Satan (Lucifer Port)

[Hat_Truck]

Remake of
Lucifer - The Doom Bringer

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/character.gif


Why does this hero need a remake? This hero desperately needed to be remade because his skills and skill synergies were just awful. Nobody would even think about picking this hero in a game of competitive DotA anymore. Outside of pubs, his skills and roles pretty much lead to nothing. In lamans terms, he needs help.

I will be changing his 3 main skills and leaving his ultimate the same (He is The Doom Bringer right?). Having said that, his description will need to be changed in light of his new skills. I have taken the liberty of making a new (and much better) description for him.


Old Description: Lucifer was the leader of the Doomguard attack force of the burning legion in the first attack by the dark lord Sargeras. With his original master long gone, Lucifer grants his undying loyalty to the Scourge to finish what his lord once started. Devouring the insignificant for his greed while dissipating the souls of those brave and strong enough to withstand his strength and the heat of his fiery haven of burning earth, Lucifer takes no prisoners and makes sure those who persevere through his wrath die by the agonizing and burning pain of Doom itself.

New Description:
From Hell He came, without a warning,
The skies were very dark that morning;
And those who felt His presence near,
Were struck with doubt, consumed by fear.
He traveled to the Hellbourne Throne,
Decided to make it His home.
He let all of the evil free,
And then made His way to the Tree.
The foes He met, that fateful day,
Were Marked for death, and set aflame.
And those with strength enough to fight,
Were Doomed to hell, burning so bright.
A Flaming Blade made killing clean,
A Death Sentence to those who intervened.
Convinced that by His end of path,
That Tree would burn, and He would laugh.

Satan will have the same stats as before so:

Strength - 26 + 3.2
Agility - 11 + .9
Intelligence - 16 + 2.1

Range: Melee (150)
Base Damage: 53-69
Move Speed: 300

Before I continue by posting his new skills, I'll show you the list of his old ones:


Devour

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNRedDragonDevour.gif
Swallows an enemy unit for a short period of time, digesting it and dealing minor damage. Each level decreases the cooldown and mana cost and gives bonus gold when the devoured unit is killed.

Level 1 - Gives 10 bonus gold.
Level 2 - Gives 20 bonus gold.
Level 3 - Gives 30 bonus gold.
Level 4 - Gives 40 bonus gold.

Cooldown: 30/25/20/15 seconds.

Level 1: 50 mana, 30 sec cooldown.
Level 2: 45 mana, 25 sec cooldown.
Level 3: 40 mana, 20 sec cooldown.
Level 4: 35 mana, 15 sec cooldown.
Scorched Earth

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNWallOfFire.gif
Blankets the ground in flames, damaging enemies and healing the Doombringer. Also increases Lucifer's attack and movement speed.
Lasts 20 seconds.

Level 1 - 1 damage/health a second, 10% increased speed.
Level 2 - 2 damage/health a second, 15% increased speed.
Level 3 - 3 damage/health a second, 20% increased speed.
Level 4 - 4 damage/health a second, 30% increased speed.

Cooldown: 10 seconds.

Level 1: 60 mana, 10 sec cooldown.
Level 2: 60 mana, 10 sec cooldown.
Level 3: 60 mana, 10 sec cooldown.
Level 4: 60 mana, 10 sec cooldown.
Lvl? Death

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNGuldanSkull.gif

Dissipates a piece of a target's soul. Deals 250 bonus damage if the target's level is a multiple of a specific number or 25.

Level 1 - Deals 100 damage, 6 multiplier.
Level 2 - Deals 150 damage, 5 multiplier.
Level 3 - Deals 200 damage, 4 multiplier.
Level 4 - Deals 250 damage, 3 multiplier.

Cooldown: 8 seconds.

Level 1: 85 mana, 8 sec cooldown.
Level 2: 105 mana, 8 sec cooldown.
Level 3: 125 mana, 8 sec cooldown.
Level 4: 145 mana, 8 sec cooldown.How do these skills synergize together whatsoever? Honestly? We've got a nuke, a skill that makes you move and attack faster, and a skill that gives you gold. What kind of synergy is that? They have no connection and nothing in common. It's awful. They definitely don't build off of each other or complement Doom, his ultimate, which I will post later in this thread.

Here are the skills I suggest:


Chaos Blade

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/mithrilforgedswords.gif

Description: Forged in the firey pits of Hell, Satan's Chaos Blade is one of the most brutal weapons ever created. It burns with such infernal intensity that its cursed fires pierce through flesh and soul. Its hellish fires both consume and dehabilitate helpless enemy victims, destroying all foes in its unholy path.

Level 1 - +5 passive damage. 10 magic damage and 5% slow per second while activated. Lasts 4 seconds.
Level 2 - +12 passive damage. 15 magic damage and 10% slow per second while activated. Lasts 4 seconds.
Level 3 - +19 passive damage. 20 magic damage and 15% slow per second while activated. Lasts 4 seconds.
Level 4 - +25 passive damage. 25 magic damage and 20% slow per second while activated. Lasts 4 seconds.

Level 1: 25 mana to activate, drains 4 mana per second until disabled.
Level 2: 25 mana to activate, drains 5 mana per second until disabled.
Level 3: 25 mana to activate, drains 6 mana per second until disabled.
Level 4: 25 mana to activate, drains 7 mana per second until disabled.

10 second cooldown after activating at all levels.

Explanation: This skill seems a bit complicated at first glance, but in all actuality it's quite simple. By placing a point into Chaos Blade you gain passive bonus damage which remains all game. You also get the ability to "activate" the skill, draining mana per second, but dealing burning damage and slowing the target for 4 seconds after every hit. While the burning damage isn't exceptional, the 4 second slow helps chase fleeing enemy heroes. However, the mana cost per second is very steep. The "burning and slow damage" does not stack, it simply resets itself after every hit.

