PDA

View Full Version : Martyr's Guardian Angel and Its Effect on EHP



MacroHard
09-26-2011, 06:38 PM
The Basics


Passively reduces the damage Martyr takes by 0.2 / 0.3 / 0.4 / 0.5 times the percentage of Health he is missing.

This simply means that the lower Martyr’s health, the less damage he takes. Think of it like Armadon’s ability, but with the damage reduction scaling from 0% to 20/30/40/50% depending on Martyr’s current health.

Damage Reduction and Damage Factor Formulae

Damage Reduction, DR =

L1: 0.2*(1 - x)
L2: 0.3*(1 - x)
L3: 0.4*(1 - x)
L4: 0.5*(1 - x)

Damage Factor, DF =

L1: 0.2x + 0.8
L1: 0.3x + 0.7
L1: 0.4x + 0.6
L1: 0.5x + 0.5

Damage reduction is post-mitigation

All incoming damage is first reduced by any shield (Accursed, MoA, Chipper), armor, magic armor, and blocking. Any damage that is left over is then reduced by Guardian Angel.
The damage reduction works for damage received from casting Guardian Angel on an ally.
The damage reduction does not work for direct HP removal (such as activating Sacrificial Lamb or Blood Chalice).


Effective Health Impact (Ideal Case)


Effective Health Points (EHP) is how much unmitigated damage a hero can withstand. For most cases, EHP is an effective measurement of how well a hero can survive physical damage. EHP is determined by multiplying health by a mitigation factor calculated from armor, blocking, and evasion. For more on EHP see this thread: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=337020

Since Martyr’s passive ability reduces damage after mitigation, his EHP gains an additional factor that stacks with all other factors.
This additional factor is =


L1: 1.116 (equivalent to 10.3% damage reduction)
L2: 1.189 (equivalent to 15.9% damage reduction)
L3: 1.277 (equivalent to 21.7% damage reduction)
L4: 1.386 (equivalent to 27.9% damage reduction)

...which means Martyr with level 4 Guardian Angel will survive approximately 38% longer than another hero with identical health, armor, magic armor, blocking, and evasion. Please be aware that this factor is the ideal case where he receives an infinite number of attacks of very small incidents of damage.

These factors are calculated by integrating EHP from X=0 to X=1:
EHP = 1 / DF

Level 1:
http://i52.tinypic.com/5kehie.png
EHP = 1 / (0.2*(x + 4))dx, from x = 0 to x = 1
= 5*ln(x + 4)|
= 5*ln(5) - 5*ln(4)
= 1.116

Level 2:
http://i55.tinypic.com/33atahy.png
EHP = 1 / (0.3*(x +7/3))dx, from x = 0 to x = 1
= 10/3*ln(x + 7/3)|
= 10/3*ln(10/3) - 10/3*ln(7/3)
= 1.189

Level 3:
http://i51.tinypic.com/345y360.png
EHP = 1 / (0.4*(x + 1.5))dx, from x = 0 to x = 1
= 2.5*ln(x + 1.5)|
= 2.5*ln(2.5) - 2.5*ln(1.5)
= 1.277

Level 4:
http://i53.tinypic.com/9gztl1.png
EHP = 1 / (0.5*(x +1))dx, from x = 0 to x = 1
= 2*ln(x + 1)|
= 2*ln(2) - 2*ln(1)
= 1.386


Effective Health Impact (Specific Case)


Now, effective EHP for infinitely small attacks is all well and good, but how useful is Guardian Angel against real attacks? Obviously the magnitude of the attacks has a huge effect; if you get one shotted by a level 5 codex hellflower spellshards from full health your damage reduction was zero.

Given that each attack does X% of your total health, what is the effective EHP that Guardian Angel provides? What is the equivalent Damage Reduction?

Solving a general case for this thru analytic means is extremely difficult and time consuming. The below graphs were generated by computation methods only (quite literally subtracting damage in finite increments until death). As such there are no overall formulas to look at. Sorry. =X

EHP
http://i42.tinypic.com/6fsfn6.png

DR
http://i39.tinypic.com/bdv2f4.png

Example:
You have 1500 health and Level 4 Guardian Angel. You get hit by attacks that average 120 damage (8% of total health) after other forms of damage reduction (armor, etc).
Guardian Angel will provide an EHP boost of 36% (26.5% damage reduction) against such attacks.
It will take 17 attacks of 120 damage to kill you (1500 * 1.36 = 2040 EHP; 2040 / 120 = 17).


Commutativity of Guardian Angel


All sources of damage mitigated by Guardian Angel are commutative. In other words, the order in which damage received has no effect on Martyr’s overall survivability.

For example, a 800 damage nuke with spellshards followed by a 150 damage attack will leave Martyr with the exact same health as it would had he been hit by the smaller attack first. Furthermore, three different attacks of damage A B and C will do the same damage whether the order done is ABC, ACB, BAC, BCA, CAB, or CBA. This can be extrapolated to any number of attacks of any amount of damage (provided that Martyr can survive all attacks).

When playing against Martyr, do not worry about throwing big nukes first or saving them until the end. It really makes no difference.

Specific Example
2200 current HP. 2500 max HP. 800 damage attack followed by 150 damage attack.
Attack 1: 2200 - 800*[0.5*(2200/2500)+0.5] = 1448 HP remaining
Attack 2: 1448 - 150*[0.5*(1448/2500)+0.5] = 1329.56 HP remaining

2200 HP. 150 damage attack followed by 800 damage attack.
Attack 1: 2200 - 150*[0.5*(2200/2500)+0.5] = 2059 HP remaining
Attack 2: 2059 - 800*[0.5*(2059/2500)+0.5] = 1329.56 HP remaining
General Proof (Two Attacks)
”X” current HP, in percent of max. Max HP = 1 (100%). “A” damage attack followed by “B” damage attack.
Attack 1: X - A*(0.5*X+0.5) = (X - 0.5AX - 0.5A) HP remaining
Attack 2: (X - 0.5AX - 0.5A) - B*[0.5*( X - 0.5AX - 0.5A) +0.5]
= X - 0.5AX - 0.5A - 0.5BX + 0.5ABX + 0.5AB - 0.5B
= X - 0.5A - 0.5B - 0.5AX – 0.5BX + 0.5AB + 0.5ABX

”X” current HP, in percent of max. Max HP = 1 (100%). “B” damage attack followed by “A” damage attack.
Attack 1: X - B*(0.5*X+0.5) = (X - 0.5BX - 0.5B) HP remaining
Attack 2: (X - 0.5BX - 0.5B) - A*[0.5*( X - 0.5BX - 0.5B) +0.5]
= X - 0.5BX - 0.5B - 0.5AX + 0.5BAX + 0.5BB - 0.5A
= X - 0.5A - 0.5B - 0.5AX – 0.5BX + 0.5AB + 0.5ABX

The same method can be applied to the other damage reduction factors of 0.2, 0.3, and 0.4 with the same results
General Proof (Arbitrary Number of Attacks)
Since A>B is the same as B>A…
A>B>C>D>E is the same as B>A>C>D>E

Since A>C is the same as C>A…
B>A>C>D>E is the same as B>C>A>D>E

This swap can be completed an infinite number of times with adjacent sets to get any pre-prescribed order of attacks.

Without loss of generality,
The order of objects for any permutation of infinite objects, when the order of any two objects is arbitrary, is itself arbitrary.


TL;DR Summary


Under ideal circumstances, Guardian Angel provides...
an average damage reduction of 10.3% / 15.9 % / 21.7% / 27.9%
the equivalent of increasing your health by 11.6% / 18.9% / 27.7% / 38.6%

Furthermore, Guardian Angel has the following property...
the order of attacks you receive does not matter, at all, as long as you survive the attacks


FAQ


Specific question or clarifications that are brought up will be addressed here.

SmurfinBird
09-26-2011, 08:42 PM
On the edge of my seat.

Kripke
09-26-2011, 09:39 PM
I always love peaking at your threads. They remind me that not every HoN player has mental deficiencies <3

MacroHard
09-26-2011, 10:56 PM
The coolest part, for me, is how the order of attacks make zero difference. Intuitively you'd think that bigger nukes up front (when he has no damage reduction) would be most efficient, but it's not the case.

Groomi
10-16-2011, 07:53 AM
The coolest part, for me, is how the order of attacks make zero difference. Intuitively you'd think that bigger nukes up front (when he has no damage reduction) would be most efficient, but it's not the case.

Should he not receive more reduction from the first attack first? As the big nuke gets the additional % reduction?

And does the passive procc when you guard someone (seems like this according to your math).

KhaZmO
02-21-2012, 07:16 PM
perhaps someone can help me here ... :)
does armor/magic armor reduce the damage martyr receives from guardian angel ?
i guess not, but would be nice to know for sure
thx in regards ^_^

MacroHard
02-21-2012, 07:35 PM
Wow talk about a necro.

Guardian Angel reduces damage by a percentage. Armor/Magic Armor also reduces damage by a percentage.

For example, a Martyr at 25% health (37.5% reduction) with 5.5 magic armor (24.8% reduction) will have a total of 1-(1-.375)(1-.248) = 53% reduction against magic damage.

SomethingOdd
02-22-2012, 12:23 AM
Macro, you are my Machanics god.

FiskOgHon
02-22-2012, 09:27 AM
Wow talk about a necro.

Guardian Angel reduces damage by a percentage. Armor/Magic Armor also reduces damage by a percentage.

For example, a Martyr at 25% health (37.5% reduction) with 5.5 magic armor (24.8% reduction) will have a total of 1-(1-.375)(1-.248) = 53% reduction against magic damage.
Don't think that's what he meant.

Pretty sure he means damage you take yourself from the active portion, when casting the spell on a teammate.

FiskOgHon
02-22-2012, 09:32 AM
In reply to my own post and the question asked: Damage from the active part of Guardian angel has no effect type and therefor won't be reduced by neither armor or magic armor.

MacroHard
02-22-2012, 12:25 PM
Example:

Allied devourer has 19.5 magic armor (53.9% reduction).
Allied devourer has guardian angel on (50% redirect).
Martyr has 5.5 magic armor (24.8% reduction).
Martyr is at 25% health (37.5% reduction).

if devourer is hit by 800 magic damage...
Devourer takes 800*(1-.539)*(1-.500) = 184 dmg
Martyr takes 800*(1-.539)*(1-.500)*(1-.375) = 115 dmg

Martyr's own magic armor is not taken into account.

SomethingOdd
02-22-2012, 04:33 PM
Macro, you should make heroes for S2.

SuperCommand
02-23-2012, 06:05 AM
Example:

Allied devourer has 19.5 magic armor (53.9% reduction).
Allied devourer has guardian angel on (50% redirect).
Martyr has 5.5 magic armor (24.8% reduction).
Martyr is at 25% health (37.5% reduction).

if devourer is hit by 800 magic damage...
Devourer takes 800*(1-.539)*(1-.500) = 184 dmg
Martyr takes 800*(1.539)*(1-.500)*(1-.375) = 152 dmg

Martyr's own magic armor is not taken into account.

What? Shouldn't it be:

Martyr takes 800*(1-.539)*(1-.500)*(1-.375) = 115 dmg ?

MacroHard
02-23-2012, 11:05 AM
What? Shouldn't it be:

Martyr takes 800*(1-.539)*(1-.500)*(1-.375) = 115 dmg ?

Yes. I have no idea what got into me there.

falcokun
02-24-2012, 07:10 PM
I love this threads. Because i can understand it =P,

The factor that the order doesnt matter makes me feel more comfortable to go and go to the front.

The fact that its just a 40% bonus to effective health made me amazed. It's really a lot, more if you can manage to survive with fog.

XewLie
02-25-2012, 09:33 PM
martyr is honestly such a weird hero

SuperCommand
02-26-2012, 03:10 AM
I love this threads. Because i can understand it =P,

The factor that the order doesnt matter makes me feel more comfortable to go and go to the front.

The fact that its just a 40% bonus to effective health made me amazed. It's really a lot, more if you can manage to survive with fog.

Actually it isn't a 40% HP increase. That's only if the damage instances are REALLY REALLY small(And thus plentiful). Perhaps Macro can shed some light on this.

Assume that a full HP Martyr takes N instances of equal damage and that they are (just) enough to kill him. How much damage reduction did he actually have?

Example: Martyr takes 1 hit and dies. His damage reduction in this case is 0.

SomethingOdd
02-26-2012, 04:24 AM
Good job SuperCommand, you've just stolen the rest of macro's life.
We're gonna need a graph

MacroHard
02-26-2012, 06:06 PM
Actually it isn't a 40% HP increase. That's only if the damage instances are REALLY REALLY small(And thus plentiful). Perhaps Macro can shed some light on this.

Assume that a full HP Martyr takes N instances of equal damage and that they are (just) enough to kill him. How much damage reduction did he actually have?

Example: Martyr takes 1 hit and dies. His damage reduction in this case is 0.

Challenge accepted. Stay tuned.

MacroHard
02-27-2012, 03:25 PM
OP updated to SuperCommand's scenario.