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View Full Version : Item builds for Sand Wraith!



stuartb
10-10-2009, 01:19 AM
Lets get this thread started! Post any item build ideas, laning ideas, etc!

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After a few games with him I think that 2x wraith bands is necessary for dps early game for ganks. I farmed mock of brilliance early in one game but didn't find it extremely useful.

I tried Hack and Slash as well for earlier-mid game item and found it pretty meh as well. I ended up with this build and really liked it:

start:
2x protectors
2x runes
1x mana

core:
2x wraith bands
phase boots
nullfire
geomancers

Ult+teleport to lone hero, zap them with nullfire and destroy them with geomancer 3x images+mana burn. It's a guaranteed kill almost every time.

lux:
heart (if having hard time staying alive)
wingbow (if dominating and lots of melee)
shieldbreaker (high hp heroes)

I like the idea of going buckler then upgrading the poor mans shield in lane as someone mentioned. I'll have to try that out, which should help nuetraling.

Lethe
10-10-2009, 01:37 AM
get babysat.

KS with mirage+the sub skill and desert's curse.

Farm up nullfire blade.

Farm up mock.

Farm up geometer's bane/behemoth's heart (depending on which way the game is going order can change).

Basically farm up those items while ganking with your ult.

Hero in a nutshell.

PoopyDesires
10-10-2009, 01:38 AM
Geometer's Bane, Behemoth's Heart, Mock are my favorites. Nullfire blade is nice but I actually don't find it THAT core.

Lethe
10-10-2009, 01:41 AM
Nullfire blade is the best item for SW in terms of ganking. Honestly even as SW your teammates will expect some help from you before the team fights start happening.

LegoPirate
10-10-2009, 01:41 AM
nullfire = win

PoopyDesires
10-10-2009, 01:42 AM
Its a great item, I just tend to rely on it less then other Spec/Wraith players do.

Bobdoyle
10-10-2009, 01:43 AM
I went 7-0-22 with this build

bracerx2
enhanced marchers
(also had a bottle and power supply for mana)
Whispering Helm
Assassins Shourd
Nullfire

Luxury is w/e u want

LegoPirate
10-10-2009, 01:50 AM
shroud on spectre lol. otherwise a fine build

Halo1
10-10-2009, 01:54 AM
Im not exactly sure about the new nullfire for him tbh.. I mean I know thats what everyone used to get but... Im going to try some other items on him

Drasha
10-10-2009, 02:04 AM
I love behemoths heart on this guy he dies to easy with out it. went enhanced marcher, 2bracer of str, rank one rift shards, and a behemoths heart.

PoopyDesires
10-10-2009, 02:21 AM
I went Steamboots 2 Wraithbands Geometer's Bane and Hatchet. Had Heart of the Malphai before the end of the game. Had 8/1/18 because Pharaoh KSed me like 7 times (Damn your ult Pharaoh. Damn it all toh ell.)

Bobdoyle
10-10-2009, 02:42 AM
shroud on spectre lol. otherwise a fine build

No reason not to unless you like wasting ult

thebeacon
10-10-2009, 03:01 AM
My build for Sand Wraith:

Early Game:
Logger's Hatchet
2x Runes
1x Health Potion
1x Branch

Mid Game:
2x Bracers
Enhanced Marchers
The lifestealing item that requires a Ring of the Teacher[Basillius]
Nullfire

Lategame:
Desolator[Forgot the HoN equivalent]
Wingbow

Basically what I get for Sand Wraith. :P

Santoriin
10-10-2009, 03:07 AM
Logger's Hatchet
iron buckler
runes

build it to iron shield in lane
boots -> enhancers
nullfire
geomater's or shieldbreaker

kevs926
10-10-2009, 03:15 AM
mock wouldve owned if u can farm it really fast (like 20mins)

stuartb
10-10-2009, 03:41 AM
After a few games with him I think that 2x wraith bands is necessary for dps early game for ganks. I farmed mock of brilliance early in one game but didn't find it extremely useful.

I tried Hack and Slash as well for earlier-mid game item and found it pretty meh as well. I ended up with this build and really liked it:

start:
2x protectors
2x runes
1x mana

core:
phase boots
nullfire
geomancers

lux:
heart (if having hard time staying alive)
wingbow (if dominating and lots of melee)
shieldbreaker (high hp heroes)

I like the idea of going buckler then upgrading the poor mans shield in lane as someone mentioned. I'll have to try that out, which should help nuetraling.

stuartb
10-10-2009, 03:50 AM
dbl post

NullDragon
10-10-2009, 04:14 AM
Quick question. What spreads to his illusions? Would mock spread to all of his illusions, or are you mostly just getting it for the extra damage on the illusions? Wondering why people like mock on him.

stuartb
10-10-2009, 05:04 AM
It's bugged right now apparently. Illusions from ult only do 1/3 dmg with mock.

JewishNinja
10-10-2009, 05:16 AM
Phase boots. 3x talisman of exile. Diffusal.

Realized that this hero is quite the arachna counter (the bug dies almost instantly x.x)

Darkalbino_
10-10-2009, 05:25 AM
I go,

Start
Loggers Hatchet
Iron Buckler
Runes of Blight

Early game
Upgrade Iron Buckler to +6Agi Shield
Lifetube
Marchers

Early mid gane
Enhanced Marchers
2x Strength Bracelet

Mid game
Nullfire Blade



WIN

Tboy
10-10-2009, 06:47 AM
It's bugged right now apparently. Illusions from ult only do 1/3 dmg with mock.

Image damage is based on the damage from stats, not item damage afaik.

deathdawn
10-10-2009, 06:53 AM
I went:

2 Fortified Bracelets
Steamboots (STR)
Helm of the Black Legion
Behemoth's Heart
Mock of Brilliance

You burn down the opponents HP so fast if they nuke you it's not even funny. (Got ulti'd by three people and all three of them died - Moon Queen Magmus Puppet )

kuroYMT
10-10-2009, 07:24 AM
Easy.

Str Steam Boots
Starscream bands(2)
Nullfire Blade(By about 20min)
Geometer's Bane
Behemoth's Heart

Reasoning:

Steam boots because he has shitty stats and hp. Starscream bands for badly needed stats and last hitting purposes. Nullfire is easily the best item for him. Mana burn works on images. Dagger+Purge+(Possibly Desolate)=Almost dead. Easy to farm due to low cost of components and they all boosts stats.

Geometer's Bane for more dispersion dmg from images, more pushing ability, ability to play mindgames, images get mana burn, u run faster since you're a great chaser mid to late game. Behemoth for more tankage. The longer you stay in a battle, the more damage you do with dispersion.

The way you play him. Stay in the farm lane and just last hit and get EXP. Whenever a sure gank happens, ult and try to last hit. Yes, Sand Wraith is that important that he is allowed to KS. Why? Because Sand Wraith can potentially be one of the strongest lategame heroes, if allowed to farm crazy enough items. Keep farming. Stay in lane and just ulti to instantly fight in team battles. Your priority is farm and exp.

Why some items are bad on Spec:

Mock: This provides no stats to a hero that has bad stats. This reduces the ability for spectre to survive the early to mid game phase because he is trying to save up way too much cash that should rather be spent on cheaper, more cost-effective items. Radiance is best utilized if the bearer stays in a fight longer. A 700HP Sand Wraith will not last long in battle. And lategame? Eh, I'd rather farm a wingbow or a behemoth heart.

Abyssal Skull: No stats. Doesn't need RoB. Rather save gold to purchase more core items. It's a shitty item, really. It's only gotten on support heroes who just want to boost their team's melee heroes. If gotten on a carry melee, then they are just wasting gold.

Hack'n'Slash: Hmm, high cost. Maim% slow compared to 100% purge slow. Hmmm. 5000+G? Wow, Spectre you wasted a **** ton of gold. This item should never be bought in any serious game. Except on Terrorblade, who is not in this game.