Artwork: As soon as you place a point into Chaos Blade, Satan's sword gains a minor burning effect, associated with the way The Doom Guard's sword normally looks in Warcraft 3. Prior to placing a point into this skill, his sword has no burning or special effect whatsoever, and just looks like a regular weapon. When the Chaos Blade skill is activated, his sword becomes engulfed in flames as you use it to cut down the enemy. As soon as it is deactivated, it goes back to the minor burning effect. Quite obviously, this would be extremely cool looking.
Mark of the Beast

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNSpell_Nature_Regeneration.gif
Description: Initially used to torture the massive amount of Hell's prisoners, Satan quickly discovered its usefulness in battle.

Level 1 - Propagates 10% of the damage done to the target hero to all enemies within a 400 aoe.
Level 2 - Propagates 20% of the damage done to the target hero to all enemies within a 400 aoe.
Level 3 - Propagates 30% of the damage done to the target hero to all enemies within a 400 aoe.
Level 4 - Propagates 40% of the damage done to the target hero to all enemies within a 400 aoe.

Lasts 10 seconds.

Level 1: 90 mana, 20 second cooldown.
Level 2: 100 mana, 20 second cooldown.
Level 3: 110 mana, 20 second cooldown.
Level 4: 120 mana, 20 second cooldown.

Single Target - allied or enemy Heroes.

Explanation: Mark of the Beast is a pretty unique skill. It's a single target curse that you cast on a hero. While affected by Mark of the Beast, a percentage of the damage that the affected unit takes is also taken by all enemy units in a 400 aoe. The affected unit does not take any extra damage itself, it simply shares its damage with others. You can put it on allied heroes like Tanks to hurt enemies who focus him, or enemy heroes, especially ones you've Doomed, to make the damage more potent. Quite obviously, this skill would synergize very well with Doom.

Artwork: While affected by Mark of the Beast, the enemy unit would have an claw like WC3 Ladder's Roar above it's head, except that it would be jet black. This would let everybody know who to target/stay away from.
Death Sentence

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/icons_3818_btn.jpg
Description: Satan has the unholy power to sentence his enemies to death, and after a brief period of time, they will know endless torment.

Level 1 - After 5 seconds deals 50 damage and stuns for 1 second.
Level 2 - After 5 seconds deals 100 damage and stuns for 1.5 seconds.
Level 3 - After 5 seconds deals 150 damage and stuns for 2 seconds.
Level 4 - After 5 seconds deals 200 damage and stuns for 2.5 seconds.

Ministuns target for .01 seconds upon cast at every level.

Costs 140 mana, and has a 14 second cooldown at all levels.

Explanation: Death Sentence is quite simple. It's a single enemy target spell. When you cast it, there is a initial .01 second mini-stun. Then, after 5 seconds, the target takes damage and is stunned based on the level of the skill. Obviously, instant cast stuns like Storm Bolt and Magic Missile are much better because you don't have to wait 5 seconds for the effect to happen; but I figured that with Doom's other skills, giving him an instant nuke/stun would be much too powerful. Even with the wait, he will benefit greatly. His Doomed enemies will only be able to run for 5 seconds before they are stunned and promptly dispatched by his giant Chaos Blade. Death Sentence CAN be purged.

Artwork: You will know this skill was cast on you because of the initial ministun (and maybe a cool Skull and Crossbones effect), then the Death Sentence icon will appear in your status bar. After 5 seconds it will disappear and you will be damaged and stunned.
Doom

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNDoom.gif
The target unit becomes inflicted with Doom. The afflicted unit cannot cast spells and will take damage per second.

Level 1 - Deals 40 damage per second. Lasts 12 seconds.
Level 2 - Deals 60 damage per second. Lasts 14 seconds.
Level 3 - Deals 80 damage per second. Lasts 16 seconds.

Cooldown: 180/150/120 seconds.

Level 1: 150 mana, 180 sec cooldown.
Level 2: 200 mana, 150 sec cooldown.
Level 3: 250 mana, 120 sec cooldown.So there you have it. As you may have noticed, Doom stayed exactly the same and can still be upgraded via Staff of the Master. This skill remake will make Satan a much more powerful and formidable enemy than before, and will give him the ability to inflict massive amounts of punishment upon his foes. Notice how I tried to keep all the previous strengths he had before, while only adding a few weaknesses into the mix. He can still farm well with Chaos Blade (the passive damage), he still has his ministun with Death Sentence, and he still has Doom, his most useful skill. However, he can now deal AoE damage to his foes, is a much better Hero Killer and Ganker, and is truly a fearsome sight to behold. His new weakness is that his skills are very mana costly, and he will be forced to build mana items to cope with this. This is actually a good thing because whereas before SOTM may have seemed like a waste of money, the significant amount of extra intelligence/mana will REALLY help him, whilst greatly improving his ultimate. All in all, I am convinced that these changes will make him shine in not only pubs, but also in competitive play; and definitely make him a hero worth having on your team.

Before I conclude my post, I thought I would add a list of skill synergies to give you some examples of how this hero is meant to work:

