Chronos and items

[sealiNe]

Yo,

So basically i don't have problems with any other hero in the game only Chronos. Everyone is talking about how game breakening he is. But i feel that he really needs that 1 hour farm to get those items. When i played void in dota i felt like he was way to imba and i knew i was gonna pwn with him as fast as i got him.

I just played a game where i had a good start with lots og creep kills and denies. Got myself a loggers hatchet 2 minor totems, health potion and runes of the blight.

We were winning badly and in the end i had 5.0 (can't remmember how many assists atm)

My items were then: Wingbow, power supply, Alchemist's bones, Elder parasite, enhanced marchers and one soulscream ring.

All these items after alot of farmin, and yet his damage is so bad.

The reason i came here is because i feel im building him wrong.. I remmember that i always got ruined axe(battlefury) first in dota.

This is how i go: After i am done with enhanced marchers and power supply i get Alchemist's bones and 2 soulscrem rings. After that i farm all i can, to get wingbow and that's where it stops. I either win or lose.

[sieneh]

Riftshard would overall do more damage than that wingbow+they(upgrades) are way easier to farm.
Not saying wingbow is bad, it not, just that there are easier and more (useful) alternatives.

Geo Bane also wins on Chronos, much like manta does in dota.

He is game breaking if he gets to endgame, because of a couple of things:

His bash+attack speed= perma stun more or less, chronosphere and his damage which coupled with the fact that you're perma stunned, melts away most int/agi heroes very fast, while STR ones might take a while.

Oh and well placed Chrono ulti works wonders with magmus/SS/ranged heroes in general.

[sealiNe]

Thanks for a great reply :)

But i thought geo bane was out now since bash didn't work on clones? Should i go crit(riftshards) first then and try geo bane and after that a wingbow? Seems pretty imba imo.

[sieneh]

Thanks for a great reply :)

But i thought geo bane was out now since bash didn't work on clones? Should i go crit(riftshards) first then and try geo bane and after that a wingbow? Seems pretty imba imo.

Much like in DoTA, the manta was gotten for damage, rather than more potential bashes.

I prefer getting items in this order, though of course I switch depending on who I'm playing against:

Alcy bones -> Parasite(I prefer playing top hell/bot legion lanes, as they allow me to jungle+lane at the same time, also parasite alone will more or less let you jungle) -> shard -> geo, geo is easier to farm than wingbow(at least in my experience).

Geo also allows you to farm somewhat faster(2 illusions should be good enough to solo the 2 magic immune(equivalent of titans from DoTA) creeps easy at that point, also the wolf camp, maybe even catman champs/minotaurs depending on how good your hero is.

[Workdawg]

Illusions DO gain hero's proc skills (like bash), it is fully intended. Geometers bane usually ends up perma stun on any hero you can get all the illusions on.

My build is usually to rush alch's bones.

Starting items:

Gloves of the Swift
1x Runes of the Blight

This is a risky starting set, since you won't have a way to regen health after your runes are gone, so you have to play conservative and only worry about last hits for gold.

Build Alchemist's Bones ASAP (you can get another set of gloves at the outpost shop). If you use it as much as possible it should pay for itself within 20 minutes. Plus the attack speed will help you stunlock people.

Enhanced Marchers (attack speed... woot, plus you can also buy everything but the boots at the outpost)
Lately I've become a fan of Steamboots though, if you don't think you'll need the extra speed boost, the str or agi from steamboots is definitely worth it. If you set them to agil you get almost the same damage and only lose 18 attack speed, but gain 10 movespeed over e-marchers. And 6 to the other stats.

With steamboots and geo's bane your movespeed will be 412.5. That's actually enough to chase down most heros even while they are buffed from e-marchers. They'd need a base movespeed of 310 (do any heroes even have that much), or have another speed item, to out run you. And you'll be going that fast full time... not just when you pop the buff.

Elder Parasite (you can get the Hungry Spirit at the outpost as well!)

Slash -> Geometer's Bane.

That's a pretty extensive farm, after that a wingbow is great for a big damage boost and the extra evasion ups survivability a lot.

Chronos is a HARD carry, he needs a serious farm to be effective. He can also easily sway any battle for OR against your team. If you drop a bad field, you can hurt your team more than help them.

[Glorify1]

He's game breaking in a way that he loses the game for the team he's on, most of the time.

Elder parasite will just make you take obscene amounts of damage on a hero with really no hitpoint pool to justify it, so I can't suggest that. Really you just hitpoint up and farm until you can get end tier items like wingbow, and then hope they aren't intelligent and shut you down. If they do you have to go shrunken head.

[a_cloth]

He's game breaking in a way that he loses the game for the team he's on, most of the time.

Elder parasite will just make you take obscene amounts of damage on a hero with really no hitpoint pool to justify it, so I can't suggest that. Really you just hitpoint up and farm until you can get end tier items like wingbow, and then hope they aren't intelligent and shut you down. If they do you have to go shrunken head.

The idea for Eldar parasite is that you're not going to be taking damage while in chronospher thus making chronos one of the few good candidates for Eldar.

And wingbow is what makes chronos god due to the 47%ish evasion if you get it.

But chronos sucks don't get him

[Workdawg]

You just have to be careful when you pop Elder Parasite. It's great for farming a lane or recovering some HP against creeps after a fight. It's also good for finishing off the one straggler after a team battle, or if someone trys to solo gank you while you farm. Against a single target, combined with Rewind and your massive attack speed, you should be able to at least break even on the health gain.

[Osyris]

But chronos sucks don't get him

fail

Your build seems good.

As mentioned and echoed, I rush Alch bones (once gotten, this should used at every opportunity), 2 bracers (to make up for his horrid HP pool), enhanced marchers and then Elder. That is core IMO.

From there, it's situational and luxury.

Facing stunners? Geo bane or Shrunken
Pure damage? Riftshards/Shield breaker/savage mace (mace for even more IAS)
More evade and IAS? Wingbow

IMO, once the core mentioned above here is reached, your a serious threat ....

A well placed Chronosphere can be completely devastating to the other team, however, it's not easy and it has to be done right.

Weird though, people still flame after it's well placed. Other night I went to help 2 team mates who were in trouble, I leaped in and ulted and killed 2 of the 3 heroes chasing them (I was well farmed), the 3rd turned tail and ran, both my team mates survived and I still got flak over my chronosphere ...

[Workdawg]

I updated my build because I forgot boots, lol...

Also added some math that I think shows Steamboots to be better than E-Marchers for agility heros (or really any hero with a blink type ability) (also, assuming you get Slash at least).

[TreeHorse]

I updated my build because I forgot boots, lol...

Also added some math that I think shows Steamboots to be better than E-Marchers for agility heros (or really any hero with a blink type ability) (also, assuming you get Slash at least).

Last I checked, E-Marchers are +16dmg/30ias :) the active phase(unitwalking) to me is much more valuable than a +10 static move speed.

[Workdawg]

Last I checked, E-Marchers are +16dmg/30ias :) the active phase(unitwalking) to me is much more valuable than a +10 static move speed.


And flipping the Steamboots to agility gives you 12 agility, which is 12 damage and 12 attack speed (plus a minor amount of armor). Unitwalking is nice, but Chronos' Time Leap can easily be used for the same purpose and has a shorter CD.

Plus you get a bit of str and int too.

[sieneh]

Last I checked, E-Marchers are +16dmg/30ias :) the active phase(unitwalking) to me is much more valuable than a +10 static move speed.

I would rate 12 strenght over 16 damage(and mid/late you can switch to be 12 agi, which means its only a 4 damage/30 IAS difference for +12 on desired stat and +6 on all others), as survivability > damage early game.(imo)
However, the thing that really makes me go steamboots more often now is the fact that phase is now 15 seconds.

[TreeHorse]

Ninja edit man...

Far be it from me to tell you what to do, but you won't catch me dead buying Steamboots on a bash-centric agi carry. Chronos is already one of the most durable agi heroes out there due to Rewind, not to mention having a massive 1300-range blink on a short cd.

[Tripwyr]

I personally would recommend buying Steamboots as well.

Lets compare Enhanced Marchers vs. Strength Steamboots:

Enhanced Marchers:
+10 damage
+24 attack speed
Phase

Strength Steamboots:
+228 health
+78 mana
+5 movement speed

And Enhanced Marchers vs. Agility Steamboots:

Enhanced Marchers:
+4 damage
+18 attack speed
Phase

Agility Steamboots:
+114 health
+78 mana
+5 movement speed

So by getting enhanced marchers, we're losing 228 health, 78 mana and 5 movement speed for 10 damage and 24 attack speed, and a phase effect which was nerfed to oblivion. Chronos at level 25 has around 1500 health, one of the lowest final health pools in the game. You're going to trade the ability to take a full extra nuke and leap one extra time for negligible damage and 3.33% extra movement speed? (10% for 5 seconds every 15 seconds averages to 3.33%)

In conclusion, get Steamboots.

[J0k3]

I think you went alittle overkill with IAS items instead of going for damage. Alche bones & Eldar parasite is really not needed, especially not if you go for wingbow.
Alche bones + enhanced marchers is what i usually get for him for the IAS, then i go for damage items (usually MKB, the true strike item that gives minibash).
I've seen many people going for the chainlightning item on him aswell, which seems to work very well since it also gives tons of IAS.

Well, im not a fan of chronos at all and I feel that most other heroes are way better picks

[TreeHorse]

I think you went alittle overkill with IAS items instead of going for damage. Alche bones & Eldar parasite is really not needed, especially not if you go for wingbow.
Alche bones + enhanced marchers is what i usually get for him for the IAS, then i go for damage items (usually MKB, the true strike item that gives minibash).
I've seen many people going for the chainlightning item on him aswell, which seems to work very well since it also gives tons of IAS.

Well, im not a fan of chronos at all and I feel that most other heroes are way better picks

Good points. I personally don't build Elder Parasite or Alch Bones at all for Chronos. I don't like having negligible autoattack damage outside of bash, just because I spent all my money on IAS items.

Trip, the reason I like enh marchers over Steam is what I just said above. I don't use alchbones or elder parasite, instead I build geometers as fast as possible then go straight for wingbow (maybe throw a whispering helm in there).

Ergo my build needs the attack speed and phase for chasing/fighting since I don't have the elder parasite for MS boost.

[TheoryOfChao]

chronos is a dps hero, despite his low health, his survivability skill is based on 2 aspects
1.) evasion and pseudoevasion. 25% chance to avoid any oncoming atks is massive. And to add 30% evasion from wingbow means u wont be getting hit much at all. 55% of all physical attacks go right through u, and 25% of spells are negligable to u. so focus on dps items, with few exceptions.
2.) common sense. early game you will not engage the enemy unless they stray to close and they are weak early game heroes as well (clearly dont engage enemies like legionnaire). Your mana supply is used to walk-leap away from possible danger.

so for items, i recommend.
1.) enhanced marchers. it gives good early game dps. Steamboots might give you health, but in battles you should be dishing out damage instead of tanking anyway, so enhanced marchers top my list.
2.) elder parasite. Why not whispering helm or abysmal skull? well, elder parasite gives the highest overall dps over the two other items. It also gives u extra movement speed for running away. abysmal skull is the worst choice since it gives the least and it is one of the priciest. i would only recommend whispering helm if its late game and u've gotten everything else, then you can get that and upgrade to symbol of rage.
3.) Riftshard. A cost-effective item that boosts your damage significantly. And you never have to discard it! Just 950 gold for another upgrade when you got spare money.
4/5.) Wingbow or Savage Mace. Savage Mace would come first on my list since parts are cheaper and could damage more-so while farming for the item. The 35% 100 damage proc is also awesome inside chronosphere. Wingbow is good too but takes a little more time since dancing blade is 3300, pricey >"<.
6.) Geometer's Bane. Inside Chronosphere, what's worse than being whacked by an insanely fast and powerful being? Being attacked by 3 of them.

Of course, in practicality these items are the most recommended for chronos. But if the match does drag on and you do become super-duper right, i would recommend.
SUPER-EXPENSIVE LUXERY CHRONOS
1.) Post-Haste. Saves you the effort of walking back and forth. Mostly built for convenience, not power.
2.) Symbol of Rage. 25% lifesteal and massive hp gain + 3 seconds of 150% lifesteal? awesome.
3.) Maxed out Riftshard. 2.2x crit and massive damage, nicee.
4.) Wingbow. Same old same old.
5.) Daemonic Breastplate. With your massive agility, extra armor, and hp from symbol of rage with your evasion? You out-tank most tanks.
6.) Doom-Bringer. What does more damage than getting hit by 3 Chronos? One chronos with massive damage (though geometer's may still be better since it confuses the enemy.

[sieneh]

Except you're all forgetting that in a couple of uses Alcy bones pretty much pay themselves out.

Catman champs give 250 or 270 gold(I forgot)
Minotaurs give 240.
Vulture lords give ~210.

That means 7 uses to fully pay out your alcy bones, I am not counting all the last hits it brought you because of superior attack speed :P

Also, once you get late mid/late game, you should sell them anyway, thats another 700 gold.
So in reality, with 3 uses of alcy bones, you start gaining gold.

[GentleGroove]

phase boots
mask of madness
mkb
mjonnir

[Workdawg]

Yeah, the Alch's bones are a way to get your bash on early, and they do pay for themselves quickly. It'd be the first item I got rid of if I was farmed up enough to need to drop an item, but if you can farm it early, it more than pays for itself by the time you'd get there.

With being such a hard carry, you're probably not doing any fighting during the first 30 mins or so, and by then it'll have paid for itself for sure. So you can sell it and upgrade if you need to.

[GentleGroove]

How does it pay for itself? You use the item instead of last hitting a creep? How is that paying for itself?

[Lolololage]

How does it pay for itself? You use the item instead of last hitting a creep? How is that paying for itself?

Because it gives you 3x the gold that you would normally get, so 210-240 from a catapault.

Thats +140-160 gold every x seconds.

[GentleGroove]

Oh really? Nice.

[coyye]

A misstake many players to is to focus to get bashers for the stun, good idea, yes but waste of money.

As some have statet, Chronos is a pure DPS (damage per second) hero which often means hero killer. Hence you should only focus on DPS items, therefor wingbow is a wicked item for him + the evasion gives over 50% evasion (with his own spell).

I don't think players fully realise how much that is, add some lifesteal to that and you are more or less the ultimate 1 v 1 hero.

So if you're going Chronos think; attackspeed and lifesteal, simple as that.

[Workdawg]

Assuming you're talking about Brutalizer... it doesn't stack with Chronos' bash, so that would be a dumb choice. But yeah... it's all about the DPS with him.

[Hyperman012]

I have seen alot of chronos's do alot of different builds. The most common I have seen is enhanced marchers, elder parasite, RUned axe (imba imo on him), crits, and wingbow. I think as long as u get something with help on attack speed and then go dps.

The reason I think runed axe is imba is because I have seen many chronos go in alittle after a team fight when they are low and kinda running/ retreating slowly he ran in ulted and got atleast 3 kills if not 5.. since they where in the general area with elder parasite and the runed axe splash he just owned all of them. For me Wingbow doesn't make since for a little reason because he has it built in. It kinda seems like a waste. Just like madman has built in crits. does that mean u build crits.. no because it is redundant. Sure wingbow is niced cause he is an agi character and the evasion is just there for a nice bonus. So it also has some viability.

Anyway I spilled my guts about him. Hope you found this helpful

[MoOgLeD]

You're not building him right. You rush an Elder parasite, get boots if you want, then if you're good at dropping your ult, get a Thunderclaw.

Ult, use elder parasite, and start whacking. You'll get doublekills/hat tricks most likely. I do this all the time and it works. You NEED to be good at last hitting, or you wont' be doing well at all.

[Vulpes]

Just like madman has built in crits. does that mean u build crits.. no because it is redundant.

Horrid example. You don't build crits on Madman, bc they don't stack.
If they did (like with Scout, Puppet until recently), everyone would rush Riftshards..

[Onelastpill]

I either go for Enhanced Marchers or Steamboots+Alch's Bones first (depending if I'll need the +12 str or not). First build will be for pubs that let me freefarm and I'll choose second one for more serious games where I'll need the 12 str for mid game and have enough time to make Alch's Bones really worth it.

Then Elder Parasite is absolutely needed : lifesteal gives you enough regen to jungle without having to worry about regen, and the temp buff lets you chase easily and chain bash.

After that I'll often go for Wingbow (at this point towers are starting to go down, I'm getting kills in teamfights and you can own ancient creeps easily with elder's buff so getting the 3300 should be quite easy and quick). Gives around 50% physical evasion which will make you pretty immune to their carries.

And if it's not enough to win game I'll get MKB (forgot the HoN name, the item with dmg/atk speed and minibash/damage proc) for some imba damage boost (while still helping a bit on attack speed)

And at this point I don't know how a team can survive a farmed Chronos if they couldn't slow him enough so their carry is even more farmed. But if game is still going on, I'll be aiming at Riftshards 4 and a Runed Axe for the lulz as last item (splash starts being really usefull on ~1k crits). And Alch's Bone can be swapped for Charged Armor for more AoE lulz or a Shieldbraker if you have high armored ennemies.

[Angriff36]

I either go for Enhanced Marchers or Steamboots+Alch's Bones first (depending if I'll need the +12 str or not). First build will be for pubs that let me freefarm and I'll choose second one for more serious games where I'll need the 12 str for mid game and have enough time to make Alch's Bones really worth it.

Then Elder Parasite is absolutely needed : lifesteal gives you enough regen to jungle without having to worry about regen, and the temp buff lets you chase easily and chain bash.

After that I'll often go for Wingbow (at this point towers are starting to go down, I'm getting kills in teamfights and you can own ancient creeps easily with elder's buff so getting the 3300 should be quite easy and quick). Gives around 50% physical evasion which will make you pretty immune to their carries.

And if it's not enough to win game I'll get MKB (forgot the HoN name, the item with dmg/atk speed and minibash/damage proc) for some imba damage boost (while still helping a bit on attack speed)

And at this point I don't know how a team can survive a farmed Chronos if they couldn't slow him enough so their carry is even more farmed. But if game is still going on, I'll be aiming at Riftshards 4 and a Runed Axe for the lulz as last item (splash starts being really usefull on ~1k crits). And Alch's Bone can be swapped for Charged Armor for more AoE lulz or a Shieldbraker if you have high armored ennemies.

So many useful items on him, its hard to choose. I rarely get wingbow, but I will get the 25% evasion item on him if I'm having survivability issues. My build is alchemist bones > enhanced marchers > Elder parasite > Geometers Bane > wingbow > riftshards

Most games I will make it to at least geometers bane, a few of them I'll get to wingbow. Have a friend pick plague rider or another babysitter and buy a loggers hatchet, then you should be able to pick up almost every single last hit.

Geometers bane is core on him imo, your illusions bash, and they don't share a cd with your innate bash. With geometers up, and elder parasite up, its almost impossible to lose a 1v1, and that is without your ult.

[dune]

Delete.