Welcome, dear noobs, to the harshest game ever. [Archive]

Brotherkai

10-21-2009, 03:02 AM

I have very high hopes for this game...let me say that as my initial disclaimer. The graphics and gameplay are very user friendly, and the hero variety is what I have been looking for for ages.

But. This game goes beyond anything that I have experienced when it comes to community cruelty. Have qualms about being criticized? Move on. Want a "noob" friendly game? This is not for you.

Never in my history of gaming have I been subjected to such rampant OMGUDUNNOANYTHING atmosphere. I, based upon a long history of gaming have a bit of armor to this, but will freely tell those who are considering joining this community to be wary...if this is important to you.

Granted. I have only played 10 matches thus far in my experience with HoN, but easily 75% of those games have been filled with votes to kick and the such.

My thoughts are that joining a clan will alleviate this and Im sure that there is plenty of room to be mentored into a better gaming experience. But. As it stands, from a new enjoyment perspective, this is not casual and this is not friendly if you are a lone gamer with limited DoTA cred.

My hopes are that a beginner channel becomes more effective, as the "beginners only" setting is laughable, at best. I know that I will become better at the game, but the point is, will the average player even want to learn, based upon the savage beatdowns received as being one of the new blood.

I hope to hear some constructive responses ahead, and to see all the willing, in game.

HumbleXuch

10-21-2009, 03:12 AM

The extreem intensity, and reliance on each other in these kind of games seems to make them noob unfriendly, however, in a privous and similar game (demigod) i notiched that in general its the bottem layer who poceses these kind of atmosphere.

In general its just frustration speaking, and as you meet more capable people, and as you said, find a clan, its a compleet change of gameplay.

So yeah, these games are horrid in the begin, and the begin mabey several hunder of games tbh.
I mean there is SO increrdibly much to learn. Everytime i think im half capable of something, i get complete ganked the next game with the same tactic.

Each time i start playing i think, i really like this game, the more i play it, but it also gets more frustrating. Thinking you improved, or thinking your winning a game, only to be completly raped end game, were the balance is so delicate.

Its an amazing game, thats for sure.

partyvan

10-21-2009, 03:16 AM

DOTA's community has been harsh since the beginning (I started when Eul's RoC map was beta). It's been that way for half a decade and I doubt it'll change now. Find friends, play with friends, and ignore the losers. It's a great game :-)

nakke

10-21-2009, 03:20 AM

Best tip: when people try to help you, then listen to them.

sam_jackson

10-21-2009, 04:21 AM

Best tip: when people try to help you, then listen to them.

This. It's the biggest problem I have, noobs who don't want to listen.

Azgalor

10-21-2009, 04:36 AM

Haters gonna hate

Shadowcamsy

10-21-2009, 04:36 AM

This. It's the biggest problem I have, noobs who don't want to listen.
Very true, which is frustrating for the pro that is trying to teach them.

If hon is the first game you've played of its type, there is only a few things you can do:
1) suck it up and play with leavers/ragers/generally bad players
2) quit and never play again
or my personal favourite 3) establish a good friend base where you find people who all want to learn how to play the game together, therefore you know everyone in the game wants to learn to play which reduces the number of leavers/ragers/etc. The best example I can think of is the Training grounds clan Training grounds militia, you can apply to join the clan here: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=30778&highlight=training+grounds+militia

Zakariel

10-21-2009, 04:37 AM

Best tip: when people try to help you, then listen to them.

I need this in mah siggy, I agree with it so much. I had a noob pyro on my team, his first match. He was spamming spells like no tomorrow, and I didn't realize it was his first match, so i got a little frustrated. When he said it was his first game, and i realized he had no items...I helped him out. He played badly, was under-lvled and died a few times becausec he wasn't watching chat. But he ACTUALLY listened to advice, which is redeeming to everything he did wrong.

Losing=bad. learning=good. Good gives mroe powerful emotions then bad.

sam_jackson

10-21-2009, 05:11 AM

Very true, which is frustrating for the pro that is trying to teach them.

