Custom maps - How to...

[Webeg]

For this you will need the fallowing:
- fully functioning custom map editor,
- an S2 programmer, (or more)
- a few changes to the MM system,
- some help from the community...


First off let us tackle the problem of F2P and custom maps.

The idea behind this solution is simple.
Someone in the community designs a custom map, it gets checked by an S2 employee and then uploaded to the in-game shop and the server.

Lets say we put a cost of a map on a 500 gold coins or 2000 silver coins. With this fee you would buy the map and all its future updates.
The map "owner" or its designer (the one that made the map OR is developing it) would get a single percent of its sale in the shop.
That would mean that the person designing the map would have some benefit from updating the map and so would S2.
Lets talk numbers: 1% out of a 500 gold map is 5 gold coins for every person buying the map.
So on 10 000 copies sold the "owner" would make 50 000 coins. A good enough incentive to continue developing the map.

This (the prices) is updated at the end of the post. I came up with the idea to try to scale the prices... Scroll down to the end of the post.


Second problem:
What if the designer would stop updating the map? (He lost interest, quit HoN... etc.)
The ownership of the map could be transferred by the "owner" to someone else (a friend, some other developer)...
That way the maps could be continueslly developed.
Yes, this feature could be abused by swapping between accounts, but lets face it,
if you make a map that sells like 20 000 times you deserve to have 2 accounts with 50 000 coins or something...



Third problem:
Match making. Custom maps would give 0 coins. BUT they would be implanted in matchmaking.

See pictures.
http://i55.tinypic.com/xcrigk.jpg

Join existing game or make a new game would be if you want to play tower defense or some RPG only with your friend or something.

After the game was found you would be trown in to a lobby with the first person joining as admin.
Able to start the map or wait for more. If you selected create new you could invite your friends and lock every other slot.
Ofc the lobby would need to change abit to fit the map. Like a 10vs10 lobby for custom maps.

http://i53.tinypic.com/9930ur.jpg

Forth problem:
In-game shop for maps.

http://i51.tinypic.com/n4z58x.jpg

The price for every map would be 500 gold or 2000 silver did not feel like changing that on the picture.
The community grade would be an option to grade the map once you had bought and played it. You could then filter the maps by the grade.
There could also be a window on the same Custom maps tab with most popular map this month and the map with the best or highest score this month.



Fifth problem:
Updating the maps since they are server side.

Existing maps update could be uploaded or send to S2 once in every 4 weeks. Then the map would again be check for hacks? and uploaded to the server.
This would require very little effort from S2 since the map would only need to be checked and uploaded to the server?

They could aswell make it so that the map update can only be sent to them in the first 3 weeks after the last update so they would have 1 week to check the

map and upload them on patch day.



Sixth problem:
How to launch!

For the custom maps to work so that they get a few supporters and that they get rated at start S2 could do the fallowing.

Release the fully functioning map editor. With a big announcement to the community that they will have 2 weeks to design their custom maps.

After 2 weeks are over all submitted maps would be checked and uploaded to a few servers.

Then all accounts would get to play all submitted maps for free for a week and all verified accounts could rate every custom map ONCE in that week for

community rating system.

After that week the first 30? highest rated maps would stay on the server and in the shop.

All others would be dumped and could be improved and resubmitted in a month.
This cycle would happen every 4 weeks. And every map that would survive the 30? highest rated/most popular maps list would get to stay on most of the server.

Maps that did not survive would stay only on one or two servers so that people that have bought them could play them.


Congratulations you have implanted custom maps, the How to is over. :)


Epilogue:

I'm not a native English speaker, so please excuse my grammer and the spelling mistakes.
And feel free to discuss this Custom maps model for F2P HoN.
If I missed anything point it out and I'm sure it can be fixed with a slight tweak to the model.
The map names and maps used in the pictures are from wc3, couldnt be bothered to change that and people know them.

I'm not trying to tell S2 how to run their company and no I do not think I'm smarter then their whole team.
This is just an idea on how to get the custom maps implanted.



TL;DR The topic is not intended for you then.

UPDATE after some feedback and some brainstorming:

Some new suggestions!

Custom maps prices: Maybe S2 could make the prices scale.

