Demented Shaman

[Supremacy]

Healing Wave - Kills wards.
Entangle - 7 second slow with 2 stun components, a DoT, and persists through magic immunity... this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.
Arcane Hide - Cooldown is way too short.

Ultimate is fine.

[Wappo]

Entangle definitely isn't removed by arachna's debuff removal.

[KatyPerry]

Seriously? Demented Shaman?

Dude, he's a supporter, there's absolutely no way for him to survive alone. He can probably kill careless players, but that's it. Every ranged hero can kill dumbasses that wander into his range.

Yes, his abilties are strong, but Arcane Hide can be removed fairly easy and Healing Wave gets pretty crappy as the game drags along. And Entangle IS good, but it's not OP. I would still prefer a real stun where heroes like Magebane and chars with Vanish or Assassin's Shroud can't get away over this.

[FiNGERS]

As far as I know, each second of the 7 seconds on Entangle ALSO breaks channeling, so it's a quite useful (strong) skill.

[Eebster]

I agree, it is a real strong spell, but nerfing this can totally effect the hero in a negative way, as this is the only true powerful move he has, and it's a support spell to help others catch up.
Healing wave is real good ONLY in situations as a dmg spell, but it's always effective as an actual healing spell.

[Supremacy]

Just because he can't carry the game alone doesn't mean he's not overpowered. His support is just ridiculous. Entangle also isn't removed by Stone Hide, Hardened Carapace, or Repel (can't remember the HoN name right now...).

Maybe it's just bugs that need fixed, but this equivalent is 10000 times better than Shadow Priest from DotA.

Note that I say this as someone who actually plays him a lot, not as someone that just QQ's when they get raped by him. (Hence why he's in my signature ;))

[KatyPerry]

Of course Entangle isn't removed, if you could remove it with those skills he would be useless. Entangle and Arcane Hide are his bread and butter skills during the Mid-/Lategame, so they are perfectly fine.

He's one of the few REAL supporters in HoN, with no offensive capabilities whatsoever, so please leave him and his abilities alone. If you nerf him everybody would just pick Pollywog Priest or Voodoo Jester over him. Supporters with GREAT offensive capabilities.

[Supremacy]

That's like saying Zeus's lightning bolt should go through magic immunity since it's his bread and butter skill and would be useless without it.

[FiNGERS]

Magic immunity is magic immunity. There have been problems with magic immunity not dispelling all current de-buffs, maybe it hasn't been fixed.

I really doubt that it's intended.

[KatyPerry]

Maybe it isn't working as intended, Phasing and Wind Walking in this game is still buggy too, considering debuffs and stuns.

But dude, seriously: Entangle is fine. Puppet Masters disable is just as strong, and he has some very good offensive capabilities too.

[FiNGERS]

Do Puppet Master's abilities go through magic immunity?

[Supremacy]

I'm actually not sure if magic immune removes strings or not... I know it makes you immune to his ult though.

[KatyPerry]

No, but heroes like Night Hound just can Blink Strike/Vanish out of it, which makes this skill quite useless against those heroes you usually gank: AGI-heroes that are going to rape your ass if they're not dying enough in the early game.

[Limi]

Healing Wave - Kills wards.Has been fixed for next patch

[Kietharr]

Fix entangle not being dispelled and he's fine, he wasn't overpowered in DotA and he's not overpowered in this game.

[ndclub]

Entangle doesnt seem to give assists on its own either. I have noticed from casting it seconds before the heroes death several times without a single one.

[Hibi1]

Of all the heros to whine about Demented Shaman? He's really the last on the list of heros I'd worry about...

[Supremacy]

Guess I'm the opposite of most people... I find scout/madman/zeus/(basically everyone else) perfectly fine but this guy just seems OP... I dunno.

[MuraMasa1]

Guess I'm the opposite of most people... I find scout/madman/zeus/(basically everyone else) perfectly fine but this guy just seems OP... I dunno.


LOL I freaking rarely even see people using demented shaman.

