The OFFICIAL DOTA2 Thread

[Player27]

Diablo 3 gonna be freaking sweet :)


Don't buy Blizzard/Activision games. It's better to give it to save the children. Heck it's even better to destroy the money.

[Soblane]

HoN.

[starguitar]

Hey I've been playing HoN since the beta and have been a long time Dota player. I've really liked the way the games changed over the years from a dota clone to having a lot of unique heroes and features.

My concern is that this ride might be coming to a close. My cousin keeps telling me that S2 is in a lot of financial trouble, which is why they implemented the Gold coin system for items S2 basically wants you to buy and not earn in game.

I think my cousin is just an idiot and trolling me because he keeps going on about how LoL has 1 million plus players, and how HoN is going to completely shut down once Dota 2 comes out.

If HoN does shut down will we get some sort of non-central server option to keep playing or anything?

[TDRx]

s2 is milking hon when they can still do it before dota2.0 comes out, that's why they making this LoL cashshop. lmao

[Hate]

That does play a large role in my decision to ever buy coins.

[carben]

my cousin.. nuff said

[Ben_Dunder]

Oh, stop it with the Dota 2 threads already.

Either HoN will die or they won't, the first gazillion threads didn't affect the course of events and the next gazillion threads won't affect it either. Just wait and see.

[MegucaMeduka]

Yes, tards will stay while pros will move

[seoulstice]

The way I see it...

If DotA 2 really does come out as the better game, we should have no problem switching to it, we would be glad and excited even.
If DotA 2 turns out to suck, then we will continue to play HoN.

[K7_Sykk]

Great day when alll the DOTA2 fanboys will be very disappoint because DOTA2 isn't what they hyped it up to be.
It's already been said by some dude idk who but why buy DOTA2 when you already have DOTA2.

[Revenant]

As long as S2 keeps coming out with decent (BALANCED) heroes and new items, I'll stick around even after DotA 2's "Soon™" release.

[K7_Sykk]

Agree with exit_wound on that, just retarded how all the kids are crying about coin shop when realisticly(spelling?) has nothing to do with gameplay at all :(
"I quit HoN for DOTA2 because S2 didn't give me free announcer packs :("

[CavitySearch]

Hon is a fun way to kill time until Dota2 and Diablo3.

[Artic]

Valve game + no release date = never coming out. TF2 took NINE YEARS to make.

[Destro]

Dota 2 will probably have a coin shop. SURPRISE SURPRISE.

I hate to say it, but regarding good information, HoN will either be alive or dead. You might say "well those are the only options, herp derp". Well... yeah. However, I didn't think that HoN would even have the option of dying before. Now I seriously believe that there is a good chance that HoN could be dead in a year and am willing to say things have gone from impossible to 50:50.

:/

I'll get coins if S2 releases cool stuff from the shop. However, the latest releases have been absolute disappointments. I would rather have the elemental Icon pack over almost anything else in the shop. Female glacius/pyro are about the only things in the shop that I plan on buying when I get the coins. However, I won't pay cash for them since I just don't think they were good enough.

The reason I got the MQ alt avatar is because it looks way better than the original and I feel it was a totally worthy buy to get away from the bug shape. You could argue this is good enough to get the SR avatar but again I don't like the SR avatar. I still think that my Angel Defiler would be a good alternate avatar and I would pay coins. People generally agree Defiler needs a new model and why S2 release new models for heroes like tempest first (who have fine models) is beyond me.

I'm not spending a cent more until some good stuff comes out.

[Player27]

It will take 99% of all players. Trust me.

[Calad]

6/10, a lot of people took the bait here

[Slithice]

I'll be playing dota2 when it comes out, you probably will too.

[LUC3NT]

GENOCIDE

[Initiative]

I'm pretty sure that Maliken is super freaking wealthy and could probably support this game on his own if he had to

[Player27]

Btw, it doesn't matter if Dota 2 is based on paying monthly, having a money shop, and so on. It's still going to take every single player.

[Hate]

Valve game + no release date = never coming out. TF2 took NINE YEARS to make.

TF2 underwent fundamental design and graphics changes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiJCS-mpQSE) a few times. It was shelved for a while. 9 years sounds grand until you realize how much of that time it wasn't even development on the game you know today.

DOTA2 is already playable in-house. They have all the DOTA material to copy. It's going to be out within a year.

[angrad]

Dota 2 isn't even trying to compete with Hon. They are competing with LoL.

HoN already lost to LoL. (business wise) HoN won't hurt any more or less than they are now.

[CrashBashL]

The sad thing is that there are MILLIONS of DOTA fans out there...and 40.000 HON fans in here.
what would those million DOTA fans do when DOTA 2 will come out?

:(

so when DOTA 2 comes out, HON should be free to play and keep the coin shop.. (my 2 cents)

[Hate]

Dota 2 isn't even trying to compete with Hon. They are competing with LoL.

HoN already lost to LoL. (business wise) HoN won't hurt any more or less than they are now.

I agree with you except for your last point. A majority of the HoN players seem to be ex-DOTA players. I don't meet too many ex-DOTA players when I play LoL. Obviously DOTA2 is going to bring back the players looking for nostalgia.

[Revenant]

I agree with you except for your last point. A majority of the HoN players seem to be ex-DOTA players. I don't meet too many ex-DOTA players when I play LoL. Obviously DOTA2 is going to bring back the players looking for nostalgia.

And find out that Techies/Tiny is still lulzy as f*ck, rageuninstall, and go play HoN.

[Player27]

Dota 2 isn't even trying to compete with Hon. They are competing with LoL.

HoN already lost to LoL. (business wise) HoN won't hurt any more or less than they are now.


Remember the summer 2009, nobody here thought LoL would beat HoN. S2 games really gave this one away.

[Smeggles]

90% of the people that still play DOTA play it because they don't want to spend money on the next thing (aka HON).

Gonna have to buy DOTA2, so guess what? They gonna keep playing DOTA

Same **** happened in SC - all the people that don't wanna pay for essentially the same game didn't buy SC2

[EspritFort]

Hey I've been playing HoN since the beta and have been a long time Dota player. I've really liked the way the games changed over the years from a dota clone to having a lot of unique heroes and features.

My concern is that this ride might be coming to a close. My cousin keeps telling me that S2 is in a lot of financial trouble, which is why they implemented the Gold coin system for items S2 basically wants you to buy and not earn in game.

I think my cousin is just an idiot and trolling me because he keeps going on about how LoL has 1 million plus players, and how HoN is going to completely shut down once Dota 2 comes out.

If HoN does shut down will we get some sort of non-central server option to keep playing or anything?

There will be no shut-down. Even if the playerbase decreases, no drop will justify shutting down thousands of servers. No reason to worry ;)

[Lanzy]

After reading a post made by Freshpro (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=225429) regarding the recent balance patch, there was one particular line that interested me when he said a lot of the competitive players are saying "just screw it, we go dota2 when it's out" he said this regarding recent imbalances he feels s2 has made. I'm not saying I agree or disagree but it did interest me)

What interested me was whether or not this statement is true, because (assuming valve ports every dota hero the way it is now as they have stated) the balancing of dota2 will be no better (if not worse) than HoN's. They will have a SW that is just as OP as the SW we had before this patch, they will have a DS with a better version of the unbreakable ability (one of the key imbalances freshpro highlighted) and of course the stupid heroes that will be autobanned in every competitive game such as techies. So why would all the competitive players move to a game that is probably going to end up less balanced than this one.

The typical response that will follow is "no OP S2 heroes in dota2" to that I say, how do you define s2 heroes as OP, take a look at the win % of the heroes in detailed hero statistics, at the time of this post there are 29 heroes either at or above 50% win, of these 29 heroes, there are 5 s2 heroes and 24 dota remakes, now to this you will say "yeah but there are more dota heroes". Turning to the other end of the scale, there are 10 heroes at or below 45% win, of these 10 heroes, 8 are s2 heroes and 2 are dota heroes. Furthermore in competitive games there is a general 8 dota heroes to 2 s2 heroes used in each game, not to mention the commonly banned heroes such as pharaoh, SW and TB are all dota heroes.

So I ask, how are the s2 heroes as OP as everyone says they are and why is dota2 so godlike in everyones mind

[MegaMan_X`]

If you lose to an S2 hero, it must be because they were OP and not just a better player.

People like to find excuses.

[Kynth]

Ever heard of the "retail will fix it" line?

Also General Discussion is not the best place to go for constructive comments/criticism.

On a more serious note, you look at the people who play HoN, previous DotA fans that wanted more. DotA2 is like checking out Starcraft 2 for Starcraft players. Who wouldn't go and check Dota2 out and see if it's better than HoN? (if it's f2p) Sure they'll say whatever, but I wouldn't take anything they say seriously until it comes out, when they can actually leave.

As for the S2 heroes being OP, I don't see that as a big issue. More just what Megaman said.

[DestroAnt]

Remember that a lot of the heroes that are ports from dota have been changed slightly. Another thing to Remember is that in dota there is a lot more heroes who counter other heroes (Doombringer can counter Zeus for example).

[Seethe]

If you lose to an S2 hero, it must be because they were OP and not just a better player.

People like to find excuses.

:dead:
:dead:
:dead:
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[ZyV]

So I ask, how are the s2 heroes as OP as everyone says they are and why is dota2 so godlike in everyones mind

Because the grass is always greener elsewhere, also because since Dota2 isn't retail yet a lot of people dream it will be better than HoN in every single aspect (competitive scene, friendly community, better balance, better MM, better heroes, free to play, no micro-transaction and so on...).

EDIT : I forgot to mention that there are also many valve/steam fanbois.

[daicon]

Isn't the current rumor that Valve sent a legal notice to S2 saying they couldn't port any heroes or skills that IceFrog worked on at any point?

[TheOtherOne]

DotA also has like triple the heroes so you can't autoban everything and people have to actually think about their picks. A lot more interesting strategies exist. There's more to it than picking the best heroes, you have to actually think about what works well together and what will work well against what your opponents have.

[MegaMan_X`]

:dead:
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:dead:

Yes? :dead: is one of the WORST heroes in the game. When was the last time a competitive player banned or picked him? He's a 1 trick pony that dies off after 40 minutes even if the player was godlike up until then.

1. no reliable stun. (It's not even a stun because you can still cast ****)
2. ultimate that scales horribly and requires melee range
3. melee
4. not very good stat gain

If you screw this guy over the first 10 minutes of the game, he will never recover.


Isn't the current rumor that Valve sent a legal notice to S2 saying they couldn't port any heroes or skills that IceFrog worked on at any point?

Rumor? yes there is.

But there is no legal basis for them. You cannot copyright outright ideas, only quantifiable methods and functionality and names/images.

^ more complicated than that, but people seem to think you can copyright just about anything.

Like, you can't copyright the idea of a lock, but you CAN copyright the specific mechanics of how the lock works. Think of it this way, how many superheroes can you think of that all fly, have super strength, and have laser vision....dozens...

**** aint quantifiable? **** can't be copyrighted.

[song_tinh]

Quote from Fielding


Freshpro, you have access to an OMGTOPSECRET forum, along with several other competitive players. 90% of the topics in that forum get direct replies from us (S2) and we're actively engaging with you guys, asking you what you think of things, and asking for feedback.

Why would you post this here, where we have a chance of seeing it, rather than in the forum you know we visit a lot? What's more, why is this the first you've bought up any of those changes or mechanics? There should be a thread in competitors right now, from you, listing these issues. We had the shaman changes stickied and easily readable for weeks on end before putting it into the game, as well as giving you guys access to test and play with the change before it went live. You didn't feel like saying anything before then?

Sorry if it feels like I'm calling you out here, but really this deserves to be in the competitors forum. You've got a special direct line of communication to us for a reason, you should be using it. It's not that this thread shouldn't be public - I don't mind at all if it it is, but if you're sincere about wanting to do everything you can to make the game the best it can be, you should be using the best tools at your disposal.

[BeenGaming]

I will never understand all the DoTA 2 hype or the S2 bashing. From basically everything we have learned, they intend to make DoTA 2 virtually identical to the original.
So you get better graphics - great, only took you 6 years, and HoN has that.
You get a better engine - great, HoN has the best I've seen; the match-recording and replay system is amazing (even despite losing some of the old ones, as seems to have happened), and even the website search features are great (sort by hero, clan, etc.)
You get DoTA heroes... cool. I know some of you are apparently willing to pay $50 for Morphling, and Valve seems to be banking on that, but I will keep the ones I've got, thanks. I do wish they'd port Lycan, though ;)

And as for all of this "S2 is greedy/out of touch/unprofessional/bad at balancing" that has been so rampant recently, I feel like the only people complaining are the ones who had some previous, unexplained beef with S2 and are using these non-issues as an excuse to rage.

Greedy? Uh, they are a company, and need money as such, so of course they would like if you payed $20 for a snazzy new voice pack, but you don't have to. People are acting as though they charged everyone's credit card $20 to keep their account active, or added a monthly sub (which, frankly, I already can't believe they don't have. When I saw it was $30 one time, I was stoked). Remember way back when, a week ago, when they didn't have that announcer pack, and life still went on? Guess what? If you don't spend $20 on it, it will be exactly the same.

Out of Touch/Unprofessional? S2 posts more on the forums and is more visible online than any company I've ever seen (except Octopi, now SOE Tuscon, but they have a player base of ~2000). They know what's going on, they clearly read the forums often, they host and watch all the tournies. Hell, they implemented player-designed symbols and skins and whatnot (even the "making a difference" shields). And "unprofessional?" Well, they are a small business, for all intents and purposes. They have the luxury and privilege of being able to be quirky and act like real people. We have all seen the quotes of their funny sayings in-game, we all see the prevalent meme and pop culture references, and I think the vast majority of us love it. For me, it was one of the things that turned me on to the game in the first place. And as for the "offensive" statements, I feel that they are essentially no different that what I am saying now. People were all up in arms over the "Bucket of Tears" and how insensitive it was and how they "insulted players" etc, etc. They were being rational, people. They said exactly what I have: you don't have to pay for it; life goes on; if you want it, you can have it.

And finally, the balance thing. I think everyone compares balance to DoTA because they can't seem to grasp the concept that this is a different game. It doesn't matter if our [insert port here] is different than [original]. They don't have all the S2 heroes, the same other balances, the same items... the list goes on and on. And, the longer this game continues, the more different it will be. As S2 grows away from DoTA (for the better) and develops more of its own heroes and items, the sense of DoTA balance that people so want to cling to will disappear even further, and I hope they realize that eventually. The people who claim all the "S2 Hero imba" never seem to be able to demonstrate it. As stated, more DoTA than S2 heroes are more often played, S2 heroes hardly dominate the competitive scene, and frankly the general population shouldn't be crying over a 1400 who can't dodge Myrmidon's fish. I've never seen a balance problem with this game (and, yes, I'm by no means pro), and apparently a large amount of needed balance fixes were just made - with the help of competitive players, I might add.

And yea, I know I just typed an essay. It needed to be said.


tl;dr -
1) you don't need to buy the Badass Pack. Seriously, you don't.
2) S2 is rational, not mean, and their jokes are hilarious
3) stop deciding things are unbalanced without a reason better than "I lost", and stop picking on S2 heroes when they clearly aren't any worse (if not better) than the others in terms of balance

[awaiken]

^ smashed like a crab.

[pedobearpig]

let the pro teams leave, then maybe we will have some new blood and DIFFERENT strats in competitive play. instead of the same **** we've been watching for almost a year.

[VickVega]

Great topic for conversation TY OP for posting this.

IMO - I think the whole genre is just beginning to grow and is in its infantcy. Therefore there will be many balancing tweaks and gaming engines that we create over time as the genre grows in popularity.

Compare this 'arena' style of gaming to FPS. Remember how many FPS games came out in the 90's as the genre was growing?

DOOM, Heretic, Duke Nukem, Wolfenstein 3-D, Quake...

That was so loooooooong ago, now look at all the new engines and playstyles of each FPS game. Each is unique. Same will happen with 'arena' games like DOTA.

Question is: Which developer will get is right fastest? VALVE won big time with FPS (CS,DoD and HL).... who will win this time around?

i think alot of people are betting Valve again... tahts smart money, but i have faith that S2 is full of smart people. I just hope they utilize their community more.

Check out my Forum posts on MatchMaking and UI developments HERE (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=225330)

[Winwolf]

Hon will never die

[thecats]

let the pro teams leave, then maybe we will have some new blood and DIFFERENT strats in competitive play. instead of the same **** we've been watching for almost a year.

isn't dota completely dominated by chinese teams anyway?

msi and sk will be fish taken out of an aquarium and put into an ocean

[pedobearpig]

isn't dota completely dominated by chinese teams anyway?

msi and sk will be fish taken out of an aquarium and put into an ocean

well im guessing a few players would maybe make it into decent DotA 2 team, they will more than likely come crawling back to HoN begging for their pseudo star status that they think they deserve. From what i've seen, most of the "pro" and higher tiered players are some of the biggest trolls/douches around.

[Ryuukun]

well im guessing a few players would maybe make it into decent DotA 2 team, they will more than likely come crawling back to HoN begging for their pseudo star status that they think they deserve. From what i've seen, most of the "pro" and higher tiered players are some of the biggest trolls/douches around.

Well, that's EG as we know it.

[daicon]

Rumor? yes there is.

