, and walked out with 9-2. Playing against a well fed Arachna D:


A few games later.

19-2-10

[majik]

You said that Mystic Staff gives you +25 agility :p Only mistake I suppose

Nicely written guide btw.

[CronoDroid]

Noted!

[Grandiose]

Can you add a little part at the end for Luxury items such as refresher for Ws ?

[CronoDroid]

Refresher? Really? I don't feel that Refresher is a particularly good choice on him (neither is Dagon, but whatever), and any extra gold you have left at the end should be used to buyback if needed, buy more wards, or put into the other items in my build.

But I might add a section like that for people that are unsure of what to buy.

[Midnightoil]

You donht rly needa ny mana regen early so a resto trinket and minor totems would rly be the best choice not some useless manabattery..

[CronoDroid]

You donht rly needa ny mana regen early so a resto trinket and minor totems would rly be the best choice not some useless manabattery..

What? You must be kidding me, yeah let's sit all that mana instead of going around ganking with Graveyard and Miniaturize...Mana Battery is the opposite useless, especially on Lion. Jeez.

[Maddogme]

You donht rly needa ny mana regen early so a resto trinket and minor totems would rly be the best choice not some useless manabattery..

Man, how wrong you are.

That mana battery has saved my ass a couple times.

[Blockk]

Someone was in a hurry to do a Witch Slayer guide.

Anyways, good guide.

[CronoDroid]

Well he wasn't a new hero, so I quickly threw this together to make sure SOME people wouldn't go around playing him very badly during the first few days or weeks of his release.

[ElementUser]

Cool screenshots on Silver Bullet!

You might want to check this thread for the exact AoE of Graveyard/Impale (it's the last screenshot), as it's not actually fully linear: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=30793. Graveyard has a max range of 700, but since it's based on many AoE circles arranged in a line (and each circle has 150 radius), the last circle 700 range away extends the max range to 850.

Also, Power Drain has a channel range of 800 (meaning after you cast it, it'll channel until the enemy is 800 range from you, or your spell gets interrupted, or the enemy runs out of mana).

[CronoDroid]

Ooh, good to know.

[Ragnarok17]

What do you think about Nome's Wisdom for a support build? Lion will be able to heal himself quite a lot with his high mana skills (like 300 or so), along with the others on his team.

If a Lion gets Refresher, then it would help even more XD.


Good guide btw! It's a good idea to break down the builds and show the options even if some may not be the best ideas. I like that you pumped this guide out pretty quick :D.

[Testknight]

Great guide. I read your MQ guide btw (back when it was in Drafts). That was great too (although I feel you underrated her a bit, she's not bad enough to be called a pubstomp hero).

[Informer]

nice guide, thanks for the effort, found one typo so just to let u know:

on silver bullet you write "Level 1 is 50 damage" two lines further you say 500 tho :D

[Richardus]

it says: Level 1 is 50 damage stronger than Pyro's

[CronoDroid]

No, I said "Level 1 is 50 damage stronger than Pyro's"

[Ragnarok17]

Lol. Two posts in the same minute o.0.

[Clyne]

i'd rather build a harkon blade.

[legacy800]

This guy doesn't need any mana regen what-so-ever so it is a waste of money to invest in a bottle and mana battery.

You can actually use your power drain on enemy creeps(archers, warlocks) that have mana, so as soon as you have it on level2 you should just keep using it on recharge that way you should never get low on mana in a lane and can actually spam your stun.

And for people saying that bottle gives health and a mana battery can save your ass it's better to invest that money in survivabilty items like a helm than.

Anyways I think it would be pretty nice to add that you can use it on creeps since alot of people don't tend to use it that way and try to use it on enemy heroes wich is alot harder.

And for the rest this guy should be build a bit like a pyro for pubstomping, you already have a disable so by going Sotm and Codex think of it like a second dsiable since you will pretty much instagib a non-strength hero in a teambattle and take one out.

[Clyne]

This guy doesn't need any mana regen what-so-ever so it is a waste of money to invest in a bottle and mana battery.

You can actually use your power drain on enemy creeps(archers, warlocks) that have mana, so as soon as you have it on level2 you should just keep using it on recharge that way you should never get low on mana in a lane and can actually spam your stun.

And for people saying that bottle gives health and a mana battery can save your ass it's better to invest that money in survivabilty items like a helm than.

Anyways I think it would be pretty nice to add that you can use it on creeps since alot of people don't tend to use it that way and try to use it on enemy heroes wich is alot harder.

And for the rest this guy should be build a bit like a pyro for pubstomping, you already have a disable so by going Sotm and Codex think of it like a second dsiable since you will pretty much instagib a non-strength hero in a teambattle and take one out.

Worth noting is also that Mana Drain ability is a non agressive spell, Meaning you wont draw aggro from creeps draining heroes, you wont draw aggro draining mana from creeps in jungle camps.

Also it is very important to keep mana pool topped in all situations, since he got very expensive spells, 1 cycle at maximum lvls = 650 + 200 + 175 = 1025 mana, 1025 MANA!!! it might be therefor Nome's wisdom is a recommended items on this hero. returs 25% of that mana spend in HP = 256

edit: dont spend point on mini until you maxed Power Drain and and Graveyard. Power Drain is ZE lane harrassing spell. and there wont be much lane harrasssing at higher lvls,

Its not like you enter a team battle and initiate with mana drain...

[Informer]

No, I said "Level 1 is 50 damage stronger than Pyro's"

ok, my bad then

[Griddler]

Played a few games with him last night:

I build gy/drain/gy/drain/gy/ult/gy/mini/mini/mini. At rank 2 drain is good enough to keep you topped up for a while by draining archers, and hex will start to become more important than drain as you leave laning phase around level 8-10.

I find it tough to use drain much once teamfights begin and laning ends. Standing still draining an enemy hero is a recipe for death during a fight, and creeps will get wiped out by various AoE. So rank 2 is good for laning then move on to hex which will be far more useful to you.

Item build:

Start: 2x minor totem, 2x pretender crown, 1x runes (replace 1 crown w courier if desired)
then: marchers, 2x fortified bracer
then: steamboot (sell totems), glowstone.
then: sotm, platemail
then: frostfield plate (luxury)

You may swap platemail/frostfield for something like shrunken head or barrier idol if facing more of a magic oriented team than a physical damage team.

I find what matters for me is to not die, so I leave steamboots on str. steamboots + 2x bracer + sotm = very nice hp gain. If you grab the armor you're now pretty tanky and can sitback and launch your spells pretty safely.

Wards and homecoming stones should be obvious. One issue you will find is that with 2x bracer, boot, homecoming stone once you start building sotm you have to juggle inventory and can't really support carrying wards much until sotm is done.

Any tips on using mana drain would be appreciated. I'm guessing during lane the best thing to do is stun and drain, rather than stun and attack - unless you're just going to drain archers for mana. But if you want to hinder enemy and not have them just run away, stun drain is the way to go?

[CronoDroid]

i'd rather build a harkon blade.

No. Since when has your job description included "autoattacker"? You might as well use that Mystic Staff to build Guinsoo's and actually be useful.


This guy doesn't need any mana regen what-so-ever so it is a waste of money to invest in a bottle and mana battery.


Wrong. His spells cost a lot of mana in case you haven't realized and you need burst mana regen while running from lane to lane ganking.


And for people saying that bottle gives health and a mana battery can save your ass it's better to invest that money in survivabilty items like a helm than.

No. Hell no. Helm is 4/5 of the way to Mystic Staff, and gives you no mana regen...I'm not even gonna get into the discussion about the item itself, because even with the buff it still sucks.


Anyways I think it would be pretty nice to add that you can use it on creeps since alot of people don't tend to use it that way and try to use it on enemy heroes wich is alot harder.


This I will add.



And for the rest this guy should be build a bit like a pyro for pubstomping, you already have a disable so by going Sotm and Codex think of it like a second dsiable since you will pretty much instagib a non-strength hero in a teambattle and take one out.

I already explained that this build is stricly for scrubs and guides are meant to be conducive to promoting "good" if not "pro" gameplay. As such, I will not recommend playing Lion with Codex but merely explain that it is a popular build and thus should be included for reference. IMO you should almost always build Sheepstick unless you have someone like Polly who is building it and you can go for Puzzlebox.



