Night Hound/SA(dota) being held back.

[Find_Destroy]

I came to the conclusion that HoN's SA will be completely delayed if you guys don't change back his base movement speed. with a base ms of 295 he is constantly in need of an Yasha/Sange&Yasha, or and slow orb so he can get to heroes and at least hit them... I just played some matches with NH/SA, and when I hadn't used SY i missed a hole bunch of kills...
you see, NH/SA as well as the dota char, is a very killer hero, and once you get your orb of slow, or an enchancement in speed, like enchanted marchers, tp boots, or SY, u're good to go, and get lot's of kills... I just think it limitates too much the item builds u'd have to work with, since you would always have to save a inventory spot for that itens.

[dxbydt]

IMO steal some ms from madman and give it to night hound, two birds with one stone :)

[Unnatural]

His movespeed was lowered because he has blink, and I don't think the movespeed is what is making him less effective.

This is untested, but it feels to me like his vanish time seems to not work if he is being stunned. I don't know if this is intentional/i'm just crazy, but I think it at least warrants a look at.

[KARTlK]

His vanish is completely broken. My level 3 vanish and I'm running through a whole bunch of heroes in a team fight that we lost, from the back (hitting int/range) to the tank and to my base, and they can still attack me for around 3 seconds. It seems like every time you get hit your vanish time resets, though I know that's not the case because I've tanked creeps and pressed hold position and eventually gone invis.

Btw, don't bother responding they had wards or dust, I know they didn't.

[SourDi3sel1]

In my opinion SA never needed in changes...His move speed is lower because of blink and he does have the cloud that does a slow aoe so no need to make him buffed more with ms. He can get op fast for a carry. At the same time the other team can simply just keep him ganked by buying dust and wards.

[zp3dd4]

there is a reason he is supposed to farm diffusal before ganking.

[krucifix]

His vanish is completely broken. My level 3 vanish and I'm running through a whole bunch of heroes in a team fight that we lost, from the back (hitting int/range) to the tank and to my base, and they can still attack me for around 3 seconds. It seems like every time you get hit your vanish time resets, though I know that's not the case because I've tanked creeps and pressed hold position and eventually gone invis.

Btw, don't bother responding they had wards or dust, I know they didn't.

Did you get hit by an AoE stun? While stunned NH's vanish is removed, and you won't start to fade until the stun wears off.

It's a change from DotA, but nothing that I felt (when playing him) was a problem I couldn't over come.

[Steakmancer]

Or you got revealed.

I really don't care about 295 ms when most riki's should have 2 very powerful slows at his disposal AND a blink.

[Brad1]

Did you get hit by an AoE stun? While stunned NH's vanish is removed, and you won't start to fade until the stun wears off.

It's a change from DotA, but nothing that I felt (when playing him) was a problem I couldn't over come.
If you stun him while he's already invisible does it make him uninvis as well? Because I thought this happened in one of my games against him and it seemed pretty cheap.
I don't remember SA working like that at all...

[Yami1]

he does not need the move speed increase because he has an aoe slow/silence, blink and normaly every riki has a diff blade

just purge them while they are in your cloud and its normaly a 100% kill

[FuzzyWuzzy]

If AoE spells reveal him, he will never see much play at all imo
All it takes is one good Behemoth or Zeus and he is toast. (Not that this was not the case in Dota, but nevertheless more so here)

[Brad1]

If AoE spells reveal him, he will never see much play at all imo
All it takes is one halfway decent Behemoth or Zeus and he is toast. (Not that this was not the case in Dota, but nevertheless more so here)
fixed, and anyone else with an AoE stun (torturer, pyro, etc)

[Fuji1]

agree give him more ms and make his cloud a little bigger

[Darwin]

His movespeed was lowered because he has blink, and I don't think the movespeed is what is making him less effective.

This is untested, but it feels to me like his vanish time seems to not work if he is being stunned. I don't know if this is intentional/i'm just crazy, but I think it at least warrants a look at.


i noticed the stuns affecting the cloak time as well. i think the cloud doesn't work as well as it did in DotA

[comp615]

I think he is fine as is. Cloud works very well, and although he is slower and invis is slightly less effective. He is still a beasty hero, it just requires that you get boots earlier if you want to be faster. If his MS gets any higher, no one will be able to get away from him

[toxicity802]

You really want quite possibly the cheapest, most annoying as **** hero in the game BUFFED?!
He has more than enough faggotry in his skill line up to make him effective at killing heroes in the cheapest possible manner.
I would rather see madman or scout buffed before NH.

[rickster]

I think an issue might be that his model is too big, so it's really easy to select/notice him.

[Twotall88]

The fact that stuns pull him out of invisibility is absolutely horrible and detrimental to his stalking ability, sure let them hit him and hurt him but not reveal him. He is already easily countered with wards or dust he doesnt need to be revealed buy stuns. More so his fade is quite.. touchy i should say i had lvl two ult and just attacked a creep and pest rounded the corner, it took him about three seconds to get close enough to me (while i was by my own tower and holding pos) and he could still see me to cast swarm on me, let me say it again, after the fade time had expired.

More so the only aoe stun that i have seen to pull him out of invisible is pestilence's not behemoth and i havent tested it with other stuns but im reporting it as a bug right after this, it is something that will make Night Hound be a worthless hero and extremely hard to survive especially in team battles.

