Is Moon Queen only for noobs?

[Crlaozwyn]

I consider Moon Queen my best player, but I'm admittedly a noob and only play pub games to this point. In the hours I've spent reading on these forums, I can't find much mention of her - do the pros just avoid her? If not, please help me out with some build suggestions. I'd be embarrassed to admit what my normal item build looks like...

[JakezuGD]

Admit it, please =)

My apologies, but i can't help you out that much if you don't ex. post an image of your usual build or type it out. Also some of your playstyle could help.

[Sonek]

no, moon queen is not a n00b hero, and dont be embarassed to tell your itrem build, it all depends on the match
pub players like to buy lifesteal and damage for her ^^

[Crlaozwyn]

Normal build is:
Beam
Glaive
Beam
Glaive
Beam
Ulti
Beam
Glaive
Glaive
++Dam
++Stats

For items, I've been getting enh marchers first, followed by eldar parasite. SotM next, and after that it's up in the air. I know it's terrible, which is why I'm asking for help :)

Sorry, forgot to post play style. I usually solo mid, cast a beam at enemy hero right away and save the other until they attack or get low. Once I have my ulti, I wait until creeps are dead and get behind them for an easy kill. I get staff asap because 4 hits of ult isn't enough even in midgame. If the game is long, I may pick up a shroud to get close enough to make my ult count. I push lanes more than anything else, but enjoy pvp the most.

[DenyTheTruth]

That's not terrible at all. I would possibly go with one of the other lifesteal items, however. Eldar parasite's attack boost is nice but the extra damage you take will end up killing you quicker.

I would recommend getting a whispering helm. The abyssal skull isn't made for ranged heroes (you don't get lifesteal if you're ranged) and the whispering helm could turn into a Symbol of Rage which will make your survivability skyrocket. Plus you can control a creep.

Just keep in mind that you don't get lifesteal off of your attack bounces. Only the initial hit.

The problem with MQ is that she's easily countered. A Shaman's Headdress/Barrier Idol completely shuts her down.

The SotM and EM are a must for her. Maybe, if you get the money, go for an assassin's shroud so you can get near someone while they're by themselves and then ult them and beam them and then kill them. :D

[JewishNinja]

needs some modifications
Beam
multi
beam
stats
beam
ult
beam
+dmg
+dmg
+dmg
ult
multi/+dmg
+dmg/multi
multi
multi
stats
ult
stats

is what i normally go, sometimes more stats early.

Item build, get starting items (2x duck boots 1x minor totem 1x blight 1x hp pot 1x clarity)
Grab enh marchers
Whispering helm (Stack ancients or at least some creeps w/ the neutral dominated creep)
in pubs get assassin's shroud, in games w/ 3+ good disables on opponent's team get shrunken head
Afterwards grab some massive dps. I tend to find geometers bane works really nicely as well as nullfire.

[Crlaozwyn]

Thanks for the posts guys - that will help me a lot. It's just a drag that she's a pub-only character. I'd hoped to take her with me when I actually get some skill under my belt :)

[IPlayForKeep]

Yeah the item build is fine, just replace Elder Parasite with a Whispering helm.

As for the skill build get beam first and at levels 2 and 4 get stats, so it looks like this:
beam
stats
beam
stats
beam
ulti
beam

Then max multi strike, then your damage aura while getting your ulti when you can.


Also,

WUNAR ECWIPSE

[DenyTheTruth]

Thanks for the posts guys - that will help me a lot. It's just a drag that she's a pub-only character. I'd hoped to take her with me when I actually get some skill under my belt :)

She's not a pub only. Her ult is extremely strong. She can dish out tons of damage. Her item build is just expensive and she's a glass cannon. That's the problem.

[Volshok]

Beam + Stats is superior to previous builds listed. You don't have the damage to make use of the +% damage early on, and bounce doesn't help you last hit, it simply pushes the lane. The hero is already fragile, giving hero more mana and hp at lower levels is superior to the alternatives.

Elder Parasite isn't the best choice because it makes you more fragile. Most players get a Whispering Helm because it's Damage/Armor/ Control (Get an Ice Ogre for even more armor), and because you can upgrade it for more HP.

If you are pubbing I'd suggest getting an Assassain's Shroud. In more serious games, BKB.


EDIT: IPlayForKeep's skill build is Beam + Stats. I apparently missed it.

[RapierX]

Definitely Beam/Stats is best start.

[Crlaozwyn]

More thanks :) The reason I've been getting multi hit is to harass enemy heroes more than anything else. They usually go >60% HP after a few minutes just from the bounces, but again this is in pub games. I'll give +stats a shot and swap out eldar. I just love the +100 attack speed when they're stunned. I think because it's unexpected (and stupid, considering how low my HP is) I get more kills from that than anything else.

[DenyTheTruth]

More thanks :) The reason I've been getting multi hit is to harass enemy heroes more than anything else. They usually go >60% HP after a few minutes just from the bounces, but again this is in pub games. I'll give +stats a shot and swap out eldar. I just love the +100 attack speed when they're stunned. I think because it's unexpected (and stupid, considering how low my HP is) I get more kills from that than anything else.