25 g coins for a map with 0-50 downloads (buys)
50 g coins for a map with 50-100 downloads (buys)
100 g coins for a map with 100-500 downloads (buys)
150 g coins for a map with 500-2500 downloads (buys)
250 g coins for a map with 2500-9999999 downloads (buys)
Reason for this is obvious buying a new map would be high risk, high reward.
Silver coins would scale accordingly with 4x-5x the gold coins.
This would also give new maps a fighting chance...


For map creators-designers-''owners'' they could make a link where they would be named on the
map to the sub-forum on HoN forums with the designers thread that would be like his blog
for map development. Creating this blog would be optional but it would give the community a chance to see what the designer is working on before the 4 weeks update.
(Something like the link for message form Maliken had)



AND FINALLY!
FOR people saying custom maps should be free!
As far as I see it a thing that you dont have to pay any (real world) money for is free.
SO custom maps that would be avaliable to purchase with silver coins like my idea suggests WOULD indeed be free.




Webeg

[Freekin]

love it!

BUT if they make it 250 gold (same as EA bull...) and 1000 silver coins and leave the designer with 2%(same 5 coins) I would have their babies!!

[Zer`o]

DO IT> NAO!

[Lazy`]

Mmm. Paying for Custom maps. o3o

[rumy]

I do agree and I like your idea. However, the prices are too high and people can be discouraged :para: . I mean 500 gold (2000 silver) for one custom map? Holly crap! This is ridiculous as they supposed to be free. Let's say they would cost 100 gold (400 silver). This is a quite better deal and lot's of people would buy it.

[RainOfChaos]

wow epic nice idea! i really like it =)
and @s2 u would get a lot of money because of this =) and this is what a company should try to get :D
dunno why many people complain about s2's ways to get money, its a company... and the sense of a company is to make money... so go on as u are doing now s2 and implement this nice stuff the guy wrote =)

[Shoobeh]

You get one custom map for free, and then you get custom silver coins to buy others when winning on the free custom map.

[Smikis]

there should be grace period for maps, 4 week update cycle would kill any map, not to mention new ones.

first noone would play new maps, second ifthere is some game breaking bug, map will be dead before it can be updated..
if you make custom maps, 100g 300s coins is max you can tax them, or they will never take off..

this isnt wc3, with millions upon millions players, and even then so many maps werent played, or went dead after half year glory

nor is it sc2, where half maps wont get played more than twice

[MajuiF]

Paying for custom maps is ridiculous.
Custom maps are user-made, most of the time, and I don't see why S2 would make money thanks to some indie developers. Plus it's not necessarily only 1 person who develops a Custom Map - how would you split the money between those devs?

Paying for Custom Maps, and adding them to MM is, IMO, completely irrelevant.
Custom Maps shouldn't be - unless if they're developed by S2 members directly - used in MM. Neither should they give coins.

I love Custom Maps - hell, I'm even working on Devourer Wars - but having players PAY for them removes most of the fun of the game.

Yes for the Custom Maps - but a BIG NO for having to pay for 'em and including them in MM.

[Rade]

How about paying for PREMIUM custom maps.
Like the good TD's, Lothar party, dev wars etc.
All the other crappy maps are free to play until they are upvoted to a certain point. At that point they become premium and pay to play.

If a map becomes premium the map author is rewarded x amount of gold coins to share amongst his/her dev team however he/she sees fit?

[MajuiF]

How about paying for PREMIUM custom maps.
Like the good TD's, Lothar party, dev wars etc.
All the other crappy maps are free to play until they are upvoted to a certain point. At that point they become premium and pay to play.

Once again, all those maps are player-made. Just go look at the Custom Maps section on the forums. Making players PAY for them is relatively stupid - some players just want to enjoy Custom Maps without having to PAY/PLAY their way to get them.
That removes the whole fun-ness of those custom maps.


If a map becomes premium the map author is rewarded x amount of gold coins to share amongst his/her dev team however he/she sees fit?
That's going to be abused so hard.

Back on topic, I think having players pay for the maps is dumb - I've repeated it over and over again. Some players buy a game for its mechanics and the abundance (or not) of minigames. Hell, I bought WarCraft 3 only to play DotA and Tower Defenses - I've never played WC3 Online or w/e.

Instead, players should have to pay a certain amount to have Access to Custom Maps - and Legacy Players should have free-access to them (since they already payed). That would be the greater idea.

[Webeg]

Paying for custom maps is ridiculous.
Custom maps are user-made, most of the time, and I don't see why S2 would make money thanks to some indie developers. Plus it's not necessarily only 1 person who develops a Custom Map - how would you split the money between those devs?