Synergies:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/icons_3818_btn.jpg + http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/mithrilforgedswords.gif
Casting Death Sentence initially and then chasing your prey with Chaos Blade will ensure that sooner or later, you get your man. As soon as Death Sentence expires, the target will be stunned and damaged and when you can attack him with Chaos Blade activated, he will be slowed and damaged enough to finish.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/mithrilforgedswords.gif + http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNSpell_Nature_Regeneration.gif
The constant burning damage an enemy takes while under the powerful effects of Chaos Blade works well with Mark of the Beast, in that a large percentage of the damage is propagated to all foes within the area. Very nice.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNDoom.gif + http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/mithrilforgedswords.gif
Most enemies will immediately run when Doomed, knowing that they have no hope of fighting. Your Chaos Blade can slow them and deal extra damage to make sure that Doom finishes the job.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNSpell_Nature_Regeneration.gif + http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNDoom.gif
Doom works incredibly well with Mark of the Beast, ensuring that a large percentage of the massive damage the Doomed target is taking, is shared by allies in a 400 AoE radius.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNDoom.gif + http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/icons_3818_btn.jpg
When Doomed, most enemies resort to fleeing the battle. Death Sentence can be used to deal extra damage and stun them, so that you can finish them off.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/mithrilforgedswords.gif + http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/icons_3818_btn.jpg + http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNSpell_Nature_Regeneration.gif
Death Sentence is used to stun the target so that you can slow them with your Chaos Blade. As soon as you start dealing damage to them, Mark of the Beast will ensure that all allies in a fair radius will take heavy amounts of damage as well. A good combo.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNDoom.gif + http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/icons_3818_btn.jpg + http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/mithrilforgedswords.gif
This deadly combo will ensure that your Doomed target will having a hard time escaping your Unholy Wrath. As soon as you Doom your target, cast Death Sentence. As soon as Death Sentence stuns them, you can tear them down in the awesome fury of The Chaos Blade and slow them until Doom finishes them off.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/mithrilforgedswords.gif + http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNSpell_Nature_Regeneration.gif + http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/icons_3818_btn.jpg + http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Wingflier/BTNDoom.gif
The Ultimate Combination of skills. If you have enough mana to use all four skills, you will not only be heavily damaging the very afraid and Doomed target, but will causing all of his allies in a large radius to share much of that damage as well. Very powerful and devastating to enemy teams.

Another important thing to consider is that this hero would greatly help the blink/AoE driven metagame. Doom shuts down any caster for the entire duration, while also preventing them from blinking away until it ends.

And that's the end of my post. I hope you enjoyed the ideas and agree with me that these skills will make Satan a very entertaining and fearsome hero to play.

Remember that numbers are just numbers and have no way been set in stone. Please vote on the concept.

Anything that seems imbalanced I can either nerf or buff depending on what people think. I just want Satan to be a fun and playable hero outside of public games. Please don't forget to post and vote!

Wing

[JakezuGD]

.......

I liek. Definite T-Up.

[Zaraky]

Well, it's not really a port, just the ult lol. Nice idea for the theme.

As for skill,
Skill 1 : Similar to Accursed Slow, but does damage at a mana cost. Seem ok.
Skill 2: A nice idea. Could be overpowered if used well.
Skill 3: Well, the concept of the skill is ok, butt he time it take to activate is too long, specially for a single target sell.
Ultimate: Simple old annoying doom :P

So yeah, good concept, seem to be a really good hero and his second skill would be deadly. Used with malkien in his ult form , which would do even more splash damage or using it with pyromancer That'd be deadly.

T-up, but modify third skill :P

[Torguish]

Okay, i like the idea. A lot but the Ulti maybe could be a bit different. Sick of doom. Yes, it's imba and stuff but something more nice, visualized. Don't have any ideas what that would be but if nothing else come in mind leave it like that =P.
And what Zaraky said, make some modification on the third skill =P.
Definetly a T-up! :>

Ps. Check out my own hero suggestion(s). Vote/comment/and suggest more =)

[Hat_Truck]

Ps. Check out my own hero suggestion(s). Vote/comment/and suggest more =)
Sounds good! Thanks for all the comments guys!

[PoopyDesires]

Though I'm not religious in any sort, knowing people that are might get seriously offended by this. I know we already have pentagrams in HoN but it seems like this would probably be better off renamed with a less known demon name.

[Hat_Truck]

I'm not meaning to offend anybody, I just thought Satan was just as common as Lucifer (his old name), which everybody knows is the devil's name.

It's just a video game, hopefully nobody takes the name too seriously.

[Zaraky]

Coming from Barfles, I'm not surprised lol... Anyhow... the hero should be in, no matter if it Lucifer or Satan or whatever lol.

So yeah, go check my hero as well u lazy punk! :P

[Hat_Truck]

Haha, you got it.

[Passthechips]

You could call him Acheron, another name for hell like Hades. I think it has a nice ring to it.

[PoopyDesires]

^
Yeah, I like that better. The only reason I brought it up is because I tend to hear Satan considered evil more than anything. But hell I'm not religious so I don't know much about that, was just thinking about it ^^

I like the twist on Lucifer though ofc.

[Hat_Truck]

Acheron is pretty cool. In the end S2 can name him whatever they want lol.

[iForkyou]

Ideas are nice, but give him back his lvl ? Death. Its the most awesome and rewarding skill he has, its also somekind of a tricky spell to use, because during laning phase, you have to be very careful with leveling up that spell and deny / preventing denies becomes a lot more important.

[NoctisFaytE]

Done I enjoyed Lucy in DotA new skills look at as well. Also agree with Doppelnull. Lvl? Death was just an amazing spell of trollage.

[Kietharr]

Yeah, if you're replacing anything on him it should be scorched earth. Devour is excellent for farming and lvl? death was excellent for dealing shitloads of damage early game. Doom is obviously very powerful.

Make scorched earth some sort of nuke/disable and you have an extremely good hero. Really the only thing keeping him from being picked is his lack of real disables.

[docterj208]

I would keep level death as his 3rd skill instead of your stun skill. Other than that, this character is pretty solid but you won't be able to keep his Dota stats. You will have to redo those.

Also, lucifer's abilities synergize with the hero because of his stats. Skill 1 lets this guy farm because he needs it in order to be effective (staff of the masters and pretty much any other items he would need for his build). Skill 2 helps out his ridiculously low base attack speed and makes him impossible to catch. Skill 3 actually synergizes with his ult because it helps him take people out with the dot.

[Jukkaprokka]

I liked the Doom Bringer in dota so i would like to get this hero on HoN

[Comis1]

Original Lucifer please. You can improve the hero for competitive without completely reworking him.

But at the end of the day there's nothing better than catching a hero at the perfect level and 2 shotting him with LVL Death and Doom.

