Succubus

[Dyzfunkshun]

Guide current as of Patch Version 2.1.0


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Hero Introduction
Skills & Skill Build
Items & Item Build
Strategy
Hero Matchings and Matchups

Conclusion







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Succubus is a port of the DotA Hero; Bane Elemental. Succubus has seen high level play in HoN since her induction into the game; although has tapered off somewhat in popularity. She is a strong hero during all aspects of the game, and one of a select few heroes in the game that can evolve from one role into another without any deviation in her item/skill build. The aim of this guide is to give both direction to people that may be new to the hero, and food for thought and helpful advice for higher level players.

Pro's:


Versatile hero with several disables, capable of a lot of control during team fights.
Very high average stat gain compared to other intelligence heroes.
Very high starting armor for an intelligence hero (only behind Tempest, Blacksmith and Doctor Repulsor). Making her great for harassment.

Above average Movespeed.
Almost unmatched solo hero with great rune control capabilities.

Superb attack animation and base high damage.

Not reliant on items.
Able to stay in a lane without having to leave it often.
Very strong ganking hero.

Good escape and defense mechanisms.

Con's:


Limited Mana Pool compared to other intelligence heroes.
Only 500 Range Attack (Most Intelligence heroes being 550-600).
In conjunction with having a low Mana Pool, is also quite mana dependent.
As the main disabler of a team, is often shut down and targeted during team fights.
Ultimate requires channeling.
Often an inferior choice for solo exp as she doesn't scale very effectively.







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Smitten
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/105/ability1_128.jpg

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8294/smittenm.jpg

Smitten; aka The Carry Disabler, is your way to shutdown high physical damage units (Example: Pupper Master, Maliken, Flint Beastwood etc.) at level 4 it equates to a massive 120% reduction in damage base damage (damage derived from overall attributes). This will effectively neuter the damage output of the target it is on. It's duration of 20 seconds, and cooldown of 15, means it can overlap and be applied to more than one target at a time (or to refresh on a single target making sure it never drops off). Smitten's manacost prevents it from being spammable, as it will use a decent portion of your mana, but is usually applied as soon as the fight is initiated, to take down their physical carries effectiveness as soon as possible. The range is also huge at 1,000, meaning that almost any unit that you can see, you can hit.

Heartache
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/105/ability2_128.jpg

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4913/heartache.jpg

Range:
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2397/mezrange.jpg

Heartache; aka The Lane Dominater, is your damaging skill and your way to make sure you never have to leave the lane you're in. It has a hefty mana cost, so it hard to use it as a nuke, and is far from spammable (although with Blood Chalice, it is much more so). The biggest perk about this spell is that it deals True Damage, this means the damage taken from this spell is not mitigated by Armor or Magic Armor, so there is no way to reduce the damage taken from it. This makes it especially potent early on, as it will take a HUGE chunk of their hitpoints, and heal you by the same amount, allowing you to keep yourself in a lane without being reliant on Runes of Blight or Pots. Also something of note, is the range is quite large, and quite a lot further than your attack, so even if someone is out of your attack range, you can still nail them.


Mesmerize
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/105/ability3_128.jpg
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9796/mezmerise.jpg

Range:
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8996/mezrange1.jpg

Mesmerize; aka The Multitasker, is your main way of shutting the opposing team down, while also setting up kills and your main escape mechanism (you can also deny yourself with it too!). This skill has a vast variety of applications throughout the entire duration of the game. From the very start it is often used to initiate ganks; locking down your target long enough for your team mates to position themselves, taking a disabler out of the equation, or chasing down a hero that thinks he's gotten away. As the game goes on, this is your main way of shutting down the devastating heroes in your opponents lineups (Example; Behemoth, Bubbles, Magmus) long enough for your team to go to work on the rest of them. As mentioned before, this spell can also be used to deny experience from your opponents; at level 4 this will deal 20 True Damage every second for 7 seconds, meaning you can kill yourself with it at 140hp or less (this is both a blessing, and something to be aware of).


Succubus' Hold
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/105/ability4_128.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4095/succyhold.jpg

Range:
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/40/holdrange.jpg

Succubus' Hold; aka "WHY DOES SHE KEEP TARGETING ME?", is what makes Succubus what she is. This ultimate is absolutely devastating and again scales throughout the game in use. Early on this will net you a kill on virtually any target you choose, basically any partially weakened opponent will fall to Succubus' Hold + Heartache. Later on this ability is used to set up team kills, often taking advantage of any enemy hero that even slightly mispositions themselves. Whoever your team feels is the most threatening and uncontrollable threat on their side, that is what your main target should be. As it is a channeling spell, you must use it carefully and precisely and try and get it's full duration off, there is no point diving into team fights and using this on the person you feel like killing, as you will get stunned and disabled to death and you will have wasted it completely. There is absolutely nothing a hero can do while in the grip of this spell, and it must be taken advantage of.


:StaffOfTheMaster: Staff of the Master :StaffOfTheMaster:

Unfortunately for Succubus all the Staff of the Master does for Succubus' Hold is increase the damage per tick. While it may seem like something worth getting (and I see this a LOT with people that aren't experienced with this hero). I urge you; DO NOT GET STAFF OF THE MASTER ON SUCCUBUS, EVER (Ever ever ever). Damage is not what this spell is about, and getting this item is actually completely counter-intuitive as the only time when it's damage aspect is particularly relevant is laning at the start of the game, at the point in the game when you have actually obtained the staff, the disable is what is relevant, allowing your team to get the kills, not you, thus making the staff obsolete. There is never a situation where another item is not a better choice.






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The great thing about Succubus is her ability to adapt and evolve throughout the duration of the game. Your skill build (and item build) will change based on your opponents, which makes her a relevant threat against virtually any lineup. Smitten is a skill that can be omitted entirely from a build, based on how relevant the ability to shut down a physical carry is against the team you're fighting.

Standard Build (Knowing they have a Physical Carry):

1. Mesmerize
2. Heartache
3. Heartache
4. Stats
5. Heartache
6. Succubus' Hold
7. Heartache
8. Stats
9. Stats
10. Stats
11. Succubus' Hold
12-15. Smitten
16. Succubus' Hold
17-19. Mesmerize
20+. Stats

Mesmerize is taken at level 1 because you need the skill in your arsenal throughout the game and it can be great to use in pre-creepspawn ganks as it will give your team a chance to get into position around an enemy hero. Also, Heartache costs so much, and does such little damage at rank 1, that it is virtually never worth using at that stage. Heartache is then taken at every available level, as it is your main way to stay in your lane and deal damage to your opponent. Your ultimate is also taken at every available level. Smitten is not taken till the 12-15 range (although can be taken slightly earlier if their carries are outleveling you), because it's not until later on that Physical Carries become relevant, and shutting them down becomes important (also because it is a % based reduction, the skill does a lot more later on, because it is reducing a much greater amount).
Because Mesmerize is not really being used to shut down at this point, it is more important (and even preferential) to have it at Rank 1 (4 Seconds) at this stage in the game, so maxing it out is often not a priority (Also 1 extra second is not really worth giving up +2 Strength, +2 Agility and +2 Intelligence at this point in the game). It is maxed out later when it reaches the point where you want the target locked out for absolutely as long as possible.
As mentioned before, your skill build can vary as much as necessary. Smitten can be skipped entirely, Mesmerize can be maxed out sooner if you need some serious disables in the team, etc.




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Starting Items:

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Runes of Blight x 1 - 90 Gold
Mana Potion x2 - 100 Gold
Crushing Claws x1 - 150 Gold
Mark of the Novice x1 - 150 Gold
Minor Totem x2 - 106 Gold
----------------------
Total Cost - 596 Gold

This item build starts you off with 587hp and 299mana. In my opinion this is the optimal way to start off with Succubus. Succubus's ability to stay in a lane is determined by wise use of Heartache. I generally use 1 Mana Potion either after Level 3 or after Level 5, depending on how well I am harassing my opponents, and then leave the second mana potion right before you hit Level 6, to ensure that you can dive straight into Hold+Heartache combo and go for a kill. Runes of Blight are in there because harassment between Heartache is inevitable from any reasonable opponent, and you don't want to be solely relying on Heartache to keep you up. Crushing Claws and Mark of the Novice are there for stats and for the inevitable Blood Chalice you will be building. And last but not least, Minor Totems are there for obvious stat gain (and a prelude to Power Supply), and to use up (and therefore make the best of) your starting gold.


Bottle

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1491/bottle1.jpg

Start of the game:
This item is simply not worth it at this stage in the game. If you begin the game with bottle (which I wouldn't recommend for virtually any hero, especially with the removal of the 0:00 rune) or even with the intention of just buying a few consumables and/or a monkey with the intention of running a quick bottle down, you will be giving up very valuable stats, sacrificing your last hitting abilities, and your overall abilities to stay in the lane. Rune rushing at this point is not really in your best interests, as Succubus doesn't really have the tools for early kills by herself (unless your opponents play badly), as the combination of a long CD Nuke, and a 4sec Disable aren't really enough to get a kill on anyone. Given this; even aggressively runewhoring, none of the runes are really going to allow you to do anything particularly devastating. In the first 5 levels especially, you do not want to be playing overly aggressively, the most aggressive thing you want to be doing is harassing your opponent and trying to prevent his participation in the lane through good positioning and autoattacks. If your opponent is the type of hero trying to utilize rune control, simply use Mesmerize to prevent him from getting to the runes ahead of you, you don't need a bottle to do this. In summary; at this stage of the game, stats and just general regenerative consumables are vital, and bottle is simply not worth it this early for a hero like Succubus (also not to mention Chalice is a bigger priority at this point).

Early game:
As you get past level 6, the use of Bottle becomes a lot more relevent. Using runes will help you really abuse your role as a ganker, Invisibility and Haste are your two most devastating runes; both used to setup the perfectly positioned lethal gank, but Illusion (spawn Illusions to attack them while the real you is holding them in place) and Regeneration (helping renew your limited mana pool) are also very strong. After Marchers, Chalice and TP's I tend to get a bottle, to allow Succubus a lot of ganking freedom. Another useful trick in tight fights when you and your opponent are both low on HP, is to Mesmerize them, take a few swigs from your bottle, and by the time the sleep wears off, you have your mana and hp back, and the've lost hp from the sleep, often giving you the advantage you need to turn a possible death into a kill. Abusing Bottle to gank early on can give you huge advantages and should rarely be passed up.

How early or late you take this item depends entirely how you're farming/what stage the game is at, and the role your team needs you to play. Bottle is not a 100% must have, but I have found in a large majority of games, it is an item worth buying. As in general for a lot of Succubus items, your build is adaptable, Bottle is another one of those items. Assess what you need, and be aware of the option of playing with it.

Blood Chalice

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_BloodChalice.jpg

Blood Chalice, mostly based off the item Soul Ring from DotA, is an incredibly potent item on Succubus. This is an item you should finish as soon as possible during your laning phase (not too difficult, as all you need to complete it from your starting items is a 325g Scarab). It allows you to use Heartache much more frequently, and the life you lose from the Chalice activation, is more than made up by Heartaches life gain, so it becomes much more spammable. On a hero where mana and a somewhat limited mana pool are very relevant (especially early game) this item is a godsend, and should be bought 99% of games.

Early Game Items:

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Early game you want to just be generally fleshing out your original items. Start looking to turn the Minor Totems into a Power Supply because Power Supply is always an item worth having (can be picked up earlier or later based on the presence of spell spamers i.e Armadon, Chipper etc.). You turn your Novice and Crushing Claw into a Blood Chalice, because this item is spectacular on Succubus. You also want to be picking up your Striders or Ghost Marchers reasonably early, to get your gank on. You want to be grabbing Homecoming Stones because they're essential for every purpose; defending opponents tower dives, tower defenses, retreating, quick lane swapping, ganks, avoiding skills like Rupture and Arachna's Ult, you name it, Homecoming Stone can do it.


http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7663/boots2.jpg


Striders; These give Succubus the freedom to move between lanes to gank, to runes for your bottle, and general overall map mobility. They cost very little which lets you focus on your other core items, and provide nothing that Succubus doesn't need (which a lot of other boots do). Overall they are in my opinion the second best boots available for Succubus (they were the best pre-nerf, but since then, Ghost Marchers have crept back to the number 1 spot)

Ghost Marchers; the damage aspect isn't overly relevant to her (although depending on how long your laning period lasts, and how well you farm early, getting the Punch Dagger's can help out a lot with last hitting). Ghost Marchers certainly are a great option on Succubus due to how well the speed boost synergises with the playstyle of Succubus. Early on in the game she is a ganker, her role is to get into a perfect position, get off Succubus' Hold, and allow her team to score some quick kills. Ghost Marchers allow for setting up said positioning, whether it be via catching up to an opponent to get off a Mesmerize to hold them in place, getting that extra bit of range to pull off that last Heartache to seal the deal, or quickly getting the jump on someone to pull off a good Succubus' Hold. This item adds to the element of 'surprise' of a Succubus gank, you can get into position from the trees or TP gank very effectively with this item.

Plated Greaves; are ~okay~. The movespeed is on par with Ghost Marchers (without the speed boost for positioning), you get slight stats, and you get some reasonable armor, but overall this item doesn't do a whole lot for you. On the whole it's too defensive for an offensive ganker like Succubus, and doesn't really offer you that much, not really recommended at all.

Steamboots; with the change to line HoN Steamboots up with the DotA ones, this item has become a lot less useful Succubus. The movespeed is down, meaning it's harder to get your positioning right, the stats are down, meaning the survivability option suddenly isn't so survivable anymore, and the addition of attack speed, which was the least attractive aspect of old Ghost Marchers for Succubus. Overall it's not as strong as it used to be, they are still good, but the alternatives are better.

Boots of Travel; are ~generally~ speaking too slow to farm, and while they certainly give Succubus a lot of ganking freedom, and the sudden movespeed boost and ability to teleport to the middle of nowhere is fantastic. I find that Succubus a) Isn't that farm dependant, so jumping around to farmable lanes isn't particularly useful, and b) Has no fast farming mechanism, so being able to jump from farm to farm isn't that easy. You'll generally find that the gold is more productive to spend in other areas, and this item is more often than not, not the best choice unless you are getting a really amazing farm and/or a lot of hero kills.


Mid-Late Game Items:

Most of the time, going into midgame, this is how you want your inventory to be looking, recommended to go with either Puzzlebox or Portal Key as your first major item, depending on your game situation:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/1562/midgame.jpg
or
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9040/midgame2.jpg

Now here is where Succubus really shines. She has many options here for how to build her for midgame onwards, all tailored to your opponents team and playstyle. Main items for Succubus:

Portal Key
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_PortalKey.jpg
2,150 Gold.

Going back to the point made during the boots discussion, positioning is absolutely essential on a hero like Succubus. Portal Key does several things for you;

1. Gives you a strong initiating tool, allowing you to get into a safe position from which to control fights to the best of your ability.
2. Allows you to catch escaping heroes and get off that Mesmerize/Heartache needed to finish them off.
3. Coupled with Mesmerize, gives you a really strong escape mechanism, being able to sleep and blink away gets you out of many potentially difficult situations.