But there is no legal basis for them. You cannot copyright outright ideas, only quantifiable methods and functionality and names/images.

^ more complicated than that, but people seem to think you can copyright just about anything.

Like, you can't copyright the idea of a lock, but you CAN copyright the specific mechanics of how the lock works. Think of it this way, how many superheroes can you think of that all fly, have super strength, and have laser vision....dozens...

**** aint quantifiable? **** can't be copyrighted.

Apparently Valve thinks so... The whole point to call it Dota2 is sort of an attempt to trademark the whole genre I think. With the name alone they seem to have the attention of most the e-sports nerds.

I think the champs belong to the community, HoN shouldn't hesitate to port more!

[IsmaelVera]

OP wins.

Get this man a job S2.

[eXoduze]

Panda's Cannon ball did get buffed, but the uniqueness of the ability is gone.
It used to be a Hit/Miss Reward/Punish ability, now it's just a leap-stun AoE.

It would've been nicer if they buffed him in another way without having to make his skills more generic.


Torturer's stun got buffed to be easier to land, the problem of torturer wasn't landing his stuns, it was his ROLE not matching his Survivability. A good buff would've been increasing his STR gain, and maybe making Agonizing Bonds pull a longer distance.

[pedobearpig]

Panda's Cannon ball did get buffed, but the uniqueness of the ability is gone.
It used to be a Hit/Miss Reward/Punish ability, now it's just a leap-stun AoE.

It would've been nicer if they buffed him in another way without having to make his skills more generic.


Torturer's stun got buffed to be easier to land, the problem of torturer wasn't landing his stuns, it was his ROLE not matching his Survivability. A good buff would've been increasing his STR gain, and maybe making Agonizing Bonds pull a longer distance.

why should some heroes have skills that punish them for missing? i don't get it.

[eXoduze]

why should some heroes have skills that punish them for missing? i don't get it.

Wow, you can't think outside the box? you want every skill to go under the a RULE that "No Ability should punish the hero, regardless of mis-use"


Behemoth's stun can punish him and his allies if he used it poorly
Devourer's Decay punishes him for freakin using it. (in exchange for no duration/cd)
Chrono's ulti punishes his allies if he used it poorly

If panda gets slowed for missing, it's just an incentive to better aim your Cannon Ball!
The thing is, it could be buffed not by removing the Punishment, but by justifying it.
Make it have lower CD/Mana cost, but retain it's reward/punish nature.

That's why these skills have high-skill-cap level because you can distinguish the good and the bad players by seeing how well they place the Chronosphere, how well they use Behe's Fissure. etc.

[thecats]

Wow, you can't think outside the box? you want every skill to go under the a RULE that "No Ability should punish the hero, regardless of mis-use"


Behemoth's stun can punish him and his allies if he used it poorly
Devourer's Decay punishes him for freakin using it. (in exchange for no duration/cd)

Chrono's ulti punishes his allies if he used it poorly
those two examples are side effects of using it improperly.

this is a direct kick in the balls if you miss your jump.

[pedobearpig]

those two examples are side effects of using it improperly.

this is a direct kick in the balls if you miss your jump.

exactly.

[ZyV]

DotA also has like triple the heroes so you can't autoban everything and people have to actually think about their picks. A lot more interesting strategies exist. There's more to it than picking the best heroes, you have to actually think about what works well together and what will work well against what your opponents have.

Dota : 103
HoN : 74

3*74 = 103.

Nice maths.

[eXoduze]

those two examples are side effects of using it improperly.

this is a direct kick in the balls if you miss your jump.

I'd rather have my own balls kicked for missing that kicking my four team-mate's balls by missing a missing a fissure and blocking them.

The point here is, a skill that can self-punish for missing can be justified by buffing the reward you get for hitting.

[Lanzy]

I will never understand all the DoTA 2 hype or the S2 bashing. From basically everything we have learned, they intend to make DoTA 2 virtually identical to the original.
So you get better graphics - great, only took you 6 years, and HoN has that.
You get a better engine - great, HoN has the best I've seen; the match-recording and replay system is amazing (even despite losing some of the old ones, as seems to have happened), and even the website search features are great (sort by hero, clan, etc.)
You get DoTA heroes... cool. I know some of you are apparently willing to pay $50 for Morphling, and Valve seems to be banking on that, but I will keep the ones I've got, thanks. I do wish they'd port Lycan, though ;)

And as for all of this "S2 is greedy/out of touch/unprofessional/bad at balancing" that has been so rampant recently, I feel like the only people complaining are the ones who had some previous, unexplained beef with S2 and are using these non-issues as an excuse to rage.

Greedy? Uh, they are a company, and need money as such, so of course they would like if you payed $20 for a snazzy new voice pack, but you don't have to. People are acting as though they charged everyone's credit card $20 to keep their account active, or added a monthly sub (which, frankly, I already can't believe they don't have. When I saw it was $30 one time, I was stoked). Remember way back when, a week ago, when they didn't have that announcer pack, and life still went on? Guess what? If you don't spend $20 on it, it will be exactly the same.

Out of Touch/Unprofessional? S2 posts more on the forums and is more visible online than any company I've ever seen (except Octopi, now SOE Tuscon, but they have a player base of ~2000). They know what's going on, they clearly read the forums often, they host and watch all the tournies. Hell, they implemented player-designed symbols and skins and whatnot (even the "making a difference" shields). And "unprofessional?" Well, they are a small business, for all intents and purposes. They have the luxury and privilege of being able to be quirky and act like real people. We have all seen the quotes of their funny sayings in-game, we all see the prevalent meme and pop culture references, and I think the vast majority of us love it. For me, it was one of the things that turned me on to the game in the first place. And as for the "offensive" statements, I feel that they are essentially no different that what I am saying now. People were all up in arms over the "Bucket of Tears" and how insensitive it was and how they "insulted players" etc, etc. They were being rational, people. They said exactly what I have: you don't have to pay for it; life goes on; if you want it, you can have it.

And finally, the balance thing. I think everyone compares balance to DoTA because they can't seem to grasp the concept that this is a different game. It doesn't matter if our [insert port here] is different than [original]. They don't have all the S2 heroes, the same other balances, the same items... the list goes on and on. And, the longer this game continues, the more different it will be. As S2 grows away from DoTA (for the better) and develops more of its own heroes and items, the sense of DoTA balance that people so want to cling to will disappear even further, and I hope they realize that eventually. The people who claim all the "S2 Hero imba" never seem to be able to demonstrate it. As stated, more DoTA than S2 heroes are more often played, S2 heroes hardly dominate the competitive scene, and frankly the general population shouldn't be crying over a 1400 who can't dodge Myrmidon's fish. I've never seen a balance problem with this game (and, yes, I'm by no means pro), and apparently a large amount of needed balance fixes were just made - with the help of competitive players, I might add.

And yea, I know I just typed an essay. It needed to be said.


tl;dr -
1) you don't need to buy the Badass Pack. Seriously, you don't.
2) S2 is rational, not mean, and their jokes are hilarious
3) stop deciding things are unbalanced without a reason better than "I lost", and stop picking on S2 heroes when they clearly aren't any worse (if not better) than the others in terms of balance

Very well said, couldn't agree more.

Thank you for all the educated responses in this thread, I was expecting a lot of trolling and instead received an educated discussion that helps the situation a lot, I appreciate it. I have read a lot of things that I did not personally think of and make a lot of sense, keep it coming :)

[KingBane]

those two examples are side effects of using it improperly.

this is a direct kick in the balls if you miss your jump.

originally the put that drawback so panda's leap couldn't be used to chase or get away with, with the exception of cliff leaping. now it can be used to chase and run away with. i dont think that makes him imbalance. makes him easier to play and makes him a little bit stronger. dunno by how much though. although, no other stunner really has a stun that puts him into the fight, most ae stunners need a blink of some kind to achieve what panda can do with his cannonball alone, albeit with less range. but given that cannonball is 100 mana, while most other stuns are 140, throw in pk too 220 mana. that puts cannonball a little bit ahead.

[Good_Apollo]

Because people have played HoN so much they've gained nostalgic rose tinted glasses for DotA. Completely forgetting every gripe they've had over balance, gameplay, the meta game, ect from DotA.

[SmackTrick]

Freshtroll uses *troll forums*
Its super effective!
90% of forum follows the lead!

[Stonecold`]

When DotA2 comes out I have a plan. If the community in it really outshines the horrifying HoN community then I'll spend a good couple of days completely wrecking my stats and griefing as many games as I possibly can before i'm banned. If the communities are equally horrible I'll probably just end up playing them both intermittently.

[Testingrani]

Not all current DotA heroes will be ported to Dota 2.

[Testingrani]

Not all current DotA heroes will be ported to Dota 2.

[pindakaas]

I will never understand all the DoTA 2 hype or the S2 bashing. From basically everything we have learned, they intend to make DoTA 2 virtually identical to the original.
So you get better graphics - great, only took you 6 years, and HoN has that.
You get a better engine - great, HoN has the best I've seen; the match-recording and replay system is amazing (even despite losing some of the old ones, as seems to have happened), and even the website search features are great (sort by hero, clan, etc.)
You get DoTA heroes... cool. I know some of you are apparently willing to pay $50 for Morphling, and Valve seems to be banking on that, but I will keep the ones I've got, thanks. I do wish they'd port Lycan, though ;)

And as for all of this "S2 is greedy/out of touch/unprofessional/bad at balancing" that has been so rampant recently, I feel like the only people complaining are the ones who had some previous, unexplained beef with S2 and are using these non-issues as an excuse to rage.

Greedy? Uh, they are a company, and need money as such, so of course they would like if you payed $20 for a snazzy new voice pack, but you don't have to. People are acting as though they charged everyone's credit card $20 to keep their account active, or added a monthly sub (which, frankly, I already can't believe they don't have. When I saw it was $30 one time, I was stoked). Remember way back when, a week ago, when they didn't have that announcer pack, and life still went on? Guess what? If you don't spend $20 on it, it will be exactly the same.

Out of Touch/Unprofessional? S2 posts more on the forums and is more visible online than any company I've ever seen (except Octopi, now SOE Tuscon, but they have a player base of ~2000). They know what's going on, they clearly read the forums often, they host and watch all the tournies. Hell, they implemented player-designed symbols and skins and whatnot (even the "making a difference" shields). And "unprofessional?" Well, they are a small business, for all intents and purposes. They have the luxury and privilege of being able to be quirky and act like real people. We have all seen the quotes of their funny sayings in-game, we all see the prevalent meme and pop culture references, and I think the vast majority of us love it. For me, it was one of the things that turned me on to the game in the first place. And as for the "offensive" statements, I feel that they are essentially no different that what I am saying now. People were all up in arms over the "Bucket of Tears" and how insensitive it was and how they "insulted players" etc, etc. They were being rational, people. They said exactly what I have: you don't have to pay for it; life goes on; if you want it, you can have it.

And finally, the balance thing. I think everyone compares balance to DoTA because they can't seem to grasp the concept that this is a different game. It doesn't matter if our [insert port here] is different than [original]. They don't have all the S2 heroes, the same other balances, the same items... the list goes on and on. And, the longer this game continues, the more different it will be. As S2 grows away from DoTA (for the better) and develops more of its own heroes and items, the sense of DoTA balance that people so want to cling to will disappear even further, and I hope they realize that eventually. The people who claim all the "S2 Hero imba" never seem to be able to demonstrate it. As stated, more DoTA than S2 heroes are more often played, S2 heroes hardly dominate the competitive scene, and frankly the general population shouldn't be crying over a 1400 who can't dodge Myrmidon's fish. I've never seen a balance problem with this game (and, yes, I'm by no means pro), and apparently a large amount of needed balance fixes were just made - with the help of competitive players, I might add.

And yea, I know I just typed an essay. It needed to be said.


tl;dr -
1) you don't need to buy the Badass Pack. Seriously, you don't.
2) S2 is rational, not mean, and their jokes are hilarious
3) stop deciding things are unbalanced without a reason better than "I lost", and stop picking on S2 heroes when they clearly aren't any worse (if not better) than the others in terms of balance

Somebody give this man a medal.

You can't say a hero is imbalanced when there's two different games with two different meta games. He may be balanced in DotA but not in HoN and vice-versa.

Your argument is invalid.

[pmkaboo]

After reading a post made by Freshpro (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=225429) regarding the recent balance patch, there was one particular line that interested me when he said a lot of the competitive players are saying "just screw it, we go dota2 when it's out" he said this regarding recent imbalances he feels s2 has made. I'm not saying I agree or disagree but it did interest me)

What interested me was whether or not this statement is true, because (assuming valve ports every dota hero the way it is now as they have stated) the balancing of dota2 will be no better (if not worse) than HoN's. They will have a SW that is just as OP as the SW we had before this patch, they will have a DS with a better version of the unbreakable ability (one of the key imbalances freshpro highlighted) and of course the stupid heroes that will be autobanned in every competitive game such as techies. So why would all the competitive players move to a game that is probably going to end up less balanced than this one.

The typical response that will follow is "no OP S2 heroes in dota2" to that I say, how do you define s2 heroes as OP, take a look at the win % of the heroes in detailed hero statistics, at the time of this post there are 29 heroes either at or above 50% win, of these 29 heroes, there are 5 s2 heroes and 24 dota remakes, now to this you will say "yeah but there are more dota heroes". Turning to the other end of the scale, there are 10 heroes at or below 45% win, of these 10 heroes, 8 are s2 heroes and 2 are dota heroes. Furthermore in competitive games there is a general 8 dota heroes to 2 s2 heroes used in each game, not to mention the commonly banned heroes such as pharaoh, SW and TB are all dota heroes.

So I ask, how are the s2 heroes as OP as everyone says they are and why is dota2 so godlike in everyones mind
dota is dota bro. if you played it then you should understand

[EliCar]

stupid heroes that will be autobanned in every competitive game such as techies. So why would all the competitive players move to a game that is probably going to end up less balanced than this one.

Have you ever actually watched a competitive game? EVER? Like in the past 7 years?
I seriously doubt it since you bring up techies that is NEVER played or banned in competitive because all you need to counter him is a Gem of Truesight and Crow courier - but I guess people who have never played anything but random public games wouldn't know. Techies is a pub-messer hero & nothing more.

Then you talked about SW a.k.a Spectre... well the huge difference between DotA and HoN is assist gold for starters. Spectre on DotA doesn't press R & gain 600g from 3 kills he wasn't even really there for.

Now let's talk about balance:

-:pand: 100% Physical Hero... that alone is unbalanced late game. Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Scaling nuke
-:dead: Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Escape mech
-:dark: Slow + Silence + Escape mech + Scaling Nuke
-:gaun: Slow + Stun + Stun/Slow + Immobilize + Escape mech
-:mora: Slow + Stun + Nullstone + Shield that hurts
-:krak: Slow + Escape Mech + Hardnuke + Superior Magic ultimate
-:bomb: Slow + Stun + Global Ultimate
-:balp: AoE Silence + Cone Slow + AoE Slow
-:myrm: AoE Slow + Stun + AoE Stun + Slow on auto
-:stri: Op

Now let's look at random heroes from DotA:

-:warb: No slow... no silence... no stun
-:moon: No slow... no silence... a micro stun
-:hamm: Stun but no slow
-:wret: Slow but no stun
-:arma: Slow but no stun
-:magm: Stun but no slow
-:behe: Stun but no slow
-:wild: No slow or stun - random immobilize
-:souls: No stun or slow or silence
-:andr: Stun but no slow

The list could go through every hero... S2 heroes have Slows, Stuns & Silences galore. DotA ports do not.
This is why S2 heroes are considered OP.

The only DotA hero that has both a Stun & a silence or Slow is :bubb:. S2 heroes almost all have at least Slow & Stun of the Slow/Stun/Silence pool.

Now if you're wanting to talk about the competitive pool of Viable heroes on DotA... it's waaaay larger than HoN's and way more diverse. Basically DotA heroes have a specialty and are valid picks only in certain situations and HoN heroes are all-rounders.

S2 fails at balance. Look at the damn Dream website - the most popular heroes are the most imbalanced ones. Look at playdota.com heroe proposals - imbalanced ones are instantly trashed especially if the concept isn't incredible.

[Pinkie_Pye]

Dota 2 announced big game play changes. So it will be like LoL but worse. HoN is safe another year.

[Tedde]

Have you ever actually watched a competitive game? EVER? Like in the past 7 years?
I seriously doubt it since you bring up techies that is NEVER played or banned in competitive because all you need to counter him is a Gem of Truesight and Crow courier - but I guess people who have never played anything but random public games wouldn't know. Techies is a pub-messer hero & nothing more.

Then you talked about SW a.k.a Spectre... well the huge difference between DotA and HoN is assist gold for starters. Spectre on DotA doesn't press R & gain 600g from 3 kills he wasn't even really there for.

