Scout

[Scowndrul]

No movement speed increase while he is in stealth.
Don't let his ult slow.

[Conscripted]

Get early wards and build a Shaman's headdress and he's not even a problem.

[Vadi]

Agreeing with Conscripted (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=24668). He was fearsome at the beginning, when it was a vet padding stats on newb matches, but with some relevation (wards / dust / bound eye) and magic armour (or just levelling, his ulti doesn't scale and is laughable late-game) you're ok.

You can also move into one of the small tree paths when targetted and ulti won't go through.

[tayuku]

He really isn't as bad as you think he is. Even when farmed, true carries still destroy Scout. Pick a STR hero, get a behemoth heart and a gem and you're fine.

Scout's best skill is actually his eye which last forever and can be placed at some areas that cannot be walked upon (Rocks by rune). He is essentially a scout and a good one at that.

[Gedok]

I don't mind that he increases speed under stealth. What I do mind is his ultimate slowing people down. It has long range, it can be used while he is invisible, deals an insane amount of damage, and can slow down.

The fact that he can do it invisible should remove the benefit of slowing it down. Otherwise I think he is fine, including the constant backstab.

You need to remember Scout doesn't have anything in terms of speed unlike other stealth characters. Night hound can use pounce, madman has barrel roll, stalk, and ultimate.

TL:DR Remove the slow on his ultimate.

[Ryno2112]

keep the slow on it please, I'd say lower the damage. as it is people are using his ult incorrectly and it's annoying. it shouldn't be a KS machine it should be a great slow.

[sockety]

When I see a scout, I either go Legionnaire, Pestilence, Accursed, or Jeriziah. Problem solved.

[dxbydt]

What was wrong with gondar in dota? Why can't he just be left alone?

[`Shifty]

What was wrong with gondar in dota? Why can't he just be left alone?

Because this is not DotA. They couldn't just leave all the heroes the same, they needed to tweak things. Personally, I like this hero a lot more than gondar.

Anyway, back on the topic of balance, I don't think he's toooo imba. Maybe a little, but not a lot. Wards/Dust counter him greatly, the problem is that he gets so much movement speed while invis imo. Even if you put down a ward he can run out of it's range incredibly quickly.

IMO: Give his invisible speed a slight nerf, maybe half or so of what it is now, give his invis a 0.5 second cast time and he'll be fine.

[BleBla]

He may be not a threat at all, but it's almost impossible to kill him even with gem because he has a lot of move speed, the tip is reducing the movement speed from vanish

[Urizen]

invis should be 10% ms at all levels

[dxbydt]

Because this is not DotA. They couldn't just leave all the heroes the same, they needed to tweak things. Personally, I like this hero a lot more than gondar.

Anyway, back on the topic of balance, I don't think he's toooo imba. Maybe a little, but not a lot. Wards/Dust counter him greatly, the problem is that he gets so much movement speed while invis imo. Even if you put down a ward he can run out of it's range incredibly quickly.

IMO: Give his invisible speed a slight nerf, maybe half or so of what it is now, give his invis a 0.5 second cast time and he'll be fine.

This IS dota, dota's an idea, a concept. It's dota 2.0. And if you think they gotta change heroes JUST because this isn't called dota anymore then you're retarded. Dota heroes have been balanced over the course of years and they're tried and true, used in league play. If you don't like gondar then make a new hero. Don't break a working hero though.

[Tulkas]

I think the thing about the scout is just that he can be used in so many ways.
You can use him as a finisher for escaping heroes, for harassing low hp heroes with vanish, for slowing when preparing for gank; you can use him early game as ganker, or you can use him late game as chaser, or you can stuff him in the middle as sneak-ass dps (riki style). And there are more uses, I'm sure.

He can do loads of things, but he can't do any of those hugely well. He can't chase that well because he doesn't have an effective slow without a year's worth of wait, he can't harass too well because of vanish cooldown, he can't finish heroes off too well because late game he lacks the damage, he can't sneak dps too good because he's pretty noticeable... Etcetra etcetra.

It's not that he's imba, he just appeares to be everywhere and doing everything, thus giving the appearance that he is all powerful.
Well, that's my thought on it, anyway.

[Lethe]

He is essentially a scout and a good one at that.

This is the most accurate sentence in the whole thread. Scout can see ahead with eyes and the movespeed helps him get around quickly. You don't have to carry with scout just because he has a 3.0 agi gain/level.

As far as "scouting" goes, Scout does fine, and imo he is a very balanced hero.

[`Shifty]

This IS dota, dota's an idea, a concept. It's dota 2.0. And if you think they gotta change heroes JUST because this isn't called dota anymore then you're retarded. Dota heroes have been balanced over the course of years and they're tried and true, used in league play.

Actually, I'm pretty sure DotA is a game. You can't play ideas or concepts can you? This game is based on DotA (DBG), it is not DotA. And no, they don't have to change the heroes, but if you haven't noticed, they have.


If you don't like gondar then make a new hero. Don't break a working hero though.

They did make a new hero. His name is scout. 2 of his spells are the same as Gondars, but his role is different.

[Darkstrand]

Scout is fine.. His +MS is offset by the fact his only nuke has a ****ing 3 second cast time.

[Shenanigans1]

i have played dota for a while and this for a bit as well.

scout is fine imo. madman is a much bigger threat and is much more hard to kill. also, this game isnt dota. if you are really that sad this is not dota, please, go play dota. they made a new game, and it is a new game.

ps, just because a game has "league play" doesnt mean anything about it is balanced. at all. that is a logical fallacy.

[Glorify1]

This hero needs a buff, not a nerf.

[Bastila]

To be honest whenever I see Scout go 10-0-4, 15-1-3 etc, its easy to think OP. But vs vet's the scout is more of a nuisance than an actual threat. I've not really had much of an issue with scout, especially late game. Pretty much all I ever see scout do late game is kill steal with his ult+codex and then run away... pretty useless in a team game, and the hero itself is meh in a big team battle as well. The only possible nerf I could see is making vanish go on a cooldown after you unstealth... say a 2-3 second CD (assuming it was done with the internal CD). Other than that though, there really isn't much OP about the scout other than the fact it stealths all the time.