Plated Greaves vs. Steamboots: Survival of the Modern Age

[MacroHard]

Updated as of v2.5.12

Preface

I constantly see Steamboots as a core pickup for many intelligence heroes, or strength/agi support heroes that rely on spells more than auto-attacks. The argument for Steamboots is that it gives "much needed survivability" on these otherwise squishy heroes. It seems, unfortunately, that most new players are conditioned to either use Striders or Steamboots when supporting.


The "Much Needed Survivability" Argument

Steamboots are generally recommended, and often preferred, because of the added +10 strength. It is a common misconception that this is an inexpensive way to boost the survival of support heroes, with an extra 10 movespeed to boot; not only will you have 190 more health you will also be slightly faster than the red boot alternative.


Those "Other" Boots

According to the item usage statistics, Plated Greaves are acquired 5.2% as often as Steamboots. That is not a typo; Steamboots are purchased nearly 20 times as often as Plated Greaves.


The Truth About Survival

HoN is filled with physical damage. Unlike another unnamed competing game, Heroes of Newerth contains many physical damage abilities. Steamboots may add 133 more health than Plated Greaves, but Plated Greaves adds 7.42 additional armor. If you run the numbers, that 7.42 armor provides more survival than 133 health for most mid to late game situations where physical damage becomes more prominent. In addition to better EHP, Plated Greaves (70 ms) are faster than Steamboots (60 ms), have an activateable that helps push enemy structures, and is less expensive to build.
Note: Striders, Ghost Marchers, or Post Haste may still be preferred if mobility is more important than survival.
Note: Players very skilled with stat manipulation for bottling may still want Steamboots.


EHP Comparison

EHP of Steamboots = (H+190)*(1+.06A)
EHP of Plated Greaves = (H+57)*(1+.06*(A+7.42))

For Plated Greaves to be more EHP than Steamboots,
(H+57)*(1+.06*(A+7.42)) > (H+190)*(1+.06A)
1.4452H+.06HA+82.3764+3.42A > H+.06HA+190+11.4A
7.98A < .4452H-107.6236
A < .05579H - 13.49

This line is plotted as follows:

http://i.imgur.com/3irXD.png

As you can see, there are virtually zero situations where Steamboots provide more EHP than Plated Greaves.


Factoring in Magic Damage

"EHP is great and all, but there is magic damage in this game too. Additional health protects against magic, therefore Steamboots are still the better choice."

Let...
D = total incoming damage
X = percentage of incoming damage D that is magic damage
A = physical armor
M = magic armor

Plated Greaves and Steamboots give equal survival when...
[(1-X)D/(1.4452+.06A)+XD/(1+.06M)]/(H+57) = [(1-X)D/(1+.06A)+XD/(1+.06M)]/(H+190)

The solution to the above, solving for H in terms of D, X, A, and M is...
H = (0.119497(-450A²X + 450AMX - 450AM - 10839AX - 7500A + 6069MX - 6069M - 79500X - 101150))/((3M+50)(X-1))

The graph of that solution for fixed values of M and X is...

http://i.imgur.com/OrTIJ.png

Even with heavy magic damage (50% of all incoming damage is magic), a hero with 1500 health and 15 armor will benefit more from Plated Greaves. This is a very common scenario as most support heroes tend to have low agility gain and generally neglect armor unless they have a Ring of the Teacher (only +3 armor), or intentions for Frostfield.


Other Considerations
Plated Greaves are 147 gold cheaper, enough to buy that one extra ward or almost enough for a courier upgrade
Plated Greaves gives +59 health and +39 mana simultaneously (not much, but there nonetheless)
Plated Greaves provides +10 movespeed over Steamboots
Plated Greaves has an activate ability that buffs allied heroes, and significally buffs creeps and minions

Conclusion

Unless you need the attack speed, or are skilled at stat manipulation for bottling, heroes looking for survival should consider Plated Greaves over Steamboots.


