APM stat in stats overview

[Prophetts]

Hey,

I just cant find what the stat APM stands for in the statistics overview. Searched forum didnt come up with stuff so, here goes.

Does any1 know.

Thanks.

[Glorify1]

Actions per minute.

Also, it's currently bugged if you're controlling multiple units. For example, if you are playing war beast and have your summons out, you have 3 units under the control group counting as 3 actions per click.

[Prophetts]

aahh cool. I usually get the highest APM, does moving around count as actions, guess so. that would explain me having loads lol... >< nervous clicking:p

[TreeHorse]

Better nervous clicking (aka paying attention) than the alternative (not paying attention, autoattacking).

[Coolica]

IMO APM is just a way to boost one's ego. I honestly probably have very low APM because I prefer not to do much unecessary movements and clicks, but that doesn't automatically mean I'm a nub.

Although there is a direct correlation between high apm while using high micro heroes and success with said heroes (aka tempest, Ophelia, etc.)

[Pride82]

Well, it's solely not the APM, but with the performance you're giving AND by noting APM, you can tell quite a bit about a player. But yes, you can very often stay on lane staticly just pressing "hold position" for few seconds. Also if you "play cool", you can walk by single clicking your location (on your screen) instead of bashing like crazy. :)

[turdle]

in dota there are alot of situations where high apm is actually very valuable. the diffrence between high and higher means nothing though. If you have low apm like under 120 youre most likely not a good player.

[FiNGERS]

If you have low apm like under 120 youre most likely not a good player.[/QUOTE]

2 clicks per second? Between all the fountain trips, checking for runes, buying items, walking out to lane? Anyone OVER 120APM has ADD.

[china]

APM is kept up in lanes by the constant dancing, because it's like a warm-up for when it really matters.

Like how an athlete does stretches, a gamer will click a lot. Keeps consistency for when things get heated. Plus, RTS players do it as well, as seen in SC or WC, or any RTS, where the initial build phase is filled with constant clicking, selecting, deselecting, unit/building grouping, and moving between them all.

[Reonhato]

but an athlete doesnt do the 100m sprint over and over again so why should gamers click like crazy the whole game. i see people moving around like crazy, going in circles before the first wave of creeps even spawn, if your not checking runes it should take you a total of 1 click to get in position, not 500.

you say anyone below 120 apm isnt a good player, i say anyone above ~120 (depends on hero) is just inefficient with their clicking.

[Glorify1]

If you have low apm like under 120 youre most likely not a good player.

2 clicks per second? Between all the fountain trips, checking for runes, buying items, walking out to lane? Anyone OVER 120APM has ADD.[/QUOTE]

Don't make fun of my ADD. :(

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6308/statsscreen.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/i/statsscreen.jpg/)

[china]

but an athlete doesnt do the 100m sprint over and over again so why should gamers click like crazy the whole game. i see people moving around like crazy, going in circles before the first wave of creeps even spawn, if your not checking runes it should take you a total of 1 click to get in position, not 500.

you say anyone below 120 apm isnt a good player, i say anyone above ~120 (depends on hero) is just inefficient with their clicking.

Like I said, warm up.

If you don't agree, then fine. You make it seem like an arduous task, clicking.

[Reonhato]

it is when you spend 12+ hours a day sitting in front of a computer, im sure im not the only one who spends his/her day on a computer, comes home and gets on the computer.

[Dark_Kevin]

When moving, I click about 10 times because I'm unsure about the pathing.
Also, does spamming stop add APM?

[china]

it is when you spend 12+ hours a day sitting in front of a computer, im sure im not the only one who spends his/her day on a computer, comes home and gets on the computer.

Haha, I've had two occupations like that, one in data management, the other in an architectural firm.

I still had the drive to play DotA and click like a fiend. It's cause I'm hardcore yo! :]

Overall, it does boost the ego a bit ;)

[Pyrate]

in 10 years time us 'ima use hold' guys with 60 APM will be loling at you 120+ APM peeps with your sore fingers

[TowerDive]

You will often see the higher APM someone has, more likely they are better then someone with lower apm.