Start: 2x minor totem, 2x pretender crown, 1x runes (replace 1 crown w courier if desired)
then: marchers, 2x fortified bracer
then: steamboot (sell totems), glowstone.
then: sotm, platemail
then: frostfield plate (luxury)

You may swap platemail/frostfield for something like shrunken head or barrier idol if facing more of a magic oriented team than a physical damage team.

I find what matters for me is to not die, so I leave steamboots on str. steamboots + 2x bracer + sotm = very nice hp gain. If you grab the armor you're now pretty tanky and can sitback and launch your spells pretty safely.



You shouldn't have to build him like a tank because generally you'll be the one getting the jump on the enemy. You won't be initiating anyway, so all you have to do is run in after someone initiates and cast. Barrier Idol is also much more useful (and cheaper) than Frostfield. If you're not facing ANY magic damage whatsoever, you're either playing EM and you're ****ed for choosing WS or you're playing noobs and should probably get Codex/SOTM for the hell of it.

[Griddler]

Assuming that you're getting the jump, and assuming the enemy won't focus you, is making an awful lot of assumptions that strike me as wrong if you're pugging.

Although the game is usually decided by the time I finish SOTM, remaining gold has to go towards something. It's probably fair to say that Kuldra is the go-to option, with barrier idol vs some teams if nobody else on your side has gathered it yet.

To be honest I would usually just get the platemail and then the game would be over before id get the 2700 for acolyte's staff and frostfield - i.e. regardless of what luxury you pick it wouldn't be completed. Probably right tho that with boots/bracers and disables frostfield is a subpar pick.

Sheepstick / Barrier - codex if its nub city.

[CronoDroid]

I would also get Sheepstick before SOTM, boosting the ult is not really all that special since it doesn't scale well. Sheepstick is always relevant. The point is, the +25 Int staff should almost always be used for Sheepstick because it is by far the best option. It also gives you HP, MP and mana regen like SOTM, only much more of the latter. You'll be set for mana when you get your Sheepstick.

[pwnertime]

nice guide mate.

[Kralnor]

With the new targetable Graveyard it is possible to fully exploit stun+drain during the laning phase. Simply use shift to queue up drain right after you stun. So, hold shift, hit graveyard, hit the enemy, quickly hit drain and hit the enemy. Voila, you will now start draining ASAP. You can basically stun indefinitely this way, never run oom and suck your enemy dry.

[CronoDroid]

This is true, althought frankly Graveyard was never that hard to aim properly, not like Dragonfire or Chain Reaction anyway.

[_Archangel_]

Mana Drain is completely optional IMO. If you do take it at level 2 and 4, there's no need to max it; stats are better. If you don't, no need to take it at all, leave it till 22-25.

[CronoDroid]

I find that at least one or two levels is helpful because even though you will have Bottle and Power Supply, there will be times during a game where there is a helpful ranged creep to mana drain or a neutral. A lot of ganks happen in the jungle, a few seconds spent mana draining after a gank will keep your regen supplies lasting longer.

It is situational however, maybe if you're getting owned particularly hard you might need a few levels of stats. But I've found that in most games, there is an excuse to use mana drain at least once or twice in-lane, if not on an enemy hero than a ranged creep.

[Tapioka]

I think its very funny, that this guide offers a bunch of item-build, but says that witch slayer just got 1 role to play and doenst need tank items, because team fights are all the same.

Its very close-minded, that you "dont have to buy" something, because you wont get into that situation.

Half the games i played, i was focused for the reason that i can disable so much. Why should they ignore me? This guide uses the word "noob" all the time, but most of the comments are depending on noobs in the other team.
If the enemies are good, than you have to face disablers, semi-carries etc. too and they are definatly going for you. Now its time for decision: Do you save your ass by using your spells or do you morph/stun the more important heroes and win a fight?

Not a good guide, to much situation paired with own opinion.

[Ndrd]

Nice guide, I'll be sure to try out some of these next time I play ws.

[lLOlBO]

best guide by far!

[Zehbear]

I see Staff of the Masters? I say no.

