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View Full Version : Earners Vs. Buyers -- The Great Debate



kilamanila
07-15-2011, 01:14 PM
All of this discussion about account icons (namely the shields), and discussion of what the shields represent has reminded me of features of Warcraft 3.

The main issues being thrown around are...

1. How do we decide the order in which icons are displayed in the chat rooms? Cost vs. Rarity vs. Color Value (diamond being more precious than purple therefore having a higher value)

2. How do we decide the cost of shields?



With most shop related issues, S2 once again faces the challenge of appeasing two types of customers, the ones who deserve the most benefits as a user because they have earned it, and the ones who deserve the most benefits because they have paid for it. All the while, S2 must figure out how to still make money.


Some important things to consider while reading this post:

1. Players who spend money past the initial 30$ fee should be rewarded for choosing to support S2, as they keep the company alive.

2. Players who are dedicated to the game, play extensively, and are proud of what they earn in the game. For many, such as myself, it gives extra meaning and incentive in the game if i can earn something that i can be proud of and show off. These players also bring revenue to the game, as it is these players who use word of mouth to bring others to the game, thus increasing S2 revenue via word of mouth increase of player-base.



The only reason that this issue hasn't broken HoN is because nothing that can be purchased or earned gives players an advantage over other players. However, it is still an important issue to discuss, as it directly affects the livelyhood of S2, and the general happiness of the community.


Players who spend real life money on icons have every right to be mad when other players have the same things, but didn't pay a cent.

Players who earned their icons have every right to be mad when other players wear the same icons even though they didn't put the time in to earn it but instead just purchased it with real money.


Both sides have valid points. This is important.



I used to play Warcraft 3 like it was my job. I loved the game. What drove me to play it for hours on end every day for several years was pride. When I logged in, in the chat room, players could see my account level and account icon, and they could tell from those two things just how impressive my achievements in the game were. The recognition i recieved for my efforts and accomplishements while playing the game, from other players in the game, made the game enjoyable for me. I loved to win, and I loved that other players could tell I was good at it.

Why players enjoy games:

1. Social Aspect
-enjoy playing with friends
-enjoy trash talking opponents
-enjoy trolling allies

2. Competition Aspect
-enjoy beating other players
-enjoy the challenge and variety of PvP
-enjoy the challenge of overcoming set perameters of PvE (less common in HoN)

3. Reward Aspect
-enjoy the reward of "the grind", common models include quest grinds, loot rewards (Professor Plums), and in hon, "ricing/farming" those epic items
-enjoy earning coins, another form of "grind", for the sake of buying things to show off

4. Recognition
-enjoy being recognized for ones accomplishments, a/i being good at a game, having put time into a game, often refered to as "flexing your E-Peen"


Let me tell you, I'm all about my E-Peen. I'm egocentric in the video game world. When I play a game, I want to be good at it, and I want others to know that I'm better than them. Hell, I don't mind adding in recognition for how much time I've spent honing my skill. (lol, HoNing my skill).

In Warcraft III you had a limited amount of account options available to you, account icon availability was based off how many matches you had won with a specific race (including random). All accounts started off with an Orc peon for an icon, and you worked your way up the ladder. If I remember right the first icon was unlocked at 25 wins, the next 100, 250, 500, then 1000. Those are estimates, and I'm at work so I can't check them, but it's the idea that counts.

Along with account icons, next to your account icon was your account level (at least i remember it being displayed, if it wasn't it should have been, but i'm damn sure it was). Players who competed in ladder play earned a ladder rank.


Needless to say, when you saw a lvl 32 ladder ranking player log in with the highest earnable account icon, if you had a shred of decency as a player, you payed respect, because you knew that guy could kick your ass in the arena. And similar to HoN's "most played heroes", the account icon was based on the race you won the matches with, so if your opponent toted around a 250 Forsaken wins icon, chances are you are going to play against Forsaken, and should adjust your strategy accordingly.


What concerns me about the current debates over sheilds and earning vs. buying, is that effectiveness between the two is not mutually exclusive. Currently there is nothing that can only be bought, and there is nothing that can only be earned.

This point recieves much flaming due to it's implications. Buyers can't stand the idea of not being able to buy something with their hard earned money and Earners can't stand the idea of not being able to earn something.

S2 did a great job addressing this issue by making some things in the shop purchasable with real money, and unrealistic to earn. You can earn it if you are really dedicated, but it's a real grind, and you have to EARN it.

