Fail Pestilience

[noobstickah]

I'm a fail pestilence. I play him and I get KOwned. Yet every guide I read and in all the pro matches everyone talks about how beastly he is. I've seen players who have better KDRs and way better stats than I do also just completely blow with him. So whats the trick? What do 90% of HoN players miss with him?

Are there any good VoD's following pestilence explaining what/where/when how? I've had a decent game with him, but mostly, fail pestilence. :(

[InspecterJ]

I think its just general ability and map awareness that accounts to it.

Then again, there are some heroes that I just can't play, while others I can do pretty awesome with.

[PoopyDesires]

He's a very powerful ganker just since he has the vision/-armor, really fast movespeed and a stun. Keep ganking as well as abusing your godly attack animation to farm. With the right items Pest hits like a massive truck.

[protoculture]

I have the same problem. I can see the potential but even using heavy damage items like shield breaker and staying aware of potential ganks I can't seem to balance out the KDR. He's super useful for a team fight but I have no incentive to pick him because you can never get that last hit on auto.

May have something to do with lane mates waiting till I have someone down to 1/8 hp and nuking for the last hit, but that will teach me for playing EM pubs. I think I'm using him to initiate team fights with imp/swarm and hanging around for them rather than initiating and moving back behind them to clean up the runners.

Edit: Of course I acknowledge 100% the problem is with my play style and type of games I choose to play. I've seen some scary pest players.

[DenyTheTruth]

I have the same problem. I can see the potential but even using heavy damage items like shield breaker and staying aware of potential ganks I can't seem to balance out the KDR. He's super useful for a team fight but I have no incentive to pick him because you can never get that last hit on auto.

May have something to do with lane mates waiting till I have someone down to 1/8 hp and nuking for the last hit, but that will teach me for playing EM pubs. I think I'm using him to initiate team fights with imp/swarm and hanging around for them rather than initiating and moving back behind them to clean up the runners.

Edit: Of course I acknowledge 100% the problem is with my play style and type of games I choose to play. I've seen some scary pest players.

The reason you can't get the last hit is because you're playing him wrong. He's a chaser. You wait until they're running and then go stun them.

[protoculture]

The reason you can't get the last hit is because you're playing him wrong. He's a chaser. You wait until they're running and then go stun them.

Should I still be initiating team fights then or should I be lurking off to the side and waiting for the retreat?

[Pyrate]

some people just find certain heroes hard to play with because the hero doesnt suit their style of play, that simple. For example, I play a good Succubus, Electrician, Pollywog etc because my preferred role is disabler. I cant play heroes like Predator, Zephyr and most carries because they dont suit my style of play

[Ruscour]

Stun
Flight
Stun
Flight
Stun
Swarm
Stun
Flight
Flight
Bash
Swarm
Bash
Bash
Bash
Stats
Swarm

Start with Logger's Hatchet and 2 tangos. Helm of the Victim > Insanitarius > Marchers > Enhanced Marchers. That's your core build.

After that get Shieldbreaker and bam, you just won the game.

[Maocc]

Stun
Flight
Stun
Flight
Stun
Swarm
Stun
Flight
Flight
Bash
Swarm
Bash
Bash
Bash
Stats
Swarm

Start with Logger's Hatchet and 2 tangos. Helm of the Victim > Insanitarius > Marchers > Enhanced Marchers. That's your core build.

After that get Shieldbreaker and bam, you just won the game.


this. Pest is a very active hero, as he's a ganker. He also takes a bit of skill to play compared to other hero's because you take bonus damage from flight. Also, having insanitarious as a core item adds a bit of challenge because you have to know how to use/abuse it.

Overall, he's a fun fun hero. its just hard for nubs to pick him up and expect to do good. he takes a lot of awareness and teamwork to play pretty much.

that and in passive pub farm games where people farm for 40 minutes then do something, he's worthless. If you want a farm hero go play someone else. He's based on a midgame ganking/pushing team.

[MyLife]

Stun
Flight
Stun
Flight
Stun
Swarm
Stun
Flight
Flight
Bash
Swarm
Bash
Bash
Bash
Stats
Swarm

Start with Logger's Hatchet and 2 tangos. Helm of the Victim > Insanitarius > Marchers > Enhanced Marchers. That's your core build.

After that get Shieldbreaker and bam, you just won the game.

to all the noobs reading this, DO NOT LISTEN to what he has said... Get 1 point of gore after 2 points of flight not all 4 flight before a single in gore... And dont get insantarius on pestilence... get a Cleaver early game to farm then go BKB unless u cant farm the cleaver then go straight for bkb... finish the cleaver then get a demonic brestplate.

[Mizaru1]

Stun
Flight
Stun
Flight
Stun
Swarm
Stun
Flight
Flight
Bash
Swarm
Bash
Bash
Bash
Stats
Swarm

Start with Logger's Hatchet and 2 tangos. Helm of the Victim > Insanitarius > Marchers > Enhanced Marchers. That's your core build.

After that get Shieldbreaker and bam, you just won the game.


not marchers 1st b4 insani? The flight is not enuf to chase without boots sometimes.

[ChunkyWill]

Cleaver is bad, stop playing em and learn to last hit.

Also, to Maocc, pest is one of the strongest late game heroes.

[cvk]

first item you get on pest is a dagger unless your team has a better initator, which is highly doubtful and still most likelly you still want dagger on him just lets you get kills easier. Also wtf is a cleaver? runed axe? Also never get that ****. Get bkb after dagger, also get phaseboots and 1 or 2 bracers early game for survivabilty. Finish off with shieldbreaker and deamonic or satanic. Also gore at lvl 2 seems to be more usefull since u not gonna flight that early, and those random bashes could come in handy for last hits and just harrasment.

[AdventFlow]

I hardly get insanitarious unless i get lifesteal, It feels like insanitarious drains more hp in HoN than DotA. But thats just me.

My build for pest is usually get 2 bracers early game for some health, enhanced marchers, bkb for rape, deso, vlads. if the game still isnt over, probably get a heart.

[King`Azeo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruscour http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=423511#post423511)
Stun
Flight
Stun
Flight
Stun
Swarm
Stun
Flight
Flight
Bash
Swarm
Bash
Bash
Bash
Stats
Swarm

Start with Logger's Hatchet and 2 tangos. Helm of the Victim > Insanitarius > Marchers > Enhanced Marchers. That's your core build.

After that get Shieldbreaker and bam, you just won the game.

to all the noobs reading this, DO NOT LISTEN to what he has said... Get 1 point of gore after 2 points of flight not all 4 flight before a single in gore... And dont get insantarius on pestilence... get a Cleaver early game to farm then go BKB unless u cant farm the cleaver then go straight for bkb... finish the cleaver then get a demonic brestplate.

I think it's better to go max stun and gore 1st before taking a level in flight. Why? Because most of the time when you're in a decent team, or when you're in a competitive match, almost all of the team will have some form of stun/slow/disable; making flight pointless early as most of the time, when your team ganks, the enemy will be pinned down by your slows and disables anyway, and you'll just end up getting killed easier because of the bonus damage you take from flight.

Gore also helps in killing opponents by helping in pinning them down whenever it procs, plus you deal more damage..plus, gore can make for better last hits whenever it procs, and unlike back then, gore damage scales now like bash in DotA, unlike before where gore had a static bonus damage and higher levels just meant increased chance.

[Puchi]

A few things that i think about when playing pesti:

1. Dont gank alone in early/mid game.
2. Dont relay on Gore (its a good skill but you cant expect to stun at first hit off CD)¨
3. Get bkb/shieldbreaker asap
4. Whenever you are not ganking, FARM

[Kaee]

Sigh.

his AoE stun and Flight are his main gank spells along with swarm.
bash is a mid/late skills when you have enough damage and attack speed to proc stun alot and rape them.

with Flight + his stun you can kill most enemys quickly , you should see who is in your lane to choose what spell you get first anyway....

learning lvl 1 bash before lvl 6 is ok , but putting it into stun is better :D

[King`Azeo]

A few things that i think about when playing pesti:

1. Dont gank alone in early/mid game.
2. Dont relay on Gore (its a good skill but you cant expect to stun at first hit off CD)¨
3. Get bkb/shieldbreaker asap
4. Whenever you are not ganking, FARM

Good tips. But just to make things a bit more clear..

1. Dont gank alone in early/mid game. - Even in late game, you shouldn't gank alone. If your early/mid game went well, that's good, but ganking alone late game is still risky, as most times in late game, you need to be sticking together with your team and not wandering alone, unless ofc you want to get ganked.