Paying for Custom Maps, and adding them to MM is, IMO, completely irrelevant.
Custom Maps shouldn't be - unless if they're developed by S2 members directly - used in MM. Neither should they give coins.

I love Custom Maps - hell, I'm even working on Devourer Wars - but having players PAY for them removes most of the fun of the game.

Yes for the Custom Maps - but a BIG NO for having to pay for 'em and including them in MM.


You would pay for custom maps so that they will be hosted on an S2 server.
I doubt S2 will release a LAN function so every map has to be server sided unlike wc3. Plus you would pay to play on their game engine.

Yes the map would be community made but the map designer would benefit from making a map aswell. With 2 designer they could change the "owner" status of the map so they split the coins...

The MM aspect is just so you get easier game access... I dont think it would take alot of effort to implant.(I could be wrong)

And I wrote that custom maps would give NO COINS, since the primary game would still be HoN and the custom maps just an awesome perk.

But I do agree that I made the prices of maps abit too high.

100 g coins and 400 silvers would make the maps more appealing to the general public.

[Papilla]

Paying for custom maps? Are you serious?

[DemKy]

no just NO.

Custom map = free.

end of story.

[CustomMode]

Ty OP for giving me the link.
This is how I kinda pictured it except the whole paying for maps...
that's something S2 would do.

All Legacy accounts should receive access to custom modes and maps for free.
There should be a new tab with a database of maps and descriptions with user rankings,downloads, etc...

Free accounts however, would need a pay a certain amount of gold coins to have access to maps and modes, then it's free forever.

[Rade]

Once again, all those maps are player-made. Just go look at the Custom Maps section on the forums. Making players PAY for them is relatively stupid - some players just want to enjoy Custom Maps without having to PAY/PLAY their way to get them.
That removes the whole fun-ness of those custom maps.


That's going to be abused so hard.

Back on topic, I think having players pay for the maps is dumb - I've repeated it over and over again. Some players buy a game for its mechanics and the abundance (or not) of minigames. Hell, I bought WarCraft 3 only to play DotA and Tower Defenses - I've never played WC3 Online or w/e.

Instead, players should have to pay a certain amount to have Access to Custom Maps - and Legacy Players should have free-access to them (since they already payed). That would be the greater idea.

Its about making it a lucrative business decision for S2. Having to host on thier servers, upgrade to thier software/hardware etc. Giving it all away fro free doesnt make too much business sense. And at the moment S2 is all about trying to make money to stay competitive.

Like i said there will be multiple maps that can be played for free. Only premium ones will require payment. The voting system obviously hasnt had much thought put into it but im sure they can work some kind of map rating out. Max no of players. no of times replayed by players (should signify a good map), ave no of players, etc etc.

Tl;dr Giving custom maps away for free will end up costing S2 money. Why would they implement it?

[Webeg]

Its about making it a lucrative business decision for S2. Having to host on thier servers, upgrade to thier software/hardware etc. Giving it all away fro free doesnt make too much business sense. And at the moment S2 is all about trying to make money to stay competitive.

Like i said there will be multiple maps that can be played for free. Only premium ones will require payment. The voting system obviously hasnt had much thought put into it but im sure they can work some kind of map rating out. Max no of players. no of times replayed by players (should signify a good map), ave no of players, etc etc.

Tl;dr Giving custom maps away for free will end up costing S2 money. Why would they implement it?

What he said.
If S2 is afraid to give their community the source code so that they could host their own servers because it could be abused this is the only sensible solution.

Besides S2 is a business and this gives them some profit with little to no effect on the community.

[MajuiF]

Tl;dr Giving custom maps away for free will end up costing S2 money. Why would they implement it?
Having players pay for access to Custom Maps. Not having players pay for every single map that's released. This access to Custom Maps would allow you to play all the actual Custom Maps released (currently found in the Completed Maps section of the forum).

What would happen if you want to play several TD's, Devo Wars, Footies and such? Would you have to spend 100+ USD to get access to them? I'd rather go back on WC3.

And legacy players bought the game for 30$. They should have auto-access to them.

Paying for every single map is retarded.