There are 2 heroes that I absolutely hate Staff of the Masters on, guess who? Witch Slayer (Lion) & Pyromancer (Lina). I mean seriously, what are you going to do with the extra 200 damage. Oh, and survivability? Bracers really suffice; you say no mana, look at your third skill - a bottle/mana battery can really compensate for his "lack of mana". You shouldn't even have included the first build. You're just justifying the pubbers always stealing your kills on a ******* supportive hero. Geez...

[CronoDroid]

I enjoy feedback whether positive or negative, but please try to make sense if you're going to post.


Now its time for decision: Do you save your ass by using your spells or do you morph/stun the more important heroes and win a fight?

Um, what? I already gave you tips on what to do...you hex their carry, stun whomever and use your ult on the enemy's caster/enemy who is getting focused. Your post makes zero sense.


I think its very funny, that this guide offers a bunch of item-build, but says that witch slayer just got 1 role to play and doenst need tank items, because team fights are all the same.

Its very close-minded, that you "dont have to buy" something, because you wont get into that situation.

Half the games i played, i was focused for the reason that i can disable so much. Why should they ignore me? This guide uses the word "noob" all the time, but most of the comments are depending on noobs in the other team.
If the enemies are good, than you have to face disablers, semi-carries etc. too and they are definatly going for you.


What the hell does this post even mean?

Yes, because I have zero HP items at all in my guide! And "one role to play"? Yeah, that's right, when I said he can be a roamer, a disabler and a support, THAT'S JUST ONE ROLE. Of course you're going to be focused, and I even MENTION GETTING TANK ITEMS IN THE GUIDE (Pipe/Shivas).

Wow, get out. If you want to offer feedback, at least be coherent.


I see Staff of the Masters? I say no.

I see failure to read and compherend? I say you're an idiot.



There are 2 heroes that I absolutely hate Staff of the Masters on, guess who? Witch Slayer (Lion) & Pyromancer (Lina). I mean seriously, what are you going to do with the extra 200 damage. You shouldn't even have included the first build. You're just justifying the pubbers always stealing your kills on a ******* supportive hero. Geez...

Hello, READ THE GUIDE if you're gonna comment, because you are DEAD WRONG. Actually, I should include a very common and popular build WHILE discussing its merits, or in this case, its drawbacks. I said don't buy it in the guide, so shut up. It's a useful learning tool to discuss a widely used option and actually explain why it is not effective.

Child, please. I ain't justifying ****, if pubbers read this guide and decide to build SOTM/Codex then they either made a conscious decision to do it against my advice or didn't actually read what I had to say on the manner. Therefore they can't justify their decision using my guide because I specifically warn AGAINST using the build. Think for a second.


Oh, and survivability? Bracers really suffice; you say no mana, look at your third skill - a bottle/mana battery can really compensate for his "lack of mana".

Bracers? I love bracers on many a hero, but I have already outlined why I chose not to include bracers in my build. I choose to get an item that boosts his mana pool because you WILL be using your abilities often. Glowstone gives the best HP/Mana boost for its price.

Additionally, I would like to say your comments are poorly worded. I have no idea what you're trying to say in regards to "lack of mana" and "compensate". A larger mana pool is good, you seem to be suggesting that his mana pool is either sufficient so you should get bracers (it isn't, not if you're roaming and ganking fairly often), or his mana pool is not sufficient, in which case you wouldn't get bracers anyway and get a glowstone like I said.

You'll be carrying:

1. Bottle
2. Power Supply
3. Homecoming Stones
4. Glowstone/Wards
5. Steamboots (or maybe the new Plated Greaves)
6. Core Item

I would not swap out the glowstone for the bracer. And it even builds into something, either SOTM or Sac Heart, and the latter can let you tank slightly better than usual too.

[jjcf89]

Pictures are broken

[CronoDroid]

Bump, this needed some updating with the continual boots/Vanguard changes.

[yoona_]

good guide, i liked it :)

[Lancore]

1 in graveyard till miniturization is maxed.

[Electroid]

I found that i love to get astrolabe w/ this hero , although i don't make him full support, i liket he uber ganker build tho xD looks amazing.