If hon is the first game you've played of its type, there is only a few things you can do:
1) suck it up and play with leavers/ragers/generally bad players
2) quit and never play again
or my personal favourite 3) establish a good friend base where you find people who all want to learn how to play the game together, therefore you know everyone in the game wants to learn to play which reduces the number of leavers/ragers/etc. The best example I can think of is the Training grounds clan Training grounds militia, you can apply to join the clan here: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=30778&highlight=training+grounds+militia

I had to learn, and my k:d ratio sucks because of it(never played DOTA, Im glad they are resetting, as Im a little above 1:1 now). And I sucked it up while learning. But listen to those around you. They know what they are doing.

J0k3

10-21-2009, 05:17 AM

Aw crap I wrote a ton earlier but i removed it all by accident -.-

There are tons of people who flame and scream and rage. These are mainly people who hate to lose and hate to have a beginner in their team.

You are not doing anything wrong, THEY ARE, they shouldnt join "Noobs Only" games to farm PSR, because then you end up with a noob in your team and you play against 5 other people who want to farm PSR.

PSR is stupid.

If you are a good player, you want to play "pro" games, because without a good team, it doesnt matter much how well you play.

sam_jackson

10-21-2009, 05:20 AM

cute

10-21-2009, 05:23 AM

i honestly dont care how bad a person is at the game, even theyre on my team... but this only really applies if theyre putting forth an effort to be communicative and listening to advice

archkyle

10-21-2009, 05:40 AM

i get frustrated when teammates dont learn form their mistakes or dont listen to everyone else.

me: dont push a lane by yourself
noob: *pushes lane alone, AGAIN and dies* "WTF no help?"
--------------
me: b
b
b
B
BBBBB
BACK!
noob: *stays in lane and dies* WTF where were you guys?

that **** make me rage. when noobs dont understand communication or eve try to. it's not that they dont know, it's that they dont seem to want to know.

but, when noobs come together and learn (even during a single game) great things can happen.

had a game, was down two lane (rax's and all) losing in kills and had a feeder of like 1-15. game lasted around 60 minutes. i told everyone to just let them come and told them who to kill in what order. it worked... we eneded up winning because they took the time to listen and learn.

but, yes... learning curve is steep but noobs need to realize that most ppl who think they are pro 90% of the time are far from it. just observe as much as much as you can at all times and communicate even if you dont think its helpful... silence can lose games if unless everyone knows what they are doing. (had a game where my team said about 3 things in total and we dominated all game LOL)

i digress a bit, just dont be discouraged. we were all noobs once.

Tripwyr

10-21-2009, 10:35 AM

If you're having trouble with unfriendly players in public matches, I'd recommend joining [TGM]. We try to help out the newer players as best we can, and most games hosted by Anari will be oriented toward teaching newer players.

I'd advise you before you join though, that our in-house matches are a little bit more serious and a little bit less friendly. You're welcome to join them, but you probably won't be helped as much as if you join one of Anari's Training Ground matches.

a_newbie

10-21-2009, 11:14 AM

the best way to learn how to play is by playing. It also helps to read the forums and listen to people trying to help you. Pick a hero u are comfortable with not who ur teammates to forcing u to pick. Play around in practice mode to get a feel for what all heroes can do so when u play against them u have an idea of what they are capable of doing.

and the most important thing have fun it is a game.

Vnc_G

10-21-2009, 11:19 AM

we were all noobs once.
Not all were noobs once. All were newbs once, but not "noobs". Some listen and try to communicate from their first game.

me: dont push a lane by yourself
noob: *pushes lane alone, AGAIN and dies* "WTF no help?"
I got a different situation a while ago. It roughly went like

Situation: I am Thunderbringer who is essentially silenced with no mana, an Empty Bottle and no pots. Nearby ally is getting beat to death with a decent gank.

ally: WTF? Can't you ******* help?!!?!?!?!?
me: sry man got no mana
ally: (more and more curses)

And all I thought was: God and I thought I was the weak one with <1400 PSR.

ShadowsCrush

10-21-2009, 11:24 AM

Not to contribute to the problem or anything

But maybe you could try using the search function, this is at least the 15th thread on this topic

Want to know why people are harsh on new people, because they don't read or listen to anything.

This thread is case in point.

IPlayForKeep

10-21-2009, 11:42 AM

I'd advise you before you join though, that our in-house matches are a little bit more serious and a little bit less friendly.