[Tokijin`]

Supremacy, I agree with you but the majority of people don't understand the potential of this hero.

[KatyPerry]

Everybody understands the potential of Demented Shaman, he's just a 100% supporter with no offensive capabilities whatsoever. If you gank him he's head, there's no chance for him to survive.
The only thing where he's good at is buffing and assisting other players, if you take that away from him nobody would play him anymore, because Voodoo Jester for example supports just as good and does amazing damage as well.

[Tokijin`]

He has some of the best offensive capabilities in the game, rank 4 heal can almost one shot careless melee heroes, his high base damage allows for very good harassment early game with roots and if you pair him up with another hero he is unstoppable.

[KatyPerry]

Almost every double lane can kill easily in the early game if they have a disable and at least mediocre damage.

Plus as I've said, you can kill easily with every ranged hero in the game as long as you're enemy is stupid enough to walk into your range.

[Share]

The heal damage potential is totally borked.

[MuraMasa1]

Am I missing something? shamans heal is super weak..........

[Mkc]

yeah his heal does next to no damage :? and how can anyone complain about his second ability when they removed shallow grave :( to give it to him :(

[j00sh]

Uhhh why are people saying his heal does no damage? It does a ton. 100% support with no offensive capabilites? Wtf am I even reading here?

It feels so much more powerful than in dota... I don't remember heal 1-shotting creep waves in dota.

1st time I played vs him I had one heal take me to almost dead as magebane probably around level 8 while I was leveling spell resistance early... at first my friend and I were like what the hell just did that, and then I played him and realized that it does ridiculous amounts of damage for what it is.

Entangle is great throughout the game, he has an amazing early mana pool and pretty good base damage so he's one of my favorite laners in the early levels, heal does stupid damage for what it is while giving you so much staying power throughout the game... dazzle always felt offensive to me and so does this guy.

[Harrypotte2]

Everybody understands the potential of Demented Shaman, he's just a 100% supporter with no offensive capabilities whatsoever. If you gank him he's head, there's no chance for him to survive.
The only thing where he's good at is buffing and assisting other players, if you take that away from him nobody would play him anymore, because Voodoo Jester for example supports just as good and does amazing damage as well.

Are you kidding me. His ult provides insane damage increase for your whole team, after a few seconds its like heaving a double damage buff (even int heroes with no damageincrease items suddenly do decent physical damage), and after some more seconds (if the fight would last that long) the enemy has to run.

His slow also does a good amount of damage and the effect is very good + the heal does insane damage early game if the enemy is near 3-4 creeps.

100% supporter rofl... He was a ward***** in dota, but that doesnt mean he can play other roles as well.

[KatyPerry]

Dude, his Ultimate is a support ability for your damage dealers to rape even more.

[Sunforger]

Demented Shaman is underpowered and needs his ultimate changed to something more useful. Period.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Demented Shaman is underpowered and needs his ultimate changed to something more useful. Period.

I am sure that the 35% ratio guy knows best :D

Dazzle has always been a very powerful hero in Dota, now that a lot of his skills are broken/buggy, he is even more so.

[KatyPerry]

Yes, his skills are buggy, but besides them going through magic immunity at times he's fine. Don't nerf him.

[Styr]

the reason entangle goes through magic immunity is because it is a physical type. nothing wrong here

[Supremacy]

Demented Shaman is underpowered and needs his ultimate changed to something more useful. Period.

If you don't think a 36 armor swing on 10 targets (-18 for them, +18 for you) in a team fight is useful than you sir are an idiot.

I know it's situational at best, but trust me... if you have level 4 heal and level 3 root, if a ranged hero tries to kill you near creeps he is done for. Heal your creeps to destroy their creep wave, slow him, smack him, heal the creeps that are now hitting him and he's just about dead.


If you think the heal is weak then you obviously aren't using it correctly... it is just as good offensively as it is defensively. At level 4 it does 140 damage and bounces between 5 targets. That's a total potential of 700 damage, and it doesn't cost a whole lot of mana.