Portal Key is certainly a very potent tool, and is very well suited for gank-heavy strategies (which Succubus is very viable for). This item is relatively cheap, effective, and really gives you the mobility and the ability to jump on enemies unexpectedly, high priority item.

Puzzlebox

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1518/puzzlel.jpg

This item is extremely strong on this hero and synergises extremely well with Succubus's playstyle, and can provide a lot of strong plays, especially those very familiar with micromanagement. At level 3 Puzzlebox provides:

Passive:


+14 Strength
+24 Intelligence

Activeateable:
Minions with


Mana Burning attack
Explosion on Death
True Sight (1,000 Range Invisibility Detection [Only at level 3])
Mana Burn activatable ability
Haste Aura (Movement and IAS increase)

As you can see, this is not an item to be trifled with. The combo of Mesmerize + Bust Out Minions + Succubus' Hold + Mana Burn + Attacks while target is held, is enough to bring down virtually any foe. While the use of this item is more prominent in ganks and solo work early game, as it gets later on, the haste aura and true sight help your team immensely, also making it a fantastic counter to stealth heroes. At level 3 you can use this item to Counter-Ward also, making it incredibly versatile.

This item has has undergone a lot of changes since it was first introduced, as it stands now, it is an incredibly powerful item, and fantastic to help your team push with, the cost is quite low compared to most major items, putting it quite within your reach for a low farm character.

Tablet of Command

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5900/tablet2.jpg

This item (as with many intellect support/gankers) is a fantastic tool to have on you. The uses of this single item are too many to mention, but one of the best situations to pick this up is against heroes that can silence you or can make themselves immune to your CC (Blood Hunter, Predator, Jeraziah to name a few) that will all jump onto you and give you no real option to get away, being able to push yourself over ledges and other terrain is insanely helpful, not to mention the ability to do it to your allies as well. It also provides you with great early stats and a nice intelligence boost to fix your smallish mana pool, definately a tool to be aware of.



Kuldra's Sheepstick

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6/sheepstick.jpg

This item is also very strong, however slow to farm, if you don't have the gold available to you, or you're the main support hero (read: main warder) for your team, this item is often a bit too expensive to shoot for. Kuldra's Sheepstick does several things for you:


Large Intelligence Boost, solving the low Mana Pool problem
Has a nice Strength Boost, giving you some extra survivability in team fights.
Gives your the Mana Regeneration to use your abilities more aggressively, and really let you take control of fights, without having to manage your mana pool quite so much.
And most importantly; gives you yet another (very powerful) disable to aid your team.

This is still an incredibly potent item and will really let Succubus come into her own. The items involved in the recipe are also very beneficial, Manatube > Blessed Orb > Acolyte's Staff, give you the things, in order, to cover a lot of Succubus's flaws, and give you a nice steady progression over the course of the game. If you are having a very good farm, or are in desperate need of another disable, this item is worth going for.

Shrunken Head

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9716/shrunkenhead.jpg

Shrunken Head is for those matches where you realize you're just not going to be getting any casts off. You're the first target every fight, you're hit with an array of stuns, you just generally can't find the time to contribute anything useful before you're gunned down. Succubus relies on her ability to control the flow of a team fight, who gets to fight, who can use their abilities at what times, and who is taken out of the fight entirely. Without the ability to do this, Succubus loses a lot of her potency. Shrunken Head provides you with a window after the initiation of a team fight to:


Get off your initial casts; Smitten and Mesmerize
Channel Succubus's Hold without interruption
Take the attention away from yourself, and hopefully onto a hero that can take more hits than you can (how 'hopeful' this is, depends entirely upon how well you set up your disables on the opposing team).

This is a very useful item for Succubus, and generally a goal in most games with a balanced opposing team (whether it comes before or after your Puzzlebox is a choice you make based on how vulnerable you feel to the opposing lineup).





Luxury Items:

Generally you won't have the excess gold to really worry about luxury items on this hero, however if you're having a really successful game and are looking for options to further flesh out your inventory, these are some options for you:

Hellflower

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6124/hellflower2.jpg

This is a particularly devastating item, and can be a powerful addition to your arsenal. Best picked up in conjunction with Portal Key, it gives you the ability to dive onto your enemy carry (particularly effective if they have a shrunken head or other type of activatable magic immunity) and lock them down utterly before they can even react. One of the biggest things about Hellflower is it simply does not matter how farmed a hero gets, getting the jump on him with a quick Hellflower activation will make them fall extremely quickly. Not to mention it will do wonders for your mana regeneration, giving you the ability to spam your spells much more freely, it will also make your autoattacks something to be addressed by your opponents. Definitely be aware of this tool later on in the game.


Frostfield Plate


http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5158/frostfieldplate.jpg

This item is recommended when your opponents have a lot of autoattacking power on their team, the -25 attack speed aura is more effective in team fights than most people give it credit for, and can cut down your opponents damage potential quite substantially. Also, it gives adds something to your repertoire that you can't previously contribute; an AoE presence, allowing you to damage and snare groups of your opponents. This is a very handy item in the right situation, but should only be gotten later on in the game.

Sacrificial Stone

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3825/sacrificialstone2.jpg

I chose to include this here, because although it is certainly a useful item for Succubus, I would advise to avoid it in a core build. The stats on it are certainly very relevant to Succubus, in that the mana regeneration and additional hp and mana help cover up her flaws, but overall, the expense and lack of utility of this item, leave better choices to be taken. However in the clinching moments of a match, extra charges on this make for quick recoveries, and the on-death bonus helps a lot during team fights. Certainly not an item to be overlooked, but not worth rushing for.

Null Stone

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5579/nullstone2.jpg

Yet another item to help with general survivability. This is for those matches where getting Shrunken Head wasn't a worthwhile investment, but there are still some targeted stuns/ministun nukes that can interrupt your channeling, and make your life difficult. Nullstone's spell block helps protect you during your ultimate, and gives you the additional stats to make it hard to focus fire you.

As with all heroes, this is not the be-all end-all of lists, but generally the items you will use/aim for in 90% of games. It all comes down to the situation and who you are up against. I specifically left out an order in which to obtain these items, as it varies a lot from situation to situation. As mentioned previously, Succubus' strength is in her versatility and adaptability, you are only limited by your ability to assess what is needed.

Wards:

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_FlamingEye.jpg http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_ManaEye.jpg

As mentioned earlier, Succubus is a hero that is defined largely by her abilities and spells, not by her items. Her scalability with items is not nearly as large as other heroes, and as with other heroes of this type (Myrmidon, Andromeda, etc.) this makes you the perfect hero for...you guessed it; Wards!
Warding and Counter-Warding is essential in any game of HoN you will ever play, information is everything, and your team will love you for it. There are many warding guides out there, so I won't go into specifics, but be aware that Succubus is great for this role, and don't shy away from getting eyes out there.

[Dyzfunkshun]

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9664/bannerfans84836887.jpg





Early Game:

Which Lane To Go:
As Succubus, your heavy preference is to solo mid, with your ability to last hit and stay in your lane, you will have an easy time against almost any hero in the game. However don't let this limit you, Succubus can do okay in dual-lanes as well, setting up kills with Mesmerize (either on their stunner/disabler) or using it to get into position to take down an opponent with the aid of a team mate. If you have a hero that will really benefit from a solo lane, don't feel like you need to solo to reach your potential, politely slip into a lane with a team mate that you can do well with. While you are a really really powerful mid hero, other heroes will scale better than you will by going mid, and denying them that opportunity will often hinder your team more than help it.

Laning Solo Mid:

Your job here is easy, just sit and farm and last hit. You do not need to rush into kills. Succubus has a fantastic attack animation and very strong base damage, allowing you to sit back in a lane and just pick off creeps.

What's your opponent doing?
This is something you need to assess right away. Is it a Thunderbringer with a Bottle looking to harass the hell out of you? Is it a more passive Soulstealer who's just looking to outfarm and outlevel you? Is it a runewhoring Pebbles that wants to do everything in his power to end your life?

You need to find out the answer to these questions as early as possible and react accordingly. If you're against someone who you know is going to abuse runes to dominate you in a lane, get an ally (or use a courier) to run you down some Observer wards and simply abuse mesmerize get to his runes first before he can make use of them.

If you are facing someone who is not interested in harassing you heavily, and just wants to farm, that's fine, do likewise. Against nearly all heroes, you will gain a huge advantage on them as soon as you hit Level 6. Make sure to use Heartache occasionally after level's 3 and level 5, to stop them sitting on full hp, and then use that momentum to your advantage, and look for an opportunity to score a kill. Against players that don't do much in a lane, it's very easy to stockpile up your mana, and use everything in your arsenal on them as soon as you hit level 6.

Also be very aware of your positioning in the lane. Succubus really excels against melee mids, as can just plant herself behind the creep wave (on the opposing side), if the opposing hero wants to try and fight you, great, just exchange autoattacks and then heartache them in the face, there is almost no hero that can trade hits with you because of this. If they aren't willing to trade hits with you, then just sit and get every single last hit, and outlevel them completely. After level 3 it becomes really easy to do this, also works against low-threat range heroes who can't really do much to you either (although it can be a bit harder in some situations, because a lot of heroes will outrange you). But just be aware you are in a position with your skills to prevent the opposing heroes from getting even a single creep kill, it's good fun.

Laning in a Dual Lane:
Your best friends here are heroes that require positioning to really abuse their damage abilities:
Pebbles
Soulstealer
Valkyrie
Behemoth
These are just examples of a few heroes that will greatly appreciate a 4 second window in order to setup a great place to abuse their abilities. Use Mesmerize offensively, even when not looking to score a kill, make their laning life a living hell.

I've hit Level 6, what now?
Early on with Succubus, you are a ganker, that is your role. Be aware of both your team and your opponents team, and where they are at all times. Succubus can turn a potentially overwhelming fight in favor of your team with careful use of her abilities. See which lanes need the most help, and use Homecoming Stone's and move around behind the trees to setup kills.
This is one of the best aspects of Succubus Ganking, you can Hold them, and they won't even know it's coming;
Example:
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6104/succyowning2.jpg

Here in this picture, Sand Wraith thinks he's just sitting back having a nice farm, with my ally Pebbles too low HP to be able to really do anything to him. I teleport down to my bottom tower and run behind the trees, and sit and wait. The Sand Wraith gets himself into a vulnerable position and I start to hold him from the shadows. I have then set my Pebbles up for a great Stun/Toss combo to completely destroy Sand Wraith.



Something to always bare in mind, is that while Succubus is capable of some devastating solo kills on Low HP opponents, she really shines setting up her teammates for kills. As already gone over, Succubus doesn't rely on her items as much as other heroes, meaning you are in a great position to setup kills for team mates to get them hero kill gold. Ways you can abuse this is to Heartache BEFORE you Hold (if the situation permits) to get them even lower straight off the bat, to setup a team mate to get an easy quick kill. A well played Succubus should end games with her assists through the roof.

Use the early game to roam around the map from lane to lane using combination's of Mesmerize/Heartache/Succubus' Hold to set your team mates up for kills, helping your whole team farm up and reach the next phase of the game.

It's Mid-Endgame, team-push time!
At this stage you should have finished your early game build and be on your way to your Puzzlebox or Shrunken Head. You're now reaching the phase of the game where your role in fights has evolved from ganker to disabler. Your role here is to assess who can stun/disable on their team, and stop them from doing their job.
Example:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2983/teamfight2.jpg

Here in this (rather unrealistically staged) fight, I've seen my opponents and decided that Magmus is quite clearly the hero here that's going to do the most damage, so I've Mesmerized him and taken him out of the fight. I've then realized that Pyromancer has a huge AoE stun and massive damage output, but is relatively easily killed. So I've turned my grip to him in the hopes that my team will now press forward, take out the Pyromancer and with that momentum will be able to clean up the rest of their team.



An important note to be aware of with Succubus, as is the case with a lot of casters, the longer the game goes on, the less potent you become. Your spells will be doing less damage by comparison, and the damage aspect (especially Heartache) of your game become a lot less relevant. Due to this, you need to be aware that the most valuable aspect of your game is locking your opponents out of fights. While I have outlined the control of sleeping one devastating hero, and holding (and setting up a kill) on an equally devastating and perhaps more vulnerable hero, be aware that another option is being able to chain Sleep into Hold. This is a tactic that is viable when your opponent has just 1 hero (one that can be quite tricky to take down) that will wreck your team if he gets active. Examples of such a hero are Behemoth and Magmus. Many teams often rely on a Portal Key abusing devastating hero to really turn the tide of a large team fight; you are in a unique position here to be able to chain a 7 second sleep into a 5 second hold, effectively eliminating their damage potential, even if this doesn't directly kill them, their ability to impact the fight will be gone, as often their team mates will have died, letting your allies prepare and combat them when it's over. So make sure you are aware of your disabling option, and understanding the capabilities you possess to alter the outcome of large team battles.

Using Smitten:

Another relevant late game tool to be aware of how to use correctly is Smitten:

Smitten
Level 4
-120% Base Damage applied to target for 20 seconds.

Now given that, let's compare this to a skill from The Dark Lady

Dark Blades
Level 4
Duration 6 seconds.
80% Base Damage
Attacks silence target for 2.5 seconds

I show you this to put in perspective just how devastating this ability can be. When under the effect of Dark Blades, Dark Lady's damage output is MASSIVE, she can entirely annihilate heroes and entire creep waves with ease. Now look at the other side of the rainbow, a carry such as The Dark Lady, instead of having an +80% damage BUFF, is instead carrying around a -120% damage DEBUFF. This is a huge huge swing in damage output. And not just that, without a dispeller on their team, it will be sitting on that hero for a massive 20 seconds. The ability to identify a hero in the opponent line up that will be crippled by Smitten is essential to winning fights. If you can recognize early the need to spec into it during a match, and make sure you have it in your arsenal at the appropriate time you can really hinder your opponents entire team.

A selection of heroes that really rely on their base damage output:
The Dark Lady
The Madman
Arachna
Puppet Master
Hammerstorm
Maliken
Pestilence
Pandamonium
Flint Beastwood
Night Hound



This is not the be-all end-all of heroes that Smitten is effective against, but just so you get the idea of the kind of threats that it can be utilized against. Essentially it's any hero that can cut you up just by right clicking on you. If you see a hero like this on the other side that has had a relatively good game (has got a few kills, has farmed well, has not been kept under control) then you need to get points into this talent. Applying this on a hero at the very start of a team fight is crucial, and then being aware of the 20second duration (and 15second cooldown) so you can reapply it when necessary. Just another very powerful skill in a jam packed lineup.






http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8627/bannerfans84836888.jpg






Preface: All lists include the highlighted heroes, but are not exclusively limited, these examples are provided to give you an outline of Succubus' strengths and weakness in relation to other heroes, to provide you with a more informed opinion.


Good Laning Buddies:

Positional Requirement Heroes:

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/22/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/103/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/3/icon_128.jpg

In this category (as outlined earlier in the guide) you are in a great way to abuse heroes that require setting up a key position to really abuse their abilities. Your ability to Mesmerize an opponent from quite a long range (650 range, much longer than your auto attack) means you can setup a great opportunity for a Pebbles to walk right up for Toss+Stun, lock a hero in place so Valkyrie can throw a perfect arrow and follow up on it, or pin down a hero while Behemoth walks into that blissful spot that entire blocks off any kind of escape, so you can beat on them. There are several other heroes that abuse positional requirements, be aware of who they are, and be aware of your synergy with them.