[Kalevra2k9]

you cant change the ulti of doom, period. all the sinergy of the hero is based on doom a enemy and chase it with second skill and nuke him with lvl death, also was at most the best counter to paladin (jereziah) and many others.

but its your hero, u do whatever u want.

[Isin]

So the Mark of the Beast skill is like an AoE maledict that ticks as soon as the damage is dealt? o_________o

[shammma]

Your use of the work "port" instead of "remake" in your sig and thread title is misleading. I almost just voted yes without reading because I enjoyed luci and didnt feel the need to reread his old skills. Maybe you should chance the poll to read:

- I like the new remake of Doombringer, make him!
- I would rather have a direct port of the original Doombringer than a remake.
- I dont want to see anything resembling Doombringer in HoN.

I voted no for three reasons:

1. Mark of the beast is insanely too powerful, it needs a damage cap or replacement. That combined with nukes is simply retarded, as AoE damage already dominates teamfights.

2. FUN > FUNCTIONAL IN HIGHLY COMPETITIVE PLAY. Old lucifer was fine, and a lot of fun. No he was not competitive, but many heroes were not and most people who played dota did not play competitively. The same is going to be true with hon, generally the same heroes will be picked (and banned) for comeptitive play so the game's overall balance wont be affected much.

3. The new skillset is inferior to the common picks of highly competive play. In order to see competitive play he will need to fill the role you want him to have (looks like a ganker to me) better than a hero that is already used.


He does very well in public games of non-super-competitive team games. I have the feeling you never enjoyed playing him because you dislike how his skills synergyzed, well here is an explination.

Devour - In dota it's basically a midas as a skill with a shorter cooldown. Its great for preventing denies early and is incredibly powerful for farming. Used well, this skill allows luci to farm like mad in the early stages of the game and become a big threat later mid game. This skill loses a lot of potential in EM games because the gold/exp advantage is not as pronounced.

Scorched Earth - This is one of the best chaser/ganking skills in the game. Provides MASSIVE ATTACK AND MOVEMENT bonues in a HUGE area. Great for chasing and escaping. It has a low cooldown (the duration is twice the lenght of the cooldown) and very low manacost so its always present in a teamfight. It was easy to distinguish good and bad Doom players; good ones knew how to use this and bads didnt.

Lvl? Death - At worst it is a basic str-hero nuke with a ministun. Under the right circumstances its am extremely powerful and dangerous nuke with a low cooldown and low manacost. It's extraordinarly powerful for a non-ult if you are ganking heroes that match the multiplier, which is what you should be doing. To further clarify at skill level 3, Lvl? Death hits harder than level 1 pyro or lion ult. This skill becomes much less powefrul in EM games, where people level much faster and you have smaller windows in which you can gank.

Doom - Great skill. Works wonders for ganking or stopping casters in teamfights.

TL;DR - Old doom was tons of fun and his skills synergyzed well to allow him to be an effective ganker.

[Hat_Truck]

S2 specifically asked us not to make 1 to 1 ports of heroes, this was a big reason why I changed many of his skills.

New heroes only. DotA ports are allowed, but only if they're not one-to-one ports.

Another reason was because, even though a lot of people enjoyed him, he was not competitively viable. His skills could have been tweaked to make him so, but in my opinion he had the worst skill synergy in the entire game of DotA. That isn't to say that he didn't have synergy at all, only that it wasn't very good.

You can take any 4 skills and make some kind of rationalization of how they work well together, people do it all the time. However, true synergy will make the hero competitively viable; and the fact that Lucifer hasn't been for many years speaks wonders for that point.


FUN > FUNCTIONAL IN HIGHLY COMPETITIVE PLAY. Old lucifer was fine, and a lot of fun. No he was not competitive, but many heroes were not and most people who played dota did not play competitively.I think S2's goal is to make every hero in the game competitively viable, while making them fun and enjoyable at the same time. There's no reason why any hero shouldn't be as good as the others, given the correct situation. If a hero can't be fun and competitively used, imo it shouldn't be in the game; it's just a waste of space and needs to be changed.

Heroes of Newerth is balanced around high-level competitive play, it is contradictory to that balance style (and counter-intuitive to players) to include heroes that will not work there.

[Wraithlord]

1st skill seems good
2nd skill is unqiue and adds some disable
3rd skill REALLY needs a damage cap of atleast 600 damge at max level other wise i could see satan and magmus destroy a team with this.
4th skill seems like it lasts too long/does alot of damage. maybe lower the duration but make the dot tink for more damage to better sinergy with mark of the beast and death sentance

[Hat_Truck]

3rd skill REALLY needs a damage cap of atleast 600 damge at max level other wise i could see satan and magmus destroy a team with this.Third skill yeah, I was afraid people would find it overpowered. The best way to counter it (as with any AoE skill) is just not to bunch up as a team, which you probably shouldn't be doing anyway. 400 range is a lot less than most aoe spells have (at least ultimates), and should be easy to stay away from the affected person (or you can remove the curse).

I don't want to give it a damage cap, because damage caps on spells typically dumb down the game and make it less skill-based (which is why hardly any spells have damage caps), but I could decrease the aoe to 350 or 300, depending on what people think.


4th skill seems like it lasts too long/does alot of damage. maybe lower the duration but make the dot tink for more damage to better sinergy with mark of the beast and death sentanceDoom is the same as the old Doom from DotA, most people would agree that it is balanced.

Thanks for all the comments guys, keep them coming.

[Day7]

It's not lucifer.
NO!
bad skills.

[TGR1]

Pretty Nice.
Good luck ;)

[Ashur]

Gave you a positive vote but for goodness sake change the corny name.

[Hat_Truck]

Haha, you should have said, "For God's sake" change the corny name; then it would have been like a double-pun.

[Dukamok]

So this is more like a new hero with Doom as an ult lol...