Problem with above build:

No dmg. You are carry. Not tank. Yes, a tank Sand Wraith is scary, but only if it has some dmg. And Helm delays your nullfire and geometer's bane by too much.

vaccine
10-10-2009, 08:34 AM
What skill build are people using? I went for sand/reflect first taking ulti at 6, then maxed True dmg attack. Worked okay using the above lifetube/shield/boots/nullfire tactic.

ellR
10-10-2009, 08:49 AM
get every possible orb in the game

Alamandaros
10-10-2009, 09:09 AM
Image damage is based on the damage from stats, not item damage afaik.

He was talking about the aura, this was a known bug before he was released.

Memphis_Doom
10-10-2009, 09:23 AM
Pretenders Crown + 2x Runes of the Blight + 1 Mana Pot + 1 Minor Totem
Soulscream Ring 1x or Fortified Bracelet 1x
Marchers + Gloves of the Swift
Punchdagger to make Enhanced Marchers
2x Halberds
Elder Parasite
Slayer to make Savage Mace


Always keep Homecoming Stone on you for after your main ability to scout lane or predict where enemy is and foresee a gank happening u can jump in bushes an home come out.

i'll let you figure out the rest - he's a great hero n a great chaser ^_^

my 2 cents.

NytriK
10-10-2009, 11:16 AM
I went:

2 Fortified Bracelets
Steamboots (STR)
Helm of the Black Legion
Behemoth's Heart
Mock of Brilliance

You burn down the opponents HP so fast if they nuke you it's not even funny. (Got ulti'd by three people and all three of them died - Moon Queen Magmus Puppet )
This is actually the best build for wraith but he forgot headdress, in dota when spectre was played competetively, this is why. If you gear for carry such as nullfire mock, you will not have the damage output you would if you tanked. His skills allow him to tank and gank, and thats what should be done. While you can pubstomp with dps items such as nullfire mock, its not the best build, only the best pubstomping build.

Bobdoyle
10-10-2009, 11:24 AM
I'm surprised im the only one who gets assassins shroud on him :)

Blockk
10-10-2009, 11:29 AM
all you need is geometers and heart

Lim_Dul
10-10-2009, 11:37 AM
Anybody getting Pretender's Crowns as starting items while having free slots should not be giving item build advice IMHO.

Yes, I'm on a personal vendetta against people not doing the math on Crowns vs Totems since there's no guarantee they're doing the math on anything else. :-P

Bobdoyle
10-10-2009, 12:44 PM
Anybody getting Pretender's Crowns as starting items while having free slots should not be giving item build advice IMHO.

Yes, I'm on a personal vendetta against people not doing the math on Crowns vs Totems since there's no guarantee they're doing the math on anything else. :-P

Im not a fan of totems since ur just gonna sell them anyway

Lim_Dul
10-10-2009, 02:52 PM
Yes and? Two Totems are 106 gold, 53 after resell (basically one last hit). Pretender's Crown is 185 gold. You're 79 gold ahead for each pair of Totems which give you the same stats.

Bulb
10-10-2009, 03:37 PM
Fun Build is...
Symbol of Rage
Barbed Armor
Wingbow
Enhanced Marchers

27-7. :D

xanderK
10-10-2009, 06:35 PM
Personally, I'm surprised I didn't see more Shroud in this list since getting one effectively makes him unkillable and even more annoying.

HOWEVER, my first thought on Sand Wraith hasn't been mentioned yet and I wonder why: Sacrificial Stone. Given the new range limit and SW's ability to tank late game, this is a perfect item for him. Since SW will be in on nearly every fight, it's safe to say that he'll pile up the charges quickly.

stuartb
10-10-2009, 06:40 PM
Anybody getting Pretender's Crowns as starting items while having free slots should not be giving item build advice IMHO.

Yes, I'm on a personal vendetta against people not doing the math on Crowns vs Totems since there's no guarantee they're doing the math on anything else. :-P

Totems vs. crowns is honestly a personal preference. There's pro's and con's for each and honestly, it doesn't even matter in the long run. I sometimes buy totems and I sometimes buy crowns, just depends on whether or not it's a full moon.

That personal "vendetta" ya got seems a bit silly to me.

crazysheep
10-10-2009, 07:35 PM
Nullfire is one of the best items you could get for Sand Wraith, since you get cheap damage and an upgradeable slow. After that, since images get Desertion, I'd go for Geometer's Bane.

Poor Man's Shield is useful since Sand Wraith has kinda poor HP.

RTBardic
10-11-2009, 11:09 AM
Lots of guides are listing Heart as the preferred luxury item after Nullfire / Geo. SInce AGI chars don't get regen from it, is Frostwolf (with a now-stacking freeze orb) a better idea?

CannibalOx
10-11-2009, 11:48 AM
I'm glad if I get a nullfire and geometers bane in the same game (except for my steamboots and maybe a couple of screamrings), even when it goes really well and I'm having 10-15 kills. You guys want a behemots heart on top of that? You must be talking about -em for sure.

Miyazi
10-11-2009, 01:48 PM
I'm glad if I get a nullfire and geometers bane in the same game (except for my steamboots and maybe a couple of screamrings), even when it goes really well and I'm having 10-15 kills. You guys want a behemots heart on top of that? You must be talking about -em for sure.

Someone can't farm :/

BigHustles
10-11-2009, 02:36 PM
Mock: This provides no stats to a hero that has bad stats. This reduces the ability for spectre to survive the early to mid game phase because he is trying to save up way too much cash that should rather be spent on cheaper, more cost-effective items. Radiance is best utilized if the bearer stays in a fight longer. A 700HP Sand Wraith will not last long in battle. And lategame? Eh, I'd rather farm a wingbow or a behemoth heart.


I feel the same way about this. I played about 4-5 games with him yesterday and while I really enjoyed getting nulfire blade, each time I remembered that I'd start having to build mock, I'd think, "F*** 3800 gold now :(" Plus, if he's more of a ganker, I feel like the mock isn't getting its full effect in such a quick battle and that theres quicker routes. Plus, like kuroYMT says, he's not gaining any stats.

I didn't realize till later reading in the forums that the Geobane is a great item so I've yet to try it on him but I can see how it would useful for him.

Mock is just too God damn expensive and isn't the best fit for this guy. Plus the guy has a sick short sword for shanking fools, he don't wanna carry around that hamma! I really like his animation too btw. Short and quick how it should be.

Lee_K
10-11-2009, 02:38 PM
I went 7-0-22 with this build


ur doin it wrong

also to the above - hes not a ganker, hes a carry.

BigHustles
10-11-2009, 02:42 PM
I'm glad if I get a nullfire and geometers bane in the same game (except for my steamboots and maybe a couple of screamrings), even when it goes really well and I'm having 10-15 kills. You guys want a behemots heart on top of that? You must be talking about -em for sure.

Man, you have to be exaggerating if you can't get nullfire and geobane in the same game if you have 10-15 kills... I can get nullfire and mock with less kills no problem. Learn how to last hit if you're serious.

BigHustles
10-11-2009, 02:44 PM
also to the above - hes not a ganker, hes a carry.

He still has great mid game though, is it bad for him to go around roaming?

CannibalOx
10-11-2009, 02:55 PM
Man, you have to be exaggerating if you can't get nullfire and geobane in the same game if you have 10-15 kills... I can get nullfire and mock with less kills no problem. Learn how to last hit if you're serious.

No, I can. It's just that the game would prolly be over 8/10 times before I'd get a heart as well.

Dunno, maybe I need to work on my farming skills..

BigHustles
10-11-2009, 04:25 PM
Yea, the heart I totally understand, I just got out of a game that was probably about 45-50 mins. After geobane, your farming is so rediculously easy its not that tough to get behem heart. By the time I got it though our creeps were in their base and the game was over. This is all coming from a 1500-1600psr player though so I dont know.

Zeroseraph
10-11-2009, 04:37 PM
ur doin it wrong

also to the above - hes not a ganker, hes a carry.

that comment made me lol hes prob one of the best gankers in the game aside from scout.

anyway i find this build over fun
early runes and pretenders
enhanced

midgame
axe or mock depending on how much time i got to farm
geometer
heart

late game if it goes that far nulls for fun and usually crit or to add more overkill doombringer

Bobdoyle
10-11-2009, 04:55 PM
ur doin it wrong

also to the above - hes not a ganker, hes a carry.

because i helped my team?

DaDrizzle
10-11-2009, 05:27 PM
I usually go vanguard, a couple of bracelets & enh marchers, then geometeres followed by heart if game lasts that long.

Prefer vanguard due to the fact that it scales fairly well with his dissipation for physical attacks, also allows him to chase people without getting whacked by reinforcements..and the health is nice.

Do build him as a tank-chaser.

ara_
10-11-2009, 05:50 PM
because i helped my team?

your team should help you, you're the carry

Vodka
10-11-2009, 05:59 PM
your team should help you, you're the carry


ur doin it wrong

also to the above - hes not a ganker, hes a carry.

Because Pestilence should never help his team, he can carry!
Carries should never gank!
Playing 4v5 waiting while some guy gets farmed is fun!
Don't take any opportunity to help your team in teamfights or ganks and maybe help win the game earlier even though your skillset lets you do so!
Just farm the entire game!

Yeah, sounds like you guys are right...carries should never help their teams, makes perfect sense.

Zeroseraph
10-11-2009, 06:07 PM
Because Pestilence should never help his team, he can carry!
Carries should never gank!
Playing 4v5 waiting while some guy gets farmed is fun!
Don't take any opportunity to help your team in teamfights or ganks and maybe help win the game earlier even though your skillset lets you do so!
Just farm the entire game!

Yeah, sounds like you guys are right...carries should never help their teams, makes perfect sense.

I clap my hand off to you sir because you just described what every carry does farm the whole game and never help out. Then they have the nerve to say the team won because of the carry thats such bs carriers don't make the team it the people who are playing stopping enemy advancements with only 4 players.

BigHustles
10-11-2009, 10:36 PM
Whats the best way to build him as a tank?

Zeroseraph
10-11-2009, 11:05 PM
Whats the best way to build him as a tank?

thats hard to say he not meant to tank i would say tho heart geo and frost and abyssal would prob be the best tank build for him but it way too expensive to farm those big items up. But he really not meant to be played as a tank.

knowitall
10-11-2009, 11:16 PM
I've seen like one correct build in this entire thread.

Nullfire
STR Steamboots
Mock
Geo/Heart in whichever order needed.

Sand Wraith is one of the best hard carries because he can literally farm all game and still participate in all team battles. You might be in a few ganks but SW is not a ganker.

Fritsc
10-11-2009, 11:56 PM
You can actually try this builds, its cheap and easy to get.
It's pretty fun too

Enhanced Marcher
Elder Parasite
Slash

You'll get an 522 Movement speed, and attack real fast.
Really good for chasing.

Also, he maybe not meant to tank, but he actually really does well in tanking.
Get a heart and when you're killed, you probably have their lives all down to half as well.

guoguo
10-12-2009, 01:12 AM
Because Pestilence should never help his team, he can carry!
Carries should never gank!
Playing 4v5 waiting while some guy gets farmed is fun!
Don't take any opportunity to help your team in teamfights or ganks and maybe help win the game earlier even though your skillset lets you do so!
Just farm the entire game!

Yeah, sounds like you guys are right...carries should never help their teams, makes perfect sense.

Nice strawman. While ganking and carrying the team can both happen in a game, farming is generally a more efficient use of time for the item-dependent heroes.

Lethe
10-12-2009, 01:17 AM
Because Pestilence should never help his team, he can carry!
Carries should never gank!
Playing 4v5 waiting while some guy gets farmed is fun!
Don't take any opportunity to help your team in teamfights or ganks and maybe help win the game earlier even though your skillset lets you do so!
Just farm the entire game!

Yeah, sounds like you guys are right...carries should never help their teams, makes perfect sense.

that would describe zephyr actually, hero was born to rice and can't do much else.

You have to be good at farming to be good with SW, period. I've pulled off stuff like 45 min treads (steamboots), radiance (mock) OLD manta (geometer's bane) and behemoth's heart so it is viable. Just gotta play smart and play well.

espoletsgo
10-12-2009, 01:30 AM
requesting a SW guide from trainingday!

gipp2
10-12-2009, 01:41 AM
specter is one of the best carries due to damage return, a snare and global teleport skill. a team focusing her first gets dealt a decent amount of damage in the process.
so tanking+damage is the way to go.
dagger gives her good mobility during a team fight and good survivability if used right.
ultimate makes you a presence in any fight anywhere on the map. people who cry KS are just retards.

build damage items for early game. nullfire usually. slash for possible later geometers bane given that you arent facing an aoe team, but even then, an illusion mind trick can be game breaking.
wingbow if vs other hard carries. evasion+ damage return makes you dominate other hard carries late game.
late game, get heart of course.

specter shouldnt roam. why? she is a carry.
you can say that you should help the team instead of farm. but a specter late game without decent farm is near useless. why? because she is a carry.

but you can still help the team early-mid.
its called get baby sat so you can dominate a lane and last hit easy to get a quick nullfire+enhancers.

once you hit 6 or 7. you will continue to lane. if you are forced to neutral, build a poor man shield (iron shield?) and possibly grab lifesteal to build to a possible satanic.
i am against strict rice neutraling on carries. they usually cant farm fast enough to be as efficient as last hitting a free farm lane. but of course sometimes you have to neutral.

anyways.
continue to lane/neutral BUT use your ultimate to gank people especially if you think someone is jungling.
this is called map awareness.
if you catch someone jungling, it is pretty much a free kill.
or you can also use your ultimate to jump into a team fight.
pretty much use your ultimate every cd. dont play her like a pub TB who save their ults for last hitting heros.

as for mock of brilliance.
ive never tried it because i dont particularly care for that item. it seems people build her for her images. i think she is better off built for solo killing aka hard carry style in the long run.
sure a full duration ult is good in the middle of a team fight, but to build items to support it i think is about as efficient as building booboo over wildsoul. it may work at times, but i dont think its the best way to build.

FuzzyWuzzy
10-12-2009, 05:33 AM
Build MUST be Mock.

Otherwise the following things happen:

- he loses his farming speed vastly
- he loses team fight capability since he is near useless in team fights without Mock's AoE and will be mostly ignored due to his passive
- loses about half the damage from ultimate

Nullfire Blade, Geometer's Bane, Behemoth's Heart, Wingbow are your other options but AFTER mock (well except for Nullfire if they have HB or Jeraziah)

Lazd
10-12-2009, 07:06 PM
ass shroud is not needed,
sand rocket into trees > hide > profit

PoopyDesires
10-12-2009, 07:09 PM
Anybody getting Pretender's Crowns as starting items while having free slots should not be giving item build advice IMHO.

Yes, I'm on a personal vendetta against people not doing the math on Crowns vs Totems since there's no guarantee they're doing the math on anything else. :-P

I typically keep Bracers/Soulscreams/Exiles for a rather long time, I'd rather have the crown early.


Build MUST be Mock.


MUST BE?



he will be mostly ignored due to his passive


How is this bad? If their team wasn't focusing the carry because of his passive they were kind of retarded anyways.

`aNarchy
10-12-2009, 07:24 PM
No reason not to unless you like wasting ult


Your money is best spent elsewhere. SW needs no real escape mechanism since you can pass through regularly impassable terrain with your spectral dagger(or whatever it's called in HoN) You could also ulti, and port out of there if possible(this should be a last ditch attempt at getting away)

I find that getting an Elder Parasite, Nullifier, and an Iron shield early on greatly increases your ability to gank. Achieving one level of your first skill, and maxing your 2nd and 3rd guarantees you a kill if you use your ulti + purge + dagger + elder on a hero farming neuts/pushing alone. Setting wards(if a more suitable hero won't buy them) is also very handy in order to gain some free money on loner heroes.

10-13-2009, 03:48 PM
can someone explain to me why the nullfire is so popular on this character? Is it because his images also have the nullfire effect on the enemy heroes? Thanks.

m4c4n999
10-13-2009, 05:10 PM
cos of additional slow it gives+mana burn from iamges (aint much but it still counts)

poo
10-13-2009, 05:38 PM
Do his images from his ult have dissipation? I seem to remember that getting removed on spectre before HoN. If not, then you pretty much have to get a geometer's to play SW the way he was played in competitive games (i.e. damage reflector).

Geometry
10-13-2009, 10:01 PM
Mock first isn't realistic unless you really dominate your lane. Spec + babysitter vs a weak lane maybe, but I feel that, by going radiance first, you're diminishing a lot of the gank potential he gains by going Nullfire -> Radiance. Quick Nullfire is absolutely devastating.

Archnation
10-14-2009, 12:10 AM
ass shroud is not needed,
sand rocket into trees > hide > profit

I about died laughing when i read this.

AKA - Pants

Lethe
10-14-2009, 12:53 AM
requesting a SW guide from trainingday!

Sw is not a hero that I can teach you through guides. He is not straightfoward like Slither or Glacius and there are MANY aspects of him that you will have to master to play him effectively. On a scale of 1-10, where 0 is clueless with a hero and where 10 is perfecting a hero, me writing a guide to show you the ideal item build/skill build will literally put you at a 1.

You can even watch replays and they won't do much concerning SW. I spectated my share of games where Loda, LightofHeaven or Travka (imo the 3 best spectre players in the world) played spectre and honestly I learned absolutely nothing, because Spectre was likely my strongest carry in dota and I played him at a tier that could easily carry against world class players if they underestimated me.

IMO though, 3 golden rules when playing SW

1) You have to be a good, no...great farmer, period. A great farmer is very often a player who is stuck on carry. If you play other roles, it's not that you can't play SW, it's just that you will likely not farm as well as people who play carry heroes every game. If you have seen games with SW recently I am sure you will notice the amount of slow mocks, like 35-45 mins, in many cases under ideal circumstances. Not good enough.

2) A strong trait of a carry player is being an opportunist. With a global teleport and desert's curse, the best carry players will put this to very, very strong use. Against a pro SW, if you are the target of a manifest, hope you have a tp or prepare to die. Seasoned spec/SW players have a VERY good feel of how much dps they can put out before their slow expires, when I use reality/manifest I can almost instanteously figure out the probablity of them escaping or them getting away.

3) Map awareness, generic but true. Learn how to abuse unit/cliff walking or whatever its called, this was a skill that only the strongest spec players mastered, but in HoN it is clockwork. Remember that you maintain pathing 4 seconds after you leave desert's curse. People often neglect the numbers behind their skills, and it reflects on their performance tbh. Keep on eye on the map, and know when a gank is viable, and when it is not worth it.

As an example, in one SW game I had my team got in a ~7 sec fight which began with behemoth initiating on my team. My ult had 5 secs on it, and by the time it was up it was obvious that my team had lost the fight. However, a red hp hero (wild soul) was running back to the fountain, I had been spectating the fight and knew what to look for. I ulted, manifested over to what I knew would be him, slowed him, killed him, and used tp to get away without retaliation. This entire process of me casting mirage and tping back lasted less then 5 seconds. I knew that the other team could not stop me from tping back even if they tp'ed back to the base (which is where I killed Wild Soul), so I knew that the probability of me getting a clean kill and getting away was almost 100%.

When replays are up I will gladly go back to some of my SW games (if it is possible, AFAIK S2 will make it happen) and post what a near perfect SW looks like. There is a huge difference between average SWs and world class SWs and I will show you why.

jaycub
10-14-2009, 10:24 AM
steam boots + elder parasite + Brutilizer and you pretty much win

Verix
10-14-2009, 12:05 PM
Personally, I'm surprised I didn't see more Shroud in this list since getting one effectively makes him unkillable and even more annoying.

HOWEVER, my first thought on Sand Wraith hasn't been mentioned yet and I wonder why: Sacrificial Stone. Given the new range limit and SW's ability to tank late game, this is a perfect item for him. Since SW will be in on nearly every fight, it's safe to say that he'll pile up the charges quickly.

Are you retarded?


Totems vs. crowns is honestly a personal preference. There's pro's and con's for each and honestly, it doesn't even matter in the long run. I sometimes buy totems and I sometimes buy crowns, just depends on whether or not it's a full moon.

That personal "vendetta" ya got seems a bit silly to me.

When you say "personal preference" you really mean "anyone who thinks its better to get crown when you have 2 slots is mathematically challenged."


Build MUST be Mock.

Otherwise the following things happen:

- he loses his farming speed vastly
- he loses team fight capability since he is near useless in team fights without Mock's AoE and will be mostly ignored due to his passive
- loses about half the damage from ultimate

Nullfire Blade, Geometer's Bane, Behemoth's Heart, Wingbow are your other options but AFTER mock (well except for Nullfire if they have HB or Jeraziah)

I find it unrealistic to farm 3800 on a hero with poor farm in a game with competent enemies. Much more reliable to get easy to build items like nullfire and geometer's, especially because of the illusions getting +agi.


can someone explain to me why the nullfire is so popular on this character? Is it because his images also have the nullfire effect on the enemy heroes? Thanks.

Nullfire benefits the hero in multiple areas. It's a good item with a great active ability. All the components are cheap and give stats. The damage from the item is +agi and mana burn, both of which your illusions benefit from. Illusions don't get raw +dmg from items like shieldbreaker and mock of brilliance.

Ultimately, your illusions will hopefully have +45 pure from your passive and your mana burn and agi. The argument for mock of brilliance is that your illusions have the AoE damage effect (non-stacking, obviously) and that you're likely to put that aoe damage to good use during team fights on top of your defensive passive.


steam boots + elder parasite + Brutilizer and you pretty much win

Right... Have you ever played the character outside of an EM pub?

ImpBloody
10-14-2009, 02:00 PM
There is no reason to get enchanted marchers or wingbow on this hero because dissipation is far better when your not dodging all the hits, and her curse already gives her a phase effect. I build him with steamboots, geometers bane, frostwolf's skull, nullfire blade, and a heart. Last item is whatever, can be a mock if you really want one. typically once i have my frostwolf, i dont use the nullfire anymore because of attack modifier.

BigHustles
10-14-2009, 03:29 PM
3) Map awareness, generic but true. Learn how to abuse unit/cliff walking or whatever its called, this was a skill that only the strongest spec players mastered, but in HoN it is clockwork. Remember that you maintain pathing 4 seconds after you leave desert's curse. People often neglect the numbers behind their skills, and it reflects on their performance tbh. Keep on eye on the map, and know when a gank is viable, and when it is not worth it.


+1 to this statement. Everything here is super important. I watch my minimap hardcore when I'm playing SW. When solo farming lanes when the enemy is miss, TBT is right that you have to understand that you still have the walk anywhere ability even after you're off his sandy carpet for another 4 seconds, so if youre quick, enough time to shoot it towards the outpost, buy a tp, hop back on the carpet if need be, then tp the F*** out. Many times I've had the whole opposing team try to get me and I'm still able to escape. I can see the MS Paint nerd rage comics already...

kevs926
10-16-2009, 04:35 PM
one thing stuck on my mind:

SW with 25 mins mock, game over

Mirage, a skill twice as powerful as Lightning Storm when combined with mock, definitely hurts those casters esp when they are deserted.

Mock just doesn't give you the necessary dmg output but also the gold you will need for late game.

My goal is to always get mock ASAP. 25 mins is impossible w/o hatchet or early support items. Another way is to rush Alch bones. Although it'd be delayed a little longer, it is a safer way to farm for mock because every 100 mins you easily clear a camp and get more bounty on the big neutral creep.

As for nullfire blade, i do like the idea but rushing it is no good if you need better items late game. Rush it if you can surely win late game.