Madman, what am I doing wrong?

[Wutangrza]

I'm new'ish to the DotA thing, and have noticed that when I encounter enemy madmen I'm usually dead before I can even get a skill off.

When I have the madman I don't seem to have the oomph, and I have a feeling I'm doin' it wrong.

What is the preferred gank skill order for a madman?
What about beginning item purchases?
What about mid-late game purchases.

Generally I buy a couple of the tree eater runes, a couple +all stats accessories, and maybe an agi boost or two. Later on I try to get either a splash damage weapon and maybe some lifedraining items.

My "gank" move is to berserk(whatever the ulti is called), then stalk, attack, then barrel roll.

I have a feeling I'm not using the stalk correctly offensively, cause it doesn't seem like I'm getting any bonus damage or anything from it. Could someone clarify the stalk mechanic of the madman? Are you supposed to stalk behind someone and just regattack them?

Thanks for your help!

[FiNGERS]

Stalk does damage as you pass through units. Get the first 2 skills, leaving critical strike for later. If you are up against heavy nukers get a couple bracers(not sure the HoN name), I generally rush Savage Mace and Whispering Helm.

[Sw4n]

i get 1 in barrel roll and max out the others. enhanced marchers, deso (the armor reduction weapon), and shrunken head are good items on him.

[Somnolent49]

Savage mace is simply amazing on him, and whispering helm is almost necessary it seems. Winged Bow is also a good item to get if it's turning into a particularly late game and you have the cash.

[Kable2]

Although I've only played him personally once (lol16-4 having little idea how to skill/build correctly) but I think I would preffer getting a vlads(abyssal skull? i forget HoN name for it) on him over a whispering helm. Sure it may be slightly cheaper but vlads gives the aura, and decent mana regen early game to make sure you have enough mana to escape if you need to, as barrel roll is a huge amount of mana early game with his limited mana pool.

Other items suggested seem good on him, winged bow is probably the final item you should shoot for as its too expensive to try and make off the bat, youll just be sitting there with no good items and a ton of gold.

[vaccine]

Is this guy considered balanced? He seems so blatantly overpowered it is untrue, just wondering what the better players think.

To elaborate I'm having same issue as OP, die in 3 seconds barely getting a cast off at equal level, with him not being particularly farmed. Character? Any.

[Chobbelito]

No one notice that he posted in the wrong forum?

[Revolution3]

what are you doing wrong? you picked madman for starts

pretty basic, 2 wraiths, steamboots, vamp, hack, slash, hns, butterfly

You need to rely on your surprise, but since they nerfed his invis, you have to save that and use it for chase. Depending on how good the other team is, lothars is also an option to regain your lost invis.

Keep in mind that you should never play madman in a real game as he isn't too helpful as a team hero, so only play him in pubs

[Mudkipz1]

what are you doing wrong? You picked madman for starts

pretty basic, 2 wraiths, steamboots, vamp, hack, slash, hns, butterfly

you need to rely on your surprise, but since they nerfed his invis, you have to save that and use it for chase. Depending on how good the other team is, lothars is also an option to regain your lost invis.

Keep in mind that you should never play madman in a real game as he isn't too helpful as a team hero, so only play him in pubs
hahahaha lothars!
Hahahahahaha!

[Revolution3]

@mudkipz, if you're gunna pub stomp, do it right

[Mudkipz1]

lol @post.
You fail.











































IRL that is.

[Chobbelito]

Ppl who fail with madman should uninstall

[Chobbelito]

Simple solution: Give the stealth higher cd and more mana cost.

[BluRB]

Simple solution? Ensure someone on your team has a stun. Madman is a carriery, stop him from farming and stun/sleep him during fights and it's GG Madman.

[rhodric1]

hahahaha lothars!
Hahahahahaha!

rofl

[Isin]

Go survivability build. You don't need +damage items on Madman until you start getting luxury items. You'll get enough +damage from your crits on top of your Whispering Helm and BKB. BKB is essential because Madman gets owned by disables/nukes.


lol @post.
You fail.