2. Dont rely on Gore - He's right, don't rely too much on Gore. It IS a good skill, but the fact that it is chance based and has a cool down is probably the only downside to it. That's why you should go with your team mates and go for the kill together, so they can help you kill and vice versa. Gore however, is still better than Flight, early on.

3. Get BKB(Shrunken Head)/Shieldbreaker ASAP - He's right again, but if you were to decide among the two, i'd say that it would be better to invest in Shrunken Head first. It increases your HP, making you last longer, provides good damage, and it can make you immune to magic, which, most of the time, leaves you free to DPS your enemies, as you can worry less about getting disabled. Note however, that there are some nukes/disables that go through the magic immunity.

4. Whenever you are not ganking, FARM - Most of the time you should be ganking with your team, and you should rarely farm. You're a good ganker hero, don't waste that potential. Gank as much as you can. Otherwise, focus on pushing with your team..and if not..then yeah, go farm.


Sigh.

his AoE stun and Flight are his main gank spells along with swarm.
bash is a mid/late skills when you have enough damage and attack speed to proc stun alot and rape them.

with Flight + his stun you can kill most enemys quickly , you should see who is in your lane to choose what spell you get first anyway....

learning lvl 1 bash before lvl 6 is ok , but putting it into stun is better :D

As I said, Gore is better early on because it helps in last hits and helps you DPS better. Flight is bad early on because the 10% increased damage can make you more susceptible to death, as early game is ruled by nukes.

Plus, as I also said, in a competitive/decent game, most of you will be disablers/stunners/slowers. Because of that, when you gank with your team mates, which is what you should do, the enemy will be chain stunned/slowed/disabled, thus they are effectively pinned down, so chasing would be pointless..plus, chasing early on is bad for you as if you chase early on, it will be synonymous that you could be tower diving, and you don't have that much HP early on(To tank towers at least), coupled with the fact that with Flight you will take 10% more damage, and when against a decent team, they too will have a lot of stunners/slowers/disablers, then you're just asking to get yourself killed.

Max stun + bash 1st. It's better. Sure, Flight is ok when you're in a pub, as occasionally you can't really rely on your team mates, and sometimes you have to do everything yourself, but when you do play in a decent game, Stun + Bash is just better.

[k1desu]

well, i have to say that i fail playing pest as well, even tho i used to play slardar only for 6 months, since he's one of my fav's.

im on the opinion that pest is so different from slardar, even tho it's all the same.
maybe it's the attack animation or w/e which makes me notz able to play him as well as slardar

[protoculture]

Some of the advice in this thread has been really great. Personally I never really get shrunken head unless I'm up against hard disables or aoe teams, but I can see that it has a lot of potential for a character like pest so I can't wait to give it a shot.

A few people mentioned Insanitarius but I find it a really hard item to use overall as the drain+flight seems to make me an easy kill. I guess an experienced player could handle it pretty well but it's not the item I would be recommending for us noobs.

[TheYid]

pesti just raped me massively, teach my team to let him farm our mega creeps unmolestered for too long

[dune]

Getting Gore before flight is a terrible idea - it just simply is.

Max stun, then max flight (getting ult at 6), then take gore. One point in gore is OK, but you won't see much result from it until mid-late game, so you may as well take it in the later game!

[BigErn]

In most games getting swarm at level 6 is unnecessary unless ur against a night hound or scout. Maxing flight and impale is strictly better early game.

[Konsume]

I personaly don't know for you guys but my start build with him is more like:

2x gloves (6str)
2x Tango
2x totem

and than fast buy hatchet IN the lane (secret shop), than claw and speed gloves from the secret shop as well and than staying in the lane till I buy boots and store it in the stach... than I normaly stay in lane till i'm out of blights, get my boots and than proceed to get a portal key unless I have lets say.... behemoth/tempest/Kraken in my team.... which I would go for insanitarus/shield breaker/demonic armor/getting my 2 bracers finished while I'm trying to gank!

I don't know for you but I think it's wierd to get hatchet as a starter item cause it's too easy to buy it from the lanes! A few last hits and you get it. Better have other items you can't buy in the lane.

and my skill looks like

stun, flight, stun, flight, stun, flight (swarm only if I have to face a stealth), stun, flight, swarm (gore if I took it on lvl6), gore, gore, gore, gore.......

so far i'm doing great with Pestilence! not the best not the worst ! :D

[Krangry]

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=27580

my guide.

I play him in scrims, almost to a T of what this guide says.

[Guldbonden]

To all those saying you should take Gore instead of Flight.
Why?
Yes, your team might have alot of stunners/slowers but flight is useful in so many ways gore isn't:
If you get killed, you get to the lane faster.
If you're ganking another lane you get over there faster hopefully before they react and go back
If you're chasing down an opponent who survived a team fight.
If you want to be able to actually get away AFTER the enemy team have used up their disables.
Basically every time you want to move somewhere flight helps you getting there faster.

Gore is useful when:
You're in melee range attacking an enemy, period.

[King`Azeo]

Some of the advice in this thread has been really great. Personally I never really get shrunken head unless I'm up against hard disables or aoe teams, but I can see that it has a lot of potential for a character like pest so I can't wait to give it a shot.

A few people mentioned Insanitarius but I find it a really hard item to use overall as the drain+flight seems to make me an easy kill. I guess an experienced player could handle it pretty well but it's not the item I would be recommending for us noobs.

It's great that you were able to find something useful in this thread.

Insanitarius is a good item on Pestilence, and although there are some good tricks that you could do with it, I find that Insanitarius + Flight makes you a tad bit too squishy.

If I were to suggest an Item build, it would be either:

Enhanced Marchers
2x Fortified Bracelets
Shrunken Head
Warpcleft
Whispering Helm

or

Enhanced Marchers
2x Fortified Bracelets
Shrunken Head
Elder Parasite

From my personal experience, either of the 2 item builds makes a decent core item build (i'm not mentioning any luxury items). The 1st one being the one that I use more often, as it has somewhat better survivability than the 2nd..and the 2nd being the better build for burst DPS.

Just my 2 cents.

[Krangry]

It's great that you were able to find something useful in this thread.

Insanitarius is a good item on Pestilence, and although there are some good tricks that you could do with it, I find that Insanitarius + Flight makes you a tad bit too squishy.

If I were to suggest an Item build, it would be either:

Enhanced Marchers
2x Fortified Bracelets
Shrunken Head
Warpcleft
Whispering Helm

or

Enhanced Marchers
2x Fortified Bracelets
Shrunken Head
Elder Parasite

From my personal experience, either of the 2 item builds makes a decent core item build (i'm not mentioning any luxury items). The 1st one being the one that I use more often, as it has somewhat better survivability than the 2nd..and the 2nd being the better build for burst DPS.

Just my 2 cents.

Warpcleft/elder parasite are both items that should wait until after you get your shieldbreaker. you dont need the super fast attack speed. IMO whispering helm/symbol of rage are much stronger than elder parasite also.

[ShadowsCrush]

To be fair waiting till 10 is still too long for gore, especially considering diminishing returns

I almost always get 1 level of gore before 6, and THEN wait to get the rest, since you gain 10% chance with the first and only 5% after that.

Also since your movespeed bonus with flight considering you may or may not have finished boots yet is pretty much balls

Also, as Krangry posted while I was writing mine, whispering helm is much stronger, both for the hp/armor bonus which Pest needs every bit of, as well as the fact that you can carry another stun with you thanks to whispering helm, letting you get extra attacks in and probably allowing you to solo certain heroes you couldn't with only your own stun.

[Godlessmass]

There's a lotta advice in this thread that I wouldn't follow. I dunno what level you're playing at, but I do pretty well with him at my level keeping a few things in mind. Any heroes that can stand toe to toe with pest (dps tanks with lifesteal like predator come to mind) are gonna ruin your day. Try to use Pesti as a counterpick semi-carry, don't force Pesti into a game, choose him against lineups he does well against. Pick fights well and abuse flight like crazy.

My skill build is
1 Impale,
2 flight
3 flight
4 impale,
5 flight,
6 ult,
7 flight,
8 Gore
9 impale
10 impale
11 ult,
12-14 gore x3
15 stats
16 ult

Items = 1x runes, 1x health potion, 2x mana potions, 1x pretender's crown, 2x minor totems.
Then Boots, fortified bracelet (only one), Insanitarius, and steamboots. From there choose based on what you need-- solid choices include shrunken head and daemonic breastplate with heart being a nice final item. Optional earlygame item = Bottle (I rarely get it because with flight and homecoming stones being at your fountain isn't too bad, but Bottle is not a bad investment if your team is fastpushing or counting on you to roam).

