Betrayer (Nerubian Assassin semi port)

[Lolyness]

A COMMENT IS BETTER THAN A VOTE. YOUR VOTE IS MUCH APPRECIATED ANYWAY.


CHANGELOG
- Increased all his mana costs.
- Mana Snatch doesn't replenish Betrayer's mana anymore.
- Mana Snatch cooldown scale increased to 30/20/10/5 from a constant 7.
- Burned ammount changed to match DotA's.
- Still a bit lower than dota, as this scales the damage it does. More effective for burning at the beggining(5 secs lower cd per at level 1-3). Same as dota at level 4, except more expensive.
- Smelly Reworked: From Accuracy + Turnrate debuff TO Attack/Casting Speed + Magic Armor debuff.
- Ultimate's damage increased to match DotA's. Removed the magic armor debuff.
---------------------------------------------------
- Nerfed Shadow Cut. Lowered damage and rescaled stun.
- Rescaled Shadow Cut again, damage back to 300 but lowered the disorient effect duration.
---------------------------------------------------
- Reworked amount of mana drained by Mana Snatch again. Now it burns a fixed amount plus 2x intelligence. This will make it better against lower mana pools and worse against larger mana pools.
- Tweaked the damage done by Mana Snatch also. Reduced from 0.5/0.65/0.8/1.0 to 0.5/0.6/0.7/0.85.
- Nerfed Smelly speed reduce from 7/14/21/28 to 6/12/18/24.


Betrayer



http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource_images/7/icons_6483_btn.jpghttp://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource_images/8/icons_7709_btn.jpghttp://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3081/smellyr.jpghttp://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource_images/10/icons_9041_btn.jpg

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9756/ratmanu.jpg

Justification and Summary
I'm sure im not the first person to miss having NA as a heavy counter against many of the most ugly lane controllers today.
Electrician + Pyromancer comes to my mind and then comes the Betrayer who can survive the deadly combo by draining their mana and counter nuking if he has some help.
Basically, Mana Burn and Vendetta are unchanged, except for some tweaks on both. (My Vendetta costs more mana as Betrayer is an Int hero. My Mana Burn is also expensiver and its damage scales with level, being both weaker than the originals)
Impale has been changed for a single target stun that disorients enemies around the main target. This way it sacrifices damage (will be bit weaker, but a better cc) in exchange for a reliable group disable.
Finally, spiked caparace has been replaced by Smelly. A passive ability to control the ability to fight effectively in the opposite team.

History
The Betrayer doesn't have a real affiliation. He's full of himself and his heart is black as coal. He came to Newerth to steal the secrets of the Legion powerful arcanists to sell them at the black market.
He tried to affiliate with the Legion, but was discovered by them, and throwed out to the wilds.
So he became part of the hellbourne to have the chance of stealing those precious secrets by using brute force.

Visual Concept
The Betrayer is a wererat, half man, half rat. He's all messed up, disgusting and dirty. He attacks with a dagger he holds on his left, and casts with a skull shaped vessel he holds on his right hand.
Finally, he uses a torn, dirty black cape.

Roles
Lane Control: As Nerubian Assassin, the Betrayer makes an excellent lane control by draining his opponents mana.
Ganker: The high amount of nukeable skills and the chance to become invisible make this hero a great candidate for ganking.


http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3682/86191856.gif

Range: Melee
Movespeed: 305

http://www.playdota.com/img/site/strength.jpg http://www.playdota.com/img/site/agility.jpg http://www.playdota.com/img/site/intelligence-c.jpg
[18 + 1.8] [18 + 1.8] [19 + 2.6]

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8445/25530081.gif

Damage: 30-34 (49-53 including Int)
HP: 150 (492 including Str)
Mana: 10 (257 including Int)
Attack CD: 1.7 (1.394 including Agi - I think)


Spells

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource_images/7/icons_6483_btn.jpg Shadow Cut (Activable, One enemy taget)

Cuts the target and the ones around him by stabbing him with his magic imbued daggers, leaving them defenseless at the mercy of the Betrayer.

Mechanics
1. Cut is medium range nuke plus stun.
2. Strikes a single target and then, all the targets inside an area.
3. Visually speaking, Cut pierces its target with a magic edge and then sends a magic burst to enemy units around the main target.
4. This burst emanates from the main target. As he is the center of a EMP
5. Only the main target becomes stunned and damaged.
6. The secondary targets become disortiented only.
7. Disoriented works the same as Maliken's Fear.
8. The target of Cut is shown as Blacksmith's Flaming Hammer.

Hotkey: Q
Mana Cost: 100/120/140/160
Cooldown: 11 seconds
Cast Range: 400
Radious of Effect: 225/250/275/300 around the main target.

[Level 1] 80 magic damage, 0.75 second of stun. Enemies around the main target are disoriented for 1 second.
[Level 2] 160 magic damage, 1.25 seconds of stun. Enemies around the main target are disoriented for 1.25 seconds.
[Level 3] 230 magic damage, 1.75 seconds of stun. Enemies around the main target are disoriented for 1.5 seconds.
[Level 4] 300 magic damage, 2.25 seconds of stun. Enemies around the main target are disoriented for 1.75 seconds.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource_images/8/icons_7709_btn.jpg Mana Snatch (Activable, One enemy target)

The Betrayer sends a dark beam at his target. This beam will steal the targets magical essence.

