Is He Competitive? (Puppet Master)

[F8]

PUPPET MASTER

Hero information: Puppet Master (http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroview.php?hid=91)

Why He's Competitive


Ranged DPS.
Decent lane control.
Excellent harassment.
Strong disabler.
Flexible item builds.



Why He's Not Competitive


No escape skills.
Lack of AoE disables.
Lack of AoE damage.

[Ernie888]

i am not a top player nor do i pretend to be. But i would imagine his disable the rubber band thing, wont work in top level play unless your chasing a solo hero. Which doesnt happen often in these high lvl games ive been watching. Teams are VERY quick to back up and super map aware.

As a int support / carry he's ok but in top lvl play, there are many better carries so he'll be support. and there are much better support heroes as well, pyro, hell bringer, plague (plaque if your canadian lol) being the top three.

Also green vine 5th hit splash thing has been nerfed now and well he wasnt picked before the nerf so i cant see him being that viable now. Still great for pub stomping though :)

Sorry i dont know the names but you'll get the picture

[Forfeit]

Actually, green vine 5th hit splash thing got a buff if anything. Who cares if it can't double crit now, that was a pub build anyway.

[Medio]

I definitely think he can be used competitively, if farmed, he can be a great asset to the team. Especially with puppet show late game, cast it on their carry, destroy their team.

[Skasian]

IMO... his a decent back-up carry as he's able to farm ok.

But I think situational. (Too many counter combos)

Still viable cause...
Team Fights
- Puppetshow can take an enemy hero 'out' for it's 5.25 sec.
- If strong melee carry, Puppeteer's Hold can hold the carry out of attack range.
- Ulti, makes quick work of those support nukers in the back who keep backing out of attack range (since ulti has a decent 'channel-break' range).
- AOE is defintely missed with this hero in terms of nukes, but Whiplash saves him slightly in this field.


Still agree with the points OP makes, especially on flexible item build.

[Ernie888]

can you not dispel puppet show? (genuine not sure) if so thats just a very simple counter. making 2 skills almost null'd

or just Shruken head walk in and pound down puppet. cant see it taking more than 5 seconds. i think thats his problem. too many counters

personally id prefer a sand wraith / maliken fed up if anything. The risk : reward is too high with puppet.

[Jager]

Imo he's a competitive level pick, especially when you take into account if other have already been banned. You can get items like shroud or portal key to make up for his lack of an escape mechanism. And when you get enough dps his whiplash provides decent AoE damage.

[IH8Pants]

He's been used recently in many scrims and tournament matches as the carry and turned the tides of those matches in his own respect.

Definitely a competitive pick, and a damn good carry.

[HellFire69]

He's terrible, do not pick him!

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Of course he is, he is one of the most flexible heroes that you can pick.

He can solo, he can dual lane, he can get support items, disabling items, carry items, you name it :)

[Cheese]

Puppet Master is one of the most competitive heroes I know. He gets REALLY mad if he loses.

I hope he gets elected as a competitive hero, though. It would be a shame if he didn't and no one was allowed to pick him anymore!

[Southie]

puppet master is one of the most competitive heroes i know. He gets really mad if he loses.

I hope he gets elected as a competitive hero, though. It would be a shame if he didn't and no one was allowed to pick him anymore!

Yes we can! Yes we can!

[jay`t]

sorry but wretched hag is the REAL int hero maverick

[RyokoHakubi]

Great counter against blink heroes like magebane (and in general, a good anti-carry). But against nukers and AoE, he is pretty lackluster. I would say situational.

[coohoor]

in all of the cws i have played so far puppet master was either first ban or first pick

he is just so strong in clanwars!! i would alwas firstpick him if he is not banned

he just has such a freaking good disable and does a huge amount of damage with very less items!!!

[zhatan]

Puppet is an awsome CW pick, often banned or picked. Awsome ganker, awsome farmer and heavy carry.

[rockchalk]

it's not a disable though, it's a semi-root.

also - barbed armor owns puppet :)

[Xasz]

it's not a disable though, it's a semi-root.

also - barbed armor owns puppet :)

I guess if he's stupid enough to autoattack you through 5 seconds of barbed armor, then yeah.

[akitoes]

The results of the poll were to be expected, not because Puppet Master is actually competitive but because he's the second most popular hero in hon

Look at his play percentage before making these polls LOL

That being said even after his latest nerfs, when played well he can easily be competitive and we all know that. NO escape abilities? Two disables.....which are escape abilities when you use them to be...lol. Hey is scout competitive? How bout pestilence? ROFL

[akitoes]

I know you're constantly high but pestilence has been competitive for ages lol.

[HatTrick]

Yes, to save myself from the fast-pick pro Puppet Master carries in pubs, I use Puppet Master as a support/disable hero.

Hes easy to farm with due to his whiplash, and it gives me the opprotunity to buy all the wards I want while maintaining a steady flow of other essentials like Assassin's Shroud


There's a reason hes banned a lot

[YoDa]

team five picked him the first chance they got (1st pick, or 2nd when we were first) and we banned him in g3 of HL $500 5v5 tourney finals

[kuroYMT]

Polls have significance in beta? lol.

Situational pick really, really shines when the other team has jereziah.

[Vinthian]

Having not read any of the other replies, I'd have to say that he's very situational. This guy is neither a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd pick. You need to see at least half the other team to see if he'll be useful/viable. Anyways, he's very good 1v1, and with support, but he needs quite a bit of farm, like any other hero.

[IH8Pants]

How is he even situational. Explain to me when there's a situation where he's not a good hero. He's not really a hard counter so explain.

I just don't get the logic in saying that u need to see half the other team to see if he'll be useful of viable. The only heroes that really even counter him are purgers for his disables (Jere, Accursed, etc)

I constantly watch teams, that have more experience with this game on a competitive level then 90% of the poster in this thread, first pick Puppet, or ban him outright. AngryTestie helped 5 to a win in Game 1 of the HL Finals by playing a 1st pick puppet to 12-1.

Hell even one of the people who put him as a non competitive hero in the poll just 1st picked him in 2 scrims I played in last night. I also scrimmed with a team and explained the worth of Puppet, which they chose to ignore saying Puppet isn't good, watched the opposing team 1st pick Puppet and proceed to dominate our team with him going 6-0 by 30 mins.

Puppet continues to bash it's critics even post nerf by proving to be a relevant 1st-2nd pick hero in numerous competitive tournaments/scrims. Def. a good pick.

[Extreme_Cake]

The way I see it, he's an excellent laner (if vulnerable to very strong lanes with good aggression such as Sven/Lina), an excellent ganker and a very handy hero as the game goes on. Definitely competitive.

[Alventenie]

Puppet is a very strong hero. Watch the clan clan vs five semi finals (i think its game 1 or 2) where testie lanes puppet with accursed vs a hammerstorm/pyro lane and just dominates the lane. Puppet is interchangable in most lanes and can perform many roles with easy farm.

Game 1 of 5 vs WHP proves it again, where puppet gets 300+ cs and is 12-1-14 when the game ends. He is by far one of the more versatile carries in the game, its hard to see how he isn't competative when he does so much.

[sharpcat]

I'd say Puppet's true counter would be Predator. But yeah, have to agree under like 90% of circumstances he seems like a very good pick.

[MrSoloDolo]

Watch testies puppet in We Heart Pigs vs. fiVe if you need another answer lol.

[MrSoloDolo]

I'd say Puppet's true counter would be Predator. But yeah, have to agree under like 90% of circumstances he seems like a very good pick.
Puppet goes through magic immunity, if I am not mistaken. So no, puppet does pretty well as a counter vs a pred carry.

[_Archangel_]

I guess if he's stupid enough to autoattack you through 5 seconds of barbed armor, then yeah.

That gives you five seconds to beat his face while he's not hitting you.

[Ozram]

He is a bastard, and in theory all heros should be competitive, i hope in a future they will be.

[Isin]

if farmed

That right there is why he's not viable.

[Alventenie]

That right there is why he's not viable.


How so? He farms extremely well in any lane, 1v2/1v1/2v2 due to whiplash and can make early kills/gank very easily. He also can get his first items (bracers/phase) then get a helm of the dominator to stack ancients all before 20 minutes. Add that in to going into mid game where he can almost one shot creep waves with his whiplash, he is very easily a competitive hero.

[softcactus]

To any idiots saying he is not viable, I give you this finals match between WHP and 5.

http://www.fileplay.net/file/6696/hl-tournament-finals-five-vs-whp-1-2

[Lethe]

Times have changed. He used to be pretty underpowered. Now he is a powerhouse.

One of the strongest heroes to send to a solo lane bot/top. IMO the best ancient stacker/killer. Reasonable disable power, especially for a carry. Hands down, the best farmer. Works well with many items combinations, for example, savage mace+geometer's bane.

There is no question about it, he's a powerhouse. With that being said my guide needs updating, but he is nothing short of a top-5 hero atm.

[Mittsies]

He's an incredibly well-rounded hero IMO; 2 long disables (although one is only an ensnare), a painful ultimate, and plenty of late-game potential on top of it all.

[Mud_]

Watch the HL Final [5] vs. WHP. You will see if he's competitive or not!

[Euphoria]

He was never underpowered. His whiplash was and still is the strongest attack buff in the game (100% splash AOE, regardless if on a 5 hit counter is unmatched by anything but hammerstorm ultimate).

People may not have known how brokenly good he was, but trust when I say there have been pushes to nerf him since the start. The only buff he deserved was his ultimate used to have a leash of like 500 range which would break before you could even swing.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

team five picked him the first chance they got (1st pick, or 2nd when we were first) and we banned him in g3 of HL $500 5v5 tourney finals

FPing Puppet is, to say the least, weird.

You should outpick them massively if they do so.

[chofeV]

he is competitve period.

[Cheese]

Gaw Orie plz stop banning Puppet so we can be massively outpicked again


It seems like the key fallacious arguments against Puppet are:

1. "1v1" hero: any hero that can "1v1" one hero, and then immediately "1v1" another hero, and so forth...well that's not really "1v1" anymore! AOE spells aren't some supermagic autowin; single-target DPS can be an even more valuable teamfight contribution if you bring it in spades.
2. Needs farm: For one, it's not really a weakness if it's essentially impossible to stop him from farming. Also, he can start killing at Lv6 with ease.

[zhatan]

FPing Puppet is, to say the least, weird.

You should outpick them massively if they do so.

Wonder why you aint playing with the top clans then? Since you seem to know some secret they dont, or maybe you are just wrong.

[HatTrick]

FPing Puppet is, to say the least, weird.

You should outpick them massively if they do so.

He has crazy dps and two pseudo-disables with above average stat gains. There's a reason hes banned a lot