1v1 Metagame items/heroes

[aLeF1]

So it's 1v1 , What item are very strong against what hero? What hero *counter* what hero?

Exemple:

Succubus: Nullstone

[Ubuntu]

Any hero setup when it's going to be auto attack vs auto = lifesteal. The more the merrier. Crazed FTW

[SteveNick]

Nullstone doesn't hardcounter Succubus, it just requires that you initiate with smitten.

[aLeF1]

Nullstone doesn't hardcounter Succubus, it just requires that you initiate with smitten.

What would you build against succ ?

[Heridshire]

It depends a lot on each hero you are using. If it is a DPSer/carry, you should go Shrunken Head to get immune to her spells while you hit her. But you also need something to chase, like a item or skill that provides slow or stuns. Think of Frostwolf's Skull. The reason for that is if you turn on SH Succubus will just run, wait the effect to wear off, and use all her spells.

To be honest, I'm not used to think in this scenario. Played 1vs1 just a bunch of times. I'm not really a fan. But theoretically there are lots of ways to win, like picking a hero with some AOE skill, like Valkirie, and push the lane as much as you can. Just buy some survivability to be sure you'll not die from her combo.

[TreeHorse]

What would you build against succ ?

What hero are you picking vs succubus?

Honestly my favorite is chronos with Geometers. Pretty hard to beat.

[Tripwyr]

Against Succubus, you should be building a Shrunken head, then a Barrier Idol/Headdress and a Heart. Succubus' strength comes from her ability to kill you in a chain of high-damage crowd control. If her chain doesn't kill you, you have free reign to do whatever you want.

I'm almost tempted to recommend getting Barrier Idol/Headdress and Heart before Shrunken head, simply because Shrunken head can be waited out, while extra health and magic armor can't.

[Volshok]

What would you build against succ ?

Just to get this out of my system; Please for the love of god don't play 1v1s, they beat out -em for sheer retardation of game play and breed disgustingly bad habits in players. Please, Please, Please play non -em 5v5. With said;


Succubus specializes in small scale encounters (1v1, 1v2), and is extremely good in such a setting. A single item does not "counter her", as both Shrunken Head (Ult is Superior Magic, you are still held while Puzzle Box destroys you) and Nullstone (Start with Smitten) don't really stop her. Hero wise, my suggestion would be blood hunter.

[Tripwyr]

Just to get this out of my system; Please for the love of god don't play 1v1s, they beat out -em for sheer retardation of game play and breed disgustingly bad habits in players. Please, Please, Please play non -em 5v5. With said;


Succubus specializes in small scale encounters (1v1, 1v2), and is extremely good in such a setting. A single item does not "counter her", as both Shrunken Head (Ult is Superior Magic, you are still held while Puzzle Box destroys you) and Nullstone (Start with Smitten) don't really stop her. Hero wise, my suggestion would be blood hunter.

1v1 is a very enjoyable environment, and I'm shocked to see someone be so hostile toward it.

1v1 is excellent for practice and training because it forces you to learn how to counter various situations, which is not something 5v5 does well.

While I agree with you about EM, don't throw around such radical accusations so willingly. 1v1 is a perfectly viable environment, and can be as enjoyable if not more enjoyable than other brackets.

EDIT: Just to give you an example: I was playing a 1v1 mirrored hero match with Pharoah on both sides against our very own forum moderator DenyTheTruth. The game started out badly, and I had chosen to go the route of spells, which Deny quickly countered with a barrier idol. His lifesteal combined with his Barrier Idol prevented me from damaging him, and he managed to score a few kills. Eventually despite all my efforts, he pushed down my mid barracks and one of my bottom barracks, at around the same time I completed a Runed Axe.

Now if there's one thing I'm good at, it's defending my base. I managed to hold out for a solid 20-30 minutes against super creeps, while I built a Symbol of Rage and a Daemonic Breastplate. Since I had creeps constantly pushing, I had to move very little to farm, and farmed much more quickly than Denny. He thought it was over, so he started messing around and built a SotM. This was a big mistake, and I knew I could kill him now. I started pushing forward in mid, bit by bit, and eventually he needed to start defending. I killed him. This is where the game turned around as I took mid barracks while I lost the second bottom barracks. However, now I only had one lane to defend.