Heroes that need Babysitting:

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/26/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/4/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/116/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroview.php?hid=116

In this catagoy you have heroes that need a helping hand at the start of the game. You have several huge plus's in your arsenal that makes these lanes very powerful. First and foremost you need to be aware that these heroes are weak and especially vulnerable in the early game, and are very succeptable to powerful opposing lanes (Pyro+Hammerstorm, other dual-stun lanes etc.) you are able to defend these heroes with your sleep, if your opponents are really trying to kill your squishy team mates, you are there to help them and save their asses. Secondly, you have an amazing attack animation as previously discussed, meaning you are able to not only harass your opponents very successfully, you are able to sit and deny experience from their lane, while letting the carry farm to his hearts content, getting last hits and getting that essential gold. You also pair up well with these heroes offensive capabilities, using sleeps offensively, paired with the leap and bash of Chronos and dagger of Sand Wraith, or the Silence and Charge of Dark Lady's, not only are you strong on defense, you can make the strong offensive plays if the opportunities present themselves.

IF you're not soloing, these are the two types of lanes that you will truly excel in, often when not asked to solo, you're put into a babysitting lane. It's not often you see Succubus put into a super offensive lane, as she doesn't really do too much until she gets her ult, in which case she becomes much more of a roaming ganker, so lane composition isn't nearly as important.

Hard Lane Heroes:



Heroes that can silence you:

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/16/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/26/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/5/icon_128.jpg


One of the big weakness's of Succubus is heroes that can silence you and render your spells useless. While this is true of any caster, Succubus has 4 active abilities, and is rendered stone-cold-useless when she cannot cast, especially if nailed with a silence at a crucial time (when they know you're about to Heartache, or Mesmerize them) they can make things very painful for you if they can predict your actions. You need to play very defensively against these foes, and realise and respect their potential to put you in very sticky situations, and react accordingly. The Dark Lady is especially brutal in this situation because she also falls into another weakness of Succubus covered shortly; heroes with High Mobility, in that not only can she silence, she can get up close and personal with you very quickly.

Heavy Duty Nukers:

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/18/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/94/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/108/icon_128.jpg

These guys are not faces you like to see, and they all have...evil eyes. The biggest problems with these guys, is not only do they nuke hard, it's that they nuke often. They have both the mana and the cheap spells to support hitting you where it hurts, and doing it a lot. The problem with Succubus is that while she has great potential to stay in a lane, she cannot afford to Heartache too often. These guys will be pounding you more than you can Heartache, and that's not what you want to see. You need to play patiently against these heroes, you cannot afford to harass them much, because participation in the lane against them, is going to lead to Thunder/Fire/Acid right to the face. When solo'ing you need to abuse Line of Sight, stay above your ramp, he can't hit you if he can't see you, right click on them to draw his creeps to your desired location, and sit back in safety, use your mana potions to Heartache after levels 3 and 5, and then at level 6 go for a potential kill. All these heroes are their strongest if you let them get ontop of you, if you play safe throughout the early stages of the game, even if you let them farm (these guys aren't item dependent, who cares if they get a few more last hits than you). Safety first vs. these dangerous foes.



Good Team Mates:

High Profile Targets:

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/106/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/3/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/24/icon_128.jpg

The best bit about these guys is that everyone wants them either dead, or at best; controlled. This is fantastic for you, because not only does it take the attention straight away from you, it lets you protect them too. That Soulstealer can do some massive damage...but it's okay, because you can Smitten the Madman ripping into him, you can sleep that Hellbringer that wants to stop his ult, and you can start holding that guy who's about to get nailed by his ultimate. That Behemoth could get disabled when he Ports in, or he could pull off that ultimate uninterrupted because that Pollywog is in a peaceful slumber. Your opponents really cannot afford to control you when these threats are coming up behind you, take advantage of this, it's fun.

Tight Bunched Mayhem Creators:

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/35/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/108/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/12/icon_128.jpg

These guys are great. You're a hero that locks a minimum of two heroes (three if you have Sheepstick) in one tight area. If some heroes get too close, you can pin 3 of them down together, and let these guys weave their magic. Once a Tempest, Plague Rider, or Glacius can get a group of opponents in a tightly confined area, there is havoc to be wrecked, and lots of it. This allows you to pick off stragglers with a long range Heartache, and enjoy the carnage. You will love having heroes like this on your team because it allows you to jump into the fight from the trees, or from an invisibility rune, set up a kill, and then watch as your team mates come in and absolutely clean it up.

Hard Opponents:

Heroes with high mobility:

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/37/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/34/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/162/icon_128.jpg


Succubus does not like heroes that can get up in her face. While she does have Mesmerize, bare in mind at this stage that it only has a 4 second duration and a 15second cooldown. These guys can get right up at you, and if you need to escape, they can catch right back up to you, these guys can force you into speccing quite defensive (taking Smitten reasonably early, and perhaps even maxing out Mesmerize sooner, just to get a window to escape properly), the biggest pain about opponents like this, is they tell you how to play the game, you don't get to play how you want to.


Heroes that can Stun and Disable and Control you:

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/10/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/21/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/93/icon_128.jpg

One of the things about being a heavy disabler, is how much of a target it makes you to the other team, you will become a magnet for all forms of control spells. These pictures above you are faces you won't be fond of as Succubus, Nymphora has a hugely long range stun that she can launch at you over cliffs, trees, everything, all those places that you love to control the fights from. Pollywog is one of those guys who can just take you out of a fight, his teammates are free to do whatever they like when you're a little critter bouncing around, or when your hold becomes being held. And last but certainly not least, Hellbringer, this is the bane of your existence, for one simple reason, there's absolutely nothing you can do about him. In almost all cases a nice Shrunken Head will solve your problems, not against Hellbringer, he doesn't even need to target you specifically, just drop that fiery demon somewhere in your vicinity and that's your hold gone, Hellbringer needs controlling, and he needs a lot of it.


The Lamo's with Magic Immunity:



http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/89/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/39/icon_128.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/40/icon_128.jpg

These guys get a section to themselves, because quite simply...they're dicks. You are a caster with 4 active spells. You are quite literally useless against these guys, you can autoattack to your hearts content, but it's not going to do anything. You can't solo these guys, you just can't, don't even try.
Accursed also comes into this section, not particularly because he's almost impossible to kill as Succubus (this is annoying in itself though), but because his Fire Shield single-handedly gets rid of Smitten, Mesmerize AND Succubus' Hold, meaning anything you can do...he can just simply just undo, not fun to play against.







http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1977/bannerfans84836889.jpg

[SK]Korok's Succubus:

1) High Level TMM Match 23-4-20 Succubus Replay:
Match ID: 54032361 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=54032361)

2) High Level TMM Match 7-0-11 Succubus Replay:
Match ID: 51242613 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=51242613)

3) High Level TMM Match 29-8-12 Succubus Replay:
Match ID: (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=42087018)42087018 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=42087018)

4) SK vs fnaticMSI Match 4-0-8 Succubus Replay:
Match ID: 51327621 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=51327621[OK]H4nn1's[/B] Succubus:

1) High Level TMM Match 10-0-4 Succubus Replay:
Match ID: 51999062 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=5199906210-0-14 Succubus Replay:
Match ID: 53949130 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=53949130[DWi]Tarano's Succubus takes on JAH`'s Torturer solo mid.[COLOR=DarkOrchid] 7-2-10 Succubus Replay:
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=18472014
Match ID: 18472014

[COLOR=Orange][KD]Kebap's Succubus solo's mid and then faces off in a high level pub match. 8-2-5 Succubus Replay:
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=15471564
Match ID: 15471564

[KD]Akke's Succubus solo's mid and dominates a high level pub match. 18-3-10 Succubus Replay:
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=15160017
Match ID: 15160017[/spoiler]






[I]http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9034/bannerfans848368810.jpg




Succubus is a fantastic hero that can single-handedly sway the course of a team fight, with powerful disables and massive control, she is a huge force to be reckoned with when played well. My hope is for people to read this guide and glean some information on the playstyle of this incredibly fun hero. If there's anything that I have left out that you feel should definitely be said, feel free to stop by and mention it. If this guide was useful to you also feel free to let me know if it has helped out. By that token as well, if if there's anything you disagree with, I'd love the feedback.



Thank you for taking the time to read.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5706/bannerfans84836882.jpg

[King_Fear]

Something that might be wise to mention under Puzzlebox is that the group micromanagement system in HoN is not, at least yet, as good as WC3/DotA. If you use your ultimate and select your hero as well as the summons and give an attack order, it breaks your channeling. I learned this the hard way and I made me want to /wrists. :(

I'm not sure if queuing an attack order with Shift will work properly, so be sure to only select your summons before you tell them to attack.

[Dyzfunkshun]

Something that might be wise to mention under Puzzlebox is that the group micromanagement system in HoN is not, at least yet, as good as WC3/DotA. If you use your ultimate and select your hero as well as the summons and give an attack order, it breaks your channeling. I learned this the hard way and I made me want to /wrists. :(

I'm not sure if queuing an attack order with Shift will work properly, so be sure to only select your summons before you tell them to attack.
An important note, thank you. Edited into the guide.

[d1m]

How about Refresher for a luxury item? Sometimes CD on her ult really hurts, mana isn't bad either.

[Dyzfunkshun]

How about Refresher for a luxury item? Sometimes CD on her ult really hurts, mana isn't bad either.
This is one of those things that falls into the

"As with all heroes, this is not the be-all end-all of lists, but generally the items you will use/aim for in 90% of games. It all comes down to the situation and who you are up against."

My main problem with refresher orb, is it doesn't do anything for your mana pool at all. And the overall cost of 2 ults and the refresher activation is 1,175mana. Yes you get mana back from your ult, but that's assuming a situation where everything goes according to plan. I have tried Restoration stone one time on Succubus, and I found the fights where you did manage to get off two ulti's were ones we were already winning anyway, or I was absolutely empty on mana, and could barely even mesmerize. And a 3.5min CD on Restoration Stone itself means you can rarely attempt the plays anyway.

It is one of those things that you can use, but I wouldn't get it till I had both Kuldra (for mana pool) and Shrunken Head (to make sure those two ults actually worked) first. So yeah, certainly not saying it should never be used, but I think the alternatives are more useful.

[fairie]

very nicely put together guide that's very easy to look at, premium for sure

[Invictus]

A superb guide.

[Skull4er]

very nice guide, i like your item and skillbuild because its similar to mine :)
but you could add (just for fun, or for -em games) somethink like a carrie build.

[koil`]

hm i usually start off with:

-6 mana pots (300)
-4 minor totems (212)
-1 runes of blight (90)
---------------------
602g

the 6 manapots let u stay in the lane incredibly long. Just stay back and lasthit till level 3. then u can play more aggresive. in level 5 go and spam heartache till u hit level 6 -> heartache + ulti -> dead (this way if ure mid and the enemy doesnt have bottle)

i normally play with Sac stone (after that kuldra), cuz of nice manareg and hp bonus. Cuz of the hp bonus i dont die that fast with heartache and mes.
when i play against noobs i go for hellflower and then kuldra.

i really suggest to start with my startitems. they make u stay forever. most time i can stay till i got my sac stone. ofc this depends on enemy hero..

[Dyzfunkshun]

hm i usually start off with:

-6 mana pots (300)
-4 minor totems (212)
-1 runes of blight (90)
---------------------
602g

the 6 manapots let u stay in the lane incredibly long. Just stay back and lasthit till level 3. then u can play more aggresive. in level 5 go and spam heartache till u hit level 6 -> heartache + ulti -> dead (this way if ure mid and the enemy doesnt have bottle)

i normally play with Sac stone (after that kuldra), cuz of nice manareg and hp bonus. Cuz of the hp bonus i dont die that fast with heartache and mes.
when i play against noobs i go for hellflower and then kuldra.

i really suggest to start with my startitems. they make u stay forever. most time i can stay till i got my sac stone. ofc this depends on enemy hero..
The problem I have with those starting items, is there's no real progression. Out of the gold you spend at the start, 7 are consumables, and 4 are items that (unless for some reason you get Power Supply or various Astrolabe components) are just going to be resold back to the vendor.
I mean ultimately it comes down to your playstyle, but generally I find playing super aggressive as Succubus doesn't really accomplish much, Heartbreak CD is too long, and so expensive that you will be mana potting after each Heartbreak, which will force you to hang back a bit more, because of Succubus's shortish attack range, you can't stand where you would like to, in fear of a quick spell or auto attack from a longer range player, which will break your mana pot, effectively taking you away from your job of last hitting.
Succubus can already stay in the lane long enough for all realistic purposes without so many consumables, and my starting build allows you to flow easier into your upgrades, rather than consumables and resellables.

As for Sacrificial Stone, as mentioned in the guide, I believe you are better off rushing for other alternatives. With the recent nerfs to it I just can't seem to justify it as worthwhile anymore. As I've said, the mana regen and HP boost are ~nice~, but they don't compare to other choices as far as main items go. Ultimately Totem of Kuldra and Shrunken Head will be helping you out more vs. good quality opponents, where Sacrificial Stone (1. Doesn't really protect you in any real way, 2. Doesn't really ~do~ anything), it's always nice in a pubstomp where you have like 20 charges on it, but generally I would shoot for something a bit more practical.

[fairie]

very nice guide, i like your item and skillbuild because its similar to mine :)
but you could add (just for fun, or for -em games) somethink like a carrie build.
hard to see a carry succubus

[GaaraDesu]

succubus ftw!!!
i luv ur guide, n is extremely useful.
thank you.

[Dyzfunkshun]

succubus ftw!!!
i luv ur guide, n is extremely useful.
thank you.
Good to see the guide helping people out. All feedback is appreciated.

[Skull4er]

hard to see a carry succubus
mock + charged hammer are awesome! :P also really nice since the hero is useless after the spells are thrown of, heartbreaker/sleep/ulti got all to long cd's so the only thing you can do to help your team after those were blown off is so autoattack.
btw, as i said, for fungames or -em games :P

[King_Fear]

This guide is now premium'd. Sorry for the wait!

[ElementUser]

Heartbreak -> Heartache

Also, Azen used Bottle with Bane Elemental in one of his competitive DotA matches and got an Ultra Kill (Quad Kill)! OMG!

Maybe you'll want to reconsider Bottle...

[Dyslogic]

I have been using succubus/Bane since I started to play DOTA. I find Portal key to be very effective on her increasing the versatility to the extreme. It takes the enemy off guard. Even if you are far away you can jump-in Sleep+Ultimate. If the enemy is smart they will know that succubus is gonna be ganking each time her ultimate is up, so as soon as they can they put wards/take care and as soon as they see you around or close they back off. Portal key will eliminate this situation by totally taking them off guard. It also helps her a lot with the survivability. Blink Dagger/Portal Key + Guinsso/totem of kundra has been my best item build. I recommend you to try this out you won't be disappointed.
Also bottle on her is not bad at all, that is if you are going mid. This is not because of the plus healing and mana but because she can totally control runes having sleep on her arsenal. Controlling runes will make you even more viable and versatile. Imagine this: The hero runs away looking for a rune, you chase him and find out the rune is there. You sleep him and take the rune, You can even drink and bottle the rune while the sleep is still in effect!. Also having runes with yourself all the time will make you even more dangerous as a ganker.