ORLY? Yes Trip is right, we do have a couple people in TGM that are high skilled members, wait let me rephrase that we have a member than thinks he is a high skilled member but he is really just in housing with people learning. Also I do play with TGM for their in house games at times, which can be frustrating for some people since I do play mid level scrims working on finding high level. Although you should still consider joinning anyway the in houses are not to bad, just someone(s) are selfish.

Vnc_G

10-21-2009, 11:46 AM

This thread is case in point.
If this pertains to me (for some reason), then I sincerely apologize.

If this pertains to the topic starter, well... I can't speak for him, duh.

HONYoda

10-21-2009, 11:52 AM

Look for games that say <1400 PSR instead of noobs only...then make sure there isn't some 1700 PSR guy in there waiting to PUBSTOMP you. That just makes EVERYONE mad and they start looking for the low man on the totem pole to blame it on.

Also, if Scout, Arachna, Wildsoul, Blood Hunter are on the other team and you are in a noob game, that will also make your team very angry and they will take it out on you.

SurgeDrink

10-21-2009, 12:03 PM

Heh i wasnt a big dota fan, but i do like the map / game... Theres always going to be a new go no matter what, its either learn the game or get outta the way :P lol

TreeHorse

10-21-2009, 12:05 PM

I've touched on this problem before... the general dota pub level was so high in comparison to absolute beginners that it can be very intimidating to try and break in.

As mentioned before, Anari's games are a great way to start learning some teamwork/advancing your gameplay.

I know plenty of people who are capable of handling a hero, sometimes quite well, but that's all they are good at. They have no concept of map awareness, team synergy, etc.

A perfect example of this was yesterday - RDEM game with friends. A friend of mine last-picked our team's FOURTH agi hero and her reason was that "I don't know any of those other heroes." Epic fail.

Onelastpill

10-21-2009, 12:26 PM

Just face it, beta is not for absolute noobs until single player mode is in ...

Extreme_Cake

10-21-2009, 12:27 PM

If you turn up clueless enough to prompt votekicks, it's your own damn fault for being too much of a dick to look up how to play the game before forcing yourself on a team.

TreeHorse

10-21-2009, 12:32 PM

Just face it, beta is not for absolute noobs until single player mode is in ...

Not a bad point. I will agree that ideally new players would learn during open beta or release, mainly because they will have nothing to contribute to the balance discussion or mechanics discussion.

If you turn up clueless enough to prompt votekicks, it's your own damn fault for being too much of a dick to look up how to play the game before forcing yourself on a team.

Irony at its finest. You're part of the problem, sir.

Tyrando

10-21-2009, 12:36 PM

I played DotA for a good 5 year or so and i went solo for all of it.

I learnt the hard way, no buddies to play with, dota and its problems which HoN solved, lag/leavers/custom kickbots etc.

Yes this game is harsh to the newcomer i still remember my first game back in DotA and i cant do naught but laugh at myself.

I think people prefer it that way, atleast i do.

Tripwyr

10-21-2009, 01:17 PM

If you turn up clueless enough to prompt votekicks, it's your own damn fault for being too much of a dick to look up how to play the game before forcing yourself on a team.

You're one of the major parts of the problem. Nobody should be expected to look up several pages of information about a game before they start playing. It should be possible to take the game out of the box, and start playing it.

However, because this is beta, it is currently not as friendly as I expect it will be in the future. While we in the training grounds are here to help newer players, it is still not as friendly as it could be.

I wish there were a way to tell every new player to come here for help, but unfortunately there isn't one at the moment. For now, it is up to the player.

Balu0

10-21-2009, 01:47 PM

Welcome to the world of competative PVP games...

When you are new to HoN and never played Dota before and you join a game ... you are like a guys who never played WoW before and suddenly finds himself in the 5v5 arena.
Your team mates want to win, and they have something to lose. They dont want to tutor you in the middle of a competative match...

I think what HoN needs to attract "real new" (never played dota before) players is a somewhat decent AI for all heroes, so ppl can practice against them...

Not advanced tactics, but basicls like laneing and buying items, what hero do waht and such..

I started out with doat a couple of month ago and we played AI maps with my friends a lot, then we went online... ofc it was totaly different, but the basics worked, and I was familiar with the heroes and what they can do, so I was able to skipp the part of the learning curve you are in now. And this means I skipped most of the negative commants too.

pnken

10-21-2009, 03:03 PM

This. It's the biggest problem I have, noobs who don't want to listen.
I wouldnt listen to someone with your stats either.
And I constanly flame ppl, not because they are new to the game, but because they dont think.
If ppl suicide chase someone, or go in a fight their gonna lose.. yeah, I will flame them, because this is not noobish, it is just ****ing stupid.
The problem is that 90% of the bad players think they are good players, 5% are too dumb to type/speak english so you cant give them advice. The rest sucks too but is willing to learn (although they are too stupid to execute the things you tell them in most cases)

Tripwyr

10-21-2009, 04:24 PM

If ppl suicide chase someone, or go in a fight their gonna lose.. yeah, I will flame them, because this is not noobish, it is just ****ing stupid.

You are wrong right here. Suicide chasing is something noobs do. A noob doesn't recognize or realize that there are people missing, that the tower will probably kill them, or that they are going to die if they chase. They just haven't yet realized which heroes are able to chase into towers under what circumstances. Most of the time, they've seen other people tower dive, so they think that they can too.

Extreme_Cake

10-21-2009, 04:47 PM

Nobody should be expected to look up several pages of information about a game before they start playing. It should be possible to take the game out of the box, and start playing it.

I think we may have found our crucial difference in opinion. I don't mind people who suffer from inexperience, or who aren't great players, I mind people who haven't even bothered to find out how the game is played in its most basic sense.

JOSHPFANBOY

10-21-2009, 04:57 PM

I have no problems with newer players.. as long as they listen, which is my main concern.

Tripwyr

10-21-2009, 05:30 PM

I think we may have found our crucial difference in opinion. I don't mind people who suffer from inexperience, or who aren't great players, I mind people who haven't even bothered to find out how the game is played in its most basic sense.

If that is your opinion, I can respect that. However, this forum is for new players who don't understand the basic sense of the game.

If you don't feel these people should be playing this game, you are welcome to leave this forum.

Extreme_Cake

10-21-2009, 05:32 PM

I feel that they should read this forum, learn it, and play. I don't mind people who genuinely try to understand and are terrible. I mind people who get the game and start playing it without having a ****ing clue, because that just ruins my experience and that of 3 other people.

Anari

10-21-2009, 05:34 PM

5% are too dumb to type/speak English so you cant give them advice.
Tātad, mums ir stulba, lai uzzinātu, vai tipa angļu valodā. Jūsu angļu nedarbojas anyway.

Hmm... Well the learning of beginners will be hindered by players that just want to win, and will just play to win not just for the enjoyment of playing. I also hate beginners that will not listen but It can help if you attempt to talk to them in a more docile tone.
Yelling at them makes them want to ignore you more.

PS: I love how I was referenced in a majority of TGM posts.

scyld

10-21-2009, 08:06 PM

I have no problems with newer players.. as long as they listen, which is my main concern.

Listen to what? You honestly expect that people in the middle of a competitive game are going to take the time to handhold the noob on their team who might be willing to listen but really is still learning how to play?

HoN was intended to be a replacement as DotA, and as such was to be a DotA replacement. This "Training Grounds" sub-forum is really a good gesture on the part of S2 Games, but really neither Beta nor even the final game are really targeted at new players. HoN can be profitable even without us noobs.

VyyyE

10-21-2009, 08:21 PM

Listen to what? You honestly expect that people in the middle of a competitive game are going to take the time to handhold the noob on their team who might be willing to listen but really is still learning how to play?

HoN was intended to be a replacement as DotA, and as such was to be a DotA replacement. This "Training Grounds" sub-forum is really a good gesture on the part of S2 Games, but really neither Beta nor even the final game are really targeted at new players. HoN can be profitable even without us noobs.

You're stupid. With that out of the way..

Is there a problem with anyone expecting a rook to listen to more experienced players? People sometimes give advice, people sometimes listen to advice. It doesn't have to be handholding, just a hint here and there makes a difference.
And in the end, you're helping your team win.

HoN wants new players as well as veterans. The game is targeted at players who would be interested in playing a DotA type game. It doesn't matter if he played DotA for two years or just found out about HoN.
Saying that it's only targeted at DotA players is downright retarded, sorry. I wouldn't be surprised if S2 comes with another 'good gesture' in the forms of well made tutorials and/or AI maps.

morningrise

10-21-2009, 08:26 PM

Listen to what? You honestly expect that people in the middle of a competitive game are going to take the time to handhold the noob on their team who might be willing to listen but really is still learning how to play?

what is a competitive game to you? if newbies are in a game, i wouldnt consider it competitive...

topic: unfortunately, the thread-opener is right... you shouldnt even dare to enter any game of HoN (or DotA) if you're not flame-hardened... sad but true... at least if you dont have enough friends/ a clan to play inhouses... which is why i am hoping for a decent team (meaning friendly & experienced) for every game anew :(

scyld

10-21-2009, 08:28 PM

You're stupid. With that out of the way..

Is there a problem with anyone expecting a rook to listen to more experienced players? People sometimes give advice, people sometimes listen to advice. It doesn't have to be handholding, just a hint here and there makes a difference.
And in the end, you're helping your team win.

HoN wants new players as well as veterans. The game is targeted at players who would be interested in playing a DotA type game. It doesn't matter if he played DotA for two years or just found out about HoN.
Saying that it's only targeted at DotA players is downright retarded, sorry. I wouldn't be surprised if S2 comes with another 'good gesture' in the forms of well made tutorials and/or AI maps.

I'm a noob myself. I want advice from veteran players. I don't get advice from veteran players. People have more fun flaming and votekicking than they do helping their teammates win.

And saying I'm stupid isn't necessary. Even though I was flat-out wrong in pretending that I know for sure what S2's intentions are, I am correct in saying that even if they attracted a fraction of DotA's community to this game, HoN will still be profitable.

what is a competitive game to you? if newbies are in a game, i wouldnt consider it competitive...

Every game ranked game is treated as a "competitive" game from my experience, no matter whether they are noob only or not.

I have not seen a single practice game. If I host a practice game, no one joins.

I'm only posting on the forums now because I'm waiting for some people I know to log in and hopefully play a game.

Whiteblade

10-21-2009, 08:38 PM

Just to toss in my word I came to this game from Demigod with no DotA experience. It was hard at first and people complained at me for feeding along with not knowing things but it doesn't take long to learn the game.

I maybe not the best player but I can hold my own in a game and sometimes dominate. The community isn't as harsh as people think if you spend maybe an hour or two looking up guides, jump into game and ask a lot of questions. What annoys the people in those games is people not listening and making the same stupid mistakes instead of asking questions and trying to get better.

This is a game for people who like a challenge and can take some abuse, not in the community but until you learn map awareness death will come swiftly.

VyyyE

10-21-2009, 09:17 PM

I'm a noob myself. I want advice from veteran players. I don't get advice from veteran players. People have more fun flaming and votekicking than they do helping their teammates win.
It's how a lot of folks in this community are unfortunately, but once you get past the 1550~ threshold it does get marginally better. You'll just have to get used to idiots, they'll always be there...

And saying I'm stupid isn't necessary. True, apologies. Thought your underlying message in your post was "I'm a pro and s2 doesn't care about new players". See what the community did to me :p

Every game ranked game is treated as a "competitive" game from my experience, no matter whether they are noob only or not.

A lot of folks are stat-whores, you don't have to be one. If a game is life and death to them, that's their problem. Play to win, sure, but more importantly play to have fun.

I have not seen a single practice game. If I host a practice game, no one joins.
Practice games are single player games where you can try out different hero combinations/item builds or simply do stupid things. You can spawn any hero, be any level, have every item in game, create an army of Kongors... But yeah, there's no multiplayer practice mode. I think what you're looking for can be found in one of the stickies, have a look.

Reonhato

10-21-2009, 09:33 PM

Best tip: when people try to help you, then listen to them.

the problem with this is most of the so called "pros" that i come across in games trying to help noobs are just terrible teachers who not only go about it the wrong way but teach them bad habits

HIDEous1

10-21-2009, 09:42 PM

ChunkyWill

10-21-2009, 09:59 PM

General advice higher rated players give to noobs: stop sucking so bad.

Serious piece of advice- don't try to save your team unless you are certain you can do it, running back to stun 1 of the 3 guys chasing your teammate is going to give them 2 kills instead of 1.

thewishkah

10-21-2009, 10:16 PM

I am a noob that never played DotA before. Fell to about 1250 before rising to 1400 right now with a K : D of 0.9.

My biggest problem is my own team shouting at me instead of instructing me - one game I was going 4:2:5 with Tempest and a 1600 player began shouting/cussing at me for 10~ minutes for not getting a portal key and messing up a gank due to that. It took me completely out of focus, utterly demoralized me, and I ended up leaving after he wouldn't shut up. Was 4:7:5 at that point. It was a Noob only game.

I find it weird my worst enemies are sometimes my own team.

dw. noob only they should expect people to be a little rough, its their own problem for trying to pubstomp to farm psr.

this was a common occurance in dota, 1 missclick or mistake -> team rage.

i find when i do dumb **** to just be like "omfg im an idiot" and they just laugh and get over it.

while you're learning you just gotta suck it up unfortunately though.

`Assist

10-21-2009, 10:53 PM

sam_jackson

10-22-2009, 12:00 AM

I wouldnt listen to someone with your stats either.
And I constanly flame ppl, not because they are new to the game, but because they dont think.
If ppl suicide chase someone, or go in a fight their gonna lose.. yeah, I will flame them, because this is not noobish, it is just ****ing stupid.
The problem is that 90% of the bad players think they are good players, 5% are too dumb to type/speak english so you cant give them advice. The rest sucks too but is willing to learn (although they are too stupid to execute the things you tell them in most cases)

Oh I admit I sucked in the beginning, I never played DoTA, but because I didn't want to change my player name and use one of my invites, I stuck with my sucky stats.

Now I play at a little above 1:1 K:D, but the game doesn't show that. One reason I am glad they are resetting stats.

Hydro47

10-22-2009, 12:49 AM

I still suck. I was a complete newb though when I started, being that I never played dota or wow or any similar game really. That being said, being a RTS player helps a lot in that you control one char and you don't die. I mean, playing Age Of Empires 3 on a semi competitive scale helped for sure. That being said, I got flamed hella my first match despite the fact that I went 2-6-3 and was only 2 levels behind for most of the game. I took a lot of health potions and bad items given, however I tried to listen to everything that was said. This also being said, I try to help players when I can and still am getting my own skills up to par being that I'm still around 1300 but with stats of the average 1520'er. I have figured out that playing as a support player isn't really helpful to your k/d but it still gives some nice perks. The community here is bad. This being said you can learn a lot easily and you get into the curve within 12 games. That ALSO being said, that isn't enough for many people who just want to play. If I gave this to a friend they would quit after 3 or 4 games if they had no idea of what to do because of the steep steep learning curve. I have to thank the semi pro AOE3 as very helpful to some basic strategy within game that prevented me from dieing repeatedly like some people I've seen however. http://viper.sanctuary-network.com/fp10t/fp10_bracket_c.htm I was Hydro86 if anyone wants to check out how I was at AOE3.... that was my best showing though.

DemonSouL

10-22-2009, 12:51 AM

I'm one of the people that prompt votekicks. I never express rage against noobs. I tell them what to do and how to avoid dieing. When they don't listen, I simply ask for a votekick as to not flame them. I pretty much always find 1550+/1600+/1650+ games. And that's the reason I find it frustrating. The reason I go for games with a psr limit is so that there are no clueless players (I know the 1600-1800 psr area are just mediocre players, but I'm hoping they aren't completely clueless), but there still are.

People that join noob only games or 1400- games and complain about people sucking are just sad. But the community for a game like DoTA will always be like this. The difference in skill between even a very bad player with experience and a newbie is still gigantic simply because there is so much going on in this game. Another problem is the PSR/stat tracking. If they were to implement a mode that doesn't track stats or PSR, then I'm sure people in those games will not be as hostile.

Oh I admit I sucked in the beginning, I never played DoTA, but because I didn't want to change my player name and use one of my invites, I stuck with my sucky stats.

Now I play at a little above 1:1 K:D, but the game doesn't show that. One reason I am glad they are resetting stats.

KD shows nothing really. One of my friends is just terribad. He has a 1.8 kdr now, but that is simply because he's playing with people around his own psr which is around 1300. Being better than people that are bad, does not make you good. That is the largest reason a lot of noobs think they are pro. People need to stay humble especially people that haven't seen competitive levels. Some people think that getting 1800 psr with a good K/D/A means they are pro. That's completely false. I have a 1800 psr myself, and I KNOW that I'm not a good player. I am decent and know my way around HoN, but I can easily say I'm no where near pro.

calm

10-22-2009, 01:04 AM

hon is full of people who like to tell noobs what to do but just start ordering them around and don't understand how to instruct sympathetically, then are confused and rage when nobody listens to them.

djknitex

10-22-2009, 01:33 AM

Yeah I had that problem too, I joined a game made for new players, and they told me to leave, cause I didn't know what I was doing, so I was like "What the crap?"

but I met some cool people that showed me the ropes.

crayze

10-22-2009, 01:43 AM

The community is not harsh to new players, the community is harsh to new players who think they are right. If you are new, assume that anything anyone tells you is gospel truth. If they say you messed up, you did. If they tell you to get some item, get it. If they tell you how to skill up, skill that way. Very few people will rage at you if you take the advice and aren't retarded (aka: if someone says, "go back, they are coming to gank" and you stay, you are retarded).

Personally: I do NOT get angry if you're new. I will get angry, however, if you're new and you think you're right, or you defend your actions. If you don't know what the hell you're doing, let everyone know and be clear that you will take any advice they give you.

So for a new player:

Step 1: Learn HoN terms.
Step 2: Listen to what everyone else tells you like a good slave.
Step 3: Once you gain enough skill and experience, you can start moving into higher PSR minimum games, but at the start do not join anything but noobs only games.

calm

10-22-2009, 05:12 AM

HIDEous1

10-22-2009, 07:30 AM

thewishkah: True enough.

Tailehuy: My assists are 400~ higher than my kills. I would have gotten a portal key if I had money. This was 15 minutes into the game.

HoN is a great game but if the community is not made more newbie friendly it'll end up like a lot of other great, hardcore, games - bellyup with a core community of 2000. Or in other words unprofitable and abandoned by the devs.

MastrshakeXI

10-22-2009, 03:40 PM

I am a noob that never played DotA before. Fell to about 1250 before rising to 1400 right now with a K : D of 0.9.

My biggest problem is my own team shouting at me instead of instructing me - one game I was going 4:2:5 with Tempest and a 1600 player began shouting/cussing at me for 10~ minutes for not getting a portal key and messing up a gank due to that. It took me completely out of focus, utterly demoralized me, and I ended up leaving after he wouldn't shut up. Was 4:7:5 at that point. It was a Noob only game.

I find it weird my worst enemies are sometimes my own team.

I had a similar problem. I never played DoTA before but I have played LoL beta for a few months before HoN. My experience with LoL was rough but enjoyable and I learned a lot from just practice matches. So when I came to HoN I felt somewhat confidendent in my abilities (laning, last hits, etc)....GOD was I wrong. I knew coming in that HoN was different but getting my ass whopped in a 'noobs' only game then getting cursed at by my own team mate is really discouraging. I mean really, If I join a noobs only game and my team mate is cussing me out calling me a stupid noob, I just don't see the reasoning behind it. ITS A NOOBS ONLY GAME! If you don't wnat to play with new people why the **** did you join or host a noobs only game!?

Anari

10-22-2009, 03:46 PM

ITS A NOOBS ONLY GAME! If you don't wnat to play with new people why the **** did you join or host a noobs only game!?

The reason why they join a noob only game is to win. "Good" Players that think they know everything and are not open to variations to heroes go and play noob games to have a quick easy stat up. And when they do not get it or suck entirely they flame their team blaming them.

Just leave the sad lonely players alone :(

MastrshakeXI

10-22-2009, 03:58 PM

So basically you're saying new players aren't safe in noob only games.

TreeHorse

10-22-2009, 04:06 PM

So basically you're saying new players aren't safe in noob only games.

Pretty much. Unless you check the stats of everyone there, you run a decent risk of getting stomped by some malicious cocksucker looking to pad his KDR.

MastrshakeXI

10-22-2009, 04:14 PM

Other than going by the PSR is there any other way to check stats?

Jack_Mehoff1

10-22-2009, 04:16 PM

This. It's the biggest problem I have, noobs who don't want to listen.

Says the scrub with 300 kills 600 deaths and 900 psr. They aren't listening to you because you're a ****ing terrible player. hahaha

Cessna

10-22-2009, 04:16 PM

So basically you're saying new players aren't safe in noob only games.

These games usually have people new to HoN in them. I joined these games in the beginning to get the feel of HoN. Since I had played DotA I had no big problems learning the game - thus I got better and better psr.

People who are around or below 1500 may or may not be noobs, but say if a 1900 guy joins a noob only game with players around 13-1500, then he ends up having the lowest ranked PSR people in his team - which may or may not mean that he has the worst players in his team.

I try to join games that fit my psr, like 1600+ or 1650+. The best thing is for everyone to do this, but many people have friends who are not at the same stage as they are - thus they have to move down some brackets.

As for the noob-friendliness, I know both how frustrating it is to be the noob - and how it is to be the better player. There are some heroes I am utterly crap with and some I master better. You should try to ignore people who flame you and just counter them by being humble. 'Yes I am a beginner' or 'Since you know my hero would you mind helping me?'.

I had a 1600+ game yesterday where someone picked Jeraziah. He started with gloves of swiftness (or w/e the 15% attack speed is called) and he proceeded with buying 2 more of them. When I told him those were incredibly stupid items to have - he did neither respond nor ask for help. You do not often see that in 1600+ games.

We ended up kicking him after he died for the 5th time in the same lane at the same place.

Basically: Watch when people ping the map. Having played lots of DotA I feel that I some times have a sense of when people are in danger. You see enemies on the minimap? Well you better stop pushing that lane alone. Many new players do not watch the minimap and thus do not have much map awareness.

SolarFlare22

10-22-2009, 04:20 PM

Everyone is a noob at some point... I remember when I started playing dota and was absolutely terrible, no idea of how to play, where to be, and what items to get...

However, after playing for some time and meeting new people in game, I have become quite skilled at it, and consider it as one of the most satisfying games I've ever played, especially when the other 9 people in the game are equally skilled (which seems to happen much more often since playing with friends and joining the same clan that was ported over from dota).

Your idea of joining a clan is great, if you can do that, try to get some in-house clan matches going without recording stats (this way, there's no pressure for you to do amazing, and you can learn from the others). Best of all, no one will ***** at you if you do poorly.

TreeHorse

10-22-2009, 04:24 PM

Other than going by the PSR is there any other way to check stats?

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=12193

Install that UI mod. Check the K/D/A & KDR of each person as well as their average EXP.
For someone with high creep score (100+/10+) and high K/D/A, 550+ average exp denotes a strong EM player, and 400+ denotes a strong non-EM player.

For example mine is something like this:
1.6 Kill-Death ratio
K:6.3 / D:4.0 / A:9.2

452 EXP/Min average
Average creep kills: 121
Average denies: 8

The EXP is a bit high since I played some EM on this account.

MastrshakeXI

10-22-2009, 04:29 PM

Yea I get the whole map awareness idea. It was basically the same in LoL. However in LoL the map is much smaller and every heroes' icon on the mini map is their portrait so you know exactly who is where at all times. unless of course they're not in LOS.

MastrshakeXI

10-22-2009, 04:30 PM

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=12193

Install that UI mod. Check the K/D/A & KDR of each person as well as their average EXP.
For someone with high creep score (100+/10+) and high K/D/A, 550+ average exp denotes a strong EM player, and 400+ denotes a strong non-EM player.

For example mine is something like this:
1.6 Kill-Death ratio
K:6.3 / D:4.0 / A:9.2

452 EXP/Min average
Average creep kills: 121
Average denies: 8

The EXP is a bit high since I played some EM on this account.

thx for the mod.