You can see where this is going, and eventually I won with about 6 kills on him. Had we not played this 1v1, Denny would have never learned this lesson. The game isn't over until it's over. Like I said before, don't dismiss 1v1 so willingly. A strong balance between 1v1 and 5v5 is much more effective than doing only 5v5 forever.

[Volshok]

1v1 is a very enjoyable environment, and I'm shocked to see someone be so hostile toward it.

1v1 is excellent for practice and training because it forces you to learn how to counter various situations, which is not something 5v5 does well.

While I agree with you about EM, don't throw around such radical accusations so willingly. 1v1 is a perfectly viable environment, and can be as enjoyable if not more enjoyable than other brackets.


Regrettably personal experience trumps your counter argument at this time. I've seen far, far too many players (including friends) come from a 1v1 background and have zero concept of Map awareness, lane control, ganking, warding, etc.

While I will agree that a 1v1 could help you work on last hitting/denying, you are just as capable of mastering that in practice mode. Hero harass is another argument is probably the best counter point I can see, but the majority of heroes you see 1v1 aren't going to be used in a similar setting in real games.


EDIT after seeing your EDIT: I've learned that lesson in 5v5 games just as brutally as Deny did in your game. However in 5v5's it's even more important imo. "Pest finished his BKB we need to push before Nighthound finishes his Nullfire!" I would say that anything you can potentially learn in a 1v1 is just as easily learned in a 5v5 (If not reinforced harder).

[Heridshire]

I think Volshok is, as I am, a "purist". We think DotA and for extension HoN is meant to be played only 5vs5 non-EM. That is because the whole game is built around this specifics. The map, the vast array of heroes and items, the concepts of map awareness and lane control, jungling, etc. Just too many things that doesn't apply when you play anything other than that. I, as a personal choice, simply do not play anything else.

However, I agree that certain skills may be more optimally acquired through 1vs1, such as last hitting and maybe learning the mechanics of some heroes, when you don't want to try it in pratice neither in "important" 5vs5 games. Maybe to try a few strategies too.

But it's hard to say that that "A strong balance between 1v1 and 5v5 is much more effective than doing only 5v5 forever." That's because there are only a few situations where you could improve from 1vs1. And it really could provide certain conditions that make you develop some real, real bad habits.

[aLeF1]

I think 1v1 improves basic skills and knowledge of the game, litle details that still count, for someone like me who never played dota.

Even if it's not taken seriously, since it can be played and enjoyed, we can discuss about it. Not like i asked: * Make a 1v1 league/ladder Now ffs 11!1!1!*

[BIGWANG]

What hero are you picking vs succubus?

Honestly my favorite is chronos with Geometers. Pretty hard to beat.

Legionnaire destroys melee agi carries in 1v1. Assuming he doesn't wait until late game when they are farmed.

If Legionnaire pushes early there is nothing a melee carry can do against him.

I also like using warbeast for 1v1 because your dogs can tank towers, allowing you to damage towers more often. He is also very effective in killing people with enough $$, something not too hard to get in 1v1.

[_Archangel_]

Pollywog is pretty strong in 1v1. Succubus's problem is that she can't push for sh*t.

[Diffusion]

Wildsoul is strong versus succ.

[RUSty_]

due to the 1v1 gold axe will be tanky enough to tank succy and creeps alone and will push succy away from your own creeps which are bashing her tower.

[Tripwyr]

Wildsoul is strong versus succ.

That depends on Wildsoul's build. If he buffs himself instead of his bear, he will kill her easily. However, if he buffs his bear, she can just CC it while killing him.

[Isin]

1v1 isn't a metagame, lol.


That depends on Wildsoul's build. If he buffs himself instead of his bear, he will kill her easily. However, if he buffs his bear, she can just CC it while killing him.

Succubus' ult doesn't do jack **** in a 1v1 with all that extra gold, and she has no other real damage dealing capabilities other than her little nuke.

[JewishNinja]

wildsoul wins 1v1 games. Have a tad of micro, no heroes can do anything against it.

[Tripwyr]

wildsoul wins 1v1 games. Have a tad of micro, no heroes can do anything against it.

Wrong. Puppet master beats Wildsoul. All heroes have a counter 1v1.