Everyone needs to stop arguing. Steamboots are amazing boots. They are great against medium to heavy magic teams. They have awesome synergy with bottling. The stat toggle can make the difference between life and death. The attack speed cannot be excluded.

blah blah

The point of this is as follows:
New players are often told to get steamboots for survival and just leave them on strength
There are a substantial number of cases where plated greaves adds more survival
HoN has many physical damage spells/heroes (:monk: :drun: :pand: :dead: :pred: :noma: :swif: :nigh: :pest: etc)
Plated Greaves is statistically used 5% as often as Steamboots
They are significantly under-represented considering that Steamboots are typically used as survival for non-attacking spellcasters

No more arguing. Good players can clearly make their own choices. I just want to dispel this myth that Steamboots should be core for squishy spellcasters.

[ReD`RubY]

n1 Macro)

[LordTroll]

I thought it was obvious enough, but in all truth, both boots have their charm. Stat cycling is awesome to have for many heroes, but Plated Greaves are great for tankiness and pushing, so it really depends on the hero and role. But yeah, plated greaves is incredibly good for supports.

[SmurfinBird]

I'm guessing this was annoying you when people were buying steamboots on tanky-style heroes? :)

Thank you for the explanations, I look forward to the segment on magic armour. EDIT: Oh you added it without me realising. Thank you!

In the part : EHP is great and all, but there is magic damage in this game too.

EHP includes magic damage, no? Effective health points or something along those lines?

I understand what you are getting at but EHP can include either terms I thought.

[MacroHard]

I'm guessing this was annoying you when people were buying steamboots on tanky-style heroes? :)

Thank you for the explanations, I look forward to the segment on magic armour. EDIT: Oh you added it without me realising. Thank you!

In the part : EHP is great and all, but there is magic damage in this game too.

EHP includes magic damage, no? Effective health points or something along those lines?

I understand what you are getting at but EHP can include either terms I thought.

Magic Armor up. I did something new with this one, where rather than assume a fixed magic damage amount I took it as a percentage of total damage. I may include this in my full EHP guide in the near future.

And yes, I have seen one too many :defi::soulr: with Steamboots.

[man_guy]

I feel as though the extra 133 HP is going to help me survive more in most situations. Getting caught by a carry in late game, I'm dead in the water. He's going to have significant attack damage to take me down quickly. I would rather be able to tank more damage from magic than try to get out of a situation I know I can't otherwise. /non-mechanics post

[Vida]

btw they get steam boots for the raw hp they give, right now in the 1800 bracket in Garena HoN. The team is formed mostly by 4 caster and 1 physical carry. (Or a zepher and a dw).

I still think the decision is still up to the picks.

[Demonwing]

Nice graphs indeed. I certainly thought that you needed much less armor before plated grieves was effective. Ty Macro.

[Nytemair]

Sweet, I'll probably start buying these a lot more when I'm not bottle-togging steam.

[ElementUser]

Cons:

Pro Steamboots microers will get bored

:(

:3

[MacroHard]

Cons:

Pro Steamboots microers will get bored

:(

:3

There are exceptions, of course. I never said Plated Greaves are always better. I just want people to realize that Plated Greaves should be considered when you don't really need the attack speed. They are simply too good to justify the 20-to-1 usage rate.

[foul_beast]

indeed i use plated grieves occasionally on supports, but i do tend to find the extra attack speed more useful most the time(and sometimes even the extra int when you switch for when you urgently need a tiny bit more mana for a spell or an extra bit of damage on your auto attack)

no doubt though i reckon it prob should be used a bit more often

[BigBoss00]

I like it better when people I play against don't weigh the options and end up following guides. If you could quit brining light to overlooked factors that'd be great.

[SmurfinBird]

I like it better when people I play against don't weigh the options and end up following guides. If you could quit brining light to overlooked factors that'd be great.

Yeah, I agree. I'm going revise my opinion to this, stop being so damn useful Macro!
:andr:

[DeeHawk]

I like it better when people I play against don't weigh the options and end up following guides. If you could quit brining light to overlooked factors that'd be great.

trollface.jpg

Over 44% of the other players in a match, is on your team... (5vs5)
Keep posting Macro, some ppl like an increasing challenge as well as less baddies.

Nice graphs, babe!

[BigBoss00]

I don't solo queue.

[Rope`]

Devils advocate;

This is PROPAGANDA. The +as and stat cycling gets a tiny mention whilst the benefits of +armour gets the full equation+graph treatment.

Absolutely agree greaves should be bought more but it's a fine line as gankers/initiators like tiny/magmus should usually be blowing their 100% magic damage damage on the the CC-heavy enemy (often support) who can be efficient just be spamming their fire-and-forget spells.

I also feel that +armour doesn't benefit a support much in the late game, when you take into account the enemy carry autoattacking for 200-300 and the support having ~1.2k hp -> treads better in the long term. (could be totally wrong on this though; you can easily sway me with more swanky graphs).

[DarkAgonizer]

conclusion use :PlatedGreaves: for :balp: :warb: :keep: :cthu: :phar: :mora: :arma: :elec: :zeph: :accu: :jera::defi: :ophe::soulr:
its better especially when combined with Helm

[MarkMasters]

I like to play Tanky Tort.....But when i mid i get steamboots for the bottle abuse and sometimes it safes my life to swap from str to int (being low on mana for your tp).

Maybe il just start with a pair of SB, sell them and buy plated midgame, it isnt that expensive.

[Persi]

Does the fact that the enemy may be using Shieldbreaker have a positive effect on the comparison between Greaves and Steamboots or does it make no difference?

[MacroHard]

Does the fact that the enemy may be using Shieldbreaker have a positive effect on the comparison between Greaves and Steamboots or does it make no difference?

Yes. Higher armor is an excellent counter against Shieldbreaker.

When using the graphs, if they enemy has armor reduction (sols, shieldbreaker, or spell), then deduct that amount from the armor number before searching for the intersect.

[Mercy]

Steamboots make you attack faster and let you cycle for mana from putting them on +10 int.

Most of the time this is significantly better for a support than plated boots.

[Matsuchi]

Hm... actually considerd that i bought the steamboots for something else than str? perhaps i wanted it for the 40 attackspeed or for the extra mana+movespeed in one combo.

[SmurfinBird]

Hm... actually considerd that i bought the steamboots for something else than str? perhaps i wanted it for the 40 attackspeed or for the extra mana+movespeed in one combo.

Yes and he mentioned this. Plated has 10ms more movespeed than steamboots.

It's compared all the way through it and at the end heh.

[MacroHard]

Hm... actually considerd that i bought the steamboots for something else than str? perhaps i wanted it for the 40 attackspeed or for the extra mana+movespeed in one combo.

The problem I see is that many less skilled players are taught to buy steamboots for enhanced survival. If you are buying steamboots solely for survival, I wanted to make it known that there is another option available that is typically overlooked.

Obviously, skilled players may still prefer steamboots for other reasons.

[pechkin]

supports buy striders because its cheap and helps with mobility, carries buy phase or steamboots because it helps with dps. So plate are still good only for tank/pushers.

[Dowers]

Supports pick up steam boots for the extra HP whenever their opponents have a lot of nuking power, not because they need to tank more in general. That being said, nuking power is almost always magic damage which would make greaves worthless.

It's also irrelevant seeing as people would just buy striders anyway if they can get away with it as it's much more efficient and the extra gold saved could be spent on a teacher's ring or a bracer for astrolabe.

If you're looking to pick it up on heroes like tortuer, it's also more likely to be a debate between steam boots or ghost marchers since the greaves don't give you any offensive bonuses compared to the other two boots.

[Diablo``]

I am one of the few players who buys plated greaves on some heroes. I often buy them on Tort, SR, Defiler, Legio, Electrician and Pharaoh and sometimes on other heroes aswell, it's kinda sad that most people underestimate them and think they are garbage and useless.

[BigBoss00]

@ Dowers, Torturer can easily play devout pusher/aoe beefcake when built in a less notail manner.

[Dowers]

@ Dowers, Torturer can easily play devout pusher/aoe beefcake when built in a less notail manner.

Sure he can, but the boots won't be the core item.
Trying not to wander too much into strategy since this is mechanics but basically the extra armor won't give as much utility. If you're in need of that extra EHP early and can't get more use out of extra attack speed from steam boots or mobility from ghost marchers, then you're thinking/doing something wrong in the first place in my opinion.

There's a reason to why people buy mystic vestments instead of a chain mail, and that same logic can be applied here.

[Dominare]

There's a reason to why people buy mystic vestments instead of a chain mail

Yes there is a reason: because mystic vestments is the ONLY choice to boost magic armor whereas there are a dozen different choices for regular armor.

When considering boots, as with most things in HoN, the situation and enemy hero lineup should dictate your choice, ESPECIALLY if you're playing someone who isn't likely to be raking in gold. If the other team has deadwood, pestilence, dsham, nomad, etc etc, you'd need to be a complete fool to believe that steamboots are still a better survivability item than plated. On the other hand, if they're rolling TB and midas or whatever, then the raw hp from treads might be better. It all depends.

[Gaminos]

hon is by far majority magic damage problem heros, the statement of majority physical dmg is absurd

treads give survivability via hit-points + damage + mana + attack speed

In reality a support pushing a carries lane with the active affect of greaves is causing more harm than good, unless your team specifically structures a push line-up


However Hon is extremely situational, so both boots can be the correct choice depending on the hero line-ups.

But generally the majority of the time steamboots are going to be better.

(example: If you were forced to be only allowed to get one of the boots for 100 games in a row there is no way you would ever pick plated greaves over steamboots).

[pechkin]

also ranged non support heroes get steamboots/phase boots for better lasthit, plate boots can't provide that.

[SmurfinBird]

also ranged non support heroes get steamboots/phase boots for better lasthit, plate boots can't provide that.

He has acknowledged this. Plated are the better option for survivability, if you take things such as bottle micro and damage, the plated are not usually the best choice.


hon is by far majority magic damage problem heros, the statement of majority physical dmg is absurd

treads give survivability via hit-points + damage + mana + attack speed

In reality a support pushing a carries lane with the active affect of greaves is causing more harm than good, unless your team specifically structures a push line-up


However Hon is extremely situational, so both boots can be the correct choice depending on the hero line-ups.

But generally the majority of the time steamboots are going to be better.

(example: If you were forced to be only allowed to get one of the boots for 100 games in a row there is no way you would ever pick plated greaves over steamboots).


"Even with heavy magic damage (50% of all incoming damage is magic), a hero with 1500 health and 10 armor will benefit more from Plated Greaves."

Another negative you listed is supports pushing the lane with the active. IT IS AN ACTIVE, you don't push unless you want to. The point macro is making is that this misconception about "steamboots are going to be better" "the majority of the time" is not true. It's better in some cases sure, but when it comes to survivability, more armour over strength and +10 movespeed is better unless you're against pure magic damage, or close to that.

"example: If you were forced to be only allowed to get one of the boots for 100 games in a row there is no way you would ever pick plated greaves over steamboots"

I would probably pick Ghosts over Steamboots, or maybe even striders. It's always dependant on hero roles and if I was forced to buy one choice only, it would ruin the potential of some heroes.

[Gaminos]

"Even with heavy magic damage (50% of all incoming damage is magic), a hero with 1500 health and 10 armor will benefit more from Plated Greaves."

Another negative you listed is supports pushing the lane with the active. IT IS AN ACTIVE, you don't push unless you want to. The point macro is making is that this misconception about "steamboots are going to be better" "the majority of the time" is not true. It's better in some cases sure, but when it comes to survivability, more armour over strength and +10 movespeed is better unless you're against pure magic damage, or close to that.

"example: If you were forced to be only allowed to get one of the boots for 100 games in a row there is no way you would ever pick plated greaves over steamboots"

I would probably pick Ghosts over Steamboots, or maybe even striders. It's always dependant on hero roles and if I was forced to buy one choice only, it would ruin the potential of some heroes.

Firstly please don't respond to my posts with ridiculous troll quotes. You cannot apply a 50/50 magic/phys damage income ratio as a standard figure for all games. Its seriously retarded to even try as every game differs so much.

Secondly you cannot define survivability as Physical mitigation only, also in this point you contradict your previous 50%/50% point.

Thirdly the example given is referring to the Two boots in question Steam & Greaves, it does not apply to all the boots as this is not what the Thread is about. And also, striders are a rubbish pickup on the vast majority of heros only picked up when the income is tight but given an option no hero would ever pick striders.

[MagiTech]

After reading this thread I've started building Plated Greaves instead of Striders and must admit, the difference is staggering.

[SmurfinBird]

Firstly please don't respond to my posts with ridiculous troll quotes. You cannot apply a 50/50 magic/phys damage income ratio as a standard figure for all games. Its seriously retarded to even try as every game differs so much.

Secondly you cannot define survivability as Physical mitigation only, also in this point you contradict your previous 50%/50% point.

Thirdly the example given is referring to the Two boots in question Steam & Greaves, it does not apply to all the boots as this is not what the Thread is about. And also, striders are a rubbish pickup on the vast majority of heros only picked up when the income is tight but given an option no hero would ever pick striders.

In response;

If you do not want to be quoted in context, don't write it.

1) What would you suggest rather than that ratio? Of course it's different for every game, that's why I implore you to use your head when it comes to this but bearing in mind if they have any level of physical damage then it's not much to expect a 50/50. Think about creeps and towers ontop of auto attacks. I figure a 50/50 split is reasonable.

2) Plated are better for survivability with the magic damage considered.

3) Striders are great for certain gankers for the early game map dominance, and to obtain core items faster than if you were to go ghosts etc. (such as a portal key on pebbles).

No need to get snappy :)

[Gaminos]

In response;

If you do not want to be quoted in context, don't write it.

1) What would you suggest rather than that ratio? Of course it's different for every game, that's why I implore you to use your head when it comes to this but bearing in mind if they have any level of physical damage then it's not much to expect a 50/50. Think about creeps and towers ontop of auto attacks. I figure a 50/50 split is reasonable.

2) Plated are better for survivability with the magic damage considered.

3) Striders are great for certain gankers for the early game map dominance, and to obtain core items faster than if you were to go ghosts etc. (such as a portal key on pebbles).

No need to get snappy :)

I would suggest not trying to use a ratio as its impossible to even get it remotely close as every game lineup is drastically different , that's why I implore you to use your head when it comes to this, 2 games with exactly the same hero line-up's will have vastly different amounts of phsy/mag damage dealt due to the simple fact that the games will be played out differently. You need to understand just because there are only 2 types of damage does not mean you just split it in two.

Plated would be better vs a majority phys damage team while steamboots would be better vs a majority magic dmg team. You have to understand there is no right or wrong. But with the current meta-game you are constantly seeing a high level of burst magic damage

While striders are a step up from red boots they are simply not good or even remotely good enough when in comparison to the other upgraded boots. So as i said if you can afford phase treads or plated then you would never pick striders unless you could not afford better.

ez :smile:

[SmurfinBird]

I would suggest not trying to use a ratio as its impossible to even get it remotely close as every game lineup is drastically different


Are you joking? Of course there's a different lineup most games, it's called an example.



Plated would be better vs a majority phys damage team while steamboots would be better vs a majority magic dmg team. You have to understand there is no right or wrong.

I obviously understand the two types of damage, what is the reason for not comparing survivability vs the two types and a split of the two? It covers every scenario, would you like us to do anything else to dumb it down to your level? (http://troll.me/images/jackie-chan-whut/what-the-hell-i-dont-even-thumb.jpg)

Your writing is awfully patronising, the whole point is that there is a difference in the two types as you noted above, then you go on to say
does not mean you just split it in two.

but then you say

Plated would be better vs a majority phys damage team while steamboots would be better vs a majority magic dmg team. .

Make up your damn mind, you write as if you have the attention span of a goldfish. That is called a ratio, although you don't specify any values.



While striders are a step up from red boots they are simply not good or even remotely good enough when in comparison to the other upgraded boots. So as i said if you can afford phase treads or plated then you would never pick striders unless you could not afford better.

Please just re-read my post, you appear to of forgotten what I replied with.

"Striders are great for certain gankers for the early game map dominance, and to obtain core items faster than if you were to go ghosts etc. (such as a portal key on pebbles)."

[MacroHard]

Everyone needs to stop arguing. Steamboots are amazing boots. They are great against medium to heavy magic teams. They have awesome synergy with bottling. The stat toggle can make the difference between life and death. The attack speed cannot be excluded.

blah blah

The point of this is as follows:
New players are often told to get steamboots for survival and just leave them on strength
There are a substantial number of cases where plated greaves adds more survival
HoN has many physical damage spells/heroes (:monk: :drun: :pand: :dead: :pred: :noma: :swif: :nigh: :pest: etc)
Plated Greaves is statistically used 5% as often as Steamboots
They are significantly under-represented considering that Steamboots are typically used as survival for non-attacking spellcasters

No more arguing. Good players can clearly make their own choices. I just want to dispel this myth that Steamboots should be core for squishy spellcasters.

[SmurfinBird]

Your reasons for creating the thread are completely justified and understood - The way I present my viewpoint as a counter point to Gaminos seems to make everything argumentative. Either way, all of the posts above would be unessential if his own objective view was not so self-contradicting.

We should be able to compare survivability on a basis of ratios of damage types by principle, yet since there is apparent disagreement I find it appropriate to respond.

If we couldn't, most of the mathematical explanations you yourself have made, macro, in regards to EHP would be void.

More OT, however, what are your thoughts on movespeed boosting survivability ? Plated have +10ms over steamboots, is this something to consider when taking into account maximum attacks an enemy can obtain while chasing as well as avoiding skillshots?

[MacroHard]

More OT, however, what are your thoughts on movespeed boosting survivability ? Plated have +10ms over steamboots, is this something to consider when taking into account maximum attacks an enemy can obtain while chasing as well as avoiding skillshots?

Let's put it this way. My wife buys red boots as a first item almost every game. More often than not that 50 ms saves her from giving first blood as she just barely outruns the enemy with 10 health remaining. For some people movespeed is the preferred method of survival.

(note, I do not recommend the above)

[SmurfinBird]

Let's put it this way. My wife buys red boots as a first item almost every game. More often than not that 50 ms saves her from giving first blood as she just barely outruns the enemy with 10 health remaining. For some people movespeed is the preferred method of survival.

(note, I do not recommend the above)

Nothing really calculable unless it's a straight line chase though I guess - deciding to chase under a tower early game etc is a human choice :o.

That is kind of what separates the boots though - static EHP and side abilities and movespeed (Ghosts unitwalk, Plated pushing, etc.)

[Dogbarf]

Im guessing a lot of has to do with the fact that you can make steamboots entirely at the outpost (6int item + gloves) where you have to courrier or go back to base for the plated. Just a thought

[GnarlyGoat]

By using the logic posted in the OP, could it be argued that Ringmail provides greater survivability than Fortified Bracers? If the +5 armour from Plated Grieves provides more survivability than the +10 strength you get from Steamboots, surely the +5 armour you get from Ringmail is even better than the +6 Strength you get from bracers. Taking this concept even further, how does the HP you get from Bracers compare to the +3 Armour that you get from The Ring Of The Teacher?

Most games I play I usually always grab at least one pair of bracers in the name of increasing survivability, but if what Macro says about Grieves Vs Steamboots can also be applied to Fortified Bracers maybe I’m better off buying Ringmail or Ring Of The Teacher instead. Obviously, the +3 to the other stats from Bracers is pretty useful, and it’s probably situational which one you would go for in any given game, but if we’re in the game of dispelling myths I think it’s worth investigating.

GnarlyGoat

[SmurfinBird]

By using the logic posted in the OP, could it be argued that Ringmail provides greater survivability than Fortified Bracers? If the +5 armour from Plated Grieves provides more survivability than the +10 strength you get from Steamboots, surely the +5 armour you get from Ringmail is even better than the +6 Strength you get from bracers. Taking this concept even further, how does the HP you get from Bracers compare to the +3 Armour that you get from The Ring Of The Teacher?

Most games I play I usually always grab at least one pair of bracers in the name of increasing survivability, but if what Macro says about Grieves Vs Steamboots can also be applied to Fortified Bracers maybe I’m better off buying Ringmail or Ring Of The Teacher instead. Obviously, the +3 to the other stats from Bracers is pretty useful, and it’s probably situational which one you would go for in any given game, but if we’re in the game of dispelling myths I think it’s worth investigating.

GnarlyGoat

Depends on the health before the bracer- think of it like magic armour's rule of "if you're under 1000hp, buy more hp. If you're over 1000hp, and under 5.5 armour, buy armour."

Ring of the Teacher gives +6 damage and a mana regen aura ontop of the armour though.

[triplej]

conclusion use :PlatedGreaves: for :balp: :warb: :keep: :cthu: :phar: :mora: :arma: :elec: :zeph: :accu: :jera::defi: :ophe::soulr:
its better especially when combined with Helm

Get Plated Greaves on Warbeast and I will do everything in my power to get an ICBM launched at your house. Leave Puzzlebox backdooring to KotF - he's a carry, plain and simple, and should be built as such.


Let's put it this way. My wife buys red boots as a first item almost every game. More often than not that 50 ms saves her from giving first blood as she just barely outruns the enemy with 10 health remaining. For some people movespeed is the preferred method of survival.

(note, I do not recommend the above)

I honestly thought this was a sexual metaphor when I first read it. Internet, what have you done to me?

Also, are you Will Ferrel?

[Nytemair]

It's true, he is actually Will "MacroHard" Ferrel. :)))

[Shamanovitch]

Supposing you can buy a bit more than your boots what are the pro and cons of :Steamboots:+:Ringmail: VS :PlatedGreaves:+:MysticVestments: ?

[Dominare]

what are the pro and cons of :Steamboots:+:Ringmail: VS :PlatedGreaves:+:MysticVestments: ?

The second pair will scale much, much better with your hit point total than the first pair, because it includes vestments.

[Radio_Raheem]

now if only they would follow your suggestion macro and make plated greaves at least equal to the sum of its parts. ofc, now that you've posted this, that would make plated greaves the #1 boots in no time.

[PonyPummeler]

HoN is filled with physical damage. Unlike another unnamed competing game, Heroes of Newerth contains many physical damage abilities.

LoL has actually plenty of physical damage abilities.

[Green]

Nooooo, don't tell all the noobs about my secret plated greaves

[Cyanotic]

These are some very good points.
I, like a lot of players end up ignoring Greaves for some reason.
Thanks for the statistics. I will try using Plated Greaves instead some games and see how it goes.

[Fen__]

I would still get steamboots on almost every int hero (if im not going for ghost marchers) if i can aford it early since +25 a.speed is huge at beggining of the game when everyone got similar dmg.

[Assassine]

mind updating this for the greaves buff macro? They now give you 7.42 Armor if you manage to activate them.

[Sherwood]

I prefer platedgreaves on 'pure tank' or support (when not smushed) because it gives +2 to all stats, armour and an AOE armour buff. Most support heroes are int and will never switch steamboots to Int. Platedgreaves offers survivability whilst providing a smidgen of primary stat, a fair compromise. The armour as established is very nice. The use can buff allies as well which makes it a good universal support item as this the cheapest form of armour buff after ring of the teacher. You already will get boots anyway so you pay 800g. Sol's Bulwark is 1900g. Most melee physical semi carries will tend to make sols' bulwark after boots (and HOTBL). You risk conflict of interest. If it's a pub game, they'll put it on - anyway.

I wish there was more use for Shield of the Five. This item doesn't need to exist. Its only existence is to make Plated Greaves a more reliable and safer build up then a 800g upfront investment.

Since most ranged support won't really be in a position to auto attack, particular short-ranged ones like Andromeda, the attack speed won't be useful. Steamboots offer late game presence, but you shouldn't have that much farm.

[Zapteinis]

These days you can build up plated greaves then later split and upgrade to steamboots and sac stone, profit?

[Sylfuris]

At the moment I'm in love with this topic, so let me pls bump to thank the author.

[Ryskaposten]

Firstly please don't respond to my posts with ridiculous troll quotes. You cannot apply a 50/50 magic/phys damage income ratio as a standard figure for all games. Its seriously retarded to even try as every game differs so much.

Secondly you cannot define survivability as Physical mitigation only, also in this point you contradict your previous 50%/50% point.

Thirdly the example given is referring to the Two boots in question Steam & Greaves, it does not apply to all the boots as this is not what the Thread is about. And also, striders are a rubbish pickup on the vast majority of heros only picked up when the income is tight but given an option no hero would ever pick striders.

You said it yourself, every game differs from the other, do not get the freaking plated if you are up against heavy nukes... Im just not sure if you are trolling or not, it's obvious that steamies are much better for hp than the armor from plated if they have no physical...