Now let's talk about balance:

-:pand: 100% Physical Hero... that alone is unbalanced late game. Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Scaling nuke
-:dead: Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Escape mech
-:dark: Slow + Silence + Escape mech + Scaling Nuke
-:gaun: Slow + Stun + Stun/Slow + Immobilize + Escape mech
-:mora: Slow + Stun + Nullstone + Shield that hurts
-:krak: Slow + Escape Mech + Hardnuke + Superior Magic ultimate
-:bomb: Slow + Stun + Global Ultimate
-:balp: AoE Silence + Cone Slow + AoE Slow
-:myrm: AoE Slow + Stun + AoE Stun + Slow on auto
-:stri: Op

Now let's look at random heroes from DotA:

-:warb: Insane mobility + damage boost + creeps get 522 speed
-:moon: damage aura + low cd nuke + hardnuke ulti
-:hamm: hardnuke aoe stun + movement speed buff + inbuilt splash + super autoattacks
-:wret: slow + blink + hardnuke with slow
-:arma: Slow + damage resistance + extra damage on spell cast
-:magm: Stunblink + invis with damage + free pushing + hardnuke slowing ulti
-:behe: Stun with movement blocker + super hard autoattack + hardnuke aoe rape ulti
-:wild: No slow or stun - random immobilize... yeah, he's bad
-:souls: Best farmer in the game until the 35 minute mark + 900 magic damage + free sword of the high + armor reduction + super damaging ulti with slow
-:andr: Stun + reveal and attack and armor reduction + attack damage aura + displacement and sacrificing/saving ability

The list could go through every hero... S2 heroes have Slows, Stuns & Silences galore. DotA ports do not.
This is why S2 heroes are considered OP.

The only DotA hero that has both a Stun & a silence or Slow is :bubb:. S2 heroes almost all have at least Slow & Stun of the Slow/Stun/Silence pool.

Now if you're wanting to talk about the competitive pool of Viable heroes on DotA... it's waaaay larger than HoN's and way more diverse. Basically DotA heroes have a specialty and are valid picks only in certain situations and HoN heroes are all-rounders.

S2 fails at balance. Look at the damn Dream website - the most popular heroes are the most imbalanced ones. Look at playdota.com heroe proposals - imbalanced ones are instantly trashed especially if the concept isn't incredible.

See what I did thar?

[Sonicle]

Because DotA is just ****ing better.

http://d.imagehost.org/0425/Deal_With_It_Kirby.jpg

[EliCar]

See what I did thar?

I see that you're stupid and missing my point entirely - and that you clearly don't understand what balance is about.

Awesome to notice that :warb: has 522 MS for 16 seconds with 60 seconds cooldown. Basically he can't kill anyone with a stun + escape mech and is at a risk of dying when going up against most of the S2 heroes on this list.

And :souls: being the best farmer in game till the 35m mark? Sure he can double raze creep waves and kill them. But you're only the best farmer if there is something to farm. On a single lane you can't farm more than your opponent. Not only that but he also is one of the weakest heroes in game - low base STR - low base Armor - low agility gain & no escape mechanism.

And as I've said : S2 have ALL ROUNDER HEROES. Jack of all trades but certainly not masters of none.
DotA heroes have specialties such as :moon: being a multi-attack character (Glaive bounce & Ultimate hitting random targets).

The basic idea is that DotA heroes can be countered fairly easily (:souls: mid? Pick :dead:) whereas S2 heroes can't really (:dead: mid?) be countered directly.

Now instead of being a half-assed sucker that tries to divert attention to things that have no sway on the subject... try to stick to the topic so you don't waste my time proving you're wrong?

[Allnighte]

if you follow the valve interviews between november and january, you'd see that dota 2 went from:
"all heroes ported, everything ported exactly the same"
to
"most of your favorite heroes [we now have a "confirmed port list"]" and "the core gameplay isnt changing" which is basically saying they're not porting dota over exactly.

[Berethorn]

Have you ever actually watched a competitive game? EVER? Like in the past 7 years?
I seriously doubt it since you bring up techies that is NEVER played or banned in competitive because all you need to counter him is a Gem of Truesight and Crow courier - but I guess people who have never played anything but random public games wouldn't know. Techies is a pub-messer hero & nothing more.

Then you talked about SW a.k.a Spectre... well the huge difference between DotA and HoN is assist gold for starters. Spectre on DotA doesn't press R & gain 600g from 3 kills he wasn't even really there for.

Now let's talk about balance:

-:pand: 100% Physical Hero... that alone is unbalanced late game. Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Scaling nuke
-:dead: Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Escape mech
-:dark: Slow + Silence + Escape mech + Scaling Nuke
-:gaun: Slow + Stun + Stun/Slow + Immobilize + Escape mech
-:mora: Slow + Stun + Nullstone + Shield that hurts
-:krak: Slow + Escape Mech + Hardnuke + Superior Magic ultimate
-:bomb: Slow + Stun + Global Ultimate
-:balp: AoE Silence + Cone Slow + AoE Slow
-:myrm: AoE Slow + Stun + AoE Stun + Slow on auto
-:stri: Op

Now let's look at random heroes from DotA:

-:warb: No slow... no silence... no stun
-:moon: No slow... no silence... a micro stun
-:hamm: Stun but no slow
-:wret: Slow but no stun
-:arma: Slow but no stun
-:magm: Stun but no slow
-:behe: Stun but no slow
-:wild: No slow or stun - random immobilize
-:souls: No stun or slow or silence
-:andr: Stun but no slow

The list could go through every hero... S2 heroes have Slows, Stuns & Silences galore. DotA ports do not.
This is why S2 heroes are considered OP.

The only DotA hero that has both a Stun & a silence or Slow is :bubb:. S2 heroes almost all have at least Slow & Stun of the Slow/Stun/Silence pool.

Now if you're wanting to talk about the competitive pool of Viable heroes on DotA... it's waaaay larger than HoN's and way more diverse. Basically DotA heroes have a specialty and are valid picks only in certain situations and HoN heroes are all-rounders.

S2 fails at balance. Look at the damn Dream website - the most popular heroes are the most imbalanced ones. Look at playdota.com heroe proposals - imbalanced ones are instantly trashed especially if the concept isn't incredible.

Not sure if srs...

Only S2 heroes that you listed that can be considerd OP are :myrm: :bomb:

[Allnighte]

I see that you're stupid and missing my point entirely - and that you clearly don't understand what balance is about.

Awesome to notice that :warb: has 522 MS for 16 seconds with 60 seconds cooldown. Basically he can't kill anyone with a stun + escape mech and is at a risk of dying when going up against most of the S2 heroes on this list.

And :souls: being the best farmer in game till the 35m mark? Sure he can double raze creep waves and kill them. But you're only the best farmer if there is something to farm. On a single lane you can't farm more than your opponent. Not only that but he also is one of the weakest heroes in game - low base STR - low base Armor - low agility gain & no escape mechanism.

And as I've said : S2 have ALL ROUNDER HEROES. Jack of all trades but certainly not masters of none.
DotA heroes have specialties such as :moon: being a multi-attack character (Glaive bounce & Ultimate hitting random targets).

The basic idea is that DotA heroes can be countered fairly easily (:souls: mid? Pick :dead:) whereas S2 heroes can't really (:dead: mid?) be countered directly.

Now instead of being a half-assed sucker that tries to divert attention to things that have no sway on the subject... try to stick to the topic so you don't waste my time proving you're wrong?

you just said that deadwood and moraxus have escape mechanisms, but wretched hag, magmus, and behemoth apparently only have stuns OR slows. and certainly no escape mech.

really?

so maybe you should go back and fix your post before you want to try and extrapolate more of an argument from it. tedde was 100% right when he fixed your post. your post was like the fox news version of hon vs dota.

[Lost_Prophet]

The list could go through every hero... S2 heroes have Slows, Stuns & Silences galore. DotA ports do not.
:witc: Stun + Disable
:glac: AoE Slow + Hold
:poll: Hold + Disable (+ Disable if wardtrapping)
:blac: Stun + AoE Slow + Insane Buff
:doct: Stun + Repeatable slow + Infinite Escape Mech
:phar: Mini Stuns + 6 second immobilize + 3000 range stun/blink
:tund: Slow + Stun + Free Map Hawk

And I would say 5/7 of those heroes are played/banned far more often in top tier games than all but 5 or so on both your lists combined.

[EliCar]

you just said that deadwood and moraxus have escape mechanisms, but wretched hag, magmus, and behemoth apparently only have stuns OR slows. and certainly no escape mech.

really?

so maybe you should go back and fix your post before you want to try and extrapolate more of an argument from it. tedde was 100% right when he fixed your post. your post was like the fox news version of hon vs dota.

Did I say something about Hag? ;)

Read correctly please... I understand what you're trying to do but you're playing with half of the cards.

STUNS + SLOWS + ESCAPE MECHS.

Does Hag have Stun/Silence + Slow/Silence + Escape mech?

This is my point : S2 heroes have nearly everything in a single bundle - DotA heroes don't.
Now please go ahead and prove me wrong (you're welcome to agree) now that you understand my point since I guess you're smarter than the other ass-wipes that usually lurk around here.

[Tedde]

And :souls: being the best farmer in game till the 35m mark? Sure he can double raze creep waves and kill them. But you're only the best farmer if there is something to farm. On a single lane you can't farm more than your opponent. Not only that but he also is one of the weakest heroes in game - low base STR - low base Armor - low agility gain & no escape mechanism.

The basic idea is that DotA heroes can be countered fairly easily (:souls: mid? Pick :dead:) whereas S2 heroes can't really (:dead: mid?) be countered directly.

Ya soulstealer is clearly ****... It's not like he can take out triple stacks and tp to other lanes and continue farming.

Pebbles, doctor, slither and bomb are solid counters to dw mid.

[EliCar]

:witc: Stun + Disable
:glac: AoE Slow + Hold
:poll: Hold + Disable (+ Disable if wardtrapping)
:blac: Stun + AoE Slow + Insane Buff
:doct: Stun + Repeatable slow + Infinite Escape Mech
:phar: Mini Stuns + 6 second immobilize + 3000 range stun/blink
:tund: Slow + Stun + Free Map Hawk

And I would say 5/7 of those heroes are played/banned far more often in top tier games than all but 5 or so on both your lists combined.

:poll: Hold = 1/1 ability (they can't move but you can't either)
:glac: Hold isn't a hold but an immobilize - they can still cast spells.
:tund: Stun is his ultimate. Slow is based off a secondary unit with 400 hp.
:phar: Stun/Blink is less than 1 second and is an ultimate with 80 seconds CD (20 with Staff).

:doct: has always been said to be imba since his remake (his original version was ****).

But since you're set on giving me a shitty list of such things:

:dark:
- Silence for 8.5 seconds and gives +80% damage boost with 10 seconds cooldown.
- Escape/Initiation Mech gives +75% attack speed for 6 seconds with a 9 seconds cooldown. 900 range. Deals 100% of your damage in AoE (scales)
- Slow lasts 5 seconds with 12 seconds cooldown. 1100 range.

Let's dive deeper into various skills of an example YOU gave.

:glac:
- Slow 4.5 seconds duration 15 seconds cooldown also deals 230 damage
- Immobilize 3 seconds for 70 dps > 10 seconds cooldown

Escape mech/silence/stun : NONE.

Should I run a complete list of S2 hero BASE STATS and STATS GAIN to compare them to DotA ports so you understand just how damn OP they are? The list of heroes you gave are mainly support and are played because of that : Empath/Myrm are played just as much when it boils down to support.

[Wootshi]

I honestly don't get :plag: buff. Srsly, wtf. Tort if wierd too, the buff itself is really nice, but long casting times should stay imo. Almost all others i'm agree with, except heroes that got untouched and still require some work, like :engi:,:fayd:,:dead: and others.
I don't say they're OP or something, it just that they require some attention imo.

[EliCar]

Ya soulstealer is clearly ****... It's not like he can take out triple stacks and tp to other lanes and continue farming.

Pebbles, doctor, slither and bomb are solid counters to dw mid.

Only :doct: is a solid counter actually - and then again he isn't really because he lacks the damage output in terms of denying his own creeps. If :dead: gets to lvl 6 before you do: You're dead.

And if you still believe that the others or even :doct: are solid counters to :dead: mid, I suggest we have a 1v1 with Obs (from this thread) so I can prove to you just how damn wrong you are.
The thing is though that Pebbles/DR have way more late game power since Pebbles can basically combo ever 15 seconds & DR can do anything as long as he has mana.

And I've never said anything about soul stealers farming ability - it's not the ability but what there IS to farm. I'd like to see a :souls: that gets ganked into oblivion farm or even score a kill (vs Decent players in an inhouse who actually WARD your woods). And going to TP to another Lane? If you have more than 3 people needing farm in your team that simply won't be possible.
And trust me... my SS clearly is above yours (I have 8.7 KDR and 159 CK/20m average and you have 1.34 and 72 CK/20m [SS stats]) - don't talk about what you know nothing of.

Basically you just advanced a bullshit argument that I had to counter with senseless crap also which pisses me off. You know well I'm right.

[Lost_Prophet]

You're theorycrafting.

"Oh, based on numbers these heroes look overpowered."

But they're not. For all TDL's slows, silences, escape mechs, and + damage, she's still underpowered as a hero. Glacius gets picked up in higher level games on a consistent basis.

[Tedde]

Only :doct: is a solid counter actually - and then again he isn't really because he lacks the damage output in terms of denying his own creeps. If :dead: gets to lvl 6 before you do: You're dead.

And if you still believe that the others or even :doct: are solid counters to :dead: mid, I suggest we have a 1v1 with Obs (from this thread) so I can prove to you just how damn wrong you are.
The thing is though that Pebbles/DR have way more late game power since Pebbles can basically combo ever 15 seconds & DR can do anything as long as he has mana.

And I've never said anything about soul stealers farming ability - it's not the ability but what there IS to farm. I'd like to see a :souls: that gets ganked into oblivion farm or even score a kill (vs Decent players in an inhouse who actually WARD your woods). And going to TP to another Lane? If you have more than 3 people needing farm in your team that simply won't be possible.
And trust me... my SS clearly is above yours (I have 8.7 KDR and 159 CK/20m average and you have 1.34 and 72 CK/20m [SS stats]) - don't talk about what you know nothing of.

Basically you just advanced a bullshit argument that I had to counter with senseless crap also which pisses me off. You know well I'm right.

So bringing up my SS stats vs your SS stats makes you right yo.

[wikkedwhite]

IMO s2 is preparing to be f2p n pay
For skins n such when dota2 releases, it's gonna hit all moba games like a train.

[bolonypony]

Have you ever actually watched a competitive game? EVER? Like in the past 7 years?
I seriously doubt it since you bring up techies that is NEVER played or banned in competitive because all you need to counter him is a Gem of Truesight and Crow courier - but I guess people who have never played anything but random public games wouldn't know. Techies is a pub-messer hero & nothing more.

Then you talked about SW a.k.a Spectre... well the huge difference between DotA and HoN is assist gold for starters. Spectre on DotA doesn't press R & gain 600g from 3 kills he wasn't even really there for.

Now let's talk about balance:

-:pand: 100% Physical Hero... that alone is unbalanced late game. Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Scaling nuke
-:dead: Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Escape mech
-:dark: Slow + Silence + Escape mech + Scaling Nuke
-:gaun: Slow + Stun + Stun/Slow + Immobilize + Escape mech
-:mora: Slow + Stun + Nullstone + Shield that hurts
-:krak: Slow + Escape Mech + Hardnuke + Superior Magic ultimate
-:bomb: Slow + Stun + Global Ultimate
-:balp: AoE Silence + Cone Slow + AoE Slow
-:myrm: AoE Slow + Stun + AoE Stun + Slow on auto
-:stri: Op

Now let's look at random heroes from DotA:

-:warb: No slow... no silence... no stun
-:moon: No slow... no silence... a micro stun
-:hamm: Stun but no slow
-:wret: Slow but no stun
-:arma: Slow but no stun
-:magm: Stun but no slow
-:behe: Stun but no slow
-:wild: No slow or stun - random immobilize
-:souls: No stun or slow or silence
-:andr: Stun but no slow

The list could go through every hero... S2 heroes have Slows, Stuns & Silences galore. DotA ports do not.
This is why S2 heroes are considered OP.

The only DotA hero that has both a Stun & a silence or Slow is :bubb:. S2 heroes almost all have at least Slow & Stun of the Slow/Stun/Silence pool.

Now if you're wanting to talk about the competitive pool of Viable heroes on DotA... it's waaaay larger than HoN's and way more diverse. Basically DotA heroes have a specialty and are valid picks only in certain situations and HoN heroes are all-rounders.

S2 fails at balance. Look at the damn Dream website - the most popular heroes are the most imbalanced ones. Look at playdota.com heroe proposals - imbalanced ones are instantly trashed especially if the concept isn't incredible.

You already know this is biased in order to make your point look better. I don't see panda first picked in competitive tournaments even though he's completely OP. Same with balphagore.

Most of the heroes you listed fill a niche roll and are usually passed for a dota port. Witch, voodoo, and glacius are banned or are in nearly every comp game I watch. If the S2 heroes were as overpowered as you would have them, they would be picked/banned every game.

Also, look at the latest hero, empath, she has one pseudo stun and a wall. As for bombadier, his stun isn't exactly the easiest to get right, and he only has the one. You think if he had just his stun or his slow he'd be able to compete with any other heroes at all? Dampeer has one CC ability, you seem to have missed that.

Also, there are heroes from dota that have both stun and slow, :hell: :devo: :witc:, wow you really were biased.

[Devodka]

dota is dota bro. if you played it then you should understand
It's just a jersey thing yo

[wikkedwhite]

Come at me bro!

[DtMage]

Omg S2 gave a little buff to the hero no one ever picked in competitive games or in pubs, Tortuter. Jeez mah balance is out the window now.

[Aconit]

Guys dota has:

Morph, Balanar, techies, STUNLOCK, Meepo . . . what are you talking about? Balance?

[ThySwamplord]

@YoT
:pest:

[dandylion]

Have you ever actually watched a competitive game? EVER? Like in the past 7 years?
I seriously doubt it since you bring up techies that is NEVER played or banned in competitive because all you need to counter him is a Gem of Truesight and Crow courier - but I guess people who have never played anything but random public games wouldn't know. Techies is a pub-messer hero & nothing more.

Then you talked about SW a.k.a Spectre... well the huge difference between DotA and HoN is assist gold for starters. Spectre on DotA doesn't press R & gain 600g from 3 kills he wasn't even really there for.

Now let's talk about balance:

-:pand: 100% Physical Hero... that alone is unbalanced late game. Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Scaling nuke
How is that imbalanced? Every hero has scaling armor the longer the game progresses, meaning the skills LOSE effectiveness the longer the game goes. Magic armor remains consistent throughout the game without purchasing ONE specific item.
-:dead: Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Escape mech
(it's only an immobilize, you can still cast, and calling the ult a hard nuke and then not saying a word about pyromancer or witchslayer is retarded)
-:dark: Slow + Silence + Escape mech + Scaling Nuke
(scaling nuke? You mean a carry scales with damage? No way)
-:gaun: Slow + Stun + Stun/Slow + Immobilize + Escape mech
-:mora: Slow + Stun + Nullstone + Shield that hurts
(someone doesn't know how to counter a moraxus it seems, lulz)
-:krak: Slow + Escape Mech + Hardnuke + Superior Magic ultimate
(hard nuke? LOL. Because gush deals sooo much damage to that whole one target, right. You've obviously never played against Tidehunter...)
-:bomb: Slow + Stun + Global Ultimate
-:balp: AoE Silence + Cone Slow + AoE Slow
-:myrm: AoE Slow + Stun + AoE Stun + Slow on auto
(same thing here, Jakiro (Twin Headed Dragon) had delayed stun, AOE slow, and a much more devastating team fight AOE DoT)
-:stri: Op

Now let's look at random heroes from DotA:

-:warb: No slow... no silence... no stun
(or in terms of your list, he has at least an escape mechanism, and in dota, his wolves DID have a stun, herp)
-:moon: No slow... no silence... a micro stun
(don't forget to mention hard nuke on a miniscule cooldown, bouncing damage with passive aura amplifier, and an ultimate that can virtually instagib any lone target)
-:hamm: Stun but no slow
-:wret: Slow but no stun
(two abilities can slow here)
-:arma: Slow but no stun
(permanently stacking slow... you can indefinitely apply it to a single target)
-:magm: Stun but no slow
(but his ult slows, herp?)
-:behe: Stun but no slow
(hey, but three of his moves can stun, herp)
-:wild: No slow or stun - random immobilize
(it's not so random anymore, and his passive speed gain could be considered an escape mechanism by your standards)
-:souls: No stun or slow or silence
(you forgot to mention that he can deal 900 magic damage to multiple targets in less than a second, and then instagib any heroes within melee range of him that have less than 1600 health)
-:andr: Stun but no slow
(you forgot to mention an incredibly useful displacement tool on an incredibly low cooldown)

The list could go through every hero... S2 heroes have Slows, Stuns & Silences galore. DotA ports do not. (orly? let me enlighten your intentionally selective list...)

-:poll: two single target stuns, can trap opponents with ult, and an AOE nuke on a very low cooldown (you don't even have to aim it)
-:flin: passive stun on 40% of auto attacks WITH damage boost, ultimate is a "hard nuke" and an AOE slow
-:phar: on activation "trap", ministun to a single target within melee range, an ultimate that stuns, and a global AOE nuke on a tiny cooldown
-:vood: bouncing stun, HUGE aoe damage amplifier, and an ultimate that can WRECK anybody within range within a very short period of time
-:temp: one of the strongest AOE ultimates that can decide a fight in the game when done correctly, a long lasting repetitive stun
-:doct: incredible escape mechanism, slow on auto attacks, ranged stun
-:glad: displacement tool, invisible AOE delayed stun, AOE stun ultimate that increases friendly movement speed, oh and lets not forget the scaling whip
-:pebb: instagibs any hero with less than 1000 health. Nuff said.
-:pyro: huge AOE nuke, huge AOE stun, single target massive nuke
-:sand: global ult, AOE slow, escape mechanism, and heaven forbid an enemy be alone somewhere, because they WILL die
-:witc: AOE linear stun, single target polymorph, and single target massive nuke


Rest of YoT's post is garbage. I could pick and choose single heroes, claiming every single ability was drastically overpowered if it was made by S2 and selectively choose a list of DotA heroes, and then ignore certain aspects of their capabilities to try and further my point too.

[Otolia]

After reading a post made by Freshpro (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=225429) regarding the recent balance patch, there was one particular line that interested me when he said a lot of the competitive players are saying "just screw it, we go dota2 when it's out" he said this regarding recent imbalances he feels s2 has made. I'm not saying I agree or disagree but it did interest me)

If you knew what Freshpro is doing asides from being in MSI you would know that he already stated he intended to play both DotA2 and HoN. Plus the thread you mention is a troll lure.

Go crawl in this hole of yours.

[W1nch3st35]

good post, also Doombrigner have ben perma banned since forever :)

[Berethorn]

IMO s2 is preparing to be f2p n pay
For skins n such when dota2 releases, it's gonna hit all moba games like a train.

They preparing for a game that comes out in 2 years, heard it here first.

[ZyV]

Originally Posted by Lanzy http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=13121879#post13121879)
stupid heroes that will be autobanned in every competitive game such as techies. So why would all the competitive players move to a game that is probably going to end up less balanced than this one.

Have you ever actually watched a competitive game? EVER? Like in the past 7 years?
I seriously doubt it since you bring up techies that is NEVER played or banned in competitive because all you need to counter him is a Gem of Truesight and Crow courier - but I guess people who have never played anything but random public games wouldn't know. Techies is a pub-messer hero & nothing more.

Ok so you are trying to look smart... but you failed.
Have you any idea about what "autobanned" means ?
Did you even noticed he said "autobanned" and not banned ?
So here we go, "autobanned" means that both teams agree NOT to pick one or more heroes w/o wasting a ban on him/them.
When one hero is completly broken autoban agreement is generally tacit (=> Techies).



Then you talked about SW a.k.a Spectre... well the huge difference between DotA and HoN is assist gold for starters. Spectre on DotA doesn't press R & gain 600g from 3 kills he wasn't even really there for.Because apart from that, the gold system in HoN and dota (http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/Gold) is exactly the same, rite ?
No it is not.
And there are also a few MINOR differences between SW and Spectre :



:sand: Sand Wraith
- Desert's Curse linger time lowered from 7 seconds to 3 seconds
- Dissipate range reduced from 1000 to 700 AoE
- Dissipate damage reduction and damage return lowered from 5/10/15/20% to 4/8/12/16%

Spectre
spectral dagger Buff lasts for 4 seconds after Mercurial leaves shadow path.
Dispersion Full damage is dealt in a 300 AoE around Spectre, the damage dealt decreases linearly from a 300 distance to a 1000 distance from Spectre, damage reduction/return 10/14/18/22%.




Now let's talk about balance
[...]
Now if you're wanting to talk about the competitive pool of Viable heroes on DotA... it's waaaay larger than HoN's and way more diverse. Basically DotA heroes have a specialty and are valid picks only in certain situations and HoN heroes are all-rounders.Heroes pools =>
Dota : 103
HoN : 74 today, +1 on friday.

So the difference is less than 30.
Among thoose we have heroes that idd are valid only in certain situations, so let me give a few examples (non exhaustive list) while talking a bit about balance :

-STR
Tauren Chieftain (XD)
Pandaren (btw : stun + slow + evasion + crit + balanced ulti)
Guardian Wisp (btw : slow + stun + burst + buff + team escape mechanism)
Dragon Knight (btw : aoe burst + stun + buff + ulti with splah and slow and ms)
Magnataur (btw : burst + slow + buff + charge + ulti aoe stun and damage)
Tide Hunter (btw : burst + slow + armor reduce + buff + "cleave" + really balanced and difficult to land ulti)
Tuskar (btw : slow + stun + burst + slow)

-AGI
Phantom Lancer (VERY VERY well balanced)
Naga Siren (XD)
Morphling (XD)
Meepo (VERY well balanced)
Mortred (XD)

-INT
INVOKER (btw : he has everything and even MOAR)

Do I need to continue ???


S2 fails at balance. Look at the damn Dream website - the most popular heroes are the most imbalanced ones. Look at playdota.com heroe proposals - imbalanced ones are instantly trashed especially if the concept isn't incredible.Not sure if serious, how is S2 balancing "skill" related to Dream ?



I see that you're stupid and missing my point entirely - and that you clearly don't understand what balance is about.Waow because you CLEARLY do.


Awesome to notice that :warb: has 522 MS for 16 seconds with 60 seconds cooldown. Basically he can't kill anyone...Sry but this is worth ROFLMAO.


And as I've said : S2 have ALL ROUNDER HEROES. Jack of all trades but certainly not masters of none.
DotA heroes have specialties...Sure, Pandaren, Guardian Wisp, Dragon Knight, Magnataur, Tide Hunter, Tuskar, INVOKER,... are not ALL ROUNDER HEROES, they are soooooooooooooooooooooooooo specialized.

And... I stopped reading and caring when you claimed "S2 heroes can't really be countered directly" using :dead: mid? to demonstrate your point.

:WardOfSight: wants to talk to you YoT.

[wza]

The answer to this is simple.


Even the dota clones are not carbon copies.

All these dota heroes in hon have different stats, and some have one ability that is completely different.

so Argument invalid

/thread

[Tumultuous]

Ok so you are trying to look smart... but you failed.
Have you any idea about what "autobanned" means ?
Did you even noticed he said "autobanned" and not banned ?
So here we go, "autobanned" means that both teams agree NOT to pick one or more heroes w/o wasting a ban on him/them.
When one hero is completly broken autoban agreement is generally tacit (=> Techies).


Because apart from that, the gold system in HoN and dota (http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/Gold) is exactly the same, rite ?
No it is not.
And there are also a few MINOR differences between SW and Spectre :


Heroes pools =>
Dota : 103
HoN : 74 today, +1 on friday.

So the difference is less than 30.
Among thoose we have heroes that idd are valid only in certain situations, so let me give a few examples (non exhaustive list) while talking a bit about balance :

-STR
Tauren Chieftain (XD)
Pandaren (btw : stun + slow + evasion + crit + balanced ulti)
Guardian Wisp (btw : slow + stun + burst + buff + team escape mechanism)
Dragon Knight (btw : aoe burst + stun + buff + ulti with splah and slow and ms)
Magnataur (btw : burst + slow + buff + charge + ulti aoe stun and damage)
Tide Hunter (btw : burst + slow + armor reduce + buff + "cleave" + really balanced and difficult to land ulti)
Tuskar (btw : slow + stun + burst + slow)

-AGI
Phantom Lancer (VERY VERY well balanced)
Naga Siren (XD)
Morphling (XD)
Meepo (VERY well balanced)
Mortred (XD)

-INT
INVOKER (btw : he has everything and even MOAR)

Do I need to continue ???

Not sure if serious, how is S2 balancing "skill" related to Dream ?


Waow because you CLEARLY do.

Sry but this is worth ROFLMAO.

Sure, Pandaren, Guardian Wisp, Dragon Knight, Magnataur, Tide Hunter, Tuskar, INVOKER,... are not ALL ROUNDER HEROES, they are soooooooooooooooooooooooooo specialized.

And... I stopped reading and caring when you claimed "S2 heroes can't really be countered directly" using :dead: mid? to demonstrate your point.

:WardOfSight: wants to talk to you YoT.

win.

[Sheapy]

Ignore Listing/Ban Listing YoT. This guy is an idiot

[SmashNess]

Wow this topic shows why discuss balance with random forum players is useless.

I was thinking about leaving my opinion here, but it's gonna be a waste, so w/e

[UCF_Knightro]

They will have a SW that is just as OP as the SW we had before this patch, they will have a DS with a better version of the unbreakable ability (one of the key imbalances freshpro highlighted) and of course the stupid heroes that will be autobanned in every competitive game such as techies.

So I ask, how are the s2 heroes as OP as everyone says they are and why is dota2 so godlike in everyones mind


rofllllll
i nearly died when he said that techies is autobanned in every competitive game

and fyi dazzle (demented) 's skill only prevents you from dying for 5 seconds, it does not actually grant bonus damage, nor does it heal like demented's skill does

and sandwraith does not have the ricidculous assist gold in dota that he does in hon, therefore despite having stronger skills he is still a weaker hero

i rest my case

[`AvET]

Imma gonna let you finish .... but to be honest when you watch honcast it gets too much repetetive, thats why people chose DotA2(ofc more heroes, more tactic), i remeber when I played DotA1 it was awsome couse evry game was diffrent in its aspect and yes I must say Dota has a more friendly community. Yet again as my opinion, I will maybe buy DotA2 or not couse I already got HoN and I expect from HoN alot after DotA2 relise if they want to WIN the players over look at this as a good thing, worst case scenario as might be expected 80% S2 abandons the game, its patches and just turns back to the community.

[Radov]

:poll: Hold = 1/1 ability (they can't move but you can't either)
:glac: Hold isn't a hold but an immobilize - they can still cast spells.
:tund: Stun is his ultimate. Slow is based off a secondary unit with 400 hp.
:phar: Stun/Blink is less than 1 second and is an ultimate with 80 seconds CD (20 with Staff).

:doct: has always been said to be imba since his remake (his original version was ****).

But since you're set on giving me a shitty list of such things:

:dark:
- Silence for 8.5 seconds and gives +80% damage boost with 10 seconds cooldown.
- Escape/Initiation Mech gives +75% attack speed for 6 seconds with a 9 seconds cooldown. 900 range. Deals 100% of your damage in AoE (scales)
- Slow lasts 5 seconds with 12 seconds cooldown. 1100 range.

Let's dive deeper into various skills of an example YOU gave.

:glac:
- Slow 4.5 seconds duration 15 seconds cooldown also deals 230 damage
- Immobilize 3 seconds for 70 dps > 10 seconds cooldown

Escape mech/silence/stun : NONE.

Should I run a complete list of S2 hero BASE STATS and STATS GAIN to compare them to DotA ports so you understand just how damn OP they are? The list of heroes you gave are mainly support and are played because of that : Empath/Myrm are played just as much when it boils down to support.


1-Sir try laning emp+myrm vs Ws+Pyro or Plague+Swift, you'll learn instantly what this game is all about.
2-Tundra slow worthless? want to see you take down the 400 hp unit, apparently tundra wont do anything, he'll be just watching as you attack the unit (btw 400 hp early game is even easier to kill. Get some micro instead of complaining).
3-Pharao's ult is 1 sec, how about the mummies? (btw his stun can be landed on many heroes at the same time IF you know how to play so you got 2 AoE stuns).
4-Pollywog gets 2 stuns and with ward trap he could be 3 stuns. Seems like the best disabler in the whole game imo.
5-Glacius CAN escape while vindicator can't, lets not say that a stun wont save you cause then only blinkers have an escape mech.
6- If you have some complain about s2 hero lets see the most gamebreaking hero if played correctly :behe::behe::behe::behe::behe::behe::behe::behe::b ehe::behe::behe::behe: want to talk about stuns? talk to that guy.

[SAAANCHIPS]

wow.. reading ZyV's post really made me miss dragon knight =[... *sadpanda*

it was the first dota hero i ever played.. and i got utterly destroyed... but i loved him

[Lanzy]

Ok so you are trying to look smart... but you failed.
Have you any idea about what "autobanned" means ?
Did you even noticed he said "autobanned" and not banned ?
So here we go, "autobanned" means that both teams agree NOT to pick one or more heroes w/o wasting a ban on him/them.
When one hero is completly broken autoban agreement is generally tacit (=> Techies).


Because apart from that, the gold system in HoN and dota (http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/Gold) is exactly the same, rite ?
No it is not.
And there are also a few MINOR differences between SW and Spectre :







Heroes pools =>
Dota : 103
HoN : 74 today, +1 on friday.

So the difference is less than 30.
Among thoose we have heroes that idd are valid only in certain situations, so let me give a few examples (non exhaustive list) while talking a bit about balance :

-STR
Tauren Chieftain (XD)
Pandaren (btw : stun + slow + evasion + crit + balanced ulti)
Guardian Wisp (btw : slow + stun + burst + buff + team escape mechanism)
Dragon Knight (btw : aoe burst + stun + buff + ulti with splah and slow and ms)
Magnataur (btw : burst + slow + buff + charge + ulti aoe stun and damage)
Tide Hunter (btw : burst + slow + armor reduce + buff + "cleave" + really balanced and difficult to land ulti)
Tuskar (btw : slow + stun + burst + slow)

-AGI
Phantom Lancer (VERY VERY well balanced)
Naga Siren (XD)
Morphling (XD)
Meepo (VERY well balanced)
Mortred (XD)

-INT
INVOKER (btw : he has everything and even MOAR)

Do I need to continue ???