[Dyzfunkshun]

Heartbreak -> Heartache
Woops, never even noticed that, thank you, fixed up now.

Also, Azen used Bottle with Bane Elemental in one of his competitive DotA matches and got an Ultra Kill (Quad Kill)! OMG!

Maybe you'll want to reconsider Bottle...


Also bottle on her is not bad at all, that is if you are going mid. This is not because of the plus healing and mana but because she can totally control runes having sleep on her arsenal. Controlling runes will make you even more viable and versatile. Imagine this: The hero runs away looking for a rune, you chase him and find out the rune is there. You sleep him and take the rune, You can even drink and bottle the rune while the sleep is still in effect!. Also having runes with yourself all the time will make you even more dangerous as a ganker.
Generally speaking I don't like to fall prey to "Well xxx did xxx with xxx item, therefore it's good". You can set up stunning plays with all sorts of items in various situations, and Bottle is one of those items that allows you to pull off stunning plays in the right circumstances on almost any hero in the game. Being able to juke and LoS your opponents while you drink up, and suddenly turn around and turn the tables on them is always fun, but often it doesn't play out like this.
And @ Dyslogic; I certainly don't disagree with what you are saying, and you're perfectly right in that she can beat many heroes in rune control. However you don't need to have a bottle yourself to out-rune your opponent.
Given an ideal situation where you're playing in a match with a coordinated team, your babysitter/support hero will often buy your Winged Courier (or plain Monkey) at the start of the match, meaning you can still buy your initial items at the start, and rush down the bottle later if you feel the need. I will always advocate starting out with my initial items when you first enter a lane, and then see what kind of opponent you are up against. If you're facing someone who's really relying on runes to make your life a living hell, a) You can quickly farm up 600g to get a bottle down to you (not difficult with Succy's last hitting ability). b) Rush down some wards (if your team hasn't set any up) and make sure to monitor the rune situation, and use Level 1 Mesmerize to deny him the runes.
What I am trying to say is that while the Bottle could potentially be used in the right situation, I want to discourage people from thinking it's a prime objective for succubus, as time after time (and through personal testing) I have seen that it's not as useful as setting up other item choices.

I have been using succubus/Bane since I started to play DOTA. I find Portal key to be very effective on her increasing the versatility to the extreme. It takes the enemy off guard. Even if you are far away you can jump-in Sleep+Ultimate. If the enemy is smart they will know that succubus is gonna be ganking each time her ultimate is up, so as soon as they can they put wards/take care and as soon as they see you around or close they back off. Portal key will eliminate this situation by totally taking them off guard. It also helps her a lot with the survivability. Blink Dagger/Portal Key + Guinsso/totem of kundra has been my best item build. I recommend you to try this out you won't be disappointed.
I will preface what I have to say by admitting I haven't actually tried Blink Dagger/Portal key on this hero before (and haven't actually seen it used), so take what I have to say as theory rather than experienced thoughts. But given a situation where you have another hero on your team that is going to be buying wards; you have a better babysitter/support like Plague Rider/Nymphora/Demented Shaman etc. that is going to be freeing up your gold for building up Succubus properly. It would depend on your early game farming, Portal Key strikes me more as a Luxury item when you've had a strong early game, maybe gone 2-0+ in your lane, and have managed to control the last hitting a lot. Given an average farm, when you've been in a tough lane, I can't see myself wanting to dish out 2k gold for a positional item. I understand that it would be a great item early on in the ganking process, allowing you to setup some great team kills that you previously would not have been able to get to. As the game flows on into midgame however, Succubus is certainly not an initiator (and with spending money on an item with no stats, is going to be especially vulnerable), her role is mainly to come in after your initiator has started the fight, and then sleep someone who is capable of doing a lot of damage. Blink Dagger's effectiveness in this situation seems to taper off, as apart from the "SURPRISE YOU THOUGHT 1 HERO WAS HERE, WHEN ACTUALLY THERE'S 4 OF US" situations, in large 5v5 fights, I would be much more interested in having other items.
Feel free to expand on your opinion, as an avid user you would certainly have more input. My gut feeling is it's just a luxury that certainly helps, but doesn't seem like a main goal.

EDIT:

This guide is now premium'd. Sorry for the wait!
Much appreciated, thank you. :)

[Dyslogic]

Firstly I got to say that I totally agree with you about the rune control and the unnecessary bottle. I was merely pointing out that is not totally useless and that it can be a good option.

About the dagger...
Like you said in your guide, she has very good last hit capability and she can control very well while staying on the lane at the same time. I usually find it hard to not be able to farm a Dagger (only when I get ganked early I don't buy it at all). The problem with succubus is that if she didn't do well early/mid game she will not be able to fulfill her own purpose. In my opinion her main purpose is to cripple the opponent and not to stack yourself with amassing items. This might be a matter of play stile and how we foresee the main purpose of our succubus game play late mid and early game obviously depending on the setup.

Just like you said in your guide, she doesn't depend on items, if this is true then every other items we buy for her are a matter of play stile and necessity. I'm just saying that Blink dagger has been my funniest, aggressive, max versatile item I most of the time buy for her, and I like it so much I almost always end up buying one and going out for gank fiesta xD to try and eliminate any hope of escape. Also Early game Dagger + sleep + ultimate is a perfect initiation combo and like you said latte game it's not gonna be very viable and that's when guinsso or BKB or Euls comes into place. If your team is good you can blink and position yourself in a way that you can sleep any DPS/Main CC and Grip someone else while your team goes in. True, latte game blink dagger will only help you get a good positioning but meanwhile in mid game you must have owned =P.

Anyways you pretty much said everything about succubus in this guide but it was bugging me a bit that you never tried blink dagger =).

[JiggaWugga]

I've played Succubus a lot, and wish I'd found this guide sooner. Succubus is the hero I pick whenever I start feeling lame about my low KDR, but don't want to screw my team over with a selfish pick like nighthound.

I never used a bottle to start with her, and now when someone says "hey noob, get bottle for mid," I'm going to say, "Eat fug," since I got this guide as backup. And, I also used to do staff of the master a lot, but have sort of stopped using it. I still sometimes recommend it when someone asks me, but won't anymore after reading your guide. Because I've seen it on so many succubus, I would sort of feel dumb when I'd skip it for something else (thinking I just didn't know how to maximize its potential, and was unclear as to whether it maybe did something better for the skill besides just a damage increase), but now I shall feel shame no longer!

And although I'm not experienced enough in the game to say much beyond what works in low psr pubs, I've found a couple of items that have really helped me play succubus:

Codex - when it seems like my teammates are constantly failing to close, or when my teammates aren't calling ganks so I'm arriving late to the party all the time, codex is a huge help. It's super cheap and is insanely powerful in midgame. Along with heartache, I can quickly unload a lot of damage, and still have my disables for use. Also, when I run into that high-HP tank that can outlast my hold+ache combo, codex can close the gap. But, I've learned that getting this item depends more on who my teammates have chosen than what my opponents have chosen.

Assassin's Shroud - when my team is made up of late-gamers, I'll usually go for the shroud over codex (since codex doesn't seem worth the upgrade cost, and isn't much use late game--not to mention, with all the kill shots I get with it, it takes a lot of money away from my team carry(s)). Although shrunken head is great, I find the shroud versatile. I like to use it to stealth into position after initiation in a team fight and then drop my disables. Since it's also cheap, I have it early in the game, meaning I can also enjoy the escape mechanism it offers from fast enemies (since I always go steamboots set to str). It can also give me that needed speed boost to catch up to that fleeing guy. And, if I'm getting targeted out of hold by like hammerstorm or andro, I can hold then invis, and it won't break channeling, preventing them from doing anything to me. Depending on the heroes, you can have some fun with this if you bump into a couple of enemies, you can mez their nuisance, heartache the other, then hold him, invis, and whether you manage the kill or not, you've done a lot of damage, held the enemies in a spot for a good duration, and still have 4 seconds left on the shroud after hold wears off should you need to leave (say it's their teammates who show up instead). With the added survivability, if the game goes long, I've likely been able to save up enough for Kuldra anyway.

Anyway, just what one noob has found experimenting. Dunno if it'd even be applicable for anything else. Thanks again for guide. It will certainly change how I build her (especially with smitten).

[ForgottenSon]

I like that hero very much, she's versatile and usable.
The only problem I find with her is that she's very hard to farm.I find it almost impossible to get such items as sheepstick and frostfield plate. She has no farming skills whatsoever, low attack speed and you have to work hard to lasthit. Most of the cases I end up with 15+ assists, 3-4 deaths, a few kills maybe, with several talismans of exile and steamboots.

[StacK3D_ActR]

This guide is epic.

vsmart lvl build, good item choices, i LOVE it.

[Dyzfunkshun]

I like that hero very much, she's versatile and usable.
The only problem I find with her is that she's very hard to farm.I find it almost impossible to get such items as sheepstick and frostfield plate. She has no farming skills whatsoever, low attack speed and you have to work hard to lasthit. Most of the cases I end up with 15+ assists, 3-4 deaths, a few kills maybe, with several talismans of exile and steamboots.
Yeah she is not a farm friendly hero. In the majority of your games, you will just end up with your early game items with maybe a component or two of sheepstick, but that's not really a big deal. The components give you what you need, and as repeated; you're not item dependant, you're not a hero that really benefits from farming, so the lack of farming utility is acceptable.

I am glad to see so many people gaining something from the guide, it's good to see it's serving it's intended purpose.

Also when I get a day off work, I intend to update the guide to the latest patch, and fix up the minor out of date details, and hopefully try and expand the guide a bit with a bit more depth to the late game section, and maybe a good teammates/hard opponents list. Stay tuned. ;)

[archkyle]

LOL, i basically would have written the same thing.

EXCEPT about the bottle, but after reading your reasons it makes sense so i will definitely try out your strat.

good guide, but i always enjoyed the thought that i was the rare few who went stats before maxing mez.... oh well. succ is a great hero that is heavily underplayed but always useful.

[Goretank]

wow O_O very nice guide! perhaps i should have read more guides like this before playing and losing my first 4 matches utterly -.-
this guide is as seducive to try out as the succubus itself!

[Jager]

Update it to include Nome's Wisdom please! The armor, high mana regen and decent heal from her high mana cost spells works great. :)

[fatrend1]

Staff of the Master?

[Dyzfunkshun]

Update it to include Nome's Wisdom please! The armor, high mana regen and decent heal from her high mana cost spells works great. :)
Thing I don't like about Nome's Wisdom...is it doesn't really do anything. It doesn't do anything that let's you do your job with any freedom. It's a reasonable item, but it doesn't do anything for Succubus' playstyle at all. Your main goal is to ensure you cast all your key spells without interruption, not so you have HP after everything's on CD. Succubus is about setting up kills, not a support hero to buff other heroes while she stands around. I would never get this item on Succubus, not because it's especially bad or anything, but just because there's several items that are much much more useful.

Staff of the Master?
Do you have anything specific you would like to say about it? Or did you just not read the bit that already covered it in the guide?

[Jager]

Thing I don't like about Nome's Wisdom...is it doesn't really do anything. It doesn't do anything that let's you do your job with any freedom. It's a reasonable item, but it doesn't do anything for Succubus' playstyle at all. Your main goal is to ensure you cast all your key spells without interruption, not so you have HP after everything's on CD. Succubus is about setting up kills, not a support hero to buff other heroes while she stands around. I would never get this item on Succubus, not because it's especially bad or anything, but just because there's several items that are much much more useful.
Point taken, I will keep that in mind. Thanks. :)

[Fieri]

I really really like this guide.
Micro has improved somewhat after the last couple of matches.
Also, it would be awesome to see a favored allies / bad enemies section.

[Dyzfunkshun]

Also when I get a day off work, I intend to update the guide to the latest patch, and fix up the minor out of date details, and hopefully try and expand the guide a bit with a bit more depth to the late game section, and maybe a good teammates/hard opponents list. Stay tuned. ;)
And I have come good on my promise, I have made many changes and additions to the guide. Of note:

- Rework on bottle information and opinion.
- Reworked and more informative item graphics.
- Updated content inline with the latest patches.
- Fixes of various bits about the guide I didn't like (including updated team fight screenshot to a situation that's at least vaugly plausable).
- Expansion of late game information and strategy section, including information about Smitten.
- Team composition and hard opponent section added to the guide, that I think turned out quite well.

As always with everything I write, I encourage any sort of feedback, hopefully judging by the responses in the thread thus far (a very productive and polite atmosphere) anyone will feel like they can stop by and give their 2c. Apologies if I don't have time to reply to absolutely everything in the thread, but I also encourage discussion amongst each other, I am certainly not the only (nor the best) player to play this hero. Anything you have to say will be duly noted and appreciated, so keep the discussion happening. Thank you for everyone who's stopped by so far.

[Cyrenic]

You might want to mention Accursed in your "Hard Opponents" section. His fire shield can really ruin your day.

[a_cloth]

You should also mention that succubus can pretty much get any item needed. I've seen [5] one of the top tier clans go nullfire and portal key on her before.

[Dyzfunkshun]

You might want to mention Accursed in your "Hard Opponents" section. His fire shield can really ruin your day.
Yeah, definately something worth touching on, added into "Magic Immunity" subsection.

You should also mention that succubus can pretty much get any item needed. I've seen [5] one of the top tier clans go nullfire and portal key on her before.
While it is true, it's sort out outlined with the lack of item dependence. Once it's established that a hero doesn't need items to function properly, it's pretty much insinuated that they're open for various utility (wards, purger [nullfire], etc.) she is definitely open to all sorts of builds, but I'm pretty sure people can draw that conclusion from the guide already. A valid point nonetheless though.

[Marcusino]

The Succubus guides been helping me a lot playing her and I have to say your guide is excellent.

I noticed with the disables + marchers + Assassins shroud she becomes a survivor. I barely die when I get that in a even game (aside from when the opponents are murdering us big time)

But someone named the farm, its close to impossible to get anything on her since she is worthless at getting coin! Only if you end up as the ganker/team killer you get some coin. So any idea how to get anything at all for her?

[Dyzfunkshun]

I noticed with the disables + marchers + Assassins shroud she becomes a survivor. I barely die when I get that in a even game (aside from when the opponents are murdering us big time)
Just because this is the second time I've seen this reference, I want to go over this point quickly, as it confuses me a great deal:

Assassin's Shroud
Value: 3610
When activated, applies Stealth to self for 9 seconds.
Passive Bonuses
+38 Damage
+10 Attack Speed
Activation
Self
Mana cost: 75
Cooldown: 20 seconds
Applies Stealth to self for 9 seconds.
Stealth Effects
+20% Movement Speed
Stealth with 0.5 second fade time
Unitwalking
Next attack deals an additional 125 bonus damage

This is what we're looking at. Now, I have never gotten this item on Succubus, ever. I don't want to just dismiss it, and I would like to explain why;
1) This item does absolutely nothing for you in terms of covering any of her weakness's (an inherently low mana pool, dependance on mana abilities)
2) Gives her stats she does not need in the slightest, damage and attack speed don't do anything for your playstyle, half the time in big fights you're going to be channeling your ult, making this item give absolutely nothing you want in terms of stats
3) If you need the positioning, as mentioned, Portal Key can do this a lot better, has no counters (Pestilence, Arachna, Wards, Eye, etc.) at 1,500g less cost to you
4) Given the last point, you're paying 1,500 for...stats that Succubus doesn't need
5) Succubus is a hero with a TON of escape tools already, and is extremely deft at getting out of sticky situations, not to mention instead of getting Assassin's Shroud, generally you'd be getting Shrunken Head/Sheepstick, giving you another escape anyway
6) There is a better positional item, there are better escape items, there are better items that give you more necessary stats, overall I don't understand why you would ever want to purchase this item on this hero.



But someone named the farm, its close to impossible to get anything on her since she is worthless at getting coin! Only if you end up as the ganker/team killer you get some coin. So any idea how to get anything at all for her?
This is a fair point, the vast amount of your gold should be coming from your initial laning phase, you have to be a strong last hitter, and capable of staying in the lane to generate early gold. You then turn this initial gold into items to boost your ability to get your gank on, getting gold primarily from kills and assissts. While she is by no means the best farmer in the game, she is perfectly capable of reaching her main item relatively quickly. Which is why it is even more essential that you make a good choice with your first major purchase (leading me back to the point above).

[JollyGreen]

I really disagree with a couple of the things suggested here.

For starters, you make the classic mistake of picking stats over Smitten. Never, ever, do this. Smitten is a godly skill, that you want maxed by level x.

For my skill build here, let S = Smitten, H = Heartache, M = Mes.

At level 1: M or H [Wait to pick until you first see enemies! Sleeping one enemy at a clash at a rune can net your team FirstBlood when one enemy gets slept and left behind. You might just want the nuke though to finishing off a fleeing hero you wouldn't catch otherwise.]

By level 3: 1 rank of M, 2 ranks of H. You're harassing pretty hard right now, denying enemy heroes in your lane from easily getting last hits. Use your nuke to restore the health you lose when you draw creep arrgo, but stretch out your harassing and let yourself take some damage. If you went solo, SHAME ON YOU. You should be babysitting.

By level 5: 1 rank of S, 3 ranks of H, 1 rank of M. [Start getting smitten now, you want to have it maxed ASAP]

By level 7 you'll have your ult and your nuke maxed. By level 10 you'll have smitten maxed.

Smitten is beastly, and ruins a vast number of heroes in the very critical mid-game. You aren't helping yourself with this skill. You're setting up your team for the win. You need this maxed at level 10 so when you're getting into group fights at this point, you can easily shut down an attacker for TWENTY seconds. That's huge.

But I know what you're thinking. "I don't have the mana to support 4 active skills! My int growth sucks something terrible!"

That's because your item build blows! Sheepstick is a late-late game item for succubus. Okay, back up.

Succubus needs to buy three things, some kind of Plated Greaves, Stormspirit, and wards wards wards [okay a powersupply also helps, also consumables at the start, but these things are obvious]. The movespeed boost from Stormspirit is great, and adds to your already above average MS. The Stormspirit gets you the int and mana regen WHEN YOU NEED IT. It even gives you ANOTHER DEFENSIVE HOLD. You are a lifesaver.

The thing to realize though is: You aren't item dependent! Buy support stuff! More wards. More! Upgrade the courier! If your team didn't buy one at the start and you didn't immediately volunteer, SHAME ON YOU.

edit: If it's a really aggressive game, buy a Arcane Stick [that +75%mana regen +10 int + 10 damage thing] and end up turning it into a nome's. Do this AFTER Stormspirit. This is a recent change for me, the loss of the old steamboots kinda hurt her.

[Caligula]

Maybe someone mentioned it but I missed it, but the first thing I get on Succy is Power Supply. For a hero that's almost totally mana dependent, you can have this very early. Save up some charges and then Heartache>Mez>Ult>Power Supply>Heartache again. I do find Succy is good mid because if you play right you should have level 6 before anyone else and you can begin ganking ASAP. She does make a great babysitter too, but she's just as good solo.

I have been getting Smitten earlier and earlier and a Power Supply makes up for the stats that you lose. I generally buy first:

1xWard of Sight/Chick (can be replaced with a Mark of the Novice + another Mana Pot if for some reason your team already has wards AND a chick)
2xMinor Totem
1xPretenders Crown
2xMana Pot

Get a Mana Battery and the Power Supply first, skip the Stats and go for Smitten.

[Dyzfunkshun]

I really disagree with a couple of the things suggested here.

For starters, you make the classic mistake of picking stats over Smitten. Never, ever, do this. Smitten is a godly skill, that you want maxed by level x.

For my skill build here, let S = Smitten, H = Heartache, M = Mes.

At level 1: M or H [Wait to pick until you first see enemies! Sleeping one enemy at a clash at a rune can net your team FirstBlood when one enemy gets slept and left behind. You might just want the nuke though to finishing off a fleeing hero you wouldn't catch otherwise.]

By level 3: 1 rank of M, 2 ranks of H. You're harassing pretty hard right now, denying enemy heroes in your lane from easily getting last hits. Use your nuke to restore the health you lose when you draw creep arrgo, but stretch out your harassing and let yourself take some damage. If you went solo, SHAME ON YOU. You should be babysitting.

By level 5: 1 rank of S, 3 ranks of H, 1 rank of M. [Start getting smitten now, you want to have it maxed ASAP]

By level 7 you'll have your ult and your nuke maxed. By level 10 you'll have smitten maxed.

Smitten is beastly, and ruins a vast number of heroes in the very critical mid-game. You aren't helping yourself with this skill. You're setting up your team for the win. You need this maxed at level 10 so when you're getting into group fights at this point, you can easily shut down an attacker for TWENTY seconds. That's huge.

But I know what you're thinking. "I don't have the mana to support 4 active skills! My int growth sucks something terrible!"

That's because your item build blows! Sheepstick is a late-late game item for succubus. Okay, back up.

Succubus needs to buy three things, some kind of Plated Greaves, Stormspirit, and wards wards wards [okay a powersupply also helps, also consumables at the start, but these things are obvious]. The movespeed boost from Stormspirit is great, and adds to your already above average MS. The Stormspirit gets you the int and mana regen WHEN YOU NEED IT. It even gives you ANOTHER DEFENSIVE HOLD. You are a lifesaver.

The thing to realize though is: You aren't item dependent! Buy support stuff! More wards. More! Upgrade the courier! If your team didn't buy one at the start and you didn't immediately volunteer, SHAME ON YOU.

edit: If it's a really aggressive game, buy a Arcane Stick [that +75%mana regen +10 int + 10 damage thing] and end up turning it into a nome's. Do this AFTER Stormspirit. This is a recent change for me, the loss of the old steamboots kinda hurt her.
Okay I just want to quickly say before I address the points you raise in your post, and this applies to anyone in general, I have acknowledged multiple times during this thread that anyone is more than welcome to come and share their opinion on the guide, and/or their thoughts on how to play the hero; be it positive or negative feedback, but please do so in a polite and respectful manner, things such as "That's because your item build blows!" are not productive and have no place here. Also when presenting your opinion, please refrain from trying to imply that you're the absolute authority on the matter, things such as "For starters, you make the classic mistake of picking stats over Smitten. Never, ever, do this"; unless you are winning every single HoN Tournament you play in, and can flawlessly play the hero, try and avoid stating things as fact as opposed to your own opinion, this is a guide to help people improve their Succubus play, you are more than welcome to disagree, but again try and be polite about it. Having that out of the way, time to move on...

For starters you're correct in regards to your point about the allocation of the first skill, often when playing organized matches where you'll have a team stacking up for pre-creep first bloods, you will want to wait before allocating your first skill, however if you are playing said matches, odds are you can understand a situation where you need to sleep and where you need to deal instant damage, and I don't think elaborating in it in this guide is necessary, 98% of the time you will be getting Mesmerize as your opening skill, and I will leave it at that.

Next point I want to address is this:

If you went solo, SHAME ON YOU. You should be babysitting.
I find this is not true at all and I will explain why:
1. While it is true that Succubus is quite a capable babysitter, you will often find (especially assuming organised matches) that there will be a more capable babysitter available (Plague Rider/Demented Shaman/Nymphora, etc.) now what differentiates Succubus from these heroes, is that while she is a ~good~ babysitter, she is not a great one. She has a shorter attack range, making it harder for her to harass a double lane without repeatedly drawing creep aggro. And while she does have ways of protecting an ally, she cannot do so in any real proactive way (DSham Heal, Nymphora Heal).
2. Another thing of note, is that early on in the game, the role of Succubus is purely that of a ganker, among the reasons for this is because her ultimate is so devastating early on, making it vital that she hits level 6 early. Heroes such as DSham and Nymph (true babysitters) don't really have any reason to rush leveling, their entire role is to play support, no matter what situation, no matter where they are on the map. The role of Succubus however is to setup ganks, and assist lanes that are having trouble, and just generally to make your opponents life awkward.
3. Succubus offers no real way to keep a weaker character in the lane, if you have a Sand Wraith on your team that needs babysitting, Succubus won't be able to really do much to help him, she can protect him from big attacks, but overall, she won't be able to let a Sand Wraith farm. The goal of babysit lanes obviously is to be able to harass the opponents allowing your babysat hero to score last hits and farm gold early on, while you take care of him. Succubus can't put any huge pressure on your opponents, and certainly can't do anything to prevent general harassment (and certainly can't heal them up as they take damage) so a Sand Wraith (or equally fragile lane hero) will end up having to go back to the fountain, which is not what you want at all.
4. Given a host of better options, and the necessity to get Succubus' ult up and running as possible, generally speaking Succubus is a hero that is very much suited to a solo lane, possessing both a fantastic ability to lane by herself, and a big bonus from outleveling opponents. I would be hard pressed to understand any argument saying that Succubus should be avoiding solo play.

The next, and main point I want to address, is that of Smitten:
Now, I certainly understand the power of this skill, the usefulness of it tends to scale with the quality of your opponents, the better the team you're playing again, the more you really need to be able to shut down a key player, but having said that, I will convey my problems with getting Smitten this early:
As you mentioned, you are a hero with 4 active abilities, and contrary to your belief, buying support items (wards, upgrading couriers, etc.) will not help you support this problem. Yes, you can buy a 2,800g item to help support this (more on this later) but I don't really want to be rushing an item that is non-upgradeable, is mediocre at best, fills the role of a disable you already have in your arsenal (a non-attackable disable), simply to support a skill that's not essential early game.
First situation; assuming a solo lane (which you quite clearly are not, so I will try to keep this brief) you will be in your lane until level 6, getting Smitten at 4 plays no role here, because casting Smitten on anyone at this stage is a waste of mana, plain and simple. You will often try to score a kill on your player(s) in your lane, and after that often by the time the cooldown is about to finish, move for a kill on another lane. Generally I find myself laning here till about level 8-10 which is affected by a great deal of variables, none of which I'm getting any use out of Smitten at all, meaning I've passed down several attribute bonus's, which are vital to last hitting, getting all your spells off, and overall increasing your survivability and offensive capability. You won't be encountering team fights until a bit earlier on, when in which case picking up Smitten at level 10 or 12 is quite reasonable, and will often be maxed by the time it becomes necessary.

Now moving onto the second option where you assume that Succubus is the babysit hero. Again you are forgoing your last hitting and harassing viability (which obviously you value as a babysitter), in favor of a skill that again...you won't be using. Smitten is a skill that reduces RIGHT-CLICK Damage, and realistically...there's not a great deal of that being done at this stage in the game, heroes are lucky to pull off 2-3 attacks maybe following a stun...or you're blocked off...but realistically, you certainly won't want to be spending 125 mana to save yourself maybe 1 autoattack worth of damage (and this is being generous, without trying to go into too much maths, the amount of damage reduced by Smitten, to actually save yourself a whole extra autoattack is quite a few, and in any situation where you have put yourself into taking [or an ally taking] odds are they deserved to die anyway). So in your opening lane, and during your role of babysitter, this is NOT a talent you want at all, it will drain your mana for very little purpose and will sit in your repertoire taking up useless space. Then slowly as you gravitate away from your lane, this can be anywhere between level 7-10, your role is still that of a ganker, you are using Mesmerize and your ultimate offensively to set allies up for kills, taking dangerous opponents out of the equation, and setting up kills on weaker carry characters, or other vulnerable heroes. Smitten simply just isn't something you want to be casting at this point. I fully understand that you want it maxed out when you start entering the team fight phase, but around level 11+ many kills are decided by how well control spells and offensive spells are setup, not so much by right click damage. Taking Smitten at 10 or 12 will be more than enough to have it ready for when is most relevant, without wasting space getting it earlier (and forgoing the stats which are very helpful early on).

Now, onto the next point, and possibly most confusing; Stormspirit. Now this is not an item I've ever really seen anyone get on Succubus (or in any high level match I've played [more back in DotA days when I had more free time ^_^], or watched a stream of) I've been playing Bane Elemental since Eul's Scepter of Divinity was part of the recipe for Guinsoo's, and when it still had charges, and sure it was gotten then...but a LOT has changed since those days. As it stands now, it is no longer a part of a better item, and thus has no real progression value. The int and mana regen are nice...but those are both gotten as part of heading towards Sheepstick anyway. I mean you're getting 100% mana regen (25% less) from buying a Mana Tube for Sheepstick anyway, and obviously intelligence from the Ultimate Orb/Acolyte's Staff, so the stats on this aren't anything you can't get from somewhere more useful, bringing it on to the activeteable ability itself.

Activate

Target Unit


Damage Type: Magic
Range: 600
Mana Cost: 75
Cooldown: 30 seconds
Applies Cyclone to target for 2.5 seconds.


So you're giving a 2.5second, 75 mana, non-attackable disable to Succubus. Realistically, this is no great help to your hero. Yes, it adds to your arsenal another disable, yes, it's useful in some situations, but you have to be thinking, is this something I'm comfortable spending 2,800g for? You're not covering a hole in what you already have to offer and you're not getting anything you can't get from somewhere else. This is one of those items, where yes you ~can~ get it, but why would you really want to? You already have Mesmerize to use defensively to both setup kills and save allies/yourself. Thing with Sheepstick is it plays a VERY different role to Stormspirit, rather than tossing a scary opponent into the air and having them invincible for 2.5 seconds, it instead makes them useless and VULNERABLE for 3.5 seconds.