Mechanics
1. Damages the target by draining his mana.
2. The damage done scales with level.
3. It burns a fixed amount plus 2x Int of the Target.
4. IE: 22 INT hero as target as target. Level 1 Mana Snatch would burn up to: 69 (25 + 44(2x22)). Resulting into 34 magic damage.
5. IE2: 132 INT hero as target. Level 4 Mana Snatch would burn up to: 364 (100 + 264 (2x132)). Resulting into 309 magic damage.

Hotkey: W
Mana Cost: 60/90/120/150
Cooldown: 30/20/10/5 seconds
Cast Range: 650 at all levels

[Level 1] Burns up to 25 mana plus (2x Intelligence of Target). Damages the target for 0.5 magic damage per point of mana drained.
[Level 2] Burns up to 50 mana plus (2x Intelligence of Target). Damages the target for 0.6 magic damage per point of mana drained.
[Level 3] Burns up to 75 mana plus (2x Intelligence of Target). Damages the target for 0.7 magic damage per point of mana drained.
[Level 4] Burns up to 100 mana plus (2x Intelligence of Target). Damages the target for 0.85 magic damage per point of mana drained.

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3081/smellyr.jpg Smelly (Passive, Enemy Debuff, Toggleable)

The Betrayer is so putrid and disgusting he emanates a wave of bad smell for units around him. Being close to the betrayer makes enemies sloppy and distracted by the bad smell.

Mechanics
1. This ability is an aura for your enemies.
2. They get two different debuffs.
3. One that makes them lose attack and casting speed.
4. And a second debuff that reduces magic armor.
5. This ability can be toggled off by hitting its hotkey.
6. Toggling Smelly won't break invisibility or channels.

Hotkey: E
Range of Effect: 350
Cooldown: 0 seconds.

[Level 1] Casting and attack speed reduced by 6, -1 magic armor.
[Level 2] Casting and attack speed reduced by 12, -2 magic armor.
[Level 3] Casting and attack speed reduced by 18, -3 magic armor.
[Level 4] Casting and attack speed reduced by 24, -4 magic armor.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource_images/10/icons_9041_btn.jpg Sneak Attack (Activable, Invisibility)

The Betrayer hides inside his cape, becoming invisible for short time. In this form he has increased movespeed and can break his disguise with an incredibly powerful attack.

Mechanics
1. Very similar to Nerubian Assassin's Vendetta.
2. You become invisible and obtain increased movespeed.
3. The first attack breaking this disguise will do heavy magic damage.

Hotkey: R
Mana Cost: 160/250/340
Cooldown: 90/75/60 seconds.
Duration: 30/35/40 seconds.
Movespeed Increase: 10/15/20%

[Level 1] Deals 225 additional backstab magic damage.
[Level 2] Deals 375 additional backstab magic damage.
[Level 3] Deals 525 additional backstab magic damage.

ITEM SUGGESTIONS (He's Int because of this, mainly):

http://i36.tinypic.com/2hydr0o.jpghttp://i37.tinypic.com/15xv0ja.jpghttp://i34.tinypic.com/zu9ts.jpghttp://i33.tinypic.com/hufwk7.jpghttp://i37.tinypic.com/nobrly.jpghttp://i37.tinypic.com/f4fbdl.jpghttp://i35.tinypic.com/2mxpi6t.jpg

[Kowzorz]

I like. NA was one of my more favorite heroes.

[Kryoburn]

I like that his invisibility is the ultimate, I hate how scout can do it any time pretty much with a tiny CD.

Mana snatch is pretty powerful, taking mana and hp. Maybe lower it a little, as in less hp more mana taken. I'm no expert though. :) If you get certain items in game he could be better than magebane at taking mana.

[Lethe]

this is even more imbalanced then NA. cool concept though

[Lolyness]

I'm open to suggestions of course, and I'm sure this is imbalanced right now, I just prefer to lower the numbers than raise them.

[_Archangel_]

It's good, but the Mana Burn is highly imbalanced, and always has been in DotA for a very long time so it was recently changed to rebalance it. I suggest changing it to match DotA's (Burning 4x intelligence, with 35/25/15/5 second cooldown).

Don't like the passive much... Not much synergy or anything there.

By the way, your hero is an intelligence hero, unlike NA. You need to INCREASE the manacost of his spells to balance that, not decrease them.

Holding vote.

[Lolyness]

U sure made a point, ill tweak all that in a few mins

The idea of the passive is to difficult fightbacks. Oriented for team fights of course.
Anyway I agree that the passive could use a tweak to increase its synergy.

[Lolyness]

Well, many changes now are up, I hope u like them.

For future comments, pls say suggestions too. Or at least where should I focus when tweaking.

[Alakazam2]

I loved NA and your concept cosmetic wise is awesome! T-Up!

[_Archangel_]

Much, much better. T-Up!

Though the third skill's name should be changed, "Smelly" rofl :D

[Hueter]

nice skill ideas, i think the numbers arent balanced like they are now, but i like the whole concept idea of a changed NA

1. skill : too much everything: huge dmg + long stun + long cc
2. fine
3. makes skill 1 even more overpowered
4. is cool and u carnt sneak arround like any other stealh unit in fact of your 3rd skill, i hope thats not a reason not skilling it for players...

[Lolyness]

well thanks for comments. Anyway hueter this hero isn't anything completely new

The first skill is just like the old impale from NA, the only changes is that it damages only 1 units but cc's more.

[Hueter]

but you can target a single unit? and it hits for sure?

[Lolyness]

yep, it hits for sure, just like any targeted stun.

Casting range is shorter than most stuns and mana cost is expensive anyway.

[SEEEZZRR]

why would u ever want the passive to be toggled off?

[Lolyness]

because ur coming invi and you don't want your enemies to notice you.

[Delcoa]

Quick question about shadow cut, what does it mean to disorient the surrounding enemies?
Also, after the main target gets out of stun (primarily in levels 1 and 2) would the target then have disorient for the remaining time that it effects the surrounding enemies?

[Lolyness]

5. Only the main target becomes stunned.
6. The secondary targets become disortiented.
7. Disoriented works the same as Maliken's Fear.

All the answers are in the main post. If it is still not clear, the main target is the only stunned, the others are the only disoriented.

Disorient is just like Maliken's Fear (40% movespeed, lose control of character, perplexed, silenced, disarmed).

[XxItxX]

I like all the skills so far aside from the first skill. If that were to be applied I would like to see a increase in CD or a reduction of damage/CC time.

[ForTheSwarm]

Can you toggle the passive without breaking stealth?

[Lolyness]

5. This ability can be toggled off by hitting its hotkey.
6. Toggling Smelly won't break invisibility or channels.

read before asking =P

but thanks for the feedback.

I've been thinking the first skill would be fine being this hero Agi, but he's Int, so yeah, I'll tweak it right now.

[Lolyness]

well, Shadow Cut is nerfed.

[Distort3d]

I like. But disorient is incredibly powerful. Silence, loss of control... ****. on a skill with 11 cd??

I think that the secondary targets should just be maimed instead.(sword throw). Cuz Maliken gets TWO seconds of disorient on his ulti, and that's already powerful as hell.

[Lolyness]

Consider Maliken's Disorient coming from up to 1200 range and in a 400 radious.

This has 400 cast range and 300 radious.

Still waiting for more suggestions on how to balance Shadow Cut definitely. For the moment I'll keep it with the last nerf.

[Kalevra2k9]

hice! but i think the passive skill its too imba, i can be a target debuff skill with increased effects

[Lethe]

T-up, I will be a happy when NA is finally ported, whether it be this port or something else

[Lolyness]

I know the passive its better than other passives that do similar stuff.

But you must consider the range of effect being 350.

Soulstealer's has 900
Magebane's has 600

We also know that NA was considered so imba because of his lane control, and thats something he can't do that good now having the cooldown of Mana Burn so nerfed.

So, this aura and Shadow Cut are the late-game team supporter skills Betrayer has to offer.

Let's say this hero fills a more party oriented role than NA.

[Lolyness]

bump

[Renraw]

I like it... At least you could counter early game int heroes...

[Lolyness]

bump

[BoBoStariaN]

NA is essential......a must have counter for many disgusting support heroes( nym..etc

[Lolyness]

bump

[JaneJacobs]

followed the link on your signature, its a nice port, even when i think NA cant be replaced.

pestilence looks like him at least lol

t ups

[Lolyness]

bump

[Lolyness]

bump

leave comments pls

[Kalevra2k9]

imo

nerf the passive and give less cd to burn mana

[docterj208]

I like, but, I am not sure why this guy is INT

[nos_nevets]

Its nerubian... only uglier and without carapace...
but if you think about it. scout already takes nerubians role as the quick kill assasin of HON.

[atdsutm]

they should remake scout's disarm and remove its bonus damage and attack speed buff.
atm it is better compared to nerubian assassin's cloak in every single way (and its an ultimate)

[yyr_]

Nerf first 2 skills
1) Its pretty much Hammerstorms skills. disorient tate is pretty much a stun all but in name. Make it single target, NA isnt an AoE hero.
2) Burns up to (4x Intelligence of Target) mana. Damages the target for 1 magic damage per point of mana drained. intel give 13 mana, so in theory your taking 1/3 of their mana and burning that again in life, nerf the numbers

[Lolyness]

I'll be tweaking this guy in a while.

The burn its taking the same amount of mana as it does on dota, but as you say, it seems imba.

As for the Shadow Cut, it is single target, it just damages the main target, but heroes that can't disrupt groups of enemies are crap nowadays.

[Lolyness]

Mana Snatch reworked again. Looks pretty good now, but of course I want other people to agree with that.

[Lolyness]

bump b4 bed =P

last bump btw, tired of this guy

[Manveru1]

I think that's a good port. I love the wererat theme ^^ I was thinking of a char with that theme myself but nothing really came to my mind... I would like to see him in game.

[YxBirger]

I love the new look! Maybe you should change the name and animation of the ulti.. I mean it's a rat so maybe instead of going invisible he is under the earth digging his way to his enemies and attacking them with powerfull surprise attacks! :D

Otherwise i love your NAport!

[codegeass87]

quick review..

1st skill - nice.. keep it (8/10)
2nd skill - good .. keep it (9/10)
3rd skill - bad.. i dnt really like the aura it doesnt synergize (1/10)
ulti - good.. keep it (10/10)

verdict.. 28/40 T-UP!

