the vile Commander

[Sordak]

Base Stats:

25 (+3.1) 13 (+1.3) 17 (+2.1)
Range: 150
Affiliation: Hellbourne
Move Speed: 300


Theme:


http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/9/97/Hi-res-Feast_for_the_Dead.jpghttp://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/4/40/Hi-res-Armor_of_Unfeeling.jpghttp://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/d/d3/Hi-res-Explosive_Growth.jpghttp://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/8/86/Hi-res-Grenth%27s_Aura.jpg (icons WIP and stolen from Guildwars)

The vile Commander is a Teamplay supporter, as his name implies he is deisgnet to lead the Team into battle. He has unique skills that makes him able to either Lead the Team into the battle or help them fleeing from the battlefield. His skills that buff Focus fire make him a usefull ganker and his Wall of Undead Soldiers can realy turn the tide in team fights.

Story:
He was first witnessed when the Hellbourne spawned the first time from the Hell to hunt down the decadent and degenerated scum that once were Humans. However he was one of them himself, his story began in long forgotten Ages, when Technology flourished and War was spread among the Lands of Man.
He was an Officer in a war that killed off alot of the Population of Mankind. But he was also a tactical Mastermind, and would sometimes become a brilliant General. However that never happened, when the War endet he eventually was captured and executed.
However while his Immortal Soul was tormented by Demons he rejected Humankind and pledged allience to the Hellbourne who quickly recognized his Brilliance.
To ensure his loyalty they turned the poor Man into a twisted Creature without emotions. Just with a pure, cold and rational mind to lead the Hellbourne Troops.

Look:
http://legendsofnorrath.station.sony.com/images/spoilers/Iksar-Avatar.jpg
Without the Mohican actually that looks dumb.
yeah Iksar are the most awsome Fantasy Race ever. and they represent exactly this what i want for this Hero, a cold thinking killing machine. However they look Human like enaugh to fit in his story.

He should look somewhat Heroic but also Cold. He should be armed with a Sword (maybe some fantasy stuff addet) and a shield or a Banner. He MUST have a Cape (and be iksar)
HIs armor should be somewhat Crazy look at the Leather Armor from the new D&D Concepts! Very crazy and all out awsome.

Quotes:

Quotes are rather WIP i will change em soon!

When he Spawns:

"i join you, to lead!"
"i shall take the Command!"
"You thought Duty would end in Death?"
"It is my duty."
"Fear ensures loyalty"
laughing "there wont be release for you.... as long as you have enaugh limbs to fight"

Movement:

"I think so"
"We shall strike with precision"
"i lead the way!"
"spreading Terror"
"your a true Mastermind" ironic
"yess..... indeed" also ironic

Attack:

"I shall show them the weakness of Flesh"
"Glory for the first Man to die!"
"punish the weak!"
"punish this worthless waste of flesh!"
"Fürs Vaterland!"
"Their Flesh is weak and their souls feeble"
"Suffer!"
"dont worry, you will face death.... sooner or later" with diabolic and ironic voice
"Wortheless!"
"The Crying of the dying starts to annoy me"

When clicking on him:

"Mankind is the suffering, Extinction the cure"
"After thousands of battles one can only see Blood" (didnt wanted to 1:1 copy dawn of war but the quote is so awsome)
"There is no release in Death"
"no mercy for the weak"
"Dont worry, they wont face death only once"
"Your weak mind wont understand..."
"Once i was Man, now i am more"
"They told you from beautifull plains that are captured in an endless state of Summer with Birds singing for you" he takes a short break and laughs silently "they lied"


Skills (finaly):

Hideous Order:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/9/97/Hi-res-Feast_for_the_Dead.jpg

The vile Commander commands his Troops with pure evil lying in his words.

Cost: 80/85/90/95
Cooldown: 11 seconds

Can target Ground and Enemy Hero.


If targeted ground: Max Range:1000
Marks that spot, this spot is visible on
Minimap for friendly Heroes. All friendly heroes around 1000 of that spot
have theyr movement speed increased by 10/15/20/25% when
they move towards that spot.
Duration: 5 seconds

If targeted an enemy: Max Reach 500
Marks that Hero on the Minimap if he is within 500 *unit* of
the caster and not stealthed. friendly Heroes will deal
5/10/15/20% more damage to target Hero
Duration: 1/2/3/3.5 seconds



Adjustable Tactics:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/4/40/Hi-res-Armor_of_Unfeeling.jpg

The brilliance of the vile Commander allows him to Adjust his Tactics for every Situation on the Battlefield. He Orders his Allies to find the weak spots in the Attacks and the Blocks of theyr foes to use that against them.

Switchable Passive Aura: offensive focus, defensive focus
Switch cooldown: 2.5 seconds
Radius: 700

Offensive Focus: whenever a friendly Hero within this Aura deals autoattack damage to an enemy Hero (this only works on Heroes not Creeps or Kongor) this Hero gets a stack of the Debuff "Weak Spot". this debuff lasts for 1.5 second.
Whenever he is Damaged again he is dealed 4/8/12/16 extra damage for every stack they have ( the damage type is the same as the attack that triggered this effect).
The max ammount of stacks is 2/3/4/5

Defensive Focus: whenever a friendly Hero within this aura is dealt damage he gets one stack of "Skilled Defense" this stacks last for 2 seconds.
Whenever said hero is damaged again the damage will be reduced by 5/9/13/17 , this does not apply on any Dots.
the max ammount of stacks is 2/3/4/5


Grasp of Hades:

the vile Commander lets the earth Crack beyond his feet creating a Scar that reaches deep right down to the deepest pits of Hell from there he calls upon the countless Soldiers that died under his command. In their bitter attempts to flee from their Prison they will grab and tear appart any Enemy Hero who is daring enaugh to step close to this Scar.

cooldown: 20 seconds
cost: 130/140/150/160
Range: 700

creates a Scar at target location. Said scar is 300/400/500/600 units wide.
Whenever an Enemy Hero steps close it he will be hold in Place by the Undead for 1/2/3/3 seconds (mmobolized, Revealed, Disarmed) . While Holding them the Undeads are tearing the enemies apart dealing 20/25/30/35 damage per second the scar lasts for 4/5/6/7 seconds.

Explanation: again very simmilar to Fissure, it also holds in Place an damage Enemies that dare to come close to it. very messy in team fights!

Dark Triumph:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/8/86/Hi-res-Grenth%27s_Aura.jpg

The vile Commander unleashes all the evil in the souls of his Followers. The Vile Commander might actually bring the ultimate Triumph of Darkness over the Planes of Newerth.

cost: 250/150/100
Cooldown: 60 seconds

AoE.
Area: 650/700/750
Heroes within the AoE get healed by 5/10/15% of the damage all enemy Heroes within the AoE already have taken.
They receive +3/6/9 armour from Every 300 un-healed

THANKS TO TYRANDO FOR FIXING THIS SKILL

Explanation: Dark Triumph is an AoE around the vile Commander. It heals every friendly Heroe in its Range by a percentage of the HP enemie Heroes already lost that also stand within the Range of this spell.
Explanation of the Armor buff by Tyrando: They receive +3/6/9 armour from Every 300 un-healed, which sounds confusing so ill explain.
If you are healed for 400 hp by this ultimate, you would gain +6 armour, if you were healed for 250 you would gain +9 armour.

Gameplay:

the Vile Commander is, as the name implies a Commander, he is an INT Suppoerter and should be used as such, his STR gain is rather high so he has a lot higher survivability than other Int heroes, However besides Duty in Death he has no skills that can directly cause damage to your Oponents.
He needs strong teamplay but also fits in nearly evey hero build.

When playing him you might Focus on Focusfire using Offensive Focus and Hideous Order to increase the damage against one target. Also keep in mind that Duty in Death can be used in alot of ways simmilar to Behemoths fissure. There is no way to pass it so it can be used to Block lanes or paths in the forest, to seperate teams and many more things.

Hideos Order can also be used in alot of different ways. It can be used to escape from a teamfight or as initiation. It doesnt only increase the movement speed of heroes moving into a certain direction but also heroes that come from the other direction to the marked spot. So this skill is VERY usefull with some planning and can easily decide any gank. But can also be used to get away from danger with your whole team.
As an adition to that you have an awsome Focus Fire spell to take out core Heroes.

Adjustable Tactics can be used in simmilar ways. Offensive Focus directly effects Focus Fire and makes it extremley easy to kill off a target if the whole Team listenes to you Defensive Focus on the other hand is great at countering Enemy Focus fire!

Dark Triumph is a realy strong ult that can either be used to stay in a lane after a succesfull teamfight and push or to turn around a Teamfight, you dont have to be succesfull in the fight in order to use this skill, the enemy team will always be damaged and this could realy turn the tide. Never forget about this skill!


Synergies:

coming soon if needet!





Please give me feedback, comment on Numbers but vote on Concept!
thanks ! :)

Updates:

-changed duration of Defensive Position to 5/7/9/11
-Nerfed Dark Triumph from 10/20/30% heal to 5/10/15% heal
-Nerfed Offensive focus from 5/10/15/20 bonus damage to 2/5/8/12 bonus damage [OLD]
-Nerfed Defensive Focus from 5/10/15/20 damage reduction to 3/6/9/13 damage reduction [OLD]
-Clarifyed Hideous Order
- Nerfed Hideos Orders movement increase from 10/20/30/40% to 10/15/20/25%
- Adjustable Tactics now has a 5 second switch cooldown. [OLD]
- Changed Rally call so it doesnt effect on Heroes that are hold back by any ultimate like tempests or Devourers ultimate.
- Nerfed Dark Triumphs Are from 800/900/1000 to 650/700/750
- Changed Offensive Focus from 2/5/8/12 bonus damage and 2/3/4/5 stacks to 1/2/4/6 extra damage and 3/5/6/8 stacks [OLD]
-Changed Defensive Focus from 3/6/9/13 reduction and 2/3/4/5 stacks to 1/3/5/7 reduction and 3/5/6/8 stacks [OLD]
-Buffed Adjustable Tactics it now has 2.5 switch cooldown.
- Offensive Focus now has 4/8/12/16 bonus damage and 2/3/4/5 stacks
- Defensive Focus now has 5/9/13/17 reduction and 2/3/4/5 stacks
- nerfed Rally Call from 110 mana cost, 15 seconds cooldown and 700/1000/1600/2000 area to 130 manacost 30 seconds cooldown and 600/800/1000/1200 area
-addet Explanations for Rally Call and Dark Triumph
- WIP Rally Call rework, please comment: [OLD]
-Changed the duration of Weak Spot from 1.0 to 1.5
-Replaced Rally Call with Duty in Death
- Tweaked Duty in Death The Undead now only push one time. The Number of Undeads also has been tweaked. Pushback is now 100
- Dark Triumph now has also a physical armor buff on it wich maks the skill alot more usefull, and make it usefull for more than one situation.
-Changed the the cost of Duty in Death from 60/70/80/90 to 150/160/170/180
-Replaced Duty in Death with Grasp of Hades
-Grasp of Hades has its range decreased from 900 to 700 and its Cooldown nerfed from 15 seconds to 20 seconds
-Changed Grasp of Hades : the hold no longe rlasts 2/3/4/5 seconds but 1/2/3/3 seconds and the DPS is increased from 10/15/20/25 to 20/25/30/35




Deleted Skills:

Rally Call:

Art File: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/a/a3/Hi-res-%22Watch_Yourself%21%22.jpg

the vile Commander calls his Allies to reunite around him to form a more defensive Formation.

Cost: 130
Cooldown: 30 seconds

rally call has no effect on Heroes that are bound by an ultimate like Devourers ult or Tempests Vortex

Calls all friendly heroes Around the vile Commander to him.
Area:600/800/1000/1200
applies "Defensive Position" on said Heroes. this lasts for 5/7/9/11 seconds. "Defensive Position" gives + 1/2/3/4 armor and + 1/2/3/3 magic armor.

Explanation: Basicaly it teleports all friendly Heroes within its Range to him. And also buffs them, however this doesnt work on any Heroes that are held back by Ultimates ( like Devourers or Tempests Ultimate).

Reunite:

the vile Commander calls upon his Soldiers to reunite for another Assault.

Forces friendly Heroes within 600/800/1000/1200 area around you to moove to the vile Commander. However the Controler of those Heroes will be able to Cancel this move after 1.5 seconds , this will Cancel all Buffs from this Skill.

While moving towards the vile Commander friendly Heroes move with 100/125/150/175 MS. They get theyr Armor Increased by 2/4/6/8 and theyr Magic armor by 1/2/3/4.
This Forced move will break all non-ult, non-stun(this does only count for stuns, not simmilar effects)disables.

after finishing this forced moove friendly Heroes will have theyr armor and magic armro increased by 1/2/3/4 for 2/4/6/8 seconds due the Buff "Defensive Formation"

Duty in Death:

Art File: http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/d/d3/Hi-res-Explosive_Growth.jpg

the vile Commander nerver forgets and never forgives. Whoever served under him is bound to his Soul for all eternety. Using the dark Powers his new Incarnation grants him he calls upon his fallen Squad to hold the ground even in Death.Coming in contact with one of those poor Souls is a such traumatic event that it demoralises even the most brave Heroes.

THANKS TO: TYRANDO , TRIUMPH AND KERESPUP FOR THE GREAT IDEA!

Summons a Wall of Undead Soldiers that come out of the Ground. They cant move but will Defend their position at all costs.

Cooldown: 15 seconds
Cost: 150/160/170/180
Range: 650
Summons 5/6/7/8 Undead Soldiers (not THAT generic skeletons, they should be bound to the ground somewhat) those cant move.
They will stand next to each other and form a Wall, this wall will be facing in the direction the spell is casted. They work simmilar as mummys so Heroes cant pass.
They push back incoming enemies and will take 3/3/4/4 hits to kill. They will deal 40/50/60/70 true damage at the end of the push enemies get slowed by 5/10/15/20% for 3/4/5/6 seconds. Those Undead will push one time.
The Undead stay for 4/5/6/7 seconds.
Pushback is 100

Explanation: it works very simmilar to Darkseers Ulti. It can be used like Fissure to block paths, seperate Enemies or just cause some damage. It might be missunerstood as a clone of the Mummies however the function of the spell is very different while the mechanics are somewhat simmilar! please tell me if more needs to be explained.

[Tyrando]

tttttT-upoo!!!

[VenomKing]

1st spell: Not sure of what it does when you git the ground, so it gives minor movespeed if you are in 1000 range of the center and you move towards the center?

It gives you bonus movespeed for 500 units ? Seems weak, more useful when cast on heroes.

2nd spell: rewrite it it's hard to understand what it does. But overall it makes your presence useful in team fights. I like.

3rd spell: I like spells that have the potential to **** up the enemy plans. Nothing to say here.

ult: It seems okay. It can give the upper hand if the teams are even.

It's not that great tough, you could think of something better.

I still like it tough, so I will T-UP

If you have to review one of my heroes please review the slaughterer thanks.

[Sordak]

the second skill stacks debuffs on enemies hit in the aura, for every debuff they recieve more damage from incoming attacks.
the defensive focus gives the hero stacks when they are hit. and when they are hit again the damage is reduced.

Ok again the first Skill: actually no its not like that. It effects the whole team. So EVERYONE around 1000units around that area get increased movement speed i think thats far from beeing weak!

[Xtrykr]

Interesting new skill with Duty of Death. Its like the witch doctor's mummy wall from Diablo 3 (works pretty much the same!). Works very well on this character since he's knee deep in the action alot of time and will probably get the best out of such a skill to push back enemies that get too close. Anyway, T-UP :)

[Bugglez]

1st Skill: I like the idea, and it fits the theme very well!
2nd Skill: I could see the offensive being pretty nasty with Madman/Pred. I like it.
3rd Skill: I like the idea of a wall of undead, but I'm not a fan of making them immobile. I think having a wall of undead that either pushes away from The Vile Commander, or toward the Commander would work better.
Ult: Cool idea, don't care about numbers really.

One thing, when I was reading this, I was imagining him as a STR Melee. He might work as INT as well though.

I am trying to start a Feedback for Feedback thread. Please check it out and see if you might be interested? http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=31136
G

[Sordak]

i will have a look at it.

well Wall of Undead is rather used like Behes fissure, making them Mobile would be WTF look at the damage they do!


EDIT: also thanks for the feedback Xtrykr!!!

[GrymM]

I can normally pour a lot of feedback into these, but I'm at a bit of a loss today.

I do however like the ideas you have here very much so (Especially the ult), it's a lot like a hero I'm designing as a tank for Legion.

Props on a very good idea, if I come up with anything I'll be back, but all I can do right now is provide some positive reinforcement and another vote in your favor.

[Sordak]

who the hell voted no?

besides i got a new Idea for the ult that might be ALOT better than the Old Concept

Dark Triumph:

Global
Cost: 250
Cooldown: 115 seconds

Global Effect

duration: 5/7/9 seconds
Global Effect on all Friendly Heroes. Increases their MS by 10/15/20% when moving towards the enemy base.
Giving every friendly hero + 2/3/4 armor and +1/1.5/2 magic armor for every allied hero around 700 units of him.

what do you think of this? PLEASE leave comments its very important!


EDIT: Scrapped bad idea i rather tweak the original ult.

How about letting the ult steal Armor? or just Increase armor of your dudes?

[Tyrando]

right lets see, 60 second cooldown which means it cannot be gamebreaking (120 minimum if it's going to breakgames i.e Behemoth, Kraken, Old TDL etc.) so as of right now his ulti is a bit hit and miss, if you pop it at the wrong time you waste it completely, if you time it right its GG.

So you want a small buff, Armour being the most obvious choice for a hero like this, perhaps code it so that the less healing you recieve from the ultimate the more armour you gain, make it only Physical armour though, both armours would be pretty intense.

As for numbers lets see:

Dark Triumph:

Radius:1000
Cost:300
Cooldown:60

Heroes within the AoE get healed by 5/10/15% of the damage all enemy Heroes within the AoE have already taken.

They receive +3/6/9 armour from Every 300 un-healed, which sounds confusing so ill explain.

If you are healed for 400 hp by this ultimate, you would gain +6 armour, if you were healed for 250 you would gain +9 armour.

In essence it doesnt make the ultimate completely worthless if you time it incorrectly and gives a small buff.

The numbers ofc can be changed, buffing the spell means nerfing the cooldown/mana cost and vise versa.

[Sordak]

thanks those Ideas are GREAT ill implent them right now! thanks for saving this suggestioon once more!

[Sabre]

I like the remake without Rallying Cry, seems to work much better.

Dark Triumph is underpowered as is, what about giving it an attack speed bonus to allies affected equal to 35%/45%/55% of the amount they are healed for 5 seconds? (So if they heal for 150 , they also receive a big 82.5 IAS boost for a short time.) Also consider increasing the numbers for Dark Triumph since if its used when the enemy is really low, the fight is most likely already won, and if its used mid fight for the optimal swing in battle, Ophelia's Ult currently completely dwarfs this skill. Try a static 30%.

I would say that you might want to change the third skill to differentiate it further from Pharaoh's wall of mummies. Perhaps instead having the mummies push away they instead attack every second and damage and slow enemies.

[Bugglez]

Sorry if you were uninterested, but if you were The Gauntlet (feedback for feedback suggestion) has been moved. You can find it here.
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=31136
free bump if nothing else then!

[Sordak]

Bugglez actually i would like feedback more than free bump.

Sabre i am currently working on Dark Triumph it has recently changed and now gives a pretty neat armor bonus look that up please!

and what changes are you thinking of at my wall? i want it to be somewhat of a controll spell like, a mix of behes fissure and the mummies.

one change im considering is that they push and than move towards the enemy (but after a small duration so its not like pandas flurry and not that OP)

[Passthechips]

Hideous Order
- While the first part of spell is all right (It could use a longer duration), the second part of the spell is just too weak to justify using it as such. My suggestion to it is that you when casted on a target, allied heroes gain a movement and attack speed increase for a 6 seconds duration.

Adjustable Tactics
- This is a good skill, I would make the buff/debuff last 3-5 seconds however.

Duty in Death
- Honestly this skill is basically a flat out copy of Mummy Wall, and has less uses. It has no synergy with the rest of your skills. Here is my suggestion

Bone Spire

Skill Description: The Vile Commander raises a unholy Bone Spire from the ground. The Bone Spire demoralizes enemies causing them to lose armor. In addition the Bone Spire will hurl bone spikes at enemies activating Weak Spot if that aura is up.

Cast Range: 900

Level 1: Raises a Bone Spire with 1000 health at the target location. Applies Aura of Death which lowers nearby heroes armor by 2. Multiple Bone Spires cause this aura to stack. Bone Spire deals 5-6 damage every 2 seconds to enemies within a 600 range. Cooldown 30 seconds. Duration 1 minute.

Level 2: Raises a Bone Spire with 1000 health at the target location. Applies Aura of Death which lowers nearby heroes armor by 2. Multiple Bone Spires cause this aura to stack. Bone Spire deals 8-9 damage every 2 seconds to enemies within a 600 range. Cooldown 25 seconds. Duration 1 minute.

Level 3: Raises a Bone Spire with 1000 health at the target location. Applies Aura of Death which lowers nearby heroes armor by 3. Multiple Bone Spires cause this aura to stack. Bone Spire deals 11-12 damage every 2 seconds to enemies within a 600 range. Cooldown 20 seconds. Duration 1 minute.

Level 4: Raises a Bone Spire with 1000 health at the target location. Applies Aura of Death which lowers nearby heroes armor by 4. Multiple Bone Spires cause this aura to stack. Bone Spire deals 14-15 damage every 2 seconds to enemies within a 600 range. Cooldown 15 seconds. Duration 1 minute.



Dark Triumph
- I like the skill, can't say much.

[Tyrando]

It's nothing like Mummy Wall, its a combination of Fissure & Mummy Wall.

Good Behemoths can use fissure in such a way that it completely blocks off an enemy heroes path to safety, he then gets the **** kicked out of him.

This spell would work like Darkseer's Ultimate

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc294/Flodian/war32007-10-0708-59-26-40new.jpg

And have the effect of Pharaoh's Mummies meaning its a Block that if you get close it will really disrupt you by hurting you, disabling you (the pushback) and then slowing you.

It has alot of uses and is aimed at specifically blocking off enemy retreat or preventing them from pushing.

[Sordak]

THIS

basicaly listen to Tyrando he is awsome. and he came up with this spell to be honest.

by the way i dont get your Problem with the first skill i rather fear that its overpowered look at the synergies with the aura the damage you can do with those two skills is INSANE.

think of madman!

WTF! i get T-down for NO REASON


EDIT: NEW SKILL RELEASED again done by TYRANDO. Simmilar to Duty in Death in use but very different Mechanics please Comment!

[Tyrando]

Btw Sordak it's Grip not Gripe, Gripe is a whole nother word :)

You should fix up your Typo's.

[Sordak]

LOL true. i just suck! and its late!

[kerespup]

Hideous Order
For the Area type, I can imagine it would summon an affector entity at the target point in the ground that has an aura that increases movement speed in a 1000 AoE range and last for 5 seconds I believe? Doesn't seem to be problematic.

For the Unit target type, I'm not sure why but i'm having a hard time emulating it in my head, can you explain what precisely happens when this effect is cast? It's limitations and the like seem rather aloof, and from what I'm thinking (on a whim) feels underpowered for its duration, paling in comparison to Blood Hunter's passive marking ability.

Adjustable Tactics
Offensive/Defensive Focus
The grammar lost me somehow, but anyhow, from what I can understand, you're trying to say: "Whenever an allied hero affected by this aura strikes an enemy hero with a normal attack, the enemy hero will receive a Stacking debuff called 'Weak Spot' which lasts for 1.5 seconds" am I right?

My only question for this is if the Duration also stacks. (1 hit = 1.5 seconds debuff, 2 hit = 3.0, etc etc) just to see wether it's possible to perma 'Weak Spot' enemies.

Same question on Defensive Focus.

Grasp of Hades
My only questions for this is does it interfere with normal pathing for both enemies and allies? and can they be attacked?

Dark Triumph
From what I understand from this skill, it regenerates a portion of the allies' missing HP, like the inverse of Soul Reaper's ultimate and furthermore it adds armor after the heal where you gain more armor if you don't regenerate as much life. Secondly, you forgot to add the duration of the armor buff.

I'll run about some simulation examples using Level 3 of Dark Triumph:

Hero 1 has 500/3000 HP that means he has lost 2500 HP so he will be healed for only 375 HP. Now for calculating the amount of HP that hasn't been healed or "un-healed" as you call it we go 2500 - 375 = 2175 Now we divide that by 300 we get 7.25 and we multiply it with the armor bonus of 9 we get +65.25 Armor.

Hero 2 has 1500/2000 HP that means he only lost 500 HP so he will be only healed for 75 HP and calculating the amount of HP that is unhealed, that would be 500-75 which is 425 dividing that by 300 we get 1.4 and multiplying it with the armor bonus we get + 12.75 armor.

Is that right?

From what I see if that's how it works, it's underpowered in terms that it doesn't heal a good amount, and it still makes your allies screwed when it comes to Magic Attacks despite the high armor, and it's overpowered by the numbers you get from the bonus armor.

I'll hold down any more further arguments for this skill since you haven't exactly put up a duration for the armor bonus yet.

[Sordak]

uhm not realy.

First skill: no it doesnt create an aura around itself it only effects heroes that move TOWARDS it. that of course wouldnt be possible with the Warcraft 3 engine, thats what makes it awsome.

the targeting skill will be tweaked to be more effective.

and yess it SHOULD be possible to perma weak spot however you need rather high attack speed to perform that.

Grasp of Hades should work like Behes fissure its not enterly made that enemies step into it but rather that they dont DARE to do it. so its more a blocker. look at deleted skills i had something very different (and fun) in mind but people kept complaining it was too simmilar to mummies so i scrapped it.

the ult works like this: you get armor for the ammount of damage you are NOT healed. why? well it is like two effects if you cast it early in a fight your allies will get a serious armor debuff while when oyu cast it longer it might save them from beeing asskicked. however they still get a slightly armor buff.
the reason for not adding Magic armor is that it would be too OP having both physical AND magical armor AND a pretty neat heal.

still thanks for the feedback. i hope that explained it to you a bit better.

[Bugglez]

Hate to be a Negative Nancy, and I think you had this thread up before this news was posted. Nome has updated Game voids, Int Melee is a void =/. Maybe try making him a strength melee, and see if Nome or Ninja can help you out?

BTW I did provide feedback =)

1st Skill: I like the idea, and it fits the theme very well!
2nd Skill: I could see the offensive being pretty nasty with Madman/Pred. I like it.
3rd Skill: I like the idea of a wall of undead, but I'm not a fan of making them immobile. I think having a wall of undead that either pushes away from The Vile Commander, or toward the Commander would work better.
Ult: Cool idea, don't care about numbers really.

(I've already voted yes btw, I like the hero)

[Sordak]

Bugglez thanks for the comments. yeah i was thinking about that change to the Wall of Undead.

and Melee int is what? i need to look that up.

and WTF negative votes? FU! no comments!

[kerespup]

uhm not realy.

First skill: no it doesnt create an aura around itself it only effects heroes that move TOWARDS it. that of course wouldnt be possible with the Warcraft 3 engine, thats what makes it awsome.

the targeting skill will be tweaked to be more effective.

and yess it SHOULD be possible to perma weak spot however you need rather high attack speed to perform that.

Grasp of Hades should work like Behes fissure its not enterly made that enemies step into it but rather that they dont DARE to do it. so its more a blocker. look at deleted skills i had something very different (and fun) in mind but people kept complaining it was too simmilar to mummies so i scrapped it.

the ult works like this: you get armor for the ammount of damage you are NOT healed. why? well it is like two effects if you cast it early in a fight your allies will get a serious armor debuff while when oyu cast it longer it might save them from beeing asskicked. however they still get a slightly armor buff.
the reason for not adding Magic armor is that it would be too OP having both physical AND magical armor AND a pretty neat heal.

still thanks for the feedback. i hope that explained it to you a bit better.

1. So does that mean heroes moving away from the target point will not gain any bonus movement speed even if they're within that 1000 range?

2. That's exactly what I meant in my analysis about the ult <_< i even did the math.

Well, for now I'm holding my vote, in case that you might make any further changes.

I'll wait for the final product before I vote.

PS: You might want to ask someone to do some proofreading on your suggestion. It was kind of painful to read as some of the text were cluttered up and some words were hard to make sense of. Though it's probably just me being used to proper English.

[Sordak]

1. yess. thats the point of this skill and thats why the MS increase is so damn high.

2. maybe numbers have to be tweaked you ma y be right. but what doy ou exactly want to be changed O.o

edit: currently considering replacing the ult the new skill would be "Not even in Death does Duty end" wich basicaly could rivive 1/2/3 friendly heroes for like 3/4/5 seconds they would be invulnerable and would spawn with 50/75/100% mana. they could have reduced damage or something.

what do you think? better than the current ulti?

[Shen]

This hero is quite the support hero and does have quite some potential to be honest.

Hideous order

Nice supportskill and will be quite the pushing skill IMO or escape-attempt ability. I dont know if you have ever thought about this. But how about the hero puts up an banner that increases attackspeed or Damage or movement speed in lets say 800 radius and which only fades if destroyed? Or maybe a "Dark herald" who moves with a unit and has a unitaura that increases their damage and enables you to command units to attack X target?

Just my ideas ^^

Adjustable Tactics

I really dont know what to say about this skill. It seems quite the Zenith of support on this hero as it only helps other heros and not himself if I understood right. Nice ability, good idea, keep it as it is.

Grasp of hades

This skill is hardly similair to fissure, maybe ONLY on visual, but not in damage nor effects. I like the skill, seems very good but could be overpowered in teamfights, I dont know. Maybe you can set a "max hero amount" who can be pulled into this? Or a channeling time so enemies have got a chance to avoid?

Dark triumph

So basically.. They recreive the armor if no damage was done before the skill, but get the armor for every X*300 of HP already lost? Seems good.

Could be a bit overpowered too if they get the damage they deal under this spell 1 to 1 as healing back. Maybe make it that they get 25% of their damage dealt back as lifesteal?

I like the skills all in all, very supportive and not self centered.

[Skyve]

the "target enemy" type of the first skill seems quite weak. At least let him reveal invisible units with it and increase the duration to 5-6 seconds.

Offensive Focus is kinda the same as Ursas Orb effect, right? The ability seems okay (both, offensive and defensive focus).

How does the third ability work? You cast it at the edge of the casting range, and then you've got a 1300 range immobilize? Seems quite OP.

How long does the ultimate last?

[Sordak]

The target enemy skill is a bit weak early game but in combination with Valkyrie, Madman or any other hero with alot of attack speed will get WTF damage agaisnt this hero.

Thhe third skill doesnt works like this no. its in a line. its not placed like fissure but like DarkSeers ult so no it wont be that range it works different.

im not sure about the duration of the Ultimate buff but about the normal duration off a team fight is what i have in mind.

[docterj208]

Skill 1: A way to move faster for 1000 units if going in the right direction or a way to do damage and mark a target. However, it isn't as useful without true site. Interesting twist on Chen's extra damage move. My only complaint is that you don't get the speed boost when targeting the hero.

Skill 2: Offensive aura is basically giving everyone on your team a free ursa orb. Way too powerful in my opinion. Especially with someone like madman and scout in the game. However, the defensive aura is fine.

Skill 3: Not sure how I feel about this ability, but I can say that it is too large an AoE. It is basically like tree's ult except ranged and a normal ability. Make it 400 AoE max at top level or this skill has some serious balance issues in my opinion.

Ult: Did I read this right? They get +9 armor to start and then -3 armor for every 300 hp healed? If so, makes sense and is a decent heal based on damage. However, I don't look as this ability as something incredibly awesome. Not bad, just not my favorite ultimate in the game.


Overall, he seems interesting and it is an interesting concept. Not sure what I will vote but I will probably vote in a day or so.

[Sordak]

1: yess i know i thought about this too but i feel it would be too strong and too easy to chase down a hero. It should be more a supporter for WINNING the game not for scoring alot of kills through chasing.

2. what changes do you suggest to the offensive thing? and yess i was inspired by Ursa.

3. no youre getting it wrong its just in a Line. not an AoE. its placed like Dark Seers ult!

Ult: well i hoped you like it better =D what changes do you suggest to make it more interresting?

[docterj208]

1. Well, it is kinda like Ohelia's spell except can be used with spots on the ground also. I don't think it would be bad to make it effect targets also. 20% MS boost isn't that OP for 5 seconds.

2. Well, for one, you could make it only effect your current target (you must get first hit) but that might be bad. Or, you could make it do something like Andromeda's support aura. Just keep in mind, that this ability is 2 aura's in one. The easiest way to do what you want (within balance but boring) is to have a + 5 armor aura and a - 5 armor aura.

3. Well, even if it is a line, I still think it is a little too strong. And you might want to change wide to long in the description. Point being is that it can immobilize and do magical damage like Tree's ult. Maybe remove the disarm aspect and it should be ok.

4. well, it doesn't do any damage and this hero is mostly support. Make it do damage or make it heal for damage received as well? 15% isn't that much.

[Sordak]

FIrst yess i consider that. maybe thats a good idea! I think i will implent this.

secondly no. +5 armor -5 armor is boring and shitty. i hate boring stuff! i want it to be unique.

3rd hmmm sounds valid. i think i will implent htis

4: keep in mind that you also get an armor buff!

thanks for the feedback so far i will implent it all as soon as possible (and hopefully implent it in a balanced way wich is needet)

[docterj208]

one thing you can do to balance in the offensive aura is to make it so you have to apply the orb before others can use it. This makes it so you have to be in the front lines as a melee attacker. However, I would also reduce team benefit to maybe 50% of current stack.

[valiance]

I like the first skill, the theme and the ult (which has some aspects of a skill I came up with independently lol)

I think the adjustable aura needs work. I like the idea but I'm opposed to adjustables/double skills generally and prefer the offensive half of this to the defensive half--but I can see how adjustable would require the toggle :/

The Grasp seems a bit OP compared to fissure or related skills.

P.S. Give the hero in my sig a crit if you get the chance

[PhoenixAshes]

like the concept! i like the idea of stat growth also. Having more str gain than int gain even though hes int primary, you dont see that very often.

~first skill: like the idea of it, very interesting and unique. However, i just want you to clarify what "moving towards" the hot spot means. Does it mean, only if you are directly running to that spot, or like on a 180 degree angle of moving towards it, so its either you are moving towards it, or away from it. Like, if i were to run parallel with top lane while in the top forest and the hot spot is in the top lane trying to gank someone, will i get the movement speed bonus because im running at an angle instead of a straight line directly towards the hot spot. can you clarify the range of the orientation that you have to be in order to get the movement speed bonus?

~second skill: the passive is very interesting since you can switch between offense and defense, however 1.5 seconds is way to short. If you were chasing someone with offensive, it will never stack. I suggest possibly 3 seconds long. And does the damage bonus only work for the hero that attacked him? for instance, if 2 heroes attack an enemy, ahero ally X does an attack, and then hero ally Y does an attack. Does hero ally Y get bonus damage from the stacks, or does it stack individually based on the source of damage?

~skill three: i must say, good idea and all, but it just doesnt make sense in the way it is created and the numbers are a little messed up (mainly range). So what i mean by the way it is created is the oreintation of how its put out on the battlefiled. You say its like behemoths fissure, so that means it has a range of 700, and then 600 on top of that? or is it a 700 range with a 600 WIDTH distance which is perpindicular to the orientation that your hero was facing when you started the spell? similar to like dota' Dark Seer's ult?

~ult: I dont understand how the armor bonus works... By reading a different post that someone had a comment on the same idea.. then i sort of understand it, but it has an extremely high armor bonus for the missing hit points. the armor bonus should also be by an integer rather than multiplied by decimals. So if he has 500 hit points missing, 500/300 = 1.6 so instead of getting an armor bonus of 1.6*9 armor bonus, it should be only the whole number (no decimals) that its divisible by so it would be 1*9 armor bonus. i think that the amount of healing should also go up, 15% is so extremely low that its nearly like 1 hit of damage, very unnoticeable.

other than those few questions and ideas, i like the concept of this hero but with a few tweaks here and there it would be ready.

[Sordak]

first of all no you wont need to directly moove in a straight line. yess you should be able to run in an angle. yess its pretty hard to balance out what is actually TOWARDS that spot.

No the stacks count for the whole team thats why doc consideres it as OP. Indeed its very strong when he teams up with Madman or scout the damage would be indeed insane.

i said it WORKS like it not that the mechanics are like it. its placed exactly the same way as Darkseers ultimate. i stated it alo tof times in this thread.

the problem with the ult is that its very hard to write down how exactly the armor works. i think it just needs to be codet right and never again talked about it =D like the first skill there might be a huge variasion wich is bad but very hard to discribe the whole thing.
I think the heal is nice since you get the percentage of ALL enemy heroes around and ALL firendly heroes around get the heal. keep in mind the heal is not SPLIT between them but ALL of them get it so it might be realy strong!

anyway thanks for the feedback

[PhoenixAshes]

I think the heal is nice since you get the percentage of ALL enemy heroes around and ALL firendly heroes around get the heal. keep in mind the heal is not SPLIT between them but ALL of them get it so it might be realy strong!


I dont understand what you mean by ALL enemy heroes, i understand it heals your allies individually, but what does it got to do with the enemy heroes? while trying to understand what you meant by it, i came up with a possible idea, make the percentage heal lower to about 10% but then it heals for 10% more for each enemy in the aoe when you activate it. The percentage healed is the amount that the person is missing, so if someone is at 1000/3000 hit points, and you activate your ult say with 4 enemies around, it will heal 10% + 10%*(4 enemy heroes) to a total heal of 50% of health missing. Since the ally is missing 2000 hitpoints, he is healed for 1000 hitpoints, and then gets armor bonus after with respect to your second effect of your ult. Seems a little powerful the way i proposed, but i was just playing with an idea that popped in my head while trying to understand what you meant in your quote.

[Sordak]

the heal is based on damage enemy heroes taken. This refers only to heroes that are into the AoE.
Thats the whole secret =)

besides if you would be healed like 50% there would be basicaly no (or nearly no) armor bonus. but yess the ultimate is pretty strong but 10% decrease would be a bit high

[valiance]

HIDEOUS ORDER

I see this as a skill that increases its power based on your proximity to it, the way an electric field or magnetic field decreases proportional to the radius squared.
Therefore I would buff the speed boost for heroes but make it increase incrementally the closer the hero is to the spot. So as heroes move towards the targeted spot they get faster and faster, rather than simply gaining a static movement speed buff within 1000 range.
I'd also increase the range to global or at least to a large radius (when using the ground version) so that it can serve as a form of team wide mobility (especially useful on a team without boots of travel.
Lastly I'd increase both the duration and the cooldown of the Hideous Order, and set a maximum of one order on the ground and one order on an enemy at a time. Perhaps I'd even give them separate skill icons like Soulstealer's Demon Hand so they can have separate cooldowns. That's a bit unwieldy though. Perhaps your smaller range version is superior. I was imagining a global rally point and I really like that functionality but not sure how well it fits with the second part of the skill

I'd give the Hero targeting component of Hideous Order a reveal as well as buffing its duration to 5 seconds (or more) and its casting range. Right now this section of the skill is inferior to Hellflower in every way, I think that means it needs a buff.

ADJUSTABLE TACTICS

I'm not a huge fan of 2 skills in one, even though i suggested one earlier and this is actually a toggle. I do like toggles since they promote player control and skill with a hero, but they also increase complexity, which I find is often a result of incomplete ideas (not suggesting this is the case here).

Not sure why the numbers on the damage reduction of the defensive version of this skill are one higher than the numbers on the damage for the offensive version. Any good reason?

The toggle fits the name, and promotes player skill, but I see no reason the two skills couldn't be combined into one aura. I just don't see the need to be switching this on and off. I don't think the skill is powerful enough, or the effects different enough when toggled, to require that. I can see why this toggles but it irks me for some reason.

GRASP OF HADES

I'd compare this to Pit Lord's Pit over Fissure. This has a longer cd and higher mana cost compared to Pit of Malice but the same immobilize duration. On the plus side it does DoT.
I'd change this DoT to do the same amount of damage over 3 seconds. I think its less confusing if the DoT ends when the hold does, and I see no reason this skill would poison or have a delay like Demented Shaman's entangle or Slither's toxic spray.
Very powerful sort of bread and butter type skill. It's like Pit of Malice + a DoT in a line shape instead of in a circle shape. Sort of less inventive than the last 2 skills tbh, but its solid and would be very very effective.

DARK TRIUMPH

The inverse relationship between armor and healing is cool, but I don't see why its in there. Perhaps needless complexity that can be removed?

I might also make the armor buff (if you keep it) based on % of life left unhealed rather than a flat +9 armor per 300 life.

The skill also seems like it would need a buff. Maybe not though. A team AOE heal could be very powerful. Can I get a sample explanation and some numbers?

edit: still working on this crit but gotta run for now, hope this is helpful and better than before

[Sordak]

Thank you for the good edit of your post. great feedback here.

I have some statements to make about your ideas on the first skill. Reducing the cast range wont fit its role. its meant to command your team and reward them for following you, you are a commander so your troops need to obey you. Thats the way it should work. this goes right before the initiation and the MS buff is invisible for enemies wich makes it great to quickly get into a gank. I dont think it would be good to make you rhero faster when closer to it because that would somehow take out the secondary escape role of it.
The beauty about this skill is that it couldnt be done in WC 3 engine, but yess S2 has to be pretty inventive with this one to get it to work like i want it to =D
Oh yeah and the single target, well i know it seems a bit weak but in combination with the Offensive aura damage heroes like madman could do is just INSANE so im thinking about nerfing this combo.

I see your concerns about my second skill but there are good reasons for it. First the offensive aura is very close to ursa besides the fact its an Aura. its very strong in late game and make a strong carry into something extremly insane without even doing any active skills. besides that its build around focus fire.
So why the defensive skill has higher numbers is because you cant coordinate your team to attack the target you want to. it basicaly helps you SLIGHTLY against beeing focus fired. But its not realy usefull if you arent focus fired or hit with high attack speed since the stacks go away very fast.
I think that justifies the increased stats on the defensive tactic.

The third skill. yess you are right pretty much. seems like the thing with the "DoT " is messed a bit i wanted it to damage you only while you were hold. that comes from my interpretion how this skills work. i wanted it to be a wall of zombies that tear you apart while Tyrando (it was his Idea so yess it doesnt fits his theme that much but its usefull in gameplay and Tyrando is good at that) wanted it to be a scar on the ground and some bone hand comes and holds the enemy.

But i still may change this skill. if you look at the changelogs you see i had various other skill tryes. Rally Call was my fav skill but it was just too overpowered wich is sad. MAybe ill come up with something more original.

for the ult i have to tell you the armor buff was just because the skill felt so useless if you are actualy NOT winning a battle. why would you want to heal yourself AFTER a battle? (well there aret housands of reasons for that but not for a Commander themed hero) so we decidet to change it like this so this skill has alot more purposes. i might change it slightly in order to make it a bit more creative.

[valiance]

Thank you for the good edit of your post. great feedback here.

I have some statements to make about your ideas on the first skill. Reducing the cast range wont fit its role. its meant to command your team and reward them for following you, you are a commander so your troops need to obey you. Thats the way it should work. this goes right before the initiation and the MS buff is invisible for enemies wich makes it great to quickly get into a gank. I dont think it would be good to make you rhero faster when closer to it because that would somehow take out the secondary escape role of it.
The beauty about this skill is that it couldnt be done in WC 3 engine, but yess S2 has to be pretty inventive with this one to get it to work like i want it to =D


Well I wanted the effective range to change, not the cast range. I think if you do it that way it can be a balanced version of Rally Call. a global movement buff that increases as they get closer to the ping point. And if you need to retreat just cast another one back at base.



Oh yeah and the single target, well i know it seems a bit weak but in combination with the Offensive aura damage heroes like madman could do is just INSANE so im thinking about nerfing this combo.


Fair enough.



I see your concerns about my second skill but there are good reasons for it. First the offensive aura is very close to ursa besides the fact its an Aura. its very strong in late game and make a strong carry into something extremly insane without even doing any active skills. besides that its build around focus fire.
So why the defensive skill has higher numbers is because you cant coordinate your team to attack the target you want to. it basicaly helps you SLIGHTLY against beeing focus fired. But its not realy usefull if you arent focus fired or hit with high attack speed since the stacks go away very fast.
I think that justifies the increased stats on the defensive tactic.


Something still feels off about it but I can't pinpoint it. Maybe I feel such a powerful skill should be active or need a component of player skill. Dunno have to think on it some more. Good explanation though.




The third skill. yess you are right pretty much. seems like the thing with the "DoT " is messed a bit i wanted it to damage you only while you were hold. that comes from my interpretion how this skills work. i wanted it to be a wall of zombies that tear you apart while Tyrando (it was his Idea so yess it doesnt fits his theme that much but its usefull in gameplay and Tyrando is good at that) wanted it to be a scar on the ground and some bone hand comes and holds the enemy.


It's a good skill. Bland but it'd be very effective.



But i still may change this skill. if you look at the changelogs you see i had various other skill tryes. Rally Call was my fav skill but it was just too overpowered wich is sad. MAybe ill come up with something more original.


Maybe make the new 3rd skill another kind of tactic/command skill. Something that needs skill to use. Then again with 2 tactics already maybe he needs a normal skill thats a nuke or disable. Dunno gotta see what you come up with..



for the ult i have to tell you the armor buff was just because the skill felt so useless if you are actualy NOT winning a battle. why would you want to heal yourself AFTER a battle? (well there aret housands of reasons for that but not for a Commander themed hero) so we decidet to change it like this so this skill has alot more purposes. i might change it slightly in order to make it a bit more creative.

This makes sense. I think maybe the ult needs some rebalancing then.

The theme makes the hero seem synergistic but I'm not seeing much synergy within the skills. Maybe the new 3rd skill and a reworked ult would fit better together.

Glad my crit helped. Interested to see what you come up with... :D

[Rusork]

The aura seems kind of excessive.
Too good at early-mid game. Still good at late game. The deffensive one can just **** up almost any carry's carrying, gives you a lot of time to actually kill the bastard. And you can even trap him, keep him revealed for a while. You can even increase all the damage it receives when you alredy have him controlled and pollywog is holding him. Maybe find a way to make it not as anyi-carry. For the rest, it's a fine support. I like him, T-Up.

[codion24]

"The vile Commander commands his Troops with pure evil lying in his words."

uGh first skill.. it's like tricking your allies to do bad things by commanding them?

actually being at the hellbourne side is a bad thing from the start.

and how come anyone would want to be mind controlled by that freaking first skill. lol

[Strider]

Ok the names are not that great for skills and maaaybe sound a tad cliche but in general I like the idea of this hero, thumbs-up.