View Full Version : Pestilence vs Pyromancer
iglenn
10-16-2009, 08:53 AM
Can pestilence beat pyromancer? if he can how to do that? and what items would be usefull:)
Tripwyr
10-16-2009, 09:26 AM
Are you talking 1v1 or in a full match? In a 1v1, get a Null Stone, a Shrunken head and a Shieldbreaker and you'll dominate him without trouble at all. If that isn't enough to help you survive, you can get a Shaman's Headdress to go with it. The Null Stone alone might be enough, if that's the case just go straight for Shieldbreaker after Null.
If you're talking about a full match, get 2 Bracers, a Portal Key, a Shrunken Head and a Shieldbreaker. Once again you can also get a Shaman's Headdress. A Null stone is less viable here because it can consume smaller spells instead of the spells you want, but it's still a good item if you want it.
Swarm -> Fly in -> Stun -> Hit = dead
Why the hell would you want a portal on a hero that can get max move speed?
Volshok
10-16-2009, 10:20 AM
Why the hell would you want a portal on a hero that can get max move speed?
Are you serious?
dandylion
10-16-2009, 10:22 AM
Blind initiation -> aoe stun can give you a huge jump and creates a psychological factor. If you're quick, you can also blink the aoe stun before it hits you, and then continue with aoe stun. If used appropriately it's very strong, but definitely a luxury item.
Tripwyr
10-16-2009, 10:51 AM
Blind initiation -> aoe stun can give you a huge jump and creates a psychological factor. If you're quick, you can also blink the aoe stun before it hits you, and then continue with aoe stun. If used appropriately it's very strong, but definitely a luxury item.
Blink dagger is not a luxury item on Pestilence. It is the most important item on him, and should be the first item you get after Enhanced Marchers, within the first 15 minutes of the game.
Pestilence's core build is:
Bracers x2 -> Enhanced Marchers -> Blink Dagger -> Shrunken Head.
Shieldbreaker and other damage items are luxury.
Wearisome
10-16-2009, 10:57 AM
Why is it a core item? I can't really think of it being especially useful on him.
I'm interested, please explain. :D
Tupimus
10-16-2009, 11:02 AM
It's only core if you need to initiate with Pestilence, which usually is not the case.
I'm not saying that it's useless. Far from it, in fact. But that 2150g can be better spent elsewhere, especially in this 1v1 scenario.
Workdawg
10-16-2009, 11:05 AM
Nullstone only blocks TARGETTED spells, so the only thing it would block is pyros ult. This isn't a bad thing, since it's CD is less than Pyro's ult, it'll effectively block his ult every time, unless he gets an item that targets you to eat the CD. A shrunken head or portal key would be better.
Tripwyr
10-16-2009, 11:23 AM
It's only core if you need to initiate with Pestilence, which usually is not the case.
I'm not saying that it's useless. Far from it, in fact. But that 2150g can be better spent elsewhere, especially in this 1v1 scenario.
Which is why I didn't tell him to get it in 1v1.
Blink is a core item because Pestilence has a powerful AoE stun with a larger radius than Legionnaire's taunt. It allows him to get in and stun without being disabled before he gets there. It also prevents him from taking extra damage due to flight during the fight, and makes sure that he has flight up for chasing instead of trying to chase at normal speed.
With blink a fight goes like this:
Blink in, stun, swarm, beat the **** out of first target. Team attacks and the enemies start running. Pop flight, chase down and kill 2 more people. Hat-Trick.
Without blink a fight goes like this:
Pop flight, get disabled and raped. Die, you lose.
OR
Pop flight, start running in, enemies start spreading out, Impale and only hit 2 people instead of 5. Swarm beat the **** out of someone and team runs in. Enemies start to flee, but your flight runs out. You try to chase but aren't fast enough, and they get away. Only one kill.
Blink is a core item on Pestilence for 5v5 fights. In a 1v1 against Pyromancer though, Null stone is your best friend. Sure he can get another item to consume your Null Stone, but if he has to do that he probably doesn't have any other items. This makes it easy to just fly in, stun, and kill him in 2-3 hits.
Workdawg
10-16-2009, 11:29 AM
Which is why I didn't tell him to get it in 1v1.
This thread is about a 1v1 scenario...
Tripwyr
10-16-2009, 11:54 AM
This thread is about a 1v1 scenario...
It is now. Originally it wasn't clear whether he was referring to a 1v1 or a 5v5 with Pyromancer on one side and Pestilence on the other. This is why I gave him advice for both 5v5 and 1v1.
Try reading the entire thread, especially the first response. People responded to me advising a blink dagger in the 5v5 section of my response, so I told them why I recommended it in 5v5. I never once told him to get portal key in a 1v1 situation.
Tupimus
10-16-2009, 12:00 PM
Well, the OP kinda specified "Pestilence vs. Pyromancer". Enough of a clue to say that it's 1v1, ain't it?
Wouldn't make the Nullstone myself, though. You're bound to just survive anything he throws at you with the usual build (Enhanced Marchers, Hood, Armlet, two Bracers, BKB if the Pyro's good), unless he goes for Refresher but at that point you should have farmed enough to just not care.
SmokeShow
10-16-2009, 12:05 PM
Get a BKB and it's over for pyro
Tripwyr
10-16-2009, 12:12 PM
Well, the OP kinda specified "Pestilence vs. Pyromancer". Enough of a clue to say that it's 1v1, ain't it?
Wouldn't make the Nullstone myself, though. You're bound to just survive anything he throws at you with the usual build (Enhanced Marchers, Hood, Armlet, two Bracers, BKB if the Pyro's good), unless he goes for Refresher but at that point you should have farmed enough to just not care.
Hood isn't part of the usual build, unless you're doing something wrong. The "usual" build is Enhanced Marchers -> 2x Bracers -> Portal Key -> Shrunken Head -> Shieldbreaker.
And no, Pestilence vs. Pyromancer doesn't imply 1v1. It implies that one team has a Pestilence and one team has a Pyromancer, it does not specify a number of teammates. While he may have meant 1v1, he may also have been asking what he should get in a 5v5 when the enemy team's Pyromancer is causing him trouble. I covered both bases, the most logical thing to do when I'm unsure.
Nullstone is stronger than BKB in a 1v1 against Pyromancer because he can simply wait until BKB ends in the case of a 1v1 then kill you very quickly. With a nullstone, his ultimate will be absorbed no matter what, and stun + wave aren't that threatening unless you eat 2 or 3 in a row.
PartyTrain
10-16-2009, 12:50 PM
Can pestilence beat pyromancer? if he can how to do that? and what items would be usefull:)
In a 1v1 setting prior to say level 16 where both guys are starting at full health? I doubt it. Prior to being insanely farmed, Pestilence gets kills through chasing people who are already at low health or stunning a guy and getting the kill with help from a teammate.
EDIT: To be quite honest, I don't believe Pestilence needs Portal Key. Only Shrunken Head. If you have Pestilence on your team, he's likely going to be your carry, so, you're going to need to spend the gold you would otherwise get for a Portal Key on, say, a Warpcleft (AFTER Shrunken Head, of course). If he were instead of being a semi-carry a pure initiator such as Behemoth, I would agree with you on Portal Key.
Rawrior
10-16-2009, 01:53 PM
All you need is shrunken head and he might as well just bend over.
JewishNinja
10-16-2009, 09:59 PM
well, since its a 1v1, might as well make it impossible to mess up.
Null stone means pyro's ult cant hit you. You should get headdress just to solidify victory.
Blink dagger to get the initiate on them, and just kill him slowly. :D
Final build: Steamboots, nullstone, headdress, blink dagger, symbol of rage, Helm of the black legion