Not sure if serious, how is S2 balancing "skill" related to Dream ?


Waow because you CLEARLY do.

Sry but this is worth ROFLMAO.

Sure, Pandaren, Guardian Wisp, Dragon Knight, Magnataur, Tide Hunter, Tuskar, INVOKER,... are not ALL ROUNDER HEROES, they are soooooooooooooooooooooooooo specialized.

And... I stopped reading and caring when you claimed "S2 heroes can't really be countered directly" using :dead: mid? to demonstrate your point.

:WardOfSight: wants to talk to you YoT.

Very well written and an unbiased truthful comparison

[bear_hugger]

YoT is an idiot.

Queen of Pain is no where near Wretched Hag's caliber. Hag gets some significant buff from S2. If you dont know what i am talking about, i guess you havent played your Dota lately.

[Blaky039]

HoN is dead

[Sage]

OP makes a good point. S2 makes terrible heroes, off to dota2 we go.

[Green]

DotA also has like triple the heroes so you can't autoban everything and people have to actually think about their picks. A lot more interesting strategies exist. There's more to it than picking the best heroes, you have to actually think about what works well together and what will work well against what your opponents have.

Triple the heroes? Try not even double.


Panda's Cannon ball did get buffed, but the uniqueness of the ability is gone.
It used to be a Hit/Miss Reward/Punish ability, now it's just a leap-stun AoE.


Someone else has a leap stun aoe? Not to mention that it is even more unique due to being physical.

[dandylion]

Triple the heroes? Try not even double...

75 HoN heroes, 103 DotA heroes, and DotA has been around over 3 times as long...

Whoever wrote that was full of fail.

[EliCar]

Ok let's phrase this so even morons can understand:

Heroes who's Ultimate is a stun/slow and exceeds 30 seconds do NOT COUNT. I'm talking about skills you can use on a regular basis - anything inferior to 20 seconds.

About the :sand: being different from DotA? Yeah I know. But we're talking :sand: pre-nerf with the assist gold being ****ed up. That was my point.

Autobanned... so techies is autobanned? No he is NOT. Na'Vi used to play him from time to time in their setups. Please know what you're talking about... Oh and about competitive: DotA + Milo please (google) [another of my accounts on HoN is MiloTiS - True I Stand]. I was admin for Mouz gaming for a long period of time. I've seen more competitive games 1st hand than most players including competitive players on HoN who had no previous competitive DotA in them.

:pand: ? MSI ran a tri-lane that was UNDEFEATED until eG countered it - at the time vs MSI he was either banned or picked.

:tund:'s slow is worthless. Top players will rather kill the pig than focus the hero down - :souls: lands 1 Raze + 1 hit and the pig is dead. Pyromancer just needs to hit it with his wave + 1 hit etc. Tundra's value lies in the vision procured by the Hawk & the fact that his ultimate is the single longest sure duration stun in the game.

75 heroes vs 103 - I was talking about the OVERALL viability of the heroes in competitive play in numbers. If you take the times a hero was banned/picked in 10 games - HoN has a pool of a little over 15 and DotA's is a little over 30.

To the person that said I haven't played DotA lately... yeah I played Akasha/Tuskar/Medusa just yesterday. I know well that the Shadow Strike is applied via ultimate on HoN which makes her OP.

To the fool that made a list with Pandaren/TC/Magnus/Meepo etc.
#1 Pandaren's only stun is from the Earth Panda during his ultimate.
#2 TC's Slow is his ultimate & his stun breaks on damage.
#3 Magnus's stun is his ultimate - has no slow.
#4 Meepo has an immobilize that still allows you to cast spells.
#4 PL/Naga are easily countered by ES.
#5 of the Agility hero list you just gave, only Phantom Lancer has been played more than 5 times in over a 100 competitive games in the last year (there's a list on playdota).
#6 Invoker has a stun? He has a micro stun/disable/slow/silence/manadrain etc but he has no direct stun. Oh! He also requires skill to play.

I DID NOT BRING ULTIMATES UP FOR A REASON.

Pure 100% DotA ports (not modified like hag) are underpowered in most cases save :witc: who is overpowered in HoN due to Striders since his damn stun range is 700 and the AoE is larger than on DotA. But then again that doesn't make him a pure port does it?

Oh :pest:? His slow/stun is the same skill... having played him recently on DotA; the slow component on his stun is TRASH on HoN. Most players don't even know there's a slow.

Oh... here's also a great idea... how about you go lurk around google & try to figure out who the ****ed created The Butcher (Pudge) - that would be Milo... ME. The only skill I didn't create was Flesh Heap. So I believe I can balance things pretty damn well.

I rest my case with HoN morons as many more have already done in this thread. I know they understood what I was saying... which is what matters. See you all on DotA2 when you leave HoN.

PS: Aluna is a modified Version of Phantom Lancer (more OP) - Willing to bet my account on it.

[dandylion]

Ok let's phrase this so even morons can understand:

Heroes who's Ultimate is a stun/slow and exceeds 30 seconds do NOT COUNT. I'm talking about skills you can use on a regular basis - anything inferior to 20 seconds.

About the :sand: being different from DotA? Yeah I know. But we're talking :sand: pre-nerf with the assist gold being ****ed up. That was my point.

Autobanned... so techies is autobanned? No he is NOT. Na'Vi used to play him from time to time in their setups. Please know what you're talking about... Oh and about competitive: DotA + Milo please (google) [another of my accounts on HoN is MiloTiS - True I Stand]. I was admin for Mouz gaming for a long period of time. I've seen more competitive games 1st hand than most players including competitive players on HoN who had no previous competitive DotA in them.

:pand: ? MSI ran a tri-lane that was UNDEFEATED until eG countered it - at the time vs MSI he was either banned or picked.

:tund:'s slow is worthless. Top players will rather kill the pig than focus the hero down - :souls: lands 1 Raze + 1 hit and the pig is dead. Pyromancer just needs to hit it with his wave + 1 hit etc. Tundra's value lies in the vision procured by the Hawk & the fact that his ultimate is the single longest sure duration stun in the game.

75 heroes vs 103 - I was talking about the OVERALL viability of the heroes in competitive play in numbers. If you take the times a hero was banned/picked in 10 games - HoN has a pool of a little over 15 and DotA's is a little over 30.

To the person that said I haven't played DotA lately... yeah I played Akasha/Tuskar/Medusa just yesterday. I know well that the Shadow Strike is applied via ultimate on HoN which makes her OP.

To the fool that made a list with Pandaren/TC/Magnus/Meepo etc.
#1 Pandaren's only stun is from the Earth Panda during his ultimate.
#2 TC's Slow is his ultimate & his stun breaks on damage.
#3 Magnus's stun is his ultimate - has no slow.
#4 Meepo has an immobilize that still allows you to cast spells.
#4 PL/Naga are easily countered by ES.
#5 of the Agility hero list you just gave, only Phantom Lancer has been played more than 5 times in over a 100 competitive games in the last year (there's a list on playdota).
#6 Invoker has a stun? He has a micro stun/disable/slow/silence/manadrain etc but he has no direct stun. Oh! He also requires skill to play.

I DID NOT BRING ULTIMATES UP FOR A REASON.

Pure 100% DotA ports (not modified like hag) are underpowered in most cases save :witc: who is overpowered in HoN due to Striders since his damn stun range is 700 and the AoE is larger than on DotA. But then again that doesn't make him a pure port does it?

Oh :pest:? His slow/stun is the same skill... having played him recently on DotA; the slow component on his stun is TRASH on HoN. Most players don't even know there's a slow.

Oh... here's also a great idea... how about you go lurk around google & try to figure out who the ****ed created The Butcher (Pudge) - that would be Milo... ME. The only skill I didn't create was Flesh Heap. So I believe I can balance things pretty damn well.

I rest my case with HoN morons as many more have already done in this thread. I know they understood what I was saying... which is what matters. See you all on DotA2 when you leave HoN.

PS: Aluna is a modified Version of Phantom Lancer (more OP) - Willing to bet my account on it.

You say "ultimates don't count" but you made sure to count all of the S2 hero ultimates in your pretty little list and ignored virtually every dota hero ultimate.

Fact is, you're just trying to shape your arguments to prove your own point, which just about everyone in this thread has debunked in some way. You're choking on your own statements at this point.

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

[takzz]

Hon might have 75 heroes but 60 of them are dota heroes, so when S2 makes actual good heroes with UNIQUE SKILLS besides bits and piece of DOTA heroes then come back.

Lion Aka WS is a shitter hero in dota
QOP the same
you say pl is a unbalanced hero ? have you heard of behemoth/earthshaker ?
meepo, is only imbalanced if you go him one on one since its 4v1.
omg, scout is the only hero in either game who can dps close to 2k damage in 1 second.


lol balanced my ass.

[Travo]

I have to agree with YoT. He actually hit the nail on the head and makes alot of sense.

S2 heroes are all just about ganking and insta-gibbing. Thats why every fukin hero they make has a stun+snare etc...

Dota heroes usually dont have the all in one, which makes hero lineups very important. For example, a hag is good on ur team for the nukes and chase but no stuns.

The fact that S2 makes so many heroes with spells that go through magic immune is just retarded. Panda is SO op, all 4 of his moves not only disable, but all are unblockable. And someone compared deadwood ulti to pyro/witch slayer? thats weird, cuz deadwood ulti cooldown is WAYYYYYYY shorter compared to both of the others. Not to mention, physical dmg early game is much deadlier than magic, which is why deadwood ulti alwawys seems to one shot most heroes who havent had the luxury to farm up armor or hp items (supports or carries going for dmg).

S2 heroes are a joke, and YoT makes alot of sense. One thing I will admit though is that I DO like S2... sorta. They are very involved in the community and I love this game, the graphics, etc...

But bottom line is, when I bought this game back in Beta, I bought it because it was gonna be THE "dota2" at the time. It had all the dota heroes like chronos/devourer/warbeast. But now that they cant port over the rest and S2 keeps making these shitty gank heroes that are OP as fuk with stuns/snares/roots etc all on one hero... well the REAL dota2 just cant get here fast enough.
:)

[Ryuukun]

Have you ever actually watched a competitive game? EVER? Like in the past 7 years?
I seriously doubt it since you bring up techies that is NEVER played or banned in competitive because all you need to counter him is a Gem of Truesight and Crow courier - but I guess people who have never played anything but random public games wouldn't know. Techies is a pub-messer hero & nothing more.

Then you talked about SW a.k.a Spectre... well the huge difference between DotA and HoN is assist gold for starters. Spectre on DotA doesn't press R & gain 600g from 3 kills he wasn't even really there for.

Now let's talk about balance:

-:pand: 100% Physical Hero... that alone is unbalanced late game. Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Scaling nuke
-:dead: Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Escape mech
-:dark: Slow + Silence + Escape mech + Scaling Nuke
-:gaun: Slow + Stun + Stun/Slow + Immobilize + Escape mech
-:mora: Slow + Stun + Nullstone + Shield that hurts
-:krak: Slow + Escape Mech + Hardnuke + Superior Magic ultimate
-:bomb: Slow + Stun + Global Ultimate
-:balp: AoE Silence + Cone Slow + AoE Slow
-:myrm: AoE Slow + Stun + AoE Stun + Slow on auto
-:stri: Op

Now let's look at random heroes from DotA:

-:warb: No slow... no silence... no stun
-:moon: No slow... no silence... a micro stun
-:hamm: Stun but no slow
-:wret: Slow but no stun
-:arma: Slow but no stun
-:magm: Stun but no slow
-:behe: Stun but no slow
-:wild: No slow or stun - random immobilize
-:souls: No stun or slow or silence
-:andr: Stun but no slow

The list could go through every hero... S2 heroes have Slows, Stuns & Silences galore. DotA ports do not.
This is why S2 heroes are considered OP.

The only DotA hero that has both a Stun & a silence or Slow is :bubb:. S2 heroes almost all have at least Slow & Stun of the Slow/Stun/Silence pool.

Now if you're wanting to talk about the competitive pool of Viable heroes on DotA... it's waaaay larger than HoN's and way more diverse. Basically DotA heroes have a specialty and are valid picks only in certain situations and HoN heroes are all-rounders.

S2 fails at balance. Look at the damn Dream website - the most popular heroes are the most imbalanced ones. Look at playdota.com heroe proposals - imbalanced ones are instantly trashed especially if the concept isn't incredible.

QFT!

[ZyV]

Hi there, here comes the fool again.

I know I'm gonna enjoy this.

Ok, let's do this gently :




Heroes who's Ultimate is a stun/slow and exceeds 30 seconds do NOT COUNT. I'm talking about skills you can use on a regular basis - anything inferior to 20 seconds.
+
-:pand: 100% Physical Hero... that alone is unbalanced late game. Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Scaling nuke
-:dead: Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Escape mech
-:dark: Slow + Silence + Escape mech + Scaling Nuke
-:gaun: Slow + Stun + Stun/Slow + Immobilize + Escape mech
-:mora: Slow + Stun + Nullstone + Shield that hurts
-:krak: Slow + Escape Mech + Hardnuke + Superior Magic ultimate
-:bomb: Slow + Stun + Global Ultimate
-:balp: AoE Silence + Cone Slow + AoE Slow
-:myrm: AoE Slow + Stun + AoE Stun + Slow on auto= PRICELESS.

-:pand: Ulti Cooldown: 120.0 / 100.0 / 80.0 Seconds
-:dead: Ulti Cooldown: 85.0 / 75.0 / 65.0 Seconds
-:dark: Ulti Cooldown: 120.0 Seconds (Escape mech ?)
-:gaun: Ulti Cooldown: 80.0 / 70.0 / 60.0 Seconds
-:mora: Ulti Cooldown: 80.0 / 70.0 / 60.0 Seconds
-:krak: Ulti Cooldown: 110.0 / 100.0 / 90.0 Seconds
-:bomb: Ulti Cooldown: 140.0 / 120.0 / 100.0 Seconds
-:balp: Ulti Cooldown: 35.0 Seconds (close one, just 5 or 15 secs too much, XD)
-:myrm: Ulti Cooldown: 60.0 Seconds




About the :sand: being different from DotA? Yeah I know. But we were talking :sand: pre-nerf with the assist gold being ****ed up. That was my point.&
Then you talked about SW a.k.a Spectre... well the huge difference between DotA and HoN was assist gold for starters. Spectre on DotA doesn't press R & gain 600g from 3 kills he wasn't even really there for.

Fixed it for ya, np.




Autobanned... so techies is autobanned? No he is NOT. Na'Vi used to play him from time to time in their setups. Please know what you're talking about... Oh and about competitive: DotA + Milo please (google) [another of my accounts on HoN is MiloTiS - True I Stand]. I was admin for Mouz gaming for a long period of time. I've seen more competitive games 1st hand than most players including competitive players on HoN who had no previous competitive DotA in them.+
I seriously doubt it since you bring up techies that is NEVER played or banned in competitive because all you need to counter him is a Gem of Truesight and Crow courier - but I guess people who have never played anything but random public games wouldn't know. Techies is a pub-messer hero & nothing more.= Dude I <3 U so much!



:pand: ? MSI ran a tri-lane that was UNDEFEATED until eG countered it - at the time vs MSI he was either banned or picked.Sorry dude but I don't get your point on this specific part.


:tund:'s slow is worthless. Top players will rather kill the pig than focus the hero down - :souls: lands 1 Raze + 1 hit and the pig is dead. Pyromancer just needs to hit it with his wave + 1 hit etc. Tundra's value lies in the vision procured by the Hawk & the fact that his ultimate is the single longest sure duration stun in the game.Coeurl:
- N.A / 400 / 400 / 500 Health
- 350 Movement Speed
- On attack, slows Movement Speed of target by N.A / 20 / 20 / 35% and Attack Speed by N.A / 20 / 20 / 35
- Range: 550

SS range is 500 anyway but i guess he could W & E hands, I'm ok for Pyro... whatabout melee heroes and short range heroes?
Anyway I wouldn't call this worthless...


75 heroes vs 103 - I was talking about the OVERALL viability of the heroes in competitive play in numbers. If you take the times a hero was banned/picked in 10 games - HoN has a pool of a little over 15 and DotA's is a little over 30.Again I wouldn't call that waaaay larger than HoN's...


To the fool that made a list with Pandaren/TC/Magnus/Meepo etc.
#1 Pandaren's only stun is from the Earth Panda during his ultimate.
#2 TC's Slow is his ultimate & his stun breaks on damage.
#3 Magnus's stun is his ultimate - has no slow.
#4 Meepo has an immobilize that still allows you to cast spells.
#4 PL/Naga are easily countered by ES.
#5 of the Agility hero list you just gave, only Phantom Lancer has been played more than 5 times in over a 100 competitive games in the last year (there's a list on playdota).
#6 Invoker has a stun? He has a micro stun/disable/slow/silence/manadrain etc but he has no direct stun. Oh! He also requires skill to play.


Pandaren's isn't even slightly OP ? compared to HoN "OP" heroes like :dead:? (which you cannot directly counter according to you)
Tauren Chieftain isn't OP at all nor is he broken?
Magnataur does have an ability with a slow called skewer (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/magnataur).
Meepo isn't TOTALLY broken ?
Phantom Lancer IS imbalanced.
Naga is quite fine apart her imba ulti.
All the hero list was only there to show everyone that dota heroes are NOT valid ONLY in a certain situation, that they are generally perfectly IMbalanced & that many of them are ALL ROUNDER HEROES NOT specialized AT ALL.
IN VO KER / is just one / of the best / ex amp les / of point #7/ Do you copy?



I DID NOT BRING ULTIMATES UP FOR A REASON.For REAL? Waow, don't you remember? Just go again at the top of this post, then (re?)read what YOU wrote...


Pure 100% DotA ports (not modified like hag) are underpowered in most cases save :witc: who is overpowered in HoN due to Striders since his damn stun range is 700 and the AoE is larger than on DotA. But then again that doesn't make him a pure port does it?

Oh :pest:? His slow/stun is the same skill... having played him recently on DotA; the slow component on his stun is TRASH on HoN. Most players don't even know there's a slow. Not sure if all completly PURE but :valk: :defi: :pebb: :bubb: :phar: :magm: :poll: :behe: :temp: :glac: :doct: :glad: :pyro: UnderPowered ? Derp dude, you got me, I thought you were serious when in fact you were just trolling from the beginning. 10/10 then.


Oh... here's also a great idea... how about you go lurk around google & try to figure out who the ****ed created The Butcher (Pudge) - that would be Milo... ME. The only skill I didn't create was Flesh Heap. So I believe I can balance things pretty damn well.I think I've lost enough time with you for today, I'll pass on your invitation.


I rest my case with HoN morons as many more have already done in this thread.Dude why being so much rude when we had such an enjoyable moment together?


I know they understood what I was saying... which is what matters. See you all on DotA2 when you leave HoN. I will also pass on that invitation for other reasons.


PS: Aluna is a modified Version of Phantom Lancer (more OP) - Willing to bet my account on it. ROFLMAO



Please know what you're talking about...



Now, please, GIVE UP ALREADY!(bullet sound effect)








Edit :

So I ask, how are the s2 heroes as OP as everyone says they are and why is dota2 so godlike in everyones mind

I think OP now has enough elements to make his own opinion about this.

[Travo]

^^ Everything ZyV just said made no sense... and didnt counter one argument YoT brought up.

Glad u spent all that time quoting everything he said and still did NOT prove a damn thing except that you have no idea wtf ur talking about.

[Good_Apollo]

^^ Everything ZyV just said made no sense... and didnt counter one argument YoT brought up.

Glad u spent all that time quoting everything he said and still did NOT prove a damn thing except that you have no idea wtf ur talking about.I think you mixed up ZyV and YoT. I forgive you.

[TyrAntRexX]

^^ Everything ZyV just said made no sense... and didnt counter one argument YoT brought up.

Glad u spent all that time quoting everything he said and still did NOT prove a damn thing except that you have no idea wtf ur talking about.
ZyV did make sense and countered just about every argument made, and I don't forgive you.:mora:

[EliCar]

So Pandamonium's HARDNUKE is his ultimate eh? Maybe you don't know what a hard nuke is. His cannonball is his hardnuke - and it is OP.

Oh and if you ACTUALLY read what a wrote... you might understand that strangely the heroes from S2 I've linked don't have stun/slow/silence on their ULTIMATES. The heroes basic skills themselves have what I mentioned previously : Silence/Stun/Slow.

You're trying to prove me wrong or to prove that I don't know what I'm saying but the fact is that you don't even know what I'm trying to say or prove - you're just trying very hard.

So YoT : Showed that S2 heroes have Stun/Slow/Silence (at least 2 of 3) WITHOUT their ultimates... adds in ultimates to show just how damn OP they truly are in addition to their Stun/Slow/Silence. From this: ZyV [random internet retard] believes that I'm talking about ultimates when I never even brought them up as the base justification for my OP point - they're a supporting point that didn't even need to be brought up.

Techies being never picked & then Na'Vi ran it? They ran it 3 times in a year. He is <almost> never picked (if you really want to be a pathetic loser and fight for every inch that I'm willing to give you). Na'Vi is also the only team that ran techies in competitive this year.

Whats very hilarious is how YOU as YOUR PUBLIC #1 RETARD LORD try to define DotA heroes. Have you ever watch less yet PLAYED competitive DotA? I have good sir.
And Naga/TC/Meepo will NOT be played in competitive because they currently have absolutely no use in the meta game.

So would YOU please talk what you know about instead of trying to pretend that you can take someone's arguments and make a valid rebutal by quoting out of context.


To the other mongrels lurking : The day you actually REALLY know what you're talking about or the day ZyV knows what he's talking about hasn't come.

About the DotA heroes you linked... I've linked Bubbles & Dr.Repulsor a couple posts earlier... so I'm the retard that's blind? Grow a pair.
Then:
-Valk? Op? Really? Hardest skillshot in game.
-Gladiator? Op? Really? Hard skill shot on both Boat & Torrent (requires placement).
-Pebbles? Oh... how is Pebbles OP? You need to be in melee range to be able to combo and you can't always toss the target you've selected. Nullstone also completely ruins his combo (DW can log then punch).
-Defiler? Great escape mech. Great slow... Oh! She has an AoE silence.

I won't even go through the rest because you know well you're completely wrong. The day a damn 0.7 KDR scrub that struggles in the 1700-1800 bracket (with 0.6 wards placed per game... can't even use the support excuse can you eh?) actually knows what he's talking about hasn't come.
Otherwise you wouldn't be 0.7 KDR with 0.6 wards per game. Overall I just see a bad player that believes he has a grasp on gameplay & balance.

Sadly you have nothing except a cocky way of quoting randomly & writing with irritating colors. Now grow a pair & admit you're wrong... because any top player would agree with me - not you.

[CartEr`]

just read through 5 pages of ****
YoT is rite and gives valid points while the other kids trys hard to prove YoT wrong without trying to prove their rite
you fail at your point sir and youve made a moron out of urself trying to prove someone who is entirely rite wrong
go l2p

[Bijou]

Much angst here. Technically YoT would be considered right for the material that he brings forth, but he doesn't do it in a fashion that benefits his point. ZyV understood that the form was lacking and pulled off some nice counters; but they don't mean anything.
You cannot prove a man who is right wrong. YoT is right when he claims that S2 heroes have a combination of a least two of the following: Stun, Slow, Silence.
Very few DotA heroes have it all in the same package. I'm willing to admit they have their own very clear strengths (and weaknesses).

You're quoting most of what he's said in a more biased manner than you claim he has been doing. I'd have to agree with him on the fact that S2 heroes are pretty damn overboard in many aspects, especially the fact that they rocket launch themselves into early game and this dominate the rest of the game as long as they don't make mistakes.

I agree with YoT even though he formulated it in a way that makes it pretty hard to understand.

[Player_2]

Isn't the current rumor that Valve sent a legal notice to S2 saying they couldn't port any heroes or skills that IceFrog worked on at any point?

They can't do that. Or at least it doesn't seem right that they can do that. Those heroes ought to count as being in the public domain...

How many of those heroes were based on community suggestions for example. That's another thing to consider.

[CorpsDeReVe]

They can't do that. Or at least it doesn't seem right that they can do that. Those heroes ought to count as being in the public domain...

How many of those heroes were based on community suggestions for example. That's another thing to consider.


Most hero receive balance from Icefrog even if made by someone other. If you make kalashnikov & someone improve 10x and sell... he sell HIS. What count is not concept but is balance in real game.
No longer is anyone but his.
Icefrog sell to valve. Game over port.

Topic : yot are correct but whining like girl.

http://www.koreus.com/video/joueur-football-simulation.html

Is better than HoN.

[EliCar]

Topic : yot are correct but whining like girl.


And YOU are damn wrong. Yeah I'm right - but where the hell have I whined eh? I don't whine; I state facts.

[Lethe]

Btw the "15-20" heroes you see in Competitive Dota are only the ones that appear at the absolute highest tier.

I played in IHCS like 4 or 5 years ago and despite the "competitive" hero pool being small, heroes uncommon in the highest tier were still being played.

I still occasionally talk to some people who still play dota at a very high level, just not a make money for playing level. Like 90% of the heroes see play.

[EliCar]

Well when IHCS became IHE a lot of the not so-so good players disappeared. People at the highest skill level could no longer (to a much smaller extent at least) have fun picking a surprise hero and dominating with him in a public game.

Inhouses mostly remained public games when the people were sufficiently mixed up - with a high skill level albeit. But you didn't have the coordination or synergy of a real team in most cases, which allowed for rogue heroes to shine.

[WhyUNoCarry]

YoT:

Remove the stuns and hardnukes from DW, Gauntlet, and rewrite your OP S2 hero arguments, too many wrong statements according to your "I don't mention ulti's" policy..

[Kasma]

What interested me was whether or not this statement is true, because (assuming valve ports every dota hero the way it is now as they have stated) the balancing of dota2 will be no better (if not worse) than HoN's. They will have a SW that is just as OP as the SW we had before this patch, they will have a DS with a better version of the unbreakable ability (one of the key imbalances freshpro highlighted) and of course the stupid heroes that will be autobanned in every competitive game such as techies. So why would all the competitive players move to a game that is probably going to end up less balanced than this one.

The typical response that will follow is "no OP S2 heroes in dota2" to that I say, how do you define s2 heroes as OP, take a look at the win % of the heroes in detailed hero statistics, at the time of this post there are 29 heroes either at or above 50% win, of these 29 heroes, there are 5 s2 heroes and 24 dota remakes, now to this you will say "yeah but there are more dota heroes". Turning to the other end of the scale, there are 10 heroes at or below 45% win, of these 10 heroes, 8 are s2 heroes and 2 are dota heroes. Furthermore in competitive games there is a general 8 dota heroes to 2 s2 heroes used in each game, not to mention the commonly banned heroes such as pharaoh, SW and TB are all dota heroes.

So I ask, how are the s2 heroes as OP as everyone says they are and why is dota2 so godlike in everyones mind
SW wont be OP in dota2 because unlike HoN, in dota2 we all of the dota heroes, some of which counter him pretty hard. In other words, he'll have heroes that can easily counter him.

Your own argument falls flat when you consider the ratio of dota to non dota heroes and the fact that Player preference can easily affect statistics. Players might prefer dota heroes to S2 heroes simply because they're more familiar, which is why the win percentage is up because people are used to playing with them.

[WhyUNoCarry]

SW wont be OP in dota2 because unlike HoN, in dota2 we all of the dota heroes, some of which counter him pretty hard. In other words, he'll have heroes that can easily counter him.

Your own argument falls flat when you consider the ratio of dota to non dota heroes and the fact that Player preference can easily affect statistics. Players might prefer dota heroes to S2 heroes simply because they're more familiar, which is why the win percentage is up because people are used to playing with them.

Having specific heroes to counter another hero, IS NOT A SIGN OF GOOD BALANCE! Heroes that are countered by a strat/team effort are..

"dota is better balanced since there are specific hero counter picks!" what if the only counter pick is banned? Balanced? "oh noez!! They picked [insert hero], but [insert counter] is banned!!! WE LOST!!!!"

[wafflelegend]

have a SW that is just as OP as the SW we had before this patch

Not true, dota has that hero nerfed under different circumstances, for example the mechanics for reflect work differently and I believe it is not as effective also behemoths hearts which is extremely powerful on this hero is nerfed in dota because there is no regen active while the hero is fighting and the regen from the heart is only active when your out of combat which is an indirect nerf to him.

Why people will people want to switch? Tons of heroes people enjoy in dota2 that are not present in HoN, also people have heroes they like such as Spiritbreaker over the Rampage of HoN, etc.

[Kasma]

Having specific heroes to counter another hero, IS NOT A SIGN OF GOOD BALANCE! Heroes that are countered by a strat/team effort are..

"dota is better balanced since there are specific hero counter picks!" what if the only counter pick is banned? Balanced? "oh noez!! They picked [insert hero], but [insert counter] is banned!!! WE LOST!!!!"
Uh.. they aren't specific heroes to counter another hero, they are heroes that simply happen to be better against SW than others, and guess what, you can include those heroes in a strat and team effort.

Dota is better balanced because the heroes are better balanced.

[Synchronize]

Now let's talk about balance:

-:pand: 100% Physical Hero... that alone is unbalanced late game. Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Scaling nuke
-:dead: Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Escape mech
-:dark: Slow + Silence + Escape mech + Scaling Nuke
-:gaun: Slow + Stun + Stun/Slow + Immobilize + Escape mech
-:mora: Slow + Stun + Nullstone + Shield that hurts
-:krak: Slow + Escape Mech + Hardnuke + Superior Magic ultimate
-:bomb: Slow + Stun + Global Ultimate
-:balp: AoE Silence + Cone Slow + AoE Slow
-:myrm: AoE Slow + Stun + AoE Stun + Slow on auto
-:stri: Op

The list could go through every hero... S2 heroes have Slows, Stuns & Silences galore. DotA ports do not.
This is why S2 heroes are considered OP.


-:pand: is % 100 pysical which means easily countered by 1500 gold.
-:dead: can only punch people at pubs.
-:dark: The most nerfsmashed hero and you call her imbalanced?
-:gaun: can be easily evaded by blinks or leaps. Also have zero lategame.
-:mora: well its ok.
-:krak: seems like you dont know his old ultimate
-:bomb: power supply*
-:balp: only useful at early-mid game
-:myrm: easy to evade stuns.

abso****inglutely op they are!

-:warb: Has unitwalking and superior speed buff..?

[WhyUNoCarry]

Uh.. they aren't specific heroes to counter another hero, they are heroes that simply happen to be better against SW than others, and guess what, you can include those heroes in a strat and team effort.

Dota is better balanced because the heroes are better balanced.

I wish there was a hero who can deal shitloads of damage, is tanky, has some sort of magic immunity, and maybe a chase mech to keep SW from escaping so easily! Oh wait.. :-P

[thugwaffle]

tinker
nerubian assassin
icarus
windrunner
batrider
morphling
alchemist

urn
arcane boots
smoke of deceit

etc.

and that's just heroes/items. i wont miss a single hon hero (only ones i really enjoy compared to dota heroes are scout and maliken, and there are similar/better (in terms of design) heroes in dota.

[ZyV]

So Pandamonium's HARDNUKE is his ultimate eh? Maybe you don't know what a hard nuke is. His cannonball is his hardnuke - and it is OP.

Oh and if you ACTUALLY read what a wrote... you might understand that strangely the heroes from S2 I've linked don't have stun/slow/silence on their ULTIMATES. The heroes basic skills themselves have what I mentioned previously : Silence/Stun/Slow.

You're trying to prove me wrong or to prove that I don't know what I'm saying but the fact is that you don't even know what I'm trying to say or prove - you're just trying very hard.

So YoT : Showed that S2 heroes have Stun/Slow/Silence (at least 2 of 3) WITHOUT their ultimates... adds in ultimates to show just how damn OP they truly are in addition to their Stun/Slow/Silence. From this: ZyV [random internet retard] believes that I'm talking about ultimates when I never even brought them up as the base justification for my OP point - they're a supporting point that didn't even need to be brought up.

Techies being never picked & then Na'Vi ran it? They ran it 3 times in a year. He is <almost> never picked (if you really want to be a pathetic loser and fight for every inch that I'm willing to give you). Na'Vi is also the only team that ran techies in competitive this year.

Whats very hilarious is how YOU as YOUR PUBLIC #1 RETARD LORD try to define DotA heroes. Have you ever watch less yet PLAYED competitive DotA? I have good sir.
And Naga/TC/Meepo will NOT be played in competitive because they currently have absolutely no use in the meta game.

So would YOU please talk what you know about instead of trying to pretend that you can take someone's arguments and make a valid rebutal by quoting out of context.


To the other mongrels lurking : The day you actually REALLY know what you're talking about or the day ZyV knows what he's talking about hasn't come.

About the DotA heroes you linked... I've linked Bubbles & Dr.Repulsor a couple posts earlier... so I'm the retard that's blind? Grow a pair.
Then:
-Valk? Op? Really? Hardest skillshot in game.
-Gladiator? Op? Really? Hard skill shot on both Boat & Torrent (requires placement).
-Pebbles? Oh... how is Pebbles OP? You need to be in melee range to be able to combo and you can't always toss the target you've selected. Nullstone also completely ruins his combo (DW can log then punch).
-Defiler? Great escape mech. Great slow... Oh! She has an AoE silence.

I won't even go through the rest because you know well you're completely wrong. The day a damn 0.7 KDR scrub that struggles in the 1700-1800 bracket (with 0.6 wards placed per game... can't even use the support excuse can you eh?) actually knows what he's talking about hasn't come.
Otherwise you wouldn't be 0.7 KDR with 0.6 wards per game. Overall I just see a bad player that believes he has a grasp on gameplay & balance.

Sadly you have nothing except a cocky way of quoting randomly & writing with irritating colors. Now grow a pair & admit you're wrong... because any top player would agree with me - not you.
Hi everyone, here comes the random internet retard striking again.

So I will show that some dota heroes also have Stun/Slow/Silence combo or whatsoever WITHOUT their ultimate (despite the fact taking out ultimates when talking about balance is quite a dikcy move) :

Pandamonium : slow + slow
Tuskar : stun + slow
Bounty Hunter : (mini) stun + slow
Drow Ranger : slow + silence
Nerubian Assassin : stun + silence
Netherdrake : slow + slow
Enchantress : slow + slow
Windrunner : stun + slow
Twin Head Dragon : slow + stun (freeze)
Ancient Apparition : slow + stun

You're just about to say that thoose dota heroes don't have stun + slow + silence alltogether (WITHOUT ulti), but please tell me which HoN hero has all 3 (WITHOUT ulti if you can remember)?


Now, the fact the heroes fit or not to any metagame is only remotly related to balance and anyway that doesn't change anything about the point that some (many?) dota heroes are imbalanced if not completly broken.


Dude, it was fun but now it's becoming annoying, so will you please stop selfcontradicting?
First you claimed that "Pure 100% DotA ports (not modified like hag) are underpowered in most cases", so I asked you if :valk: :defi: :pebb: :bubb: :phar: :magm: :poll: :behe: :temp: :glac: :doct: :glad: :pyro: were UnderPowered... and now you are trying to argue about them being OverPowered or not... while they are ALL pretty good heroes.


Finally, my dear toy, I really enjoyed playing with you but it is pathetic how you desesperatly (try to) fight back (you even had again to call upon in-game players stats) on a few points while you are completly dodging everything else where you were totally been proved wrong...
I then have to say it again :


Please know what you're talking about...


Regards.

[Gilgame]

i havent seen anything new about dota 2 sinces months ago.

but since then, hon has become a much bigger game, more heroes, skins, voicepacks.

i like alot of the heroes hon have developed and implemented themselves, and although i liked alot of the dota heroes, alot of them were imbalanced and pretty dumb. even though hon isnt perfectly balanced, i enjoy all the heroes they have implemented and the tweaks they have made to some old Dota Heroes (legionaire>axe for instance)

i will most certainly try dota 2, i dont know if ill be able to enjoy it without all of the heroes that hon has now.

[EliCar]

YoT:

Remove the stuns and hardnukes from DW, Gauntlet, and rewrite your OP S2 hero arguments, too many wrong statements according to your "I don't mention ulti's" policy..

Infernal instability? And more than hardnukes my point was Stuns, Slows & Silences. Read correctly please. The ultimates were only there to add to the OPness feeling.

ZyV...

We're talking slow/stun/silence. You're linking heroes with Slow/Slow such as Pandaren?
And 3 posts earlier you're saying Pandaren has a stun? C'mon... and you say I'm full a ****? Get a grip son.

I'm your toy? No - you're some random internet joke - one of those kids that thinks he's smart but proves he's stupid each time he writes.

Are we talking about the same thing? I don't think. So far more people have agreed with me then with you... that alone says a lot.

I suggest you stop humiliating yourself and try to not get off topic to justify your claims to being right. Sadly as said by whoever... a wrong man can't be right & vice-versa. You're wrong.

[EliCar]

Oh and yes... if we're talking about underpowered:

Few DotA heroes can match off to S2 heroes without a large amount of farm. In that sense they're underpowered.

Hey Lord.Contradictionmuch (yeah that's you) you've contradicted yourself 7 times in two posts and have deviated from the main point that I raised trying to prove you're right... but heeeey - you're wrong.

Now you're asking me to find a hero with all 3 without ultimate? That doesn't quite work that way. My point was that most s2 heroes have a combination of at least two - few DotA heros do.

No hero in the entire game be it HoN or DotA has all 3 - EXCEPT ENGINEER! And he's an s2 hero.


Now read CORRECTLY - and what I wrote. Not what you WANT to read. You're a fool son.

[Berethorn]

So Pandamonium's HARDNUKE is his ultimate eh? Maybe you don't know what a hard nuke is. His cannonball is his hardnuke - and it is OP.

Oh and if you ACTUALLY read what a wrote... you might understand that strangely the heroes from S2 I've linked don't have stun/slow/silence on their ULTIMATES. The heroes basic skills themselves have what I mentioned previously : Silence/Stun/Slow.

You're trying to prove me wrong or to prove that I don't know what I'm saying but the fact is that you don't even know what I'm trying to say or prove - you're just trying very hard.

So YoT : Showed that S2 heroes have Stun/Slow/Silence (at least 2 of 3) WITHOUT their ultimates... adds in ultimates to show just how damn OP they truly are in addition to their Stun/Slow/Silence. From this: ZyV [random internet retard] believes that I'm talking about ultimates when I never even brought them up as the base justification for my OP point - they're a supporting point that didn't even need to be brought up.

Techies being never picked & then Na'Vi ran it? They ran it 3 times in a year. He is <almost> never picked (if you really want to be a pathetic loser and fight for every inch that I'm willing to give you). Na'Vi is also the only team that ran techies in competitive this year.

Whats very hilarious is how YOU as YOUR PUBLIC #1 RETARD LORD try to define DotA heroes. Have you ever watch less yet PLAYED competitive DotA? I have good sir.
And Naga/TC/Meepo will NOT be played in competitive because they currently have absolutely no use in the meta game.

So would YOU please talk what you know about instead of trying to pretend that you can take someone's arguments and make a valid rebutal by quoting out of context.


To the other mongrels lurking : The day you actually REALLY know what you're talking about or the day ZyV knows what he's talking about hasn't come.

About the DotA heroes you linked... I've linked Bubbles & Dr.Repulsor a couple posts earlier... so I'm the retard that's blind? Grow a pair.
Then:
-Valk? Op? Really? Hardest skillshot in game.
-Gladiator? Op? Really? Hard skill shot on both Boat & Torrent (requires placement).
-Pebbles? Oh... how is Pebbles OP? You need to be in melee range to be able to combo and you can't always toss the target you've selected. Nullstone also completely ruins his combo (DW can log then punch).
-Defiler? Great escape mech. Great slow... Oh! She has an AoE silence.

I won't even go through the rest because you know well you're completely wrong. The day a damn 0.7 KDR scrub that struggles in the 1700-1800 bracket (with 0.6 wards placed per game... can't even use the support excuse can you eh?) actually knows what he's talking about hasn't come.
Otherwise you wouldn't be 0.7 KDR with 0.6 wards per game. Overall I just see a bad player that believes he has a grasp on gameplay & balance.

Sadly you have nothing except a cocky way of quoting randomly & writing with irritating colors. Now grow a pair & admit you're wrong... because any top player would agree with me - not you.


Panda is OP guiz cannon ball nerf!!

Stoped reading there, you have absolutly no clue about this game, hence you should stop posting ****.

You speak of words like **** from ass.

[EliCar]

Panda is OP guiz cannon ball nerf!!

Stoped reading there, you have absolutly no clue about this game, hence you should stop posting ****.

You speak of words like **** from ass.

Me? That must be why I have twice your KDR and average GPM and 20% more winrate at the same PSR as you?

Damn if I'm clueless - what are you?

[ZyV]

Hi again everyone.


Infernal instability? And more than hardnukes my point was Stuns, Slows & Silences. Read correctly please. The ultimates were only there to add to the OPness feeling.

ZyV...

We're talking slow/stun/silence. You're linking heroes with Slow/Slow such as Pandaren?
And 3 posts earlier you're saying Pandaren has a stun? C'mon... and you say I'm full a ****? Get a grip son.

I'm your toy? No - you're some random internet joke - one of those kids that thinks he's smart but proves he's stupid each time he writes.

Are we talking about the same thing? I don't think. So far more people have agreed with me then with you... that alone says a lot.

I suggest you stop humiliating yourself and try to not get off topic to justify your claims to being right. Sadly as said by whoever... a wrong man can't be right & vice-versa. You're wrong.

You just fall into my bait.
When I said Pandaren has a stun (from his ulti), I was replying to one of your posts where you included ulties (only for HoN heroes btw, that was a really unbiased way to try to prove your point) :
-:pand: 100% Physical Hero... that alone is unbalanced late game. Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Scaling nuke
-:dead: Stun + Slow + Hardnuke + Escape mech
-:dark: Slow + Silence + Escape mech + Scaling Nuke
-:gaun: Slow + Stun + Stun/Slow + Immobilize + Escape mech
-:mora: Slow + Stun + Nullstone + Shield that hurts
-:krak: Slow + Escape Mech + Hardnuke + Superior Magic ultimate
-:bomb: Slow + Stun + Global Ultimate
-:balp: AoE Silence + Cone Slow + AoE Slow
-:myrm: AoE Slow + Stun + AoE Stun + Slow on auto
-:stri: Op

Now let's look at random heroes from DotA:

-:warb: No slow... no silence... no stun
-:moon: No slow... no silence... a micro stun
-:hamm: Stun but no slow
-:wret: Slow but no stun
-:arma: Slow but no stun
-:magm: Stun but no slow
-:behe: Stun but no slow
-:wild: No slow or stun - random immobilize
-:souls: No stun or slow or silence
-:andr: Stun but no slow

The list could go through every hero... S2 heroes have Slows, Stuns & Silences galore. DotA ports do not.
This is why S2 heroes are considered OP.

The only DotA hero that has both a Stun & a silence or Slow is :bubb:. S2 heroes almost all have at least Slow & Stun of the Slow/Stun/Silence pool.Listing slow+slow dota heroes (and whatabout stun+silence, slow+stun, silence+stun that you dodged again?) just shows that dota heroes also have Slows, Stuns & Silences galore, G A L O R E.


Oh and yes... if we're talking about underpowered:

Few DotA heroes can match off to S2 heroes without a large amount of farm. In that sense they're underpowered.

Hey Lord.Contradictionmuch (yeah that's you) you've contradicted yourself 7 times in two posts and have deviated from the main point that I raised trying to prove you're right... but heeeey - you're wrong.

Now you're asking me to find a hero with all 3 without ultimate? That doesn't quite work that way. My point was that most s2 heroes have a combination of at least two - few DotA heros do.

No hero in the entire game be it HoN or DotA has all 3 - EXCEPT ENGINEER! And he's an s2 hero.


Now read CORRECTLY - and what I wrote. Not what you WANT to read. You're a fool son."Few DotA heroes can match off to S2 heroes without a large amount of farm" c'mon gimme a break, where did you pull that statement from ? Was it in the same place where you found that :dead: mid can't be countered directly?
You are contradicting yourself all the time and I showed it (easyly) with quotes and so on, can you also show everyone where I did selfcontradict?
Anyway you listed 8 HoN heroes with a combination of at least two and I listed 7 dota heroes with a combination of at least two (w/o the slow+slow, 10 including them)... so how does that match with "few DotA heros do"?
And now you bring in AGAIN an ultimate to show your point? I thought you don't "BRING ULTIMATES UP FOR A REASON". Oh sry I forgot how much you like "to add to the OPness feeling"...




It REALLY looks like you are trying to prove that HoN is less balanced than dota/dota2 but the base figures which you argue on don't make much sense if any.
You don't see anything wrong in this confuse reasonning of yours, do you?
Let me enlighten you, if you only compare inside HoN ports and originals (in a biased way), the best you might achieve is proving there are some imbalances in HoN (waow, smart move, did anyone say HoN was perfect?).
But I know why you think this is enough since everyone knows that dota(2) has always been / is / will be forever perfectly balanced...





Please know what you're talking about...


Regards.








Post Scriptum :

Please YoT stop with your insults, so far : stupid, half-assed sucker, ass-wipes, morons, random internet retard, pathetic loser, PUBLIC #1 RETARD LORD, mongrels...
Seems like someone hurt your little feelings.

[WILDDADDY]

wtb goblin techies port, or its off to dota2 where people care about goblins
/thread

[AquaGizer]

Techies are gay

/thread

[Pichu]

Indeed.

[LongDonSilva]

cool story bro.

don't let the door slam your ass on the way out.

[tr3]

techies was so much fun, would love to play it again

btw, to noobs:

it wasn't a stupid hero, it was a GREAT hero, don't rage about it just because you didn't buy wards for him

[wikkedwhite]

Troll, 1500 of these threads were deleted

[WILDDADDY]

Troll, 1500 of these threads were deleted

apparently you are upset

[IsmaelVera]

He wasn't exactly top pick.

And S2 said nuuu

So sit in front of ur computer all day to wait for ur dota2 free key... Oh wait...

[HonchoBob]

Techies is/was/will always be joke hero. 3 skills are countered by either an eye or an invis ward, one kills him. They are the jesters of DotA.

[Bill_Braskey]

My only memories of techies was turtling a 2v5 game with my friend as Dragon Knight and me as Techies. After 3 people DC'd, I said to my friend, "Were making them win, weren't not giving it to them". After 60 minutes of defending against herp derps, they finally tri-pushed and broke the flood gates, so to speak.

Moral of this story? Techies is ****ing annoying. Even if you get kills, it's all about trolololoing. It's not even about winning. You remain underleveled in most games planting mines in hopes that the opponent will make a wrong move, and that's just stupid. He should have been taken out of Dota and hopefully never ported to HoN.

[CannibalOx]

Try Bombardier. He's a goblin, got bombs, got a detonator, more diverse abilities and as far as I know he's more useful than techies ever were.

[Majikza]

techies are lame ...ty S2 for ignoring all the lame techies fanboys

[Bloodsplat]

Techies and CM i think not

[coolstorybro]

cool story bro.

don't let the door slam your ass on the way out.
O hai. O wait. I'm not welcome here

[miley__cyrus]

Port him


people who want to play him play sd ap or ar


people who dont like like him play -bd -bp and ban him


end of story

[Beardhat]

I love how people say his R was countered by wards, when you can drop them in the middle of a team fight for 750 damage every 10 seconds.

Anyways, just putting this out here, S2's aim for HoN was to create a more wild, gank heavy, team fighting fun fest, where pushers, illusion and map controllers really didn't have a place, its why you don't see heroes like Pit Lord, Phantom Lancer and Techies, their gameplay style wasn't meant for ganking and direct team fighting, pit lord did have nymph's ulti mind you but ultimately his other two abilities were meant for pushing lanes and towers down quickly.

As well techies role was to keep control of the map, using his Q mines to harass people who attempt to gank, and grant psudo sight so you can see where people are going if placed correctly, his W was the strongest stun in the game, even if it had a delay, 6 second AoE stun was pretty powerful and can demolish an enemy team in a team fight if positioned correctly, and his R, many "noobs" or people who didn't understand the power of his R mines just stacked them, waiting for a ward to hard counter them, no, with your R you dropped it on your enemy for 300-450-600-750(Lv.3+staff) every 10 seconds, within 20 seconds thats more damage then Lina's or Lion's 60+ sec cooldown ultimates.

Honestly, he was underestimated, in the hands of a good player in a well rounded team techies could control the game, and that was his role, control, not gank, not support, not carry which defines every HoN hero, but a different role that HoN has decided to drop for more action oriented gameplay.

I can't wait to see him back in DotA2, as both LoL and HoN have failed to replicate him in any spiritual sense, and he'll be the first hero I am going to remaster when/if he comes out.

[_Bix_]

Port him


people who want to play him play sd ap or ar


people who dont like like him play -bd -bp and ban him


end of story

Waste ban on a **** hero?

Nope.

[Megas_]

Then make him a permanent Dev hero

[Brin]

He made Dota games a lot of fun. I'd welcome a Techies port.

[Beardhat]

I got an idea, lets all do a 5v5 all techies DotA game, for good times sake.

[DarkWarrior]

Don't run, we are your friends!

[Allnighte]

dota 2 may not have techies either.

what will you do then?

[THE_LAGKAGE]

they can't add more Dota heros because of Dota 2.

[nuotti]

dota 2 may not have techies either.

what will you do then?

Play DotA forever?

[spamilator]

Is techies even a hero? More like a joke concept..

[pr4wn3r]

techies was the most fun hero, but indeed, if the enemy team just had a little tiny bit of brain they would counter him easily....
i would love to see him in HoN, but then they have to make a no-techies-mode =P

[redeye998]

Relax, the idea is that they are not doing any other ports after dota released 6.68.
I read somewhere that thats illegal somehow and s2 is far away from even THINK who to port...

[Beardhat]

techies was the most fun hero, but indeed, if the enemy team just had a little tiny bit of brain they would counter him easily....
i would love to see him in HoN, but then they have to make a no-techies-mode =P
Not as easy to counter as people would believe.

There were tons of juke spots where you could hide mines to avoid true sight and even kill the eye carrier.

Also if the enemy team was covering the entire map with true sight wards you're doing your job right.

And not many people know this but with the upgrade staff his R mine can be used as a long range 450-750 damage nuke every 10 seconds.

I think what really gets people off on hating techies was suicide being a garenteed deny with extremely high damage potential.

Techies had alot of strengths people forget about, what people remember is noobs playing techies stacking mines.

If you played with a good techies he was the ultimate map wide support hero.

Also many people forget about Rikimaru aka Night Hound having mines early in DotA, you think squishy techies was bad? Riki was worse.

[GregerMoek]

As much as I love the hero I don't think they will port him, and if they do he'll be in dev mode permanently.

I dunno if you're able to create heroes in the map editor, but if you are you could create a map with this hero and problem would be solved. If not, too bad :P
I'm not even sure they will port him to DotA2

[sirshane]

Techies will make people rage hard so they wont port him

[WhrMaBtchz]

Title...community. And i am saying it with joy because i know it is true. Its not about the mogul S2 money makin pimp daddys that are makin all those cool...useless avatars like the awesome...useless rampage that shoots rainbows from his ass. Its not about the game that will be Dota2, wich frankly i dont give a chippers ass if its gonna suck or not couse you cant tell, atleast not now.
Its about the small minded ppl that are part of this community and i truely believe that This is the only thing Dota2 will fix...why? Well, all the retards and extremely dangerous drug addicts will hopefuly start playing Dota2...this means a very big change(hopefuly into good) will happen to this community, filtering it of all the nasty shh that is now out there.

Therefore the sentence "Dota2 will fix this!!!" has a somewhat valid claim.:glad:

[MrCosgrove]

so you will go over to dota2 aswell?

[emKill]

You be one big drug addict as well, so you be goin?

[DoctorSpoon]

This kid says says druggys will go over to DoTA 2, and he has a joint in his sig

And his sig says "We be trollin"

I don't know what to believe, I only believe that the OP is a hypocrtitical dumbass who has no idea what he is saying because he probably just drank a whole bottom of cough syrup to get high just to fit in with a group of his new middle school "friends"

I regress.

[ReDM3n]

I will do to dota 2 if it have blacksmith

[DoctorSpoon]

I will do to dota 2 if it have blacksmith

*Cough* Ogre Magi *Cough* *Cough* Better learn DoTA terms now or kids will lawl and banlist you for being a "HoN Scrub" *Cough*

*Cough* anyone got a cough drop? *Cough*

[Celsian]

*Cough* Ogre Magi *Cough* *Cough* Better learn DoTA terms now or kids will lawl and banlist you for being a "HoN Scrub" *Cough*

*Cough* anyone got a cough drop? *Cough*

Considering 90% of the DoTA 2 community will consist of LoL-tards, I highly doubt this. Besides, there are going to be a TON of new heroes in DoTA 2, ie Pyro... Any scrubs looking to be "the cool DoTA vet" will be squashed out in the first 72 hours.

Get your timer ready.

DOTA TARDS:
http://www.mymym.com/gfx/gfx/best-ganker.png

Puppey dude, he named himself Puppey...

[Granman]

DotA 2 community will be better, but not for the reasons you list.

[Silhouette]

Considering 90% of the DoTA 2 community will consist of LoL-tards, I highly doubt this. Besides, there are going to be a TON of new heroes in DoTA 2, ie Pyro... Any scrubs looking to be "the cool DoTA vet" will be squashed out in the first 72 hours.

Get your timer ready.


Hardly...

It wont be F2P.

[DoctorSpoon]

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Gabe_Newell.jpg

Has this face ever let us down?

[Celsian]

Hardly...

It wont be F2P.

It also won't have unicorns, pimps and duke nukem screaming at you. HoN-ers aren't going anywhere.

[WhrMaBtchz]

READ IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN!

so you will go over to dota2 aswell?


You be one big drug addict as well, so you be goin?


This kid says says druggys will go over to DoTA 2, and he has a joint in his sig

And his sig says "We be trollin"

I don't know what to believe, I only believe that the OP is a hypocrtitical dumbass who has no idea what he is saying because he probably just drank a whole bottom of cough syrup to get high just to fit in with a group of his new middle school "friends"

I regress.

I actualy get to have the perfect example to my statement right here in my own thread...as you can see i quoted 3 replies posted by members that seem to hate ppl for reasons that may vary(abused when little; had no toys thruout life; have under 5cm long penises...could be any) out of a total of...damn 3 replies total.

sure hoping VALVE is moving like lightning couse we could seriously use a filter around here...or atlest an IQ-test mod atleast(suggestion for mod: can't connect if IQ is lower than 80...no make that 70 couse we dont want to end up with a mass of 2-3 digits.)
----------------------------------------------------------
FOR THE HATERS!!!
and for a quicky response i dont take drugs that can hurt my judgement...otherwise i would end up like you guys...as for weed i find it hard to call it a drug...its legal in countries...tolerated in other countries...kills none tho alcohool kill ppl like a motherfoker and it actualy grows in dirt and not a chemestry lab but still nice try with the trolling thingy or whatever you was trying...
----------------------------------------------------------
READ HERE...ITS ON TOPIC!!!
I would realy want to see some niceness up in this joint couse all i can see are Dota2 players...

[lolbreeze]

Remember Half Life: Episode Three?

[Hax]

It also won't have unicorns, pimps and duke nukem screaming at you. HoN-ers aren't going anywhere.

Actually jon st john did a voice gig for dota 2.

[DoctorSpoon]

Remember Half Life: Episode Three?

Yeah, it isnt being rushed out, It'd be retarded if Half-Life episodes were shipped every fall..SORT OF LIKE CALL OF PIECE OF **** OF PIECE OF CRAP OF PIECE OF POOP DUTY

[WhrMaBtchz]

wow srry for the late post but aparently too many ppl are replying and i keep falling behind lol...

as for ontopic you may never know how VALVE is going to design their game...i am thinking that they'll add a money makin feature to their Dota2 themselfes most like the ingame shop we have in hon now...thou i dought that john saint john will do an announcer again.

[dutchmasterz]

what is this i dont even

[Cyann]

Well I can count on Valve acting proffesional, unlike S2 = Reason why I'm switching.

Sorry to burst a bubble in your theory.

[Renault]

So I can annoy people with hon names.

Hag buy sheep and gank nh! :scou:

[dieter]

Can't wait for the DotA 2 Forum.

Everyday 2 threads. "Why HoN will beat this shitty game!11!"

[alexandre]

can't wait for diablo 3

[Pamphlet]

So I can annoy people with hon names.

Hag buy sheep and gank nh! :scou:

Oh. My. God.

THIS.

[Dothi]

can't wait for diablo 3
Oh u :madm:

Can't wait for Project Titan.

[TheRedRager]

Cant wait for demigod bro.

[Tehgermsboy]

cant wait for Skyrim

[PUCKtastic]

Cant wait for demigod bro.

That game was HORRIBLE

[Norroar]

No it wasn't.

It was good, just too rushed (thus incredibly unpolished, and bugged).

If you actually did play the game, you'd probably know that it isn't 'HORRIBLE'.

[pixels]

What is your opinion on it, Norroar ?

[Norroar]

wat u mean?

[InbredMule]

I actually played and enjoyed demigod too. Sedna was the lolz

[TWENTYTWO`S]

Can't wait for Impossible Creatures 2

[Sauron`]

cant wait for Skyrim

this^

[Mikina]

I cant wait for...
SWTOR (http://swtor.com/) <--- THIS! I'm waiting for about 3 years now QQ
Portal 2 (got it preordered, yay)
Skyrim
LOTR:War in the North
From Dust (This one looks interresting, not sure if its out yet lol)

[Naib]

No it wasn't.

It was good, just too rushed (thus incredibly unpolished, and bugged).

If you actually did play the game, you'd probably know that it isn't 'HORRIBLE'. yup I did enjoy the game alot. Was a real shame after they abandoned it

[oOo]

Can`T wait for HoN3

[Revenant]

Can't wait for DoHoNtALoL 2.0

[Sheriff]

Cant wait for Defense of the heroes of legends

one hell of a game

[Vexium]

can't wait for halo 4

[Revenant]

Can't wait for Duty Calls 2

[Spiky]

Can't wait for League of Defence Heroes, this will ROCK!

[TDA101]

This is what it's willing to pay for it.
http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/3479/freedota2.jpg

Some of the posts in that thread are pretty epic facepalm as well.

[Lethe]

I don't get it. Dota 2 might have a little trouble if people are as dumb as bricks?

They'll learn.

[Hat_Truck]

I would pay $50 for DotA 2 if it is well polished on release and has good leaver protection.

For the record, "replacing" leavers with other players is not good leaver protection. First of all, who the hell wants to join a game mid-battle with a hero they didn't pick and a team that is probably losing, and second of all it's not teaching leavers any lessons. It's a cool idea but it shouldn't absolve leavers from punishment.

If they don't have proper leaver protection I'm not playing it, period.

[Tyrando]

$50 sounds better than $10.99 a month i assure you

[TDA101]

Your in trouble when up to 40% of your possible customer base is too frigid to buy your product out of entitlement.

The same 40% believes that IceFrog also created DotA, think Wc3 is free, Blizzard doesn't exist and Garena is a godsend :P.

[Revenant]

I'm going to laugh really hard if DotA turns out to be $60, then make you farm for hats.

[Octavia]

Your in trouble when up to 40% of your possible customer base is too frigid to buy your product out of entitlement.

The same 40% believes that IceFrog also created DotA, think Wc3 is free, Blizzard doesn't exist and Garena is a godsend :P.
40% also think it will be $50. Who cares about the people who want it to be free? It's not worth designing your business model around people who don't have any money.

[LiChE]

people will buy the game whatever the price is

cuz its dota 2!!

[Lucian01]

If it's going to have a similar business model to either tf2 or LoL then I'm going to be really annoyed.

I'll probably still get it though!

[InbredMule]

Sadly D3 will be out, and I wont be buying another moba to play in my free time.

[Tyrando]

ahh d3 sat there in the back of our minds waitin for a release date so we can all go nuts, ofc knowin full well it'll be delayed by another 3 month

[Cptnawesome]

Don't mind paying 100 USD for Dota2, going rate for games in Norway anyways.

[Neefykins]

What forum is this?

[Bobble]

D3, slowly turning into Duke Nukem Forever.

[tanta]

except duke nukem forever seems badass and D3 has already risen my doubts. The content released so far(and theres quite a bit of that) is pretty far from D2.

[pixels]

This poll doesn't really mean anything.

You present people with a choice to get the same game for free or to pay for it ?

[Vexium]

This poll doesn't really mean anything.

You present people with a choice to get the same game for free or to pay for it ?

yar this

[Loli]

If its what I expect it to be, I'd want it to be 40-50.
I suppose I'd understand 60 with how the market is now adays though.

[Atrim3ntus]

Free-$20

[The_Nix]

they'll do just fine if they release it for $30 since most of the people who say free will buy it anyways and all us idiots bought this terrid game for $30.

[Testingrani]

What forum is this?

Original thread:
http://www.playdota.com/forums/322173/how-much-you-willing-pay-dota-2-a/

[TheVeronicas]

My opinion on the "DOTA2 is going to kill HON" issue

People say HON will die when DOTA2 comes out. In other words, many current HON players, and maybe potential future HON players, will transfer over to DOTA2.

But they are missing one thing. It doesn't matter if you transfer to DOTA2 if you play HON now, you already paid the $30 to S2 and they already earned the money. There isn't a monthly fee, so there isn't any more profit to S2 after your initial purchase of the game.

Let's assume that there are not many new players or new accounts being made now as there was back in spring 2010, as suggested by the recent "Goblin Store" (GS for short) release. People who say "HON is going down" because of this GS release is wrong since sales numbers cannot go down but only remain stationary. HON players may not necessarily be declining, but simply not increasing. We will ignore profits earned from Goblin Coins in that it is inconsistent with every player, with some spending a lot and some not spending at all.

The lowest PSR player is ranked 249,222, suggesting that there are a current total of 249,222 players.

It is not even important if the current players quit, as long as there are new players coming in and paying the $30, S2 is profiting.

The only profit loss is the from the loss of potential future customers that are lost due to the release of DOTA2, not from the transfer of current players of HON to DOTA2.

Opinions? Serious ones please.

[oceanpollen]

There isn't a monthly fee, so there isn't any more profit to S2 after your initial purchase of the game.

The shop.

[Revenant]

If S2 doesn't profit, then the terrorists win and the world implodes after shitting itself.

[TheBigBig]

I for one will be glad when I no longer have to hear the "DOTA 2 will b bettr thn hoN" whining.

More on topic: if dota 2 is in fact a good game, then new players coming in to HoN might slow down because all their friends will be talking about dota 2. Given the choice, most people will probably think "I'd rather play this new game with all my friends" and go that route

Personally though, I'm most likely gonna stick with HoN

[Lasagna]

My opinion on the "DOTA2 is going to kill HON" issue

People say HON will die when DOTA2 comes out. In other words, many current HON players, and maybe potential future HON players, will transfer over to DOTA2.

But they are missing one thing. It doesn't matter if you transfer to DOTA2 if you play HON now, you already paid the $30 to S2 and they already earned the money. There isn't a monthly fee, so there isn't any more profit to S2 after your initial purchase of the game.

Let's assume that there are not many new players or new accounts being made now as there was back in spring 2010, as suggested by the recent "Goblin Store" (GS for short) release. People who say "HON is going down" because of this GS release is wrong since sales numbers cannot go down but only remain stationary. HON players may not necessarily be declining, but simply not increasing. We will ignore profits earned from Goblin Coins in that it is inconsistent with every player, with some spending a lot and some not spending at all.

The lowest PSR player is ranked 249,222, suggesting that there are a current total of 249,222 players.

It is not even important if the current players quit, as long as there are new players coming in and paying the $30, S2 is profiting.

The only profit loss is the from the loss of potential future customers that are lost due to the release of DOTA2, not from the transfer of current players of HON to DOTA2.

Opinions? Serious ones please.
Current players quit, means no sales of goblin coins. New players that would have bought HoN will buy Dota 2 instead (for obvious reasons). No more income means most servers need to be shutdown, some staff will be fired and that is how it's going to kill HoN

[Dracula]

The term 'going to kill hon' refers to a massive drop in the playerbase and competitive/sponsor scene.
I think DOTA 2 is going to 'kill' hon for sure, but not kill S2. Simply because HoN is DOTA2 and DOTA2 is DOTA3.
Unless Valve mess it up, I can't see many people staying here because of a deadwood, puppet or effin Merrick.
Eventually not many players for hon will justify shutting down servers and the game.

[dotatwo]

you forgot that people that dont have more than 10 games in the system aren't counted in the rankings

[Octavia]

There's about 380k registered accounts and it increases by about 2k per week.

[IsmaelVera]

If S2 doesn't profit, then the terrorists win and the world implodes after shitting itself.

Another fail post by revenant.

Agreed OP, but after seeing how late dota 2 is, they will continue to suckle S2's testicles.
:tort:

[Testingrani]

Players will select the superior game in the Dota genre.

If Dota 2 does meet the high expectations, average concurrent HoN player numbers would see a sharp drop and limit the number of new players coming in.

S2 knows that they cannot solely depend new accounts for their income that is why the gold coins system was added.

[Mouse]

But...But...But....

CHU is going to DotA 2!!!

You fanboys not gonna follow CHU!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?

[Decency]

My opinion on the "DOTA2 is going to kill HON" issue

People say HON will die when DOTA2 comes out. In other words, many current HON players, and maybe potential future HON players, will transfer over to DOTA2.

But they are missing one thing. It doesn't matter if you transfer to DOTA2 if you play HON now, you already paid the $30 to S2 and they already earned the money. There isn't a monthly fee, so there isn't any more profit to S2 after your initial purchase of the game.

Let's assume that there are not many new players or new accounts being made now as there was back in spring 2010, as suggested by the recent "Goblin Store" (GS for short) release. People who say "HON is going down" because of this GS release is wrong since sales numbers cannot go down but only remain stationary. HON players may not necessarily be declining, but simply not increasing. We will ignore profits earned from Goblin Coins in that it is inconsistent with every player, with some spending a lot and some not spending at all.

The lowest PSR player is ranked 249,222, suggesting that there are a current total of 249,222 players.

It is not even important if the current players quit, as long as there are new players coming in and paying the $30, S2 is profiting.

The only profit loss is the from the loss of potential future customers that are lost due to the release of DOTA2, not from the transfer of current players of HON to DOTA2.

Opinions? Serious ones please.

Yes, and without a sizable player base, more players will definitely be inclined to buy the game.

Think before you make stupid rants using multiple obnoxious colors.

[LilDiddly]

I'm going to buy DotA 2 and leave if it pwns HoN (which it will).

[EyesHeartYew]

Im pretty sure Dota2 wont kill HoN, who knows what kind of bugs or issues Dota 2 is going to bringt with itself, by that time HoN will be to some degree balanced or have other features which Dota2 wont have.

just cut the discussion we cant anticipate the future nor we can forsee what happens to S2.

[haunt]

everyone will try it thats just normal, if its better then people will play it over hon. nothing more then that

[Omgopolis]

I think a lot of people will be disappointed by DoTA 2. My general impression based on what I've heard is that DoTA 2 = HoN - Fun S2 Heroes + Old Dota heroes some people like. It reminds me of people that get super pumped up about Madden 2013 because the roster is slightly different than Madden 2012. Except the new game is being developed from scratch and there's no evidence it will be good. I don't know how many people will quit HoN to play DoTA 2 exclusively, but I won't miss forum posts with people saying "OMG HoN is dead, can't wait for DoTA 2, herpderp."

I can't imagine HoN dying, simply because people still play lots of older games after a new one comes out. Will people stop playing CoD: Black Ops because Black Ops 2 comes out? Hell, people still play CoD: World at War. On a more related note, people still play the old Dota, even though newer games like LoL and HoN are around. I don't even think DoTA 2 will manage to kill DoTA, and that game is like a decrepit old man compared to DoTA 2 and HoN, so it should be easy for it to die.

[Suzakasa]

All online games eventually die. (Except maybe WoW.....) The hon servers will go down someday, as will the dota 2 servers etc etc. But just because you play Dota2 does not mean you have to stop playing hon : /, I mean you must realize you can play more than one game at a time right?

[Mazinkaiser]

Many HoN players cry their eyes out abot 6800 coins.

Magically, they will be ok with paying 49.99 for DOTA 2


lol... :zeph: