Please nerf MAD MAN.

[ArG_0wn3r]

omfg.

[dickyta]

lol.

[nevz]

You're mad man.


I'm so funny I sometimes amaze myself.

[Aldaris]

Madman is a great idea but I think his survivability needs a bit of a nerf. The stalk skill should be replaced with something else. Being able to go invisible get run speed and do dmg is huge concidering barrel roll already lets you get in our out of combat pretty nicely.

[Azariah]

I don't understand why stealth (scout, madman, etc) makes units move faster. It seems to me that balancing the skill would be the opposite: Invisible units move slower.

This is not a call for a nerf. I just find it an interesting game balance decision. I'm a total noob, I've played madman one time - and found it impossible to die. Even if they have a ward or dust to see invis, they can't catch you as you sprint away.

I'm sure it's totally different on a competitive level. People will come here shortly and say "madman is a terrible carry, sure he doesn't die, but he doesn't win the game either". That's probably a valid argument.

[Woolygimp]

\

I'm sure it's totally different on a competitive level. People will come here shortly and say "madman is a terrible carry, sure he doesn't die, but he doesn't win the game either". That's probably a valid argument.

But it's not true. mad man with items can easily kill level 25 farmed heroes in <2 seconds.

[CrowdContro1]

omfg.

agreed. mad man and legenaire make me cry at night.

[Kynth]

We just need a phantom lancer in this game to make you qq about another rigged hero. PL has probably a greater advantage late game vs madman.

[Kry1]

In the current version of HoN, a properly played madman becomes nigh unstoppable very quickly. He is in dire need of a tone down.

[ThatDaxGuy]

I don't understand why stealth (scout, madman, etc) makes units move faster. It seems to me that balancing the skill would be the opposite: Invisible units move slower.


Thats the part that I really don't get. In every other game I've played if you want to move around without being seen/detected, you have to move slower. Invisible and faster? Seems like a strange design choice to me.

[ScottMAstar]

Pretty sure madman is an agil hero, has to farm damage AND a shrunken head in order to be successful without jeriziah. This means if you guys would learn what a nullfire blade is, teach your teamates to use one, and pick stuners and nukers, game would be over and thier madman would be something like 0-20

I think that having both barrel roll and stalk makes him a bit too good.
Weaver is annoying enough with just shukuchi (same as stalk), but madman has barrell roll on top of that. He also has two spells which greatly increase his damage, and the only thing really keeping weaver out of competitive play was his crappy damage (yes he has low hp but a couple of bracers/str treads coupled with his escape mechanism would have sorted that).

[Darkshine1]

Solution: Bring Pestilence.

[TLSHadow]

In the current version of HoN, a properly played madman becomes nigh unstoppable very quickly. He is in dire need of a tone down.

So is every other hero in the game. Wanna 1v1? You can be Madman, I'll random. Or, we can 5v5, I'll grab 5 friends, you can have every invisible hero in the game if you want.

[MuraMasa1]

I agree. Madman is a lil OP. Not only can he farm freely without dying ever but he doesn't need any high level items to dominate. Get madman a abyss skull and a basher with some steam boots and it's a wrap, noone is going to stop him. Every single day madman is the only hero I see constantly dominating games. Pretty much which ever team picks madman will win if the player is even half way decent.

Gank early? sure we try but he just gets away and once he gets those 3 noob items it's a wrap. I hate madman with a passion, I almost hate him enough to quit the game. Why the hell he need critical skill anyway? that has to be my biggest problem with him. Delete the crit strike

[Asrai]

I'll completely agree with the call to nerf Madman. I'd even go as far as saying recall and work on him or hotfix an ability to veto that hero - I don't know his abilities as I haven't played him (I also flat out refuse to play him out of protest), but at higher levels, i have never seen a hero lose to him one on one.
Right now he's just one of those heroes that people who don't really care about testing the game play so they can have fun ganking and boost their score. It's really discouraging on both casual and testing play to encounter him in almost every match.

[Hibi1]

He doesn't need a nerf at all. In any higher level of play he's actually not as good as people think he is. I really hope S2 does not listen to whiners like you who know so little. Seriously, he's not that good..

[FiNGERS]

He doesn't need a nerf at all. In any higher level of play he's actually not as good as people think he is. I really hope S2 does not listen to whiners like you who know so little. Seriously, he's not that good..

I can guarantee Madman is going to be nerfed, or at least re-balanced.

[_Archangel_]

He doesn't need a nerf at all. In any higher level of play he's actually not as good as people think he is. I really hope S2 does not listen to whiners like you who know so little. Seriously, he's not that good.

Admittedly he's not as OMG HE SOLO OUR WHOLE TEAM IMBA NERF PLEASE as most people make him out to be, in a competitive level he'd actually have a niche much like the one Morphling fills in DotA. Two escape mechanisms - pseudoblink with AoE damage/slow added on; damaging windwalk with low cooldown; innate crit and steroid. I'd say if he was added into DotA, he'd be very viable in a lane with Warlock.

[FiNGERS]

Admittedly he's not as OMG HE SOLO OUR WHOLE TEAM IMBA NERF PLEASE as most people make him out to be, in a competitive level he'd actually have a niche much like the one Morphling fills in DotA. Two escape mechanisms - pseudoblink with AoE damage/slow added on; damaging windwalk with low cooldown; innate crit and steroid. I'd say if he was added into DotA, he'd be very viable in a lane with Warlock.

This post about summed up why he's a lil out of whack at the moment. He can stealth(not to mention 522ms), and has a short-range blink. Both of these double as escape mechanisms. Now he has innate crit and IAS. All you need to stack is +dmg and +hp and you win the game. This hero needs some of his skills re-worked. Take away the crit and give him something useless and I'd be happy.

[Bosen]

i love him, because i love it to win... with him, its easy....

he needs to get nerfed, thats fact...

[Karmashock]

I now make a point of getting barbed armor when I face units like mad man... It effectively nullifies the life stealing he always gets and then some. His life steal only absorbs 25 percent damage... the barbed armor returns 100 percent of his own damage back at him.


In addition, it always helps if you just kill him often.

The problem with pub games is that there is very poor team work. People need to come together at some point and say "ok, we NEED to gank X"... and then do it. It's very easy to do this in pub games if you know how to talk to people.

You just need to explain what is going on. So your whole team disapears off the line... the enemy will notice but will be too interested in farming and will probably figure 1/3 chance it's me... and even if it is there's always a chance to get away... so better to stay here and farm.

That's when the gank comes. Come at them from all sides with the disables and fast units attacking from their very escape route. It's usually best to pick the top or bottom because there are two heroes there to gank at the same time. But it's up to you. You may be able to gank the next lane over if they're getting greedy. Same strategy... Come at them from all sides with the disables and carries attacking from their direction of escape. it's important that no one reveal themselves until the hammer drops. At that point whatever is left of the enemy team should be hiding or something. This is when you take a tower and then either farm or heal/buy things for yourself.

[Bianary]

I now make a point of getting barbed armor when I face units like mad man... It effectively nullifies the life stealing he always gets and then some. His life steal only absorbs 25 percent damage... the barbed armor returns 100 percent of his own damage back at him.

In addition, it always helps if you just kill him often.
As always, being killable does not mean a character is not too powerful. If it takes too much to kill him it can be a sign of a problem -- and you're describing taking special measures specifically to neutralize this one hero.

[Kry1]

I now make a point of getting barbed armor when I face units like mad man... It effectively nullifies the life stealing he always gets and then some. His life steal only absorbs 25 percent damage... the barbed armor returns 100 percent of his own damage back at him.


In addition, it always helps if you just kill him often.

The problem with pub games is that there is very poor team work. People need to come together at some point and say "ok, we NEED to gank X"... and then do it. It's very easy to do this in pub games if you know how to talk to people.

You just need to explain what is going on. So your whole team disapears off the line... the enemy will notice but will be too interested in farming and will probably figure 1/3 chance it's me... and even if it is there's always a chance to get away... so better to stay here and farm.

That's when the gank comes. Come at them from all sides with the disables and fast units attacking from their very escape route. It's usually best to pick the top or bottom because there are two heroes there to gank at the same time. But it's up to you. You may be able to gank the next lane over if they're getting greedy. Same strategy... Come at them from all sides with the disables and carries attacking from their direction of escape. it's important that no one reveal themselves until the hammer drops. At that point whatever is left of the enemy team should be hiding or something. This is when you take a tower and then either farm or heal/buy things for yourself.

Goooood suggestion, man. This hero isn't overpowered because we can gank him 5v1.

Not even counting other stuff like: what the other four people on madman's team are doing, if they have wards, or even if the madman can still escape your gank.

[MuraMasa1]

I now make a point of getting barbed armor when I face units like mad man... It effectively nullifies the life stealing he always gets and then some. His life steal only absorbs 25 percent damage... the barbed armor returns 100 percent of his own damage back at him.


In addition, it always helps if you just kill him often.

The problem with pub games is that there is very poor team work. People need to come together at some point and say "ok, we NEED to gank X"... and then do it. It's very easy to do this in pub games if you know how to talk to people.

You just need to explain what is going on. So your whole team disapears off the line... the enemy will notice but will be too interested in farming and will probably figure 1/3 chance it's me... and even if it is there's always a chance to get away... so better to stay here and farm.

That's when the gank comes. Come at them from all sides with the disables and fast units attacking from their very escape route. It's usually best to pick the top or bottom because there are two heroes there to gank at the same time. But it's up to you. You may be able to gank the next lane over if they're getting greedy. Same strategy... Come at them from all sides with the disables and carries attacking from their direction of escape. it's important that no one reveal themselves until the hammer drops. At that point whatever is left of the enemy team should be hiding or something. This is when you take a tower and then either farm or heal/buy things for yourself.


the barbed armor sounds like a good idea but stopping madman is not as simple as "ganking" him. He can easily escape ganks and thats part of the problem. Even with dust and wards you can't keep up with him.

[PRAG1]

mad man turns over only if u let him farm or feed.
if u have an pestilence and 2 "mages" with AOE.. bye bye scout and mad man.

[MuraMasa1]

mad man turns over only if u let him farm or feed.
if u have an pestilence and 2 "mages" with AOE.. bye bye scout and mad man.


Madman doesn't need expensive items to own. Abysll skull + basher + steamboots = GG

who can't farm that?

[Dark0ne]

Pubbies starting to learn that team work might actually be necessary in a team game ITT. Game balancing isn't about whether every hero has an equal chance in a 1v1 fight on a level farm, it's about providing counters to the buffs of other heroes. What counters Madman? Sheep sticks, nullifiers, purge, wards, stuns, stuns, stuns and heavy nukers, among others.

You might actually have to change your favourite hero choice/uber DPS item build to counter heroes on the other team. Get used to it.

[DarkSupremo]

This hero really need be nerfed...

Where one hero have this skill: inv with dmg and 522 mov speed and aoe dmg, blink with aoe dmg and slow, 38% 2x critical, ultimate with atk speed 120% and 8% mov speed....

Madman is really overpower... and ruin games...
this hero need a stronger nerf or banned from the game...

[tayuku]

A lot of the time, I've seen Tree, Scout, and Madman all on the same team. Yes, this means literally the entire map is warded with permanent wards/trees. There is nothing you can do against this because Madman can see ganks miles away. Madman will just farm perhaps a Runed Axe and Abyssal Skull and that's all he needs to win the game.

What I am saying is that some wards on the Madman team will make sure that he will never be ganked and therefore he will be unstoppable.

[TuT1]

This post about summed up why he's a lil out of whack at the moment. He can stealth(not to mention 522ms), and has a short-range blink. Both of these double as escape mechanisms. Now he has innate crit and IAS. All you need to stack is +dmg and +hp and you win the game. This hero needs some of his skills re-worked. Take away the crit and give him something useless and I'd be happy.

rework him with useless skills to make you happy. LOL.

[McBain]

Imagine a hero was implemented with a global blink on a 5 second cooldown, +200% attack speed passive, 95% evasion and 20% chance for 5x crit. This hero would be considered overpowered.

But wait; you can kill him simply by buying silence and using disables/nukes! Therefore he is not overpowered.

This is very flawed logic.

Just because it's possible to kill a hero doesn't mean it isn't overpowered... 2 amazing escape mechanisms (with damage and slow) and huge crit with steroid skill. Yep, Madman needs a nerf.

[Dustbin]

Just needs barrel roll to not slow, it's kinda like fighting War beast in perma ulti, with a berserk, slow and stealth.

[Dark0ne]

Actually with 95% evasion you couldn't kill him, ergo it would actually be overpowered. However, that hero doesn't exist. What does exist is a hero that the pubbies whine about because they don't work together, and the team players LOL about because the pubbies play him thinking he's the be-all and end-all and then get WTFowned by people who make counter picks. A bit like what's happening to all the Scout nubs right now.

To be fair Pestilence is one of the best picks in AP right now due to the amount of people focusing on stealth heroes. Just pick him off the bat and you're in for a GG.

[Kry1]

Actually with 95% evasion you couldn't kill him, ergo it would actually be overpowered. However, that hero doesn't exist. What does exist is a hero that the pubbies whine about because they don't work together, and the team players LOL about because the pubbies play him thinking he's the be-all and end-all and then get WTFowned by people who make counter picks. A bit like what's happening to all the Scout nubs right now.

This is true of the Scout.

This is not true of the Madman.

[Mearcliff]

I think he needs a buff, he's too weak.

[Thotor]

the barbed armor sounds like a good idea but stopping madman is not as simple as "ganking" him. He can easily escape ganks and thats part of the problem. Even with dust and wards you can't keep up with him.
Stun/disable -> dead ?
I dunno, doesn't sound hard.

Madman is troublesome when people has feeded him (especially in pubs game) and that he is not alone.

[jaibas]

if you are laning against madman, simply harrass him to death, and deny his precious farming needs. He is VERY weak early game, and any range hero can keep him on its toes for at least the whole early game if played right.

The problem is that on PUB games, if you let him start getting cash and xp early on, once he gets to around lvl 11 - with abyssal skull and steamboots, he is one of the best gankers on the game.

I would like say that he is overpowered, because on games when I (Yes, I played madman some games to test it out) was able to freely feed, was tearing the other team apart 3v1. however, the times when I was getting denied, harrassed by range and ganked on early game, I was left as a very weak wannabe ganker ni mid and late game.

Madman, and scout, dont need a nerf, they are fine, because they have one of the weakest early games ever. and early game loss = QQ

[Sunforger]

To all people that suggest Barbed Armor (Blademail) - have you tried it? I tried - it does not help. I was a Defiler with around 2k hp (bloodstone+extra vitality booster). I activated it and Madman focused me in each big fight. I died in a blink of eye and he was not hurt at all - probably it is bugged or get trumped by magic immunity (madman often had repel on him). Who wants to test this in more details, please PM me in game.


Madman, and scout, dont need a nerf, they are fine, because they have one of the weakest early games ever. and early game loss = QQYou are wrong, both these heroes are OK in early game with a support hero in lane. However Scout is weak lategame and has only one unreliable escape, so he is fine. Madman is a bit overpowered.

Yes, in a competitive match you will usually have a strong lane and at least one ganker to keep Madman unfarmed.
I agree that he is not BAHROKHEN!1!eleventy!!, but most HoN games will always be played on a pub or semi-pub level where this hero ruins player's experience.

[Jofarin]

I would like say that he is overpowered, because on games when I (Yes, I played madman some games to test it out) was able to freely feed, was tearing the other team apart 3v1. however, the times when I was getting denied, harrassed by range and ganked on early game, I was left as a very weak wannabe ganker ni mid and late game.
What about other (melee) heroes? Do they rule in mid and late game, if they get denied and harrassed in early game? I don't think so...
So we have one hero that is sucky in late game if denied in early game and rules 3:1 in late game if not and one hero that is sucky in late game if denied in early game and rules (or worse) 1:1 in late game...now tell me, wich one is OP? ^^

[MrWizard]

pestilence...archana... take your pick

[Fest1]

Honestly, all they need to do is make it so Barrel Roll requires a target and nerf the crit chance ability by 3 per level.

[GotPho1]

I played about 2 games with someone being Madman, 1 game he went 21-1 and the other game he got around 16-2. Bashers with madman with some lifesteal = GG.

NERF PLEASE!

[PDV_Zilla]

The problem with this hero is that the other carries i.e. Chronos (Void counterpart) are nerfed. Bash (skill) with 2sec cooldown is just goddamn stupid. The same occurs with Pestilence (Slardar), at least its skill to debuff the enemies armor compensate this issue.

[dYe]

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