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Cesious
10-11-2009, 05:01 AM
Do not down vote on numbers or theme alone, they can be tweaked, vote only on the concept of the hero.
If you plan to down vote, please post your reasoning for it beforehand and read through the topic to see if your issue has been previously resolved or explained.



The Airship

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/7/79/Blackjack.jpg

A creation from the Legion of Man built to provide exploration, scouting and transportation across the wide expanse of the world of Newerth, furthering their conquest. Small but sturdy, the galleon underneath houses an open deck, below that houses living quarters, a large storage space and an arms storage. Above is a large balloon of heated air, cased inside a light metal frame. Fins and propellers placed in important points to assist in the thrust and control of such a contraption. With no weapons of its own, the active crew on duty must be the ones to defend it at all times.

http://www.playdota.com/img/site/hs.gif
Affiliation: Legion

http://www.playdota.com/img/site/strength.jpghttp://www.playdota.com/img/site/agility.jpghttp://www.playdota.com/img/site/intelligence-c.jpg
STR+X | AGI+X | INT+X

http://www.playdota.com/img/site/as.gif
Movement Speed: 310
Attack Range: 300
Attack Damage: 0-0
Armor: 0

Attack Animation: 0/0
Cast Animation: 0/0
Base Attack Time: 0
Missile Speed: 0

http://www.playdota.com/img/site/addinfo.jpg

The Airship is heavily a support hero who is not without several escape mechanisms and a bit of self-sustainability, able to either carry allied heroes safely out of battle or store a nearly dead ally inside to protect them from death from a nearby opponent or even a Thunderbringer's ultimate from across the map. Combined with free flight, albeit at a heavy cost, a team can soar the skies of Newerth and drop into battle against unsuspecting foes.

Due to no normal attack of its own, the Airship starts with its own unique skill that cannot be leveled, Create Glider, among the other 4 that can be leveled up through normal play.

300 attack range for the hero means the Gliders essentially travel to a maximum of 600 distance(Out and back) and gives the hero a total of 600 attack range with the Glider's additional 300.

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Glider Mechanics

Gliders are fast, invulnerable mini-units that fly out from the Airship and do one attack at a target from range before retreating back inside and reloading.

http://www.playdota.com/img/site/as.gif
Movement Speed: 522
Attack Range: 300
Attack Damage: 10-20
Armor: Invulnerable
Magic Armor: Invulnerable

Attack Animation: 0/0
Cast Animation: 0/0
Base Attack Time: 0
Missile Speed: 0

If you select to attack, right click or leave your hero standing, the hero will stay at its "attack" distance away from the nearest acquired enemy and "auto attack" where the Gliders would come out and attack at the nearest random target if none are targeted or selected target and hold is not used. Hold would disable Gliders from coming out of the hero, essential for maximizing the use of Glider Swarm. Attack speed factors into the attack speed of the Gliders themselves. On use of an Assassin's Shroud, Invisibility rune or any other invisibility effect the Gliders will disable unless you click to attack.

Quick sketches of numbers with Air Advancement:
40 damage at level 1, 50 damage at level 7, 200 damage at level 25 with items and stats.

4 Gliders beginning at 10-20 damage each would deal 40-80 damage.
Level 1 Air Advancement and 5 Gliders beginning at 10-20 damage each would deal 60-110 damage due to the stat percentage(4% of 40 = 2).
Level 4 Air Advancement, 8 Gliders and a level 7 hero would deal 15-25 damage each for 120-200 damage total(10% of 50 = 5).
Level 4 Air Advancement, 8 Gliders and a level 25 hero would be 30-40 damage each for 240-320 damage total(10% of 200 = 20).
Level 4 Air Advancement, 12 Gliders(From Anchor's Aweigh) and a level 25 hero would be 30-40 damage each for 360-480 damage total(10% of 200 = 20).

Do note that the damage would be lowered severely through the use of armor, a Buckler, Iron Shield, Helm of the Black Legion, or evasion bonus.

Quick sketches of it in combat:
[H] = Hero
[_] = Empty tile for 100 range
[E] = Enemy
[S] = Selected Enemy

So a single target at 500 range:
[H][_][_][_][_][S]
Your hero would stay still due to no attack of its own, Gliders would fly out for their distance and attack, then fly back inside. The hero would still auto-follow its target if they ran out of range of the Gliders.

In the case of selecting a target:
[H][E][_][S][_][E]
In this case, the Gliders would ignore the enemies on both sides and aim for the one in the middle. Even if the first enemy was attacking the hero the Gliders would pass over to attack.

In the case of an enemy wave, if you were in distance of the melee and ranged creeps:
[H][_][_][E][_][E]
The hero would stay still but the Gliders would auto-acquire a random, closest target and attack. Each time they come back out of the hero they would auto-acquire another random target.
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Free Skill

Create Glider(Q)

Housing no weapons of its own and living in the sky, the crew has grown to understand the air and have created gliders that they can fly for short distances before needing to return to the Airship, carrying their own armaments with them. This skill is only upgraded by the Air Advancement skill and cannot be raised on its own.

Level 1:
Create up to 4 Gliders.

Synergy:
Gliders directly relate to Air Advancement and Anchor's Aweigh for the hero's main source of offense and defense, boosted when allies are inside. Glider Swarm increases its damage and the slow in proportion to the number of Gliders. Highwind allows the hero to get around an enemy hero and chase easily for attacks.

Balance:
With the Gliders having low end damage shrugged off by a buckler or other like item with damage annulment, it can lower the hero's damage severely. Also, evasion would be applied to each separately, potentially impairing the hero worse. All item procs would trigger at their full chance% but have cooldown placed on them to stop Gliders from going off too much. They also have to travel in range to attack targets and travel back for a total of 600 distance at most.

Notes:
The Airship cannot attack by itself, but it can produce Gliders that attack for it. Gliders are counted as counters similar to Zephyr's Cyclones that increase the maximum in proportion to Air Advancement and the number of allies utilizing AA/WBY. As mentioned in the Balance section, damage annulment or evasion is the bane of Gliders.
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Skill 1

Air Advancement(Passive)

Through technology and time the Airship and Gliders can be upgraded and improved upon, providing better control and additional benefits.

Level 1:
Create an additional 1 Glider for a total of 5.
Raises the damage of Gliders by 4% of the Airship's damage.

Level 2:
Create an additional 2 Gliders for a total of 6.
Raises the damage of Gliders by 6% of the Airship's damage.

Level 3:
Create an additional 3 Gliders for a total of 7.
Raises the damage of Gliders by 8% of the Airship's damage.

Level 4:
Create an additional 4 Gliders for a total of 8.
Raises the damage of Gliders by 10% of the Airship's damage.

Synergy:
Gliders directly relate to Air Advancement and Anchor's Aweigh for the hero's main source of offense and defense, boosted when allies are inside. Glider Swarm increases its damage and the slow in proportion to the number of Gliders. Highwind allows the hero to get around an enemy hero and chase easily for attacks.

Balance:
With the Gliders having low end damage shrugged off by a buckler or other like item with damage annulment, it can lower the hero's damage severely. Also, evasion would be applied to each separately, potentially impairing the hero worse.

Notes:
Should be able to raise the damage of the Gliders through the skill based off of the hero's damage, directly relating to damage items and stat boosting items. As mentioned in the Balance section, damage annulment or evasion is the bane of Gliders.
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Skill 2

Glider Swarm(W)

The Airship crew expels all Gliders in formation to strike upon a targeted enemy that poses a threat to their craft, striking in unison with all that they have to cripple severely.

Level 1:
For each Glider on board, deal 15 damage and apply a 2% slow up to a maximum of 24% for 0.5 seconds per Glider.

Level 2:
For each Glider on board, deal 30 damage and apply a 3% slow up to a maximum of 36% for 0.5 seconds per Glider.

Level 3:
For each Glider on board, deal 45 damage and apply a 4% slow up to a maximum of 48% for 0.5 seconds per Glider.

Level 4:
For each Glider on board, deal 60 damage and apply a 5% slow up to a maximum of 60% for 0.5 seconds per Glider.

Mana Cost: 100/120/140/160 mana.
Cooldown: 25 seconds.

Synergy:
With the Gliders from Create Glider and additional Gliders from Air Advancement and Anchor's Aweigh it can be an amazingly high damage nuke(Ultimate capabilities, but needing 3 skills and all allies immobile to reach that strength) with a strong slow. Combined with Highwind and Anchor's Aweigh, it can make a powerful tool for chasing or fleeing. Boosted as long as you have allies inside thanks to Anchor's Aweigh.

Balance:
While the damage can get to high values, 60/120/180/240 to 120/240/360/480 to 180/360/540/720 and a 60% 6 second slow at maximum, it still requires the player to have 3 skills maxed out and requires all allies to be inside of the hero for maximum effect. Requiring all allied heroes inside causes the Airship to be the only target. The cooldown prevents it from being used often at maximum effect in team battles, one use at most normally. Gliders that are out would have to come in before they attack with the skill so the damage isn't always burst.

Notes:
Looking at the Balance section shows insane damage numbers, but the standalone hero would be able to use it for 480 damage and a maximum of 40% slow at most for 4 seconds. If players used teamwork you could make it into the 720 damage nuke for a great opener with the damage and slow on a high DPS or high HP tank hero.
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Skill 3

Anchor's Aweigh(E)

The Airship can land and be docked by nearby ally heroes who can stay on board, the Airship can then proceed to lift off and carry boarded allies along.

Level 1:
Can carry up to 1 ally within the airship.
Allies inside gain 1 health regeneration and 0.5 mana regeneration.
The Airship gains 1 health regeneration, 0.5 mana regeneration and 1 Glider for the number of allies inside.

Level 2:
Can carry up to 2 allies within the airship.
Allies inside gain 2 health regeneration and 1 mana regeneration.
The Airship gains 2 health regeneration, 1 mana regeneration and 1 Glider for the number of allies inside.

Level 3:
Can carry up to 3 allies within the airship.
Allies inside gain 3 health regeneration and 1.5 mana regeneration.
The Airship gains 3 health regeneration, 1.5 mana regeneration and 1 Glider for the number of allies inside.

Level 4:
Can carry up to 4 allies within the airship.
Allies inside gain 4 health regeneration and 2 mana regeneration.
The Airship gains 4 health regeneration, 2 mana regeneration and 1 Glider for the number of allies inside.

Mana Cost: 25 mana.
Cooldown: 0 seconds. Delay of 3/2.5/2/1.5 seconds between Landing and Taking Off.

Synergy:
Gliders directly relate to Create Glider and Air Advancement for the hero's main source of offense and defense, boosted when allies are inside. Glider Swarm increases its damage and the slow in proportion to the number of Gliders when allies are inside. Combined with Highwind, it can make a powerful tool for chasing or fleeing capabilities, able to carry full teams over all terrain to attack or heal quickly and safely from global attack skills. Enough allies can help negate or even out the mana per second from Highwind as well.

Balance:
Landing will disable movement and attacking for the hero, essentially making itself an open target for attacks. Having allies on board, while giving health and mana regeneration and an additional Glider for each ally, would give enemies 1 less target and could result in the hero being the only target by others.

Notes:
The Airship can land, disabling movement and attacks, or take off. Allies cannot be damaged while inside, but can leave by making any move action. The total regeneration for the hero would then be 16 health regeneration and 8 mana regeneration, but requires all teammates inside to function fully.
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Ultimate
Skill 4

Highwind(R)(Toggle)

Able to soar above the ground, trees, cliffs, oceans and clouds themselves, the Airship rises to the occasion and gets a true bird's eye view of the world.

Level 1:
Takes # mana per second, granting unit-walk, terrain-walk, cliff-walk, tree-walk, building-walk and +5% movement speed.
Gives the Airship x1.25 vision range.

Level 2:
Takes # mana per second, granting unit-walk, terrain-walk, cliff-walk, tree-walk, building-walk and +10% movement speed.
Gives the Airship x1.5 vision range.

Level 3:
Takes # mana per second, granting unit-walk, terrain-walk, cliff-walk, tree-walk, building-walk and +15% movement speed.
Gives the Airship x1.75 vision range.

Staff of the Master/Level 4:
Takes # mana per second, granting unit-walk, terrain-walk, cliff-walk, tree-walk, building-walk and +20% movement speed.
Gives the Airship x2 vision range.

Mana Cost: # mana per second.
Cooldown: 0 seconds. Delay of 3/2.5/2/1.5 seconds between activating and deactivating possibly.

Synergy:
The skill allows the hero to get around an enemy hero and chase easily for attacks using the Gliders from Create Glider, Air Advancement and Anchor's Aweigh. Glider Swarm, with or without Anchor's Aweigh, can work with the skill to provide a powerful tool for chasing or fleeing. Combined with Anchor's Aweigh, it can make a powerful tool for chasing or fleeing capabilities, able to carry full teams over all terrain to attack or heal quickly and safely from global attack skills. Enough allies can help negate or even out the mana per second from the skill with the mana regeneration from Anchor's Aweigh as well.

Balance:
While providing limitless flight at increased speeds and a vision range to catch incoming attackers, it comes at a heavy mana per second cost that can take a toll on your mana pool if left on.

Notes:
Using an active toggle with a high mana upkeep, the Airship turns into a full flying unit able to travel over any obstacle or terrain feature while getting an increased movement speed and vision range. Not quite sure on the mana number. I figure no cooldown would let you pop it for short periods or off and on when it comes to a cliff for running at low cost if played right.
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Sordak
10-11-2009, 05:59 AM
kinda like the concept. pretty unique the combination of the third skilla nd the ult could do some insane things.

Cesious
10-11-2009, 04:46 PM
That's just a few sample ideas for skills though. I'm really not sure how the hero would work for attacks since the Gliders should technically be the attack focus for the hero. I'm thinking a cannon shot would be a good normal attack but I don't want it dealing much damage. Though that's forced synergy in itself with the Gliders. I'm still thinking that Legion is the best team for it.

Maybe the Gliders would be units like Scout hang-gliding and using crossbows. And maybe not extra attacks per level but raise their hp/armor/magic armor/speed and lower the cooldown between times they can take off. The Swarm/Barrage idea would need to be a secondary skill of the Gliders most likely or it'd be forced synergy again.

Being able to transport heroes and drop them off wherever combined with high movement speed and large vision with no penalties to where you could move is a nice support effect. Though people would complain if it's passive because it's essentially like Sand Wraith's first skill permanently, and castable would need a sizeable duration or very low cooldown to be useful.

Here's a question, what about dropping normal attacks completely and having the hero start with the ability to bring up Gliders? It'd be an active toggle that doesn't require any skill points and would only be upgraded through either an active or passive skill the hero gets separately. It would make the Gliders the only source of damage and they would get a % bonus based off of the hero's stats and damage. Interesting and new concept. One of the skills could be purely an upgrade to the total number of Gliders and movespeed, attackspeed, cooldown, hp, armor, magic armor and all for the Gliders or that could be a passive effect on the ultimate with a Staff of the Master connected.

Prahl
10-11-2009, 05:44 PM
Make the ultimate a toggle with high mana upkeep rather than a passive. It's too powerful to have constant flight. I think that the dropship role could be interesting but S2 probably wouldn't recognize it as a legitimate role.

Cesious
10-11-2009, 06:38 PM
Constant Flight would be too powerful because it'd be easy to run away or go to places you can't be caught at. A toggle that takes mana over time would be awesome, able to keep it on as long as you want but requiring a large upkeep.

The dropship role could be seen as a legitimate support role we haven't seen. A hero that doesn't actually do damage itself but with mini-units as well as being able to transport allies for team ganks or pushes and such. If players could nuke from inside, that would be insanely hilarious and would actually be balanced somewhat because that means the hero has to take all the damage. Even without that concept, being able to drop a scout and use heightened vision range to spot out heroes for his ultimate would be fun to see.

I'm still curious on the normal attack, would it work to have a hero that does not have full control of his attacking but uses mini units? And for a hero who BEGINS with an active toggle at level 1 that creates the mini units? Should the Gliders be selectable in that you can set control groups to them(ctrl+1, ctrl+2, etc) so you can control them individually for scouting? You would be able to hit multiple enemies around you with the Gliders, but they attack whatever they want unless you right click/A for attack a specific target.

Cesious
10-11-2009, 08:15 PM
I did a huge update to the main post with a LOT of potential changes and updates to the hero. Touching it up into a REAL hero creation.

Cesious
10-12-2009, 01:08 AM
Bump, love some commentary.

Zethos
10-12-2009, 01:16 AM
Two things. One would be, how do gliders work? Do you control them or are they simply your auto attack.

Secondly I'm curious about what happens if you're carrying allies and you die. Do the allies you're carrying take damage?

Interesting idea :)

Cesious
10-12-2009, 01:36 AM
The Gliders would be mini-units inside of the hero itself.

If you select to attack, right click or leave your hero standing, the hero will stay at its "attack" distance away from the enemy and "auto attack" where the Gliders would come out and attack at the selected target or at any target if there is no pre-selected target and hold is not used. Hold would disable Gliders from coming out of the hero.

Quick sketches of it in practice:

[H] = Hero
[_] = Empty tile for 100 range
[E] = Enemy
[S] = Selected Enemy

So a single target at 500 range would be like this:
[H][_][_][_][_][S]

Your hero would stay still due to no attack of its own, Gliders would fly out for their distance and attack, then fly back inside. The hero would still auto-follow its target if they ran out of range of the Gliders.

In the case of selecting a target:
[H][E][_][S][_][E]

In this case, the Gliders would ignore the two enemies on both sides and aim for the one in the middle. Even if the first enemy was attacking the hero the Gliders would pass over to attack.

In the case of an enemy wave, if you were in distance of the melee and ranged creeps:
[H][_][_][E][_][E]

The hero would stay still but the Gliders would auto-acquire a random, closest target and attack. Each time they come back out of the hero they would auto-acquire another random target.

For your second point, I was thinking of some damage being dealt to the heroes which would give reason to make the airship into a tank of sorts at times, but the heroes as of now would be expelled at the location upon death. So being caught in a team gank would be horrible if planned or executed wrong.

Thanks for posting, I love getting feedback because it helps me out more.

Cesious
10-12-2009, 02:59 PM
I wonder if that confusing post scared people away. XD

Blam
10-12-2009, 03:05 PM
No auto attack is a bad concept, but well the gliders could be quite cool. Providing their damage is generously based upon yours (well the bonuses from items atleast) and they deal a fair amount.

Also does the ultimate prevent ranged attacks and spells from those you are carrying? If not that's a bit, insane :P

Also gogo moonqueen, puppet, arachna, pyromancer, airship team. Where the airship has insane tanking items. :P

Any thoughts on what the stats would be yet? (Esp primary attribute, movespeed)

Cesious
10-12-2009, 04:12 PM
The lack of auto-attack isn't exactly a bad concept as the hero would still have an auto-attack through the Gliders, it just wouldn't have your uber 190-200 but instead 40-50 for 4 units for example. The reasoning behind making the production a free skill at level 1 and having a passive skill that increases the hero and Gliders then allows for a shared hotkey. The lack of auto-attack is a new concept, something never before tried yet it could be effective in the end.