[Pyrate]

You will often see the higher APM someone has, more likely they are better then someone with lower apm.

this is just plain wrong, with 1 hero to control anything above 60-70 apm is a waste. Average APM tells very little about a player, you need peak apm to find out more. At the start of games there are some players who will walk all the way to their lane in 1 click, others take 50-100 clicks.

You can argue about "warming up" and "avoiding ganks" but it isnt necessary to click 100 times just to from your base to the outer tower.

Look at this video for example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oq2bsVRge0&feature=related
Pay attention at the start, notice that to move half a screen to Kongor he clicks 5 times in the same spot. If you count the total clicks for him to move from the Ancient stack, to check the Rune and then to Kongor it is around 16. Thats 16 clicks to move about 2-3 screen lengths, totally pointless, considering half of those is clicking in the same spot twice.

[Decency]

Find a top level DotA or HoN player with sub-60 APM and then you might have a point. Until then, the complete lack of a counter-example says that high APM is very likely required to be good, whether the clicks are wasted or not.

Posturing and reactivity, if nothing else.

[sieneh]

this is just plain wrong, with 1 hero to control anything above 60-70 apm is a waste. Average APM tells very little about a player, you need peak apm to find out more. At the start of games there are some players who will walk all the way to their lane in 1 click, others take 50-100 clicks.

You can argue about "warming up" and "avoiding ganks" but it isnt necessary to click 100 times just to from your base to the outer tower.

Look at this video for example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oq2bsVRge0&feature=related
Pay attention at the start, notice that to move half a screen to Kongor he clicks 5 times in the same spot. If you count the total clicks for him to move from the Ancient stack, to check the Rune and then to Kongor it is around 16. Thats 16 clicks to move about 2-3 screen lengths, totally pointless, considering half of those is clicking in the same spot twice.

I prefer the hold/S method(though early game I usually do a little dance before last hits), my normal APMs are anywhere between 70 and 100.

Yet on average I have 15-20(more depending on how long I spend in the lane phase) denies and 100ish creep kills in ~30 mins.

Using your clicks rationally and efficiently > clicking like a maniac.

One of the reasons you SHOULD be clicking while running away and avoiding ganks(and its an old SC/WC/RTS in general trick) is that units give a little "jolt" when moving, their initial movement is a bit faster then their "normal" speed, constantly clicking means that they will "run" all the time.
Also, pathing is much better if you keep spamming to a spot, than just click and let it go.

If you don't believe me, try it out with 2 Zerglings(time it if you want), keep clicking one like a maniac and just click the other once.

[Malladin]

APM does give an idication of good knowledge and ability with DotA and HoN. However, as with every other stat the game gives, it is not the be-all-end-all. A higher APM doesnt make the better player, just like PSR doesnt, nor does K/D/A. Anyone who thinks it is just ego boosting is missing the point, and anyone who believes low APM = bad player is pretty narrow minded.

[Reonhato]

You will often see the higher APM someone has, more likely they are better then someone with lower apm.

i beg to differ, personally i think the reason a lot of the high tier players click more is simply they happen to be all in the same group of people who use to play RTSs a helluva lot.



http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9886/sdfgsdfgsdfgfs.jpg

[ImmortalTecz]

2 clicks per second? Between all the fountain trips, checking for runes, buying items, walking out to lane? Anyone OVER 120APM has ADD.


Don't make fun of my ADD. :(

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6308/statsscreen.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/i/statsscreen.jpg/)
That was many APM o.O what add you have?

[Ruscour]

Worth noting that the players with the most (not too many) actions per minute usually get the best stats.

[sieneh]

Its not how many times you click, its what you do with those clicks as it is clearly shown there :p

[nilsen1]

IMO APM is just a way to boost one's ego. I honestly probably have very low APM because I prefer not to do much unecessary movements and clicks, but that doesn't automatically mean I'm a nub.