That won't work against non-pubs. They'll have someone there to back them up and one hit you. Symbol of Rage is where it's at if you want to stand up against someone.

[JakezuGD]

I never use MQ in privates/insides either, just because most heroes are better in privates. I never thought about buying Elder Parasite. Whispering Helm is way better though. I don't take Stats (hell, i even might go for aura instead of glaive if i have a double ranged lane) because i take stats from items at the start, 2 F. Bracelets (for +12/6/6 stats for a CHEAP 1.02k gold), E. Marchers for obvious DPS and chasing (raising current total to 2.52k). Then getting Whispering Helm (to raise it to 4.47k, easy to farm before level 11). Then i tend to go for Staff of the Master (or depending on the amount of kills/enemy team, Shrunken Head), and afterwards, gigantic DPS such as Savage Mace or Geometer's Bane. I actually find Mock fairly useful if your team has a Blood Hunter there and he can provide vision to enemies that are low on health and can go long-term invisible. (Scout, Night Hound, all heroes you should get Shroud on (Arachna, Voodoo Jester, etc).) Mock also boosts farming capabilities (though not as powerfully as Savage Mace) and makes toggle-on-damage abilities useless (Portal Key), and that's what you want to get out of the way on ex. Behemoth and Tempest.

A good Early-Mid game build for her only costs 4470 gold. To go really, REALLY out of the ordinary and freaking a glass cannon team out, is getting a Portal Key for MQ. That can net you a lot of laughs in pub games.

This post is long. Whoah. Note me if i missed something in all that typingness.

[Volshok]

More thanks :) The reason I've been getting multi hit is to harass enemy heroes more than anything else. They usually go >60% HP after a few minutes just from the bounces, but again this is in pub games. I'll give +stats a shot and swap out eldar. I just love the +100 attack speed when they're stunned. I think because it's unexpected (and stupid, considering how low my HP is) I get more kills from that than anything else.

In addition to that, also work on heavily farming. A fed Luna is one of the most terrifying carries in the game (imo).

Some Items to Consider
Post Haste - Let's you port around the map to gank and more importantly farm. Also you run fast as hell. [Farming Games]
Whispering Helm - Damage/Armor/Lifesteal, and Domination of a creep. The creep control is very crucial. You can use a dominated creep to stack ancients for you, which is a massive amount of XP/gold. [All Games]
Symbol of Rage - Survivability/Damage/Lifesteal, when lategame is on the horizon, you need more hp to stand toe to toe with over carries. [All Games]
Shrunken Head - HP/Damage/Magic Immunity. Carries can only carry if they aren't disabled the entire time. Especially on a fragile hero like Moon Queen, magic immunity is very core. [Serious Games]
Assassain's Shroud - Invis/Damage/IAS. Moon Queen relies on positioning for her ultimate. Assassain's can provide that for a lower cost, and act as an escape skill. [Pubs]
Portal Key - Same concept as Assassain's positioning to land your ult without creep nearby. This is a much harder item to use, I would wait to start using it.
Geometer's Bane - Everything. More right click damage is always good. Also the image split allows you to mitigate certain spells.

Staff of the master is more of a luxury item. I don't feel like it's worth rushing.

[Crosis]

Has anyone tried a SoTM/Behe heart on her? Was going to just havent gotten around to it. Doing this over Symbol of rage.

heh my item build for MQ is

Steamboots
Wispering Helm
Riftshards Level 4
Wing Bow

Thats all i usaly get to. But after that i would go more dps items.

SotM is not on my list.

[`Cherry`]

Normal build is:
Beam
Glaive
Beam
Glaive
Beam
Ulti
Beam
Glaive
Glaive
++Dam
++Stats

For items, I've been getting enh marchers first, followed by eldar parasite. SotM next, and after that it's up in the air. I know it's terrible, which is why I'm asking for help :)

Sorry, forgot to post play style. I usually solo mid, cast a beam at enemy hero right away and save the other until they attack or get low. Once I have my ulti, I wait until creeps are dead and get behind them for an easy kill. I get staff asap because 4 hits of ult isn't enough even in midgame. If the game is long, I may pick up a shroud to get close enough to make my ult count. I push lanes more than anything else, but enjoy pvp the most.

You do not want to push towers with moon queen.. especially when playing it solo since she's so fragile and with your build, you're gonna push the tower too fast. You should get stats at level 2 and 4 instead of glaive to make up for her poor hp/mana pool a little bit, and i believe you should get her aura at levels 8 9 10 and 12, then you get glaive.

[dune]

Never get Glaive early - it pushes lanes and gets you fighting under their tower instead of near yours!

[pedobearpig]

beam stats till 8 or so. dont level glaive or aura till later.

[Stokkolm]

Just keep in mind that you don't get lifesteal off of your attack bounces. Only the initial hit.
What? In Dota you would gain life from every bounce, that was a the most defining characteristic on her. Didn't know they changed it.

[dune]

What? In Dota you would gain life from every bounce, that was a the most defining characteristic on her. Didn't know they changed it.

It's the same in DotA as is in HoN - the inital hit steals life, the bounces do not.

