Stats vs Skills

[Pogona]

I'm a bit confused about the use of level points to build stats in this game. When and why is it better to put points into stats vs skills, and what do you base that decision on? There are lots of items that boost stats, so is it possible to get away with never putting skill points into stats at all?

thanks in advance for the help.

[Elmoman]

In short: Do NOT put points to stats, untill you must (at level 15 and from level 17 onwards.)
You get the same amount of stats for 185 gold. Which is more usefull, 185 gold or a new skill?

[Caeth]

With some heroes though, which have skills that is kinda useless in early game u should consider picking stats instead of skills.

[Damage]

Stats are often viable over certain skills depending on specifically how you play your hero.

For example, a lot of competitive players get stats at levels 2 and 4 on Arachna. It gives a bigger damage boost than your aura at the lower levels, as well as gives HP, armor and attack speed.

Or chronos who has 2 passives that aren't effective until late game...

[deathdawn]

Another example would be legionnaire; You get his whirl/taunt/decapitating but you don't touch terrify until lvl 21-25 because it simply is a bad skill.

[ShadowsCrush]

Another example would be legionnaire; You get his whirl/taunt/decapitating but you don't touch terrify until lvl 21-25 because it simply is a bad skill.

Not true, it's just situational.

It can be a tremendous harass technique if you can totally out last hit/deny the enemy to the point where the DoT is stuck on them for the entire situation.

It is also useful to harass an enemy who is playing very cautious and not coming in at all, it will force them to come in to try and last hit/deny at which point you punish them for having to do so.


I'm a bit confused about the use of level points to build stats in this game. When and why is it better to put points into stats vs skills, and what do you base that decision on? There are lots of items that boost stats, so is it possible to get away with never putting skill points into stats at all?

thanks in advance for the help.



Also, to truely answer the OP, there are times when stats are more beneficial than picking a skill.

For example, take arachna, where, early on, it is often more beneficial to get stats instead of her damage aura. Since it is a percentage based aura, and your damage is very low early game, by getting stats you gain survivability through added hp/mp, plus additional regen, AND added damage, and then you can add the damage aura later once you have a decent base damage.

You also might not want the damage aura early game because it makes your creep mage line hit harder, making your creep wave push harder, and putting you in a bad position (close to their tower / fighting uphill increasing your miss chance, getting your vision butchered by fog of war)

And yet another note, since it IS an aura, and Arach is a fairly common solo, your aura is of no benefit to your team when you are solo lane, so until you are prepared to start ganking/team fighting, the aura is unnecessary.

[J0k3]

As people mentioned before me, sometimes stats is way more usefull than picking a skill early on.
For example, if you play Hammerstorm I would advice you to put points into Stun/stats. Why? Because then you will have more mana to use your stun with, and the cleave-attack is quite useless while your damage is so low.

Same thing with behemoth. Ofcourse you should put points in those skills eventually, when you can afford to make up for the lack of Hp/mana/dmg with items instead.

[Puchi]

With most heroes you should get you "skills" first but in some cases like Behemoth you should start puting in stats after maxin Fissure and heavywight, 2 skills in ulti and 1 in enrage, then ulti agian at 16 and then max stats.

[Blaat]

Most passives that give +dmg/+crit for example are more useful lategame. Getting stats in exchange for them early game is more useful

[Funnnny]

Anyone see Rhasta with Lighting and Stats.
That from WCG'09 VN ( and yes it's dota ).
Putting stats is a good choice, but not all of the time.

[ShadowsCrush]

Another strong example is Moon Queen.

Basically, getting her damage aura early is one of the worst decisions you can make.
It offers very little dps that stats wouldn't equal or beat early game.

And stats are crucial for MQ to be able to have the mana to support her ult/beam multiple times in a standard fight.

[Nzzdlz]

Clearly, very hero depending.
Moonqueen is perfect exemple
A good player would do : Lucent bean (DD), stats, DD, stats, DD, Ulti, DD, other spells
Cause too low hp at the begining

[vy`Ze]

Stats is needed to hero with late abils

[dabn]

In short: Do NOT put points to stats, untill you must (at level 15 and from level 17 onwards.)
You get the same amount of stats for 185 gold. Which is more usefull, 185 gold or a new skill?
noob way of thinking^.
don't listen to him. :rolleyes:

[_PINK]

Behemoth players as well are split between taking stats and Enrage/Heavyweight at the beginning of the game.

[Tripwyr]

Or chronos who has 2 passives that aren't effective until late game...

I lol'd at this.

I usually get stats on Andromeda, Arachna, and Hammerstorm. All three of these heroes have only one useful skill early game, so you get stats so that you can survive and use it more often.

[TreeHorse]

I lol'd at this.

I usually get stats on Andromeda, Arachna, and Hammerstorm. All three of these heroes have only one useful skill early game, so you get stats so that you can survive and use it more often.

Very good points.

I've gotten early stats on Swiftblade and Magmus also. It really just depends on who you are laning against and what role you need to fill for the team. Swift doesn't benefit too much from having counterattack early, so I replace it with stats. Same thing goes for Mag's steambath or even occasionally Volcanic Touch if you are employing a turtling strategy.

[Pogona]

Thanks, this has been helpful. So if i understand, you should weigh the usefulness of your skills in terms of what stage in the game they will become useful, if at all. So arachna or moon queen might need more stats to boost hp as opposed to their skills. I know these two are what are called "carry" heroes, which become most powerful late game...so are stats useful for building a hero who is strong in late game?

[_PINK]

I lol'd at this.

I usually get stats on Andromeda, Arachna, and Hammerstorm. All three of these heroes have only one useful skill early game, so you get stats so that you can survive and use it more often.

Andromeda has two. Aurora isn't terribly useful at level 2, but it does a lot for the 40 mana cost when it's maxed.

[ShadowsCrush]

Thanks, this has been helpful. So if i understand, you should weigh the usefulness of your skills in terms of what stage in the game they will become useful, if at all. So arachna or moon queen might need more stats to boost hp as opposed to their skills. I know these two are what are called "carry" heroes, which become most powerful late game...so are stats useful for building a hero who is strong in late game?

Wrong way to think of it, since late game is usually considered the 16+ range of most heroes.

Stats are useful for maximizing your heroes's survivability vs. utility in the stages where you cannot have items at your disposal to make up for those shortcomings.

stats for heroes with a main disable that lack the mana to support it
stats for heroes who have several passives based on percentages
stats for heroes with multiple castables, but one or more than can be left at level 1 for a while (i.e. succubus with mesmerize)

there's more specific ways to get into it, but it's really about experience
there's not always a hard and fast rule about when and what levels to get them
it comes down to how well you are farming, if you're being out harassed or out last hit/denied
its different for every game, its one of those things you just gotta feel it out

[Elmoman]

Consider also this:
If your hero has skills, that are only usefull at late game, picking stats early on will delay the time when you get access those skills mid-lategame. If for example you pick stats instead of damage aura at early game for andromeda, then that means you will get access for that damage aura later. While stats help during those 2-3 early levels, they also hinder your hero during levels 8...10. At levels 2-3 those stats might be more usefull, but at levels 8-10 those skills you COULD have picked would be more usefull.

So, in short, take skills.
However, at certain games and situations stats might have a place. But in short, get skills.
KISS*
*=Keep It Simple, Stupid

[Khaos`]

Many skills also do not level very well.

Hammerstorm's Galvanize, for example, gives the same movement speed bonus at every level, so there's really no point in leveling it past level 1.

[pLoLock]

Andromeda has two. Aurora isn't terribly useful at level 2, but it does a lot for the 40 mana cost when it's maxed.

Andromeda = Stun + Increased damage = Your laning partner is happy soul

[Emppu]

TESTING >. <

[Madlobster]

The only heroes i ever get stats with are hammerstorm and Swiftblade

[dune]

Hammerstorm
Swiftblade
Succubus
Andromeda

Off the top of my head all of those four benefit grealy from stats.

[Droggeltasse]

So, in short, take skills.
However, at certain games and situations stats might have a place. But in short, get skills.
KISS*
*=Keep It Simple, Stupid

I have to agree to this in some way. If you have no idea what is good for the hero take skills, if you have a better view of the situation you can decide more situational and than often stats are better.
Some examples:
Its no problem for example to take your aura on arachna early, even when stats are better its a minor difference.
But now we look at andromedas aura. If you are in a side lane you want to keep the lane close to your tower. If you now skill your aura your creeps will become stronger and your lane will be pushed to their tower. This makes it harder to kill your enemys and will make it easier for them to kill you.
Same goes for magmus volcanic touch. If you use it it pushes your lane, but on the other hand it can damage enemy melee hereos who try to last hit and deny.
You have too look at the situations you are playing in and you have to decide wich skill would be the best early but when you have no idea just pick a skill.

In most cases a higher crit chance or some passive is not that great of a disadvantage if you skill it instead of stats but missing important skills can hurt your team realy bad.

[cute]

It can be a tremendous harass technique if you can totally out last hit/deny the enemy to the point where the DoT is stuck on them for the entire situation.

Fun fact:
anything works vs bad players

[HEADHUNTERR]

a good example is also Hammerstorm..
Hammerstun
stats
Hammerstun
hammerstun
stats

why ..? because ur passive splash isnt that usefull in the begin of the game cuz of the low damage you already have.

[Volshok]

Fun fact:
anything works vs bad players

To be fair, terrify can be useful for disabling Portal Key.

[ShadowsCrush]

well to be fair, if they get hit with terror then they are kinda going about the whole blink buttrape surprise tactic all wrong lol

seeing as the objective is to blink in from out of sight most of the time
prevents blink escape at least

[cute]

well to be fair, if they get hit with terror then they are kinda going about the whole blink buttrape surprise tactic all wrong lol

seeing as the objective is to blink in from out of sight most of the time
prevents blink escape at least
"if you can totally out last hit/deny the enemy to the point where the DoT is stuck on them for the entire situation."
better read as: if you are absolutely dominating them in lane and theres a huge skill gap

[dune]

"if you can totally out last hit/deny the enemy to the point where the DoT is stuck on them for the entire situation."
better read as: if you are absolutely dominating them in lane and theres a huge skill gap

This exactly.

If you are dominating them that hard, then you should be getting free kills from them using Taunt, Spin and Execute.