[Zeriercahl]

I would love more maps but one big issue no one has mentioned is...
The majority of players don't! If there were a bunch of different maps, the queue would be HUGE for each one. Just look at the public games list. 90%+ games are Caldavar, the other <10% is the other tree maps.
MORE custom maps would just get bunched into that <10%.

If you want this idea to be viable, this simple suggestion would have to be implemented: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=319841
So CHECK IT OUT!!!

[Webeg]

I would love more maps but one big issue no one has mentioned is...
The majority of players don't! If there were a bunch of different maps, the queue would be HUGE for each one. Just look at the public games list. 90%+ games are Caldavar, the other <10% is the other tree maps.
MORE custom maps would just get bunched into that <10%.

If you want this idea to be viable, this simple suggestion would have to be implemented: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=319841
So CHECK IT OUT!!!


I agree that suggestion would make this much more viable, since not all maps could be played with only 1 or 2 people.

[Homie90]

+1

I love the idea for community to add stuff to shop and benefit from it - mods are best example.

[Webeg]

Updated the first post with new suggestions.

[donaldtroll]

sure why not... maybe maliken would want to switch it around a bit so you have to sacrifice your firstborn to him in order to get a custom map, but otherwise it sounds great

[Vr3b3l]

neat ideia

[Tapetenfleck]

a good way to implement custom maps
+1 :)

[Typhooni]

Bring it on already!

[GrimmShado]

1. Unlikely they are added to matchmaking, its an unneeded strain on the fragile system.
2. The issue that keeps them from implementing them is not this logistics you discuss, but the fact that since the game is server side, for each game the game files would be changed, being that resource, heroes, entitys, etc. If you want to understand how a custom map runs on HoN look for the modifications section and try to play pacman or valkyrie wars. And thus far they (s2) have not found an (easy) way to make sure that once the game ends, the resources return to their defaults without making trouble serverside or iin each client. NOt that they have tried much tough. So thanks for the effort.

[Shadow54]

1. Unlikely they are added to matchmaking, its an unneeded strain on the fragile system.
2. The issue that keeps them from implementing them is not this logistics you discuss, but the fact that since the game is server side, for each game the game files would be changed, being that resource, heroes, entitys, etc. If you want to understand how a custom map runs on HoN look for the modifications section and try to play pacman or valkyrie wars. And thus far they (s2) have not found an (easy) way to make sure that once the game ends, the resources return to their defaults without making trouble serverside or iin each client. NOt that they have tried much tough. So thanks for the effort.


What i don't understand is why don't they enable player sided servers just like warcraft 3 used to...

Before F2P I understand it was to fight against piracy but now? i jsut don't see the why.

Maybe a S2 member can enlighten me about this (not asking when or if custom games are available, just they why noone ever says anything about it)

[Shodcrank]

u're a genius, GW

[Demonic150]

This is a great idea - add a Yes/No poll to this thread with hidden results so that it will be taken seriously and it abides by the suggestion thread rules.

[Satangossu]

What i don't understand is why don't they enable player sided servers just like warcraft 3 used to...

Before F2P I understand it was to fight against piracy but now? i jsut don't see the why.

Maybe a S2 member can enlighten me about this (not asking when or if custom games are available, just they why noone ever says anything about it)

It's because of cheats/hacks. I would not play any map client sided, to easy to maphack.

Also, if we are not getting any coins on the custom maps, don't add them to the Matchmaking system, just keep these maps on Custom Games, it seems good enough.

Imagine the queue times if we had like 50 maps on MM??? With one map it's alredy a 10min wait for some people, mulitple maps would break the MM system.

I love your idea with all my heart, just keep the new maps restricted to Custom Games :)

[marcianosk8]

Any copyrights protection or licensing for the maps? or the idea of any custom map is something generic that anybody can copy at will?

[Shadow54]

It's because of cheats/hacks. I would not play any map client sided, to easy to maphack.

Also, if we are not getting any coins on the custom maps, don't add them to the Matchmaking system, just keep these maps on Custom Games, it seems good enough.

Imagine the queue times if we had like 50 maps on MM??? With one map it's alredy a 10min wait for some people, mulitple maps would break the MM system.

I love your idea with all my heart, just keep the new maps restricted to Custom Games :)


That is easily fixed with S2 mantaining the maps themselves like it was allready said...

the server being client sided doesn't mean the host wouldn't have connected to a S2 server to verify if the map is a "approved" one or not.

also, maphacinking, even if a problem, it's a small one since client sided games wouldn't count for stats or anything... you'd only lose your time, nothing more...