I find Arcane Hide to be much better than shallow grave, because you can use it on a tank going into a fight as well as when running away from one, and it allows you keep a really good mana pool as well for spamming heals and slow. It's cooldown also makes it better than Shallow Grave.

I also don't recall Dazzle's heal 1-shotting creep waves either, and with his base damage and awesome attack animation, he is extremely easy to last hit and harass with...

The reason you don't see him picked as much is only because people don't realize his potential.

[Soulspawn]

the reason why these go through magic immune it because they are PHYSICAL attack they are reduced by armour not magic armour. this hero has no magical power all his abilities effect other heroes physically.

he is no where close to op his ultimate is great but if used to early/too late its wasted.

[Evilite]

Shaman is overpowered. Not as OP as scout, but he is definitely a bit better than he should be. He is even one of the harder casters to gank because he has heal and arcane hide. In early game, if the enemy hero is surrounded by 5 of your allied creeps, you can heal all of those creeps and the enemy hero takes 5x the damage from the spell. At level 5 with the spell at level 3, this is DEVASTATING and if you follow up with a level 2 root and pair it with shaman's very good damage for a caster, you can get fed early game easily... we aren't even talking about having an ally to help finish. I went 10-1 or better the first three times I played this hero. I am usually a feeder.

[DruidFluids]

I find him quite balanced if I were to compare him to Omniknight.

[Twotall88]

As far as I know, each second of the 7 seconds on Entangle ALSO breaks channeling, so it's a quite useful (strong) skill.

only when the stun hits

[Twotall88]

Just because he can't carry the game alone doesn't mean he's not overpowered. His support is just ridiculous. Entangle also isn't removed by Stone Hide, Hardened Carapace, or Repel (can't remember the HoN name right now...).

Maybe it's just bugs that need fixed, but this equivalent is 10000 times better than Shadow Priest from DotA.

Note that I say this as someone who actually plays him a lot, not as someone that just QQ's when they get raped by him. (Hence why he's in my signature ;))

it isnt removed by those spells because its Physical dmg just like in DotA, and i also am a dazzle player and he is pretty much the same

[Twotall88]

He has some of the best offensive capabilities in the game, rank 4 heal can almost one shot careless melee heroes, his high base damage allows for very good harassment early game with roots and if you pair him up with another hero he is unstoppable.

this is completely ridiculous, his heal only does like 120 dmg if that lvl four (i havent looked at the skill recently) the ONLY way he can kill a hero with it is if they are retarded and tank creeps and why would you complain about him being able to kill a careless hero? if they are being dum let them die

[twincannon]

lol... a demented shaman thread with 2 pages

and there hasn't even been a thread on hellbringer yet

GG

[Hibi1]

Nerf this hero and I can probably promise you he will hardly be played. He's fine as is.

EDIT - any hero that does any amount of good or seems good please nerf so I can win game easy, ty... i do not like heros that seem to have potentional *sarcasm*...

[Twotall88]

Uhhh why are people saying his heal does no damage? It does a ton. 100% support with no offensive capabilites? Wtf am I even reading here?

It feels so much more powerful than in dota... I don't remember heal 1-shotting creep waves in dota.

1st time I played vs him I had one heal take me to almost dead as magebane probably around level 8 while I was leveling spell resistance early... at first my friend and I were like what the hell just did that, and then I played him and realized that it does ridiculous amounts of damage for what it is.

Entangle is great throughout the game, he has an amazing early mana pool and pretty good base damage so he's one of my favorite laners in the early levels, heal does stupid damage for what it is while giving you so much staying power throughout the game... dazzle always felt offensive to me and so does this guy.

Ok first and foremost, read the skills before you complain about them.

1. he does have a massive damage potential with his heal if all targets of the heal are around one enemy unit it will take 700 dmg (this is 140*5 at lvl four)
2. it does PHYSICAL dmg not magical spell armor would do nothing for you against this spell. this is good because EVERYONE has the potential to completely make this spell worthless (especially agi heroes who get free armor for getting their main stat)
3. you actually have to have 5 targets around someone to do good dmg with it, in a team battle this will never happen as most people dont just hone and surround one hero.

