Real problem with scout.

[Inconmon]

Hello.

Not going to repeat the dozens threads about it, but to sum it up:

1. Scout

1) Scout is useless for the team.
2) Scout is mainly a killstealer.
3) Scout is statwhoring deluxe.

Basicly if someone picks scout your team is already at a disadvantage. And yes, I like playing against scouts. Because you win most likely and winning is fun.

2. Scout vs Bounty Hunter

Bounty Hunter is superior to scout in every way and was not a that popular hero in competitive gaming. His main role was running around ganking people to get rich and famous, as his ulti gave additional gold.
Scout is worse at chasing, worse at harass and gains no advantage vor last hits / killsteals. He shouldnt lasthit as he is no real carry anyway.

3. Changes required:
Scout needs more use for the Team, more utility maybe. At the same times his skills need to be balanced.

1) Vanish needs far less duration and(/or) increased mana cost. Vanish is simply out of line.
2) His wards suck. Period. Too long cooldown is the main problem. This could also become a "multi skill" with 3 buttons like Soulstealer nuke, so you can give him other small utility stuff.
3) Passiv feels like a waste, as you could have put in a cool active ability AND wingbow doesnt stack with his evasion and wingbow is one of the best agi lategame items.

Personally I would like to see his Ultimate replace the passive with scaled down damage, less range but shorter cooldown. Vanish +10 mana on levelups and less duration than cooldown. Electric Eye more hp and 30s cooldown, maybe even an aura effect like -1 armor or +10% damage or so.
New Ultimate could be alchemistic bundle from savage, similar to techies remote mine.

But right now scout would be the first hero I'd ban in all games I play. Just so my OWN TEAM cannot pick him.

[BleBla]

I think his ultimate is cool, the only thing they could do is remove the slow after shot.

Talking about vanish they HAVE to nerf this ability, nerf move speed by half, nerf cooldown and duration and manacost.

About wards i think they could have a better idea than that :/

[FiNGERS]

The Electric Eyes are the single best skill in HoN.

[dxbydt]

I agree with pretty much everything the opening poster said. The ulti is retarded and completely out of place. Track was way better. If they really must change him from gondar (who was perfectly fine the way he was) then reroll abilities and try again. Nobody likes a hero made to killsteal.

[Nome]

The Electric Eyes are the single best skill in HoN.

Agree here. Free wards with no placement restrictions!? SIGN ME UP.

[Tulkas]

Use ulti to slow before gank. Use eyes. Use vanish and\or ulti to get the one that got away after no one else can catch him. Use H&S to slow a fleeing hero so the team can catch up.
Actually, unless the player deliveratly runs around stealing kills, this guy is purely team player. Or at least loose ends closer. Hell, if someone is that desperate for KSing, they can always just take Thunderbringer (zeus, right?), get to level six and stand at the fountain waiting for a low hp hero to ulti.

[BotD]

-this guy has a lower chance of being picked in high level play than sniper.

-wait. sniper who?

[dxbydt]

Use ulti to slow before gank. Use eyes. Use vanish and\or ulti to get the one that got away after no one else can catch him. Use H&S to slow a fleeing hero so the team can catch up.
Actually, unless the player deliveratly runs around stealing kills, this guy is purely team player. Or at least loose ends closer. Hell, if someone is that desperate for KSing, they can always just take Thunderbringer (zeus, right?), get to level six and stand at the fountain waiting for a low hp hero to ulti.

You're in denial...

[Tulkas]

Possibly, and I admit I haven't played the game for too long, but frankly I don't see what you want.
Never had trouble with scout. Never saw him dominate a game as tottally as, say, tormentor (or is it torturer?) and he was never much of a problem to get rid of. Maybe you got to go with some players who only looked to stand invis and wait for a low hp hero to ulti, but that's hardly the character's fault.

I prefer him to Gondar. I think that not only was Gondar much more powerful, he was much more kill stealing. Hell, basically he got speed bonus instead of that gods damn shurikan that kept stealing all my kills (the new ulti takes a long time to cast, so if he got the kill with it without trying REALLY hard to KS, you probably wouldn't have caught the guy anyway).

[dxbydt]

You think people would get a clue when every single ap game has a scout, a swiftblade, and a blood hunter....

[Illyrian]

Normally I don't take part in these threads as there's always someone whining about some ability they died to a few times. But seriously take a look at the number of posts about scout. There's clearly something wrong. He is in EVERY AP game that's not high level clan play.

He needs to get vanish nerfed, his ultimate is out of place and needs the slow removed.

[KatyPerry]

Scout is probably the worst hero ever, there's no way he can kill you unless his Ultimate gets you in a situation where another player would've killed you instead of him.

And Vanish is nothing compared to Madman's Stalk. Just tone down the ability that gives 20% evasion and 15% crit. 15% evasion and 10% crit would be fine, it's two strong passives in one skill.

[KARTlK]

I agree with pretty much everything the opening poster said. The ulti is retarded and completely out of place. Track was way better. If they really must change him from gondar (who was perfectly fine the way he was) then reroll abilities and try again. Nobody likes a hero made to killsteal.

All spectre did was killsteal, and that was what he was supposed to do. He rapes/raped. I'm sure most people are fine playing with a spectre that kses since he's supposed to, but a ksing zues just makes me angry :\

[Inconmon]

BH was also supposed to get all last hits as he got a gold bonus.

I dont think his ultimate needs to be nerfed, its the only thing that actually makes him playable at all. But I do agree you shouldnt become visible when you start casting the ultimate and I'd prefer it as normal ability (downscaled; less dmg, less range, less cooldown, less manacost) instead of ultimate.

Electric Eye sucks and claiming its "the best" skill is made of fail and fail. Weaver's shades and tree's eyes are simply like 10 times better in dota.

[Tidus1]

scout is fine.
you can see electric eyes so those are fine too.
your right, he sucks with the team, but hey. some heroes are for pub play, some are for competitive play. thats just the game.

[j00sh]

scout is only useless for the team if you don't know how to play with the team

so yeah the average k : d padding codex scout is pretty useless for the team and will often end up 14-2 just to drop off the face of the map once the other team starts pushing

I've been reading forums long enough today so I'd rather not give you my entire scout strategy breakdown, so I'll just say a good player can definitely bring a lot to the table as scout, depending on hero composition, and hey that's dota. A team with a scout ksing everyone while a nighthound feeds and a bloodhunter yells at the scout for ksing might get dominated by 4 random heroes + behemoth. Oh well?

[Uludayen]

gondar>scout

[HonStinks]

Yea take off some of that speed from vanish, it's dumb. You throw dust and wards on him and then you can see him but that doesn't help much because you can't catch him if you don't stun him the very moment you see him.

[res_xenocide]

His ult feels sort of broken to me, since you have to have sight during the entire 405967 hour charge-up for the shot all someone has to do is run behind a tree/go up a cliff to get away. The ult just doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the skills.

[j00sh]

His ult feels sort of broken to me, since you have to have sight during the entire 405967 hour charge-up for the shot all someone has to do is run behind a tree/go up a cliff to get away. The ult just doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the skills.

yeah see that's another issue with scout players not thinking about the team

if you find some random hero in the jungle ok yeah he'll notice the target on his head and walk around the corner out of los

hard to give specific examples because of how situational everything in this game is, but basically if you ulti the right person at the start of a team fight it can cause quite a disturbance in my experience, and the mana cost and cooldown is so low you may have a chance to do it a 2nd and 3rd time before the fight is over.. it can be a really powerful tool

you may see scouts (or play them yourselves) getting amazing scores just to drop off at the end of the game and contribute nothing, but that has a lot to do with playstyle

[Nome]

Yea take off some of that speed from vanish, it's dumb. You throw dust and wards on him and then you can see him but that doesn't help much because you can't catch him if you don't stun him the very moment you see him.

Stuns, hexes, and holds O_O

[Steakmancer]

Just make his ult Track.

[Tr1cKSt3R]

I think his ultimate is cool, the only thing they could do is remove the slow after shot.

Talking about vanish they HAVE to nerf this ability, nerf move speed by half, nerf cooldown and duration and manacost.

About wards i think they could have a better idea than that :/

This thread is about how underpowered and pretty useless he is and you're saying nerf nerf nerf.

Anyways i don't think he's utterly useless.
I mean the wards are wonderful for putting at rune spots.
His ult, imo, is a good initiation for ganking the lanes.
I for one don't ks with him.. i run around and gank everywhere possible. Ganking with scout just wouldn't be feasible without vanish and eye's. eyes tell you where the runes are, and vanish gives you the MS to get there. than you re-vanish, position yourself, and ult someone. he's good at keeping the other team underfarmed.

[_Archangel_]

First. You call him a useless hero, then ask for his invisibility to be NERFED. Does this make sense?

Second. Scout is far more viable than Gondar ever was. Nothing like a long-ass-range massive slow/nuke to help your team own the hell out of the guy. Also a useful finishing move. This skill is FAR better than Track. Also, Wards are actually very useful to keep an eye on the runes and whatnot.

[Glorify1]

1) Vanish needs far less duration and(/or) increased mana cost. Vanish is simply out of line.
Vanish is fine, gives him map control and ability to get away from things. He needs these, as he's a useless agi hero.

2) His wards suck. Period. Too long cooldown is the main problem. This could also become a "multi skill" with 3 buttons like Soulstealer nuke, so you can give him other small utility stuff.
Oddly enough his wards are his strongest and most useful skill.

3) Passiv feels like a waste, as you could have put in a cool active ability AND wingbow doesnt stack with his evasion and wingbow is one of the best agi lategame items.
It's obviously not supposed to even get points early, as the crits aren't worth it and neither is the evasion. These points are better spend towards ward points, or stats.

I agree with your first statement about how he is a worthless hero, but your points I completely disagree with.
*Ultimate needs a buff or a complete remake. It's burst damage is too low, and it can be easily avoided.

One good way would be to make the wards you drop able to detonate, for damage or a stun, or SOMETHING aoe so he's not a complete waste of space.

[Mantooth]

The scout needs a smaller starting mana pool and lower intelligence gain. He should not be able to spam his skills without investing in some mana regen item. The slow on the ultimate is also just stupid, it should be just damage, or just slow, not both.

[brn4meplz]

His stealth is a ***** to fight but thats not what drives me nuts, it's the fact the if you see him and cast on him in time his stealth DISPELLS certain things I can't even count how many times I've cast a skill on him just to have it removed.

Also even if you know he's there AoE skills don't affect him. We had a blood hunter's thing telling us he was standing in some trees, a Nymphora tried her stun on his position and he just ran away.

Which ties into the 3rd thing, you can have an ability flying through the air about to hit him in the face and he stealth's, No mana refund, no cooldown reset, just a "Miss" notice. Certain things like Swarm should not "Miss" just because he stealthed. I can understahnd it on some abilities but the designated stealth finding ultimates should not be among that group.(Pestilence and Arachna)

[Glorify1]

That's basically skill. Using invisibility to dodge a projectile, EVEN a spell projectile, is 100% skill and should remain in the game. Sets players above other players.

[brn4meplz]

Dodging with a blink is skill dodging with vanish is... less skill. Beside if you noticed i said the Stealth detection spells. I can understand avoiding Hammer throws and fireballs and that kind of stuff.

but avoiding the detection spells?

And you can't argue that being immune to certain skills while stealth but not detected is skill? can you? it's not like the Scout gets plasma shields to avoid AoE skills

Also, it seems that if you Hit him with Cursed ground and he vanishes it removes it. bummer

[FuzzyWuzzy]

I have a good suggestion, which I think most people would like.

What made BH useful in Dota was Track. BH was used to counter Riki at competitive level of play all the time. Also Track gives bonus MS to the whole team against the tracked target, which added utility to the hero.

Mu suggestion is the following:

1. Remove Electric Eyes and swap it for Track (always seemed like a non-ultimate spell in Dota)
2. Nerf Vanish to give less MS to compensate for Track MS bonus.

I think this will add much more to the hero as it is. Any thoughts?

[Mellow]

The main problem with vanish is that it promotes a style of play where you constantly run around invisible, try to attack and then run around invisible for a while.

I said 'try to attack', because after the midgame when there's dusts and eyes there's NO way scout can use his vanish to initiate a fight.
Furthermore, it's extremely frustrating how hard he is to catch with his Vanish. It just makes him a hit and run character that isn't able to hit.

[Glorify1]

Dodging with a blink is skill dodging with vanish is... less skill


Well, with an invis you hit one key, where as with blink you hit and click. Either way, it is skill, reaction time=skill.



And you can't argue that being immune to certain skills while stealth but not detected is skill? can you? it's not like the Scout gets plasma shields to avoid AoE skills

This is a bug with unitwalking, and not intended.


What made BH useful in Dota was Track. BH was used to counter Riki at competitive level of play all the time.

Riki saw very little comp play, he did after several indirect and direct buffs where he was shoved into the meta. However, this was short lived, and BH was rarely if EVER used to counter him. Now I didn't want replays very often, but I did a lot of scrims around those times and generally he was just banned. People who did play against him tended to use Slardar, and use a dual melee carry(slar/naix). Either way, the best counter to him was to not counter him, because the heroes used were generally not strong in the meta(BH, slar).

It was best to ban, or dust gank him.


Also Track gives bonus MS to the whole team against the tracked target, which added utility to the hero.

This was just a pathetic attempt to make him more team orientated.


The main problem with vanish is that it promotes a style of play where you constantly run around invisible, try to attack and then run around invisible for a while.

This leads to not farming, or even laning, and gets noobs into terrible situations. I've seen 15-3 scouts get wrecked by 3-3 carries, simply because they spend NO time farming and all of their time trolling the lanes for kills.

[Nome]

I think the only real problems with Scout right now are largely unintended--walking through Fissures and the such.

Either way, Glorify already covered everything. Scout suffers from NA syndrome--he's a great ganker, OK laner (NA is great), but once the teamfight phase starts he's next to useless. The biggest contribution you get from Scout is gank initiation and intel.

[Glorify1]

NA is a great teamfight hero though, he completely assassinates people and has a stun. I mean, only thing he lacks is a bit more aoe but he's just such a good hero.

[Mellow]

This leads to not farming, or even laning, and gets noobs into terrible situations. I've seen 15-3 scouts get wrecked by 3-3 carries, simply because they spend NO time farming and all of their time trolling the lanes for kills.Yes, that too. It's also funny to see a scout trying to gank before he has his ult, and then it takes ages for him to catch up to people since he obviously couldn't kill without his ult and missed a lot of experience.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Scout suffers from NA syndrome--he's a great ganker, OK laner (NA is great), but once the teamfight phase starts he's next to useless.

Axaxaxaaxa this made my day :D

NA is hands-down the most OP and imbalanced Dota hero, who has not been nerfed EVER in the game and has been banned every game :) Not that I do not love playing Nerub

[Tokijin`]

Scout is amazing for upping my stats though!

[Nome]

AFAIK the main reason NA is banned in competitive play is more because he's annoying than he is strong.

Reference here:
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showpost.php?p=114127&postcount=47

[Slamdancer]

He is a SCOUT, if you use him as one, he shines. If you use him as a killwhore, he wont be so strong.

Of course pub games always feature heroes like: PA, SA, BS, BH, whatever agi...

That is just how pub games are, everyone wants to play a lategame hero, preferably in EM, stack up 3 Tier4 items and rape. That is their fun. But it doesn't make the hero good, just easier not to die.

[Glorify1]

NA is not as imbalanced as heroes like Storm, Undying.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

NA is not as imbalanced as heroes like Storm, Undying.

Undying maybe, Storm takes one good Heavy disabler / Doom

[ubidat]

The Electric Eyes are the single best skill in HoN.

^5

Noone seems to use them effectively though, they take 1 level and then just use it as Rune locators...

I do think scout's ulti should be -removed- and given to a new hero [maybe if sniper ever gets ported, or something]
if not, then remove the being able to ulti from invis, the slow is fine imo.

I agree with the idea to lower the duration/movement speed of his invis.

-ubi

[Nome]

Undying maybe, Storm takes one good Heavy disabler / Doom

Doom is rarely ever picked though = /
Storm also tends to do so well during the ganking phase that that by the time pushing/teamfighting begins he's already got a decent-charged Bloodstone. It's mainly how his ultimate interacts with his passive, but yeah, I'm going way off topic.

I initially thought Scout was worthless in competitive matches, but I'm changing my tune. I'd say he's top-mid to low-top tier due to his incredible ability for intel.

The fact that Marksman Shot doesn't require him to enter Sentry range helps his ganking power too, unlike NA, who you could avoid by spending 200 gold and playing safe.

Once he hits level 6, he's possibly the best roamer in the game right now, but as people have already reiterated many times in this thread, once teamfights begin his utility decreases several-fold.

[Mkc]

scout is worthless in competitive matches :/ when warding is probably one of the main differences between an average team and a good team, and for him tailing off . . . does everyone foget that there are four other players on a team and scout dominating your whole team early game has given them plenty opportunity to farm it up and kick your ass

[FuzzyWuzzy]

scout is worthless in competitive matches :/ when warding is probably one of the main differences between an average team and a good team, and for him tailing off . . . does everyone foget that there are four other players on a team and scout dominating your whole team early game has given them plenty opportunity to farm it up and kick your ass

No one uses sentry wards apart from early laning phases and pushes, dusts are a lot better versus fast moving invisible heroes like Scout

[j00sh]

scout is worthless in competitive matches :/ when warding is probably one of the main differences between an average team and a good team, and for him tailing off . . . does everyone foget that there are four other players on a team and scout dominating your whole team early game has given them plenty opportunity to farm it up and kick your ass

well, when I play scout my team knows where the other team is at all times, and if any non-tank straggles from a team fight, backs early, positions poorly etc he is fully punished for it

just harassing a team and causing them to botch their positioning by trying to chase me and blow cooldowns etc can be great initiation and I've set up many hat tricks just by grabbing a team's attention and exploiting their lust for a scout kill... just knowing a scout is around causes anxiety I'm pretty sure

sometimes people laugh at me for not going codex though

but like I've said before, he's not a super hero, and there are plenty of matchups where you would not want a scout.. that's dota though, the same can be said about a lot of heroes

[Glorify1]

Doom has seen more games lately, storm really had only 3 hard counters:
Doom
Bloodseeker
Kotl

Kotl got nerfed, and is like paper against him, and the other two are pretty weak heroes. Besides, considering -cm has 4 bans each, it's not that hard to lastpick ban the heroes you don't want to see if you're going to storm carry. Either way, those two heroes are FAR more imbalanced.

Also, Storm can dodge most disables with his ult.

[Sunforger]

Scout is perfectly fine: strong and fun hero with a good theme. Please leave him as is, whine about Madman instead.

[Inconmon]

First. You call him a useless hero, then ask for his invisibility to be NERFED. Does this make sense?

Yes.
Vanish is out of line, no matter how bad scout is.

If you have a hero with 3 skills that are 100% useless or simply dont work and his last skill is a 0 cd 0 mana 9999 range blink... the hero is going to be useless, but his blink is out of line with anything else in the game.


Vanish is fine, gives him map control and ability to get away from things. He needs these, as he's a useless agi hero.

He needs to get a buff / change to make him stronger -- and then obviously vanish can be nerfed without making him complete trash.


Oddly enough his wards are his strongest and most useful skill.

Imo that quote alone is enough to proof how bad scout is.
Sadly the wards have a far too high cd to be that strong.


*Ultimate needs a buff or a complete remake. It's burst damage is too low, and it can be easily avoided.

Care to explain? Personally I think his ulti-from-stealth-pointblank is his best ability by far and its the only skill that can make him useless for the team by slowing heroes down to finish them off.

[krucifix]

-this guy has a lower chance of being picked in high level play than sniper.

-wait. sniper who?

Sniper what?
http://wowriot.gameriot.com/blogs/The-Ohcee/DOTA-Say-Hello-to-My-Little-Friend-Snipers-Soon-to-be-Rise-to-Dominance

Lol... :)

[pearly2]

At first you say the hero is useless, then you want to nerf him.

His ganking abilities are too good.

[Pzzz10uS]

In what world is Electric Eye useless? It's ridiculous. 4 free True Sight wards on a 30 second cd for cheap mana. The only drawback is that they can be spotted if heroes get right next to them, which is easily avoided by placing them on cliffs or other inaccessible spot.

A good scout will get his team excellent map control, and he can easily rune whore with bottle/electric eyes to keep up vanish/ult spam.

I'd say increase the mana cost/cooldown on Vanish and make the spot radius for Electric Eyes larger.

[lonevandal]

1. Scout

1) Scout is useless for the team.
2) Scout is mainly a killstealer.
3) Scout is statwhoring deluxe.


None of this has anything to do with the class, these are all entirely subjective observations that you could say about any pug player playing any class who only cares about his ratio, not winning. You posted in a thread about that subject but I guess you can't see the forest for the trees.



2. Scout vs Bounty Hunter

Bounty Hunter is superior to scout in every way and was not a that popular hero in competitive gaming. His main role was running around ganking people to get rich and famous, as his ulti gave additional gold.
Scout is worse at chasing, worse at harass and gains no advantage vor last hits / killsteals. He shouldnt lasthit as he is no real carry anyway.


Why are you even bothering comparing a *NEW HERO* hero in this game to a hero in DotA? Scout is designated as a *NEW HERO* not a revamped old one for a reason. Go back to DotA if that is what you want to play.



3. Changes required:
Scout needs more use for the Team, more utility maybe. At the same times his skills need to be balanced.

1) Vanish needs far less duration and(/or) increased mana cost. Vanish is simply out of line.
2) His wards suck. Period. Too long cooldown is the main problem. This could also become a "multi skill" with 3 buttons like Soulstealer nuke, so you can give him other small utility stuff.
3) Passiv feels like a waste, as you could have put in a cool active ability AND wingbow doesnt stack with his evasion and wingbow is one of the best agi lategame items.


1) Vanish is fine, the enemy can deal with it the same way they deal with Nighthound.
2) His wards are awesome and quite a boon to any team if used well. Place them on Tablet spawns or at the enemy secret shop, anywhere the enemy team is suspected to be hanging out. They are better than the tree eye because all it takes is a tango to destroy 3x tree eyes, where as these are actually hard to find if placed well.
3) Not every hero needs the same items, get over it. There are all kinds of good items for Scout such as life steal / raw damage / bash chance.



Personally I would like to see his Ultimate replace the passive with scaled down damage, less range but shorter cooldown. Vanish +10 mana on levelups and less duration than cooldown. Electric Eye more hp and 30s cooldown, maybe even an aura effect like -1 armor or +10% damage or so.
New Ultimate could be alchemistic bundle from savage, similar to techies remote mine.

This is where it gets great. Encourage Scouts to spend even more time Stealthed and not actually hitting people by letting them spam their Ult from it more often, make Vanish cost more mana at the same time, forcing Scout to invest heavily in mana regen items, and make EE completely useless because the enemy can see when they get debuffed and will always know where you've placed them so they can go destroy them easily or avoid them entirely. You should probably never make a Hero rebalance suggestion thread again until you actually know what you're talking about.



But right now scout would be the first hero I'd ban in all games I play. Just so my OWN TEAM cannot pick him.

Just because Scout is appealing to bad players in bad public games doesn't mean there is a problem inherent in the class. If Scout wasn't here bad players would all flock to something else they perceived to be "easy" or "the best". Chances are you'd still lose no matter what other class they picked.

[ScottMAstar]

At the moment the only real problem I see that would make scout too weak is the fact that hes a ganker//map control hero who is melee. For those of you who haven't realized this by now, when the other team wards the map with obs//sentries, scout wont be able to kill any of the ones placed up high which is a really bad thing for him and his map control.

I think that its too early to say whether scout is weak from his other abilities or not. He is excellent on a team regardless of what you all say, simply because of his wards. Team doesn't have to spend gold on those wards now and since scout won't spend gold on wards either, he can use it to farm a null fire blade, hellflower, kunnkas totem, or a shieldbreaker which all play important uses in a team fight. Scout is far from useless lategame if you played properly.

[skipjack]

op is right

[Prixm1]

op is right

'Nough said. Change the ulti, dosnt belong to scout even if his name is scout.

[Inconmon]

This is where it gets great.

tl;dr version => l2read

[Glorify1]

Once he hits level 6, he's possibly the best roamer in the game right now, but as people have already reiterated many times in this thread, once teamfights begin his utility decreases several-fold.

No. His ult has a 3 second cast time and his burst is no where NEAR other heroes at this level.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

So, nobody wants Track instead of Electric Eye? Serves the same purpose for Invis heroes and removes the imba part of the Eyes - ward vision. Also, it has way more synergy with the rest of his skills.

[Slurgi]

You think people would get a clue when every single ap game has a scout, a swiftblade, and a blood hunter....

You'd think people would get a clue when in a real competitive game that certainly only one of those heroes would get picked on a single team (and it WON'T be scout).

[Pooton]

I'd like to see scout ulti become an ensnare trap or somthing or even second skills be that.

[Bahamut]

The Electric Eyes are the single best skill in HoN.

indeed QFT

[rhodric1]

Scout's fine. He's better in teams than gondar ever was. Scout offers wards, and an awesome slow + nuke for initiating early-mid game ganks and chasing down targets. Gondar offered...?

[Pyronius]

I don't play scout myself but killing off the other team or "stat" farming is still helping your team by giving them free farm time and giving the other team less gold/xp.

Honestly I hate the hero as much as anyone else, but mainly because of perma invis backstabs at level 3 and codex builds.

[Lethe]

Yea, I forgot how useless electric eyes are.

Stop posting.

[pearly2]

You'd think people would get a clue when in a real competitive game that certainly only one of those heroes would get picked on a single team (and it WON'T be scout).

Actually they are all viable as seen in competitive dota.

[Lethe]

Actually they are all viable as seen in competitive dota.

Nah chronos is bloody terrible.

[xahxah]

No. His ult has a 3 second cast time and his burst is no where NEAR other heroes at this level.


It kind of doesn't matter though; Scout is the best ganker in the game because he doesn't need to waste gold on tp scrolls, has invis, pretty good burst damage, and can control runes like no tommorrow. The guy gets free wards at the beginning of the game, etc.



In no way is he useless. He's not as good as NA when it comes to killing people, but having early game wards makes a significant impact for your whole team alone. The fact that a team with Scout can have like 8+ wards is really scary.

[xahxah]

Nah chronos is bloody terrible.


Only because they nerfed Void's str. Before that he was getting used left and right.

[zp3dd4]

I think they should just make the MS increase while invis 20%, and make the backstab damage scale according to level. The eyes are fine, since scout does need them to make him useful at all.

[Nome]

Only because they nerfed Void's str. Before that he was getting used left and right.

Well, it's also because his bash has a cooldown in HoN, and is shared with Basher's.

[Maliko]

I agree with the first one to post. He should be replaced with The true spirit of Gondar ;)

[Inconmon]

It kind of doesn't matter though; Scout is the best ganker in the game because he doesn't need to waste gold on tp scrolls, has invis, pretty good burst damage, and can control runes like no tommorrow. The guy gets free wards at the beginning of the game, etc.



In no way is he useless. He's not as good as NA when it comes to killing people, but having early game wards makes a significant impact for your whole team alone. The fact that a team with Scout can have like 8+ wards is really scary.

8? Did they buff that skill? It was 1 ward / level last time I played with a gay long cooldown and patch log doesnt say something changed.

---

Edit:

Cooldown: 150/120/90/60
Max active wards: 1/2/3/4


In what world is Electric Eye useless? It's ridiculous. 4 free True Sight wards on a 30 second cd for cheap mana.

Yes, 30 seconds. Oh wait--

[Drst_]

1. Scout

1) Scout is useless for the team.
2) Scout is mainly a killstealer.
3) Scout is statwhoring deluxe.


EoT, 100% of truth

[Techies]

Still think he's main problem is the scaling and upkeep of his vanish skill.

level1: 50 mana cost. Lasts 15 secs. Ms gain 10%
level2: 65 mana cost. Lasts 20 secs. Ms gain 10%
level3: 80 mana cost. Lasts 25 secs. Ms gain 15%
level4: 95 mana cost. Lasts 30 secs. Ms gain 20%

Instead of removing stuff, just make him scale better so he doesn't get a cheap +25% speed buff and perma invisibility from lvl1. He will still be imba, but only after he lvl'ed a bit. Due to increased mana cost he won't be able to stay invisible the whole bloody game and will have to use it wisely.

What you think?

[MavsWorld]

Vanish is totally imablanced skill as he can be invis the whole game. It completely undervalues the rikimaru equivalent's perma invis, especially as he doesn't get it till later and gets no speed boost.

[Helgeran1]

Something that would make him more fun is if his wards had timed life and shorter cooldown and no cap. That way wards and his ult could have some synergy, placing a ward on the escape route before a gank. Also his incredible speed would synergize since he'd spend very little time away to replace them.

[Hibi1]

If anything scout is actually underpowered. Keep whining about pub stomping heros please though...

[Stoli]

-this guy has a lower chance of being picked in high level play than sniper.

-wait. sniper who?
thats bullshit

he has carry potential (ww giving ms = possible carry) and ELECTRIC EYES

edit: not that he's necessarily a good hero, just, sniper? Really?

[Glorify1]

The Electric Eyes are the single best skill in HoN.Stupidest thing I've ever heard. Any skill that replicates an item is never going to be the best skill in the game. Even with no cooldown it would be an inferior skill to things like Dark Lady's ult, Kraken's ult, Hellbringers -magic armor instant heal.

The view range is inferior to ob wards, which are inexpensive and reveal more than a normal ward will. Picking a bad hero so that you can inefficiently see enemy wards when counter warding is far more productive. I'd rather have a hardly farmed good hero than a decently farmed **** hero.


ww giving ms = possible carryYou're clearly clueless; weaver had max movespeed with his shukuchi and was never picked as a carry.

Clinkz has a max movespeed windwalk, never picked as a carry. Pub games do not equal high level play.


Something that would make him more fun is if his wards had timed life and shorter cooldown and no cap. That way wards and his ult could have some synergy, placing a ward on the escape route before a gank. Also his incredible speed would synergize since he'd spend very little time away to replace them.So it takes even MORE time to gank someone? This is stupid, his ult is a load of ****, and his skills don't even synergize well together.



Only because they nerfed Void's str. Before that he was getting used left and right. Void was rarely used, TB and BB were stronger carries of that era.


Scout's fine. He's better in teams than gondar ever was.
BH gave 20% movespeed to your entire team.

[FinalHope]

Scout is better then bobo or syllabear, whatever his name is. He can be a team player but people just dont play him that way. Hes hard to gank when farming and makes your team spend gold to catch him unless you have pestilence or something. Who said electric eye needsa buff? They are free wards. They also have truesight. Seriously. Hes not the best carry in the game or support but hes not an awful hero. His ult isnt just for ksing. It has a 40% slow for four seconds and severly hurts a hero before team battle. It has a great casting range. Most people dont know this but lina and lion/pyromancers are supposed to open team batlles with ults not save them for ksing. Lina/pyromancer have to get close to cast theirs but scout can shoot from afar. Scout is useful for scouting forests while in invisible mode for ganks. So hes sort of like nerubian assassin. If you get a dagon he can be played sort of like a NA just the same impact. Doesnt need buffing. Time better spent elsewhere.

[rhodric1]

Listen kids, if Gondar wasn't OP in dota, Scout is definitely not OP in HoN.
Quit getting pub stomped and coming here to whine. Buy wards and own him early game.

[dYe]

You're clearly clueless; weaver had max movespeed with his shukuchi and was never picked as a carry.

MYM chose weaver multiple times in mym pride tournaments....don't know where you are getting this info