Again, I say... S2 could verify the authenticity of a map and only then HoN would load up the map and create a client sided server...

[Webeg]

It's because of cheats/hacks. I would not play any map client sided, to easy to maphack.

Also, if we are not getting any coins on the custom maps, don't add them to the Matchmaking system, just keep these maps on Custom Games, it seems good enough.

Imagine the queue times if we had like 50 maps on MM??? With one map it's alredy a 10min wait for some people, mulitple maps would break the MM system.

I love your idea with all my heart, just keep the new maps restricted to Custom Games :)

The problem with current matchmaking wait time is that players are matched according to their skill level or MMR as its called.

When you would play a custom map in MM it would skip matching the players by MMR and it would only match people with the same map choice.

But yeah if it could get implanted multiple thumbed up maps would help aswell.

[Wiggy_boy]

I rly dislike the idea...

(btw: isn't it require'd to have a poll?)

[Freekin]

might add a poll?

[Webeg]

Poll added. Didnt know it was a must :O

[Numerio]

S2, hire this guy
and implement it.

I think with such a model you could gain lots of new users, and coins would be worth something again
(people are most willing to pay for ingame content - not cosmetics)

[Thagonz]

Generally a fine idea, and very thought through, however the "price" of the maps is a bit high - actually really high 2000 silver coins means that anyone who doesn't game incredibly much would only be able to afford 2 maps from a couple of months of gaming - the alternative, which is 500 gold coins is also really expensive. For "legacy" accounts we can't "really" use our coins anyway, but the new F2P accounts need all the coins they can get to actually play the heroes they want to - which in other words means that if you want to lure in new players with custom maps, it won't really happen once they realise the fantastic amount of coins they will need to play the things they actually want in the game.

500 coins for a custom made map is a bit much - 2000 silver is clearly too much. It should be something along the lines of 350 gold, 700 silver

[C00LBeans]

I don't think custom maps should cost anything to get.

I think they should add 1-2 custom maps to the MM and rotate it every week.

So one week you have WTF and OMG maps on MM, next week you have Tower Defence and one other.

Or they can just keep the most popular custom map in MM until people want a new one.

And the rest of the custom maps should be playable in public games, where players can choose whatever custom map they want to play.

[Freekin]

Generally a fine idea, and very thought through, however the "price" of the maps is a bit high - actually really high 2000 silver coins means that anyone who doesn't game incredibly much would only be able to afford 2 maps from a couple of months of gaming - the alternative, which is 500 gold coins is also really expensive. For "legacy" accounts we can't "really" use our coins anyway, but the new F2P accounts need all the coins they can get to actually play the heroes they want to - which in other words means that if you want to lure in new players with custom maps, it won't really happen once they realise the fantastic amount of coins they will need to play the things they actually want in the game.

500 coins for a custom made map is a bit much - 2000 silver is clearly too much. It should be something along the lines of 350 gold, 700 silver

He updated the prices so that they scale...

25 g coins for a map with 0-50 downloads (buys)
50 g coins for a map with 50-100 downloads (buys)
100 g coins for a map with 100-500 downloads (buys)
150 g coins for a map with 500-2500 downloads (buys)
250 g coins for a map with 2500-9999999 downloads (buys)
Reason for this is obvious buying a new map would be high risk, high reward.
Silver coins would scale accordingly with 4x-5x the gold coins.

IMO a great change.

[`BlueBeard`]

f u custom map should be free

[Hafgrim]

BUMP FFS

[Myzzrym]

I agree that custom maps should be playable. I don't care under what conditions, as long as they exist and we can play them :/

[Webeg]

bump

[Webeg]

bump

[Webeg]

bump

[Balpha_Rape]

Hell to the NO on how to implement custom map. but a hell to the yes on custom maps.

Make there be a annual fee (yearly) to be able to play unlimited custom maps on F2P accounts. 20-30$? or make it a monthly fee to be able to play unliminted custom maps. (free for all legacy of course!)

[TWIsTED_]

l2 use PS. But yes for sure! #Fantastic

[Webeg]

bump

[Ryuukun]

I voted yes but I'd never play a single custom map if they ever implemented your system.

[WampTastic]

i think you should do maps like the alt heroes. have a contest and a winner and make like 1 map a month. it would make it alot easier on you guys and our pockets ;)