china
08-02-2011, 08:15 PM
A cute list of all the things I've started as threads for suggestions in regards to balance and gameplay for S2.
They were posted in a private forum, but incontrovertibly they're my opinions. I don't see the issue in leaking my opinions. :3
So here's my ideas, old and new (ish).
(P.S. You probably remember a few of these being put in.
P.P.S. I broke Wildsoul a year ago, and it took that long to become apparent!)
05-16-2010
balphagore
demonic pathogen
rescale silence from 1.0/1.5/2.0/2.5 seconds to 1.0/2.0/3.0/4.0 seconds
rescale damage from 100 magic dps to 60 magic dps
corpse conversion
rescale bounty from 40 gold to 20 gold
add magic resistance to minions
reduce cd from 30 to 20
bloodhunter
blood crazy
rescale cd from 10 seconds to 12/10/8/6
rescale duration from 6/9/12/15 to 6/7/8/9
rescale dot from 20/15/10/5 to 20 at all levels
blood sense
grant full vision of low hp targets
deadwood
rotten grasp
decrease cast time on root from 2.0 seconds to 1.6 seconds
uproot
rescale mana cost from 60 to 30
rescale charges from 5/6/7/8 to 5 at all levels
willowmaker
when activated, uses all charges of uproot as additional -% str modifier
i.e. 4 charges are left on a level 4 uproot, so 16% (4% * 4) more overall str is lost.
devourer
armor from 1.96 to 2.96
decay
on activation, removes vindicator's curse
on activation, no longer resets attack animation
electrician
static grip
pulls target to self, rather than self to target
engineer
base str from 22 to 20
base int from 19 to 21
hellbringer
str growth from 2.5 to 2.1
agi growth from 1.0 to 1.2
int growth from 2.7 to 2.9
legionnaire
armor from 1.8 to 2.8
nymphora
grace of the nymph
dispels only from player-controlled unit damage
teleport
no longer displays graphic/sfx to enemies when in fog
pandamonium
cannonball
snares self instead of stuns self
pebbles
slabskin
change to craggy exterior (stun attackers)
pollywog priest
voodoo wards
rescaled cd from 110/95/80 seconds to 100 seconds at all levels
slither
toxin wards
rescaled ms reducer from 10% to -25 at all levels
abyssal skull
+2 health regeneration
harkon's
no longer stacks with lifeleech & other attack modifiers
nome's wisdom
recipe cost from 600 to 200 (this is looking at the patch notes. It's simply not worth buying at the cost, and i think reducing the cost will do it good)
puzzlebox
recipe cost from 1000 to 1250
other note..
fix trees dying in fog. Ruins axe jukes, trap set-ups on devo, deadwood's clearcutting, etc.
06-01-2010
things that didn't go through due to one reason or another from the last thread. Note, puzzlebox was nerfed from 1k to 1100, but i believe it should be further nerfed from 1100 to 1250, illustrated lower.
This is a compilation of little things, some larger than little, that i think could be done to the game. This time i'm focusing particularly on sw/wildsoul. There's a lot of reasoning behind this, but i haven't illustrated it, since i'm anxious to see the speculation of other players.
bloodhunter
blood crazy
rescale cd from 10 seconds to 12/10/8/6
rescale duration from 6/9/12/15 to 6/7/8/9
rescale dot from 20/15/10/5 to 20 at all levels
deadwood
rotten grasp
decrease cast time on root from 2.0 seconds to 1.6 seconds
willowmaker
when activated, uses all charges of uproot as additional -% str modifier
i.e. 4 charges are left on a level 4 uproot, so 16% (4% * 4) more overall str is lost.
devourer
decay
on activation, removes vindicator's curse
on activation, no longer resets attack animation
electrician
static grip
pulls target to self, rather than self to target
pebbles
slabskin
change to craggy exterior (stun attackers)
pollywog priest
voodoo wards
rescaled cd from 110/95/80 seconds to 100 seconds at all levels
abyssal skull
+2 health regeneration
puzzlebox
recipe cost from 1000 to 1250
engineer
tinker
cd from 15 seconds to 20 seconds
forsaken archer
skeletons
no longer trigger neutral abilities (minotaur stomp, etc.)
hellbringer
armor from 2.4 to 1.4
life void
cd from 7 seconds to 10 seconds
maliken
possession
mana cost from 150 mana to 100 mana
pandamonium
cannonball
snare from 4 seconds to 2 seconds
sandwraith
desert's curse
units initially hit by the dagger's flight path will create 'trails' as well as the targeted unit.
mirage
illusions no longer dispel from activating 'manifest', and instead live out their duration or until death.
succubus
mesmerize
still somehow transfers to ai creeps that attempt to attack the affected unit.
succubus' hold
cd from 120 at all levels to 120/100/80
voodoo jester
acid cocktail
bounces now deal 50 hero damage each
wildsoul
summon beardulon
increase beardulon's base damage from 28-38 to 30-40
attain return @ level 1
attain entangling claws @ level 2
attain demolish @ level 3
attain magic resist @ level 4
current 'attain @ level' here (http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroview.php?hid=30)
wild
remove cast time
bear form
remove ms reduction when using bear form
alchemist bones
usable on allied creeps
hellflower
damage from 40 to 45 (sum of parts)
insanitarius
cooldown from 10 seconds to 5 seconds
nullfire blade
when upgraded, charges are cumulative
puzzlebox
recipe cost from 1100 to 1250
stormspirit
remove perplex state
6-14-2010
for all players
debuff/buff indicators need to display a number (instead of having to hover over it to see how much longer your invis or haste is going to last)
drawing on the minimap
tournament mode
allow a single user to initiate a pause
bp
an actual captain that picks everything
allow players to mute observer chat/hellbourne/legion
allow players to turn off the the big red text that appears from combo killing
custom list of recommended items for each hero (allows for more efficient buying)
healthbars on creeps (they overlap and you can't see the healthbar of a creep underneath, which makes it bothersome to check the hp)
for observers/referees
voip
pinging
for replays
a list which displays the timestamps of all fights/deaths 15 seconds prior (make it clickable so it brings you to the general area of the fight as well as the actual event in time)
a list of all item pick ups with timestamps
thoughts/additions?
01-31-2011
there are a couple of things that i've thought about when in regards to the game's depth. As there is a lot that goes into picking heroes, counterpicking, warding, counterwarding, ganking, positioning, etc., there seems to be a lack in other things. Here's a thread listing a number of my concerns/desires, and i hope they mirror the feelings of others or can, at the very least, be related to.
a deterrent to mass tping
introduction of 500 - 2k range items for the early mid game
introduction of new neutrals, neutral mechanics/behavior
the game will always be a five versus five, and the introduction of new heroes, and the balancing of current ones can only go so far in increasing the complexity of the game. By altering the environment and the tools available to those ten players, you can effectively increase the depth of the game, and the choices available to the players.
Concerning the 'problem', as seen by some if not most, of mass tp'ing, there are a number of paths to be taken, similar and different to icefrog's own mechanic. 'staggered' tps seems to honestly be the best way to go about it, yet surely there's another way to deter the defensive/reactive behavior that tps encourage.
Low cost items keep the early/mid game fresh and grant more choices to support heroes with limited income.
In regards to the introduction of new neutrals (preferably ones that are not as punishing as catmen, but with their own separate difficulties) the strength of running a jungler can be increased without adding any arbitrary mechanics or adjusting the strength of particular heroes. By merely having an additional camp to roll for in the mediums, legionnaire can have a far easier time early on instead of being screwed by catmen stacks or wolf + mino stacks. There's also the usefulness of a dominated creep (ophelia/hotd)
a creep that summons minions
a creep that has a damage debuff
increasing the cast range of purge on the small creep, and deactivating the ai that automatically uses it
any concerns/interests you may have, in regards to expanding the depth of the game outside of the pick screen?
02-03-2011
i remember this being mentioned a long time ago, as previously, i queried as to when the ability to draw on your minimap would be reenabled. There was a thread populated with certain restrictions/restraints, such as time limitations, draw limitations, etc. To prevent abuse.
Curious about the progress, as pinging a stream of points and playing connect-the-dots can be pretty tedious. I think this would be another facet that could enhance play.
(itt - guy who wants to draw penises on the minimap. Real talk tho, it would help in strategizing as well as charting the path of a potential gank.)
02-10-2011
i think we can all agree that sacrificial stone is a terrible item. I think we all know why. It's a snowball item, that gets stronger as its user nets kills/assists - what it grants is subpar to its large cost, but is the only item that increases in value as the game progresses positively for its user. It's also the item that loses nearly all its worth when you die.
Even on the heroes that can benefit the most from it (see doctor repulsor), the gold is typically better spent on a bkb or early sheepstick. Why? Because the utility is far stronger than the benefit reaped from sacrificial stone. For heroes who don't really rely on mana earned outside of stat increases or bottle/chalice (not doctor repulsor/torturer), such as defiler/soul reaper, a behemoth's heart would be far better, as it provides nearly 1000 hp.
Additional items such as frostfield plate also provide stronger alternatives to sacrificial stone. The item needs to receive an overhaul in concept, imo.
sacrificial stone
5050 gold
10 damage
6 health regeneration
100(?)% mana regeneration
+450 hp
+400 mp
+25 health points per charge
+.25 health regeneration per charge
+1 mana regeneration per charge
Survival Alternatives
Behemoth's Heart
5500 gold
+35 Strength
+300 Health Points
+(?)% Health Regeneration
Vanguard
2225 gold
+6 Health Regeneration
+300 Health Points
+Damage Block
Shrunken Head
3900 gold
+24 Damage
+10 Strength
+Magic Immunity
Mana Alternatives
Kuldra's Sheepstick
5675
+10 Agility
+10 Strength
+35 Intelligence
+200% Mana Regeneration
Stormspirit
2800
+10 Intelligence
+150% Mana Regeneration
+25 MS
there are additional items to choose from, of course, but i decided to list only the obvious choices.
There are a number of things i think could be done to sacrificial stone, in an effort to make it a strong item choice. First is to remove the 'charge' mechanic of sacrificial stone, as it is a poor mechanic (similar to dampeer's, imo).
on use, user regains +4% hp/mp for 15 seconds. Dispels when struck. (similar to health potion)
passive 2.5% hp/mp regeneration. (only regenerates when the hero has not taken player-controlled damage within the past 5 seconds)
i'm sure there are other things you can think of. Feel free to agree/disagree.
02-11-2011
what do you guys think about averaging the values? So instead of say 30-50, a creep will always give 40. Instead of a possible 70-100, it will always give 85. Etc.
I was thinking about this because of the resources earned in other games - gold/minerals in wc/sc. Why should it be random at all? I think this is more true for the dragons in hon/dota, which could pop a crap load. I think it is the same for kongor/rosh as well.
I believe averaging the values would be a good move.
02-16-2011
essentially, i find it potentially beneficial for s2 to integrate clan functionality found at http://clans.heroesofnewerth.com/, into the in-game ui.
Things like the clan page should be accessible within the ui. I'd venture to say, most players don't actively use the forums unless it's to post a complaint, and the clan page really isn't accessible at all (there's no button at the top of the forums). Some of the things to be featured here would be:
participation in tournaments
placement in past tournaments
clan members
clan activity
clan matches/scrimmages
recruitment notices
news section
players should also be able to modify their own in-game profiles to include what kind of roles they prefer (support/carry/solo/ganker/initiator & all-rounder), contact information, and a small 300-character box for them to place whatever they'd like (similar to wc3 in-game profiles).
There should also be a second function similar to the player ladder, except it populates a list of clans lf players, and another section that populates a list of players lf clans. It should also feature some buttons to categorize players/clans (psr/mmr/kd/wards/etc.)
thirdly, there should be a 'lf scrimmage' list with preferred servers and skill level that allows players/teams to launch a query or respond to a search. Answers would ping the user and pop a box like a friend request or match invite.
Lastly, a rematch function at the end of tmm/regular games that if agreed upon by all players, restarts the game in the same mode and at the pick screen.
There are also a number of observer/spectator suggestions i placed before that would increase entertainment and utility.
03-01-2011
thoughts on altering bp so all picks are done by the captain (blue/pink)?
I'd like this very much so as it relegates the final decision to the selected player (be it by mm or by an organized team). It sports numerous pros and cons, but i fully believe the pros outweigh the cons, in both the public and competitive setting. Albeit, it should have no effect on the competitive setting (outside of dodging afk & d/c'd teammates which are obvious pros. Though the captain d/c'ing can be a greater worry.)
03-01-2011
there are things that separate hon and dota, outside of the activity in each competitive scene, the players that praise and condemn the other, etc. I think we can all agree that there is a missing depth in hon compared to dota. There's a reason for this.
I feel as if, design-wise, we (hon) has been developing heroes to succeed at a certain role, and to fit a certain cut, and in doing so we create one-dimension heroes. Cutting straight to the core here, heroes must be created based around new skills, that are innovative and different. Skills that do not stun for x seconds in a y aoe for z damage. Seeing myrmidon, we essentially created a hero that mirrors the role of another hero, with slight differences. He fits in a trilane, but has reach that other trilane supports lack, as well as strong burst capability that others may lack. He is also packaged along with your simple stuns and whatnot, and can serve as a strong ganker.
Heroes must be designed around their skills, and their skills must be made in an effort to increase the depth of the game.
See:
furion (to some extent, nymphora)
broodmother
earthshaker (behemoth)
puck (bubbles)
pugna
storm spirit (doctor repulsor)
clockwork (pharaoh)
nevermore (soulstealer)
to some extent, each hero offers something unique which can be 'replaced', but not fully mimicked by another hero. You can't simply swap out chipper for soulstealer, or flint for dr. Another hero cannot replace the fear es puts into players. Puck and pharaoh fulfill similar roles with entirely different skillsets.
Heroes should be made around different skills, skills that are unique and innovative. By doing this we increase depth, add new fears and worries, new weaknesses and strengths. New lineups oriented around how these skills interact with one another outside of merely stacking stuns or high burst damage.
The goal should be for each hero to incite a different kind of fear in players. Furion/nymph with global teleport (furion also with pushing power, his ultimate), es/behe with their unique blocking capabilities, nevermore/ss with his three nuke/snowball, storm spirit/dr with his mobility.
One hero should never completely overshadow another. (in dota, windrunner made potm basically extinct. Similarly, but to a lesser extent, myrmidon overshadows other tri-lane supports.)
the more different something is, the more dynamic and the more exciting the game becomes.
+1, except the comment about myrmidon overshadowing other trilane heroes
gogo design team!
03-01-2011
i've culled a lot of the stuff i originally placed, and kept most of the incontrovertible.
Still here are the fayde alterations - as i think they are necessary into making her a hero worth picking. Note, i intentionally made her melee stun powerful as currently there is zero reason to ever not use her line stun over her pbaoe stun. Static % based mana burn without the reductions from before, and a rescaling on mana cost so that her pbaoe spell becomes more 'appealing' than the line one - as the line-based spell is currently irrefutably better. Again, i lowered her str growth as her passive was buffed to be a stronger choice than stats (stats is currently better lul).
Note also, it will be helpful if other players could comment on the suggestions of others so i can at least glean some loose knowledge on what may or may not need addressing.
Please focus discussion on all the additions - but if there is a 'glaring' issue with the 'previous changes' (as you may find it imbalanced, or extremely unnecessary), please state your case. everything is open to change. I only separated the changes so they're easier to identify.
Things i believe need to be addressed
engineer
dampeer's essence mechanic (i believe his skills should be normalized, as if he had two essences or 1.5)
what i desire from you guys (competitors)
feedback
additional suggestions (buffs/debuffs)
approval/disapproval
last note - this is merely a list of suggestions. Everything is ultimately filtered/approved by s2, and this thread should be a focus point where we can pool our efforts together.
new additions
miscellaneous changes
gold earned from creeps/ancients/neutrals/kongor averaged.
hero changes
:legi:legionnaire
terrifying charge
now gives 100% slow resistance
:tort:torturer
chain reaction
cast point from 500 ms to 575 ms.
:succ:succubus
range from 500 to 400
heartache
cast point buffed
mesmerize
cast point buffed
item changes
:harkonsblade:harkon's blade
no longer changes projectile
doesn't nerf projectile speeds of ranged heroes anymore, doesn't delay melee attacks anymore.
:stormspirit:stormspirit
now no effecttype on enemy units.
fixes pebbles' cyclone visual bug where he appears to still be cycloned but is actually not. **even if it is a statusdebuff, it cannot be purged unless the purge ignores invulnerability.
[I]some changes courtesy of elementuser
previous changes
miscellaneous changes
courier
when delivering items to a user, their items are prioritized first - followed by any wards/shareables
illusions
no longer inherit orbs outside of mana burn (nullfire blade)
hero changes
:bloo:bloodhunter
hemorrhage
altered so that skills like valk's leap/kraken's charge cause damage
:dark:the dark lady
taint soul
changed mana cost from 35/45/55/65 to static 35
:deme:demented shaman
unbreakable
changed mana cost from 85 to 135
changed cool down from 15 seconds to 18 seconds
:fayd:fayde
decreased str growth from 2.0 to 1.6
cull/burning shadows
rescaled mana burn from 6/12/18/24% to 20% at all levels
removed - if multiple heroes are hit, the mana destruction is split, reducing the burn by 1 / 2 / 3 / 4% per hero
cull
rescaled mana cost from 100/110/120/130 to 80/95/110/125
burning shadows
rescaled mana cost from 85/105/125/145 to 100/115/130/145
scythe stance
charges from 1/2/3/4 to 1/3/5/7
:gaun:gauntlet
grapple
slightly increased touch radius
:legi:legionnaire
taunt
reduced cast time
whirling blade
tower attacks may now cause legionnaire to spin
:mali:maliken
sword throw
removed healing cap of 300
:myrm:myrmidon
decreased int growth from 3.2 to 2.9
weed field
rescaled cooldown from 10 seconds at all levels to 16/15/14/13 seconds
wave form
reduced cast range from 1000 to 700/800/900/1000
:nigh:nighthound
invisibility
may now be turned on/off (this enables him to creep pull/stack)
:phar:pharaoh
mummy walls
altered so that skills like kraken's charge/myrmidon's charge cannot escape when trapped
:plag:plague rider
extinguish
rescaled cool down from 55/50/45/40 seconds to 40 seconds at all levels
:pred:predator
venomous leap
changed cooldown from 20/17/14/11 seconds to 16/14/12/10 seconds.
:sand:sandwraith
desert's curse
rescaled movement slow from 5/9/14/18% to 8/12/16/20%
dissipate
reworked
rescaled damage reduction from 4/8/12/16% to 10/14/18/22%
damage is only reflected to the damage dealer, and not in an aoe
mirage
increased damage received by illusions from 200% to 250%
:scou:scout
vanish
no longer loses 'flurry' when invisibility is manually disabled
electric eye
silence no longer pierces magic immunity
:swif:swiftblade
blade frenzy
q may be pressed again to halt spinning
attacks made while spinning cannot crit
attacks made while spinning do not apply attack modifiers
:tort:torturer
chain reaction
rescaled stun duration from 2 seconds at all levels to 1.25/1.5/1.75/2.0 seconds
torment
can only be turned off manually or from a lack of mana
silence no longer turns it off
:tund:tundra
call of winter
fixed so that shiver properly receives damage from all hostile spells
currently, certain spells do not hit the bird
item changes
:assassinshroud:assassin's shroud
increased stealth bonus movement speed from 20% to 25%
:geometersbane:geometer's bane
decreased recipe cost from 1200 to 800
:slash:firebrand
can now be built with a soulscream ring + quickblade (may still be built with fleetfeet + quickblade)
:hack:icebrand
can now be built with a fortified bracelet + mighty blade (may still be built with bolstering armband + mighty blade)
:puzzlebox:puzzlebox
the wizard is now the first tabbed unit
i.e. You have your hero and the two minions highlighted. Tabbing once will bring you to the wizard
They were posted in a private forum, but incontrovertibly they're my opinions. I don't see the issue in leaking my opinions. :3
So here's my ideas, old and new (ish).
(P.S. You probably remember a few of these being put in.
P.P.S. I broke Wildsoul a year ago, and it took that long to become apparent!)
05-16-2010
balphagore
demonic pathogen
rescale silence from 1.0/1.5/2.0/2.5 seconds to 1.0/2.0/3.0/4.0 seconds
rescale damage from 100 magic dps to 60 magic dps
corpse conversion
rescale bounty from 40 gold to 20 gold
add magic resistance to minions
reduce cd from 30 to 20
bloodhunter
blood crazy
rescale cd from 10 seconds to 12/10/8/6
rescale duration from 6/9/12/15 to 6/7/8/9
rescale dot from 20/15/10/5 to 20 at all levels
blood sense
grant full vision of low hp targets
deadwood
rotten grasp
decrease cast time on root from 2.0 seconds to 1.6 seconds
uproot
rescale mana cost from 60 to 30
rescale charges from 5/6/7/8 to 5 at all levels
willowmaker
when activated, uses all charges of uproot as additional -% str modifier
i.e. 4 charges are left on a level 4 uproot, so 16% (4% * 4) more overall str is lost.
devourer
armor from 1.96 to 2.96
decay
on activation, removes vindicator's curse
on activation, no longer resets attack animation
electrician
static grip
pulls target to self, rather than self to target
engineer
base str from 22 to 20
base int from 19 to 21
hellbringer
str growth from 2.5 to 2.1
agi growth from 1.0 to 1.2
int growth from 2.7 to 2.9
legionnaire
armor from 1.8 to 2.8
nymphora
grace of the nymph
dispels only from player-controlled unit damage
teleport
no longer displays graphic/sfx to enemies when in fog
pandamonium
cannonball
snares self instead of stuns self
pebbles
slabskin
change to craggy exterior (stun attackers)
pollywog priest
voodoo wards
rescaled cd from 110/95/80 seconds to 100 seconds at all levels
slither
toxin wards
rescaled ms reducer from 10% to -25 at all levels
abyssal skull
+2 health regeneration
harkon's
no longer stacks with lifeleech & other attack modifiers
nome's wisdom
recipe cost from 600 to 200 (this is looking at the patch notes. It's simply not worth buying at the cost, and i think reducing the cost will do it good)
puzzlebox
recipe cost from 1000 to 1250
other note..
fix trees dying in fog. Ruins axe jukes, trap set-ups on devo, deadwood's clearcutting, etc.
06-01-2010
things that didn't go through due to one reason or another from the last thread. Note, puzzlebox was nerfed from 1k to 1100, but i believe it should be further nerfed from 1100 to 1250, illustrated lower.
This is a compilation of little things, some larger than little, that i think could be done to the game. This time i'm focusing particularly on sw/wildsoul. There's a lot of reasoning behind this, but i haven't illustrated it, since i'm anxious to see the speculation of other players.
bloodhunter
blood crazy
rescale cd from 10 seconds to 12/10/8/6
rescale duration from 6/9/12/15 to 6/7/8/9
rescale dot from 20/15/10/5 to 20 at all levels
deadwood
rotten grasp
decrease cast time on root from 2.0 seconds to 1.6 seconds
willowmaker
when activated, uses all charges of uproot as additional -% str modifier
i.e. 4 charges are left on a level 4 uproot, so 16% (4% * 4) more overall str is lost.
devourer
decay
on activation, removes vindicator's curse
on activation, no longer resets attack animation
electrician
static grip
pulls target to self, rather than self to target
pebbles
slabskin
change to craggy exterior (stun attackers)
pollywog priest
voodoo wards
rescaled cd from 110/95/80 seconds to 100 seconds at all levels
abyssal skull
+2 health regeneration
puzzlebox
recipe cost from 1000 to 1250
engineer
tinker
cd from 15 seconds to 20 seconds
forsaken archer
skeletons
no longer trigger neutral abilities (minotaur stomp, etc.)
hellbringer
armor from 2.4 to 1.4
life void
cd from 7 seconds to 10 seconds
maliken
possession
mana cost from 150 mana to 100 mana
pandamonium
cannonball
snare from 4 seconds to 2 seconds
sandwraith
desert's curse
units initially hit by the dagger's flight path will create 'trails' as well as the targeted unit.
mirage
illusions no longer dispel from activating 'manifest', and instead live out their duration or until death.
succubus
mesmerize
still somehow transfers to ai creeps that attempt to attack the affected unit.
succubus' hold
cd from 120 at all levels to 120/100/80
voodoo jester
acid cocktail
bounces now deal 50 hero damage each
wildsoul
summon beardulon
increase beardulon's base damage from 28-38 to 30-40
attain return @ level 1
attain entangling claws @ level 2
attain demolish @ level 3
attain magic resist @ level 4
current 'attain @ level' here (http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroview.php?hid=30)
wild
remove cast time
bear form
remove ms reduction when using bear form
alchemist bones
usable on allied creeps
hellflower
damage from 40 to 45 (sum of parts)
insanitarius
cooldown from 10 seconds to 5 seconds
nullfire blade
when upgraded, charges are cumulative
puzzlebox
recipe cost from 1100 to 1250
stormspirit
remove perplex state
6-14-2010
for all players
debuff/buff indicators need to display a number (instead of having to hover over it to see how much longer your invis or haste is going to last)
drawing on the minimap
tournament mode
allow a single user to initiate a pause
bp
an actual captain that picks everything
allow players to mute observer chat/hellbourne/legion
allow players to turn off the the big red text that appears from combo killing
custom list of recommended items for each hero (allows for more efficient buying)
healthbars on creeps (they overlap and you can't see the healthbar of a creep underneath, which makes it bothersome to check the hp)
for observers/referees
voip
pinging
for replays
a list which displays the timestamps of all fights/deaths 15 seconds prior (make it clickable so it brings you to the general area of the fight as well as the actual event in time)
a list of all item pick ups with timestamps
thoughts/additions?
01-31-2011
there are a couple of things that i've thought about when in regards to the game's depth. As there is a lot that goes into picking heroes, counterpicking, warding, counterwarding, ganking, positioning, etc., there seems to be a lack in other things. Here's a thread listing a number of my concerns/desires, and i hope they mirror the feelings of others or can, at the very least, be related to.
a deterrent to mass tping
introduction of 500 - 2k range items for the early mid game
introduction of new neutrals, neutral mechanics/behavior
the game will always be a five versus five, and the introduction of new heroes, and the balancing of current ones can only go so far in increasing the complexity of the game. By altering the environment and the tools available to those ten players, you can effectively increase the depth of the game, and the choices available to the players.
Concerning the 'problem', as seen by some if not most, of mass tp'ing, there are a number of paths to be taken, similar and different to icefrog's own mechanic. 'staggered' tps seems to honestly be the best way to go about it, yet surely there's another way to deter the defensive/reactive behavior that tps encourage.
Low cost items keep the early/mid game fresh and grant more choices to support heroes with limited income.
In regards to the introduction of new neutrals (preferably ones that are not as punishing as catmen, but with their own separate difficulties) the strength of running a jungler can be increased without adding any arbitrary mechanics or adjusting the strength of particular heroes. By merely having an additional camp to roll for in the mediums, legionnaire can have a far easier time early on instead of being screwed by catmen stacks or wolf + mino stacks. There's also the usefulness of a dominated creep (ophelia/hotd)
a creep that summons minions
a creep that has a damage debuff
increasing the cast range of purge on the small creep, and deactivating the ai that automatically uses it
any concerns/interests you may have, in regards to expanding the depth of the game outside of the pick screen?
02-03-2011
i remember this being mentioned a long time ago, as previously, i queried as to when the ability to draw on your minimap would be reenabled. There was a thread populated with certain restrictions/restraints, such as time limitations, draw limitations, etc. To prevent abuse.
Curious about the progress, as pinging a stream of points and playing connect-the-dots can be pretty tedious. I think this would be another facet that could enhance play.
(itt - guy who wants to draw penises on the minimap. Real talk tho, it would help in strategizing as well as charting the path of a potential gank.)
02-10-2011
i think we can all agree that sacrificial stone is a terrible item. I think we all know why. It's a snowball item, that gets stronger as its user nets kills/assists - what it grants is subpar to its large cost, but is the only item that increases in value as the game progresses positively for its user. It's also the item that loses nearly all its worth when you die.
Even on the heroes that can benefit the most from it (see doctor repulsor), the gold is typically better spent on a bkb or early sheepstick. Why? Because the utility is far stronger than the benefit reaped from sacrificial stone. For heroes who don't really rely on mana earned outside of stat increases or bottle/chalice (not doctor repulsor/torturer), such as defiler/soul reaper, a behemoth's heart would be far better, as it provides nearly 1000 hp.
Additional items such as frostfield plate also provide stronger alternatives to sacrificial stone. The item needs to receive an overhaul in concept, imo.
sacrificial stone
5050 gold
10 damage
6 health regeneration
100(?)% mana regeneration
+450 hp
+400 mp
+25 health points per charge
+.25 health regeneration per charge
+1 mana regeneration per charge
Survival Alternatives
Behemoth's Heart
5500 gold
+35 Strength
+300 Health Points
+(?)% Health Regeneration
Vanguard
2225 gold
+6 Health Regeneration
+300 Health Points
+Damage Block
Shrunken Head
3900 gold
+24 Damage
+10 Strength
+Magic Immunity
Mana Alternatives
Kuldra's Sheepstick
5675
+10 Agility
+10 Strength
+35 Intelligence
+200% Mana Regeneration
Stormspirit
2800
+10 Intelligence
+150% Mana Regeneration
+25 MS
there are additional items to choose from, of course, but i decided to list only the obvious choices.
There are a number of things i think could be done to sacrificial stone, in an effort to make it a strong item choice. First is to remove the 'charge' mechanic of sacrificial stone, as it is a poor mechanic (similar to dampeer's, imo).
on use, user regains +4% hp/mp for 15 seconds. Dispels when struck. (similar to health potion)
passive 2.5% hp/mp regeneration. (only regenerates when the hero has not taken player-controlled damage within the past 5 seconds)
i'm sure there are other things you can think of. Feel free to agree/disagree.
02-11-2011
what do you guys think about averaging the values? So instead of say 30-50, a creep will always give 40. Instead of a possible 70-100, it will always give 85. Etc.
I was thinking about this because of the resources earned in other games - gold/minerals in wc/sc. Why should it be random at all? I think this is more true for the dragons in hon/dota, which could pop a crap load. I think it is the same for kongor/rosh as well.
I believe averaging the values would be a good move.
02-16-2011
essentially, i find it potentially beneficial for s2 to integrate clan functionality found at http://clans.heroesofnewerth.com/, into the in-game ui.
Things like the clan page should be accessible within the ui. I'd venture to say, most players don't actively use the forums unless it's to post a complaint, and the clan page really isn't accessible at all (there's no button at the top of the forums). Some of the things to be featured here would be:
participation in tournaments
placement in past tournaments
clan members
clan activity
clan matches/scrimmages
recruitment notices
news section
players should also be able to modify their own in-game profiles to include what kind of roles they prefer (support/carry/solo/ganker/initiator & all-rounder), contact information, and a small 300-character box for them to place whatever they'd like (similar to wc3 in-game profiles).
There should also be a second function similar to the player ladder, except it populates a list of clans lf players, and another section that populates a list of players lf clans. It should also feature some buttons to categorize players/clans (psr/mmr/kd/wards/etc.)
thirdly, there should be a 'lf scrimmage' list with preferred servers and skill level that allows players/teams to launch a query or respond to a search. Answers would ping the user and pop a box like a friend request or match invite.
Lastly, a rematch function at the end of tmm/regular games that if agreed upon by all players, restarts the game in the same mode and at the pick screen.
There are also a number of observer/spectator suggestions i placed before that would increase entertainment and utility.
03-01-2011
thoughts on altering bp so all picks are done by the captain (blue/pink)?
I'd like this very much so as it relegates the final decision to the selected player (be it by mm or by an organized team). It sports numerous pros and cons, but i fully believe the pros outweigh the cons, in both the public and competitive setting. Albeit, it should have no effect on the competitive setting (outside of dodging afk & d/c'd teammates which are obvious pros. Though the captain d/c'ing can be a greater worry.)
03-01-2011
there are things that separate hon and dota, outside of the activity in each competitive scene, the players that praise and condemn the other, etc. I think we can all agree that there is a missing depth in hon compared to dota. There's a reason for this.
I feel as if, design-wise, we (hon) has been developing heroes to succeed at a certain role, and to fit a certain cut, and in doing so we create one-dimension heroes. Cutting straight to the core here, heroes must be created based around new skills, that are innovative and different. Skills that do not stun for x seconds in a y aoe for z damage. Seeing myrmidon, we essentially created a hero that mirrors the role of another hero, with slight differences. He fits in a trilane, but has reach that other trilane supports lack, as well as strong burst capability that others may lack. He is also packaged along with your simple stuns and whatnot, and can serve as a strong ganker.
Heroes must be designed around their skills, and their skills must be made in an effort to increase the depth of the game.
See:
furion (to some extent, nymphora)
broodmother
earthshaker (behemoth)
puck (bubbles)
pugna
storm spirit (doctor repulsor)
clockwork (pharaoh)
nevermore (soulstealer)
to some extent, each hero offers something unique which can be 'replaced', but not fully mimicked by another hero. You can't simply swap out chipper for soulstealer, or flint for dr. Another hero cannot replace the fear es puts into players. Puck and pharaoh fulfill similar roles with entirely different skillsets.
Heroes should be made around different skills, skills that are unique and innovative. By doing this we increase depth, add new fears and worries, new weaknesses and strengths. New lineups oriented around how these skills interact with one another outside of merely stacking stuns or high burst damage.
The goal should be for each hero to incite a different kind of fear in players. Furion/nymph with global teleport (furion also with pushing power, his ultimate), es/behe with their unique blocking capabilities, nevermore/ss with his three nuke/snowball, storm spirit/dr with his mobility.
One hero should never completely overshadow another. (in dota, windrunner made potm basically extinct. Similarly, but to a lesser extent, myrmidon overshadows other tri-lane supports.)
the more different something is, the more dynamic and the more exciting the game becomes.
+1, except the comment about myrmidon overshadowing other trilane heroes
gogo design team!
03-01-2011
i've culled a lot of the stuff i originally placed, and kept most of the incontrovertible.
Still here are the fayde alterations - as i think they are necessary into making her a hero worth picking. Note, i intentionally made her melee stun powerful as currently there is zero reason to ever not use her line stun over her pbaoe stun. Static % based mana burn without the reductions from before, and a rescaling on mana cost so that her pbaoe spell becomes more 'appealing' than the line one - as the line-based spell is currently irrefutably better. Again, i lowered her str growth as her passive was buffed to be a stronger choice than stats (stats is currently better lul).
Note also, it will be helpful if other players could comment on the suggestions of others so i can at least glean some loose knowledge on what may or may not need addressing.
Please focus discussion on all the additions - but if there is a 'glaring' issue with the 'previous changes' (as you may find it imbalanced, or extremely unnecessary), please state your case. everything is open to change. I only separated the changes so they're easier to identify.
Things i believe need to be addressed
engineer
dampeer's essence mechanic (i believe his skills should be normalized, as if he had two essences or 1.5)
what i desire from you guys (competitors)
feedback
additional suggestions (buffs/debuffs)
approval/disapproval
last note - this is merely a list of suggestions. Everything is ultimately filtered/approved by s2, and this thread should be a focus point where we can pool our efforts together.
new additions
miscellaneous changes
gold earned from creeps/ancients/neutrals/kongor averaged.
hero changes
:legi:legionnaire
terrifying charge
now gives 100% slow resistance
:tort:torturer
chain reaction
cast point from 500 ms to 575 ms.
:succ:succubus
range from 500 to 400
heartache
cast point buffed
mesmerize
cast point buffed
item changes
:harkonsblade:harkon's blade
no longer changes projectile
doesn't nerf projectile speeds of ranged heroes anymore, doesn't delay melee attacks anymore.
:stormspirit:stormspirit
now no effecttype on enemy units.
fixes pebbles' cyclone visual bug where he appears to still be cycloned but is actually not. **even if it is a statusdebuff, it cannot be purged unless the purge ignores invulnerability.
[I]some changes courtesy of elementuser
previous changes
miscellaneous changes
courier
when delivering items to a user, their items are prioritized first - followed by any wards/shareables
illusions
no longer inherit orbs outside of mana burn (nullfire blade)
hero changes
:bloo:bloodhunter
hemorrhage
altered so that skills like valk's leap/kraken's charge cause damage
:dark:the dark lady
taint soul
changed mana cost from 35/45/55/65 to static 35
:deme:demented shaman
unbreakable
changed mana cost from 85 to 135
changed cool down from 15 seconds to 18 seconds
:fayd:fayde
decreased str growth from 2.0 to 1.6
cull/burning shadows
rescaled mana burn from 6/12/18/24% to 20% at all levels
removed - if multiple heroes are hit, the mana destruction is split, reducing the burn by 1 / 2 / 3 / 4% per hero
cull
rescaled mana cost from 100/110/120/130 to 80/95/110/125
burning shadows
rescaled mana cost from 85/105/125/145 to 100/115/130/145
scythe stance
charges from 1/2/3/4 to 1/3/5/7
:gaun:gauntlet
grapple
slightly increased touch radius
:legi:legionnaire
taunt
reduced cast time
whirling blade
tower attacks may now cause legionnaire to spin
:mali:maliken
sword throw
removed healing cap of 300
:myrm:myrmidon
decreased int growth from 3.2 to 2.9
weed field
rescaled cooldown from 10 seconds at all levels to 16/15/14/13 seconds
wave form
reduced cast range from 1000 to 700/800/900/1000
:nigh:nighthound
invisibility
may now be turned on/off (this enables him to creep pull/stack)
:phar:pharaoh
mummy walls
altered so that skills like kraken's charge/myrmidon's charge cannot escape when trapped
:plag:plague rider
extinguish
rescaled cool down from 55/50/45/40 seconds to 40 seconds at all levels
:pred:predator
venomous leap
changed cooldown from 20/17/14/11 seconds to 16/14/12/10 seconds.
:sand:sandwraith
desert's curse
rescaled movement slow from 5/9/14/18% to 8/12/16/20%
dissipate
reworked
rescaled damage reduction from 4/8/12/16% to 10/14/18/22%
damage is only reflected to the damage dealer, and not in an aoe
mirage
increased damage received by illusions from 200% to 250%
:scou:scout
vanish
no longer loses 'flurry' when invisibility is manually disabled
electric eye
silence no longer pierces magic immunity
:swif:swiftblade
blade frenzy
q may be pressed again to halt spinning
attacks made while spinning cannot crit
attacks made while spinning do not apply attack modifiers
:tort:torturer
chain reaction
rescaled stun duration from 2 seconds at all levels to 1.25/1.5/1.75/2.0 seconds
torment
can only be turned off manually or from a lack of mana
silence no longer turns it off
:tund:tundra
call of winter
fixed so that shiver properly receives damage from all hostile spells
currently, certain spells do not hit the bird
item changes
:assassinshroud:assassin's shroud
increased stealth bonus movement speed from 20% to 25%
:geometersbane:geometer's bane
decreased recipe cost from 1200 to 800
:slash:firebrand
can now be built with a soulscream ring + quickblade (may still be built with fleetfeet + quickblade)
:hack:icebrand
can now be built with a fortified bracelet + mighty blade (may still be built with bolstering armband + mighty blade)
:puzzlebox:puzzlebox
the wizard is now the first tabbed unit
i.e. You have your hero and the two minions highlighted. Tabbing once will bring you to the wizard