Style of play, speed and burst dps. Chasing is good, but take care when and why you're chasing. If you're going to chase, use your movespeed, get them with your ult, pop an impale, move in front of your opponent (so he has to run around you to escape), turn on insanitarius, and enjoy your kill.

Important: Don't forget that you can turn off your Insanitarius as soon as you don't need it anymore. It is often a mistake to leave it on when you're not attacking anything. Also, if it's been more than 10 seconds since you activated your Insanitarius, and you're below 400ish hps, you can quickly turn it off/on and get a quick heal out of the deal. This has saved me more than a few times. So say you just killed one enemy in a 2 man lane and the other guy is running away. You don't need to leave your insanitarius on while you're chasing the other guy. Turn it off, and turn it back on when you catch him. Just remember that insanitarius has a 10 second cooldown (from activation to activation) so you can't spam it, but you can get pretty close.

On Skills:
Why flight first? It is, hands down, Pesti's best skill. Yes, it's better than pesti's ult. The damage on your impale is great early, but what you need it for is it's stun, and you get that with level 1 Impale. Flight gets you into a fight/gank fast and it's a great escape mechanism too! Unfortunately, it's pretty bad if it's only ranked level 1-2. With max flight by level 7 and a stun of your own, you'll escape ganks even if you get stunned for a couple seconds. If you only have 2 levels of flight by level 7, triggering flight will just make you a juicier target.

Gore is better than raw stats, imo, but definitely not as vital to your role as your other skills. 1 level of gore at 8 is optional. Decide for yourself if you want 10% gore or 50 more damage on Impale. Should you get gore at level 4 and leave Impale at rank 1? I'd say no, but I haven't tried it to be honest.

On items:
Why not enhanced marchers? They're not bad, but steamboots synergize better with flight.

Why not 2 fortified Bracelets? Because getting Insanitarius fast is important for your ganks.

Why not Portal Key? Ug... if you're just messing around, sure. You can be your team's initiator. I don't like this style, though. Pestilence is better entering fights late with flight on.

Why not lifesteal? Lifesteal will counteract your insanitarius, sure, but it's low priority. I only get it after I have everthing else I need... and NEVER get Elder Parasite... Pesti already takes 10% extra damage, another 30% on top of that with insanitarius draining? No thanks! Also, Elder Parasite's movespeed bonus is wasted since Pesti already travels at max movespeed. If you want lifesteal, go with Symbol of Rage... and get it after you have everything else you need. Abyssal Skull is a decent cheap alternative to Daemonic Breastplate, but only go that route if you're really struggling.

Why not Shieldbreaker? It's overkill, imo. Since Insanitarius takes priority, by the time you can afford Shieldbreaker as a second item in most games, your ult will be reducing your target's armor by enough that the xtra armor reduction won't be a great benefit to you. Work on getting Daemonic Breastplate instead as that'll benefit your whole team.

Why not shaman's headdress or barrier idol? Pesti is a hit-n-run sorta hero. If you need magic protection, shrunken head is ideal.

I had problems with Pesti/slardar, too, before I started using this flight-first build. Hope this helps ya.

[King`Azeo]

Getting Gore before flight is a terrible idea - it just simply is.

Max stun, then max flight (getting ult at 6), then take gore. One point in gore is OK, but you won't see much result from it until mid-late game, so you may as well take it in the later game!

How is it a terrible idea? 10% is a measly chance, and the damage bonus it gives isn't that much.

As I stated, if you were playing with any decent team at all, around 3-5 heroes to your team would have stuns/slows/disables..

Why bother chasing the enemy so deep into their territory or into their allies when you and your team can just pin them down and beat them up?

If you want to do some chasing early on, and if it is ever actually necessary, get Enhanced Marchers. It gives you decent MS, the Phase ability, and you don't take extra damage.

Trust me, 10% extra damage taken is a lot..especially considering that early game(levels 1-8), your HP is less than 1000, and most decent enemy teams have stuns/disables/slows that will make your chasing much harder..and if you are unlucky, it could even cause your death.


To all those saying you should take Gore instead of Flight.
Why?
Yes, your team might have alot of stunners/slowers but flight is useful in so many ways gore isn't:
If you get killed, you get to the lane faster.
If you're ganking another lane you get over there faster hopefully before they react and go back
If you're chasing down an opponent who survived a team fight.
If you want to be able to actually get away AFTER the enemy team have used up their disables.
Basically every time you want to move somewhere flight helps you getting there faster.

Gore is useful when:
You're in melee range attacking an enemy, period. Are you sure of that?

If you do manage to get killed(which shouldn't happen if you had decent map awareness, caution and if you are playing right), buy a TP scroll. TP back to your lane. You get back to your lane faster, for 135 gold.

If you are ganking another lane, again, buy a TP scroll, you get there faster. Just 135 gold.

If you and your team mates have a **** load of disables, and if you all coordinated and played right, then how will your enemy escape? Even after the stun time of skills wears off, you have decent attack speed with even an enhanced marchers on, and with high levels of gore, you will proc a bash fairly often, thus making it even harder for your enemy to escape. The only exception I see to this is you fight a hero like Magebane and Wretched Hag, who have blink..but then again, if you do manage to catch them and disable them as hell, and seeing as they are squishy heroes, why chase when you can kill them quickly and on the spot?

If you want to escape after the enemy team has used up their disables, well, this is the only valid point I see with getting Flight early. Then again, if you were playing competitively and smart, you would always be going with an ally, and packing a TP scroll with you to TP away in case something might go wrong. Or, if you do manage to get disabled by the enemy, you probably need to learn to utilize the Fog of War and practice your juking skills. Juke + TP > Flight.

Most skilled players always bring along a TP scroll with them. Even in DotA, which this game is based on, if you played in competitive leagues/tournaments, players will always bring a TP scroll with them because of the sheer mobility it has..and no, don't argue, "DotA is different from HoN now", because TP scrolls in DotA are the same as TP scrolls in HoN.

Gore is useful because:

It can help you last hit when it procs.
It can make the enemy more helpless, and make the feel more pain, when it procs, which from my experience, is fairly often, as soon as you max it out. 25% chance is huge.


Warpcleft/elder parasite are both items that should wait until after you get your shieldbreaker. you dont need the super fast attack speed. IMO whispering helm/symbol of rage are much stronger than elder parasite also.That is not true in all cases. Most of the time you should be going for Shrunken Head first so you make sure you are free to beat up the enemy and be immune to most disables, unless of course you have an ally Jeraziah to cast Protective Charm on you then by all means go Shieldbreaker first.

I agree with your opinion that Whispering Helm/Symbol of Rage are much stronger compared to Elder Parasite, which is true. Whispering Helm gives you damage, armor, higher lifesteal, and the ability to dominate a creep. Which helps my point on Gore instead of Flight. With decent micro, and if you do manage to dominate the creep that stuns(Catman Champion, am I right?), then you would make it harder for the enemy to escape, plus you wouldn't need to go so deep into their territory, which is much better compared to the bonus ASPD + MS + increased damage taken given by Elder Parasite. Which is why, early on, Gore is better than Flight.

I also stated too though, that the build I go for is the one that contains the Whispering Helm..I just stated the build with Elder Parasite as a form of alternative if they want something different, but also still decent/effective.


Why flight first? It is, hands down, Pesti's best skill. Yes, it's better than pesti's ult. The damage on your impale is great early, but what you need it for is it's stun, and you get that with level 1 Impale. Flight gets you into a fight/gank fast and it's a great escape mechanism too! Unfortunately, it's pretty bad if it's only ranked level 1-2. With max flight by level 7 and a stun of your own, you'll escape ganks even if you get stunned for a couple seconds. If you only have 2 levels of flight by level 7, triggering flight will just make you a juicier target.

Gore is better than raw stats, imo, but definitely not as vital to your role as your other skills.

On items:
Why not enhanced marchers? They're not bad, but steamboots synergize better with flight.

Why not 2 fortified Bracelets? Because getting Insanitarius fast is important for your ganks.

Why not Portal Key? Ug... if you're just messing around, sure. You can be your team's initiator. I don't like this style, though. Pestilence is better entering fights late with flight on.

Why not lifesteal? Lifesteal will counteract your insanitarius, sure, but it's low priority. I only get it after I have everthing else I need... and NEVER get Elder Parasite... Pesti already takes 10% extra damage, another 30% on top of that with insanitarius draining? No thanks! Also, Elder Parasite's movespeed bonus is wasted since Pesti already travels at max movespeed. If you want lifesteal, go with Symbol of Rage... and get it after you have everything else you need. Abyssal Skull is a decent cheap alternative to Daemonic Breastplate, but only go that route if you're really struggling.

