Hellfire Amulet (Uses Icon of the Goddess + Void Talisman = Perfect for Lategame Nukers)

[NoobishNoob]

Answering S2's call for the following items which are lacking in other uses for new items:
- Void Talisman
- Icon of the Goddess

:D

----------------------------------

HELLFIRE AMULET




Forged at the depths of hell and imbued with a fire spirit. It can envelop the bearer with protective flames while increasing the spell power of its bearer by a hundred fold but at the same time, the flames consume more of its energy.

-------------------------

Requires:


http://i38.tinypic.com/nnml3n.jpg
Void Talisman
(1500)
+7 to Attributes, 4 second Physical Immunity ability

+

http://i33.tinypic.com/2w6fcjn.jpg
Icon of the Goddess
(3300)
+450 Health, +400 Mana, +1 HP Regeneration, +10% Mana Regeneration

=

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=21529
Hellfire Amulet
(4800)



Gives:

+ 450 Health
+ 400 Mana
+ 7 Attributes
Active Ability: Engulfing Flames


Engulfing Flames Effect

Cooldown: 25

----------------------------

Immunity to Physical Attacks

+35% Spell Damage
+35% Spell Manacost

Lasts for 4 seconds

<Not applicable for Passive Abilities and Spells having no manacost>

<Doesn't stack with Shrunken Head, meaning, only one can be active at a time, not both>

----------------------------


EXPLANATION:

A late game item suited for nuker heroes who has to rely on their spells to deal damage, but as the game goes on, their spells get weaker and weaker as their enemies get more beefy in health, namely, strength and carry heroes which are now capable in killing our fragile nukers easily.

What this item does is: Keeps the 4 second physical immunity against auto-attackers. But during the duration, users will be able to dish out tremendous damage from their spells which are increased by 30%, but at the same time, increasing their mana costs by 30% also.

ANIMATION:

The animation would be similar to Void Talisman's animation where glowing green outlines around your hero, but instead of green, it will now be orange to red, symbolizing fire.

MATHCRAFTS:


Blazing Strike

450/675/950/1150 Damage x 1.35 (From Hellfire Amulet) = 607.5/911.25/1282.5/1552.5 Total Damage

607.5/911.25/1282.5/1552.5 Damage x 0.75 <Hero Resistance> = 455.63/683.44.25/961.88/1164.38 Total Damage to Heroes


Manacost: 280/420/680/640 x 1.35 = 378/567/918/864 Total Manacost

Dealing damage to heroes with the ability on shows that it deals pure damage, pretty powerful already, but comes with a huge manacost, even one combo will drain your entire mana pool already, but like I said, its for late game purposes, buying this rather early serves as a challenge for users to manage their mana pool and get some decent mana regen items which this item doesn't have.

Another purpose to buy this item is to weaken heroes who gets that annoying Headdress and Barrier Idol early against your only source of damage: Magic, with this item activated, it makes their item almost useless since they will now receive more damage while the duration is on, sadly, it is temporarily short, users need to use this item at a precise timing to execute their spells effectively plus careless usage of spells will make the entire item useless and a quick depletion of your mana pool.





CHANGELOG:

10/19/2009 - Created Hellfire Amulet
10/24/09 - As of 1.50 patch, Void Talisman no longer reduces magic armor.
11/10/09 - Removed Recipe due to popular demand, so the total cost of the item will be from 5400 to 4800
Added that Shrunken Head and Hellfire Amulet wouldn't stack with each other (Thanks to Sclampf (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=298020), [NrB]jgreen464 (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=416745))
11/16/09 - Returned the original spell boost instead of true damage due to possible imbalances and abuses from certain heroes.

[Killroy]

Late game item with stats/hp/mana. Icon of the goddess needs another build and this is actually quite nice especially since void talisman sees very little light in the current games. The extra damage is offset by extra mana cost and makes late game nuker a bit more powerfull. 4 secs is just enough to get all spells off. I definitely like the concept. T-up.

[Santoriin]

awesome item idea, uses an underused item, and forks a item tree build, i like it

[NoobishNoob]

Sweet, at first I thought no one would like this :D


Thanks for the support everyone, let's give our favorite nukers some love.

[Hueter]

i like the idea, its kind of a defence version of harkon's blade, since im not a fan of buying super expensiv offensiv int items for caster heroes, i would buy this on certain heroes!

[Kietharr]

Actually, I really like this idea.

[NoobishNoob]

Sweet, everybody likes the item :D

[ImpBloody]

Hmm nice change to an underused item, nicely done.

[Epion]

I like the concept of the items but why did you remove the life and mana regeneration? And also the +10 to all stats? How and why? I would think maybe +8 to all stats but 10 seems a little high. Overall great item and would like to try it,

[Lolyness]

its a nice idea, prolly will be t-up, but holding for now.

I think its too imba... maybe with a higher cost on the recipe.

Imba because the items you need to get it are so good at all moments of the game. Every int loves having all that.

[NoobishNoob]

Hmm nice change to an underused item, nicely done.

Thanks a lot :D


I like the concept of the items but why did you remove the life and mana regeneration? And also the +10 to all stats? How and why? I would think maybe +8 to all stats but 10 seems a little high. Overall great item and would like to try it,

The health and mana regeneration was very neglegible, and adding +3 stats isn't much either, +57 Health and +39 Mana is a lot better in exchange of regeneration. But thanks anyway for the positive review mate :D


its a nice idea, prolly will be t-up, but holding for now.

I think its too imba... maybe with a higher cost on the recipe.

Imba because the items you need to get it are so good at all moments of the game. Every int loves having all that.


Balancing will come in at the later phase, this is just to see if everybody likes the concept of the item suggestion...

[Need]

Very good idea, perfect for keeping Pyromancer or Thunderbringer effective in a long drawn out match.

[DoubleSack]

I really like the concept of amplifying Hero cast damage, for the exact reason you gave: terrible scaling of casters against tanks and overall poor scaling into the late game. I also approve of the required activation, strangling the duration of the buff.

Would the item work on Passive damage, like Soul Reaper's Withering Presence?
How would the item work with spells that extend past the duration of the buff?
Edit: How did you intend this to work with spell that deal physical damage, like Healing Wave or (more realistic) Spirit ward?

EX: Tempest's meteor does damage longer than the buff lasts. Does meteor drop back to 6% damage at the end of the 4 seconds, or does it tick for 8% for the full duration.

This brings me to a non-conceptual complaint: Overpowered damage (feel free to completely ignore)

Still using tempest as an example, if he were to activate his physical immunity, then blink and pull a meteor/Elemental void at 16 (not terribly far fetched) would instantly kill any hero with less than 992 hp (No one at level 16) and leave everyone with less than 1911 HP at or below 25% (much more realistic).
with a combined mana cost of 702 mana this could be easily done with just this item, a blink dagger and a shrunken head, something a skilled tempest could farm by level 14. Hypothetical, but clearly broken.

Finally, in its current state this item would almost completely replace Staff of the Master. Most of the purchases of Staff of the master go to int casters looking for damage amplification to carry their burst strength into late game. There is no question that for an extra 1100 gold pyro or zues would pick 250HP/300MP and an extra 85/68(per target) damage on their ultimate's

I realize the items could stack, but since some casters are limited in their farm potential, the choice would always be the same

[NoobishNoob]

Very good idea, perfect for keeping Pyromancer or Thunderbringer effective in a long drawn out match.

Yep yep :D


I really like the concept of amplifying Hero cast damage, for the exact reason you gave: terrible scaling of casters against tanks and overall poor scaling into the late game. I also approve of the required activation, strangling the duration of the buff.

Would the item work on Passive damage, like Soul Reaper's Withering Presence?
How would the item work with spells that extend past the duration of the buff?
Edit: How did you intend this to work with spell that deal physical damage, like Healing Wave or (more realistic) Spirit ward?

EX: Tempest's meteor does damage longer than the buff lasts. Does meteor drop back to 6% damage at the end of the 4 seconds, or does it tick for 8% for the full duration.

This brings me to a non-conceptual complaint: Overpowered damage (feel free to completely ignore)

Still using tempest as an example, if he were to activate his physical immunity, then blink and pull a meteor/Elemental void at 16 (not terribly far fetched) would instantly kill any hero with less than 992 hp (No one at level 16) and leave everyone with less than 1911 HP at or below 25% (much more realistic).
with a combined mana cost of 702 mana this could be easily done with just this item, a blink dagger and a shrunken head, something a skilled tempest could farm by level 14. Hypothetical, but clearly broken.

Finally, in its current state this item would almost completely replace Staff of the Master. Most of the purchases of Staff of the master go to int casters looking for damage amplification to carry their burst strength into late game. There is no question that for an extra 1100 gold pyro or zues would pick 250HP/300MP and an extra 85/68(per target) damage on their ultimate's

I realize the items could stack, but since some casters are limited in their farm potential, the choice would always be the same


The difference between SotM and HA is the 1000 gold difference, in EM games, its still easy to earn for HA, but when it comes to serious games, many int heroes probably die alot and couldn't save much for HA, instead, they may go for SotM or other items instead.

Hmm, I think it would affect spells that require manacost to activate, in short, passive abilities don't count.

But I agree on Tempest point of view that it is a huge boost of damage, but its obviously the team's fault if they let Tempest farm up and then ult them all together right?

Anyway, thanks for the constructive review :D

[Mittsies]

Not sure how much I like +% spell damage on any item. I like how nukes become less useful as the game presses on -- making casters less dominant later in the game despite their power early on. Every time I see a suggestion like this, I think: "What's more important for the team? Extra damage on your nukes or a 3.5 second disable from Kuldra?" Regardless, this is actually the most well-designed item of it's class and deserves a T-UP from me; I'm just curious how this item will scale into the game, and if it will ever be used.

[NoobishNoob]

Not sure how much I like +% spell damage on any item. I like how nukes become less useful as the game presses on -- making casters less dominant later in the game despite their power early on. Every time I see a suggestion like this, I think: "What's more important for the team? Extra damage on your nukes or a 3.5 second disable from Kuldra?" Regardless, this is actually the most well-designed item of it's class and deserves a T-UP from me; I'm just curious how this item will scale into the game, and if it will ever be used.


I agree in your statement, but thank you for liking the item concept. :D


Update: As of 1.50 patch, Void Talisman no longer reduces magic armor! More love to this item Yayy!

[NoobishNoob]

BUMP

[NoobishNoob]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[HClCaSaT]

Very nice item and its presented well. Voted yes.

Please check out my suggestions too!

[NoobishNoob]

Thanks to everyone for their support and love for this item :D

Just 14 votes more

[MrSnowman]

I don't play alot of nukers so i don't have much to say in this except that I don't want to see this item on the enemy team. (I voted yes)

[Kzanu]

Voted yes also... but this item combined with Harkon's blade would be...lets say you will be the best carry EVAH' !!!!!!

Just thinking of a 1.5 k pure dmg nuke from pyro makes my balls shrink.

[NoobishNoob]

Voted yes also... but this item combined with Harkon's blade would be...lets say you will be the best carry EVAH' !!!!!!

Just thinking of a 1.5 k pure dmg nuke from pyro makes my balls shrink.

True, but that costs like:

Hellfire Amulet = 5400 G
Harkon's Blade = 5100 G

It equals to 10500 G, although it would be pretty much awesome, its really really hard to earn all of them :D

Thanks for the positive feedback mate

[NoobishNoob]

6 more votes people!!!

[Coruth1]

I like the idea, although it does make nukers like pyro/zeus powerful all game, whereas other heroes are only favorable mid/late.

What if the item was upgradeable three times, using the recipt, like rift shards for +10%/20%/30% spell damage/cost?

Costs and what not can be reconfigured

[NoobishNoob]

I like the idea, although it does make nukers like pyro/zeus powerful all game, whereas other heroes are only favorable mid/late.

What if the item was upgradeable three times, using the recipt, like rift shards for +10%/20%/30% spell damage/cost?

Costs and what not can be reconfigured

As interesting your suggestion is, sadly, the upgradable version cannot be possible due to the following reasons:

> Item Components such as Void Talisman and Icon of the Goddess are expensive and take approximately 80% of the total item cost

> 10% isn't noticable really...

Anyway, thanks for feedback :D

[NoobishNoob]

3 more votes people!!!

[Tedde]

This item with the new behemoths heart would be awesome!

[Alakazam2]

Voted T-Up, because int heroes need, both protection, and late game awesom-ness! Interesting idea

[Avunaos]

i find it very usefull for heroes without staff of the master ultimate improvements.
And even more with improvements.
The only bad thing is the cost, i find it high... Increase % to 40%/40% or reduce item components

great idea, just giving my opinion for the f2f club^^

only 13 votes more with mine ^^

[NoobishNoob]

BUMP!

[Moiita]

i think it's too expensive ..
if possible no recipe ..
Shrunken Head , Immune to Spell .. 3900gold for 10/9/8/7/6/5 Seconds

Hellfire Amulet , Immune to Physical thus increasing Spell Damage and Mana Cost ... 5400 for 4 seconds ..

Good Idea , i like it ..
Make teh price lower .. no scrolls 4800 .. and make it 3.5second and 35second cooldown ..

[`PiE]

love the idea wow!... very nicely done

[argnoferich]

Question, The +30% manacost and +30% damage only applies when the physical immunity is activated? It's not a bad implementation, but not a good one either in my opinion. I'll hold vote for now.

[Killamonjaro]

Noobishnoobs Hellfire Amulet. rolls off the tongue ^.^ T-up

[NoobishNoob]

i think it's too expensive ..
if possible no recipe ..
Shrunken Head , Immune to Spell .. 3900gold for 10/9/8/7/6/5 Seconds

Hellfire Amulet , Immune to Physical thus increasing Spell Damage and Mana Cost ... 5400 for 4 seconds ..

Good Idea , i like it ..
Make teh price lower .. no scrolls 4800 .. and make it 3.5second and 35second cooldown ..

It's that expensive??! Wow, 1st time I heard about that, you're actually the first one to say about that, but I still need more feedback regarding this before I'll change any of it. Plus, Concept first before balance right?


love the idea wow!... very nicely done

Thanks a lot mate ^^


Question, The +30% manacost and +30% damage only applies when the physical immunity is activated? It's not a bad implementation, but not a good one either in my opinion. I'll hold vote for now.

Yes, and can you elaborate on how it is not a good one???


Noobishnoobs Hellfire Amulet. rolls off the tongue ^.^ T-up

Lol :D

[`PiE]

ye maybe take away the recipe taking it down to 4800... but ur comparison with shrukin head - "Shrunken Head , Immune to Spell .. 3900gold for 10/9/8/7/6/5 Seconds" theres a difference between immune to spell only.. and immune to physical and 30 % extra spell damage.. thats y the price will differ... this item can be used very effecively .. nomes wisdom which gives u 25% of ur mana used per spell to ur hp.. so now u have 30% more mana used aswel.. ur int heroes can become very strong at late game ... not like most games where a carry >> int :)

[Sclampf1]

very, very nice item for carries!


==|> !IT REALLY SHOULDNT STACK WITH BKB! <|==

[jgreen464]

To be honest I can't see too many nukers using this item as it has no mana regen and a health item cost. Though I might pick this up on heroes like magmus or behemoth? Stacked with a shrunked head it could do wonders..

[The_Unhealer]

check it with spell resistance items on spell resistance ability heroes such as devourer.

With his spell and hood he has 53.9% spell reduction.

Pyro's ulti:
1150 (with SotM) * 1.3 = 1495 * (1-0.539) = 689 damage
1150 (with SotM) * (1-0.539) = 530 damage

now does this 160 damage make a difference worth spending 5+ k gold on it?

Better make it into a "spells deal pure damage" but cost 30% more.
It wouldn't change a thing for the heroes that have only the base resistance because it is roughly the same with pure or as it is now for those heroes. But for heroes that have gigantic resistance it would be significant change.

[Nolifer]

I like the concept, this type of item really is missing so good job on thinking this out!!!
It may be a slight bit underpowered, IMO make the buff last 5 sec

[PROc]

Really like this, sometimes pyro/tb can be a tad weak late game but this item should help a lot.

[NoobishNoob]

ye maybe take away the recipe taking it down to 4800... but ur comparison with shrukin head - "Shrunken Head , Immune to Spell .. 3900gold for 10/9/8/7/6/5 Seconds" theres a difference between immune to spell only.. and immune to physical and 30 % extra spell damage.. thats y the price will differ... this item can be used very effecively .. nomes wisdom which gives u 25% of ur mana used per spell to ur hp.. so now u have 30% more mana used aswel.. ur int heroes can become very strong at late game ... not like most games where a carry >> int :)

Okay, thanks for the feedback. I am convinced enough thanks to your comparison on other items. Will remove the recipe to help this item be at par with the other items. Thanks!


very, very nice item for carries!


==|> !IT REALLY SHOULDNT STACK WITH BKB! <|==

Whoa, I never knew about that, I'll immediately add this. Thanks for the input bro.


To be honest I can't see too many nukers using this item as it has no mana regen and a health item cost. Though I might pick this up on heroes like magmus or behemoth? Stacked with a shrunked head it could do wonders..

Thanks to above post and yours, I'll make sure Shrunken Head and this item won't stack.


check it with spell resistance items on spell resistance ability heroes such as devourer.

With his spell and hood he has 53.9% spell reduction.

Pyro's ulti:
1150 (with SotM) * 1.3 = 1495 * (1-0.539) = 689 damage
1150 (with SotM) * (1-0.539) = 530 damage

now does this 160 damage make a difference worth spending 5+ k gold on it?

Better make it into a "spells deal pure damage" but cost 30% more.
It wouldn't change a thing for the heroes that have only the base resistance because it is roughly the same with pure or as it is now for those heroes. But for heroes that have gigantic resistance it would be significant change.

Hmm, I may still need more feedback about this proposal, (Its a really good suggestion though), true that it will only do a little more damage to heroes going for Headdress.



I like the concept, this type of item really is missing so good job on thinking this out!!!
It may be a slight bit underpowered, IMO make the buff last 5 sec

I think I'll start off with a removed recipe cost that the total cost from 5400 will be 4800, but thanks for the idea.


Really like this, sometimes pyro/tb can be a tad weak late game but this item should help a lot.

Thanks a lot.

[`PiE]

to lazy to go look back who said it but they complained about no mana regen ect.. it will be a late game item.. after u have already got ur main item ect.. so by lvl 16 or so u have more than enough mana regen and mana infact to rip sh!t up :)

[NoobishNoob]

to lazy to go look back who said it but they complained about no mana regen ect.. it will be a late game item.. after u have already got ur main item ect.. so by lvl 16 or so u have more than enough mana regen and mana infact to rip sh!t up :)

Exactly.

[stX3]

i dont like this concept because as some one said lategame i would rather see my SUPPORT heroes go kuldra instead of extra damage(hood etc some one alrdy made the math...) it would be just another item nubs would pick ovr kuldra and we allrdy have sotm witch gets used on alot of strange heroes !, 2end off imo casters(in general) are NOT supposed to carry lategame, because they are carry earlie game. last but not least i cant see my self buying this item on any hero unless i allrdy had kuldra. never the less ill give you thumbs up for trying because i can see the need for the physical reduction lategame, and the fact that you are trying is in it self worth a clap on the shoulder :)

[NoobishNoob]

i dont like this concept because as some one said lategame i would rather see my SUPPORT heroes go kuldra instead of extra damage(hood etc some one alrdy made the math...) it would be just another item nubs would pick ovr kuldra and we allrdy have sotm witch gets used on alot of strange heroes !, 2end off imo casters(in general) are NOT supposed to carry lategame, because they are carry earlie game. last but not least i cant see my self buying this item on any hero unless i allrdy had kuldra. never the less ill give you thumbs up for trying because i can see the need for the physical reduction lategame, and the fact that you are trying is in it self worth a clap on the shoulder :)

Everyone is entitled to choose whatever item which suits them greatly, what I suggest is adding a new addition which would fit specially in late game.

Building for a Kuldra is sometimes hard in some situations where you just can't seem to save that 2700 gold for the +25 int staff, my item's only expensive item component is only 1500, a huge difference and serves as an alternate option for those heroes who usually dies.

And its not physical reduction, its immunity.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.


EDIT: Okay, thanks to the one who suggested for pure damage, I used your idea, so thanks a lot for helping me improve this item :D

[Flair]

Voted yes also... but this item combined with Harkon's blade would be...lets say you will be the best carry EVAH' !!!!!!

Just thinking of a 1.5 k pure dmg nuke from pyro makes my balls shrink.
Harkon's lands a magic armor debuffs on the target.
Since this makes spells do true damage, the magic armor will be irrelevant.

[NoobishNoob]

Harkon's lands a magic armor debuffs on the target.
Since this makes spells do true damage, the magic armor will be irrelevant.

Before, your spell damage is increased to 30%, thats why he's stating how Harkon's Blade synergizes perfectly with this item. But since I recently changed this to pure damage to solve a lot of issues, sadly, the two items don't synergize anymore.

[NoctisFaytE]

Very nice. Glad to see the use of Void =p

Such an amazing item. yet so underratedQQ

Voted yes;D

[NoobishNoob]

Very nice. Glad to see the use of Void =p

Such an amazing item. yet so underratedQQ

Voted yes;D

Thanks a lot :D, hope we get to see Void and Icon be of good use more often :D

[jgreen464]

overpowered won't get implemented

[NoobishNoob]

overpowered won't get implemented

OP => Balance => OK!!!

[F3rnseher]

The idea to keep casters viable lategame is good. I like the idea of the item, but the numbers definitely have to be tweaked. Also, I think this item could be used in an unintended way. Considering it has really good components that are decent to farm (compared to the 2700 gold staff for the sheepstick, for example), strong farming/ganking casters could end up getting this item really early, making them ridiculously powerful.

You'd also have to think about heroes with magic armor abilities, I think completely nullifying Magebane's magic armor could cause some balancing problems since heroes like him can be countered quite well now already.

[NoobishNoob]

The idea to keep casters viable lategame is good. I like the idea of the item, but the numbers definitely have to be tweaked. Also, I think this item could be used in an unintended way. Considering it has really good components that are decent to farm (compared to the 2700 gold staff for the sheepstick, for example), strong farming/ganking casters could end up getting this item really early, making them ridiculously powerful.

You'd also have to think about heroes with magic armor abilities, I think completely nullifying Magebane's magic armor could cause some balancing problems since heroes like him can be countered quite well now already.

Numbers could be easily tweaked and nerfed easily. Plus, its only a 4 second damage amplification, so its really, really situational. A good player would know how to back off when they activate the item and then proceed to kill.

Countering Magebane with this item is like saying how a 700 gold item would quickly make the ultimate of Night Hound worthless permanently.

Plus, getting this early does have its advantages but with much more disadvantages due to the huge manacost and no regeneration given by the item, which prolongs the down time of the user unless he has a good source of regen or usually does fountain trips.

[Wiebekilling]

Tinker: Sup yo!
enemy: RUN AWAY
Tinker:*Hellflowers enemy**Sheeps enemy**activates Hellfire Amulet**Freezing Field**Codex (full) on Enemy**laser's enemy**Rockets enemy*

(325 +320 +200 +800) x 1.2 =1974 dmg.... REARM!
Rockets Lazer Shivas Codex Hellflower

[Stokkolm]

True damage for everything is plain stupid. A hero with shaman's headress should take less damage than one without. Period.

[NoobishNoob]

Tinker: Sup yo!
enemy: RUN AWAY
Tinker:*Hellflowers enemy**Sheeps enemy**activates Hellfire Amulet**Freezing Field**Codex (full) on Enemy**laser's enemy**Rockets enemy*

(325 +320 +200 +800) x 1.2 =1974 dmg.... REARM!
Rockets Lazer Shivas Codex Hellflower

Good luck farming all of those items...


True damage for everything is plain stupid. A hero with shaman's headress should take less damage than one without. Period.


I could easily change the true damage back to the 30% increased spell damage when its balancing time anytime I want to, and you should CONCENTRATE on the CONCEPT FIRST!!!1!one!!

[Flat_Head]

I like the concept, not sure if you should go the truedamage route though (a behemoth or magmus with this would render barrier idols useless) perhaps negating some portion of magic armor would be better?

and jesus, as it is now, it's core as f*ck on torturer!

[Stokkolm]

I could easily change the true damage back to the 30% increased spell damage when its balancing time anytime I want to, and you should CONCENTRATE on the CONCEPT FIRST!!!1!one!!
Good enough then, that's exactly what i wanted to hear. It's a nice concept as long as spell damage isn't converted to true damage.

[NoobishNoob]

I like the concept, not sure if you should go the truedamage route though (a behemoth or magmus with this would render barrier idols useless) perhaps negating some portion of magic armor would be better?

and jesus, as it is now, it's core as f*ck on torturer!


Good enough then, that's exactly what i wanted to hear. It's a nice concept as long as spell damage isn't converted to true damage.



Okay, I think that its better if I return the original spell damage boost instead of true damage. Thanks for your comments :D

[NoobishNoob]

BUMP!

[PROc]

Friendly BUMP.

[dezi]

Likely :)

[TowerDive]

Finally a good item idea.

[Jarnoldinho]

The best item suggestion so far, would make int carries possible and would increase the usage of +magic armor items / spells, which people aren't using so much.

[sipi19]

Great idea, i hope it will be implemented.
Thumb up!

[NoobishNoob]

Thanks to everyone for their support!

[KOCH]

it should be 25% or kinda that. Not 35. So if you look at pyromancer, who has got staff of the master and this item, it would be kinda imba.

[Furdy]

It's pretty sweet, but wouldn't it disrupt the structure of the game?

Casters are meant to get shitty

Reserving vote pending response

[NoobishNoob]

it should be 25% or kinda that. Not 35. So if you look at pyromancer, who has got staff of the master and this item, it would be kinda imba.

I see your point... But please focus on concept first :D

Here's a suggestion:

25% Increased Spell Damage and Mana Cost <following your sugg>, but reducing the cooldown from 25 to 20, or duration increase from 4 to 5??

What do you think?


It's pretty sweet, but wouldn't it disrupt the structure of the game?

Casters are meant to get shitty

Reserving vote pending response


Problem is, most casters end up being fodder for carries around mid game and beyond since they are just pretty much easy to deal with thanks to cheap, cost-effective items e.g. Headdress, Barrier Idol and Shrunken Head. Each one of them quickly cripples a caster's potential, plus there are more items focused on carry/physical attack purposes than casters.

What I'm proposing is adding a helpful option for casters who are still fragile, easily killed and can't seem to earn enough for that Sheepstick, etc.

The choice, however, is still theirs...

[Paradigm_]

GREAT item idea.

[AngryN00B]

+10 attribute is overkill... other than that, pretty gj idea

[NoobishNoob]

+10 attribute is overkill... other than that, pretty gj idea

Oh that, previously, there was a recipe cost on the item, that's why I added a few bonuses, now that it doesn't a recipe anymore, I suppose I'll nerf the numbers back to be the same with the components.

[D0ri]

thumbs down from me.

I think nukers should not scale into lategame. They shine early and mid game. Dont strip carries of their lategame-pownage.
Also I dont see, why someone would/should ever get this over a bloodstone or a totem. Seems obsolete to me. I'd be pissed if Pyro on my team got this instead of a stormspirit or kuldra...

[Sagat]

imba.

makes staff of the master useless on pyromancer, thunderbringer, and witch hunter.

[Tanubis]

SoTM and this are very different items. SoTM is cheaper, doesn't boost damage very much for many, and gives less in the way of HP / MP. It also doesn't give the physical immunity. SoTM does different things - you'd be getting it a little more for the Ult in this scenario - sure, this item would be better for some heroes like thunderbringer and pyro. But I'm always going to be shooting for SoTM first on Nymphora still, as well as Ophelia, etc. Makes less sense on dedicated nukers, but the real reason for SoTM was just the stats on those. Not so much a barely noticeable ult boost.

I really like the item's survivability boost, and would make me choose between SoTM and this for several heroes. If I was getting focused by carries a lot, I'd even get this over a Kuldra's simply for the massive increase in survivability. Solid item, thumbs up.

[jay`t]

dont know what i think about this item, and whether i like the idea of having a super defensive item + damage amp + stats and mana and hp in the same item.

at first glance, this thing is really powerful, and the dual nature of the item means it'll have a use every time it's off cooldown (on some heroes). being focused? pop it and run. not being focused? pop it and own

i mean, compare it to staff of the master. staff gives a good amount of hp/mana and 10 stats and an ult upgrade. this item gives MOAR hp/mana and physical immunity and a damage buff. obviously a great item, right?

but then again, i see its use being very limited. i mean, what caster needs 30% more damage more than kuldra or staff? pyro is the obvious example, and maybe witch slayer. hag might be able to pull it off, i guess, but she's mana hungry already, and needs mana leftover for blink and scream. other int heroes are busy playing supportive roles, or don't nuke hard enough to make 30% worthwhile.

in conclusion: no idea. it might be good enough to be a second item on like pyromancer, but games don't really last that long, and pyro should be warding anyway.

edit: no vote for now either way

[Hakufu]

Great idea, but I have a feeling this may make int heroes a tad more powerful than they're meant to be endgame =/

[Arnald1]

I liked it, heavy casters can buildup towards a nice late game with it

[NyRe]

Imagine a Soul Reaper or Wretched Hag with this item. Scariest ****.

Nono.

[Droggeltasse]

I liked it, heavy casters can buildup towards a nice late game with it

No, because of this

If you want to make casters less "feeding" in lategame why dont give them a item to escape, like void talisman plus nullstone effect for 4 secs but pls dont improve their lategame nuking power. If you want to do sth. usefull lategame buy a kuldra, frostfield, stormspirit, barrier idol or if you want some dps buy a harkons or hellflower. There is realy no need for this item that casters could do still sth. usefull lategame.

[Arnald1]

No, because of this

If you want to make casters less "feeding" in lategame why dont give them a item to escape, like void talisman plus nullstone effect for 4 secs but pls dont improve their lategame nuking power. If you want to do sth. usefull lategame buy a kuldra, frostfield, stormspirit, barrier idol or if you want some dps buy a harkons or hellflower. There is realy no need for this item that casters could do still sth. usefull lategame.

It depends on your playstyle a lot, sometimes you are not feeding in lategame but your killing skills have disminished quite some and then this Amulet can help.

Personally my late game core item (for most chars) is a frostfield plate, but sometimes it's not needed and this can be more suitable.

[Pedey]

I think that you should make it do what you suggested. Make up for Caster's late game weaknesses. That said, I think you should make it scale with levels. (1.4% increased mana cost and spell damage per level?) - Still ends up at 35%, but at level 16 its only 22.4%... something slightly more manageable, or even 3.5% per stat attribute acquired. (1.8% per level -10%?)

Even Scout/Riki/Corrupted/Luna don't deserve to get 1 shot mid game by any nuke hero mid game.

I like the concept though, and I think the niche it fills is currently needed and not dealt with in the current versions of HoN.

This does make Intel carries much more likely though. :)

[NoobishNoob]

BUMP!!!

[NoobishNoob]

BUMP!

[NoobishNoob]

bump...

[TeNesmus]

Just think about how insane it would be on Torturer with all that magic damage output and immuinity to mele it would be imbalanced

[Forfeit]

I also like this, which is rare because I usually hate everything that's user created.

[NoobishNoob]

le bump

[NoobishNoob]

bump!

[H_Mantis]

I hate it when Int heroes lose their usefulness in late games. But this item changes that all. +1 from me. ^^

[NoobishNoob]

BUMP!!!

[NoobishNoob]

bump!!!

[NoobishNoob]

bump...

[Mrmisterwaa]

Overpowered.

[NoobishNoob]

Overpowered.

Please elaborate

[i_am_da_pwn]

Looks sweet, voted yes!

[WSLaFleur]

I see some flaws which I can guarantee are going to thwart the implementation of this item.

1) This item very nearly replaces SotM on every conceivable caster, and is much better for heroes like Pebbles, who were never aiming for the stats anyway.

2) You're looking at this the wrong way. Your goal is to provide intelligence heroes with some carry potential late-game, right? Or at least stabilize their end-game.

A) This item will scale horribly into late-game where it counts, which will be against the enemy heroes who were smart enough to purchase Headdresses, or Idols. Refer to the post about magic reduction and Pyromancer's ultimate. You'll be one-shotting squishy agility/int heroes either way, and still be unable to damage anyone with magic armor.

B) You're going to be forcing intelligence carries to run out of their base, one-shot a squishy and then run back to their base. This item offers no regeneration of any sort while bolstering already huge costs, in fact it offers very little versatility at all. The only outstanding utility of this item is the Void Talisman's effect.

C) A preemptive rebuttal to your quick-solution (which will be to implement the true-damage quality yet again) Stop and think about this.

a) If you allow this item to change the users spell damage-type to pure, you'll be not only granting +35% damage without the cost of a recipe, but you'll also be completely negating the effect of Headdresses and Barrier Idols(2,000 - 3,600 Gold!), this counter-resistance effect would be so staggeringly awful that it would make wards/dust vs. Assassin's Shroud look downright weak. Intelligence carries would become staple. You would one-shot any hero that wasn't stacking strength/health solely. It wouldn't just change or alter the structure of the game, it would tear that fabric to shreds.

3) If you are serious about changing the structure of the game to allow intelligence carries(Outside of Puppet Master), which I earnestly hope that you are, you will take a step back and put a little more thought and consideration into exactly what casters need in order to carry.

A) Even agility hard-carries generally don't roam around solo-ganking, they just provide the DPS and don't have to run back to base in-between every clash. So we're talking cost-reduction, not cost-expansion if we're going to see intelligence carries.

B) We need to make sure we're not replacing other items, such as SotM. Outside of the Void Talisman's effect and a seriously unnecessary +35% cost, you're creating something that feels like a carbon copy of SotM.

[Iamdeadmeat]

I support this idea, but on pyromancer 4 seconds might not be enough to get off all 3 of his nukes. Thumbs up from me anyway.

[NoobishNoob]

bump

[FuzzyWuzzy]

This completely makes Aghanim/Staff useless.

Gives about the same mana/hp/stats but boots ulti + all OTHER spells a lot more.

The mana cost is negligible on most Staff carriers.

[volcan33]

i like this :D
int heroes gotta be a bit more useful in very late game....

[Dendo]

Voted yes, love the idea man.

[NoobishNoob]

bump

[TeDdYFoK3R]

v.nice would buy

[Director]

Bump, I like it.

[CheshireCat]

Incredible, allows for the unique opportunity for nukers to scale late game. HoN needs this. :)

[Thingdo]

I like this idea. Could help a lot of the int heroes scale a bit.

[LibrteORDeth]

Definitely, as previously mentioned Icon is way underused, particularly with the new sacrificial stone.

[Nytemair]

I actually like this idea, but the problem with making ints scale better late game would make them good ALL game.
Nukers/Ints: Good early game, power wanes late game.
Strengths/Tanks/Initiators: Fairly good all game, don't really excel at carrying the team at any point, but do not get weaker later.
Carries: Bad early game, own late game.
Having a type that owns all games would have negative drawbacks, but I'll t-up for the concept. ;)

[resp]

the idea is indeed nice. but nukers need love in other ways than improving their nukes. they surely dont need to have strong nukes early, mid AND late game.
"carry heroes which are now capable in killing our fragile nukers easily."
you mean ... like ... nukers nuke carry heroes early-mid in 3spells?

60second cd on a 1.1k TRUE damage nuke? on a 2-2.3k hp carry? add 2 more spells and make it 1.5-1.7k total?? NO ty, you had your fun early-mid, get a harkons if you really wanna dish dmg, or one of the several other supporting items available.

Im all into providing nukers/int heroes some love end game, but not by making their 3spell-wonder-combo viable AGAIN. a nuker's role is to gank and dominate early-mid, why even get a carry when u can get 3nukers with this item and 9shot 3people on the oposing team?(exaggeration)

PS: just imagine harkons+this. 1550 true damage in ONE spell... just hope S2 never implements this. rather more supportive items.
PSS: not to mention, like someone else already stated, this item would make staff obsolete, because of 2 reasons: 1. it boosts ALL your spells AND grants phys imunity and 2. it boosts your ultimate by a BIGGER amount than staff(lol).
PSSS: I also stand by what LaFleur said... all of you "im loving this" guys just think outside the "hah im gonna have so much fun with this" and more into the "this will unbalance the game flow GREATLY".

edit:

Incredible, allows for the unique opportunity for nukers to scale late game. HoN needs this
no, this isnt the only option, however this is the unique opportunity for nukers to own the whole god damn game. A nuker early-mid becomes a support late game, not a stronger nuker >_>

[Steppelhoff]

Combining in one item two opposite effects is not good. People use Void Stone when they're about to get raped (i.e. when you can't stun/disable/kill enemy carry), and this item would force them to activate it when THEY about to burst lots of damage (many spells also have some stun/disable effects) so it almost completely loses purpose of one of its components.
My No, sorry.

[coolstorybro]

You can apply for a sticky if you didnt already.http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=25792
Look at the third tip that says for a move to popular.

[Ryper7]

well i have to say that this is a great idea, the manacost increase would serve to stop it from being completely ridiculous and overpowered. well thought out and will be a core on all heavy casters, great idea. this is one of the first suggestions that ive really wanted to see implemented for a while, t-up

[Kylskap]

The name really making no sense whatsoever for me, Icon of the godess + Void talisman makes something like HELLfire? :S
And even if i would love to use this item the entire point of having a strong int early game is that they are supposed to get succesively weaker as the game passes on.
this item should not be in the game just as Carries are not supposed to have a strong earlygame. and yes I am aware of that the latest carrier does not exactly follow these guidelines, but I'd rather see earlygame nerfs for carrier rather than seeing intheroes running around with this.

[Blot]

Its a nice concept. I have to say that having it deal true is really, really really really powerful. If I understood it correctly. But I say yes for the concept, even if it needs tweaking.

[Static]

Eh...idunno. I could see this being INCREDIBLY overpowered on heroes such as Plague rider (700 damage a hit -> 945 damage a hit, 7 bounces = 4,900 -> 6,615, a 1,715 increase in magic damage). Void talisman and Icon of the Goddess are relatively easy to farm, and the stats on this item are simply insane for the cost. Void talisman is a great item (underused because of the disarm coefficient), and doesn't need a buff.

[Pineapple]

this is a really good suggestion with an upgrade for icon (which really needed another upgrade than sac stone!!)
also an upgrade for void talisman which also could use an upgrade.
why did u remove the hp and mana reg from icon?

anyway a really good suggestion that i really think should be implementet asap

EDIT: change the name btw ^^

[Rufzeichen]

i am missing the +1 hp regen and the +10% mana regen, or is this intended?

anyways http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[`Passos]

Really interesting item, will give more utility to it's componets, adds some great survivability to the weak late game int heroes, a renewed usage off the skills, whit more power, and lasts for only 4 sec, whit a good colldown time, so t-up, great idea.

[Tirrinar]

2 questions;

1: what about spells that deal damage as well as heal, eg Volitile pod.
2: Also is the amplification counted before or after the spell is cast, and if you use a DoT eg, Cursed Ground, will it have the bonus damage only during the duration, or if activated after will it have any influence or would the spell receive full benefit as long as it was cast during the 4 second window?

[Squeejee]

This is stupidly overpowered.

[Tirrinar]

This is stupidly overpowered.
Says the guy who rarely plays nukers

[Dr`Delicious]

I think this is pretty sweet.

[Pineapple]

This is stupidly overpowered.

numbers can be changed..................

[g1real]

This isn't overpowered at all actually.

In fact I would give a bit more autoattack immunity to this, 6 seconds.

[GeoRusH]

needs the regen, keep the regen, low the stats.

[goNx]

I don't like it. It makes nukers viable carries, and we have enough carries as it is.

[blockhet]

Might need some balance. Seems like a cool id?a though.

[GGreenBass]

Perfect,
except I'm concerned that it may put nukers into lategame for too long. I don't see it undermining carries as a whole, but it could easily be a metagame shifter, making the whole push-to-base-before-the-carries-do or keep-the-carries-down-so-ours-is-better strats change at least noticibly. But is that neccesarily a bad thing? I'll let S2 decide. I like this item, how it brings 2 previously on-their-own unimportant items into a game-changing, but not OP, item.

[NoobishNoob]

Perfect,
except I'm concerned that it may put nukers into lategame for too long. I don't see it undermining carries as a whole, but it could easily be a metagame shifter, making the whole push-to-base-before-the-carries-do or keep-the-carries-down-so-ours-is-better strats change at least noticibly. But is that neccesarily a bad thing? I'll let S2 decide. I like this item, how it brings 2 previously on-their-own unimportant items into a game-changing, but not OP, item.

But its only 4 seconds of amplified power, and requires very good timing to pull off effectively. Plus, it may look overpowered on paper... but still we have yet to try this out ingame.

[Electroid]

imba.

makes staff of the master useless on pyromancer, thunderbringer, and witch hunter.

who gets staff of the master on pyromancer thunder bringer and witch hunter? kids who have no idea how to play, at 1300 psr.
or those that say "I get it for the stats"

any person who is good will never get staff on those heroes anyways, there is very few heroes where staff is actually good.

(they did calculate the damage increase on pyro its something like 150 extra damage for 4.3k? nthx. even worse for witch slayer)

imho this item is great as most int casters get seriously useleess late game and should be still doing something rather then just dieing

[rocky_]

no, to imba.

[DeviousAlpha]

who gets staff of the master on pyromancer thunder bringer and witch hunter? kids who have no idea how to play, at 1300 psr.
or those that say "I get it for the stats"


And what about SotM on a hero like Hag.

I am personally very against spelldamage scaling. If you want that, then go and play LoL.

As soon as you make spell damage scale you change the entire metagame.

A team of nukers has an early game advantage, and a late game disadvantage. For every carry you bring in place of a nuker, you get slightly stronger late game, for slightly weaker early/mid game. That is why picking is tactical, and the game plays the way it does.

Sorry but it's a T-down from me.

[UnumSceleris]

Great idea. I think both the items used are quite uncommon as well as the reason for the new item to be made (int character's poor scaling into the late game). Perhaps you should make this effect work on all burst damage spells (as opposed to dots or auras) instead of all passives as a blanket statement. Thunderbringer's lightning rod would benefit mildly from this item boosting the magic damage from 11% to 13.85% (keep in mind the minimum 20% reduction of magic damage on all heroes). Anyway good luck and I hope this gets implemented!

[Corn]

Is this auto assemble? Defiantly think there should be a recipe expecially with a item this powerful.

[chehawara]

man i really like this. It will really help nukers be relevant late game wich will in turn make having a carry in your team not as important wich will in turn disencourage turtle strats :P. i also think its good that the steroid spell cant be used at the same time as shrunken wich is reasonable.

very creative and i would say if this item would be added it would add a lot of depth into this game. GJ

[Manastrider]

What's this?
http://i38.tinypic.com/nnml3n.jpg
Do we even have such an item in the game?

Joke aside, I like the concept, though if I may add, I think you should have +8/9 to all stats. Might not seem like much, but it does make a difference. Also, how will this function with spells that have a Mana Upkeep (i.e. Torment), and Blacksmith's Multicast?

[LotharsHedge]

Should make the flames effect increase spell damage received by target as well by a small amount and reduce the increased mana cost, or just get rid of it completely!
~Reasons~
-Gives it a bit more of a risk, creating a glass cannon sort of effect, which I have always liked. With the increased firepower comes increased risk of dieing not just a risk of going OOM (not that scary)
-Burning craptons of mana does not make me happy
-It would still be good as an anti carry item due to the lack of heavy nukes on carries!

Just my opinion do with it what you will.

[Paklu]

This item could actually compete with sac stone or sheepstick as a luxury item on casters. However with codex these heroes easily get +400 to their burst at 15 min ()2700 or so gold)and it doesn't make nukers overly good or anything. This gives equal boost to most nukers so it isn't huge at all, except maybe with some aoe heroes.

[c4ligo]

Ok, think of a Pyro with Staff of the Masters, this item and this http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=45868 Oô
Insane damage + Heal + Overall lowered Mana costs.

Oh, how I want to try this :D

[MANTOWN]

Awesome idea; but...

I was thinking of a similar idea, but more along the lines of decrepify. (being able to target enemies and allies, but does two different effects for both)

eg. targeting an enemy = 45% increased damage from spells, 35% lowered movement speed, unit walking, ethereal form (immune to physical) 4 second duration

Allies get = unit walking, ethereal form, regular movement speed, + 5 magic armor. 4 second duration.

Or something like that.


Edit: Although i would LOVE your item on Thunder bringer.... <3