Although there is a direct correlation between high apm while using high micro heroes and success with said heroes (aka tempest, Ophelia, etc.)

Actually, it does.

[Pyrate]

Worth noting that the players with the most (not too many) actions per minute usually get the best stats.

Reonhatos post shows that its not true.

1st game

Most Kills APM - 59.1
Most Deaths APM - 152.3

2nd game

People on 9-0 and 3-1-17 APM of 97.3 and 69.6
People on 2-7 and 2-5 APM of 104.8 and 116.2

3rd game

People (including me) with a KD of >4 have APM of 90, 63 and 56
Person on 0-5 APM of 120, Person with 0-6 with APM of 103
3-5 has APM of 130

4th game

Person on 6-3 has APM of 39
Person on 3-6 has APM of 198.8


If APM means so much how come a player can just go to their games and pick out a bunch of games that clearly shows that the people with APMs of 50-100 outperform those with >100

[Reonhato]

Worth noting that the players with the most (not too many) actions per minute usually get the best stats.

did you not see my pic?

[ruskor]

im never over 80 APM

50-80 max. do i suck now?

[Decency]

did you not see my pic?

You're posting pub games and referring to K:D ratio as if either means anything, congrats.

[jol1nar1]

One of the reasons you SHOULD be clicking while running away and avoiding ganks(and its an old SC/WC/RTS in general trick) is that units give a little "jolt" when moving, their initial movement is a bit faster then their "normal" speed, constantly clicking means that they will "run" all the time.
Also, pathing is much better if you keep spamming to a spot, than just click and let it go.

If you don't believe me, try it out with 2 Zerglings(time it if you want), keep clicking one like a maniac and just click the other once.

i'm sorry but that's just a bunch of crap. last time i checked this was hon not broodwar.
and yes. i tested what you said. 2 hellbourne behes walking side to side on top lane. one issued the move command once. one clicked like crazy. they had same ms.
only advantage in clicking to escape is to avoid creep blocks.
i did manage to get something like 18 4 with a magebane with 40 apm.
and again. this is not starcraft.

[Rubenros]

To be frank- who the f'ck needs a "warmup" for "when it happens" I know i warm up before i train, but hell- i don't need to warmup before my frantic clicking 8)

One thing to do would to avoid arrows/aoe stuns etc- but really, there's absolutely NO use in running around when they're not showing signs of trying, I'd, rather have a close eye at my enemies, and at the other lanes (start dancig when the mid valk is miss) and last hit with h/a - the only thing i find rather unavoidable to react on (as in, if he's thrown the spells, it pretty much will hit you if you werent allready running around) is maliken's sword toss, witch i belive got nerfed last patch.

Most of the end-game players have high psr , however there's alot of noobs with it aswell, you recognice a good player from his actions, but not how many he does.

[Murlox]

it's currently bugged if you're controlling multiple units. For example, if you are playing war beast and have your summons out, you have 3 units under the control group counting as 3 actions per click.

Thank you for ruining my dreams of me being Korean when playing Ophelia (320 apm average).

[Flair]

I prefer the hold/S method(though early game I usually do a little dance before last hits), my normal APMs are anywhere between 70 and 100.

Yet on average I have 15-20(more depending on how long I spend in the lane phase) denies and 100ish creep kills in ~30 mins.

Using your clicks rationally and efficiently > clicking like a maniac.

One of the reasons you SHOULD be clicking while running away and avoiding ganks(and its an old SC/WC/RTS in general trick) is that units give a little "jolt" when moving, their initial movement is a bit faster then their "normal" speed, constantly clicking means that they will "run" all the time.
Also, pathing is much better if you keep spamming to a spot, than just click and let it go.

If you don't believe me, try it out with 2 Zerglings(time it if you want), keep clicking one like a maniac and just click the other once.
That's nothing but old wives talk unless you can provide a video of it.
Never heard about it, experienced it or seen it.