The ultimate is the Flight, so it doesn't help the carrying besides being able to fly them off to places. But the 3rd Skill would protect them from damage and spells while inside. While people might think it's overpowered, you have to think that the Airship would be taking the full focus fire from no other units being around. Unless we could disable chasing until you right click or move specifically at the ground outside, auto attacks and spells could force you to jump out of the airship, but it's still a great initiating strategy.

Primary Attribute would be Int most likely as it fits the idea of the technological marvel, would give way for Frostfield Plate and such to be used for the hero. Movespeed would probably be up at 305 or 310 as it should be relatively fast. I'm thinking that the hero should be able to hit that 522 mark as one of the major purposes IS the fast movement. I've also been thinking Gliders could fly out at an increasing range with the passive(Start at 250, go up to 450 and they can have an attack range with their bows to extend it to 550-750 possibly).

Cesious
10-12-2009, 09:04 PM
A lot of cleaning up, I just need to work up some numbers and plug more in, get a few icons to go with things and I've got a pretty straightened out hero concept ready to put into the real suggestions. Eyes are kind of going wonky from being a little tired though.

Cesious
10-13-2009, 01:40 AM
A bit more of work, leaving notes in the notes sections for each skill for possible changes and taking suggestions on numbers.

Distort3d
10-13-2009, 01:47 AM
I like the skills and concept... but not the picture/idea. A zeppelin.... really???

Cesious
10-13-2009, 02:09 AM
Yes, really. What is surprising or bad about it? It does fit into the story as being a technological marvel and the Legion possesses energy shields, futuristic weapons and vehicles already. In the future they would require some types of transportation as the world of Newerth is generally unexplored and something to get across the wide expanses would be helpful, so the idea of a flying source of transportation comes into play in a steampunk and low-tech pattern.

The only other theme idea I could think of would be a flying Hellbourne hero that swallows other Hellbourne inside and transfers them with little winged beasts flying out from it. Overlord from Starcraft? :P

From the guide on the forums about the lore for hero and item creations:
Humans make use of all sorts of weapons--bows, guns, grenades, sentry guns, and even rocket launchers. Keep this in mind when making a human hero--not all humans are restricted to swords and bows. The Scout pulls out electric eyes, after all.

Zethos
10-13-2009, 02:10 AM
Giant Snorlax that can fly, eat ally heroes and regurgitate them... I would so play that hero.

Cesious
10-13-2009, 02:23 AM
Zethos, how did the explanation do for you about the attacks?

Cesious
10-13-2009, 02:26 PM
Bump.

Cesious
10-14-2009, 03:17 AM
Bump.

Cesious
10-14-2009, 11:49 PM
Bump.

Cesious
10-16-2009, 02:28 AM
Bump. Need comments to help me finalize this.

archkyle
10-16-2009, 02:37 AM
i like the idea, gives the team an obvious advantage and once the numbers are a bit clearer i think it can become a very fun hero. he's obviously not a solo hero but still i might give him a bit more utility somewhere.

to be honest your format makes it hard to focus so i didnt read every lvl up. i would suggest using colors that are nice to the eyes

this next to white text can become irritating to look at. at least for me lol

but i give it a yes vote regardless

edit: NO POLL??? lol... guess i dont vote yes

Cesious
10-16-2009, 05:00 AM
Not doing a poll til I finalize the concept and then re-post in the actual suggestions, just testing out the idea here.

Cesious
10-18-2009, 04:01 AM
Bump.

Cesious
10-19-2009, 03:26 PM
Bump, really would like to see some commentary on the Create Glider/Air Improvement skills to see about getting those fixed up, I tweaked the Glider Swarm skill as well to lower damage but keep it competitive.

Cesious
10-21-2009, 10:40 PM
Feel free to comment, I really need to get some nice pictures. Put a bit more work into it. It's really heavily a support hero over being your end be all killer and takes the team play of the game to a new level.

Cesious
11-11-2009, 12:26 AM
Bump.

Benevolence1
11-12-2009, 03:47 AM
CARRIER HAS ARRIVED

Sorry i couldn't resist.

Really the gliders make this a carrier unit from starcraft. exact same attack style.

Maybe have a link to a video of a carrier in SC attacking to explain the mechanics?



I like the idea of the gliders. that 200 damage at lvl 7 might seem OP... but then realise that one 250 gold item can rape that damage. buckler. Yeap. since the gliders are all separate small attacks, this makes them almost like a bunch of creeps. Getting a buckler would make the airships attack suck, thus balancing it. if you don't get a buckler be ready for a world of hurt.


I'm assuming gliders cant be killed (like zephyrs tornadoes you said)? in that case remove the making the gliders skill and just give him 4 off the bat. hes just going to make them at fountain at start anyway. no cost to mana in other words... and they can't be killed. Then whenever he lvls up skill 1 he gets more gliders.


skill 2: wonderful synergy with skill 1. one of the strongest non-ult nukes in the game, but as it's his only real damage dealing nuke i can deal with this. good ks skill, but he doesn't need to do that as a support hero. still having some good damage to be able to turn a fight his way is important. pure support synergy can be too weak sometimes without a bit of dps.


Skill 3: add a timer for setting down to ground and a timer for liftoff. 3/2.5/2/1.5 seconds. During this timer and when the zeppelin is on the ground add some strong physical and magic armor to the ship (to balance its lack of mobility). There should be a risk to setting down and picking up allies. it shouldn't happen in a fraction of a second. This is a powerful saving skill, and should put you under some fire.


Skill 4 (ultimate): like it the way it is.


IMPORTANT. swap skill 3 with your ultimate. a bit of terrain-pathing is not NEARLY as powerful as being able to pick up allies, protect them, AND STILL HAVE YOUR ALLIES BE ABLE TO ATTACK. this is incredibly powerful especially if you build yourself like a tank. this will render AoE teams useless. since this skill is so powerful you need to have it be the ultimate. have it pick up 1/2/3 allies and 4 with staff of the master. IE only full team with staff. You won't need staff most of the time though since you'll prolly have a melee in your team who won't be able to attack form the ship anyway.







Interesting question... can a pebbles inside the ship toss the ship? lulz if he can. extra escape/gank mechanism. Theres prolly so many crazy and game-breaking things you could do with this.

Second interesting question.... channeled ult like glacius/SS. can they cast them while you move? incredibly OP if they can.


Honestly i don't see this making it into the game because of the power of this hero, but i like the concept, so i say go ahead and go through with this. maybe it will spark the devs to make something of their own that's more balanced, but with a similar idea.

Cesious
11-12-2009, 06:35 PM
I wanted the hero to be extremely similar to the carrier in that it's an amazingly unique, yet versatile and useful hero in several forms of play.

Create Glider: I was actually thinking of having them kill-able, but moving at 522 MS with bonus stats from the hero itself, and additional health regen while inside. It would give the hero a little bit more downtime if I gave a small cooldown on the creation of them and give a risk of throwing them out there into massive aoes. If they weren't, then just have them always spawned and keep the low damage on them, then getting the hp/armor/magic armor and such won't matter at all.

Skill 1: Great point, with a Buckler, Helm of the Black Legion, Iron Shield, etc, it really weakens them compared to the average hero because they can't simply bypass it, so it's probably fine as is.

Skill 2: While it gets powerful damage, that does make up for having 2 support abilities and 1 passive. It's also single target rather than an aoe, so it doesn't get higher damage for more players around. And you have to think about having all the gliders alive and if they need to be inside the hero(handled like Zephyr's cyclones).

Skill 3: I was thinking of having a timer on it where it disables the glider attacks and raises armor/magic armor and also a delay while it lands and fires up. So thumbs up to that. Questions though:

What do you think of disabling the Glider attacks for the armor/magic armor? What about not allowing players to attack/cast from inside, but having players increase the glider count temporarily while inside? Could make for some excellent synergy which would push the first and second skills to higher levels. 12 Gliders would be along the damage of an Ultimate for the nuke, but would require the full team to be inside. A great opener then.

Ultimate: I love the ultimate, but I think free movement is too powerful for a normal skill, it's like a toggle-able version of Sand Wraith's nuke.

Benevolence1
11-12-2009, 07:59 PM
due to this heroes lack of offense, i think free movement is fine on a normal skill.

I like the idea of extra gliders for every hero inside. AND extra damage for each glider (10%/20%/30%/40%).


we need to think of how + dmg items will work on this hero. is it split up among all gliders? do only stats work for increasing damage (main stats i guess)?

How do special items with procs/orbs work on him? does SnY have a chance to apply on each single glider hit? or split amongst them? is that even code-able? What about savage mace with the 100 damage ministun proc? Crit procs should be same % on all gliders, but dmg procs need to be split i guess.





this hero is very difficult to design.


like i said, i highly doubt this would even be considered for implementation.

However maybe this will spark off an idea in a devs head about a hero with multiple small attacks.

Cesious
11-12-2009, 08:20 PM
I like a challenge, and people seem to atleast like the idea of the hero in some way, it's interesting, new and fresh while giving a new role that hasn't been explored.

So what I'm looking at now is:

Create Glider: Immune gliders, move at 522 MS out and back into the hero after 1 shot, 10-20 damage. 4 maximum from the start.

Air Advancement: Each level simply adds another counter to the hero which raises the maximum to 8. Each one gets the 4/6/8/10% from the hero's damage, so stacking damage will be beneficial if you want to be a purely attack focused hero and your int would directly affect the damage. You still need to account for items(like the Helm of the Black Legion giving that -20 damage) which can easily nullify damage from a standalone Glider without the extra stats. As detailed, 200 damage would give +20 damage per unit, so against a Helm of the Black Legion you could actually do 0 damage with normal Glider attacks without the added damage bonus.

I haven't thought about how to handle orbs/procs, I've been trying to think of a way, I thought of applying them as a split effect as well. Crit would be easily to handle, the same as standard, but percentage effects such as H&S, Frostwolf Skull, etc are difficult.

Glider Swarm: Same damage as before, raised the maximum slow to work for the extra gliders from AA/WBY. That would also raise the damage to ultimate proportions, but it's at the downfall of all allies being unable to attack or use skills now. 720 max damage if you have all 4 allies inside the hero with maxed Glider Swarm, Air Advancement AND AA/WBY. I think that's a pretty good trade-off actually.

AA/WBY: The acronym is so much easier right now. But a 1/2/3/4 health regen for allies inside and 1/2/3/4 for the hero per ally inside means if everyone worked together it could be the tank for initiating. Disabled attacks and spells for allies, so they really are like a channeled regen and Glider boost only. I think leaving it with no additional armor would be better to give landing a weakness, which it should be.

Ultimate: Same as before. XD

Been working on some numbers too, such as Glider Swarm having a 100/120/140/160 mana cost and 25 second cooldown so you can't use it in quick succession with allies inside.

Cesious
11-12-2009, 09:38 PM
Did a pretty lengthy overhaul to the skills, finished reworks to several things, added a lot of numbers to think over for now, trying to finish off the polish for this thing. Really need to get some skill images though.

Feel free to comment all!

Cesious
11-14-2009, 09:31 PM
Few more small updates. I was enjoying that back and forth discussion about it, helped me a lot more than the occasional "T-U!" that other threads get.

Cesious
11-18-2009, 03:03 AM
Bump.

Cesious
11-21-2009, 06:31 AM
Little touch ups.

Cesious
11-26-2009, 04:18 PM
Any ideas for numbers or for anything else would be nice. Might try to put this in the actual suggestions.

Cesious
11-29-2009, 05:51 PM
Bump from page 2.

Cheese_It
11-30-2009, 12:07 PM
wait. does this mean that "Airship" doesnt need attackspeed?

Cesious
12-01-2009, 12:32 AM
Attack speed could technically relate to how fast the gliders get their attacks off, so more attack speed means they can get inside of the airship faster and end up coming out. In the end it would raise the DPS all the same.

Thanks for bringing up something I haven't thought of. Attack speed, orbs, effects, etc.

Cow
12-04-2009, 03:57 PM
Very much awesome I luv it

Sinestro
12-04-2009, 04:11 PM
Love it. Then again, I loved doing mass carriers on $$$SC maps.

A few things though;

Gliders: at 522 speed might be a bit much, but I'll get to that in a second, maybe 400 base? Also, maybe make them destroyable with a 3 second respawn time on each? 2-3 hits per glider and they recharge everytime they go back in? I don't know, I'm thinking how the Carriers in SC worked, where they would have to go back in the Carrier and then would come back out.


Skill 1: I'd suggest changing it from damage to movement speed for both the gliders and the main unit. The way you have it now if someone stacks up some crazy dps then they're going to rape face, especially with an additional 10% (which is actually closer to around 50% if you think about it, since theres 8 separate attacks going off at the same time.). Just a suggestion though, I could be wrong.

Skill 2: 480 damage + 60% slow = OP. Although maybe with not having an actual 'attack' other than the Gliders it might be fine. Something you should think about though.

Skill 3: Love it. Maybe make the movement speed -2% per other hero in it to balance it out a bit - but that's more of a suggestion if you change the +%dmg on the first skill to +%move speed.

Skill 4: Does it have a casting animation or no? If not, when you click it on/toggle it on, is the speed boost / vision boost going to start right away, or is it going to take X seconds to get to max? I'd suggest something like a 2/3/4/5seconds before the full bonus is given to that and the vision increase. The terrain/unit/forest walking could still go right away, but that seems like it would be more of a balance and makes more sense in the 'reality' of things.

Overall it's one of the best hero suggestions on the forums. Great job.

hsram
12-05-2009, 12:59 AM
good thing you didnt put a poll up here, it would of been downvoted so hard :/

Cesious
12-05-2009, 01:34 AM
Love it. Then again, I loved doing mass carriers on $$$SC maps.

A few things though;

Gliders: at 522 speed might be a bit much, but I'll get to that in a second, maybe 400 base? Also, maybe make them destroyable with a 3 second respawn time on each? 2-3 hits per glider and they recharge everytime they go back in? I don't know, I'm thinking how the Carriers in SC worked, where they would have to go back in the Carrier and then would come back out.

Skill 1: I'd suggest changing it from damage to movement speed for both the gliders and the main unit. The way you have it now if someone stacks up some crazy dps then they're going to rape face, especially with an additional 10% (which is actually closer to around 50% if you think about it, since theres 8 separate attacks going off at the same time.). Just a suggestion though, I could be wrong.

Combining these 2:Originally I had the Gliders set to destroyable and the free skill, Create Glider, would rebuild them for 25 mana cost each. People didn't like the idea so much, so I changed it to the way it is now. I'm on the fence personally about it, I like both ways or a hybrid. The reason for the 522 MS is that they need to be able to move a total of 600 range at max distance(300 to, 300 back) while still applying attack speed for their attacks at the proper range. Also had the 1st skill apply stats as a whole in general as a percentage.

In the mechanics I detail what it would be like with minimal damage, and it does ramp up heavily, but at the same time it gets dampened the moment you bring in damage absorption items or damage annulment. With 12 maximum Gliders and 200 hero damage, you're sacrificing 4 allies from being on the battlefield for 12 attacks at 30-40 damage each which could be stopped completely from a Helm of the Black Legion on average of 32 damage per hit, so a full series of attacks could end up being 96 damage for the entire flurry against someone with a HotBL. Though that's the maximum mitigation. 8 Gliders would result in 64 damage on average against a HotBL in a full flurry. On top of all else, armor still applies to their attacks and it could hurt horribly with damage return.

SC Carriers required you to rebuild the Interceptors when they were destroyed, but the difference in damage between SC and HoN is a large difference, what could take 10+ hits on SC could take 2 on HoN. So it would take some work to find common ground on stats, endgame or any of the crit type of procs you could 1 hit the Gliders. Could be interesting to see Swiftblade or Plague Bringer's Ultimates jumping to the Gliders?
Skill 2: 480 damage + 60% slow = OP. Although maybe with not having an actual 'attack' other than the Gliders it might be fine. Something you should think about though.

The slow is actually 40% with 8 Gliders, it will only hit the 60% if you have all 4 ally heroes inside of the Airship at the same time which gives it a greater use for either initially engaging, ganking or chasing. What would you think about making it so those attacks could miss against evasion? Or making it so it makes the next attack from each Glider into an added damage+slow? Giving them bypass to armor and either bypass magic armor as well or apply to magic armor for that attack?

Skill 3: Love it. Maybe make the movement speed -2% per other hero in it to balance it out a bit - but that's more of a suggestion if you change the +%dmg on the first skill to +%move speed.

I personally see this skill set pretty well, if only for the fact that you require ally heroes to be inside for it to function in any way at all. It's a HUGE sacrifice for most players to work together as a team to make this skill function correctly/as intended, but if they do there are great rewards and they won't be staying in for too long most likely.

Skill 4: Does it have a casting animation or no? If not, when you click it on/toggle it on, is the speed boost / vision boost going to start right away, or is it going to take X seconds to get to max? I'd suggest something like a 2/3/4/5seconds before the full bonus is given to that and the vision increase. The terrain/unit/forest walking could still go right away, but that seems like it would be more of a balance and makes more sense in the 'reality' of things.

I was thinking of adding a casting animation/time for the effect of "rising" which is where the speed and vision boost come in. I haven't thought of applying them at different times, having to endure a heavy mana cost. Say, 30 per second at max for 300 mana to move 5 seconds at increased range of movement and 5 more with the movement, speed and the vision. Could get pretty heavy for 10 seconds of use. Though it should be used in bursts like that in best use.

Should the skill have a loading delay for all of the effects similar to skill 3 for the "rising"? Should the mana over time go into effect before or after though? Most likely do the same as skill 3 and have a delay of 3/2.5/2/1.5 seconds on activation and deactivation on the skill. Where Staff of the Master would provide the next step in that equation as well as lowering the mana over time cost.

Overall it's one of the best hero suggestions on the forums. Great job.

Thanks for the feedback, I love feedback and this hero suggestion has turned into my favorite really fast. Any possible arguments, complaints, suggestions on anything in it, just speak up.

Cesious
12-05-2009, 01:42 AM
good thing you didnt put a poll up here, it would of been downvoted so hard :/
Why would it be downvoted? Because of the numbers or the concept?

If it's the numbers, they can always be tweaked and that's a horrible reason to downvote. Creativity is a basis for creation, otherwise we'd constantly just copy everything and the genre you're playing wouldn't exist as there would be no heroes or genre. Also, for the numbers, there are plenty of workarounds to how the numbers are currently and without them the way it's built currently any item with damage mitigation would make it obsolete.

If it's the concept, what's wrong with a steampunk or technological type of hero? We have multiple guns, turrets, energy fields, explosives from powder kegs, electric eyes, even a mechanical warrior created by the Legion. Yes, Chronos is a mechanical creation that is powered by a stolen soul of a fallen one. All of this hero is applied directly to the Newerth lore and is easily within the bounds.

People are so quick to judge things.

Sinestro
12-05-2009, 10:44 AM
good thing you didnt put a poll up here, it would of been downvoted so hard :/

It's one of the most original ideas for heroes on these boards, it's balanced to where its not just a hero made for killing and raising your KD. It's got HUGE support abilities, and the auto attack being 8 mini ships is just plain awesome. Only people that would T-Down it are those that are afraid of thinking outside the box.





In the mechanics I detail what it would be like with minimal damage, and it does ramp up heavily, but at the same time it gets dampened the moment you bring in damage absorption items or damage annulment. With 12 maximum Gliders and 200 hero damage, you're sacrificing 4 allies from being on the battlefield for 12 attacks at 30-40 damage each which could be stopped completely from a Helm of the Black Legion on average of 32 damage per hit, so a full series of attacks could end up being 96 damage for the entire flurry against someone with a HotBL. Though that's the maximum mitigation. 8 Gliders would result in 64 damage on average against a HotBL in a full flurry. On top of all else, armor still applies to their attacks and it could hurt horribly with damage return.


Good point, I wasn't thinking about how it'll be effected by armor. I was just thinking that somehow someone's going to end up with 8 ships each doing like 200 dmg a piece. But yes, it seems a lot more balanced as they do small amounts of damage which turns even smaller with Helm, Shield, or Plated Greaves, or even a lot of armor. Glad to see you actually thought this through instead of just throwing random ideas together and trying to make a hero ;)


SC Carriers required you to rebuild the Interceptors when they were destroyed, but the difference in damage between SC and HoN is a large difference, what could take 10+ hits on SC could take 2 on HoN. So it would take some work to find common ground on stats, endgame or any of the crit type of procs you could 1 hit the Gliders. Could be interesting to see Swiftblade or Plague Bringer's Ultimates jumping to the Gliders?


I think they'd have to be considered Gadgets. Skills and such don't target them, aoes don't hit them, but you can auto attack them to death. But again, the #'s can always change (number of attacks it takes to destroy them and what not), the mechanics are what need to be gotten down (that they can be destroyed or not).


The slow is actually 40% with 8 Gliders, it will only hit the 60% if you have all 4 ally heroes inside of the Airship at the same time which gives it a greater use for either initially engaging, ganking or chasing. What would you think about making it so those attacks could miss against evasion? Or making it so it makes the next attack from each Glider into an added damage+slow? Giving them bypass to armor and either bypass magic armor as well or apply to magic armor for that attack?


I think it would be kind of cool if they added some sort of Debuff, where the first one hits for say 5, adds a debuff that increases the next hit by 3, so they do like 5-8-12-15-18. Obviously the numbers need changing with my suggestion, but it would be kind of a cool way to make the damage increased without making it just a static X amount of damage spell. Could be 'too complex' though that way. Just throwing out some ideas though. But yes, I think the individual attacks of that skill should be evadable if you have Wingbow.



I was thinking of adding a casting animation/time for the effect of "rising" which is where the speed and vision boost come in. I haven't thought of applying them at different times, having to endure a heavy mana cost. Say, 30 per second at max for 300 mana to move 5 seconds at increased range of movement and 5 more with the movement, speed and the vision. Could get pretty heavy for 10 seconds of use. Though it should be used in bursts like that in best use.


It wouldn't be much different than Torturers ult in the constant mana upkeep, and since the ship is a natural Int ~30 mana per second isnt much with the naturally large mana pool. I was honestly thinking more of about the visual / reality aspect of the skill more than how much mana it would drain or how effective it would be, though. Short bursts would let you fly all over the map without much cost which is actually a pretty cool idea, just seems like there should be some drawback to using it, as it's a very very powerful skill if used properly.



Should the skill have a loading delay for all of the effects similar to skill 3 for the "rising"? Should the mana over time go into effect before or after though? Most likely do the same as skill 3 and have a delay of 3/2.5/2/1.5 seconds on activation and deactivation on the skill. Where Staff of the Master would provide the next step in that equation as well as lowering the mana over time cost.


The way I was thinking was that the delay would be longer the higher the skill is, but the reward is much greater. Takes 2 seconds to get to a high point, 3 to get higher, 4 to get even higher and 5 to get to the highest (with staff). You'll still be getting the movement +walking bonuses, but the vision radius should be a gradual increase - how it is from Night to Day - rather than just instantly giving it to you. Taking 5 seconds total to achieve 2.25x vision range isn't much of a big deal considering you still get the +movement and unitwalking right from the start. A static 25 per second for the first two levels, 50 per second for the second two levels (so its 25/25/50 and then 50 with staff) I think would be better than having the Staff actually make the mana per second less.

Just spitballing with ya though, trying to bounce some ideas off ya to help ya out. Again, I love the concept of it, and I'll fully support it for a hero in the game if it ever gets out of 'Sandbox'.

Cesious
12-05-2009, 03:57 PM
Good point, I wasn't thinking about how it'll be effected by armor. I was just thinking that somehow someone's going to end up with 8 ships each doing like 200 dmg a piece. But yes, it seems a lot more balanced as they do small amounts of damage which turns even smaller with Helm, Shield, or Plated Greaves, or even a lot of armor. Glad to see you actually thought this through instead of just throwing random ideas together and trying to make a hero ;)
Yeah, I put a lot of thought into how it would work instead of just throwing random thoughts together and going "Yay, finished hero!" like many seem to do. Even buying a 250 gold Buckler could lower his damage severely against any random player, an Iron Shield would really hurt him early as well, Helm of the Black Legion would affect him well into the lategame. All in all it seems pretty balanced when you look at the stat/armor to item to skill effects later.


I think they'd have to be considered Gadgets. Skills and such don't target them, aoes don't hit them, but you can auto attack them to death. But again, the #'s can always change (number of attacks it takes to destroy them and what not), the mechanics are what need to be gotten down (that they can be destroyed or not).
Hmm, good idea actually, gadgets like Engineer's Turret that take 2 hits to kill but heal each time they go into the hero. You'd need 2 players to focus fire or really fast attack speed. Splash from skills or Runed Axe shouldn't apply, AoE spells shouldn't either. If that was the way I took, the 522 MS would stay probably as they need to be quick and they will hang until they attack with your attack speed. Also don't want the hero outrunning them, could cause problems like Zephyr's Tornado. They would probably be replaceable for 25 mana at any time by activating the skill.


I think it would be kind of cool if they added some sort of Debuff, where the first one hits for say 5, adds a debuff that increases the next hit by 3, so they do like 5-8-12-15-18. Obviously the numbers need changing with my suggestion, but it would be kind of a cool way to make the damage increased without making it just a static X amount of damage spell. Could be 'too complex' though that way. Just throwing out some ideas though. But yes, I think the individual attacks of that skill should be evadable if you have Wingbow.
Another possible idea, for each that hits a specific enemy it does an increasing effect. But it seems to be pretty complex with that. I like the thought of it being: "The Gliders' next shot is fired with utmost precision using a piercing bullet, hailing down on their next target and dealing additional damage while slowing them." So the next 4-12 shots would do extra damage and slow, but it could split off to any random enemy if you don't target someone, it could also be precast actually, which could create a whole new meta-game for skills.


It wouldn't be much different than Torturers ult in the constant mana upkeep, and since the ship is a natural Int ~30 mana per second isnt much with the naturally large mana pool. I was honestly thinking more of about the visual / reality aspect of the skill more than how much mana it would drain or how effective it would be, though. Short bursts would let you fly all over the map without much cost which is actually a pretty cool idea, just seems like there should be some drawback to using it, as it's a very very powerful skill if used properly.

The way I was thinking was that the delay would be longer the higher the skill is, but the reward is much greater. Takes 2 seconds to get to a high point, 3 to get higher, 4 to get even higher and 5 to get to the highest (with staff). You'll still be getting the movement +walking bonuses, but the vision radius should be a gradual increase - how it is from Night to Day - rather than just instantly giving it to you. Taking 5 seconds total to achieve 2.25x vision range isn't much of a big deal considering you still get the +movement and unitwalking right from the start. A static 25 per second for the first two levels, 50 per second for the second two levels (so its 25/25/50 and then 50 with staff) I think would be better than having the Staff actually make the mana per second less.
I never play Torturer, I really should to see how much mana per second is used for the ultimate for good measure, as well as others with effects like that. Visually, it would be great to see the hero raise a little higher than normal or doing something like pushing extra air underneath it if the model had fans on board pushing down.

The effects you listed, I love that idea. It works so well and puts a drawback onto it. If it was to increase in mana cost though, I'd probably do something like 20/30/40/50 or just do 20/30/40/40 and the staff would just be a magical assistance to the way it works without penalizing it, so it'd do 2/3/4/4 for the vision as well just to give the staff that extra oomph over other +int, +armor, +hp or +damage items that the hero could benefit from.

Cheese_It
12-06-2009, 04:57 AM
dumb idea of mine.

make the 'airship' have a basic normal attack. ie. like a small rocket.
this way airship can use 'ShieldBreaker' without having the 'Gliders' to have their own debuffs.

and it seems to me that your 'Gliders' acts like 'Defilers' ult.

or it would be great ( in my opinion ) if the gliders can only take defensive item bonus gains. ie. Evasion , Dmg Block

reasoning : i hate the idea of having like 8 mini units ( gliders ) having mana burn.

Cesious
12-06-2009, 05:04 AM
So far the thought on the orbs/procs that I've had for the Gliders would be to somehow split the effect. So depending on the number active, the effect OR proc chance is divided by that amount.

Say you have the first recipe for mana burn, 20 mana burn/damage, 4 Gliders, you'd get 5 mana burn/damage per attack from them. If you had 8 at the same time, it'd be 2.5(Rounded up to 3) each. 12 would be 1.66(Rounded up to 2) each.

While something like maim would just have a lower proc chance depending on the number of Gliders.

Not sure if it's possible, but it would be nice, it's hard to find a way to make the procs/orbs work with it though. If the Airship had its own attack on top of the Gliders it would be insanely overpowered, unless I nerfed the Gliders and then they're useless against any tank even if you stack pure damage items.

Cheese_It
12-06-2009, 06:31 AM
Another thing.

Carrier using 'Shroud'.

Would the 'gliders' stop auto-targetting?
Would the 'gliders' still auto-attack and not take away invis?
or would carrier stay invis while the 'gliders' exit invis and start attacking?

Reasoning for 3rd option : Carrier doesnt have a normal attack, meaning he never leaves his invis unless he uses spells.

And using Port key.

Would the gliders instantly pop up beside him after using it?
or would they chase carrier with their fixed movement speed?

PappaRajRaj
12-08-2009, 01:38 AM
you should bump more

Merc117
12-09-2009, 07:31 AM
I would love to play this hero. Very unique idea. This guy seems like an awesome ganker.
Is there a lag time when heroes get off of the ship?

Cesious
12-11-2009, 01:01 AM
Sorry, been off for the most part.

Cheese, Shroud would stop auto-attacking just as it does for heroes, it's effectively a hold person, same with invis rune. If it is a permanent toggle in the on position for the gliders for attacks then they would break invis on attack at all. Portal key, they'd have to catch up if they're out of the hero.

Pappa, I know, I was often for awhile, been playing Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks. lol

Merc, thanks for the comment, he's really heavy support and gank with his own special mechanics that brings a style of play never before attempted in a DotA/HoN type of game. To answer your question, no delay for players. So the second they click to move off the hero, they're out in the battlefield.

Cesious
12-14-2009, 04:50 PM
Bump.

fatrend1
12-14-2009, 04:54 PM
Perhaps give miniships a 5 second cd chance to proc item abilties. Similar to engineers turret.

Cesious
12-14-2009, 09:31 PM
Woo, good idea, that's definitely a great way of handling the procs and on hit abilities. Fenrir's Fang/Frostwolf Skull would even have a delay then to balance it out. Thank you Mr. Godsendfatrend

Cesious
12-16-2009, 05:26 AM
Bump.

Cesious
12-17-2009, 08:19 PM
Bump again.

Cesious
12-21-2009, 09:27 PM
The recent posts here before the bumps are worth the read for some extra insight, I need to add that info into the main post. Anyone else thinking it's nearing completion?

Cesious
12-25-2009, 04:50 AM
Bump.

Cesious
12-31-2009, 11:04 PM
Bump.

ShadowExile
01-01-2010, 09:41 PM
You have 4 pages of support for this hero. I myself don't like it, but that's me.

Why don't you go post it in the Heroes suggestion sub-forum with a poll and actually get votes on this thing? Heroes aren't meant to sit in the sandbox for long.

Cesious
01-02-2010, 08:44 PM
Mainly because there's been so many revisions and ideas from the community that are polishing it. Both from people who like it in general and others that don't, like you. But it would be nice to have feedback on why you "don't like it" instead of just that quick comment.

ShadowExile
01-02-2010, 11:13 PM
Maybe after work tonight :) It really depends if the shift is good or not to cover up the rest of the day.

Cesious
01-16-2010, 03:49 AM
Ninjabump. Damn that you didn't get the chance to post.

Cesious
01-21-2010, 01:06 PM
*tumbleweeds*

Cesious
01-25-2010, 02:22 AM
Bump.

Cesious
01-28-2010, 03:57 AM
Bumpage. I should really put some finishing touches on this. I think we got most of the mechanics issues worked out.

Cesious
01-29-2010, 01:44 AM
I have now posted the topic in the heroes section of the site, use this link to go directly to it.

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=71892