The next thing I want to bring up bears on the personal side of things, and apologies in advance if this seems an unfair or unreasonable (or pointless) thing to do, but I feel it helps illustrate a point I have about general item/skill builds/solo vs. babysitter play and the way each of us believes the hero should be played.
I have taken a sample of our 6 most recent games played with Succubus (Apologies if you feel this was an unfair or biased sample, I went back about 12 games for each of us, and they were basically more of the same, if you feel I gave a poor representation of our averages, it was not my intention). For each of us I looked at skill builds, and item builds; true to your word you played the hero like you conveyed in your post, and I obviously played it as portrayed through my guide. I included names of the games just so it was shown that none were especially high leveled matches, neither of us playing against anything better than your average pub teams:

(6 most recent matches as of the time of writing: 4/12/2009 omitted one result of my own as it was a 3v3 match and not particularly relevant for this comparison)

Jollygreen

5vs5 BD 1600
KDA: 2-5-3

BD 5v5 1550+
KDA: 4-5-14

1600+ BD
KDA: 2-4-3

5v5 BD 1500+
KDA: 2-5-3

5v5 BD 1550+
KDA: 0-0-6

The Banning
KDA: 3-2-10

Total KDA: 13-21-39
Average KDA: 2.1-3.5-6.5

Dyzfunkshun

5v5 ap
KDA: 8-5-14

5v5 ap
KDA: 11-2-16

5v5 ap
KDA: 13-2-5

5v5 ap
KDA: 12-2-17

5v5 ap no ab
KDA: 16-10-12

5v5 ap
KDA: 15-4-12

Total KDA: 75-25-76
Average KDA: 12.5-4.1-12.6

I will be the first to admit there are many variables which must be taken into account, and is obviously not a case of "If my numbers are higher than I win". However what I am aiming to achieve here is a representation of results achieved through our own ways of playing the hero. In most of my matches I did play solo mid and was the highest level hero in most of the matches, leading to a high kill ratio (perhaps a bit too high, and shows I may have been a bit greedy). Whereas I will assume from your post, you did a lot of babysitting, this shows with a quite reasonable assist count, and a few matches where it would suggest you were a good asset to your team. While it would appear I tend to play a much more aggressive dominating role of Succubus, playing her heavily as a ganker early game, and using late game to setup control, you seem to play a much more defensive game by comparison. I will let you judge for yourself how you think the statistics stack up in regards to each other (I will be the first to admit this doesn't take a lot of information into account, and doesn't aid much with the Smitten debate [something I can't really argue with stats]). Interpret it how you will, everyone is free to play the hero how they choose to, it is my opinion that the way I play, and have recommended others to play with (the entire purpose of writing this guide!), is one of the better options. If you feel you play the hero better, you're absolutely more than welcome to continue to do so, you raised some points I hadn't previously given much thought to, and if you have more to add on the matter I would love to hear it.


Maybe someone mentioned it but I missed it, but the first thing I get on Succy is Power Supply. For a hero that's almost totally mana dependent, you can have this very early. Save up some charges and then Heartache>Mez>Ult>Power Supply>Heartache again. I do find Succy is good mid because if you play right you should have level 6 before anyone else and you can begin ganking ASAP. She does make a great babysitter too, but she's just as good solo.

I have been getting Smitten earlier and earlier and a Power Supply makes up for the stats that you lose. I generally buy first:

1xWard of Sight/Chick (can be replaced with a Mark of the Novice + another Mana Pot if for some reason your team already has wards AND a chick)
2xMinor Totem
1xPretenders Crown
2xMana Pot

Get a Mana Battery and the Power Supply first, skip the Stats and go for Smitten.
My opinion on Mana Battery on Succubus is that it's not an essential item, but is something that can be gotten quickly vs. certain hero matchups to make your life easier. I tend not to use it a whole lot myself, but there are definitely circumstances where I would. For instance laning solo vs. a Hellbringer, he's unlikely to be using many spells against you, a Death Boil here, a Void there, but nothing huge, you'll get very little charges out of a battery against a hero like this, and I wouldn't want it in this matchup. Against a hero that's going to be playing very aggressively and using a lot of spells, Pharoah, Thunderbringer, etc. the item is a lot more viable. Generally speaking though; this is an item that is more potent in side lanes, against 2 heroes, it will be stacking up much faster, and generally just be a lot more useful. If you are babysitting, then the item is worth considering, or if you're against a whole team that are generally high spell users, I would consider picking one up a bit later in the game. However I play Succubus solo mid quite a lot, and find this item is rarely worth the investment, so to sum up Mana Battery is definitely a reasonable item, and is applicable in certain situations, but generally not the best suited to a hero like Succubus.

[JollyGreen]

For starters, when I say things like "That's because your items build blows!", I'm not trying to insult you, because I don't think that commenting on someone's item build is an insult to them. Rather was just trying to add some flavor text, and emphasis. Apologizes anywho.

Referring to the whole KDA thing - I pretty purposely avoid getting kills with Succubus. When I play Succubus, the only time I go for the last hit on a hero, is when I'm sure no one else can get it. Because seriously, you don't need the gold. Not item dependent. [Whenever I see people cancel her ult early to get the last hit with the nuke, I go 'le sigh'. This happens more often then you would think.]

A better stat to look at would be something like "how often, when we play Succubus, does our team win." But whatever.

I don't start getting Smitten at level 4 with the intention of using it at level 4. I know I don't have the mana to support it, and yeah, it's damn useless at that stage of the game. I start getting Smitten at level 4 so I have it maxed at level 10, instead of level... whenever. I am purposely forgoing some early-game strength in favor of a stronger mid-game for my team.

It's my [unproven] belief that the outcome of the few mid-game team fights heavily skews the outcome of the game. I'll sacrifice a little bit of strength in my lane, early-game, to win these fights.

The physical damage of many, many heroes really does start to matter at level 10, and if you have smitten at this point, and the mana to support it, you can shut them down THEN.

And of course this is why I recommend Stormspirit. If you're getting Smitten earlier, you're going to need an item that's easier to build and cheaper than a sheepstick. I often find that my mana pool can't afford to wait - though if you're much better at last hitting / aren't so worried about harrass, you could probably pull it off.

Also, I <3 the MS from Stormspirit.

[Dyzfunkshun]

For starters, when I say things like "That's because your items build blows!", I'm not trying to insult you, because I don't think that commenting on someone's item build is an insult to them. Rather was just trying to add some flavor text, and emphasis. Apologizes anywho.

Referring to the whole KDA thing - I pretty purposely avoid getting kills with Succubus. When I play Succubus, the only time I go for the last hit on a hero, is when I'm sure no one else can get it. Because seriously, you don't need the gold. Not item dependent. [Whenever I see people cancel her ult early to get the last hit with the nuke, I go 'le sigh'. This happens more often then you would think.]

A better stat to look at would be something like "how often, when we play Succubus, does our team win." But whatever.

I don't start getting Smitten at level 4 with the intention of using it at level 4. I know I don't have the mana to support it, and yeah, it's damn useless at that stage of the game. I start getting Smitten at level 4 so I have it maxed at level 10, instead of level... whenever. I am purposely forgoing some early-game strength in favor of a stronger mid-game for my team.

It's my [unproven] belief that the outcome of the few mid-game team fights heavily skews the outcome of the game. I'll sacrifice a little bit of strength in my lane, early-game, to win these fights.

The physical damage of many, many heroes really does start to matter at level 10, and if you have smitten at this point, and the mana to support it, you can shut them down THEN.

And of course this is why I recommend Stormspirit. If you're getting Smitten earlier, you're going to need an item that's easier to build and cheaper than a sheepstick. I often find that my mana pool can't afford to wait - though if you're much better at last hitting / aren't so worried about harrass, you could probably pull it off.

Also, I <3 the MS from Stormspirit.
I guess it really just comes down to the way you play the game and your style of play. I mean as I've said before, there's certainly nothing wrong with babysit Succubus, she is perfectly capable of it, especially when there isn't a better alternative.

Where me and you differ I think is the really crucial stages of the game, I personally do everything I can to setup early game to my advantage as much as possible, ripping people apart in their lanes, denying all possible experience, and getting ontop of them early, and then using that momentum to gank other lanes and help my team get ontop of their lanes too, is much more crucial in my eyes.

This is a trend that I started to heavily believe in towards heavy days playing highish level DotA, where the trend started to shift to really lane dominating setups rather than mid-late game synergy, where quite often the game was decided by how well you dominated the laning phase, and then whoever had that momentum would then often be able to carry that to a win, no matter which team was better in team fights on paper.

I mean ultimately 2-3 levels of Stats isn't often going to make or break a game, but if it helps me get that extra 1 kill against the guy I'm laning against at the start, and stop him developing properly, then I'm more than happy.

Again, different people value different things in games, and where that value comes from is down to your personal experience playing the game.

[Mizaru1]

Nice guide here. Maybe u might wana add in these unorthodox items that are pretty situational but useful in the right circumstances.

Against predator, he always make me **** my pants. Mid game leap + stone hide +ulti is pretty scary as he can take u down in <5 hits,esp when ur ulti is on cd (only ulti can go thru). Maybe u can add in void talisman to counter ur counter.

Another fun item that maybe u can try is tablet of command. Gives great potential for positioning and gives some nice stats to str and int.
U can use it to propel self in range to use ulti or u can use it on enemy hero to propel him into range to ulti while whole team beats on him. Or u can use it to escape like valks leap.

[Whitewolf5]

Excellent guide although there are some things I wish to point out. I'm not really a pro or anything but Succubus is one of my favorite heroes.

I believe Succubus is an excellent ganker. But as someone said earlier, I believe a Portal Key should be taken into consideration. Walking up and ulti isn't really ideal if the enemy has 3-4 disablers waiting for you since Succubus is one of the heroes your enemies want dead ASAP.

I use your early item build but I deviate when you go to building up the Sheep Stick. After 2 Nulls and boots, if I can farm for a Portal Key, I get it ASAP. IMO having Portal Key early <like level 9 or so> can really own early game, hence giving your enemies a bad early game especially for a team with a farmer.

Since I play the ganker for my team, Portal Key goes top priority.

And another thing. As Mizaru said, the use of Void Talisman can help depending on the situation. If the enemy has Pred, or Madman, or Corrupted, or any hero than can skewer you with normal attacks, will make Void Talisman an ultimate survivability item.

That being said, those two items are the ones I usually get before Sheep Stick. If the game isn't over that is.

[Riku]

Nice guide here. Maybe u might wana add in these unorthodox items that are pretty situational but useful in the right circumstances.

Against predator, he always make me **** my pants. Mid game leap + stone hide +ulti is pretty scary as he can take u down in <5 hits,esp when ur ulti is on cd (only ulti can go thru). Maybe u can add in void talisman to counter ur counter.

Another fun item that maybe u can try is tablet of command. Gives great potential for positioning and gives some nice stats to str and int.
U can use it to propel self in range to use ulti or u can use it on enemy hero to propel him into range to ulti while whole team beats on him. Or u can use it to escape like valks leap.


Why not just use mesmerize on yourself and wait for him to attack you, and or call out for assistance? You should be okay.

[Magnets1]

I think this guide is almost spot-on, although I also skip stats and just take heartache/mezm before I get stats or smitten (maybe 1 level of smitten early). I find no time to cast smitten 'till mid-late game really. And smitten is only effective in fights against 3+ enemies, so mid-late game team fights.

I take the same early game items, 2xtalisman, bottle, e.marchers, homecoming, wards.
Ward whore, work on puzzlebox if we're winning and can roam/gank well, or get sheepstick if we don't have map control.

I've tried plated boots, and in theory it makes more sense to take them, but you *really* need the extra speed for ganking, so e.marchers every time.

You really need to rune whore too, getting invis or haste means you have a very high chance of getting a kill, and you've got a great escape if you meet an enemy at the rune spots.

I don't see why someone said succubus should be a babysitter, she should be middle solo, no question.

[tromb2ch2]

I usually skip getting any stat boosting items at the beginning all together, but I play her more team like. I start out with guardian ring and runes, save up for the arcane ring. I also tend to try not to get kills at all just stall the enemy and let my allies do it. Granted I have a very bad kdr with her, but my supports are usually around 15 or so a game. After the arcane ring I get boots then codex just to do a little bit more damage. It's just a suggestion and after reading this guide I will definately be considering port key (I hate being the first one killed all the time). Oh and it feels really good every time I hear thanks "working woman" for the mana. And that chick is hot btw dyzfunkshun.

[Mizaru1]

I usually skip getting any stat boosting items at the beginning all together, but I play her more team like. I start out with guardian ring and runes, save up for the arcane ring. I also tend to try not to get kills at all just stall the enemy and let my allies do it. Granted I have a very bad kdr with her, but my supports are usually around 15 or so a game. After the arcane ring I get boots then codex just to do a little bit more damage. It's just a suggestion and after reading this guide I will definately be considering port key (I hate being the first one killed all the time). Oh and it feels really good every time I hear thanks "working woman" for the mana. And that chick is hot btw dyzfunkshun.

for a statless item, i think port key is not as effective on her as tablet of command. at least it gives stats and lots of intel. u can try it if it works for u. if not u can always go back to gd ol port key.

[Dyzfunkshun]

Guide has been updated inline with the most recent patch. All content should be up to date.

[ElementUser]

Puzzlebox recipe price should be fixed from 1300 to 900 in your images.

<3 Puzzlebox

[Dyzfunkshun]

Puzzlebox recipe price should be fixed from 1300 to 900 in your images.

<3 Puzzlebox
Oh well noticed, thank you, and updated.

[Lethe]

When exactly did the micro thing get revamped? I just noticed it today and was quite impressed. I can finally go puzzlebox on succ again ^_^

[EGK]

Hmm. I think its interesting that you say that you're main item should be the sheep stick. However I DON"T understand why. Sure Its a GREAT item. But Its SO Costly, and in a non-em game i have NEVER finished it. For the High Cost of the Ultimate Orb (i dont know what its called in this game) you can make an Extremely Effective 2k item in Nomes Wisdom. Provides an Armor aura, a mana regeneration aura, stats, a 100 percent Mana regen on TOP of teh aura, AND Heals for your High mana cost spells. Over all this item is AMAZING for your team. Allowing them to not only take hits easier because of the armor aura, but also because of the health regen. In MY opinion, when played right. You dont need more disable. Afterall, you do have 2 disable, AND an incredible damage debuff. As well as 4 team mates. With a hero Like this. almost EVERY gank should result in taking a tower, as you will ALWAYS be able to kill one, and sleep someone else. Leaving 3+ heroes to fight 3- heroes. NOT even including the rest of your teams stuns. Saving up for items like Sheep stick seems to go AGAINST the strengths of this hero. As she is an EARLY game hero. I also see Cyclone stick being VERY useful for her as well. Being MUCH cheaper than Sheep, and increasing her movement speed, mana pool/regeneration, and still disable the opposing team. Also using more support oriented items allows you to play more of a support role as you don't have to farm as much either. Allowing YOU to be the one to ward their jungle instead of more Farm oriented heroes. However I NEVER even thought about picking stats instead of her other abilities. It is a VERY interesting approach. My only Concern is that often when ganking a lane, there is more than one hero present, and often times both or either of them will have a disable of some sort, able to end your Hold. Only having one level of sleep allows them to escape before then end of your ult. Where as having a higher level allows you to effectively disable BOTH, Kill one, and before the sleep runs out, position yourselves after the ult to kill the other. I have played MANY games as her, and even find myself whoring out my money for support so much that I sometimes find myself getting an abbysal skull for the extra armor mana regen and additional support for the carry heroes. I very seldom lose a game when I play her. (and play support alot due to the fact that i play on a laptop. lol my poor k/d ratio) And I find that the BEST way to win with her is to end the game early. After all my experience playing support I find nomes to be almost INDISPENSABLE for a support hero. So why does no one ever even mention it?

[chibiemo1]

why put stats at level 4?

[MigthyJew]

I play alot of 3v3 games and in those succubus is more powerfull than your oppnents often can imagine. I see alot of different builds which is more or less the same. But what i do not understand is why you ppl don't buy mana regen at the beginning. In my 3v3 games i buy:

Ring of the teacher: 0.65 mana aura + 2 armor
Scarab: 50% mana regen
3 x minor totem: +1 to all stats.

How i specc:
lvl1: Stats - i know, i really do, but thats what i do :)
lvl2: Heart
lvl3: Heart
lvl4: Mesmerize
lvl5: Heart
lvl6: ULTI

And thrust me with the high ammount of mana regen i can heart pretty much everytime its ready. and i ofc go sololane. To be honost you have to kill me before lvl3, cause else you gonna need some help from your buddies. The hearth is a heavy nuke aswell as it steal life. Mesmerize is usually not used before lvl4-6.. And by keeping your enemy down its easy to get creep kills and DI's.

The next thing i usually buy is Preservance (first mana tube, then lifetube) cause believe me when you got mana youre pretty crap to be up against. Then i go for the ghostmarchers, don't think i need to explain why. AND THEN! i buy the Nome's Wisdom staff that gives a 4 armor aura + 100% manaregen aura cause lets face it youre not there to kill but to help your teammates.

We play with a Succubus, WS and Behemoth, and so far we have lost 1 of 50 games with that setup.

But what i really wanted to tell was that manaregen is your friend early in the game

:succ: + :witc: + :behe: = win :)

[Jjang]

Make sure you put that if you pick Succubus, make sure they don't grab Accursed. His shield can remove mesmerize/ulti, afaik.

[Dangos]

You can't solo these guys, you just can't, don't even try. But at least Jeraziah is banned in almost all competetive games, so he can go suck his own...

loool so true, great guide

[SideKick1]

my only complaint is the screenshots are too big and it streches out the first post and i have to scroll the screen back and forth to read the text.

[Largent]

There is a huge amount of TL;DR in this thread so I'm not sure if it's been said or not but Portal Key is amazing on succubus and should be at least mentioned (or tried if you haven't yet!)

Great guide!

[Dyzfunkshun]

my only complaint is the screenshots are too big and it streches out the first post and i have to scroll the screen back and forth to read the text.
Fixed this up, hopefully it should make reading over it easier now.

Sorry been very busy lately and haven't had time to update, fixed this up for the latest patch, including:

Slight rework of prioity items, changing Puzzlebox to Number1.
Fixing up various untrue facts and numbers.
Changing Puzzlebox recipe costs.
Various other things I noticed that were a bit dated.

If anything in the guide you feel is no longer true, out of date, or should be changed, please feel free to mention it, would be much appreciated, I'll try and fix things up a bit more often now.
Thanks all.

[JellyBeans]

I think pandamonium is also a hero which largely relies on his base dmg to deal damage, so might be nice to include him under smitten priorities.

[wala]

While panda deals considerable damage with his combo, his job in teamfight is usually to stunlock the opposing carry. Rarely is he the main dps, so it's better to sleep that support, smitten the carry, then save your ult for shruken-headed panda that's about to make you lose the teamfight.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I think there are better alternatives.

[M5D_SP3]

imho this guid lack of one CORE item i always get on succub ... blink dagger ...
u can port after fight start and disable important targets without being to much visible . rly good for positioning and helps in warding alot same good choice is command tablet alow u to breake any channeling ulti even if someone is using monkay or even jere reppel . and tbh good succub will not get casah for kuldra becouse u dont farm at all and u dont get alot of kills becouse u DONT try to steal from carriers.dont forgott u non stop spend gold on wards too. i see alot of succubs who do everything posible to steal. my standart build is portal key + bottle + nome ( cuz is cheap and easy to build) + shaman's+ plate boots
if u want see my build in action : 31199477
another team was pretty good but good disables from myself and pro carry on ss make us win

[Mousewing]

Hey I like the guide and the discussion going on.. I play pub games a lot and often find myself dead because fights initiate and my team runs when the disables start. I'm standing there channeling and the team is heading for the pool already.

Just for PuB games, is there a way to build her as some kind of initiator or hybrid tank? Yes, I know she isn't, but how could I buy myself some more time for my team to hop in?

[Dyzfunkshun]

Hey I like the guide and the discussion going on.. I play pub games a lot and often find myself dead because fights initiate and my team runs when the disables start. I'm standing there channeling and the team is heading for the pool already.

Just for PuB games, is there a way to build her as some kind of initiator or hybrid tank? Yes, I know she isn't, but how could I buy myself some more time for my team to hop in?
Unfortunately the only thing I can say here is; get better team mates. It's impossible for you to do your job if your team won't support you, the entire point of the hero is to control fights in the best way possible to set your team up. This is part of the reason why you don't see Succubus a lot in pub play, simply because the hero is based around helping your team and not solo killing.

The only item choices I can realistically offer you is BKB, so when you start channeling, you won't just get stunukeraped into oblivion, but that's not the heart of the issue. An important thing is communication though, at the very least use pings to indicate where and when you want to set something up. A quick "Gonna ult on xxx" will let your team mates know that you are there to setup a kill. If they're really not confident in the situation, then hopefully they will just say so, and no one will get into a situation they don't want to be in.

Ultimately this is an issue of communication and teamwork, and as a Succubus player, you do need to take some initiative, and let them know what your intentions are (this is very important when it comes to Mesmerize targets too).

[Hi]

I like codex o.0

[Dyzfunkshun]

I like codex o.0
Well you shouldn't, because it's bad and just promotes killstealing, which is something you should be avoiding.

Also, guide edited some more, more vauge things changed, as well as Portal Key added into recommended items for all you Port Key lovers.

[Bulldozor]

Awesome guide, i've been wanting to play :succ: for a while, i did a game without reading any form of guide and decided to go puzzlebox - amazing item.


I really like the skillbuild, never would've done like that but it makes sense.

Im still confused about Smitten though, maybe im just new to the HoN terms but wouldn't "120% Base damage" Mean that autoattacks do no damage?

Or isn't the items counted in base damage?


Explain please <3

[Pancakes`]

I use the same build for my early succubus, that is definitely the best way to build her. While bottle is crucial early on for ganking, it is not needed at the beginning of the game, your spells do too little damage and cost a lot.

I found that a way to build her if you aren't farming well at all or maybe one for people who don't like micromanaging the minions.

Bottle - Marchers - Nomes Wisdom - Ghost Marchers - Stormspirit/Shrunken head

Sometimes I find that my team is just getting overrun a little, and if you die a few times then upgrading your puzzlebox can take a long time. Nome's wisdom's parts are pretty inexpensive, it costs 50 gold less (not a big deal) and you only need to save up 1000 gold once. If you are dying then it will be hard to save up 1000 gold four times to get the most effectiveness out of the puzzlebox.

You can get the first 4 items on my list by about 20-25 minutes if farming is bad. That may seem like a long time, but the mana regen that comes from the parts is enough to keep you almost always ready to fight.

Then stormspirit or shrunken head depending if they have more disablers who could interrupt your ult or just another important person to take out of the fight.

I think your build is the best way to go if things are going well for you though, and you can micro the minions.

[Calefiction]

I know you said the bottle wasnt really needed till late game and that the stats from the starting items boost you to have the early advantage. I believe this to be true but ive started going with bottle right off the back and ive seen that it works to have such a large access to mana off the back. In most of my fights ill be able to hit an opponent back to his base so much that he is in a lack of money and loss of exp which gives me better farming and pushing early game and the exp difference that turns into a huge level difference, the second i obtain my ult and he runs back at full health im able to hit him with mesmerize take a swig of the bottle and run behind him and nuke him with heartache and then my ult. Sure may be a bit much but its an early gank and that first kill pushes you to the next level depending on how much exp you have.

Now to anyone that hasnt played succubus yet this may be harder to do because you havent had practice but this does seem to work, for me atleast.

Also, If magmus was to use his Ultimate while mesmerize was on an enemy would it transfer over to him?

[DocMesa]

Hello.

Terrific guide - thanks mainly to the effort here, I now use Succubus in most of my games. One small confession is that I find managing multiple characters hard, being still quite new - what would you recommend as an easier to use alternative for amateur players?

[Silverhand7]

Awesome guide, very helpful. BTW, what do you think of Succubus being an auto-attack type of hero? After getting Puzzlebox, maybe getting Whispering Helm with Riftshards so she can still hold her own against opponents even when her skills are in cooldown?

[Dyzfunkshun]

Hello.

Terrific guide - thanks mainly to the effort here, I now use Succubus in most of my games. One small confession is that I find managing multiple characters hard, being still quite new - what would you recommend as an easier to use alternative for amateur players?
This is quite understandable, HoN is so complex and you have so much to think about, that micromanagement takes a while to really adjust to.

However the beauty of Puzzlebox, is it doesn't really require tons of micromanagement. If you think about the abilities:

Puzzlebox Mauler (Melee):

Manaburn (Passive) - As long as he's attacking a hero, this is working to it's fullest potential.

Last Stand (Passive) - If they kill him, he explodes, dealing massive damage. If he's in the fight, you've done as much microing as this skill requires.

Revealing Eye (Passive; Level 3) - This requires vauge microing, but can generally be used as simple as "Look a hero that uses stealth, right click, Mauler follows them around with 425 movespeed (assuming haste aura), Revealing Eye has done it's job".

Puzzlebox Wizard (Ranged):

Haste Aura (Passive) - This is effective to those in range, just from being alive. Positioning and microing is not really neccesary, if it's in the vicinity of the fight, you and your allies will be hasted.

Mana Burn (Active) - This is the only thing in the Puzzlebox arsenal that requires true micromanagement. At level 3 it's a 225 Manaburn/Nuke, which is fairly massive. But think about it this way, when you summon your Puzzlebox minions, automatically all you have to do is drag a box over you and your minions to select them all. At this point, all attack commands will be issued to all 3 units (you+2xpuzzlebox), any attack commands issued while you are channeling anything (your ult) will only be issued to the minions. Given that, the only thing you really need to do to use your minions to a reasonable level, is just pick a hero you want to die, and right click on it. With 4/5 of the abilities being passive, the only thing you have to be concerned about is using the tab button to get to your Wizard, use Mana Burn on a vaugly appropriate target (it has a 60sec CD, so you can only use it once anyway), and the extent of your micro is done.

Your allies will love you just for the passives it provides from being summoned, if you have put Puzzlebox minions into a fight, they pretty much do their work for you. As mentioned, all you really need to do, is to tell them to attack a hero and your work is done.

To start with, all you need to do is get used to having them in a fight, the more you use them, the more you will get used to controlling them, and you will start being able to get the Mauler to attack one target, and the Wizard to burn and attack a different target. But this is hardly pivotal in their success. Do not be afraid of Puzzlebox, it is your best friend =).


Awesome guide, very helpful. BTW, what do you think of Succubus being an auto-attack type of hero? After getting Puzzlebox, maybe getting Whispering Helm with Riftshards so she can still hold her own against opponents even when her skills are in cooldown?

To be perfectly honest with you, this doesn't make much sense. Succubus' end game agility is 88 (68+20Attributes) so she won't be attacking particularly quickly. She obviously has no skills that interact in any way with her autoattacks, so it really makes no sense. You have to play to a heroes strengths in regards to their items, Succubus has nothing to gain from autoattacks, but everything to gain from mana regen/+intelligence/etc. things like Whispering Helm and Riftshards offer nothing to you, and will leave you without the mana you need to cast your spells, or the survivability you need to do your job. If you really somehow farmed that much excess money on this very low farm hero, then buy some wards. :p

[Owosso]

Please for the love of god reduce that smitten to something a little less op, I know the game is great for 5v5 but 1v1 with wild soul and smitten just makes anyone look silly, 120% is retartedly over powered. When I can sit and attack a succ same lvl as me and no absolutly zero dmg then something is wrong. even with a null stone smitten can still be used easily so itemization is out of the question to rid myself of self absorbed losers that use this strategy. I would love more than anything for smitten to be reduced to a 50% dmg reduction and it's 4 lvls increase the amount of time it lasts, which it also lasts for farrrr to long as it is. 2514830 is the match number to a perfect example of what I mean, pls watch as nothing i do is uselfull even bear form I become out dps'd because of a wildly over powered ability. TYVM and Have a Nice Day :DDDDDDDDDD

[SharTeel]

get a shrunken head and make succubus useless (apart from the hold of her ulti), smitten problem solved (also, it doesn't reduce +damage from items, like runed axe +65dmg, if I recall correctly)
(bear alone is enough to kill succubus as well -_-V)

[Jezu]

With your guide, you get Smitten way too long, because succubus is not supposed to farm and he doesnt get lvls. He doesnt have too much items because hes the warder, if he can farm those items btw he is taking a lot of carry?s farms

[Dr_Hobo`]

I like the guide, but it should be updated to include the possibility of Blood Chalice. Extremely powerful early game item for Suc. you can easily rush it right off the bat with a few last hits. And it allows to damage yourself and then steal the hp back at what some would call "zero mana cost". It is alittle risky to use tho, but it solves your mana problems for a long time.
For example: You are mid, you hit level 6 and run bot to gank some scrubs. you mez one, ult the other, realise you are still 100 mana ish too low for your finishing heal nuke. So you pop Chalice and get your kill and gain some Hp. The Hp and Mana regen is very useful because it allows you to repeatedly Gank lanes, and repeatedly piss off your lane until your ult is back.

[Corpulence]

I agree with the inclusion of Blood Chalice. It is an easy item to obtain, and combos nicely with Heartache. It is also build-able from the side shops, with a courier for the recipe of course.

[tromb2ch2]

so yeah now that they buffed blood chalice it is a must on her. Every 25 seconds deal 300 true damage and heal yourself 150. Yes please. And now the mana doesn't go away and it gives you life when an enemy dies around you. Plus I do believe it's only 650 gold.
That's right the best item for succubus imo is only
650 GOLD!!!!
makes her a great harrasser early game or a good farmer if you want to use it to make sure that you last hit a creep.

[Sinshol]

Hey thanks for the guide.

I just started playing succubus and I really like her.

The item build I've been going is:

2xtotems, 2xmana bottles, 2xnecklaces and 1xblight.

Then I would get boots, then powersupply, then striders/phase (depending on the heroes around), and then start getting the requirements for mana ring (pickled brain etc). This extra mana plus power supply gives me heaps of laning ability and ganking ability. I can go around and generally just sit while they do they're spells and then initiate and then use my mana ring/power supply and generally stay available for the rest of the team.

I then usually go nullstone.

[Passthechips]

What is your opinion on Striders/Blood Chalice.

[Discord]

Striders are core on her, now. Absolutely retarded good.

Chalice is STILL not good enough, ImHo (and my theorycrafting), but, to be fair, I haven't tried it out since the changes. I doubt it has improved much, as Bottle + Wards + Striders (all things you should be purchasing anyway) give you just as much as Chalice, with better team rune control.

[Discord]

Edit: Ugh, stupid double post.

[Sinshol]

They ruined Chalice when they removed the mana regen. I preferred the old item build with the new buffs to the Chalice. So I don't use it anymore.

Striders are great on here but I would go phase if I saw I needed the extra damage.

[Ions]

Are you guys trolling? Chalice is broken on her early game you can heartache harass and keep your mana topped off every time its up.

[HeavensDeaD]

heey should i go puzzle first or codex,

[Jayykob]

UPDATE with blood chalice as it is now SOOO boosted and a viable starter item.

[Loki]

I would say Blood Chalice & Striders are the way to go now. They are excellent for lane harrass and getting into position.

[gorzerk]

Hello
thank for your guide but to be honest I find the middle/late items to not be the best items fitting to her.

Let me explain.
For having played or seen succubus many times, I can tell that puzzlebox is NEVER used !
Having 2 additional creatures in your side during ulti is not so reliable ... specially when you need to use tab and play spells not to say in a very limited time.

I am not an good player at all, even a noob one, but as I pick succubus most of the time, here is my top 3 item list that would be an alternative pick in your build if you wish and more affordable for most players :
- Blood callice as a first item : no comment, this item is for her what is iron buklet to legionnaire.

- the New boots (can't remember the name and not displayed in the item corner):
they give suc. a way to run between lanes and finish some work or simply better versatility. the attack speed is not a 'must-have' on her.

- Assassin 's shroud
this provide an escape mechanism to our thin and fragile hero, which is probably first target in a fight. Not to mention how important it can be when spying and letting you mesmerize an hero in a group just before a huge fight.

And then
- Nome's wisdom or Staff of wizard.
this 2 items boost our hero, and finally give him more reliable power than puzzle (specially because each sub-parts of the items are boosting her in the way she need.)

I hope you appreciate my point of view

[Donn]

Hello
thank for your guide but to be honest I find the middle/late items to not be the best items fitting to her.

Let me explain.
For having played or seen succubus many times, I can tell that puzzlebox is NEVER used !
Having 2 additional creatures in your side during ulti is not so reliable ... specially when you need to use tab and play spells not to say in a very limited time.

I am not an good player at all, even a noob one, but as I pick succubus most of the time, here is my top 3 item list that would be an alternative pick in your build if you wish and more affordable for most players :
- Blood callice as a first item : no comment, this item is for her what is iron buklet to legionnaire.

- the New boots (can't remember the name and not displayed in the item corner):
they give suc. a way to run between lanes and finish some work or simply better versatility. the attack speed is not a 'must-have' on her.

- Assassin 's shroud
this provide an escape mechanism to our thin and fragile hero, which is probably first target in a fight. Not to mention how important it can be when spying and letting you mesmerize an hero in a group just before a huge fight.

And then
- Nome's wisdom or Staff of wizard.
this 2 items boost our hero, and finally give him more reliable power than puzzle (specially because each sub-parts of the items are boosting her in the way she need.)

I hope you appreciate my point of view

ur bad

[gorzerk]

oh that was a valuable feed back !

[Foleyy]

ya i was gonna ask bout the blood chalice, use it and it gives enough mana for heartbreak, and then heartbreak heals u of the damage seems like free cast to me but w/e, striders i can see if you are roaming, shroud and staff tho seem kinda useless to me, i guess you could argue a shroud but succ isn't a carry, and you can position plenty well enough with ur disables and striders to never need invis... i agree with donn

[Drasha]

This guide needs images displaying skill ranges and 3 or more replays. Also you should mention the newer items.

[Dyzfunkshun]

Guide has been facelifted, updated to the latest patch with various additions and acknowledgments of new items etc. various feedback as usual is always appreciated.

[Marach]

very good guide. you could add some info about hotkeys to the puzzlebox section - as hotkeys are now remembered between puzzlebox usages, it's easy to save both minions to one hotkey and/or save the wizard (mana burn) to other hotkey for quick and easy selection, if needed.

[vinrek]

Just a few item suggestions about succubus:

1. I think that Nome's Wisdom is a good item on succubus, because not only it gives her more survivability and HP regen (25% of mana used will heal her), the 14 intelligences provided also allows her to cast an extra spell. The stats and armor it gives are helpful during early and mid game, too.

2. Instead of Kuldra's Sheepstick, Stormspirit might be a better choice. First of all, it is a lot cheaper than the stick, but it still provides her with a lot of mana regen rate and can still disable the enemy. In addition, if you use striders as the boot, you only have +50 movement speed during combat, a bit slower than most of the other boots. With the +25 movement speed by Stormspirit, you gain a total of +75 movement even during combat, faster than most boots. This can make a big difference!

[vinrek]

One more thing about Nome's Wisdom, it has an aura effect so that you can support your team better.

[Vahn]

Nome's Wisdom is crap on most heroes, ToC is better is just about every way.

[Warzzo]

How come succu isnt used more in the competitive scene? I just think she is sucha imba hero. If i go mid i can domniate whoever it is. I usually just want mid with her because it is easier to dominate but works on sidelane aswell. If i go mid i usually get 1 in sleep on lvl 7 or over because i want to kill the one in mid on 6.

Just own the lane when you play her. Be very aggresive. If you take damage, eat the HP back. And go back and wait for cd and repeat. Before lvl 6 you try to have the enemy player at around 70% hp and you will probably kill whoever it is.

[ElementUser]

Well her 400 range is usually a problem, you see :3

[pwn_U_fast]

nice succi guide.

[Dyzfunkshun]

How come succu isnt used more in the competitive scene? I just think she is sucha imba hero. If i go mid i can domniate whoever it is. I usually just want mid with her because it is easier to dominate but works on sidelane aswell. If i go mid i usually get 1 in sleep on lvl 7 or over because i want to kill the one in mid on 6.

Just own the lane when you play her. Be very aggresive. If you take damage, eat the HP back. And go back and wait for cd and repeat. Before lvl 6 you try to have the enemy player at around 70% hp and you will probably kill whoever it is.
ElementUser is certainly right when he says her 400 range limits her a lot, if it was bumped up to 600 or even 550, my inclination is that she would see a lot more competitive play. For a hero that has no real reason to be getting up close and personal, and prefers to do things from a distance, 400 range is really annoying to have to work around.

Another big factor is...there are just better options these days. She was picked a lot, and even banned quite a bit when HoN first came out, she was clearly a diamond in a small pool of heroes. But the more heroes got released, the more she began to taper off. A big problem that Succubus has, is she goes from a ganker...into support, and generally speaking these days, people want a mid that can excel early, and really take off with a good farm/early game. Succubus doesn't really have a tendency to take over games, and can't utilize early kills and a good early game as much as other heroes. And then when it comes to support...there's also better options.

She's not useful in trilanes, because of her short range which results in no real ability to harass, and no stuns or slows to setup early game kills. Succubus is certainly fantastic solo mid, and it is hard to outlane her when she's played properly, but as mentioned before...regardless of how good her early game is, she has a ceiling to how useful she can be really. So which is basically where she's sitting at the moment...she's a good pick in a sea of really good picks, and just doesn't make the cut unfortunately. I would like to see an increase in her attack range to give her a bit more of a chance in the competitive scene, but only so much you can expect.

[ElementUser]

She's finally getting a righteous buff next patch

=D

Coming today (hopefully)

[Warzzo]

Wohoo go succubus! Ye i see. I met flint and it was pretty anoying. But if i meet a melee you just go behind his sorcery and control the lane. He wont get a single creep.

[Mr_Rogers]

Pretty lame buff if you ask me :(

Why buff the thing that was working fine as it was, she needed range not a useless buff to a nuke you won't get off more then once in a team fight anyways.

[Dyzfunkshun]

Pretty lame buff if you ask me :(

Why buff the thing that was working fine as it was, she needed range not a useless buff to a nuke you won't get off more then once in a team fight anyways.
I actually pretty much agree with this. I mean a buff is a buff, and it's welcome and serves no purpose other than to make her stronger. Unfortunately it was just a buff in an area that wasn't really weak, like applying a bandaid to a cut that doesn't exist.

It helps in a sense that with Blood Chalice you can afford to spam it a little more often during the laning phase, but you're unlikely to be able to support using it every 15seconds. And as you said, in team fights, it's unlikely that you'll get to use it in a second time, unless it's chasing someone down after the fight is already over. Her weak points are her range, and really the channeling of her ultimate.

A buff to either 500 or 550 range seems reasonable to me, I mean she is a ranged caster, I never really understood the logic behind giving her a short attack range. Another potential buff that I would be interested in having thoughts on, is remaking Succubus' Hold to something along the lines of:

Succubus' Curse
Functions the same, does not require channeling, but Succubus cannot attack the target she has cursed (too strong if she could). So it functions the same in every single way for the afflicted, and for allies attacking the target, it would also still be cleansable by purges and accursed shield etc. The only thing it changes is stops you from being able to be interrupted (a bit of an unneccesary weakness imo) and also lets you concentrate on doing other things like using Smitten and Mesmerize effectively. Channeling her ulti is a big flaw, and being able to simply cast it would really let her be more useful in team fights, and I don't THINK it would be too powerful (and if it was, you could simply tone down a few of the numbers, because even a weaker version would be more valuable when you don't have to channel the damn thing).

Now THOSE are some changes that would be interesting to see.

But still, thank you S2 for the Heartache buff, I am not ungrateful, buffs are better than no buffs =).

[ElementUser]

That wasn't the buff that I was referring to, but she got it anyway.

She's getting a better one :)

[pwn_U_fast]

too comment on the ult post above EU here:

i think the problem with that is, she already has another very long disable. if you give her the ability to stop two enemies for 6 sec and walk away without channeling, thats pretty impressive. get her a sheepstick and she can stop 3 heroes. i dunno for sure, but it seems resonably balanced to me.

i do agree though she needs buffs in other areas, either range of her auto attack, or range of particular spells.

[Warzzo]

That wasn't the buff that I was referring to, but she got it anyway.

She's getting a better one :)

Sweet! cant wait!

[lightor]

i still wonder what items to take after chalice / phase boots

[K1tcher]

you forgot something under cons and why to pick her

CAUSE SHES ****ING HOT ! !! :D

[Warzzo]

i usually go chalice+bootle+phase and always a tp scroll. If they got any invis and they dont have that many disable and we are doing okey, i go puzzlebox. If they got a lot of disable and stuff i go bkb and then puzzlebox.

[InSilico]

Pretty lame buff if you ask me :(

Why buff the thing that was working fine as it was, she needed range not a useless buff to a nuke you won't get off more then once in a team fight anyways.

its not the worst with the buff you can heart, mez, ult then pretty much heart again, the cooldown is 2 seconds off but you can make up that time with a chase, mana is the kicker

[ElementUser]

Making her ult undispelable by Purge/Accursed's Shield is one of the mechanics that should've been there in the first place, tbh.

[pwn_U_fast]

i agree with EU. it was pretty easy to counter suc previously.

[`Alexandr]

Very nice Guide Thx a lot, a tried and i get 7/0/6 30 min concede game :D

[Dyzfunkshun]

That wasn't the buff that I was referring to, but she got it anyway.

She's getting a better one :)
Any update on this Mr ElementUser sir? Was getting my hopes up for something. :P

[JazBosVegas]

Awesome guide, very good insight on item choices and matchps! A solo mid hero who can adapt to lanes and set-up/bag kills? yes please!
Reading the section about heroes that give Succ some trouble they seemed to be heroes with high mobility, heavy nukes or silencers. Should Bubbles be difficult for Succ to handle? I haven't had to verse it yet but in theory he has all of the above.

Edit: I know you take this guide seriously so i checked if you'd mentioned anything/mentioned something that would exclude Bubble from the difficult list:


Preface: All lists include the highlighted heroes, but are not exclusively limited, these examples are provided to give you an outline of Succubus' strengths and weakness in relation to other heroes, to provide you with a more informed opinion.

while this makes sense i still think bubbles should be mentioned for the benefit of people learning Succ just because he has all the qualities of a hero that hurts Succ more than most.

[ElementUser]

Any update on this Mr ElementUser sir? Was getting my hopes up for something. :P

Her ult is not purgeable anymore, you have to stun her or push her out of max channel range to cancel it now.

(Ie, can't be taken off by Accursed's Fire Shield)

Not enough of a buff? ._.

[nikkj]

Nice guide, thank you :)

Was about to say that Valk is a really good friend to teamup with for ganks but she was already mentioned. Must say that the Ulti > Arrow matchup can in fact destroy any kind of foe. Would be a total aof 8,5 second disable iirc? add up a HA nuke and its just over.

[Discord]

Staff of the Master should make her immune to stuns and/or silences while channeling her ult.
Or add time channeled.
Or allow for the hold to remain WITHOUT her channeling if (x) amount of time is reached (I.E: Hold for 4 seconds, during which she channels; after the 4 seconds she is free to move about while the hold will remain for 2-3 seconds).

Pretty much anything besides it's current use, which is atrociously bad.

[Graypath]

really nice guide :) thanks

[Zaigou]

While I certainly don't disagree with the Sheepstick, I find that Hellflower is easier to put together and between smitten, mez and hold it allows her to effectively contain 4 heroes at once. The added damage from the flower is just icing on the cake, and if you encounter anyone alone (or just target one person) you can get the full bonus benefit with your ult and heartache for massive damage. Plus it gives her attack speed, damage and mana regen allowing her to last hit more effectively and actually be capable of pushing a lane fairly quickly.

I do however disagree with striders over marchers, irregardless of cost difference and the bonus damage. I know that striders make crossing the map easier, but having them turn into regular boots in the middle of a fight can really screw you over and make escaping impossible. The faster static speed plus the phasing and speed boost make getting out of tricky situations easier, and with her relatively low cooldowns on smitten, mez and phase allow you to dart in and out to maximize your support and staying power while still being mobile.

[Jezu]

ignore this post

[JimmehCake]

Any chance, you have those Replays in your HoN and are able to upload em?
I'll just need the 18 kills one if you don't want to bother.. but since none of them are DLable..

[Jezu]

Heartache has 15 second cooldown, not 20.
It also has 625 range i believe.
Sac stone costs 100 less (brains = 900)
nullstone recipe = 1000 not 1350

Also, please don't center your body text, rather put it to left and indent it, it looks much prettier and it is easier to read.

[heama87]

fantastic guide man!!! i really appreciate all the hard work you have put into this guide!

[Grathuel]

Nice guide.
What font have you used in those golden titles?

[Dyzfunkshun]

Good news!

I finally got around to updating this guide and getting it inline with all the new buffs and changes to the game. ^_^

Changes include:


New pictures
New replays
Outdated information edited
Item builds updated and added to

As always, if you notice anything that still needs to be updated/changed, please drop by and let me know (it's hard to keep track of alllll the information that's changed, but I think I got the vast majority). Look forward to the feedback, hope this guide is still helping out! :smile:

- Dyzfunkshun.

[Marach]

...As always, if you notice anything that still needs to be updated/changed, please drop by and let me know...


here is one small correction:



...

Frostfield Plate


http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5158/frostfieldplate.jpg

This item is recommended when your opponents have a lot of autoattacking power on their team, the -25% attack speed aura is more effective in team fights than most people give it credit for...


the Frostfield Plate attack speed slowing aura is not percentage based, but flat. so it slows enemy attack speed by 25, not 25%.

[Dyzfunkshun]

here is one small correction:



the Frostfield Plate attack speed slowing aura is not percentage based, but flat. so it slows enemy attack speed by 25, not 25%.
Ah indeed right you are, nice catch, edited.