[danne035]

this hero i wanna see in the game:)

[Lolyness]

Bumping again since a lot of votes were added last night.

Anyway, I usually take every suggestion, but I really think the aura does synergize as it reduces magic armor, increasing damage output of Betrayer and his team, and also disrupts enemies, especially casters, making this hero more "caster counter" oriented than NA was.

I no that magebane its TEH counter for casters, but there are plenty of casters and there shouldn't be only one hero to counter them. They also fill a complete different role besides countering casters, being this hero a ganker/nuker and magebane a carry.

[The_Unhealer]

Great hero in my opinion, i wouldn't change anything except the passive.
That ability was suppose to prevent NA from getting instantly killed when he initiates a gank or a team fight. It granted him solid amount of armor and prevented him from near-instant death. Or if the enemy team does manage to take him out, it will still not be at no cost, he would deal some amounts of damage to them. My suggestion would be to make your Passive skill more attuned towards that concept of an ability. I like the Magic Armor reduction idea though, and nice of you to keep in mind the toggling of the aura in order to not give away your position when you Ulti.

[Lolyness]

As Smelly reduces casting speed it can't be instantly destroyed with it also. That difference of cast speed means you can cast your 3 damage spells before the enemy can cast everything on you.

Also, caparace was very circumstancial as you didn't use it on every game, there was games when it was better just to stick with stats instead of caparace.

Reducing both offensive speeds increases survival as it disrupts enemies in team fights.

As a huge fan of NA in Dota, I never like spiked caparace a lot, I never felt like people was afraid to completely destroy him because of it.

[Distort3d]

3rd skill - bad.. i dnt really like the aura it doesnt synergize (1/10)


Just to tell you loly. I like it. Although I did prefer the 4x their int as before more. Because now it just feels weak.

In my opinion. If you were going to keep the 4x their int mana burn. then it shouldn't replenish your mana. But now it's complete crap. 300 magic damage to someone with 122 int is not going to jacksquat to even the squishiest of characters. If mana snatch is gonna be this weak, it should at least restore your own mana.

@ codegeass
It DOES synergize. The ulti does MAGIC damage. shadow cut does MAGIC damage. the mana burn does MAGIC damage.

nuff said?

[Lolyness]

Well I can't keep changing it and then changing back again and again so I'll just keep it this way as S2 won't implement anything from anyone anyway.

[Distort3d]

Not true. Look at Nome's Wisdom lol.

[Lolyness]

yep, they implement mods suggestions, 3/4 of them are.

[The_Unhealer]

One thing about casting speed....it really makes no difference....
It is not like the casting time of spells is doubled, the difference is very minor... at least that is what i can tell from actually seeing abilities cast around Magebane, and when not around him.....really not different.

I would like to see the formula however?

The Spiked Carpace as said wasn't feared, it granted you around 20% dmg reduction, but it's important part was the damage return in melee combat, ofc it was a choice only when there were a lot of melee heroes, but the ability used to retaliate 40% of the damage back to the attackers making them suffer for killing you.

[Caspa1]

hope i will see him on the next update

[Hueter]

Congratulations for popular suggestion, good job!

[kaboo_]

skill questions:
1. shadow cut - 400 range cut? how? is he something like mr. fantastic?

2. smelly - what for is it toggleable if it has no bad effects on you or your allies. also somewhat similar to devourers toggleable slow.

3. sneak attack
a)"Mechanics - 1. Very similar to Nerubian Assassin's Vendetta."
-where is the difference?
b)he has some kind of magic cape that it makes him invisible?
c)where is the move speed from? normally when i hide under my cape i dont see anything and i move somewhat more slowly than when im not hidden under it...
d)the icon does not fit to other icons visualy

hero question:
1. are u sure with the idea that a rat with a dagger in one hand and skull in other has to be a intel hero?

rework ideas:
-visual - remove the skull from his hand
- hero - change from intel to agi
-shadow cut - change range to his attack range or remake whole spell
-mana snatch - change his dagger to a legendary dagger that can burn enemies mana
-smelly - remove toggle
-sneak attack - change icon and description

[codegeass87]

i suggest u replace your aura with this

Plagued Skin: Passively Grants Betrayer 2/4/6/8 magic armor and 1/2/3/4 physical armor and Every melee attacker that will land a hit on betrayer will suffer 20/30/40/50 magic damage in every hit.

just a suggestion

[codegeass87]

skill questions:
1. shadow cut - 400 range cut? how? is he something like mr. fantastic?

2. smelly - what for is it toggleable if it has no bad effects on you or your allies. also somewhat similar to devourers toggleable slow.

3. sneak attack
a)"Mechanics - 1. Very similar to Nerubian Assassin's Vendetta."
-where is the difference?
b)he has some kind of magic cape that it makes him invisible?
c)where is the move speed from? normally when i hide under my cape i dont see anything and i move somewhat more slowly than when im not hidden under it...
d)the icon does not fit to other icons visualy

hero question
1. are u sure with the idea that a rat with a dagger in one hand and skull in other has to be a intel hero?

maybe you change the description.. "betrayer digs a tunnel underground that enables him to stalk his prey untraceable"

[Jack_3d]

Love the artwork, seems like a really popular hero. I loved Nerub in DotA, Ulti makes him versitile for ganks, get aways + Dagon... ouchtown

[Lolyness]

bump

[kaboo_]

bump
read before bump, or reply smthing ...

skill questions:
1. shadow cut - 400 range cut? how? is he something like mr. fantastic?

2. smelly - what for is it toggleable if it has no bad effects on you or your allies. also somewhat similar to devourers toggleable slow.

3. sneak attack
a)"Mechanics - 1. Very similar to Nerubian Assassin's Vendetta."
-where is the difference?
b)he has some kind of magic cape that it makes him invisible?
c)where is the move speed from? normally when i hide under my cape i dont see anything and i move somewhat more slowly than when im not hidden under it...
d)the icon does not fit to other icons visualy

hero question:
1. are u sure with the idea that a rat with a dagger in one hand and skull in other has to be a intel hero?

rework ideas:
-visual - remove the skull from his hand
- hero - change from intel to agi
-shadow cut - change range to his attack range or remake whole spell
-mana snatch - change his dagger to a legendary dagger that can burn enemies mana
-smelly - remove toggle
-sneak attack - change icon and description

[Lolyness]

It was on purpose that I didn't reply your suggestions.

1. Shadow Cut: Its "Shadow Cut", not "Mighty Cut", this hero is a dark caster, filthy and disgusting rat, but he knows how to cast. He extends the range of his knife by using magic.

2. Smelly: Because you don't want your enemies to notice you when you're behind them with ulti turned on.

3. Sneak Attack: Ya, its a magic cape. The speed also comes from his magic cape which allows him to become invisible and break the wind while running. Finally, who cares about the icon? they will change it anyway if they implement this.

Hero question:
1. yes.

Rework ideas:
- no, he uses his skull as an implement to channel magic. Only Mana Snatch tho.
- won't change him to agi, he's much better being int, allows more item pool and better builds as he won't have to sacrifice everything to get mana.
- shadow cut: explained already
- mana snatch: its fine
- smelly: explained already
- sneak attack: how does that matter at all with the concept.

As you may know, if S2 would implement this hero, it will be changed deeply, mostly only the skill ideas are important. Everything about the format is basically to make it easier to read and/or understand. AND for publicity of course.

As you may see if you read the full story of the post, I take most suggestions and do something about them, yours simply don't feel like they matter at all. So if you still don't like him, I invite you to vote: No.

[kaboo_]

its yes then for me :P

[HClCaSaT]

I approve! Love the rat aesthetics and your take on NA's abilities for HoN.

Please check out my suggestions.

[Pijn]

I really like this idea, but if i remember correctly at level 16 NA could use ulti and use it again by the time it had finished, i would quite like that to happen again cos it kind of gave him a perma invis but at high mana cost, but then i can also see how this can be abused to get 2 nukes off if timed right.

[Lolyness]

NA had to be visible for 10 seconds timing level 3 ult.

Betrayer has a 20 seconds of difference, as he can use Behemoth's Heart to reduce the CD of his ult to 54 seconds.

[Mastion]

Really like how he is an Int hero instead of an Agi. I also enjoy how you changed the mana burn.

[BigBadLion]

Ho, he's a rat! And he's very smelly too haha. Anyway, I like the idea! More mana draining heroes would be one nice addition to the game!!

[Zeritel]

Verry cool, I always loved playing NA.

Since your thinking of making him an int hero have you given any consideration to if the ult boosting staff will effect him any?

[_Archangel_]

Good to see this made it. :)

[Mittsies]

Awesome port, T-UP.

[FordBronco77]

I honestly want to see this hero implemented but all the Hellbourne casters are taken up :(

[Lolyness]

Verry cool, I always loved playing NA.

Since your thinking of making him an int hero have you given any consideration to if the ult boosting staff will effect him any?

I have thinked about it, but I'm not sure if thats a good idea if you think of balance.

Betrayer has many good item options already. For example:

http://i36.tinypic.com/2hydr0o.jpghttp://i37.tinypic.com/15xv0ja.jpghttp://i34.tinypic.com/zu9ts.jpghttp://i33.tinypic.com/hufwk7.jpghttp://i37.tinypic.com/nobrly.jpghttp://i37.tinypic.com/f4fbdl.jpghttp://i35.tinypic.com/2mxpi6t.jpg

...and maybe there are more good items for this guy. I don't think he needs Staff of the Master as an option too. But if he does, S2 would give it to him probably?

[W1nch3st35]

yes i want this just thought of this last night and was woundering is there any suggestions for a nerub port and here you are =) a great port love him and love the take you had on him !

[Lolyness]

bump, check my new hero pls ;)

[BrokenSaint]

Love it, looks like a really fun hero to play.

[docterj208]

ps, I would maybe add some items in the build to include one of the following:

http://i35.tinypic.com/256s1g2.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/1iogwj.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/172r06.jpg

[Blaky039]

Nerubbian is my favorite hero, and I REALLY like this one, its so much better, the design its ridiculously good (Baddass pic where did u got it? :P

The skill Smelly seems so much better than the caparace, I always went for stats instead of caparace...

HOPEFULLY IT'LL GET ADDED!!!

[Blaky039]

skill questions:
1. shadow cut - 400 range cut? how? is he something like mr. fantastic?

2. smelly - what for is it toggleable if it has no bad effects on you or your allies. also somewhat similar to devourers toggleable slow.

3. sneak attack
a)"Mechanics - 1. Very similar to Nerubian Assassin's Vendetta."
-where is the difference?
b)he has some kind of magic cape that it makes him invisible?
c)where is the move speed from? normally when i hide under my cape i dont see anything and i move somewhat more slowly than when im not hidden under it...
d)the icon does not fit to other icons visualy

hero question:
1. are u sure with the idea that a rat with a dagger in one hand and skull in other has to be a intel hero?

rework ideas:
-visual - remove the skull from his hand
- hero - change from intel to agi
-shadow cut - change range to his attack range or remake whole spell
-mana snatch - change his dagger to a legendary dagger that can burn enemies mana
-smelly - remove toggle
-sneak attack - change icon and descriptionrus?

[Trilles]

The first skill is too much over power. The Hero's visual concept doesn't fit with his skills.
Sorry, just my opinions...Oh and. First skill is OP for me 'cause a lot of heroes have skills that does stun and damage, yours not only does stun, but does make everyone around disoriented too... And also does a lot of damage, with a little cooldown and not too high mana cost.

PS: I will not vote. I think it's better to vote when the Suggestion is not going to change anymore... You can change this, so if you do I'll vote yes. HoN needs NA to avoid some lane controllers, carriers and suporters... Like Vindicator, Behemoth, Electrician, Madman, Swiftblade, Nymphora, Jeraziah and others.

[AngryWeapon]

I miss NA and would love to see him back.

Yes!

[MrBeautiful]

Why nerf his stun and his ultimate?
Na´s main target are fragile int heroes wich don´t have much armor until later in the game anyway. Hood is one of the most popular items out there is gotten on a lot of heroes so this would rather be a nerf on NA. And the stun was perfectly balanced in dota just a simple impale. Nothing against suggesting new stuff but i can´t see this guy will live up to the original NA. I can only see his ultimate being stronger then the original one in late game wich isn´t NA´s Hightime. He rapes any fragile hero in Mid and thats his job having a lategame buff and a midgame nerf will weaken him

[Doomhammar]

This is awsome. Just love that its bit like NA but still very original. T-Up

[DentistDrill]

love it.

[Lolyness]

The first skill is too much over power. The Hero's visual concept doesn't fit with his skills.
Sorry, just my opinions...Oh and. First skill is OP for me 'cause a lot of heroes have skills that does stun and damage, yours not only does stun, but does make everyone around disoriented too... And also does a lot of damage, with a little cooldown and not too high mana cost.

PS: I will not vote. I think it's better to vote when the Suggestion is not going to change anymore... You can change this, so if you do I'll vote yes. HoN needs NA to avoid some lane controllers, carriers and suporters... Like Vindicator, Behemoth, Electrician, Madman, Swiftblade, Nymphora, Jeraziah and others.

I can see you didn't notice Shadow Cut only damages and stuns one target, disorient is just for surrounding units and the AoE is lower than most ranged heroes range, so I don't see the big trouble.

I'm not changing this hero anymore btw, I'm not even playing much hon atm as im incredibly dissapointed of the devs/admins. Too bad hon graphics make me despite dota for being ugly now... I really miss a balanced/made by pros game.


Why nerf his stun and his ultimate?
Na´s main target are fragile int heroes wich don´t have much armor until later in the game anyway. Hood is one of the most popular items out there is gotten on a lot of heroes so this would rather be a nerf on NA. And the stun was perfectly balanced in dota just a simple impale. Nothing against suggesting new stuff but i can´t see this guy will live up to the original NA. I can only see his ultimate being stronger then the original one in late game wich isn´t NA´s Hightime. He rapes any fragile hero in Mid and thats his job having a lategame buff and a midgame nerf will weaken him
well it isn't :s same damage, same cooldown, shorter duration...

most complains about this hero come from people that can't read

[PedoPoh]

why must it be a rat. Seriously need more cool looking hero

[Sarcastastic]

I think he was perfect the way he was, as an agility melee. I'm disconcerted by people's fascination with melee intelligence heroes. Is it because it's seen as 'unique'?

[Lolyness]

there are many justifications for the main atribute swap, ur free to vote "no" tho :)

[Legit473hW1n]

Food for thought: Betrayer is not a word. And this is IMBA to the max.
My personal input, just needs some modifications. I won't vote yet though.

[ILiekTurtles]

I most of all enjoy (besides that we get NA) is that the hero isnt geared toward Harkon blade, but its the most viable choice. Gj

[`PiE]

i really like the idea alot.. maybe change smelly a bit.. but besides that he is pretty much na.. :) wp

[Sclampf1]

smelly needs change!

what is the advantage to have the aura toggled off? if there is none, its op!

plus: it should break invis when you toggle on

[hAtE_]

A ratlike assasins character sure rox but I think there should be another concept for the "Smelly"

[Darkappostle]

Overall very nice idea, I like the small changes here and there. I would very much enjoy seeing this hero in game

[Vanarchy]

First of all, this hero is melee int - which I personally like. NA had lower base int and int gain while possessing 3 active abilities (2 of them spammable), so your idea of making Intelligence the main stat compells to me. Overall concept (I mean model and story) is original, especially to HoN, because compared to DotA it has many unfilled hero slots. Personally, I have only one complaint about your skills:

Mana Snatch - adding (+2x int mana burn) to this ability means increasing his efficiency versus other Int heroes, but it also means that comparing to 260 manaburn NA could get by level 7, your version will burn a lot less mana from carries and tanks. Yes, I understand that Betrayer wants to steal secret lore from Legion - and logically that means that he dislikes Intelligence-based heroes more then others, but current metagame is ruled by well-farmed carries - so I don't like having weaker response to those (burning 150 of carry's/tank's mana at level 7 instead of 260 is a big nerf). Considering that Betrayer has an aura instead of armor-increasing/armor-returning skill, it makes him even less adapted to confronting carries.