On another note, the cloud does need a cast time boost, whats the point in having that minimal slow if the hero you are casting it on is already well through the cast aoe just by running during the cast time, it doesnt really need to be bigger (though that would be nice) or more effective but the cast time needs to be reduced by a factor of 1/4 i would say.

[THF]

Pharaoh's hellfire just kills Night Hound completely. And yes, make the model like... 60% the size it is now..

[Pentt]

Lesh's chain lightning(agonizing bonds) and Abbadon's Fire shield can also hit the new SA while he is invis, this seems problematic as he already has crappy lane control as it is.

[pwnedxx0r]

I HAVE AN IDEA LET'S TAKE A HERO THAT CAN ALREADY GO 12-0 WITHOUT A PROBLEM AND MAKE EVERYTHING BETTER. THAT WOULD BALANCE THE GAME OUT PERFECTLY.

To say something serious on the subject, his cloud silences, slows, and makes his enemies miss 70% of the time while not affecting his teammates at all; I don't know what part of that needs to be buffed.

And as to his move speed, with any kind of a slow/boot/slash(or hack, I can never remember) combination, this guy is darn near impossible to kill as is, and wipes the other team all over the floor assuming the Night Hound knows which heroes to avoid trying to solo.

I understand that the OP wanted a higher base move speed so that he wouldn't need the slash and could diversify his inventory more, but what else would you get? Slash increases move speed, attack speed, and agility, which increases Night Hound's damage by twice as much as standard damage thanks to back stab. In short, there wouldn't be a better item to get on him even WITH the increased base movement speed.

To address the problem of stuns: They do stop him from going invisible, but that was a change that I personally love, and would be very angry if it changed. The stun stopping invisible allows for heroes to at least attempt to counter him without dust or wards, though I'll admit that an AOE stun shouldn't be able to pull him out of invisibility.

[Ryno2112]

The current Night Hound is beautifully balanced. he has a very noticeable model, low HP, and is slower as to not be able to run away so easily.

He still has all his strengths such as requiring the other team to spend gold on invis disabling items and being a great gangker.

if you'd like to counter Night Hound, simply remember to carry Dust with you. night Hound's biggest advantage is that if you start to win, he can run at any time. Having dust with you allows you to take him out as he runs.

There are also four heroes now that simply counter him by being there. Arachna's ult, Tree's eyes, Scout's wards, and Pest's ult. This makes the world of HoN a dangerous place for Night Hound with Four heroes that directly counter him. Not only are there four but all four can be on a team and still do a good job. Scout is a gangker, Arachna is a carry, Tree is a support, and Pest is a tank. This on the whole weakens invisibility heavy heros in general.

[Lerker]

all AoE's should hit him (meaning the new abba's sheild SHOULD hit him), however the chain lightning should not. report that as a bug

[Twotall88]

Lesh's chain lightning(agonizing bonds) and Abbadon's Fire shield can also hit the new SA while he is invis, this seems problematic as he already has crappy lane control as it is.

abadon's shield has always been able to but lesh's attack was based off of line of sight in dota, now its a huge aoe that hits everything even if the caster cant see

[_Archangel_]

Try Nullfire Blade's Purge... sigh

[Kudryavka]

I think right now he's well balanced, but if in future versions you're able to hit him with AoE stuns that will make him visible again, he'll probably fall towards underpowered. Behemoth in particular would become a HARD counter to him, and there are already several counters to invis in the game. It seems like Scout's invis is actually better than Night Hound's.

[Find_Destroy]

I understand that he is definately a very good hero, and everything else, but I still think that improving his base ms from 295 to 300 is not a HUGE buff, like everyone is saying, and well, if it worked well on dota, why shouldn't it work as well in HoN??
I also think that SY is a must have for NH, although I find it mostly important to diversify the options in item builds, you see, otherwise we would all get tired of playing this, should I say, what's the fun in doing the same build, over and over again just to get the kills.
You see, the brilliant thing of Dota/HoN is that we have so much strategy options on winning the game, and item builds are a part of these options, and must I say a VERY important part, therefore, the slight increase in ms from 295 to 300.

[ClownFoot]

like what was already said, what would you buy if you didnt have to get slash? besides, increasing his movement speed by 5 isnt going to let him win any races, youd probably have to keep buying a slash anyway.

imo, he is the most balanced invisibly agility carry hero

[ma5]

Hi, duffusal, bye.

[FuzioN]

I came to the conclusion that HoN's SA will be completely delayed if you guys don't change back his base movement speed. with a base ms of 295 he is constantly in need of an Yasha/Sange&Yasha, or and slow orb so he can get to heroes and at least hit them... I just played some matches with NH/SA, and when I hadn't used SY i missed a hole bunch of kills...
you see, NH/SA as well as the dota char, is a very killer hero, and once you get your orb of slow, or an enchancement in speed, like enchanted marchers, tp boots, or SY, u're good to go, and get lot's of kills... I just think it limitates too much the item builds u'd have to work with, since you would always have to save a inventory spot for that itens.


you obviously have 0 clue how to play dota/hon no offence becuse first of you buy diffusial/nullblade for him and not pub items s&y.

Second have you seen how fixed his damage is? compared to how buggy he is in dota? his damage is sick here. nothing to fix really.