Will read through and vote soon

[NecroBr]

liked very much this new Doom, anyone could send this to IceFrog's email for a doom's little remake? xD

[SEEEZZRR]

interesting, but i much perfered good old fashioned lucy

lvldeath was such a fun spell

btw being really mana reliant is not a new weakness, it has always been lucy's weakness

[Lethe]

Nice port. Never like the sound of "doom" though.

Or Satan for that matter.

[i3arryhall]

not original enough imo, to many similar skills in the game already, gogo doom ftw t-down

[Valorian]

Good idea, death sentence I think needs a bit of rework stuns seems quite long. Other than that I approve

[Vokpan]

id like the orginal luchi :( he pawn

[SYDTKO1]

I want to see lucifer, but not at OP's version, I want real Lucifer. Also, you're so wrong saying he wasn't a competitive hero.

[Blockk]

Though I'm not religious in any sort, knowing people that are might get seriously offended by this. I know we already have pentagrams in HoN but it seems like this would probably be better off renamed with a less known demon name.

People that get offended by that need to grow up.

[DavyJones]

Srry but... Mark of the Beast + thunderbringer = GG for all.... or ... Mark of the Beast + puppetmustard
It is indeed a quite interesting idea... but... it should get more balance, and yes, i want a kind of doom port =) (and it should have the devour) ability
And LVL death should also be there... is kind of... HIS ability...

Lightning Rod:
Deals 5/7/9/11% of enemy's current HP as damage in radius of 800.

Lightning Storm:
Damage: 210/335/460

and SOTM... who will survive? 1 hero with 3 behe...

[Aiden]

****ING NO!

Doom is one the most N!@$!@ heroes in dota - worthless hero that does nothing for his team and asinine as @$%^ to play against.

[rXp]

He was one of my favorites heroes ! Please bring it back or he will bring doom to you !

[Dederd]

****ING NO!

Doom is one the most N!@$!@ heroes in dota - worthless hero that does nothing for his team and asinine as @$%^ to play against.

did you even glance at the OP

[Trig]

Im not sure who strong this game is when it comes to religious believes, but as we know a lot of games and companies have come under a large amount of harassment due to using religious names... The hero looks fine w/e, but I dont think it will get the name Lucifer... those "omg games makes kids violent" guys wont let you "control" the Devil. : )

[HONYoda]

I liked devour early in the game. It helped pushing a TINY bit and also gave you some extra gold to buy items not too far into the game. Constant money stream, run in, eat the creep with highest health, run back.

Scorched Earth and Lvl? were retarded though. I completely agree with changing those.

I can't vote yes until you put Devour back in though. And nerf Doom a tad, if it's going to do that much damage, then remove the silence or make it silence for 1s every 3s. A constant silence from it is retarded.

[EpiX_Whiner]

I love it :)
First skill is fine, nothing special, but will help him the whole game. Also helps last hitting, so no need for devour

second skill seems like great fun, and people that find it OP is also those poeple that's getting ass raped by Behemoth, Tempset and Magmus because they hug
each other, because then they are "safe".

Third skill, why not? could give some nice "lol" feelings"

And ulti <3 love it, good old doom ****ing blink heroes!

Gj wing :)

[Cidawo]

i say this, remove the +passive dmg from first skill as doom already have one of the highest base dmg in the game.

toss third skill in the trash and keep dooms old nuke, it got more flavor and to many heroes gets stuns.

[dezi]

I think i would miss the burning ground but the spells fit. T-up from me.

[MinX]

People who suggest new heroes should really think about what they are posting.

You cant have an ulti like Doom which does insane dmg + silence, a slow ability and a stun, i mean this is ridiculious.

I say no to this.

[Hat_Truck]

You cant have an ulti like Doom which does insane dmg + silence, a slow ability and a stun, i mean this is ridiculious.Maybe instead of complaining you could actually offer some suggestions on how to fix it?

I can see that most people really like the concept, and I spent a lot of time on it.

His stun has a 5 second delay, making it probably the worst and least reliable stun in the game. It can also be purged or BKBed out of before it happens.

His slow is a 20% slow, only happens at melee range, and drains a ton of mana while active. Considering how expensive all his spells are, he won't be able to keep it on for very long.

Doom is doom, and yes, while it's good, look at Pyro's ult, Puppet's ult, Axe's ult, or Soul Reaper's ult. They are instant damage and they don't need silence, because when you are dead you are automatically silenced :P

Not to mention that Doomed targets can also be healed (by Jeraziah, Nymphora, Demented Shaman, etc.) AND they can also be denied by their teammate, preventing Doom (and his team) from even getting any gold or experience from the kill. They can also still attack while Doomed, which means they aren't completely useless after it's casted on them (especially for DPS heroes).

I could say something similar to you:

You can't have a hero which has an insane aoe team disable which lasts 4 seconds and deals heavy magic damage, has a 3 second stun, has an aoe damage nuke with a huge radius and hurts the enemy by a percentage, and also be one of the best pushers and farmers in the game!

See, saying something like that completely ignores the facts, and just shows your somewhat unjustified fears of Tempest.

[Bill_Braskey]

I played many games with doom getting stats and level? death and playing a nuker build, getting ult at 6 of course. I love the remaking of the skills. The timed nuke/stun spell is cool. The curse is interesting and goes well with dooms ult. Also, the first skill will help keep enemies near him so he can get some kills.

T-UP

[Omega]

Super cool idea. All mai t-ups are belong to you.

Edit: Read back a little and saw someone say they would miss the burning ground, and it gave me an idea!

What if, when you hit something with your doom sword, it splashed some lava or something on the ground and could have half the slow effect on enemies that walked over it? That'd be neat. *shrug* just sayin.

[UberBahamut]

To be honest, I have to admit i prefer the dota Lucy. He just worked soo well as a farmer & Single target nuke + silence.

Sure he may not of been top pick in high end line up, but was (for instance) gondar?

[Squiishy]

Sounds great, loved this hero in dota and hopefully can become a HoN hero. Tbh I rly liked his old moves and the new ones arent worse, but I like lvl death and devour but whatever it takes to be able to use him again.

[romi111]

lvl death skill is much better LOL

[Hat_Truck]

Sure he may not of been top pick in high end line up, but was (for instance) gondar?
Nope, which is why Gondar was not ported to HoN. S2 likes to make all their heroes competitively viable.

[Dasterin]

Well I have a few suggestions, but overall I like (Voting yes)

For one thing, I think the str growth might be a touch high considering the high int and the good abilities. Maybe like 2.9 instead of 3.2, it's not that big of a deal.

Also, he lacks any kind of skill that can really be used for farming, even late game. Which is an odd choice, considering that Devour was one of Doom Bringer's main skills.

Overall however, I like it, I'd like to see it in game :o. I did like Devour, but over all this remake makes him a nice support/tank hybrid. Could be pretty cool!

[Dully]

I didnt like having to cast the burning ring of fire continually, but normal doom was pretty decent, Even thought your idea is cool too, and ovouslly thought out. Maybe its a good idea for a new character?

[passislisk]

I seriously dislike the 3rd skill. 5 second delay for a single target nuke that deals less damage and hits fewer targets than hammerstorm's stun for example. If it has a 5s delay it at least needs to have a serious effect. oh no, 2.5s stun and 200 damage in 5 seconds, which is 5 seconds longer that their team has to get to them and help or an ENTIRE blink cooldown cycle, or almost a full cooldown of scout/madman invis. It's just not powerful enough to have a 5 second delay. I also feel the first ability should be mana cost per hit, not drain per second, as you've taken away the amazing attack speed that luci had in dota (scorched earth) and while the mark of the beast is pretty cool, I think it's going to be one of those really good spells against noobs that stick together and almost entirely worthless against good players. I would be much happier with a straight 1 to 1 port personally.

[siknoz]

Your poll is misleading....

Do I want a luci port? yes
Do I want YOUR luci? no...

[Squiishy]

yea ur remake is **** as, old luci was so much better.

[The_Unhealer]

GREAT however this will stop him from being a good farmer, lucifer can be a very good choice for a competitive game, great counter with doom, great lane control earlyon, great farmer, but people fail him...

t-up i like this 1

[Furosuto]

K....how to put this...

@ People worried about religious implications - ....really? Come on guys...its about getting Lucifer into HoN, not about his name...focus people focus!!!

@ People who thought Lucy didn't get into competitive dota - waffle mayo >_>

@ This idea - No. Simply put, its like a decent idea gone wrong. The original Lucifer was a great hero, and his skills actually worked well together. That said, Mark of the Beast....I actually had no problem with this skill until you called it unique.

Can all the WoW players in the thread raise their hands please? Just me? Darn...

Its a variation on the Palidan Hand of Sacrifice, but this time instead of moving damage from squishies to the tank, we're copy-pasting damage from any tank to the enemy team. I'm gonna have to vetoe this plan, on the premises that Hand of Sacrifice and Fatal Bonds put together is kind of against the premises of marriage, and go with option B: My bag of marshmallows.

[papirkurv1]

Great. Just that... no one likes a 20 lines long poem :A

[sebboo]

I agree with Furosuto, his skills worked well together. He was an excellent laner!

[DashOPepper]

You suggested getting rid of "LVL? Death", Doombringer's best skill if you used it right (holding off using skill points what what) ergo I do not like this at all.

[_SyLER]

nice concept man.. :D
keep it up

[sHoWTiMe]

This hero is awesome. But I finally get it lol: Maliken's ultimate looks exactly like a doomguard in warcraft!

[PooDiablo]

thats soooooo wank... (have only read the first post)... doom is soo much fun to play in dota... and maybe he is easily countered or the pros dont pick him... but he is so diverse and can be played imba support or imba killing... he is just imba throughout the game... i dunno how he can be slated like that soo much... although i do agree he is easily countered.

[gmastaub]

I'd prefer to see him still have an instant stun/nuke, but lose the weapon and gain his fire ground back. Perhaps the fire ground could use a little beefing up, mayhaps affecting his whole team? or adding damage to his attacks or something. The fire ground was an integral part of many builds though.

[Extreme_Cake]

It's a nice idea, but the 40% damage shared skill is going to present massive balance issues.

[Gorb]

I really like this suggestion (though the "New Description" seems rather poncy and overly verbose), however I'm on the fence about either including the Death Sentence or keeping LVL Death. Used to love LVL Death, it made enemy heroes avoid the hell out of me.

EDIT: Extreme Cake, numbers are numbers; they can be changed. What's important is the original idea. I find most homebrew (and indeed a lot of official S2 ports) are unbalanced in one form or another until they are implemented and tested for balance. I can see the damage share being nerfed to around 10/15/20/25% though.

[Kynarr]

I read the first 2 pages but realized that in a thread like this, it doesn't matter.

I like the idea, the hero sounds great, however, this is not Lucifer. This would be better as a stand alone hero(I.e. needs new ult) so they can port Lucifer faithfully.

That's pretty much it.





...

This please. The suggestion itself isnt bad, but Lucifer was such a great hero, I would not want him to be ported as something different. Btw Lucifer is used in compe =/

[darkwave]

voting it thumbs up... however a few questions/concerns/ideas.

1) make sure to specify that doom also stops items from being used as it did in dota.

2) death sentence could quite honestly use a buffing. i'd actually like to see it do MORE then the standard nuke, simply because of the wait, and given it's a debuff i'd assume it's able to be purged, unlike direct nukes. also considering doom's old nuke did 500 dmg on max lvl characters, it just seems a bit weak to me to lose so much dmg just for a small stun.