Why not Shieldbreaker? It's overkill, imo. Since Insanitarius takes priority, by the time you can afford Shieldbreaker as a second item in most games, your ult will be reducing your target's armor by enough that the xtra armor reduction won't be a great benefit to you. Work on getting Daemonic Breastplate instead as that'll benefit your whole team.

Why not shaman's headdress or barrier idol? Pesti is a hit-n-run sorta hero. If you need magic protection, shrunken head is ideal.

Hope this helps ya.

Flight is not Pestilence's best skill..it's like you are saying that Spring is Slardar's best skill, since Pestilence is just a carbon copy of Slardar, the only difference being that Pesti's bash has a cooldown, which is a minor drawback that can be ignored. Pesti's ulti is better than Flight. It amplifies damage, it reveals enemies. It doesn't only amplify your damage, but the damage of your entire team as well.

Again, I say, why bother to chase when you and your team mates, which if guys are a decent team, have picked a lot of disablers/stunners/slowers? Why bother going deeper and deeper into enemy territory when you can beat them up and kill nearer to your territory? In a war, that is stupid. The nearer you are to allied territory, the better.

Gore isn't as vital to your role as your other skills? Are you serious? What kind of games have you been playing? :|

2x Fortified Bracelets is cheaper than Insanitarius, plus, with the HP drain of insanitarius, and the bonus damage done to you by Flight..you get disabled, then you die quickly. Which is what a decent team will do, they will have a lot of disablers/stunners/slowers. They will disable you and kill you.

Elder Parasite is decent. It gives you bonus attack speed, which helps you bash better, the movespeed it gives is decent as well..and if I did check last time..Elder Parasite doesn't stack with Flight..if you use one the other cancels out..but i'd rather have Elder Parasite on for the bonus attackspeed it gives. I'm not saying Elder Parasite is a great item..i'm just saying that it is a decent item, although yeah, there are better choices.

Shieldbreaker is better than Insanitarius. It gives you more DPS, hands down. It also synergizes with your ultimate. Also, there isn't any health drain on Shieldbreaker. I'm not saying Insanitarius is a bad item, it's just that there are better item choices for Pestilence. If I were to pick a hero with whom to use Insanitarius on, I would rather get it on Hammerstorm or Predator. Hammerstorm for it synergizing with his ultimate, and Predator for obvious reasons on why you get Armlet of Mordiggan for N'aix in DotA.

Why not get BOTH Shieldbreaker and Daemonic Breastplate? They're both good items for Pestilence.

Abyssal Skull? You have got to be kidding me. Abyssal Skull, a.k.a. Vladimir's Offering, is one of the worst items in the game in terms of Cost to Effect ratio. It is just a bad item for it's cost, hands down. It is just as bad in HoN as it is bad in DotA. There are much better things you can buy with the gold you spend on Abyssal Skull..I can't believe you even considered it. :|

[Krangry]

That is not true in all cases. Most of the time you should be going for Shrunken Head first so you make sure you are free to beat up the enemy and be immune to most disables, unless of course you have an ally Jeraziah to cast Protective Charm on you then by all means go Shieldbreaker first.

I agree with your opinion that Whispering Helm/Symbol of Rage are much stronger compared to Elder Parasite, which is true. Whispering Helm gives you damage, armor, higher lifesteal, and the ability to dominate a creep. Which helps my point on Gore instead of Flight. With decent micro, and if you do manage to dominate the creep that stuns(Catman Champion, am I right?), then you would make it harder for the enemy to escape, plus you wouldn't need to go so deep into their territory, which is much better compared to the bonus ASPD + MS + increased damage taken given by Elder Parasite. Which is why, early on, Gore is better than Flight.

I also stated too though, that the build I go for is the one that contains the Whispering Helm..I just stated the build with Elder Parasite as a form of alternative if they want something different, but also still decent/effective.

I stated that is it better before warpcleft/elder parasite. Shrunken head is always first item after blink

[SLeePz]

reading guides and following what people build is one thing, its HOW you play the hero.

[Godlessmass]

Flight is not Pestilence's best skill..it's like you are saying that Spring is Slardar's best skill, since Pestilence is just a carbon copy of Slardar, the only difference being that Pesti's bash has a cooldown, which is a minor drawback that can be ignored. Pesti's ulti is better than Flight. It amplifies damage, it reveals enemies. It doesn't only amplify your damage, but the damage of your entire team as well.

Imo, max movespeed is better than armor reduction and truesight. That goes for slardar's spring, too. You can buy armor reduction and truesight, you can't buy max movespeed.


Again, I say, why bother to chase when you and your team mates, which if guys are a decent team, have picked a lot of disablers/stunners/slowers?

If someone's struggling to maintain positive K/D ratio with pesti/slardar, they don't have coordinated teammates. And even with coordinated teammates, max movespeed is better for landing your impale on a fleeing opponent. Period.


Gore isn't as vital to your role as your other skills? Are you serious? What kind of games have you been playing? :|

The kind where I rely on the reliable. When I play blacksmith, I use fireball for the stun. If I happen to multicast and one-shot a squishy, that's great, but I'm not gonna count on it. It's ridiculous to say that Gore improves your last hit (yeah, let's predict when that 10% proc is gonna happen!). You get gore to further hamper your opponent's ability to flee... and it's obvious why YOU think it's important, since you all but ignore the value of flight.


2x Fortified Bracelets is cheaper than Insanitarius, plus, with the HP drain of insanitarius, and the bonus damage done to you by Flight..you get disabled, then you die quickly. Which is what a decent team will do, they will have a lot of disablers/stunners/slowers. They will disable you and kill you.

You can turn off Insanitarius when it's disadvantageous to use it. For the price, there is no better item for a hit and run str hero, and that's how I play pesti.


Elder Parasite is decent.

I don't see how you can support the use of elder parasite immediately after ragging on insanitarius. Every fault you named for insanitarius is WORSE for elder parasite users since you can't turn the blasted thing off. And attack speed is only important on Pesti if you RELY on proccing gores.... which using my build, you shouldn't be doing. As I said in my first post, the movespeed is pointless, since pesti already travels at max movespeed.


Shieldbreaker is better than Insanitarius. It gives you more DPS, hands down. It also synergizes with your ultimate.

After some tests in practice mode, I have to admit that you're right about Shieldbreaker being a better DPS item... especially against heavily armored heroes. At level 6 versus a 4 armor opponent, Shieldbreaker did 20-30 more damage per hit than did Insanitarius. So, good point. 'Course... Insanitarius IS 1550g cheaper. But shoot, ~25 damage per hit is worth it! :P


Why not get BOTH Shieldbreaker and Daemonic Breastplate? They're both good items for Pestilence.

Maybe so!


Abyssal Skull? You have got to be kidding me. Abyssal Skull, a.k.a. Vladimir's Offering, is one of the worst items in the game in terms of Cost to Effect ratio. It is just a bad item for it's cost, hands down. It is just as bad in HoN as it is bad in DotA. There are much better things you can buy with the gold you spend on Abyssal Skull..I can't believe you even considered it. :|

Here you're just being bigotted. Abyssal Skull aka Vladmir's Offering got a bad rap because retards put it on agi carries, and in that capacity it IS horrible! But, imo it's actually a pretty good alternative for Daemonic Breastplate users, especially considering its price. What it lacks in attackspeed and neg. armor auras it makes up for with damage and lifesteal auras. Of course, Daemonic Breastplate's positive armor aura doesn't stack with Abyssal Skull's, but I wasn't suggesting you get both... just if you're really struggling, consider Abyssal Skull instead of Daemonic Breastplate.

[cvk]

first item you get on pest is a dagger unless your team has a better initator, which is highly doubtful and still most likelly you still want dagger on him just lets you get kills easier. Also wtf is a cleaver? runed axe? Also never get that ****. Get bkb after dagger, also get phaseboots and 1 or 2 bracers early game for survivabilty. Finish off with shieldbreaker and deamonic or satanic. Also gore at lvl 2 seems to be more usefull since u not gonna flight that early, and those random bashes could come in handy for last hits and just harrasment.

best suggestion, which keeps getting repeated by good players and ignored by bads in this thread.

/thread

[LegoPirate]

Good tips. But just to make things a bit more clear..

1. Dont gank alone in early/mid game. - Even in late game, you shouldn't gank alone. If your early/mid game went well, that's good, but ganking alone late game is still risky, as most times in late game, you need to be sticking together with your team and not wandering alone, unless ofc you want to get ganked.

2. Dont rely on Gore - He's right, don't rely too much on Gore. It IS a good skill, but the fact that it is chance based and has a cool down is probably the only downside to it. That's why you should go with your team mates and go for the kill together, so they can help you kill and vice versa. Gore however, is still better than Flight, early on.

3. Get BKB(Shrunken Head)/Shieldbreaker ASAP - He's right again, but if you were to decide among the two, i'd say that it would be better to invest in Shrunken Head first. It increases your HP, making you last longer, provides good damage, and it can make you immune to magic, which, most of the time, leaves you free to DPS your enemies, as you can worry less about getting disabled. Note however, that there are some nukes/disables that go through the magic immunity.

4. Whenever you are not ganking, FARM - Most of the time you should be ganking with your team, and you should rarely farm. You're a good ganker hero, don't waste that potential. Gank as much as you can. Otherwise, focus on pushing with your team..and if not..then yeah, go farm.



As I said, Gore is better early on because it helps in last hits and helps you DPS better. Flight is bad early on because the 10% increased damage can make you more susceptible to death, as early game is ruled by nukes.

Plus, as I also said, in a competitive/decent game, most of you will be disablers/stunners/slowers. Because of that, when you gank with your team mates, which is what you should do, the enemy will be chain stunned/slowed/disabled, thus they are effectively pinned down, so chasing would be pointless..plus, chasing early on is bad for you as if you chase early on, it will be synonymous that you could be tower diving, and you don't have that much HP early on(To tank towers at least), coupled with the fact that with Flight you will take 10% more damage, and when against a decent team, they too will have a lot of stunners/slowers/disablers, then you're just asking to get yourself killed.

Max stun + bash 1st. It's better. Sure, Flight is ok when you're in a pub, as occasionally you can't really rely on your team mates, and sometimes you have to do everything yourself, but when you do play in a decent game, Stun + Bash is just better.

if you watch some pro dota games, all of the best dota players get sprint/crush first.

so my point is your wrong. flight > gore early game.

unless you want to argue you know competitive gaming better then the best of the best?

[Kietharr]

to all the noobs reading this, DO NOT LISTEN to what he has said... Get 1 point of gore after 2 points of flight not all 4 flight before a single in gore... And dont get insantarius on pestilence... get a Cleaver early game to farm then go BKB unless u cant farm the cleaver then go straight for bkb... finish the cleaver then get a demonic brestplate.

This one has no clue. I used to get one point of Gore early for luck bashes in chases but it's so bad in HoN that I can barely justify getting it over stats, the only thing that makes it worthwhile is it stuns through BKB.

Item build is 1 bracer, power supply, steamboots (given the fact that they're changed back in DotA I expect them to change here) armlet whispering helm shrunken head. If you're playing initiator get portal key first thing after basics.

[King`Azeo]

Imo, max movespeed is better than armor reduction and truesight. That goes for slardar's spring, too. You can buy armor reduction and truesight, you can't buy max movespeed.

If someone's struggling to maintain positive K/D ratio with pesti/slardar, they don't have coordinated teammates. And even with coordinated teammates, max movespeed is better for landing your impale on a fleeing opponent. Period.
You can buy max MS..albeit at a very expensive price..and is pointless too..Geometer's Bane + H n S + Post Haste. Voila! Max MS.

Anyway, in a more serious note, i'm sure that you'll agree with me when I say that, if you are in any decent/competitive game, it doesn't matter who gets the kill. A kill is a kill. It is a +1 for your team and a -1 for enemy. I still say however that, since most of the time, in a competitive game, you would usually lane with a stunner or slower, making it fairly easy to land your stun.


The kind where I rely on the reliable. When I play blacksmith, I use fireball for the stun. If I happen to multicast and one-shot a squishy, that's great, but I'm not gonna count on it. It's ridiculous to say that Gore improves your last hit (yeah, let's predict when that 10% proc is gonna happen!). You get gore to further hamper your opponent's ability to flee... and it's obvious why YOU think it's important, since you all but ignore the value of flight.I'm not ignoring the value of flight. But it seems that you ignore the potential and the value having a point or two in Gore has early game.

If you are implying that I don't rely on the reliable at all, then i'd like to correct you on that..if I didn't rely on the reliable, then i'd get Gore - Stats and forget about Flight and Impale early game! Seriously, i'm not that foolish.

Yes, Gore is by chance, but on the occasion that it DOES proc, then hey, it's a +1 for you, a -1 for the enemy.


You can turn off Insanitarius when it's disadvantageous to use it. For the price, there is no better item for a hit and run str hero, and that's how I play pesti.Yes, you can. Hell, Insanitarius can even be used to survive nukes and the HP tricks you can do with it are marvelous, but then again..I still say that when combined with Flight, it becomes a bit too disadvantageous as you lose as much as you gain. You deal awesome DPS and you start hitting like a truck, but hey, if you get stunned/disabled, it would be VERY disadvantageous to you..and as I said, in most competitive/decent games, there are a fair amount of disablers/stunners in each team. I don't think it is worth the risk man. Then again, if it works for you, then go for it. I respect your opinion. I just think that there are better choices..for me, I would rather have a Shrunken Head as a first item instead of Insanitarius..or maybe even Shieldbreaker. Yes, Insanitarius is cheaper..but still..just my opinion though.



I don't see how you can support the use of elder parasite immediately after ragging on insanitarius. Every fault you named for insanitarius is WORSE for elder parasite users since you can't turn the blasted thing off. And attack speed is only important on Pesti if you RELY on proccing gores.... which using my build, you shouldn't be doing. As I said in my first post, the movespeed is pointless, since pesti already travels at max movespeed.I'm not advocating Elder Parasite or something. I'm just saying that it has potential when used with Pestilence. It isn't the best item for him, but it's still decent. I agree with you when you say there are better choices, but again, I don't agree with your using Insanitarius. I think there are better options.


After some tests in practice mode, I have to admit that you're right about Shieldbreaker being a better DPS item... especially against heavily armored heroes. At level 6 versus a 4 armor opponent, Shieldbreaker did 20-30 more damage per hit than did Insanitarius. So, good point. 'Course... Insanitarius IS 1550g cheaper. But shoot, ~25 damage per hit is worth it! :PThe 25 damage per hit..are you referring to Shieldbreaker? Sorry if my comprehesion is a bit dull right now. It's 4 a.m. in my place and i'm sleepy, so I apologize in advance in case I misinterpreted some of the things you said.


Here you're just being bigotted. Abyssal Skull aka Vladmir's Offering got a bad rap because retards put it on agi carries, and in that capacity it IS horrible! But, imo it's actually a pretty good alternative for Daemonic Breastplate users, especially considering its price. What it lacks in attackspeed and neg. armor auras it makes up for with damage and lifesteal auras. Of course, Daemonic Breastplate's positive armor aura doesn't stack with Abyssal Skull's, but I wasn't suggesting you get both... just if you're really struggling, consider Abyssal Skull instead of Daemonic Breastplate.I agree with you that getting Abyssal Skull on agi carries is retarded..and the number of noobs who get it is at horrifying levels, but I support my decision that it is unwise to get it for the horrible effect/cost ratio. Yes, the effects of it are good..but it's just that some of it's auras are situational..and that the total cost of the item should honestly, be lowered.

The lifesteal aura is only good if you have a good amount of melee heroes on the team, and they still have to be those that rely on DPS, to make the lifesteal aura worth it for them.

The damage aura is only good if you have a good amount of heroes on your team that rely on Physical DPS to deal damage, and considering the current metagame, in a standard competitive team, most of the damage is dealt via Nukes/AoE spells.

In the case stated above, most times, the only person who will really benefit from the aura..is you. But because of the bad effect/cost ratio of the item, i'd rather get something else. I'm not saying that Abyssal Skull is a bad item. I'm just saying that, for a team item that is supposed to benefit most, if not your entire team, it is very situational, and often times, it is only you who would benefit the most from it..and coupled with it's cost..yeah, it has a bad cost/efficiency ratio. I would rather use that money to get myself Whispering Helm..which is much more helpful, for you and your team.


if you watch some pro dota games, all of the best dota players get sprint/crush first.

so my point is your wrong. flight > gore early game.

unless you want to argue you know competitive gaming better then the best of the best? I don't agree with you when you say "all the best DotA players". If you watched the highest tier of DotA League games..Slardar isn't that common a pick, buddy..he is virtually non existent in the highest tier. So your argument that "all the best DotA players" is flawed.

I'm not saying that I know better than the best of the best..but, by any chance, are you implying that YOU are the best of the best?

Honestly, my point is simple. A point or two(in my case I go three)in Gore can be a good investment. Yes, it relies on chance, but when it does proc, well, wouldn't you be thankful? Honestly, are you implying we should delay Gore till levels 10, 12-14 or 12-15?

That, buddy, would be delaying Gore too much. Flight early on isn't bad, if you read one of my earlier posts, I mentioned that..but i'm just saying that a point or two in Gore can be a huge help early on. Yes, it relies on chance, but when lady luck smiles on you, you'd be one happy man.

Personally my skill build goes something like this:

1. Impale
2. Gore
3. Impale
4. Gore
5. Impale
6. Swarm
7. Impale
8. Gore/Flight
9. Flight
10. Flight
11. Swarm
12. Flight
13. Flight/Gore
14. Gore
15. Stats
16. Swarm
17-25. Stats

Yes, I get Gore early on, because although it relies on chance..I don't see as to why you would chase anyone during levels 1-5..especially if it would be deep into their territory/tower diving. You are way too squishy early on during levels 1-5, so I think that getting Flight during those levels is a bad idea, as you also take 10% more damage.

Now, depending on how you feel, either you take a 3rd level of Gore at level 8, or stop putting points for awhile after you have put at least 2 points into Gore, during levels 2 and 4, in favor of Flight. 15-20% chance to bash is a decent chance to bash..and definitely better than a measly 10%. I don't want to delay Flight for too long, as by the time you reach levels 8-9 where you would have some Fortified Bracelets and some boots, you could chase the enemy, if they do manage to get the chance to make a get away from you and your team mates after you're through disabling and and beating the hell out of the enemy. Although I would still say that provided you and your team coordinated well, then you will, 7-8 times out of 10, have killed the enemy.


This one has no clue. I used to get one point of Gore early for luck bashes in chases but it's so bad in HoN that I can barely justify getting it over stats, the only thing that makes it worthwhile is it stuns through BKB.One point of Gore early on is pointless, 10% is such a measly chance. If I were you, I would get at least 2-3 levels of Gore early on.

[stuartb]

You need to learn to use Insanitarius better. It's a tough item to get the hang of, but killing int hero's early-mid game within pesty's stun duration is wicked nasty.

[Vodka]

Flight lets you chase with the equivalent of marchers from lvl 2 (even better if you get marchers from your courier), not to mention its a lot better for escaping than having to turn around and hope you bash them. Pest without flight is just naked.

[Vodka]

Honestly, my point is simple. A point or two(in my case I go three)in Gore can be a good investment. Yes, it relies on chance, but when it does proc, well, wouldn't you be thankful? Honestly, are you implying we should delay Gore till levels 10, 12-14 or 12-15?

That, buddy, would be delaying Gore too much. Flight early on isn't bad, if you read one of my earlier posts, I mentioned that..but i'm just saying that a point or two in Gore can be a huge help early on. Yes, it relies on chance, but when lady luck smiles on you, you'd be one happy man.

Personally my skill build goes something like this:

1. Impale
2. Gore
3. Impale
4. Gore


Stopped reading there. So by level 4 you'll be a happy man 15% of the time while you're attacking, and 85% you'll be sad and your lanemate raging at you for not being able to chase and land your stun. Yeah, good build. You're choosing to rely on chance instead of CHASING with an easily predictable and much more potent 8-second CD stun. Sure bash will work SOME of the time, but you don't always have the leisure to rely on luck, especially in competitive games I imagine. Hell I don't rely on it in pubs either.

[Godlessmass]

You can buy max MS..albeit at a very expensive price..and is pointless too..Geometer's Bane + H n S + Post Haste. Voila! Max MS.

That's like, at most, 480 MS. Max is 522, yo.


The 25 damage per hit..are you referring to Shieldbreaker? Sorry if my comprehesion is a bit dull right now. It's 4 a.m. in my place and i'm sleepy, so I apologize in advance in case I misinterpreted some of the things you said.

Under the conditions I specified, Shieldbreaker does +25 damage per hit when compared to Insanitarius. The speed with which you can farm up Insanitarius makes it more viable, imo. Clearly you disagree and would rather wait for Shieldbreaker.


I agree with you that getting Abyssal Skull on agi carries is retarded..and the number of noobs who get it is at horrifying levels, but I support my decision that it is unwise to get it for the horrible effect/cost ratio. Yes, the effects of it are good..but it's just that some of it's auras are situational..and that the total cost of the item should honestly, be lowered.

Daemonic Breastplate is affected by the same conditions that can make Abyssal Skull a poor investment. If your team is not a physical DPS team, Breastplate's negative armor and attack speed aura's will likely not benefit them. I.e. with a cost of 5550g, DBreastplate can be a bad investment. If your team does rely significantly upon physical DPS and can benefit from DBreastplate, but you happen to be struggling and can't afford it in a reasonable timeframe, Abyssal Skull is a workable alternative (with it's much more modest pricetag of 2050g). In general, if DBreastplate is a good investment, then Abyssal Skull is also a good investment assuming you're not farming well.


Yes, I get Gore early on, because although it relies on chance..I don't see as to why you would chase anyone during levels 1-5..especially if it would be deep into their territory/tower diving. You are way too squishy early on during levels 1-5, so I think that getting Flight during those levels is a bad idea, as you also take 10% more damage.

I'm sure you've ganked people after picking up a haste rune. It is killer. With maxed flight, you can do that ALL THE TIME. Why on earth would you want to delay that advantage? The only reason I can think is so that you can have a powerful Impale for Portal Key initiation at a specific time (by the first teamfight). But for Gore??

[King`Azeo]

Stopped reading there. So by level 4 you'll be a happy man 15% of the time while you're attacking, and 85% you'll be sad and your lanemate raging at you for not being able to chase and land your stun. Yeah, good build. You're choosing to rely on chance instead of CHASING with an easily predictable and much more potent 8-second CD stun. Sure bash will work SOME of the time, but you don't always have the leisure to rely on luck, especially in competitive games I imagine. Hell I don't rely on it in pubs either.

From my experience every time I have used Pestilence, 1 or 2 levels of Gore early on always help. Again, yes, it is by chance, but again, if it does proc, and hell, it can proc twice in a row after it's cd is finished, then it would really benefit you. Honestly, we could use mathematics here in order to solve how often x will happen in y period of time. There was a mathcraft thread about it in DotA..i'm sure that it we could use the same calculations to figure our your actual bash chance based on your attack speed + the bash chance + a given period of time.

You guys are underestimating Gore. I'm honestly starting to think, how hard could it be to land Impale? I mean, as I stated, when you are paired up with a person who could stun or slow or disable, landing impale should be very easy..and frankly, I rarely miss landing Impale.



That's like, at most, 480 MS. Max is 522, yo.

I know 522 is Max MS..and I did specify that item build as a joke build. I've been playing DotA ever since 6.10 came out almost 6 years ago. I'm not that ignorant to basic stuff like "Max MS".


Under the conditions I specified, Shieldbreaker does +25 damage per hit when compared to Insanitarius. The speed with which you can farm up Insanitarius makes it more viable, imo. Clearly you disagree and would rather wait for Shieldbreaker.

Did I say that I go Shieldbreaker 1st? No, I didn't. I did mention I go Shrunken Head first since the Magic Immunity it gives is a godsend, as it allows me to DPS as much as I want with little hindrance.


Daemonic Breastplate is affected by the same conditions that candoes rely significantly upon physical DPS and can benefit from DBreastplate, but you happen to be struggling and can't afford it in a reasonable timeframe, Abyssal Skull is a workable alternative (with it's much more modest pricetag of 2050g). In general, if DBreastplate is a good investment, then Abyssal Skull is also a good investment assuming you're not farming well.

Daemonic Breastplate is in a different league from Abyssal Skull. It gives you more survivability than Abyssal Skull does, and it actually focuses on one thing: DPS. Even though only you will be benefitting from it, at least DBreastplate focuses from one thing instead of giving a little bit of everything that Abyssal Skull gives. If you want, we could even do the Math to compare how much improvement Abyssal Skull is from it's components given it's cost. It's bad. I'm not joking.


I'm sure you've ganked people after picking up a haste rune. It is killer. With maxed flight, you can do that ALL THE TIME. Why on earth would you want to delay that advantage? The only reason I can think is so that you can have a powerful Impale for Portal Key initiation at a specific time (by the first teamfight). But for Gore??

Yes, I have ganked people after picking up a haste rune, it was killer. Honestly, I respect your skill/item build, hell, I even see the pros and cons of it..and hell, i've even used it, but from my personal experience, my skill/item build is more balanced, and it does work for me. Another thing you should take into account in the game is variability. Although there are heroes that have "one right skill/item build" for them, I believe Pestilence isn't one of those. He's straightforward, but still flexible..and certain times we should pick our skills and items depending on the enemy line up.

Mate, the problem I see here though is, you're a bit too narrow-minded with things. I came up with my build through my practice and experimentation, maybe you should also try it out, since you never know when a point or two of Gore could be really helpful. Delaying it until midgame will take too long, heck, since you guys don't like the chance factor of Gore, why don't you play a game with Pestilence without taking a single level of Gore till the last 4 levels? Although chance based, Gore is a good skill man, you're underrating it.

[Madlobster]

All the good pestilences I have seen have one very destinct thing in common.
They all have portal key.

All the sucky pestilences I have seen have one very destinct thing in common.
They all lack portal key :D

[King`Azeo]

All the good pestilences I have seen have one very destinct thing in common.
They all have portal key.

All the sucky pestilences I have seen have one very destinct thing in common.
They all lack portal key :D

Portal Key is a great item on Pestilence, since it allows for blink-stuns to happen, which is great..but there are times that there is someone more suited to getting Portal Key than you are, heroes who are better initiators..Legionnaire/Magmus/Behemoth/Tempest..and occasionally, Soul Stealer and Slither.

I'm only contradicting you because you used the word "all". I play Pestilence, and usually I don't even bother buying Portal Key since usually, I would have one of the above mentioned initiators to initiate for me and my team..and you could still initiate well without Portal Key since you have Flight for uber movespeed, and only the heroes with blink or wind walk have a good chance to avoid you, as few heroes are faster than a Pestilence in Flight.

[kitteh]

Portal Key is a great item on Pestilence, since it allows for blink-stuns to happen, which is great..but there are times that there is someone more suited to getting Portal Key than you are, heroes who are better initiators..Legionnaire/Magmus/Behemoth/Tempest..and occasionally, Soul Stealer and Slither.

I'm only contradicting you because you used the word "all". I play Pestilence, and usually I don't even bother buying Portal Key since usually, I would have one of the above mentioned initiators to initiate for me and my team..and you could still initiate well without Portal Key since you have Flight for uber movespeed, and only the heroes with blink or wind walk have a good chance to avoid you, as few heroes are faster than a Pestilence in Flight.

Hi there. Just butting in with my two cents. Why wouldn't you want to have a portal key? If your team-mate gets a portal key, why shouldn't you get one? It's not like it is non-beneficial like getting a mock of brilliance after your sand wraith gets one. Even if they can initiate first, wouldn't having a portal key mean that you can place your follow-up stun right on the dot without using Flight? Right? Many questions has I. :(

[Knepig]

imo pest is THE strongest hero late game

[zom1]

How is it a terrible idea? 10% is a measly chance, and the damage bonus it gives isn't that much.


Theres quite a few flaws with what youre saying gore does not help with last hitting unless youre auto attacking creeps. You dont last hit with the intention of having the extra gore dmg. Having superior move speed during early game is a huge advantage to chase down that hero with a hit or 2 left. This is also works the other way with escaping. There is no reason you should ever max his passive over his main escape/chase ability ever.

As for the op if you lane with a slow or another stunner pestilence is absolutely brutal. Also becareful when you decide to use flight the extra dmg can be really bad. If youre coming from darkness on someone you dont always need it and can use it to run away from the gank if it goes bad or chase to get the last few hits.

[Tripwyr]

I always get Impale/Gore/Impale/Flight/Impale/Swarm/Impale/Flight/Flight/Flight/Swarm/Gorex3

The reason for this is that Gore is great for harassment, and you can capitalize on the stun when it procs. A lot of the time (when playing with partner(s)) I will just attack people once then back off, repeating this until Gore procs. As soon as Gore procs, I keep attacking and follow it up with Impale, then my ally usually follows up with slow (I almost always lane with a DShaman).

So why do I wait for Gore procs? Mostly because it's a guarantee. The extra second or two of time to attack often makes or breaks the kill for me. In addition, it acts as a cue for my ally to start attacking as well. He knows that if I proc a gore, he needs to start attacking and prepare for a heal -> slow after my impale. If I simply start with impale, he might be too far away, not ready, or some other excuse for why he didn't help. When I just yell "GOGOGOGOGO" on vent/VoIP, I'm having to start running in to impale and making it obvious because of the delay before he hears me. If I just use gore as a visual cue, not only can the enemy not react, but he has time to catch up if I'm a little extended.

[Skibbi]

whenever my team has pesti i got with Shaman or nympho. keeping a pest topped up (health, mana, or both) and able to stun usually means he'll get a couple extra kills and be able to afford the good items to pwn face

[BigErn]

I've been testing pest builds the last couple of days. My skill build is still maxing flight + Impale levels 1-8, swarm on level 9, gore on level 10. My item build the last few days of been Insantaious, Abys Skull, Riftshards and working on late game Breastplate. I like this build a lot as it seems to cut thru most hero's like butter. I feel shieldbreaker + swarm is just overkill. Riftshards + Insantarious = massive dps. Just last night I was 15-0 with this build.

[JoeStalin]

I've been testing pest builds the last couple of days. My skill build is still maxing flight + Impale levels 1-8, swarm on level 9, gore on level 10. My item build the last few days of been Insantaious, Abys Skull, Riftshards and working on late game Breastplate. I like this build a lot as it seems to cut thru most hero's like butter. I feel shieldbreaker + swarm is just overkill. Riftshards + Insantarious = massive dps. Just last night I was 15-0 with this build.

Why swarm at level 9?

[BigErn]

Why swarm at level 9?

Early everyone's armor is quite low already and impale + flight is enough to gank any hero without a problem. Being able to out move everyone on the map by level 8 is huge imo.

The last 5 or so games I've been using this build and have had more success with it personally.

[Newified]

If you think you can use Insanitarius well, get it -- it's a good core item for him, synergizing well with the -armor ultimate.

Getting Gore early on is not recommended -- maybe one level, that's all. You should not need it to 'last hit' if you have a Logger's Hatchet.

@King Azeo: 10% damage increase is nothing. If you're dealt ~300, which is what a nuke usually is at level 7, then you receive 330. Compared to what Flight gives you, this is negligible. The ability to chase and pin down *any* enemy hero is really underrated.

Pestilence is not meant to be a tank, nor an initiator. His role is to provide sight for easy ganking and initiation, along with big amounts of DPS over a small period of time in big fights. He's too squishy to be an initiator, and in my opinion building him as one is wrong. He has huge potential to be a DPS machine, and abusing that is probably your best bet in building him..

[archkyle]

there are so many suggestions on how to play pesti and many work in the right situations... but i would suggest, moving on to another hero... im really good with complex heroes and suck with the simple ones... who woulda thought? just play em all and find who suites you.

[Vodka]

Why would you ever skip your ult? It's an awesome damage amp for you AND your team even at level 1, prevents juking and invis, and can provide valuable intel. You're skipping it for 50 more damage on your stun, even though it does physical damage, and having someone swarmed and hitting them with a lvl 3 stun does more damage than hitting them with a lvl 4 stun without swarm and you can take them down faster with autoattacks afterwards too.

[`aNarchy]

Most Pesti guides are the same.

I like to get one level of stun and max my Flight and Bash for more early kills. Phase/Insanitarious/ShrunkenHead/Shieldbreaker/whatever else you can afford. I take Shieldbreaker last because you've already got an innate -armor skill and an early Insanitarious/ShrunkenHead combo is rape.

[King`Azeo]

Most Pesti guides are the same.

I like to get one level of stun and max my Flight and Bash for more early kills. Phase/Insanitarious/ShrunkenHead/Shieldbreaker/whatever else you can afford. I take Shieldbreaker last because you've already got an innate -armor skill and an early Insanitarious/ShrunkenHead combo is rape.

Why would you max Flight and Bash first instead of Flight and Stun? Your stun is your bread and butter skill, you should max it first..your ulti + your stun = really good damage since your stun is Physical Damage, so it get's stronger when the enemy has less armor.



@King Azeo: 10% damage increase is nothing. If you're dealt ~300, which is what a nuke usually is at level 7, then you receive 330. Compared to what Flight gives you, this is negligible. The ability to chase and pin down *any* enemy hero is really underrated.

^
THIS.

Ok, I have been testing Pestilence Builds again, and yeah, I now max Stun and Flight first before getting Gore. Sometimes though, I skip the last level of Flight and get 3 levels of gore at levels 9, 10 and 12, but yeah, most times I've been maxing Stun - Flight now, getting ulti whenever possible. It's been a while since i've played with my friends, and usually I've been playing pubs lately. Yeah, sometimes i'm in a good team, and sometimes i'm on a bad team, but from my experience of playing pubs(and at times I do join good pubs with skilled players), getting Stun - Flight seems more effective than Stun - Gore. So yeah..haha..peace..^^

My item build however remains the same. Enhanced Marchers, 2x Fortified Bracers and Shrunken Head for my core items. My luxury items depend on my enemy, whether I would need more DPS or more survivability.


Early everyone's armor is quite low already and impale + flight is enough to gank any hero without a problem. Being able to out move everyone on the map by level 8 is huge imo.

It is huge, yes. But, the ability to prevent your enemy from juking you, or from getting away via wind walk, plus, boosting the DPS of your entire team is even bigger. Everyone's armor is quite low early, yes, but that makes Swarm early even better. They have low armor, especially if they are Int heroes and certain Str heroes, why not make them even more squishy and easy to kill? Plus those Agi heroes who have somewhat high armor early will be even more squishy too; so what's not to love about Swarm?

[Tripwyr]

If you think you can use Insanitarius well, get it -- it's a good core item for him, synergizing well with the -armor ultimate.

Getting Gore early on is not recommended -- maybe one level, that's all. You should not need it to 'last hit' if you have a Logger's Hatchet.

@King Azeo: 10% damage increase is nothing. If you're dealt ~300, which is what a nuke usually is at level 7, then you receive 330. Compared to what Flight gives you, this is negligible. The ability to chase and pin down *any* enemy hero is really underrated.

Pestilence is not meant to be a tank, nor an initiator. His role is to provide sight for easy ganking and initiation, along with big amounts of DPS over a small period of time in big fights. He's too squishy to be an initiator, and in my opinion building him as one is wrong. He has huge potential to be a DPS machine, and abusing that is probably your best bet in building him..

This is largely incorrect. Most importantly, Pestilence is an initiator. While he has the potential to deal a lot of damage, his primary roll is an initiator/chase hero. This is why you get a Portal Key -> Shrunken Head on him.

The only reason to forgo a Portal Key is if your team has a much better initiator hero like Tempest, Hellbringer or Kraken. In this case, build your Shrunken Head then go straight for Shieldbreaker.

You should never build Pestilence as a glass cannon. By building him that way, you're wasting the potential of his stun. His stun's radius is larger than Legionnaires taunt, why would you initiate with taunt but not Impale? It doesn't make any sense.

Saying 10% damage is nothing doesn't make any sense either. If I could get 10% more damage on my attacks, I would take it in a heartbeat. For the same reason, I would try not to give that to my opponents. 10% damage makes a huge difference. How many times have you survived a chain of CC with 100 health, just to stun and run away? If you had popped flight right before that chain, you would have died every single time.

Do not take 10% damage lightly.

[PartyTrain]

Pestilence is not an initiator. He's semi-carry.

[Tripwyr]

I'm done arguing that Pestilence is an initiator. Many high-level players in several different places have said that Pestilence is an initiator and should get Portal Key. Many low-level players who have probably never seen the inside of a high-level game have said that Pestilence is not an initiator. Take from this what you will.

[King`Azeo]

I'm done arguing that Pestilence is an initiator. Many high-level players in several different places have said that Pestilence is an initiator and should get Portal Key. Many low-level players who have probably never seen the inside of a high-level game have said that Pestilence is not an initiator. Take from this what you will.

Chill out buddy. Pestilence IS a good initiator, ganker, and semi-carry. The only time you shouldn't Initiate with Pestilence is when there is a better initiator on your team like Tempest/Behemoth/Magmus. Other than a few, Pestilence is a good initiator.

[mintawno]

this pretty much explains why people fail with Pestilence

http://imgur.com/Omuyc.gif

[Conceptor]

I love playing as pestil. He's extremely an useful hero and he's versatile enough to fit many roles. Maxing out flight and stun with points in swarm is pretty much how I allocate level points, though depending on the other team I may stick one point in bash.
As far as items go, it depends on what kind of team we have and who we're facing. A pair of bracers and insanitarius are the two items I usually get but I find En Marchers fit nicely on him as well. His flight gives him awesome -ms but when its on CD, pestil is probably the slowest char on the map. BKB/Shrunken head works on him, and portal key too, if he's the only initiator on the team.

Stun Flight Bash Stun Flight Swarm Stun Flight Stun Flight Swarm Bash Bash etc

2 x runes 2 x mana pot 1 x pretender's crown
1 bracer, and depending on the game, EN-march/insanit/pk.
Everything else after is luxury, IMO.

[nvr]

haha, YEAH VERY HARD 2 PLAY PESTI! N1!

[LegoPirate]

Pestilence is not an initiator. He's semi-carry.

hes all of the above. hes versatile enough that he can be as hard a carry as you want, be a ganker, or an initiator, or some combonation of the 3

[binbo]

I think it's better to go max stun and gore 1st before taking a level in flight. Why? Because most of the time when you're in a decent team, or when you're in a competitive match, almost all of the team will have some form of stun/slow/disable; making flight pointless early as most of the time, when your team ganks, the enemy will be pinned down by your slows and disables anyway, and you'll just end up getting killed easier because of the bonus damage you take from flight.

Gore also helps in killing opponents by helping in pinning them down whenever it procs, plus you deal more damage..plus, gore can make for better last hits whenever it procs, and unlike back then, gore damage scales now like bash in DotA, unlike before where gore had a static bonus damage and higher levels just meant increased chance.
Gore does not make for better last hits, because it takes longer to do its damage than a normal hit. You will assume that you won't get Gore for safety's sake, and wait a bit too long. Gore procs, and you miss the kill.

Although in practice that doesn't happen much, I wanted to outline why Gore != easier last hitting.

[King`Azeo]

Gore does not make for better last hits, because it takes longer to do its damage than a normal hit. You will assume that you won't get Gore for safety's sake, and wait a bit too long. Gore procs, and you miss the kill.

Although in practice that doesn't happen much, I wanted to outline why Gore != easier last hitting.

I did say I go Stun - Flight now. Maybe you should read how my argument with them went 1st?

[Tripwyr]

One point in Gore for me is vital to my laning. Not for last hitting, but for harassment.

[ChunkyWill]

Your harass is probably going too well if you have time to take 20 pokes at them.

[Dominare]

I never pick up gore until 8-10 at the earliest, it isn't worth it. I don't get key either, because with phase boots and flight you're at 522 movespeed, you don't really need to be teleporting. Spending that 2k on part of a shrunken works better for me; people always want you dead since you're virtually impossible to flee from.

[Extreme_Cake]

Moving at 522 MS isn't likely to stop a good stunner or disabler from nailing you. Initiators need a blink, or they get stopped precisely because they're too dangerous. Nobody in their right mind will let you fly up and stun their team.

[Tripwyr]

Moving at 522 MS isn't likely to stop a good stunner or disabler from nailing you. Initiators need a blink, or they get stopped precisely because they're too dangerous. Nobody in their right mind will let you fly up and stun their team.

Precisely.


Your harass is probably going too well if you have time to take 20 pokes at them.

I play with a strong babysitter. I'm doing it wrong if I can't take the time to poke them.

[Sozmatron]

Moving at 522 MS isn't likely to stop a good stunner or disabler from nailing you. Initiators need a blink, or they get stopped precisely because they're too dangerous. Nobody in their right mind will let you fly up and stun their team.
If you approach from a good angle and control LOS properly then they don't have a choice.

[Utred]

If you approach from a good angle and control LOS properly then they don't have a choice.
A stunner with good reflexes will still **** you up though. You'll get killed before your team can do anything probably. If you are the only hero who can initiate on your team you should really ge ta portal key.

[Tripwyr]

What angle you approach from has no effect, unless they're dumb enough to stand at the very bottom of a hill waiting for you.

[Dominare]

Moving at 522 MS isn't likely to stop a good stunner or disabler from nailing you.

That's what the second half of my post was for. Sure, you can spend 2150 on a key, but if you just wait a bit longer for 3700 to grab shrunken head, they can't stun you - even if you're down to only 5 seconds of magic immunity, 522 movespeed + unitwalking means you're going to get the stun off exactly where you want it almost every time.

Having said that, I'm going to break with HoN tradition and actually admit that my opinion is not law - if key works for you then great, I just think shrunken head is a more useful item for pest for the above reason.