.....

IRL that is.

Bad trolling. Not funny. Kill yourself.

[Orkka]

Go survivability build. You don't need +damage items on Madman until you start getting luxury items. You'll get enough +damage from your crits on top of your Whispering Helm and BKB. BKB is essential because Madman gets owned by disables/nukes.



Bad trolling. Not funny. Kill yourself.

this as well....

also... lothar's on madman ;op

[j00sh]

he can get early game kills with a good lane partner, and after that you really need to farm as efficiently as possible

I go 1 stalk, max barrel roll, ult at 6, rest in crit. Finish stalk after crit. Early game if I'm going for first blood I'll either lane with someone w/ ring of the teacher, or I'll get it myself, because it's pretty nice having mana. I get lifeleach and an iron buckler early so I'm not worried about tanking creeps.

I try to assist with ganks and stuff if I can afford to, but a lot of the time in pubs my team will be asking "omg madman where u @ stop farming".. but then next thing you know I'm eating the other team alive

if nobody's getting abyssal skull I like to get it just so my team can do krogor asap, it helps a lot (and goes along with getting a ring of the teacher in the beginning.. and then you can get a regen ring at the outpost.. so yeah, it works out) but generally I like whispering helm more

on top of just ripping through people, I've noticed that people REALLY want to kill madman.. so get a shrunken head and have people chase you down at max runspeed blowing cooldowns etc, and your team will probably find a nice window to initiate a fight.. I've done that in a few games and it works wonders, especially if you have krogor's totem in order to be extra ballsy with - oh and madman rips through him so fast with ult up, again if you have a tank on the team with life leach, I recommend you kill him a bit early

[StealthFire]

what u guys on about, lothar riki is pro build.

[Tryptophan]

what u guys on about, lothar riki is pro build.

Madman is not Rikimaru.

[Vadi]

Grief him early to keep him in reality late-game.

[ShadowReaper]

I personally begin with: +3 str +3 int items, 2 healing pots, 2 mana pots.
I prefer to solo as madman, for stalk can easily net you a double kill if leveled early.
I raise abilities as stalk, barrel, stalk, barrel or crits, stalk, ult, stalk, barrel, then w/e.
One lvl of crits helps when bursting out of stalk.

[Kietharr]

Start off with Stalk and Barrel Roll, be VERY cautious, only go in for aggressive action if you know it will get you a kill. You have next to zero HP so a dual nuke lane will instagib you if you stay at the creep line getting last hits in the traditional way.

I circumvent this by using the gold you get very early on in the lane (before the nukers can instakill you) to buy a manatube to help regen for stalk, and I use stalk to lasthit creeps at the creepline and possibly harass enemy heroes before returning to the safety of my tower. I continue to do this until I get enough gold to turn the manatube into a sustainer then I will use gold to complete the initial circlets into bracelets (as tempting as it is to go for soulscreams, DO NOT do it, you need the HP ten times more than the extra damage) and buy steam boots. Keep steamboots on strength, again you need the HP, not damage.

After that, get a broadsword and bastard sword for a runed axe. You can use this to cleave crits on creepwaves and in team fights for huge damage, especially with your ulti. After this you go for a whispering helm, then a shrunken head. If you have gold after this get savage mace and/or complete helm into Symbol of Rage.

Not really a build meant for super serious top level comp games but 99% of the people on this forum don't play those anyways and this works fine in pubs.

If you start getting disabled a lot or they have a high disable team that you fear in teamfights make the shrunken head a priority after bracers and steamboots.

[Isin]

A bit off-topic, but I joined a pub and got a shiva's guard on Madman. It worked quite well. If you're up for a few laughs, and it seems you play pubs anyways, you might want to try it.

[Jerry]

Shrunken Head (BKB) first item.

Pop BKB. Pop ulti. Kill 2 casters before they can do anything. Stealth out.

And what's with the whispering helm crap in this thread? Biggest waste of money ever.