The Madman is overpowered

[Fuse]

Seriously guys, what were you smoking when you designed that guy? It's like you took Naix - who is already super effing powerful in DotA - and thought "hey, this guy isn't overpowered enough, let's give him super speed and invisibility so nothing can escape him ever".

Sorry, just one too many good games ending on a sour note because every character except him is roughly equivalent and able to handle each other, while he's out there going around tanking teams of two by himself, racking up kills, and getting about 5 or 10 levels ahead. I have no qualms with any other hero to the extent I do this guy - Jez, Scout, Legionnaire, Zeus, Moon Queen, even the Witch that was nerfed in DotA but not in HoN - I can deal with them. But let me put it this way: I've yet to see even the biggest noobs have a bad game with the Madman.

I submit that I'm a not too good at both DotA and HoN and welcome input from more enlightened players.

[Rippsy]

Seriously; use the search function.
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/search.php?searchid=43484

[Fuse]

Seriously; use the search function.
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/search.php?searchid=43484
In a fit of rage I lost control of my rational faculties. I don't think searching is needed since the thread about exactly this topic exists just a few down from mine. Well, reading that it's good to know people agree with me.

[Rippsy]

[CLOSE THREAD]

:P etc

[Fuse]

[CLOSE THREAD]

:P etc
I cannot do that myself and I doubt the moderators need you to explain how to do their jobs. :)

[Loxy]

pestilence > madman

[Kry1]

pestilence > madman

This is untrue.

[MuraMasa1]

lol same items I bet you madman rock pestilence ass.

[Deillon]

lol same items I bet you madman rock pestilence ass.
-armor and a spammable stun does not beat madman?

[MuraMasa1]

-armor and a spammable stun does not beat madman?


Spammable? by time he can cast that stun again I'm willing to bet he's dead.

[Able_Baker]

lol you should have seen the madman pre 1.26 patch he was pritty much the weakest hero of the lot, still going thro trial and error, me thinks

[Dark0ne]

For the love of god stop comparing N'aix to Madman. They only look the same; none of their skills are the same. Madman is a new hero which could probably most be likened to a cross between Weaver and Troll Warlord.

What makes Madman weak is his low HP, no lifesteal and lack of spell immunity compared to N'aix. Those are some very exploitable weaknesses. Unfortunately most people are too busy trying to pick Scout to really exploit them.

[xahxah]

For the love of god stop comparing N'aix to Madman. They only look the same; none of their skills are the same. Madman is a new hero which could probably most be likened to a cross between Weaver and Troll Warlord.

What makes Madman weak is his low HP, no lifesteal and lack of spell immunity compared to N'aix. Those are some very exploitable weaknesses. Unfortunately most people are too busy trying to pick Scout to really exploit them.



A. He does not have low hp. He has higher HP than most casters and pretty much any agility hero. He has 2.1 str gain I believe? That's high as some str heroes.


B. Lifesteal is solved by a cheap item


C. Shrunken head




He essentially needs two items that are very farmable to be able to deal damage in a team fight. The hero is op. You simply cannot stop him from farming unless you have one person on your team dedicated to just running all over the map and ganking him.

[Darkshine1]

Spammable? by time he can cast that stun again I'm willing to bet he's dead.

I'm willing to bet that the following happens: Swarm, Impale, then ganked by my allies.

[Thotor]

I'll can say : stop feeding Madman.
The main reason why madman is OP , is because he gets feeded and outlevel/outgear anyone.
This apply to some other heroes as well, but madman got stealth to avoid trouble.

[Rengan]

Some heroes are very good if you stand there and fight them 1v1. Some people can't understand this. It's the same thing as with troll in dota, with whom madman shares many traits. don't play into his hand, use spells, nukes, and disables to fight him. Shrunken head gives him 10 seconds of magic immune that you can use running away and juking. His nukes and speed boosts give him good chasing power, splurge the money of some god damn boots or blinks. If you feed him to death, you fully deserve to get 1v5ed by him.

[MuraMasa1]

I'm willing to bet that the following happens: Swarm, Impale, then ganked by my allies.


First you need to be lucky enough to get the swarm off before he sees you and goes invis. Then even if you do get the swarm off you're not going to keep up with him, especially considering he can barrel roll off cliffs. A decent madman doesn't get ganked.

And I lol @ you back peddling. We where originally talking about madman vs pestilence 1 vs 1. Now you try to add in your lil buddies and the funny thing is I seriously doubt you would gank him anyway. Even if by some extremely lucky chance you do gank the nooblet madman I bet you he takes atleast 2 of you out with him.



I've watch madman dominate people even when he didn't have gear advantage. He doesn't need expensive gear when he has crazy atk speed and crazy crits for FREE.

[Deillon]

First you need to be lucky enough to get the swarm off before he sees you and goes invis. Then even if you do get the swarm off you're not going to keep up with him, especially considering he can barrel roll off cliffs. A decent madman doesn't get ganked.
Swarm has quite some range, and if you use Flight he probably wont expect you. Then chase him down (flight has a long duration) and then land that Impale.

Now barrel-rolling and cliffs, that's what makes him pretty imba, I agree.

[cripling]

Madman is freaking impossible to gank, unless he kills you both in a 1v2 he can just barrel-roll of a cliff and escape the most impossible situations. That's goddamn imba.

[Darkshine1]

First you need to be lucky enough to get the swarm off before he sees you and goes invis. Then even if you do get the swarm off you're not going to keep up with him, especially considering he can barrel roll off cliffs. A decent madman doesn't get ganked.

And I lol @ you back peddling. We where originally talking about madman vs pestilence 1 vs 1. Now you try to add in your lil buddies and the funny thing is I seriously doubt you would gank him anyway. Even if by some extremely lucky chance you do gank the nooblet madman I bet you he takes atleast 2 of you out with him.



I've watch madman dominate people even when he didn't have gear advantage. He doesn't need expensive gear when he has crazy atk speed and crazy crits for FREE.

We were talking 1v1? That's news to me. I assumed we were playing a team game where you're not dumb enough to be alone in the ganking stage.

[Invoker1]

Can't remember HoN names, but I rushed an orchid, grabbed boots of travel, then went for Mekansm and then went for bloodstone, and I was 12-2 by the end of the game.
Those are pretty ridiculous items, the guy really needs a nerf. The leap and invis should never be together on one hero - let alone a melee hero.

admitedly, orchid is a pretty sweet item on him. You can spam his skills constantly, and silence/dmg amp is insta-kill.

[Lethe]

My favorite part about madman is that most people that use him in pubs don't even optimize him. Wait until you deal with a solid carry player in some random game, and pray for mercy.

[chobbo]

Can't remember HoN names, but I rushed an orchid, grabbed boots of travel, then went for Mekansm and then went for bloodstone, and I was 12-2 by the end of the game.
Those are pretty ridiculous items, the guy really needs a nerf. The leap and invis should never be together on one hero - let alone a melee hero.

admitedly, orchid is a pretty sweet item on him. You can spam his skills constantly, and silence/dmg amp is insta-kill.

well that rules out Nighthound...

[Tidus1]

hes the best carry in the game. he has some of the best survivability in the game, with shukuchi and a blink (yes it is a blink, he can go over cliffs etc), so his odds of getting extremely farmed and not dieing are quite high, especially with a competent team. the survivability alone isn't the whole issue though, its also the fact that he has the best carry fighter skills in the game with Juggs crit (36% 2x, VERY good) and Troll's old ulti (120% IAS for 30 secs, 9% ms increase too). with these 2 skills, items have the biggest effect on increasing his damage then any other hero in the game (can you name someone else with a huge IAS boost and 2x 36% crit?).

i cant think of another fighter carry in the game i would prefer over madman. you cant really control his farming due to his survivability, and once he has items they have the greatest impact on him out of every hero in the game. i think he needs a nerf.

[Hibi1]

Seriously, he's not over powered, seriously. In high level play a team would not pick him I can guarantee you.

[tropicaza]

Gonna close this. Too many Madman overpowered threads...if you have a problem with the balance of this particular hero, please go to the Balance subforum and make a specific post about which abilities are overpowered.