Even if it exists in any of those games, this is HoN and has nothing to do with those in that regard.

[Pyrate]

yeh its bullshit, a unit cant exceed its maximum speed, not matter how many times you click, if anything excessive clicking can slow you down by having excessive sideways movement.

[Decency]

The poster talking about StarCraft is wrong. What you can do is spam forced attack with Ultralisks and SCV's to increase their attack speed. But I'm very very sure you can't increase move speed with spammed clicks.

[Trazgo]

I know that I personally have lower APMs in games where I do poorly, and higher ones in games where I do well. (Probably due to less time spent being dead.)

Up to a certain point APM is useful. Like circumnavigating a creepwave instead of being creepblocked (requires many clicks due to poor pathing instead of a single click).

That being said there's no real reason to spam-click the fountain and make the courier run in circles (although I enjoy courier spinning very much).

However, some heroes like Ophelia do need significantly more APM than normal heroes to be effective. When I see 300+ APM Ophelia players (There's a screenshot on the forums of a 600+ game) I understand that it's probably useful microing of the creeps more than click-spamming.

[Hurfdurf]

40 APM as Arachna, she really is easy to pub stomp with :D

[Sadhe]

Screenshot

I don't agree with your little observation, as for one, the sample is too small, and another, 2–4 stats don't decide what a good player is, but an interesting thing to notice is this:

Lowest APM: 0/4/0 KDA
Highest APM: 3/6/4 KDA

APM does not absolutely make a good player, as someone said, it's not the amount of actions, but the actions themself. Good players just generally have a higher AP.

[brownymaster]

Moving around for no reason helps sometimes when they have heroes like Valk or an invised Soulstealer just because you have a higher chance of moving out of range. Other than that, it doesn't do as much besides keep you warmed up. I have high APM because I constantly look around my area and it's easier if I click around ><. Also some RTS/FPS/ADD element too.

[cruorem1]

sorry, i've had multiple accounts of where my denies and kills are high with low apm, wins and losses alike. pay no mind to apm

[Piava]

You can't have a really low apm and still get the most out of a hero, but on the other hand there's no need to spamclick like a maniac either. It's just dumb to say a number, if you're playing Ophelia you should obviously end up with higher apm than if you're playing a less micro-intensive hero. People used to playing rts will probably end up with a higher apm than others and so on.

[thewishkah]

i see people moving around like crazy, going in circles before the first wave of creeps even spawn,.

i'd attribute most of that to boredom / impatience.

zephyr doing the moonwalk is a pimp sight to behold

[Ruscour]

i'd attribute most of that to boredom / impatience.

Zephyr doing the moonwalk is a pimp sight to behold
haters gonna hate

[Reonhato]

1 game today, 1 game that high apm= better is defied http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5896/fffffffsafdsfdsfdsf.jpg

[Decency]

No one's claiming that it takes skill to have APM.
We're claiming that it takes APM to have skill.

Posting these screenshots of low level pub games are thus completely and fully irrelevant.
Try posting a screenshot of someone in a high level competitive game with a low APM, and then you might have a point.

[Pyrate]

No one's claiming that it takes skill to have APM.
We're claiming that it takes APM to have skill.

Posting these screenshots of low level pub games are thus completely and fully irrelevant.
Try posting a screenshot of someone in a high level competitive game with a low APM, and then you might have a point.

Once again, any sane person argues that APM is not related to skill whatsoever. APM is required in typical RTS when you have many units to control and micro, when you have 1 unit to give commands to there is no need to issue 3 commands every seconds.

In terms of HoN APM has very little meaning. Most people with high APM spam click, its called spam click because it is not necessary. 60 APM is 1 command per second, there are times when you will exceed that and times when you wont, ie going back to the fountain, there is no need to click on the fountain 15 times, and then spend 10 seconds running around in circles with another 50 clicks, but people do it, and then claim that they guy who clicks on the fountain once and then stands there while healing is noob because he has a lower APM.