3) one of luci's biggest advantages was his ability to quickly farm gold, hand of midas + his skill and you could quickly out farm most other players of equal skill, i'd like to see some form of this... or atleast some skill that'd be useful for farming in some way... maybe make mark deal x% of the targets max hp pool if a unit under it's effect dies? just an idea though

[SevenNights]

I like the idea of a Lucifer port into the game. But i do believe he needs the farming power provided to him by Devour. Using this quite powerful skill he was able to gurantee a steady source of gold income regardless of whom he was laning against, granting him the much needed gold to purchase the items he needs to be effective in the later game stages. The 2nd skill is an interesting idea, but i think it would be too easily abused with all the aoe power in the current game with the likes of Tempest, Slither, Behemoth or my personal favourite aoe, Maledict (Cursed Ground) etc etc. For the third skill, again i like the concept, but really, five seconds between initial cast and stun, is too long.Unless you had some uber teamwork, such as a Valk stunning for the full five sec just as u cast, such timing would be nearly impossible. I noticed you havent supplied a cast range for the skills? Though often overlooked, they are a major factor in whether a spell would be overpowered. If this hero was to be made i would think it best if his name were changed from; "Satan". Lucifer could be argued as acceptable in War3 probably because it means; "Bringer of Light" and it was his name before his rebellion against God and his subsequent banishment to Hell. It doesnt carry the "infamy" as such as Satan does. As a side note, he is usually abrieviated to "Lucy" making him sound much less, well, evil. Though I personally dont care, i mean some people might dislike being able to "control" Satan. BUT i think others might enjoy KILLING Satan.
One more thing, i did enjoy the rather poetic introduction you wrote. Srsly good job on it. Just the last line of; "... and He would laugh" is kinda an anticlimax.

[Damballah]

I love you Satan, my father, my pride. You showed me the right things to do. Reject the poison of god. I open myself for you.

[Hat_Truck]

I love you Satan, my father, my pride. You showed me the right things to do. Reject the poison of god. I open myself for you.
[In Dr. Evil Voice] Riiiiiigggghhhttt...

[Miraculus]

Lucifer Port
Is this a joke?
I do not see anything similar to Doombringer!

[trYggpAz]

Nice spells and all, but IMO, I would like it if Doombringer would be a full port with lvl death and devour at least, not only his ulti ~.~ It sickens me to see a good hero gone to waste with only porting ulti.

[Rodelero2]

Awesome concept and yes he needed some synergy to be useful.

If this hero was ported it would be pretty cool.

[Vendrix]

T-up, he sounds pretty Bamf!

[rpg711]

I believe Doom's most strong point is his ability to farm farm farm farm farm farm like CRAZY... with your remake it kind of defeats the purpose of trying to carry with the guy... which really was the only viable thing he could do. The sword is hugely underpowered... accursed sword does the same thing EXCEPT it gives him ias and movespeed. If this thing isn't passive and requires mana/second, it sure as hell better be more good than accursed's spell.

[pineappledan]

i kind of like the idea, but chaos blade seems underpowered. accursed's sear is better, and doesn't cost mana.

[Hat_Truck]

I believe Doom's most strong point is his ability to farm farm farm farm farm farm like CRAZY... with your remake it kind of defeats the purpose of trying to carry with the guy... which really was the only viable thing he could do.Okay explain to me how +25 passive damage on a hero with already a ridiculously high base damage is not going to help him farm? Unless you are fail at last hits, this shouldn't be a problem. Also, he doesn't have the same role as the old Doombringer. Sure, the old one was meant to be a carry, and he pretty much failed at it and is hardly ever picked in competitively play. Satan is a lot more of a ganker but also with carry potential.


i kind of like the idea, but chaos blade seems underpowered. accursed's sear is better, and doesn't cost mana. You can't compare skills. Swiftblade's critical strike is way better than Madman's, the percentage to happen is a lot higher. Does that make Swiftblade a better hero than Madman? Most people would say Madman is better.

[Arctus_Tibal]

I like the idea of this hero, the Mark of the beast ability isnt actually fully unique, in dota Warlock has it, and its no where near as broken as people say, but then again Warlock's one is a fair bit worse, this hero seems quite late game though

[GentleGroove]

I have some ideas for Satan.
The ability to take the form of any unit/hero in the game. So you can be a neutral and the enemy and walk around looking for them. However when you are in this form you can't attack and true sight will reveal your true self.

[_Archangel_]

Why does this hero need a remake? This hero desperately needed to be remade because his skills and skill synergies were just awful. Nobody would even think about picking this hero in a game of competitive DotA anymore.

That is just wrong. His farming skill = fast Aghanim's, which reduces his ultimate's cooldown far enough to take someone out of a fight entirely in every teamfight. (70 seconds.) He gets even gets banned occasionally.

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/26351 - game where Doom got picked, and won

Furthermore Doom is NOT a carry, he is a caster

[Miraculus]

Also, he doesn't have the same role as the old Doombringer.
So this is not a port :mad:

Lucifer has three main skills:
1. Kill the creep and get extra gold
2. Cause great damage to the hero, but with some conditions
3. His ult

Keep this and do what you want

[Deoin]

Good suggestion, Lucy indeed had horrible synergy, although, lvl death should be added instead of the third skill, and maybe make skill 1 dependent on devouring a creep?

Acheron is a better name IMO.

T-UP

[Flat_Head]

with mark of the beast, he would be an absurd combo with sand wraith. ABSURD.

But I like, T-up

[Jermo48]

Ideas are nice, but give him back his lvl ? Death. Its the most awesome and rewarding skill he has, its also somekind of a tricky spell to use, because during laning phase, you have to be very careful with leveling up that spell and deny / preventing denies becomes a lot more important.

It's also a completely retarded ability that made him stupidly overpowered part of the time early and complete garbage the rest of the time. That's not a good way to balance heroes.