P.S. T-up for overall vision of how NA could look like in HoN.

[Av]

Don't like the passive, sure it helps a bit in team fights but i'd like to see more synergy. Vote witheld for now.

[Av]

Food for thought: Betrayer is not a word. And this is IMBA to the max.
My personal input, just needs some modifications. I won't vote yet though.

Betrayer is a word. And if anything, this port is worse than old NA. Plus you are a rat :/

Edit: Sorry for double post.

[Nems]

Gimmi NA Now!
T-Up, HoN needs moar anti-casters

[Chipper]

NA should always have been a rat, not a beetle.

[Teddy_oPolvo]

Really nice.. I really miss NA

but i think he should stay AGI, because INT he would get more imba than NA, guinsoo and those stuff would give gim a lot of dmg beyond his natural nukes and disables...

[Melanthios]

I like, turn him into agi tho. I agree with the 3rd poster? The passive has minor synergy. Better off giving him return damage + armor like NA. Call it cloak of daggers or something...

I dunno, looks good tho.

Possible model? Should make him look like Witch Slayer, except, with a moving cape etc, and ofcourse no gun and such.

Like :)

[Firetongue]

wh00t recommendations!? A hero who should play without any boots!

[Solid007]

I really like your port , and dont agree with those who want to make him an agi hero .

[Piava]

Base stats and statgain: Seems decent, nothing special but not bad either. Could use a higher mp/hp, but then again the hero overall is great so you might want to leave things the way they are.

1. A very good skill over all, actually it does look to good atm. If you go with low projectile speed it could work though. I liked impale too though, I guess it could work either way.

2. Might need an increase on the set amount, I don't care much about the dmg increase, NA's lane control came from ppl being unable to use their spells.

3. I like overall, fits his theme better than Carapace, would be cool to see a minor buff with the skill draining mana though. You've made him int so I'd like to see a manaheavy skillset.

4. Not much to comment on, it's Vendetta alright. Looks solid and allows him to keep his ganking style.


Overall T-up, good job. The only hero I miss more than NA is Morph, and this port seems to be awesome.

[BoBoStariaN]

I want my NA, mf..I want my NA back.., where is my nA

[sQuibba]

SKAVEN?!

haha i loved the hero concept in dota, just hated the model

hope this gets made

i love NA :D

[masschickens]

make a new skin plz and it'll be a good idea and the move smelly is a pretty bad idea

[Hyaenodon]

Very good Concept i like the fact that it is based on WH Skaven!

[TopolinoDJ]

nice !! voted yes! seems a more original version of anub arak!!

and the character skin is really very very good!!

[TheWh0]

Hey, we already have Shredder on the Legion.
T-UP FOR SPLINTER ON THE HELLBOURNE!!

[IMMvp]

Numbers can be discussed, but im already in love with the visual design and playstyle since NA is a pretty cool hero.

Most chars in hon become funnier than their port/semi ports in hon for some reason for me.

Example valk seems more fun than mira etc.

[SpikeNL]

This is the best hero suggestion ever ! I really think that bringing this NA semi-port to HoN will make ALOT of players very happy. I have red alot of hero suggestions, but non of them come close to this one. This semi-port of NA should at LEAST be considered as a playable hero on HoN.

[Kinatas]

Impressive artwork !
T-Up

[Hutanic]

My favorite hero from dota.

[Capitolism]

Here's my concern with a hero like NA being dropped into HoN. I think NA from Dota was most likely my favorite hero. Timing your ult properly for cooldown and use meant that you could essentially participate in ganks almost every 2 minutes. Extremely effective and dangerous hero.

My concern is, and of course I might be totally wrong because I'm quite lazy and rather not do any research, but the map sizing versus the Dota map sizing seems quite different. To travel from middle to either lane is considerably shorter and allows a hero like NA to be contributing in ganks alot easier, and at level 16 with such a short cooldown on his ultimate he can travel in stealth way to easily and cover large distances.

[Quasar]

NA was crucial dota to counter invis heroes such as bounty hunter (similarly scout)
The magic reduction ability seems a little imbalanced, since it will make hero alot more lethal.

Good concept but I would say remove smelly or change it

[assbangers]

hmmm don't like the 3rd skill that much

[wrench]

I have to say, that is no wererat that is a Skaven, a ratperson of warhammer!

[Akahdrin]

Like the overall idea. His passive is kinda worthless and as an int hero will get destroyed hard and will not be a late game counter like NA was to agi carries (spiked carapace and a little tank gear).

Being an early / mid game ganker is fun and all, but if his late game is nil, it's not really that cool. Being AGI again and having a passive that does something to benefit himself would help, otherwise he'd be like a really weak tinker with no end game.

[Xelotath]

Would be my favourite hero if he'd actually get integrated into this game with this model. I just love Skaven :D

[SpikeNL]

Would be my favourite hero if he'd actually get integrated into this game with this model.

Totally agree !

[Dranock]

Seems like a fun hero :) I like the scaling of mana burn. Only thing I would change is the property of smelly, then again thats what makes him unique?

[B4K4157]

I like the idea of harkons on a hero with innate magic armor reduction :P
Smelly I think would be better named "Overpowering putresence" or something of a similar vein

Perhaps instead of a disorient on "impale", they could stand and vomit for a few seconds, to really fit the theme of the hero :D

Edit: also wow, smelly is the Tauren Chieftain's aura (Already a good ability) with an Attack speed reduction. I know these kind of comparisons don't mean much because of the enoirnment and what the hero is and all the other words that will be yelled at me, but still. Remove the -AS or lower the magic armor reduction, thats one hell of a passive

[SpikeNL]

Remove the -AS or lower the magic armor reduction, thats one hell of a passive

I disagree to remove the magic armor reduction, because the range of his passive is only 350. So he needs to be close range to make his passive work. At lvl 4 the magic armor reduction is only -4, blacksmiths flaming hammer does -5 armor reduction at lvl 4 and it can hit multiple targets from a long distance.

[Slayer1339]

not sure about the whole int hero thing...and his stun used to be one of my favorite aspects of him but i guess that lost survivability will come from that disorient thing kind seems like it takes the skill aspect away from his cc though

[HaseoThePKK]

Great idea, I really hope S2 considers a hero like this if not this hero exactly.

[Chirpzilla]

When S2 ports NA i'll kill myself the heros broken in dota they'll break him even more.

He's banned in every single competitive game played. You'll never see him in a match making game.

[Michinseki]

new heroes thesedays have too much synergy..where were the good old days when heroes actually have decent balance..
new heroes all can stun, disable, spam everything..
i seriously thing smelly is too powerful..

[Splendid]

couple of things.

1. NA was like the lamest hero in DotA in my opinion. His made-for-retards mana-burn annoy and his hit massive easy 3 button nuke.
2. Disorient thats not in an ulti = imba as balls. HAVE SHRUNKEN HEAD? TOO BAD It'S ME STINKY RAT!
3. -4 magic armor statically? you shitting me?

unfunny unplayable and unoriginal.

[Passthechips]

- Take the Disorient off of Shadow Cut.
- Add a slow to Shadow Cut that hits all units in between the target and the Betrayer
- Remove the - Magic Armor from Smelly.
- Increase the - Attack Speed and Cast Speed from Smelly.

Then this hero will be fine.

[Infas]

I really like N.A cuz you can do Mage N.A or Warrir N.A or even Supportive

[fornaxxx]

I like this hero, at first sight, i tough he was like scout. A sneaky bastard, a damned rat that always strikes from behind.

I though hon needed another kind of scout, because he is the only one of his kind and we all kind of hate him. Maybe a new hero would make it different, like this one.

I would prefer him that way and i would try this sort of gameplay, because there is something in me that makes me hate scout, and i will never use him.

[xXQuatchiXx]

W00T I love NA!

[InaneDugong]

Dang, I really like the concept. There isn't a similar character in game yet, so the theme is unique. The swipe stun/nuke could be a little op if it's a radius-based ability rather than a vector.

[Brad_Pit]

Skaven Assassin lol.

[Mikzcool]

Nice Hero concept.

Hmm.. Comments..

Slow and damage would be better than disorient imo.

How about more spikey hairs(additional armor) rather than smell?
He is a halfrat and half werewolf anyway.

Make use of his tail for 2nd skill. Maybe his tail has magical properties that can drain a foes mana. HoN's hero concepts are like this now. Making use of Hero Parts.

[shiN3]

GREAT idea, but too bad fayde pretty much "weasels" your idea right out of contention

[Pwnograhpy]

idk if its me but his base int could use a slight boost up to 20 or 21.. probably just me but meh lol

[Huet2]

btw casting should increase not decrease.. because casting time with less i good otherwise if its more its not good.. :) Thumbs up any way cool 3rd skill.. Its an anti-carry skill

[RUSS_YOU_AM]

I want this hero very.
Its full cool and i love it already now
YEES!

[levo]

I loved it, will not discuss the numbers but,
the idea is good, very good import and i definitely want NA in this game.
as i remember NA was agi hero, and he had higher agi/str gain but this guy seems a little bit squishy.
good change of the second skill and third skill.
i hope we can see him soon.
keep up the good work.

[xXArchlordXx]

would smelly look like Devourer's deacy?

[JarJar]

I love it. NA was one of my all-time faves back in DoTA, and to see a port would be amazing. I'm especially liking the passive skill. You got my vote.

[Curry]

Spellshards

[sebazz]

why hasnt this hero been put into the game yet? and why is the dev heroes not even being used anymore?

[Larceny]

This hero looked good back when Fayde wasn't invented. But to all those people who don't know who I'm talking about...

:fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: :fayd::fayd::fayd::fayd: