View Full Version : BanDraft and Competative Play
I'm new to the competitive HoN/DotA scene and was curious to know if Ban Draft will even be used in competitive HoN matches.
I have watched my fair share of DotA games with Captains Mode enabled and noticed that its 4bans per team?? and 5 picks, obviously.
The thing about Ban Draft though is that the heroes you are allowed to select are RANDOM, but it's not only that, you can also only allowed to ban 2 heroes per team (makes more sense because the hero pick isn't as large).
Anyways, I was just curious to know if we'll be seeing Ban Draft games in upcoming HoN matches or if they'll just do their own banning/picking in the lobby like usual.
Darkstrand
10-26-2009, 06:57 PM
Maybe in pickup leagues for a single player looking for a game, like HoN League.
But in scrims or tournaments? Not a chance.
Fenald
10-26-2009, 06:58 PM
I have no idea why it takes them so long to add mirror mode and captains mode :\.
I have no idea why it takes them so long to add mirror mode and captains mode :\.
I honestly thought they would have released a CM just like DotA before some game mode like BD.
HellFire69
10-26-2009, 07:34 PM
BanDraft in competitive play would add a degree of luck to the banning/picking process and take away a lot of the strategy. Having a randomized pool could potentially give one team a large advantage over the other team and reduce the chances of strategy and skill determining the winner. However, I agree with Darkstrand that BD is a good mode for semi-competitive play such as in houses and pick up games.
PS: GIVE US -CM MODE S2... WHAT'S THE HOLD UP?!
Darkstrand
10-26-2009, 07:36 PM
BanDraft in competitive play would add a degree of luck to the banning/picking process and take away a lot of the strategy. Having a randomized pool could potentially give one team a large advantage over the other team and reduce the chances of strategy and skill determining the winner. However, I agree with Darkstrand that BD is a good mode for semi-competitive play such as in houses and pick up games.
PS: GIVE US -CM MODE S2... WHAT'S THE HOLD UP?!
He only agrees with me, cuz I pay him to.
Albiore
10-27-2009, 09:23 AM
I have a large community of friends who play HoN together. I've found that the random hero selection part of the ban draft is what's killing it. We got a 3v3 game going, and we got our bans out etc, and one of the opposing players chose Magebane, leaving us with no heroes to counter him whatsoever. This made the game pre-determined, and as we expected, we got stomped. And it wasn't like we were out-skilled, we had the more skilled team out of the 6.
Where am I going with this? I'm not saying this to whine in the thread that I lost when I shouldn't have. I just think that it would be better to have the banning draft option with maybe an All Pick mode as well.
frozenose
10-27-2009, 09:49 AM
I have a large community of friends who play HoN together. I've found that the random hero selection part of the ban draft is what's killing it. We got a 3v3 game going, and we got our bans out etc, and one of the opposing players chose Magebane, leaving us with no heroes to counter him whatsoever. This made the game pre-determined, and as we expected, we got stomped. And it wasn't like we were out-skilled, we had the more skilled team out of the 6.
Where am I going with this? I'm not saying this to whine in the thread that I lost when I shouldn't have. I just think that it would be better to have the banning draft option with maybe an All Pick mode as well.
Which hero is a hard counter to Magebane? Sheepstick and early ganks/harass on him are the best counters I know.
Glorify1
10-27-2009, 10:10 AM
BanDraft in competitive play would add a degree of luck to the banning/picking process and take away a lot of the strategy. Having a randomized pool could potentially give one team a large advantage over the other team and reduce the chances of strategy and skill determining the winner. However, I agree with Darkstrand that BD is a good mode for semi-competitive play such as in houses and pick up games.
PS: GIVE US -CM MODE S2... WHAT'S THE HOLD UP?!
Then again this is a game that is heavily based on luck. Luck isn't bad, it forces teams to adapt to certain lineups and heroes that would normally never see the light of day.
BloodyJester
10-27-2009, 10:48 AM
I think BD champ gonna be amazing, i disagree about lucky, i think its need more strategy to make a good team, cause u dont ever know what coming and have limited time to think.
Freki
10-27-2009, 11:09 AM
I agree I'm fed up of the same line up, which varries only by 2 o 3 heroes from a game to another...
Juergel
10-27-2009, 11:41 AM
Competitive teams wait for CM. Even in lower skill lvls we don't use BD for scrims.
jay`t
10-27-2009, 11:44 AM
Then again this is a game that is heavily based on luck. Luck isn't bad, it forces teams to adapt to certain lineups and heroes that would normally never see the light of day.
i think you hit the nail on the head in regards to bandraft, but what people are going to ask is "is this a good thing?"
i personally think it is
You guys really don't understand how it's coded, so you shouldn't be pressuring S2 so damn much for Captains Mode. Let them get to it when they get to it, like every other awesome thing they do.
Give them time and let them do it right. No need to put extra pressure on them.
f4nt0m
10-27-2009, 01:09 PM
BD is just RD with bans. They can't allow for 4 bans either side because it's only 24 heroes on screen. 8 bans would result in 16 heroes hence only 6 unpicked. CM is really needed... :( Too high a degree of random with BD.
Although I haven't bene involed in the competitive scene I assume there is a CM of some sort where both teams get to ban and then pick their heroes pre-game. Hence why it should be implemented.
`Cherry`
10-27-2009, 01:51 PM
I have no idea why it takes them so long to add mirror mode and captains mode :\.
MIRROR MODE ?!?!
Kitteh WANTS.
TLSHadow
10-27-2009, 01:55 PM
You guys really don't understand how it's coded, so you shouldn't be pressuring S2 so damn much for Captains Mode. Let them get to it when they get to it, like every other awesome thing they do.
Give them time and let them do it right. No need to put extra pressure on them.
Coding a C++ alternating eliminating path is one of the simplest scripts of all time, do YOU understand how it's coded??
mordentral
10-27-2009, 03:02 PM
Coding a C++ alternating eliminating path is one of the simplest scripts of all time, do YOU understand how it's coded??
> C++
> Scripts
:mad:
zhatan
10-27-2009, 05:42 PM
BD is a fun mode, not really competative but its definently decent enough for inhouses. Makes for some teambuilding and ban-training.
> C++
> Scripts
:mad:
this, touche
Flat_Head
10-28-2009, 03:30 PM
bandraft is my favorite mode right now, I'll go so far as to say it's the best mode for the higher skilled end of casual play. You can't get ****ed by the pool as much as in SD and it definitely allows more strategizing than RD.
DrOoo
10-29-2009, 05:01 PM
If you put Banning Draft and All Heroes shouldn't you get something very close to CM?
softcactus
10-29-2009, 11:25 PM
The only problem with CM is you see a lot of identical teams and picks over and over.
Kveita
10-31-2009, 08:55 AM
-CM I miss u =(
r00kie
11-05-2009, 10:35 AM
I have a large community of friends who play HoN together. I've found that the random hero selection part of the ban draft is what's killing it. We got a 3v3 game going, and we got our bans out etc, and one of the opposing players chose Magebane, leaving us with no heroes to counter him whatsoever. This made the game pre-determined, and as we expected, we got stomped. And it wasn't like we were out-skilled, we had the more skilled team out of the 6.
Where am I going with this? I'm not saying this to whine in the thread that I lost when I shouldn't have. I just think that it would be better to have the banning draft option with maybe an All Pick mode as well.
BD isnt your problem, playing 3v3 is !
I think that BD is not as bad as you think, CM you play over and over the same old combos, everyone is satisfied because they got their own little hero that they know well, BD develops your creativity, your strategy, etc.
I think it's a mode that gives more taste to the game & more interesting matchups. Stop staying in your DOTA bubble, pop it, get out of your cave and see the light
BD isnt your problem, playing 3v3 is !
I think that BD is not as bad as you think, CM you play over and over the same old combos, everyone is satisfied because they got their own little hero that they know well, BD develops your creativity, your strategy, etc.
I think it's a mode that gives more taste to the game & more interesting matchups. Stop staying in your DOTA bubble, pop it, get out of your cave and see the light
This^
Extreme_Cake
11-05-2009, 12:53 PM
Another thing about the simplicity of eliminating scripts: Even if they were incredibly complex, you could just copy the one from BD onto AP.
AnthraxGod
11-05-2009, 01:46 PM
while i agree that BD is not effective for clan play and touneys because of the luck factor of random pools. I need to point out that i dont think that competitive play should be the same as we have seen in dota with the same teams being picked over and over and over and the same bans being handed out to certain heroes all the time. well the banning wont change on some heroes but i think the random pool will add more of a skill factor to the tournement seen forcing teams to pull teams from those pools and not have hours of planning before hand to try and pick the teams consisting of the heroes they practice for hours on end.
BigGeoffrey
11-05-2009, 07:17 PM
while i agree that BD is not effective for clan play and touneys because of the luck factor of random pools. I need to point out that i dont think that competitive play should be the same as we have seen in dota with the same teams being picked over and over and over and the same bans being handed out to certain heroes all the time. well the banning wont change on some heroes but i think the random pool will add more of a skill factor to the tournement seen forcing teams to pull teams from those pools and not have hours of planning before hand to try and pick the teams consisting of the heroes they practice for hours on end.
competitve play is best when its started on the most even possible base.
In Captains mode its not as if you get the same heroes on your team every game. Maybe the same heroes in each game, so its not as if its just a A vs B game, where the -A- Heroes always beat the -B- heroes. Captains mode allows for a more conclusive counter pick and more strategy... Things which if were lacking, would make this game a joke, competitively.
Edward
11-07-2009, 11:39 AM
You guys really don't understand how it's coded, so you shouldn't be pressuring S2 so damn much for Captains Mode. Let them get to it when they get to it, like every other awesome thing they do.
Well, they obviously can program bans and alternate picks, so I really don't see what's the problem... Also, who cares about the new heroes? The only hero we NEEDED was Silencer/Vindicator... Rampage is a pub hero that took a lot of their time and Lion is just meh...