For example, in a 45 minute game if you go back to the fountain 8 times, each time it takes 30 seconds from entering your base, healing and leaving your base.

Player A clicks from the tower clicks 15 times to get to the fountain, then proceeds to dance around in the fountain, before moving out, using 50 clicks. In that 30 seconds he has an APM of 130.

Player B clicks once from the tower, and then once to go back out of the base (to the tower). Thats 2 clicks in 30 seconds, for an APM of 4.

Now both players achieved exactly the same thing, but one did it in 16 clicks, the other used 520.

[Reonhato]

No one's claiming that it takes skill to have APM.
We're claiming that it takes APM to have skill.

Posting these screenshots of low level pub games are thus completely and fully irrelevant.
Try posting a screenshot of someone in a high level competitive game with a low APM, and then you might have a point.

but for your theory to work it must work across all levels, it does not. i will say it again. the reason the high tier players have high APMs has nothing to do with there skill rather to do with their gaming background as hardcore players of most likely games like warcraft3/starcraft ect

as an Aussie i will use cricket in my analogy

what makes a player do well against England playing for Australia is the exact same things as a player doing well playing for his C grade club vs another C grade club. the basics are exactly the same the only difference is the skill level of the players. the thing is though because the C grader is playing vs other C graders his "stats" will be very similar to that of some1 playing for Australia

now the fact that i can do well vs some1 with similar stats to me by using 70 apm vs there 140 shows apm is an indicator of nothing but how much some1 likes to click in the fountain

[Decency]

Your analogies are worthless. Every player who has ever played this game or it's predecessor at a top level has a high APM. If you want to dismiss that as coincidence, you're more than welcome to, but don't expect "sane people" to agree with you.

[Travakh]

Your analogies are worthless. Every player who has ever played this game or it's predecessor at a top level has a high APM. If you want to dismiss that as coincidence, you're more than welcome to, but don't expect "sane people" to agree with you.

I did high level scrims all the time back in dota and scrim every so often in HoN.

I have fun posting minimal apm stats. 35 APM krakens, 50 APM TDL, 40 APM Panda, etc. APM is meaningless in this game, especially when there's quite obviously a minimal correlation between APM and performance.

[Heridshire]

For example, in a 45 minute game if you go back to the fountain 8 times, each time it takes 30 seconds from entering your base, healing and leaving your base.Yeah, but rarely you go back to the fountain 8 times, unless u die or are maybe playing a support with an early bad game. In truth in competitive games you barely back to the fountain, except in some extraordinary cases. Each team always has a courier, and they use it often enough.

The point about APM is that you don't spend your time doing useless things. Now when someone has an APM of 170+ you can be almost sure he's spamming those clicks you were referring to. But an APM of 40, 60 or even 80 is below par. It means the player spends a lot of time not managing their hero. It's common when the person use attack ground or click to move to a place and then do something else, and ends up being blocked by creeps or other things. And these are typical bad habits someone unskilled have. Thus, that's what our friend Decency meant with:

No one's claiming that it takes skill to have APM. We're claiming that it takes APM to have skill.Btw, regarding:
but for your theory to work it must work across all levels, it does not.Its not true. I don't know much about cricket, so I didn't really understand your point. Nonetheless, His theory is that someone skilled necessarily has high, or at least above average - say 110+ - APM. Additionnaly, he's arguing that anyone can have high APM, due to those click spamming. See, at low level games, people who have high APM, according to him, are click spamming. But at high level games, they all have high APM, not due to spamming, but as a characteristic of having skill.

This is easy to comprehend: they can spam clicking, and that explains the 170+, but what explain the average 110+ of high level games is that they won't address an order to the hero and just look elsewhere. They will minuciously watch every second, making small adjustments to guarantee that the hero does exactly what they wish, in the most optimal way possible.

The theory treats each case, high and low level games, differently. So it does work across all levels, but you have to understand its specifications.



Edit: @Travakh: I can't really give credit to your personal experience, due to your current stats. Maybe bring someone to testimony that has some background to support it. Note that my stats aren't great either, but I'm just rationalizing, not using my personal experience as an argument.

[Pyrate]

Yeah, but rarely you go back to the fountain 8 times, unless u die or are maybe playing a support with an early bad game. In truth in competitive games you barely back to the fountain, except in some extraordinary cases. Each team always has a courier, and they use it often enough.

The point about APM is that you don't spend your time doing useless things. Now when someone has an APM of 170+ you can be almost sure he's spamming those clicks you were referring to. But an APM of 40, 60 or even 80 is below par. It means the player spends a lot of time not managing their hero. It's common when the person use attack ground or click to move to a place and then do something else, and ends up being blocked by creeps or other things. And these are typical bad habits someone unskilled have. Thus, that's what our friend Decency meant with:
Btw, regarding: Its not true. I don't know much about cricket, so I didn't really understand your point. Nonetheless, His theory is that someone skilled necessarily has high, or at least above average - say 110+ - APM. Additionnaly, he's arguing that anyone can have high APM, due to those click spamming. See, at low level games, people who have high APM, according to him, are click spamming. But at high level games, they all have high APM, not due to spamming, but as a characteristic of having skill.

This is easy to comprehend: they can spam clicking, and that explains the 170+, but what explain the average 110+ of high level games is that they won't address an order to the hero and just look elsewhere. They will minuciously watch every second, making small adjustments to guarantee that the hero does exactly what they wish, in the most optimal way possible.

The theory treats each case, high and low level games, differently. So it does work across all levels, but you have to understand its specifications.



Edit: @Travakh: I can't really give credit to your personal experience, due to your current stats. Maybe bring someone to testimony that has some background to support it. Note that my stats aren't great either, but I'm just rationalizing, not using my personal experience as an argument.


"It's common when the person use attack ground or click to move to a place and then do something else, and ends up being blocked by creeps or other things"


This still doesnt explain why people use 100 clicks just to move down a lane. You can move around creeps in a couple of clicks. Not looking at your hero is a noob thing to do, but just because someone uses 1 command to move across the map doesnt mean they are not paying attention.

"They will minuciously watch every second, making small adjustments to guarantee that the hero does exactly what they wish, in the most optimal way possible"

The counter arguement to this is that it is not necessary to be constantly adjusting your heros movements, such as at the start of a match, moving to the rune or your lane. There is no chance that the enemy is waiting just outside your base, so using 20 clicks to move into the jungle is just spamming. Another example, a team battle has finished and you killed 3 of them and 2 of them limped back to heal, you yourself are hurt and need to go back to the fountain. 3 of them are dead and the other 2 were on red hp and heading back to their fountain. There is no gank waiting around the corner, all you have to do is click on the fountain and follow your hero on the screen just in case he gets blocked or something. It isnt necessary to click 50 times up the lane to go to the fountain.

There are so many situations where people can use less clicks. A lot of people with high APM click on the same location many times, in the belief of the old wives tale that it makes the pathing better. News flash, it doesnt. The game calculates the best path based on your destination, clicking on the destination for the 5th time still gets you the same result as the first time you clicked.

[Heridshire]

Tell me, Pyrate, do you save energy? I mean, you always use the less energy possible, turn off every single light minimaly unnecessary? Do you save water? Do you brush your teeth with the water flowing? Do you turn off the valve when you are washing your hair?

I mean, I do some of these things and some I don't. It varies from person to person. The point is yes, is some situations you described people could use less clicks, but some people use less, and some people use more. It's just human behavior. Now, it's different from just spamming the clicks when healing in the fountain, like spinning your hero around. But it's also way too different from just issuing orders without paying attention to the outcome, as said.

There is a "mid term", which is often referred to as high APM. Which is essentially not high, but just above average. Like 100+ or so. When you die, it will inevitably decrease, and if you use the courier a lot it will inevitably increase.

