Troubles maintaining levels with Pharaoh

[Bigrnblackr]

Hey, I have the hardest time keeping on par with levels if I don't have a solo lane to start with. Any tips for playing side lanes and keeping up?

I do "ok" but when I get a solo lane it's just so much better but it's rare.


Also, I'm doubting some of the guides as I've tried various builds with him and just find him to be a bit squishy in most of them for a ganker/init type hero.
Interested in knowing any tips to playing him you got.

[PrestonLee]

gank constantly with your team whenever you have ulti so you're keeping up in levels instead of afk-farming and getting underleveled. If you're nailing your ulti with decent teammates it should be guaranteed kills every time, and that will keep you up in levels and farm with everyone else.

The problem is it's pretty hard to get some decent team coordination in the 1500's though, so Pharoah isn't always going to be the strongest pick in that bracket if your teammates are horrible. You could always rush Puzzlebox first item though and stomp with that :p

[Bigrnblackr]

Yeah, one of the big factors I notice is sometimes I'll ulti in and put myself out there only to watch the people I was setting the gank for run off... I'm thinking picking the wrong times to gank are the big factor.

Also, do you guys use mummy wall a lot of just in solo ganks or something because I'm finding it's not always a wise choice and seems a bit more situational.

[X2RocKStaR3X]

pharoah is one of my favorite heroes I play constintly on my main account. Pretty much at lvl 6 you should be roaming and the enemy should always be thinking you're behind that tree about to ult. Just keep communication with your teammates and make sure they know when to go and not.
As far as your question about the mummies it's his bread and butter (other than his ult). First start lvl 1 with your snipe for last hitting and "scouting", get 1 in mummies, and max hellfire, of course take ult at 6. Roam, set up a gank ult>mummies>hellfire> have teammates beat them down, and snipe if they try to run.
Core items are pretty much steamboots, helm of the black legion, and shamans headress. Just keep in mind your usually the one in first and in team fights they're gonna see you first and your gonna be taking a lot of dps. After that build whatever you want depending on your farm and situations. (try a sols bulwark, and shieldbreaker..., fun for pubstomping).

[parrellz0r]

get 1 in mummies, and max hellfire, of course take ult at 6.

Yay good advice!

[Bigrnblackr]

I will check that out later tonight.

I normally maxed the range nuke and harassed the **** out of people with it. So I would max e then q picking up mummies somewhere in 1-4.

I'll give that a go.

Thanks for the tips so far :) more are welcome.

[Connect]

Almost whatever you do, you should get Puzzlebox too. It's just so damn good on this guy!

[lemonface]

get 1 in mummies, and max hellfire, of course take ult at 6.

this. you dont need additional levels in mummies AT ALL. 1 pt mummies, after prioritise hellflower, after prioritise rocket, ult whenever possible. if you are doing good and have decent gear get mummies later on, if not get stats over additional mummy levels.

[PrestonLee]

this. you dont need additional levels in mummies AT ALL. 1 pt mummies, after prioritise hellflower, after prioritise rocket, ult whenever possible. if you are doing good and have decent gear get mummies later on, if not get stats over additional mummy levels.I don't know about that one, I don't know how many funny kills I've gotten from people just running into a mummy wall and dying :p the mana drain is also huge earlier/mid game and can really f up a gank/save attempt and can be used offensively as well.

I'd never max it over hellfire or nuke first, but I definitely think mummy are worth maxing :p just my opinion though

[Bigrnblackr]

Any other tips or advice out there?

Not to knock the guys above but some of them are lower then me in rating or negative mmr on pharaoh, so I'm looking for any advice.

Granted to the above posters I'm greatful and I'm actually just about to give it a go. Also, sometimes things are a bit out of your control in games so I understand that. Please don't take what I said as a insult.

:)

Thanks!

[Lethe]

I only ever take one in mummies early too, however the nuke vs. hellfire debate is situational.

If you have more opportunities to isolate an enemy hellfire does an obscene amount of damage.

[Bigrnblackr]

Almost every guide out there recommends going for steam, but from what I understand if you plan to gank then you go for marchers.... I would also think marchers would help with keeping hellfire on them.

Any words on this?

[Lethe]

Pharaoh's strong skills are offset by his poor stat gain, so I prefer steamboots.

Hellfire is meant to be comboed with cogs anyway. Ghost Marchers has pretty poor synergy with Pharaoh, other then what you mentioned (which is irrelevant if the enemy is trapped).

[Bigrnblackr]

Makes sense.

Do you rush for the bc to maintain mana as I find this to be another weakness exp when using combo's early.

If you have won what would a typical starting setup look like for your phar games?

[Lethe]

Pharaoh's stat gains are low but his mana costs are low.

I got BC on Pharoah when it was imbalanced as @#$%, nowadays I find bottle sufficient no matter which lane you are in.

I try to avoid hotbl early unless it is obvious I will absolutely need it, because I prefer an earlier pbox.

So my early-game build usually looks like bottle+steamboots, and then building for pbox.

Pharaoh doesn't eat up mana that quickly early game even with the mana cost nerf on tormented soul. Hellfire is a straight-up killing spell, so if you take more levels in it earlier, you should only be using it when going for the kill.

[Bigrnblackr]

So your first buy is just right to the bottle?

[Lethe]

no obviously I do standard starting builds that vary from player to player.

[X2RocKStaR3X]

I soloed qued with pharoah from 1500 mmr to 1850 on a smurf, but honestly he is a pretty simple hero thats SO fun. For serious build I do steamboots, marchers are good for ganking but that extra health is a lot of help. Besides you're already a beast at ganking. http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroesguide_view.php?gid=57781 This guy pretty much builds him like me besides a few situation items missing, and maxing stats over mummies (again situational). Just mess around and you'll get it. Happy ganking.

[Bigrnblackr]

cool thanks guys.

What missing items where you talking about X?

[Schi_Town]

Always do 1 level in the nuke and 1 level in walls. Now, the question is whether or not to max hellfire or the nuke first. If you are solo against a melee, always max hellfire. This skill is great for harassing other melees, as you have higher than average run speed. If you have a lane partner, you will still generally want to max hellfire. However, there have been times where I'm playing with an aluna or some other hero with strong early game nukes and I max tormented soul. With two strong nukes, it can be possible to harass softer heroes out of the lane. This is often the approach I take if I'm just trying to prevent a hard carry from getting too much farm.

In terms of items, some sort of mana-regen is necessary due to the high cost of your ultimate, but I wouldn't suggest a bottle unless you are mid. Blood chalice is usually the best choice. For boots, steamboots are pretty much your only option. Afterwards, I usually prefer to go either hotbl or shaman's depending on how much magical/physical damage I'm taking. Barbed armor is effective in lower rank games, as people just don't pay attention, but I don't pick up too often anymore. Although you can wall people in, you can't force them to attack you. And even if they are attacking you, that probably means they are ignoring some higher-priority target, as you can't pull off many solo ganks with pharoh unless over-leveled/over-farmed.

When ganking, you will probably need a teammate unless they are low on health. Hellfire can dish out a lot of damage, but only if you are next to your opponenet, and lvl 1 mummies don't last too long.

[Bigrnblackr]

Always do 1 level in the nuke and 1 level in walls. Now, the question is whether or not to max hellfire or the nuke first. If you are solo against a melee, always max hellfire. This skill is great for harassing other melees, as you have higher than average run speed. If you have a lane partner, you will still generally want to max hellfire. However, there have been times where I'm playing with an aluna or some other hero with strong early game nukes and I max tormented soul. With two strong nukes, it can be possible to harass softer heroes out of the lane. This is often the approach I take if I'm just trying to prevent a hard carry from getting too much farm.

In terms of items, some sort of mana-regen is necessary due to the high cost of your ultimate, but I wouldn't suggest a bottle unless you are mid. Blood chalice is usually the best choice. For boots, steamboots are pretty much your only option. Afterwards, I usually prefer to go either hotbl or shaman's depending on how much magical/physical damage I'm taking. Barbed armor is effective in lower rank games, as people just don't pay attention, but I don't pick up too often anymore. Although you can wall people in, you can't force them to attack you. And even if they are attacking you, that probably means they are ignoring some higher-priority target, as you can't pull off many solo ganks with pharoh unless over-leveled/over-farmed.

When ganking, you will probably need a teammate unless they are low on health. Hellfire can dish out a lot of damage, but only if you are next to your opponenet, and lvl 1 mummies don't last too long.

That's solid info Schi. A lot of the things you've stated I've started to notice on him.

I've been playing with it a bit and a few games I decided to skip the hotbl. It's a great item if you are doing really well but I decided to push for the 1k health, vest and build armor once I hit that point. It's been working well after that I decide how to go.

I like Phar a lot but he seems to really be based on your team. I've had like 1 glorious game where I just carried it hard as hell. I seldom get solo lanes though bouncing around high 14's - 15's.

[Farosarg]

I disagree with the Steamboots pick. Sure they are the top choice if you aren't going for Helm of the Black Legion but if you do pick up helm, I definately prefer Ghosts for the chasing and making sure that I can move freely within the mummy-wall. Try to find easy kills whenever the ultimate is off cooldown and preferably have someone in the team back you up with the kills and if they support you with good vision around the map, that's even better.

Pharaoh's role varies so much depending on the game so smart play is always required from him. Puzzlebox is one of the best items you can pick up as he doesn't necessarily need much more tankiness than what he gets from base and a few basic items. I do however consider Shrunken Head as one of the best situational items for him. Sure he isn't supposed to carry anything but being able to move about in a teamfight, placing those walls and keeping hellfire on key heroes can be devastating. Or if you are playing against someone like Torturer, popping that shrunken head will keep you alive that much stronger and Torturer that much more unable to do anything.

[Bigrnblackr]

I disagree with the Steamboots pick. Sure they are the top choice if you aren't going for Helm of the Black Legion but if you do pick up helm, I definately prefer Ghosts for the chasing and making sure that I can move freely within the mummy-wall. Try to find easy kills whenever the ultimate is off cooldown and preferably have someone in the team back you up with the kills and if they support you with good vision around the map, that's even better.

Pharaoh's role varies so much depending on the game so smart play is always required from him. Puzzlebox is one of the best items you can pick up as he doesn't necessarily need much more tankiness than what he gets from base and a few basic items. I do however consider Shrunken Head as one of the best situational items for him. Sure he isn't supposed to carry anything but being able to move about in a teamfight, placing those walls and keeping hellfire on key heroes can be devastating. Or if you are playing against someone like Torturer, popping that shrunken head will keep you alive that much stronger and Torturer that much more unable to do anything.

I just got out of a game where I had mid, unexpectedly mind you. Built none tank until I had bc, steam, then I started the pb. Built it up to level 3 and got some armor in between to build into the barbed. Needless to say I did really well with this, sadly my team where tards and a hour long game we should have won ended up being a defeat lol. GGGGGGGG :)

Anyway thanks for all the tips guys. The game before that I didn't get any kills but all of my init and ganks turned up to feed my mates and we won that with a solid lead. Winning is winning :)

[Lethe]

Pharaoh is for sure a 'play to win' hero.

Don't play him if you just want to buff your KDR. That's what Fayde is for.

[Farosarg]

Pharaoh is for sure a 'play to win' hero.

Don't play him if you just want to buff your KDR. That's what Fayde is for.

This. So much this. Especially with uncoordinated teams you can really just expect to die when you initiate and if you didn't get the kills from ganks in early game, you most certainly won't be seeing them now either unless you manage to snipe some good Tormented Souls on fleeing opponents. Even though you die in every teamfight you initiate, chances are that your team will clean up and win thanks to your Pharaoh play.

[Bigrnblackr]

Yeah it worked well.
I keep hitting this wall these past few days of win/lose win/lose lol damn mmr

[Epidemilk]

This. So much this. Especially with uncoordinated teams you can really just expect to die when you initiate


SO true. Even this one time some people were being chased by three, ulti for a quick stun on those three (yeah they were close enough together).... do my teammates turn around and do anything? Of course not, they were locked into "run like a *****" mode. Probably just clicked the pool and tabbed out to chase their facebook or something. !BASTARDOS!

[Bigrnblackr]

haha yeah man I feel you.

It's all good though. I've recently found a couple guys who play together and it's been going well. Just shy 1600 again with just a few games.

Hopefully that continues :D

[commy]

Pharoah has a super flexible item build. Even things like stormspirit and codec aren't completely out of the question. Not necessarily optimAl, but not plain bad either.

[Schi_Town]

I feel like pharaoh just doesn't work well in certain line ups or against certain heroes. Blinks are always annoying, and other heroes like kracken, magmus, and and monkey king can easily get around your walls with short CD skills. Also, it's annoying to play against heroes like zephyr or tort considering they make you think a lot more carefully before walling. Of course, this also goes both ways. You just need to think about which heroes are on your team, and which ones are on your enemies. This is why I don't usually first pick pharaoh.

[PrestonLee]

so true. Even this one time some people were being chased by three, ulti for a quick stun on those three (yeah they were close enough together).... Do my teammates turn around and do anything? Of course not, they were locked into "run like a *****" mode. Probably just clicked the pool and tabbed out to chase their facebook or something. !bastardos!**** noob rambo pharoah kick

[Bigrnblackr]

I feel like pharaoh just doesn't work well in certain line ups or against certain heroes. Blinks are always annoying, and other heroes like kracken, magmus, and and monkey king can easily get around your walls with short CD skills. Also, it's annoying to play against heroes like zephyr or tort considering they make you think a lot more carefully before walling. Of course, this also goes both ways. You just need to think about which heroes are on your team, and which ones are on your enemies. This is why I don't usually first pick pharaoh.


Yeah I stopped doing that well unless I look at the enemy stats and see they have someone who plays him a lot. Even then I'm trying to ride things out a bit more on him. I've had 2 games where they just picked like 3 counters or the above kind of crap. Makes it brutal.

Though I might try the marchers next time I get on of those zephyr types and lock them in and run haha.

[Grogory]

This. So much this. Especially with uncoordinated teams you can really just expect to die when you initiate and if you didn't get the kills from ganks in early game, you most certainly won't be seeing them now either unless you manage to snipe some good Tormented Souls on fleeing opponents. Even though you die in every teamfight you initiate, chances are that your team will clean up and win thanks to your Pharaoh play.

I have a question. So let's go back to the original post which was something about how it is hard to maintain levels on Pharoah if you don't solo lane.

So what I'm understanding from a lot of these posts is that in early teamfights you ult in on the enemy team, CC as many as you can in mummies. (Then drop instantly because you didn't go mid/didn't get a 12 minute hotbl in addition to all the regen you needed).

In like 2 more teamfights you are going to be that lvl 11 Pharoah playing against the lvl 18 :pyro:. Plus how the hell are you supposed to build up farm with this strat. If the guys winning the fight for your team after you die are :andr: and :glac: you've already lost the game.

I am not totally sure so help me clarify. It is never a good idea for pharaoh to ult in/initiate if he is going to drop. It's essentially as useful as a well placed :witc: stun, but that dude doesn't need to die. I'm pretty sure :phar: is best played as a counterinitiator who waits for teamfights to start then jumps on the :flin: and uses Hellfire to kill him or keep him useless while the team is fighting.

The more I think about it Pharoah is a counterinitator to kill or nullify anyone that is most effective fighting around the edges of a team fight or is hard to get to. Stay back and jump on :thun::alun::flin::pupp::pyro::slit::myrm::temp::d eme::mast::fors:, the list goes on.

Basically I don't think you should ever be "suicide ulting" as pharoah.
And unless your farm is really strong or your team has massive AOE burst (:wret::chip:) you should never be ulting in with the intention of TRAPPING ALL DEY PLAYERS WIT UR MUMMIES BRO.

[Bigrnblackr]

I have a question. So let's go back to the original post which was something about how it is hard to maintain levels on Pharoah if you don't solo lane.

So what I'm understanding from a lot of these posts is that in early teamfights you ult in on the enemy team, CC as many as you can in mummies. (Then drop instantly because you didn't go mid/didn't get a 12 minute hotbl in addition to all the regen you needed).

In like 2 more teamfights you are going to be that lvl 11 Pharoah playing against the lvl 18 :pyro:. Plus how the hell are you supposed to build up farm with this strat. If the guys winning the fight for your team after you die are :andr: and :glac: you've already lost the game.

I am not totally sure so help me clarify. It is never a good idea for pharaoh to ult in/initiate if he is going to drop. It's essentially as useful as a well placed :witc: stun, but that dude doesn't need to die. I'm pretty sure :phar: is best played as a counterinitiator who waits for teamfights to start then jumps on the :flin: and uses Hellfire to kill him or keep him useless while the team is fighting.

The more I think about it Pharoah is a counterinitator to kill or nullify anyone that is most effective fighting around the edges of a team fight or is hard to get to. Stay back and jump on :thun::alun::flin::pupp::pyro::slit::myrm::temp::d eme::mast::fors:, the list goes on.

Basically I don't think you should ever be "suicide ulting" as pharoah.
And unless your farm is really strong or your team has massive AOE burst (:wret::chip:) you should never be ulting in with the intention of TRAPPING ALL DEY PLAYERS WIT UR MUMMIES BRO.

I think it's different based off the game and people/hero's playing it.
Some games you can gank solo and be fine and it works out well. I've noticed building the PB does help you destroy kids solo but you have to get to that point.

I've been avoiding the hotbl for the most part unless the game goes very well. It's hit and miss really with Randoms but with people who know what's going on or a team then I've noticed it works damn well.

Mummies still seems situational to me and I've noticed it's not always a go to spell in team fights and again is kind of that think on your toes thing.

I'm getting better on him and maintaining the levels via ganking BUT he's for sure not a every game hero.

[Schi_Town]

I have a question. So let's go back to the original post which was something about how it is hard to maintain levels on Pharoah if you don't solo lane.

So what I'm understanding from a lot of these posts is that in early teamfights you ult in on the enemy team, CC as many as you can in mummies. (Then drop instantly because you didn't go mid/didn't get a 12 minute hotbl in addition to all the regen you needed).

In like 2 more teamfights you are going to be that lvl 11 Pharoah playing against the lvl 18 :pyro:. Plus how the hell are you supposed to build up farm with this strat. If the guys winning the fight for your team after you die are :andr: and :glac: you've already lost the game.

I am not totally sure so help me clarify. It is never a good idea for pharaoh to ult in/initiate if he is going to drop. It's essentially as useful as a well placed :witc: stun, but that dude doesn't need to die. I'm pretty sure :phar: is best played as a counterinitiator who waits for teamfights to start then jumps on the :flin: and uses Hellfire to kill him or keep him useless while the team is fighting.

The more I think about it Pharoah is a counterinitator to kill or nullify anyone that is most effective fighting around the edges of a team fight or is hard to get to. Stay back and jump on :thun::alun::flin::pupp::pyro::slit::myrm::temp::d eme::mast::fors:, the list goes on.

Basically I don't think you should ever be "suicide ulting" as pharoah.
And unless your farm is really strong or your team has massive AOE burst (:wret::chip:) you should never be ulting in with the intention of TRAPPING ALL DEY PLAYERS WIT UR MUMMIES BRO.

For the most part I agree with this. But would I sacrifice myself to kill a farmed :emer:, :arac:, :flin: or :silh:? Yes, in a heart beat. I have definitely had those games where I end up being a few levels behind my team because of this, but to be completely honest I don't think it matters as much as you might think. If you have a team that can capitalize on your initiation, you should go with it. It all just comes down to risk v reward.

[Farosarg]

I have a question. So let's go back to the original post which was something about how it is hard to maintain levels on Pharoah if you don't solo lane.

So what I'm understanding from a lot of these posts is that in early teamfights you ult in on the enemy team, CC as many as you can in mummies. (Then drop instantly because you didn't go mid/didn't get a 12 minute hotbl in addition to all the regen you needed).

In like 2 more teamfights you are going to be that lvl 11 Pharoah playing against the lvl 18 :pyro:. Plus how the hell are you supposed to build up farm with this strat. If the guys winning the fight for your team after you die are :andr: and :glac: you've already lost the game.

I am not totally sure so help me clarify. It is never a good idea for pharaoh to ult in/initiate if he is going to drop. It's essentially as useful as a well placed :witc: stun, but that dude doesn't need to die. I'm pretty sure :phar: is best played as a counterinitiator who waits for teamfights to start then jumps on the :flin: and uses Hellfire to kill him or keep him useless while the team is fighting.

The more I think about it Pharoah is a counterinitator to kill or nullify anyone that is most effective fighting around the edges of a team fight or is hard to get to. Stay back and jump on :thun::alun::flin::pupp::pyro::slit::myrm::temp::d eme::mast::fors:, the list goes on.

Basically I don't think you should ever be "suicide ulting" as pharoah.
And unless your farm is really strong or your team has massive AOE burst (:wret::chip:) you should never be ulting in with the intention of TRAPPING ALL DEY PLAYERS WIT UR MUMMIES BRO.

That's all about positioning. Always try to get to an angle where you can get to the guys that are staying behind so that you can put 2-3 of the enemies between your team and your mummies. That is the ideal initiation you can go for and it will most likely leave you alive as the mummies will completely screw the enemy team over.

And don't ult in when you are in a face-off or similar situation unless you see them out of position or initiating on your team. If you have to, you can give them that mid tower or atleast make it appear that you are going to and when they aren't ready for it, jump in and make sure that they will stay out of position.

Also if you aren't comfortable with how the teamfights are going or would go if you ult in, go for map-control instead. Have your team get vision up, counterward aggressively and use your ult to punish anyone who tries to counterward or goes out of position. Pharaoh is really good at making the opponent feel that they are not safe.