[KARTlK]

it's

stats
beam
beam
stats
beam
ult
beam

then whatever the **** you need to do.

[alek4ever]

my build of her spells is usually

multi
beam
multi
beam
beam
ulti
beam
multi
dmg+
dmg+
ulti
multi
multi
dmg+
dmg+
then of course at last bonus stats.

[Crlaozwyn]

Hrmm, I knew there would be differing ideas on stat builds, but I didn't know there would be THIS many :p Personally I think I'll be going beam-stat build. I don't want to push the lane (which inevitably happens) and the +dam doesn't do much until I have items anyways.

[desmondzki]

Stat
Beam
Beam
Stat
Beam
Ult
Beam
Stat
Stat
Stat
Ult

If you haven't farmed enough creep (or hero) kills when you reach 11, then there's something seriously wrong. Either you got ganked too often or you can't last-hit creeps. Should have enough gold now for a boots and a Shroud ingredients.

Of course, bottle and courier are a must in this build, but hey, it's easier to harrass heroes with Beam (or even last hit creeps, for example, you're laned with Arach)

[Zmija]

Im alweys go
-EM
-Wispering Helm/Symbol of Rage
-Charge Hammer (YEA!)
-Shrunken Head
-Geometric Bone
-Riftshards/Wing Bow/somthing

[Isin]

I usually go enhanced marchers, soulscream rings and Shrunken Head, and then Staff of the Master.

[sAnGy1]

em, stats, nullfire, wingbow, shieldbreaker,

[gwho1]

SKILL BUILD
1) stats
2) beam
3) beam
4) stats
5) beam

6) ULTI
7) beam
8) glaive
9) glaive
10) glaive

11) ULTI
12) glaive
13) +dmg
14) +dmg
15) +dmg

16) ULTI
17) +dmg

getting lvl 1 beam and using it is a waste of mana. You can't get level 2 beam until level 3, so get beam at 2 and 3 and stats at 1 and 4.


- the situation when u do want to get just 1 or 2 levle of glaives is if ur soloing mid and runewhoring. pushing then lane gives you time to go get runes without missing experience.
- another situation may be if you have a good lane partner (so your risk of dying is low), and one of you pulls a neutral camp from bottom legion or top hellbourne. but the lane will push inevitably sometimes so you can pull even without getting glaives.
- also to keep the wave closer to your side, you can aggro creeps repeatedly to scoot them more closer to yourself. (don't get hit of course)


ITEM BUILD
whispering helm ->
steam boots ->
masterstaff ->
geometre's bane.
symbol of rage (luxury).
shuriken head (if necessary)

item build: whispering helm, use the creep to pull and stack camps if you're up for it. when u get glaive u can rip them apart for masive exp gain while your creep tanks.

instead of refresher, get master staff since it cuts your cd from 160 to 90. this is huge. aghanims doesnt do this in dota. 90 cd is ridiculous, and even in late game it's really deadly. also the stats from master staff goes towards your images when you get geometre's bane. (images get item stat bonuses but not item raw damage bonuses)

i personally like to get geometre's bane over desolator.images help with survivability, and they also get glaives and +dmg. only if needed do i get shuriken head (in pubs you won't really need it, and u can go straight for geometre's damage + survivability.

[Hat_Truck]

She's not a pub only. Her ult is extremely strong. She can dish out tons of damage. Her item build is just expensive and she's a glass cannon. That's the problem.
She's a fine hero and even good on a competitive level!

The only problem is that other heroes can usually fill her role a little better (she's a semi-carry who also has strong nukes), and so she is usually overshadowed by other heroes. Her place on the team is a little weird since she is good at so many different things, but yet so easy to kill.

Another thing is that her 400 range instead of the typically 600 for most nukers really hurts her, especially during the laning phase.

She owns in pubs though, you should keep practicing with her.

[gwho1]

doesnt she make a fine late game carry as well?
gemetre/butterfly with symbol of rage and shuriken head. glaive attakcs are awesome.

with staff of the master, her ultimate nuke becomes 90 cd, and it really does do a lot even late game, if you get to use it that frequently.

[Juular]

I'm not really a "newb", and she's my main.
So..

[ShadowsCrush]

Your deaths are more than your assists as well....so you're not really "good" either...
No offense, but she's just not a strong carry
Headdress makes her nukes just tickle, and if the other team has a decent disable, she's almost certain to be the first one dead, especially if you take the awful advice of some of these people and get Assassin Shroud

[esoteric]

So everyone is going to think I'm weird for this, but I actually really like Frostwolf's Skull on Moon Queen? Now, obviously it isn't something you want to get if you're doing badly because it's tricky to farm up, but if you're doing well, it's a very effective method of providing you with lots of bonus hp (which MQ desperately needs due to being made of paper), mana (useful for spamming beam on that 6s cooldown), a decent amount of damage, and a slow (which she lacks and can be helpful). Is it better than a more traditional build - I'm not sure. But what it does do really well is make up for MQ's paper hp and let her almost always get her full ultimate off in team fights and really wreak some havoc with her bouncing glaives.