To the OP: I think it sounds alright except for the damage sharing ability that is pretty clearly overpowered, especially with some combos. Axe blinks in, Axe gets it cast on him, Axe taunts, their entire team is pretty much dead if they have even one fed carry. Or pair him with Pyro and/or Witch, single or double nuke the cursed target, completely rape the enemy team instantly. It's effectively a skill that gives your entire team splash... on physical attacks and spells... and possibly with a larger radius. Even if the radius is small, heroes like Kraken and Tempest will still make it horribly overpowered. It's just a super beefed up, castable version of Sand Wraith's ability...

[UrieLL1]

His sword skill is terrible as is and costs way too much mana for a strength hero to consider using it - especially when he doesn't have any passives??? This is really not a numbers issue, either. Any mana cost will make it useless.

I don't think strength heroes with 4 spells are good ideas in general.

[Miraculus]

It's also a completely retarded ability that made him stupidly overpowered part of the time early and complete garbage the rest of the time.
No way to Lucifer w/o this ability

[Hat_Truck]

To the OP: I think it sounds alright except for the damage sharing ability that is pretty clearly overpowered, especially with some combos.
That's why you vote on the concept, not the numbers. The AoE of that skill is only 400, fairly small. The affected teammate can spread apart from his team, and make the skill completely worthless. But the AoE or the damage given can be nerfed, nothing is set in stone.

I put it there because it's a really unique skill and cool idea which synergizes with his ult.

[Miraculus]

I put it there because it's a really unique skill and cool idea which synergizes with his ult.
"skills synegry" sounds good, but do not forget about the abilities of the original hero, he was a powerful nuke and good ability to farm, not only a powerful Ult >:-(

[Miraculus]

something like this:
1. Instantly kills a target creep, and gaining additional experience.
2. Deals moderate damage to target opponent. This ability has chance to hit twice. Chance depends on the difference in the level between Lucifer and target, higher difference = higher chance
3. Something, ur Mark for example
4. Doom

[Navelstring]

this hero sounds AWESOME =) *prays s2 looks this up* =D

[Jermo48]

That's why you vote on the concept, not the numbers. The AoE of that skill is only 400, fairly small. The affected teammate can spread apart from his team, and make the skill completely worthless. But the AoE or the damage given can be nerfed, nothing is set in stone.

I put it there because it's a really unique skill and cool idea which synergizes with his ult.

Then make it only splash damage done by the caster... or make it somehow link to another hero so only one person's damage splashes. They should have more cool linking abilities anyways. Abilities that share damage between two targets and such (it already existed in War3 Ladder and DotA even). Moving away is a silly argument unless, you have a team with no disables, and it wouldn't affect the two examples I gave (or plenty of other rigged combos).

There's no number I can think of that will make it balanced, yet still viable on anyhting but a team that is designed around the ability (which would be a retarded way to build a team). And it's not really that unique... It's just kind of an alteration on splashing attacks and Sand Wraith's skill.

And about LvL?Death, anyone who thinks that ability should exist again in any similar form is probably borderline brain dead.

[Miraculus]

And about LvL?Death, anyone who thinks that ability should exist again in any similar form is probably borderline brain dead.
You seem to have a great idea how to make a new powerful nuke?
Banal chance for double damage, just like critical strike ability, but for magic? =\

[MrSoada]

Devour was so good on him. Fast aghanims/staff of the master and then refresher.

It is just as important as doom (ok not really) and I don't care what the other two skills are.

[HasOnaH]

good work but the old one is just .. mmm perfect!
don't change him plz
I like the description very cool

[machoo]

why don't you make the mark do lvl? death at the end of the five seconds?

[Jiigman]

10 second cooldown after activating at all levels.

Dunno if this was already posted, but i love the skill idea but i think that the 10 sec CD after enabling will make it so that the user will be able to activate it if he gets jumped by another hero right after disabling the effect. I think it would make users of this hero much more cautious of when they use this ability if the CD was set after the skill was DISABLED. This way the user would no have it off of CD if, say they were jumped by a hero after killing another enemy hero with this skill on, they would not have this skill available and would not be able to get away or kill as easily.

Just an idea. :P
Love the idea, voted yes!

[smoothietime]

Yes, let's claim that an actually great hero isn't good enough and propose to make him the most OP hero in HON... C'mon really think about how well all 4 of those spells go together and youll under stand thats too much. Also his starting stats for such great power are too high if your going to make him that buffed... If that was really the new DOOM then he would be the most OP and overplayed hero in the game... But I've been hoping since I heard about hon that they would remake an animation for DOOM and bring him back WITH HIS NORMAL ABILITIES

[CheshireCat]

Yayz! Doom is needed. The item silence is just a incredible counter in some situations.

[VenomKing]

That poem, jesus christ, I'm sorry but it's so BAD!

[Maliwan]

I don't like the nuke. Keep lvl death. Very unique skill in dota, and is used for that extra punch after doom(WHEN THEY ARE THE RIGHT LEVEL)

[nszero]

how is this not in popular suggestions wingflier?

[JAH`]

I would like to see real doombringer port, his skill suggestions doesnt make him doom at all just a new character. Character would be boring to play tbh...

[imperialkit]

Good, a couple things need to be changed:

First skill shouldn't cost mana per second, instead mana per attack aka an orb because you aren't attacking all the time.

As for the cleave skill, why not just make it passive? It's not like its too OP

[shizza82]

Nah man, if you made a Satan hero for HON you would have to make a Jesus hero to counter him. Only fair! =D

[ClusterBeky]

Lol i maybe this hero in strenght contest.

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=88559(MIX of ezalor and invoker with a sword)
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=88427(like nightstalker but agi)

[Cainest]

Nice remake, that hero is never picked in DotA...There is a reason though :)

[IJollyRogerI]

this is kinda confusing

[ClusterBeky]

Ulty is pure anti hound and scout

[DrunkHON]

Meh. Bring the old Lucifer back, he was way better.

[MattieMatt]

:swif::swif:Dis **** is gay Teemo is better and more OP Teemo 4 life dawg :swif::swif: