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Lemons
07-30-2011, 09:21 PM
What items to start and what should the build be?

AYOFORYAYO`
07-30-2011, 09:27 PM
Panda happens to be my favorite hero. Item wise, chalice, phase boots, helm of legion ,shrunken, rifts. If u got more questions ill help ya

Lemons
07-30-2011, 10:03 PM
can you tell me what his starting items would be and what skill to level up each time?

AYOFORYAYO`
07-30-2011, 10:28 PM
1-flick.2-cannonball.3-flury.4-flury.5-flurry.6-ult. then i max cannonball.

Talak_Hallen
07-30-2011, 11:05 PM
I disagree. You want to stack strength on panda as much as possible. Riftshards offer no synergy with any of his skills.
Shrunken is good advice, as is chalice.

I disagree with phaseboots also. Panda is a very mana dependent hero and the ability to cycle steam boots has saved my life so many times. He also has plenty of slow and disable so chasing isn't necessary for him (who ganks solo anyways?).

I would go steam boots as your first early game item. Start out with a health pot and some runes and maybe a few +1 stat items (typical starting items for any hero really). After that I sometimes go Insanitarius for a big health and damage boost early game (depending on the early game). Then shrunken. After this it is pretty open. Stack a few str bracers if you can't get good farm. A behe heart if you can.

Cannonball or flick first depending on your laning partner (cannonball if you have a solid stunner with you).

After you have one rank in cannonball and flick get two ranks in flurry. Max cannonball first and then flick.

His ult is pretty situational. It might even be worth skipping 'til after your shrunken head if the opposing team has plenty of disables.


In the end, remember... two of his skills work off his BASE DAMAGE... so stack strength items on Panda!

Oaktree
07-30-2011, 11:31 PM
I like chalice/phase/Null/Shrunken really great tank/disabler with decent damage output but by no means a big hard carry with this build.

Lemons
07-30-2011, 11:32 PM
Any tips on how to use his skills effectively?

GhostPants
07-31-2011, 01:22 AM
Any tips on how to use his skills effectively?

Flick first because it reduces physical armour.
Shrunken head can be used while you are using your ulti, it does not cancel the channel.

f0oster
07-31-2011, 02:16 AM
Personally I like to get: phaseboots/shrunken head/nullstone/behemoths heart, add in helm of the black legion and or barrier idol anywhere if you feel its necessary

i more than often get a bottle or chalice early too

it's pretty rare to farm them up in a game though unless the team you're vsing just wont concede or the game has gone for quite a long time

Skull4er
07-31-2011, 07:35 AM
Personally I like to get: phaseboots/shrunken head/nullstone/behemoths heart, add in helm of the black legion and or barrier idol anywhere if you feel its necessary

i more than often get a bottle or chalice early too

it's pretty rare to farm them up in a game though unless the team you're vsing just wont concede or the game has gone for quite a long time
^this, although i prefer to grab a sustainer and ring of the teacher before shrunken head for the manaregen and a sol's bollwerk (negative aura) before the heart.

kingcools
07-31-2011, 09:16 AM
I disagree. You want to stack strength on panda as much as possible. Riftshards offer no synergy with any of his skills.
Shrunken is good advice, as is chalice.

I disagree with phaseboots also. Panda is a very mana dependent hero and the ability to cycle steam boots has saved my life so many times. He also has plenty of slow and disable so chasing isn't necessary for him (who ganks solo anyways?).

Do NOT Buy steamboots on panda.

KalurO
07-31-2011, 02:20 PM
In the end, remember... two of his skills work off his BASE DAMAGE... so stack strength items on Panda!

Skills work off all of his damage, base damage does counts extra.
If you get a doom bringer, your flurry and ult will do +250 damage.
If you get +10 strength, your flurry will get +11.5 / +12.5 / +13.5 / +14.5 damage.

If you get a doombringer, your ultimate will do +250 damage per smash.
If you get +10 strength, your ultimate will do +13 +17 +21 damage.

So regular damage does count, base damage just counts extra.
So it's often still a great idea to get +damage items.

Also, Crit % works on both flurry and his ultimate.


I disagree. You want to stack strength on panda as much as possible. Riftshards offer no synergy with any of his skills.


Riftshards give each flurry or each ultimate hit +45/55/65/75 Damage.
Riftshards give each flurry or each ultimate hit, a 10/13/16/20% Chance for a 1.8/2.0/2.2/2.4x Critical strike.. how is that not synergy?!





I would go steam boots as your first early game item.
!

Steamboots give his flurry +11.5 +12.5 +13.5 +14.5 damage.
Ghost marchers give his flurry +24 damage at all levels.

Steamboots give his ultimate +13 +17 +21 damage.
Ghost Marchers give his ultimate +24 damage at all levels.

It's also great for positioning/chasing/escaping. I'm not sure why you'd ever go steamboots on panda.

Aarjente
07-31-2011, 02:36 PM
Don't forget that attack modifiers count too. I used to see frostburn on panda a lot before it was nerfed ages ago.

Lemons
07-31-2011, 02:56 PM
What do you guys think are his core items?

KalurO
07-31-2011, 03:14 PM
What do you guys think are his core items?

It's situational.

Ragels
07-31-2011, 04:23 PM
Steamboots, Chalice and/or Power Supply, Shrunken. That's just about all he really needs, everything else is luxury. You'd probably just want to go survivability.

OhBob
07-31-2011, 04:56 PM
Start with stats, get a supply and chalice, then go steamboots/ghost marchers (your skills only increase damage that come from strength, not from general damage), HotBL, Portal key, shrunken head.

For luxury,
Idol, Sol's Bulwark (may or not go for breastplate after), Behe heart, mock, nullstone or symbol of rage.

Pestilence likes that build :pest:s2:pand:

:CrushingClaws::ManaPotion::RunesOfTheBlight::Rune sOfTheBlight::MinorTotem::MinorTotem: -> Always carry tps

:chal::IronBuckler::PowerSupply::Steamboots:/:EnhancedMarchers: -> Always carry tps

:chal:/:PowerSupply:(Sell one of those to ghave TPs :Steamboots:/:EnhancedMarchers::HelmOfTheBlackLegio:Portalkey:: ShrunkenHead: -> Always...

Luxury :BarrierIdol::Mock::BehemothsHeart::SolsBulwark:(: DaemonicBreastplate):SymbolOfRage::Nullstone::Doom bringer::Doombringer::Doombringer::Doombringer::Do ombringer::Doombringer::Doombringer:

KalurO
07-31-2011, 07:57 PM
Steamboots, Chalice and/or Power Supply, Shrunken. That's just about all he really needs, everything else is luxury. You'd probably just want to go survivability.

Never go steamboots on panda, really.

PrestonLee
07-31-2011, 08:19 PM
Panda with Steamboots = free feed, kited all day. good luck trying to ult anyone you can't even get near. he can cannonball in and then start ulting someone in a team fight, but then what? he'll get kited down and die after killing at most one target.

Phase is a must for the mobility, going into team fights, setting up ganks, during fights for phasing through targets, and for chasing.

I personally like:
:Marchers: :Lifetube: (:RingOfTheTeacher: :chal: :PowerSupply:) :EnhancedMarchers: :HelmOfTheBlackLegio :ShrunkenHead: Core build, then situational pickups (:Insanitarius: :Portalkey: :SymbolOfRage: :SolsBulwark: :DaemonicBreastplate :FrostwolfsSkull:, hell even :FrostfieldPlate: :KuldrasSheepstick: :Puzzlebox: if the situation calls for it), somewhere along the way disassembling :HelmOfTheBlackLegio into :BehemothsHeart:+:Nullstone:. Last pickup can be :SavageMace: :Shieldbreaker: or :Riftshards: if the damage steroid is needed, but it's not usually a priority as his damage is usually enough already, and strength items give him damage along with more survivability.

AYOFORYAYO`
07-31-2011, 08:37 PM
Look. Phase Boots/CHALICE/SHRUNKEN are a MUST. Those are your core items. Don't max your cannonball before flurry because it's EASY TO DODGE and HARDER TO HIT. Max flurry, then cannonball before flick. I ALWAYS get my ult at 6 Because I can run around SOLOING other low Hp carries when they're farming ALONE.

How I fight with panda: FLICK. flurry (1 or 2), cannonball AS THEY RUN AWAY. flurry AGAIN.

OhBob
08-01-2011, 12:47 AM
Get Portal Key.

Tenacious
08-01-2011, 07:58 AM
Skills work off all of his damage, base damage does counts extra.
If you get a doom bringer, your flurry and ult will do +250 damage.
If you get +10 strength, your flurry will get +11.5 / +12.5 / +13.5 / +14.5 damage.

If you get a doombringer, your ultimate will do +250 damage per smash.
If you get +10 strength, your ultimate will do +13 +17 +21 damage.

So regular damage does count, base damage just counts extra.
So it's often still a great idea to get +damage items.

Also, Crit % works on both flurry and his ultimate.



Riftshards give each flurry or each ultimate hit +45/55/65/75 Damage.
Riftshards give each flurry or each ultimate hit, a 10/13/16/20% Chance for a 1.8/2.0/2.2/2.4x Critical strike.. how is that not synergy?!





Steamboots give his flurry +11.5 +12.5 +13.5 +14.5 damage.
Ghost marchers give his flurry +24 damage at all levels.

Steamboots give his ultimate +13 +17 +21 damage.
Ghost Marchers give his ultimate +24 damage at all levels.

It's also great for positioning/chasing/escaping. I'm not sure why you'd ever go steamboots on panda.

Panda only synergizes with BASE dmg, which comes from STRENGTH. Direct dmg doesn't do **** to his ult / flurry..

BiGFaTE
08-01-2011, 08:18 AM
Panda only synergizes with BASE dmg, which comes from STRENGTH. Direct dmg doesn't do **** to his ult / flurry..
No, flurry and his ult deal your normal autoattack damage+a % of your base damage.

As far as skill builds it's really up to you. 1 into flick and maxxing flurry and cannon ball works. You can max either flurry or cannon ball before the other. You can also skill flick and cannon ball, the -armor on flick makes cannon ball hit extremely hard. In general it is hard to cannon ball someone unless you flick them first.

Core is phase boots, chalice, power supply, optional bracers.

Then consider going for sol's bulwark, hotbl, null stone, bkb, or insanitarius depending on the enemy team. blink is also an option if you feel like you're hard enough to kill.

late game, heart or demonic

riftshards is silly because flurry can't crit. all attack modifiers are bad because they don't work with flurry.

I personally build insanitarius on him almost every game. if you use it well it's a ton of survivability and it lets him combo anyone on the map without his ult

Papilla
08-01-2011, 09:46 AM
What do you guys think are his core items?

Shrunken, phase boots, insanitarious.

maGastEr
08-02-2011, 03:38 AM
play him as initiator, dont get damage, -armor, frostburn on him. he gotta stay as much as possible in the battle.
the best items i find for him are bottle/phase boots, after that rush shrunken. then nullstone for mana regen, stats and the single target spell block. by now you have enough str and mana regen to use flurry as much as possible. quite often you can kill 2-3 enemies with another flurry or cannonball. after that, heart for huge damage while in ulti.

Boltzen
08-02-2011, 04:13 AM
Items: Chalice, Shrunken, Shieldbreaker, Behemoths Heart and phase boots.

Magiks
08-02-2011, 04:28 AM
so much bad info in this thread >_>

items: phaseboots, nullstone, shrunken, sol's -> daemonic -> heart

skills: cball,flick,flurry,flurry,flurry,ulti,flurry,flick ,flick,flick,ulti,cball

why?

cannon ball is a 1-point wonder early on because it already stuns for 1.5 seconds @ lvl1.

flick is taken over it because it reduces physical armor... and after all you are a physical dmg hero only.

flurry is great and can be spammed with nullstone to kill creep waves fast.

Quentie
08-02-2011, 05:07 AM
I would go steam boots as your first early game item.


:scou:Ohrly? not only this slows(:FrostwolfsSkull:) :pand: down and makes him able to do nothing besides initating with cannonball before a teamfight. ITS A MUST with :EnhancedMarchers: since :pand: will easily get reaaally kited. :)

prebz89
08-03-2011, 03:49 PM
Chalice, ghost marchers, (power supply), Shrunken if facing disables, otherwise insaintarious, then heart, then null. If you haven't won already, get frostburn. (great synergy with his skillset.)

As for skills: 1. cannonball, flick, flurry,flurry,flurry, ulti, flurry, flick, cannon,cannon, ,cannon, flick, flick, flick, ulti, ulti.

Pwnograhpy
08-03-2011, 05:34 PM
Skill set can be situational, as a general you grab one level of flick at lv1 or lv2 then max your flurry and cannonball, I like alternate between the two and max flurry after 6.

Items also fairly situational and +damage adds the raw +damage to your flurrys and ultimate but will not add any bonus % damage, that comes from strength damage.
You can go steams if you want but only if you're absolutely confident, I recommend phase all the way, lets you actually run in and flick while adding nice early game damage as a bonus. Early game mana regen is up to you I personally like bottle more than chalice but it's a personal preference thing, you could also get powersupply. If you have a bad early game, stack 1-3 bracers. Insanitarious is extremely good damage to cost ratio damage department item if you can farm it early and are confident you won't get cced immediately. Otherwise normally grab Shrunken head if they have even one competent magic based stunner. If they have a superior magic or physical single target cc, grab a Nullstone after or before whichever seems more suitable. After you can really just build into str like heart, SoR or frostwolf skull, etc. or raw damage output like savage, rifts, shieldbreaker. I haven't played a lot recently so I don't know how Sol's really fits into the picture but it looks like an extremely good item to me at some point on Panda.

Skill chaining, you'd usually want to flick for -armor and to help line up the rest of your abilities while still getting into melee range, depending on the skill level YOU have to guess where they are going to walk into with your cannonball unless you're like a goku with your hands to chain flick into cannonball that they have no chance of running at all, this is assuming you only have a level 1 flick, by level 4 you can just aim where ever they end up getting flicked to with cannon. I personally do Flick -> Cannon -> Flurry -> Ulti as my chain cc kill combo but I've seen Cannons, into flicks and flurrys or flicks into flurrys and cannons, really just depends on the situation, play style and ability to land the skill shots and aim your flurry properly.

Nyandex
08-04-2011, 07:05 AM
I like chalice/phase/Null/Shrunken really great tank/disabler with decent damage output but by no means a big hard carry with this build.
You can work your way into being a carry through this build, though. Just grab a heart afterwards or something.

Neru
08-04-2011, 07:14 AM
I always get level 1 flick, then cannonball, flurry and max cannonball for level 7.

Why? Because Cannonball is the only one of his skills with static damage output, the rest scale amazingly and thus can be picked up later, whilst a late cannonball is almost a waste. I find once you flick cannonball is incredibly easy to hit, if you don't queue it and wait to see which way they will run for a split second.

Undutchable
08-04-2011, 07:28 AM
I'll solve this for you:

At level 7 you want to have 4/1/1/1
You can either take flick first or cannonball, depends on lane setups. I prefer flick because it slows, puts them in an awkward position and lowers armor. But cannonball gives you an aoe stun and an escape. So switch the 1st and 2nd if you like:
2/3/1/1/1/4/1/3/3/3/2/2/2/4/stats/4
Why? Because your ult is mostly a disable in early levels, and the damage isn't that great. You rather have flick and/or cannonball earlier then a bit more damage.

Item build:

Chalice+RotT+Ghost Marchers -> Sustainer -> SH -> Nullstone -> Sol's

teabaggedd
07-12-2012, 06:27 PM
Phase boots are important to get in there. You have to get shrunken as well. Sometimes blink is important with shrunken to lock down one guy

Ackwell1
07-14-2012, 07:59 AM
Skill build what I use: stun,flick,stun,flick,stun,ult,stun,flick,flick,fl urrys I like to max cannonball with flick, because at lvl 6 you can combo anyone, I mean ANYONE in the map with flick, stun and ult. Also I dont like maxing end game steroids early to a carry.

Items what I usually get are shield, 3 totems, hp pot, blights->I go mid always with panda so I get bottle->then ghostmarchers and psupply->nullstone if needed (usually needed)-> bkb->daemonic->behe

Chronomical`
07-22-2012, 02:16 AM
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroesguide_view.php?gid=54399 91% people like my guide, not hard to play, build for your situation.

Wolfoy
07-22-2012, 09:35 AM
I use Bot's build. Which is similar to the one above me, almost identical.

My starting items: Shield, Tangos, Health Potion, 2x Totems, Mana Potion
Laning: Sustainer, Phase boots, Mighty Blade for BKB
Core: Null, BKB
Luxury: Demonic, then Heart.

The logic in this build is, the shield reduces harassment, while you have enough regen that after a gank or two you can still have full hp and mana. After you get a sustainer you pretty much never need to go to base for regen. The mighty blade comes first for more HP and base damage. Generally, you want to go for the dual item pair of BKB and Nullstone, and I build both at the same time. Which one I finish first depends on how much farm I have. If I have a ton of farm, I'll get the Blessed Orb and finish Nullstone. If not, I'll get the BKB.

After you get a nullstone and bkb, you're flurry hits MAD hard. Ridiculously strong hard. Insanely powerful hard. So use it to flash farm pretty much anything and you're GPM should be through the roof to get you demonic or heart.

RikiP
07-22-2012, 03:58 PM
defense panda is the only way to go.

i'm talking nullstone, shrunken, heart, and daemonic.

give me 4 items that would beat that. panda is the only hero that can go 100% defense and completely benefit.

best skill build is:

one flick, one cannonball, 3 flurry, ult

from there, you can get whatever. it's debatable which is best, and trying to argue a best skill order after that is simply dumb.

Ackwell1
07-22-2012, 05:58 PM
defense panda is the only way to go.

i'm talking nullstone, shrunken, heart, and daemonic.

give me 4 items that would beat that. panda is the only hero that can go 100% defense and completely benefit.

best skill build is:

one flick, one cannonball, 3 flurry, ult

from there, you can get whatever. it's debatable which is best, and trying to argue a best skill order after that is simply dumb.
Try cannonball + flick after I once tried it I never went back to early flurrys.

zstarkey42
07-22-2012, 06:18 PM
I usually go :bloodchalice::ghostmarchers: then :solsbulwark::shrunkenhead: as core and :behemothsheart::daemonicbreastplate if it gets late. You may want to rush :shrunkenhead: if the other team is too heavy on disables. I don't find :nullstone: to be that useful on him like many people do. He certainly doesen't need much mana to farm with Flurry and most of those stats are wasted. Also :shrunkenhead: generally does the job better at preventing your ultimate from getting canceled. With this build you have pretty decent damage (due to STR-stacking and his skills scaling on base damage), a huge HP pool and a good chance of landing your full ultimate on someone.

And please don't ever build :runedcleaver: for a hero that already has an easy time farming. The stats are mostly useless for him as well and don't synergize with his skills.

RikiP
07-22-2012, 06:58 PM
yea honestly any skill build works. anything that involves flick at least.

Nobreakz
07-23-2012, 12:30 PM
Okey im going to give you my personal well-working guide on "how to panda"

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroesguide_view.php?gid=72929

Read this one through first so you know what i am commenting on.

First off, you dont really need a hatchet, chalice is good, but if you get power supply and early nullstone, this is pretty much enough, and for 80% of all games it is the route to go.

Build early marchers so you can ensure movementspeed to deal some flurry damage. powersupply & gravelocket[color] for stats and survivability. At level four, when you have leveled 2-1-1-0 you have to check your farm, if you will get ghost marchers quite early, you should continoue maxing flurry for the damage, and if not, max cannonball for the ganking potential.

Thats the early game.

Now a nother item left in the shade: [COLOR=blue] PK
This is a item which only is picked up in 50% of games, and those games are the games where you meet a ranged enemy carry with quite good farm. What you do then is in the farm, you pk to the carry, dust if he has shroud, flick him and go straight on ulti him, then flurry. This should probably kill him. Pk+nullstone synergises well with mana.

When you have your laning items, you have to check if its a nullstone game. If not, you can get a blood chalise + helm (only if you want it) or go straight for shrunken, which is a devestating item. Shrunken Head is the absolute core almost every game.

From this part off you can pick up a LOT of different items. Heart increases his damage through str. bonus, and also gives a HUGE tank potential.

Sols is a great team item, and also increasses your survivability a bit, + your damage. (-4+-8 physical damage = -armour mid-game ;))

[COLOR=red]Shieldbreaker is pure damage, flick gives time for an auto attack, and your ulti will deal tons. I once killed a fat chtulu on flick + 4 flurrys, but its a lot of cash and you want to make sure you never get squishy on panda.

Hellflower, if its that game, you know.

If you have sols, you might want to round it up to a daemonic as your 5th or last item.

If you activate symbol during ulti, it doesnt stop the channeling, and the lifesteal works (in practice atleast.)

Barbed[color] if really needed. [COLOR=green]Genjuro may do the same as pk in some brackets (beneath 1750 i guess)

Savage gives pure damage, just as shieldbreaker.

Yeah, not saying this will work everytime, but they did studies you know, 60% of the time, it works everytime :)

Devastate
07-23-2012, 01:06 PM
Panda happens to be my favorite hero. Item wise, chalice, phase boots, helm of legion ,shrunken, rifts. If u got more questions ill help ya

I disagree, panda is not an Auto Attack carry. You must stack Strength to increase his skills damage, when you have enough of it you can pretty much ulti an enemy carry to death, riftshards offer nothing for panda, except some crits on a slow auto attack.
You should go for Boots, do whatever you like (Steam more damage phase more mobility), shrunken head (str and magic immunity), insanitarius (cheap early damage, really useful) and behe heart (a lot of str).

KingKay
07-23-2012, 04:00 PM
Power Supply, Null, SH/Bulwark. Any other game where I've done differently I've lost. :(

man_guy
07-23-2012, 06:32 PM
You must stack Strength to increase his skills damage, when you have enough of it you can pretty much ulti an enemy carry to death, riftshards offer nothing for panda, except some crits on a slow auto attack.
You should go for Boots, do whatever you like (Steam more damage phase more mobility)Phase gives more flat damage. You get Steam Boots for Chalice / Bottle / etc abuse if you aren't auto attacking much from the +AS.

B4NNH4MM3R
07-23-2012, 07:15 PM
Hopefully this post answers everything worth knowing about panda.

First of all lets look at pandas spells.

1# Flurry; Physical damage, Scales with base damage, immobilizes and charged based.

2# Flick; No damage, Immobilizes target for short duration, slows, -armor.

3# Cannonball; Physical damage, stuns, set amount of damage, ground targeting (Not direct targeting)

4# Face smash(?); Physical damage, stuns, damage scales with base damage, channeling, one target.

As you can see all of pandas damaging spells deal physical damage, and scale with either base damage or armor reduction.
Therefore if you wish to deal any kinds of damage in later stages of the game it is already obvious that you need to buy
items that either increase your base damage or reduce the opponents armor.


HOW DO I SKILL?

There are two different builds to panda that i play by
Flick or cannonball first? Are you laning with someone who has a reliable stun? If so get cannonball first, if not get flick first.
The logic behind this is simple, cannonball is unreliable. Never trick yourself into believing that in your hands nothing is unreliable, it always is. (You should always wait leveling your spell until the laning phase starts, you might need the stun to save a teammate from a lvl 1 gank.)

WHAT DO I MAX FIRST?

As i mentioned earlier cannonball is unreliable, and therefore it should not be maxed.
Flurry is your main source of damage in every situation, get it at level 3 and max it. (If your laning partner is able to deal notable amounts of physical damage one extra point in flick can be useful at level 3, 4 or 5)
After you have maxed flurry, max flick. Flick increases the damage your flurry deals, the damage of your ultimate and the damage of all allied aut attacks on the target.
Cannonball is maxed last as it is an unreliable stun, it is needed early for the stun itself but seeing as it is unreliable it should be maxed last, again dont fool yourself into thinking that it is not unreliable in your hands. (For advanced players it might be worth leveling up cannonball together with flick, if your lane partner has low physical damage output and a reliable stun/slow of his own.)

Get ultimate at 6, 11 and 16.


HOW DO I LANE PANDA?

Panda is an underestimated hero, it can deal immense burst damage in both AoE and singel target, both in early and late game.
Panda is best laned with a partner that has a reliable stun or slow, but stun is better.
Panda needs farm. To function in lategame panda needs farm. Therefore it is smart to lane panda with a hero that can sacrifice its farm so that panda can get more.
Be agressive if possible. Panda has great early game crowd control and burst damage. if your opponent does not have a lane with the same early game crowd control and burst damage you should definitely play agressive. A panda + glacius combo can deal out over 500 damage in seconds as early as level 2.
But keep in mind that to function lategame you need farm. Dont forget to get the lasthits.
If you are facing a lane that also has great crowd control burst (for example Pyromancer + Magmus) it would not be as smart to play agressive. In this case just try to farm the best you can and wait for one of them to step out fo position.
The second someone steps out of position flick them, let your lane partner stun (if no stun try to land the cannonball on the flicked target) then hit your secure cannonball and whack the poor bastard to pieces.


MID/LATEGAME:

Panda is one of the best gankers in the game since you have 3 abilities that slow/stun the enemy. You need to keep your ganks up, but at the same time remember to farm. You need to find a good balance between farming and ganking. The best solution is always to have a Homecomming stone in your inventory. This way you can farm whatever lane you want, if your team decides to push you can just tp and help them, if someone is out of position you can tp and gank and if your teammates are getting ganked you can tp close and help. A teleport is the most powerful item in HoN, and you should always have one, especially as a hero that is a great ganker but at the same time needs farm.

In teamfights try to hit as manny people as possible with your cannonball and your flurry. Especially your flurry.
Flurry deals great damage, and it immobilizes the targets.
Use your ulti to lock down the most important target, but remember to wait for a clear shot. In any semi to high skilled game your ultimate WILL get shut down. Try to count the enemy stuns, there is no point trying to ultimate if they can stun you or if they are saving stuns just so they can shut down your ultimate asap.
Shrunken Head + Nullstone can come in handy here, but remember that your ultimate can still be cancelled if your target is moved. ( By for example a tablet/storm spirit/ andromed/Hook.)


ITEMS;

When it comes to pandas items there are a few different builds.
As a general rule of thumb you should buy items that have properties in this order:
Mobility------->Survivability------>Base damage------>Raw Damage/attack speed.
The reason you get base damage over attack speed and raw damage is because your main source of damage comes from your spells and do only benefit from base damage and not AS/Raw Damage.

GHOST MARCHERS VS. STEAMBOOTS:

Ghost marchers offer great mobility something that is highly needed on panda. On the other hand steamboots offer 10+ strength which will help you increase the damage of both your flurry and ultimate. So therefore my rule of thumb is that if you are going to buy steamboots you will most likely need another item for mobility or a team which offers mobility ( Galvanice, Leap buff, someone has Energizer etc. )

MANAPOOL EARLY:

When playing panda you are going to need something to keep your mana up.
in early game a chalice/Bottle (if mid) + a power supply will do just fine. (But remember to never chalice rush, it sucks, trust me.)
Manaring is a waste of money, you dont need that much mana and it does not grant you annything else. A teammate having it is nice tho.

SURVIVAL AND YOUR ULTIMATE.

Keep in mind that pandas ultimate is a channeling ability and can be interrupted by stuns, immobilizes and spells/items that reposition you.
this beeing said it is important to decide early on if you are going to rely on your flurry or your ultimate. Most people would think that all you need is a shrunken head and your ultimate will be unstoppable. Most people are wrong. Your ultimate will also be interrupted if your target is repositioned. All the enemy team needs to do is buy a tablet, a stormspirit, pick any hero that has the ability to reposition your hero and your ultimate will be worth nothing in a 5v5 teamfight.

What i am trying to say is that if you are playing against people that have some insight in this game there is no point buying a shrunken head only for the sake of your ultimate. (still worth buying if playing against a heave magic damage team of course.)
My point being that against a skilled team shrunken will not guarantee a good ultimate.
But lets say you are playing against people in the 1300-1700 bracket, here shrunken will guarantee you a good 4 second lockdown with immense damage.

Nullstone: an item worth mentioning for panda. I consider it one of the perfect items for panda if you can grab it early on. It provides good mana regen, a big enough mana pool for the rest of the game, more base damage for flurry and ultimate and of course the effect. If have high enough gpm to get this item before 25 minutes you should get it for sure. (DO NOT BUY IF; You are playing against a team with next to zero targeting spells and they are not getting a flower/sheep, If you are playing against a team like tb+arma which will make the effect worthless)

Good survival items for panda are:

NULLSTONE: Read above.
SHRUNKEN HEAD: Grants survival, and base damage at the same time. Buy if needed against magic heavy heroes
BEHEMOTHS HEART: Survival and damage in the same item, what more is there to say.
BULWARK: boosts your damage, and can protect your entire team if need be. More on the damage aspect of bulwark further down.
DAEMONIC: It is only worth upgrading to daemonic if you need both the armor reduction and the positive armor buff. It is a waste of gold if the enemy team is not ehavy on physical damage.

MOBILITY:

On panda you need mobility and if you chose to buy steamboots you are gonna need it even more. Here are some items that work nicely on panda that grants mobility.
PORTAL KEY: The king of mobility tools. This can be a godly tool in the hands of a panda, but it is hard to execute propperly. Dont bother buying this if you are unfamiliar with the hero and its movements.
TABLET OF COMMAND: This might seem like a joke to some on panda, but it offers great mobility, but keep in mind it does not grant great stats for panda other than the mana pool, so if your getting this item you better have enough gpm to get something for surviving/dmg fast after this.
FROSTBURN: This item grants you movement speed and base damage. Personaly i prefer other items over this, but a frostburn can be a nice pickup for the mobility and strength. Shieldbreaker is a better orb effect for damage unless the enemy team has 20+ armor from hero abilities. (Do the math)
ENERGIZER: I almost never ever buy this item. The only exception being if i am at really really low gpm. If you got screwed early game and your farm is ****. This item gives you nice mobility and decent stats. The only reason to buy this is that it comes in pieces with a low price. if you are getting your **** pushed in and you cant farm, it is an easy mobility item to get. (DO NOT BUY IF: if you have good farm, you can get better mobility items that offer more for your money.)

DAMAGE:

For damage there are a couple of items you should look into.
BULWARK: Grants -4 armor to enemies. If noone else on your team is buying it you should get this for sure. (DO NOT BUY IF: This item is not worth picking up for the negative armor if the enemy team has heroes that will bring their armor above 20. Do the math. below 10 a -4 armor removes 10-20% physical damage reduction, but above 20 it only removes 5-10% physical damage reduction, above 30 even less. Might still be useful for the positive armor buff if against phys heavy team.
SHIELDBREAKER: Shieldbreaker is another armor reducing item that may greant you immense damage, the debuff gets applied with flurry which makes it even more useful. But keep in mind that this item does not grant anything but pure damage. (DO NOT BUY IF: same as for a bulwark for - armor porperties.)

BASE DAMAGE ITEMS:

Anny items that grant you strength are good for increasing your base damage, here are the ones worth noting.
SHRUKEN HEAD: Grants magic immunity, Strength, and a bit right click damage. Definitely worth picking up against a magic team. DMG+SURVIVAL in one item
NULLSTONE: A perfect all around item for panda, grants you a bit of everything, and base damage ontop. DMG+SURVIVAL in one item
BEHEMOTHS HEART: Grants you a whopping amount strength and sruvivability. DMG+SURVIVAL in one item
INSANITARIUS: Grants immense damage for strength heroes, but be carefull might be your doom against a heave crowd control team.
FROSTBURN: A decent source of base damage, But shieldbreaker is a better damage output item unless you are against heavy armor team (Pr+keeper+hammer type team.)
STEAMBOOTS: Grants strength, but decreases mobility compared to ghost marchers.

RIGHT CLICK DAMAGE:

SHIELDBREAKER: This is the item that will give you the most bang for your buck unless you are against a heavy armor team.
SAVAGE MACE: Worth noticing as a luxury lategame item. will grant your flurry and ultimate true strike if you are playing against zephyr/wingbow. (DO NOT RUSH THIS)
RIFTSHARDS: Riftshards grants you nice right click damage, but it is defnietly not worth rushing as survival, base damage and mobility items comes first. (DO NOT RUSH)


I hope this answered everything you wanted to know about panda. Im adding this post to the training grounds aswel as a hero guide. If you liked this post and want me to do posts on other heroes send me a PM with the hero or topic you would like me to cover.

BagInABox.

Ackwell1
07-23-2012, 11:22 PM
^I have to correct you :)
1.Cannon ball isnt unreliable with flick as long as you flick first you can hit guaranteed cannon ball. Ok maybe not on mb hag other blinkers/pseudo blinkers..
2.Cannon ball always lvl 1, its your stun and escape mechanism. You wont need lvl 1 flick at lvl 1 for anything.
3.Flurry scales with attack damage too, its your auto attack damage + some percentage of your base dmg (60% if i remember correct)
4.Going mid with panda isnt a bad option. He can push lane before runes, can gank with runes, can instakill at lvl 6
5.frostburn is a no no for panda, dunno why you even mentioned it

Just something with a quick look.

TheFatality
07-25-2012, 12:46 PM
I tend to like Nullstone, Shieldbreaker and either a Daemonic or Shrunken Head. But that's just me. :)

Jenova26
07-25-2012, 02:10 PM
Phase Boots > Ring of Sorcery > Helm > Shrunken/Shieldbreaker/Nullstone (depends on the game)

Cannonball > Flick > Flick > Cannonball > Cannonball > Ult > Cannonball > Flurry > Flurry > Flurry > Ult > Flurry