I may have exaggerated with the sentence you quoted, but it was metaphorically. My point always was that if you avoid walking long paths, which is what most often lower your APM, and which is highly desirable, since its inefficient, your APM simply cannot be lesser than 90. And it would be 90 or so if you were the most efficient possible, which human beings aren't. Less than that means you are missing something, more than that may mean you are spamming, or may mean you had a busy game. A lot more than that certainly means you are spamming.

Btw, the game calculates the best path in terms of distance, but there are so many other factors that must be taken into account. For instance, you'd often walk on the river if you just let the game decide the path, but we know it's not good for your health.

[Travakh]

Example of 'subpar' APM.
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7514/shot0114x.jpg



Edit: @Travakh: I can't really give credit to your personal experience, due to your current stats. Maybe bring someone to testimony that has some background to support it. Note that my stats aren't great either, but I'm just rationalizing, not using my personal experience as an argument.

That's just very, very slightly offensive, given how I

1. never pubstomp, or even bother pubbing anymore
2. do not inflate my stats by pubstomping
3. generally do team scrims with either my clan or an in house team from dota against other in house/clan teams at a similar level

If by now you haven't figured out how meaningless public-rated gamestats are I'm not entirely sure how justified you are at judging anyone.

oh to hell with it, here have some matchstats
9641487 - Clan In house, 60apm Panda
9483418 - Scrim. 52apm Pharaoh
9297676 - Scrim. 61apm silencer
9165835 - Scrim. 51apm Panda

[Heridshire]

First of all I apologize if I was offensive. No harm intended.

I never pubstomp either. Nor do I inflate my stats through any means. Nonetheless, I found our stats similar. As I consider myself capable, but not an ideal example of high level player, I used the same judgement on you. You can either ignore it or accept it, but I solely stated that your personal examples weren't enough to convince me. Sorry again if this last sentence sounded agressive.

I generally believe that public-rated gamestats are far from perfect, but give very good, although non-precise, indications of the general skill of a player. You could be an exception, as they exist, but since exceptions aren't good for proving a point then I still feel ok not accepting your point.

I won't bother looking your matchstats due to the previously listed reasons.

Now you can either stop trying to convince me/us of the importance of the APM, or you can come up with a rational argument as dear Pyrate did. I will be glad to hear it and discuss if you want.

Again, and for the last time, I apologize for each sentence I wrote that sounded too agressive for this forum. It's just the way I argue/discuss and it is consequence of too many hours awake, but I meant no harm.

[Kirbz]

the closer you are to 50 apm, the better you are at this game.

[D0ri]

Hey,

I just cant find what the stat APM stands for in the statistics overview. Searched forum didnt come up with stuff so, here goes.

Does any1 know.

Thanks.

Boy, has this thread gone OT...

totally depends what hero your against if you have to dance.

If i am against KOTF....i sit right next to the creep wave...hes really no threat, If i am against Valk....i dance a **** load to make it hard to get hit by arrow

[Tunganet]

Lol sum of u speak as if you've never played against a crazy Korean who moves in an out of your LOS when you're soloing them.

Wut do u do when you're laning? Press H and watch?

Whatever happend to getting into position to last hit and run back, and canceling your actions because somebody is "mia" or your timing is a bit off??

Those of you who says you play higher level scrims or whatever with 40-60 apm, I dont believe you.

[Damage]

Things that make a big difference that don't change gameplay/skill:

1) While laning, pressing hold rather than frantically pacing behind creeps.
2) Ranged vs Melee - Laning with melee requires running back and fourth in and out of creep line.
3) The hero you play - Ophelia/WildSoul normally have higher APM than Ranged hero with passive abilities.
4) Spam clicking - Many people have a habit of sending the same move command three times.

[Konsume]

Things that make a big difference that don't change gameplay/skill:

4) Spam clicking - Many people have a habit of sending the same move command three times.

me... totaly me.... and I play at around 190-200APM.... but.... I got that from RTS where you had to keep the stress on! :D

[Dominare]

60-100 APM is about the sweet spot IMO. Lower than that does indicate a problem, and higher indicates wasted clicks.

[Testknight]

I average between 140-180 APM. I do a lot of that clicking in lanes where I try to fake out opponents as much as possible on last hits (mostly if I'm mid, and I usually try to be). I do a lot of wasteful clicks too, which is probably why I wear down mouses so easily.

This is all assuming I'm not playing Plague. Last time I played that guy I was babysitting Birdman and ended up with a whopping 52 APM. I felt tired after looking at that.

I don't really think APM always = skill though, but activity is a good thing for a skilled player.

[MissSally]

Firstly, I want to make it clear that I'm not someone who spams clicks moving out to lane at start nor walk around in circles while healing at well.

Consistently low APM(<70) is an accurate measurement of not making the maximum usage of your hero.

There many arguements whereby people would rather just H behind the creeps and attempt to last hit/deny instead of "unnessecarily" increasing your APM. That is an example of not maximising your laning. By fake attacking, manipulating the creeps' position or taking an offensive stance by rushing to the front, this adds unpredictability and another dimension to your gameplay.

By fake attacking you are messing up his denies/last hits more effectively than just trying to get the last hit. Forcing the creeps to move to attack you by attacking the opponent hero and moving away immediately also brings lane control to where you can comfortably get the creep kill instead of being denied.

Compared with just H behind, all these moves will definitely increase your APM and also your level of gameplay. This is just an example in where a higher APM reflects in more quality play and there are many more instances.

Of course there are exceptions in games where you don't get a desirable APM. Factors like monotonous 1 dimensional heroes: Chronos, Keeper etc which will impede your APM. But if you find you APM still always low, you know you have room to improve.:)

[CosmicJ]

My APM is 132 but I'm also the type of person who feels that the foot jiggle is a necessity.

Skill in HoN comes down to experience, intelligence and reflexes not mouse click total. =]

[Spectral]

My APM is 132 but I'm also the type of person who feels that the foot jiggle is a necessity.

Skill in HoN comes down to experience, intelligence and reflexes not mouse click total. =]

Good post.
Its basically just a useless statistic useful only for measuring your e-peen.

[Zentry]

There is such a thing as not clicking enough and clicking too much. It's alot easier to not click enough than it is to click to much, and no one has really suggested otherwise. High level players probably have higher apm just because they are more competitive and more into the match they are playing; some heroes can get by with few clicks and others would find that very limiting.

High apm isn't an indicator of skill, but a low apm often is. While there are exceptions to this, it's easy to imagine that someone with an apm of 30 just isn't paying that much attention to the game, while it is very difficult to imagine someone with an apm of 150 to be paying attention to much other than the game.

That's not to say that they know what they are doing, but they certainly are paying attention. If they do know what they are doing, then they are probably doing pretty well.

[Coolica]

Actually, it does.

Sup?

[NortproN]

saying high apm means that you are probably good is like saying playing video games makes you more likely to go nuts and shoot a bunch of people-- it's true but just as a symptom.. most people i play with manage 1700 just fine with 70 apm and no sounds


edit: i had this thread up and though it was fresh, well bash me for a moment then:scou::scou:

[cBu]

I never play above 100apm, mostly at 70apm. And I still managed to go up to 1800psr in public games without friends - before retail.

And the argument with "warming up" is just goddamn bullshit, thats no freaking sport guys, u are just clicking with your mouse.

Im quite positive my apm goes up to 200 in a big fight but that doesnt mean its 200 the whole game.

If you measure the uapm (useful actions per minute), I am 100% positive that nobody is over 100apm.

[Vins]

Doing a lot of animation cancelling and trying to lasthit every creep in the lane perfectly, juking and game minds in general creates a lot of APM. That's what skilled players will always always do, and that's how they come out with high APM.

[Pebbles]

You are doing it wrong if you are like 1600 with 200 APM, watch out for carpal tunnel syndrome you guys! My average used to be like 130, don't know about now..