[Hibi1]

Ok first and foremost, read the skills before you complain about them.

1. he does have a massive damage potential with his heal if all targets of the heal are around one enemy unit it will take 700 dmg (this is 140*5 at lvl four)
2. it does PHYSICAL dmg not magical spell armor would do nothing for you against this spell. this is good because EVERYONE has the potential to completely make this spell worthless (especially agi heroes who get free armor for getting their main stat)
3. you actually have to have 5 targets around someone to do good dmg with it, in a team battle this will never happen as most people dont just hone and surround one hero.

What this guy said, he's fine. Stop your whining.

[Twotall88]

haha, thanks

people who are complaining need to think of a team setting, a lot of heroes arent balanced for one on one combat, the only thing shadow shaman can do really is support in team battle heal a measly 140 hp to his team with a lvl four spell and do good dmg if there are a lot of allied units around someone, as for the entangle the only thing that usually happens with it is maybe stop a channel, slow so the rest of the team can catch up give and decrease armor (DotA is the same way you know ;o)

in a THR DotA ladder the hero with the most kills was dazzle (a lot of them were ks from a lucky healing wave or poison)

[Invoker1]

Entangle is the same in this as in DotA, it always went through magic immunity.

[Twotall88]

Entangle is the same in this as in DotA, it always went through magic immunity.

the only thing that is different is the fact that they took the old poison instead of the new one (i.e. it stuns instead of just slowing to a point and gradually returning the move speed)

[Evilite]

Though possible a bit OP early game, I would agree that this hero is fine as the way he is. In fact, he could be used as a reference when balancing heroes that we feel are too weak/powerful.
I say this, because HiBi is right.

Nerf this hero and I can probably promise you he will hardly be played. He's fine as is.

[DruidFluids]

the only thing that is different is the fact that they took the old poison instead of the new one (i.e. it stuns instead of just slowing to a point and gradually returning the move speed)

I believe his poison still does stop animations/channeling effects on the 4th rank.

[Mantooth]

Something needs to be nerfed about him. He is easily one of the best heroes right now. He farms really well early game, has a good chance of getting fb, has a very spammable heal/farm ability, can keep and entire team alive in a fight, ect. I think his spells could use longer cooldowns and maybe more mana cost. It's not that the spells are op, but the spammability of them is.

[Hibi1]

Something needs to be nerfed about him. He is easily one of the best heroes right now. He farms really well early game, has a good chance of getting fb, has a very spammable heal/farm ability, can keep and entire team alive in a fight, ect. I think his spells could use longer cooldowns and maybe more mana cost. It's not that the spells are op, but the spammability of them is.
Saying Demented is the best hero in the game makes all your opinions invalid. Hellbringer is easily the best hero in the game. All you pub low level skill players can continue to whine about Mad man and scout, but I can promise you Hellbringer is ridiculous. Doesn't need to start with health regen, tanks Kognor for the team at lvl 3, etc...

[Mantooth]

Saying Demented is the best hero in the game makes all your opinions invalid. Hellbringer is easily the best hero in the game. All you pub low level skill players can continue to whine about Mad man and scout, but I can promise you Hellbringer is ridiculous. Doesn't need to start with health regen, tanks Kognor for the team at lvl 3, etc...

Do you even bother reading what people write, or do you just like to complain about things? ONE of the best heros in the game. Probably in the top 6-7. I agree that Hellbringer is very good, but this isn't the thread to ***** about him.

[Tyrando]

I believe his poison still does stop animations/channeling effects on the 4th rank.

It stuns wth do you expect?

Shaman is fine his healing wave nuke is very situational, Arcane Hide is useless v casters, his ulti well i personally hate it tbh, and Entangle just gives him that real good Assist feel.

[rhodric1]

his healing wave also damages siege vehicles.

[Tyrando]

his healing wave also damages siege vehicles.

Its Physical Damage, thats the point, is however balanced by not harming Towers.

This is also the reason it works well agaisnt Slither's Wards.

[Glorify1]

Seriously? Demented Shaman?

Dude, he's a supporter, there's absolutely no way for him to survive alone. He can probably kill careless players, but that's it. Every ranged hero can kill dumbasses that wander into his range.

Yes, his abilties are strong, but Arcane Hide can be removed fairly easy and Healing Wave gets pretty crappy as the game drags along. And Entangle IS good, but it's not OP. I would still prefer a real stun where heroes like Magebane and chars with Vanish or Assassin's Shroud can't get away over this.

You can't kill him alone, you jump on him and his creeps defend you get hit for 800 physical damage.

[Tyrando]

You can't kill him alone, you jump on him and his creeps defend you get hit for 800 physical damage.

So either time the gank when there are very few creeps, or come from behind where creep aggro range is unaffected, or damnright blow him away before he can even think of casting.

The aoe range on Healing waves dps is like 130, its not hard to avoid.

[j00sh]

Ok first and foremost, read the skills before you complain about them.

1. he does have a massive damage potential with his heal if all targets of the heal are around one enemy unit it will take 700 dmg (this is 140*5 at lvl four)
2. it does PHYSICAL dmg not magical spell armor would do nothing for you against this spell. this is good because EVERYONE has the potential to completely make this spell worthless (especially agi heroes who get free armor for getting their main stat)
3. you actually have to have 5 targets around someone to do good dmg with it, in a team battle this will never happen as most people dont just hone and surround one hero.

not complaining, just disagreeing with the idiots saying he has no offensive capabilities

but thanks for clearing that physical damage thing up dood

[THF]

Shaman is overpowered. Not as OP as scout, but he is definitely a bit better than he should be.
Hahahahahahaha.

[Drst_]

Demented Shaman is underpowered and needs his ultimate changed to something more useful. Period.

Tottaly agreed, his ulti is too "situational" It should have some otherside effect like slow/speed up enemy/team heros, maybe some +armor to team, no clue

[Pzzz10uS]

Tottaly agreed, his ulti is too "situational" It should have some otherside effect like slow/speed up enemy/team heros, maybe some +armor to team, no clue
This shows that you've probably never played Dazzle/Demented Shaman, because that is exactly what his ultimate does.

I don't understand why they would buff Dazzle when porting him into this game, because Dazzle was already an extremely strong character. His ult's AOE seems larger, Poison Touch now has 2 Malefice-esque stuns and apparently will ruin channeling, and healing touch seems to do extra damage as well. Shallow Grave -> Arcane Hide is hardly a nerf, either.

[Glorify1]

Arcane hide used to be good, bad now. Regardless, the buffs to his other abilities more than enough make up for the 'nerf'.

I don't know who invented that new Arcane Hide, but I honestly dont know what he was thinking.

That skill is just useless. In 5v5 it has no use. It reduces 6 physical attacks for 50%. A carry probably gets 10 in a second in 5v5 fights. Preety much useless :(

[Vadi]

Agree. Hide is useless now.

What I don't get is why doesn't his heal stack like nymphoras? Am I doing something wrong? I've seen a nymph heal all of their team for 60%hp late-game, yet my heal does like 2 pixels in the hp bar.

[Tyrando]

Agree. Hide is useless now.

What I don't get is why doesn't his heal stack like nymphoras? Am I doing something wrong? I've seen a nymph heal all of their team for 60%hp late-game, yet my heal does like 2 pixels in the hp bar.

It heals for 140, late game thats very little, Nymph's heals for 360 which is almost 3 times as much.

I doubt this 60% heal came from that spell alone unless they all had very low max hp.

With regards to his ultimate it definately needs changing.

And yeah.

As for his ulti. It would be much more logical that the effect is actually reversed.

Reduces and gives armor instantly and then drops down. Instead of just growing from 0-1X it whould from 1X-0

[Tyrando]

I would prefer if it actually acted like a Storm and maybe worked like Razors
ultimate and just Bolt everything in it.

Speaking of which, weres my Razor port o.0