The only issue I see with this model is that doesn't matter if you earn something if it doesn't exclusively represent the efforts you put into it. You may have that expensive Wretched Hag model that you spent weeks of HoNing to be able to afford, but your still going to get ppl making fun of you for "spending your real money on it", because that is the most likely way you got it. And you can forget about a player using a Wretched Hag model getting recognition from other players for "supporting HoN with their own money".

A possible solution to consider is to keep things as they are, but introduce an additional 2 exclusive account features such as was seen in warcraft three. A measure of players skill such as an account level ( and yes i know account level and psr exist currently, but we all know how accurately that depicts skill ), and a measure of time put into the game such as the account icons earned based on how many victories you had with a single rance in WCIII.

I want a feature in HoN that allows me to flex my E-Peen. I want to earn something that can only be earned in one way, by being good, and i want to earn something that can only be earned by time put into the game.

Players should be rewarded for three things (in no particular order of importance):

1. How much time they put into the game
2. How good they are at the game
3. How much they support the company with their own money

And currently there is all this arguement over what should be earnable, purchasable, how much things should cost, and the intangible values associated with such items, because right now, nothing is exclusive towards those three points of reward

Just something to think about. Congrats to those of you who read this whole post. I hope this is well recieved, and that something constructive comes of it. Good job so far S2, Keep up the improvements!

TaroEld
07-15-2011, 01:16 PM
Lol, I don't care.
Edit: Well, those guys who buy coins support S2games, so they=bawz.

Sauron`
07-15-2011, 01:20 PM
I don't want to sound like a troll......but seriously all this for a Cosmetic Shield?.......really?

yotmato
07-15-2011, 01:28 PM
can someone tl;dr

Shadow54
07-15-2011, 01:29 PM
I read the whole post and i have to agree on all the points, i also want to add one thing though... There is allready a level system implemented in the game, and we all know it's completely worthless as you just need to play a lot to level it ( even if you lose you don't get further away to get it or anything).
That said, i believe it would be a great extra to the game if there was not one but several levels and if the levels were based on something else other than amoutn fo games played.

for exemple, each player could have 3 levels, one for each atributte (str, agi and int) or maybe the level could be an average of the level of each hero.

There are so many options that i don't dare say which one is better but that would without doubt give a better understanding of a player skill level which is something we are in dire need in HoN

Hugsforpeace
07-15-2011, 01:31 PM
I'll pay $50 to be at the top of every chat room. Also, I would like a green shield as I am rich and it is my favorite color.

<3
Hugs

Brosef
07-15-2011, 01:34 PM
I'll pay $50 to be at the top of every chat room. Also, I would like a green shield as I am rich and it is my favorite color.

<3
Hugs

I'll pay $51 to be top of the chat room, above green shield. Also I want my name in topaz-emerald.

If you're going to do it big, do it right.

Hugsforpeace
07-15-2011, 01:35 PM
I'll pay $51 to be top of the chat room, above green shield. Also I want my name in topaz-emerald.

If you're going to do it big, do it right.
$55 and I want my name in topaz-emerald with gold trim.

Go big or go home son.

<3
Hugs

AJitator
07-15-2011, 01:54 PM
you have too much time in your hand dude.

go get a job / hobby / gf.

you're putting too much energy on stupid little bullshit that only retards care about

_Miyavi
07-15-2011, 01:56 PM
Eff the shields, I want a freaking sword!!

Micee
07-15-2011, 01:59 PM
Read the whole post and was surprised it wasent a troll :p
Really good points and agree on them, i think s2 should take a look on this cause it would probably apeal the community and make ppl(in general) take the game more seriously => More ppl trying to go competative and making the scene grow => Makes HoN grow => profit for evryone involved.

Thou s2 promised big changes incoming in last honcast vod maby they already thought about it?

Else plz atleast consider it :)


BIG UPS!

The``Master
07-15-2011, 02:04 PM
I am a fan of this.

Lynx
07-15-2011, 02:05 PM
2 words: GROW UP.

MacroHard
07-15-2011, 02:05 PM
As long as everybody has the same opportunity to do either its a moot point.

Dont want to spend real cash? Better play more.
Dont want play 100 hours yet still want the extras? Spend that dough.
Want to be a forum troll and get freebies without doing either of the above? GTFO.

Fenita
07-15-2011, 02:28 PM
"1. How do we decide the order in which icons are displayed in the chat rooms? Cost vs. Rarity vs. Color Value (diamond being more precious than purple therefore having a higher value)

2. How do we decide the cost of shields? "

I don't think "we" decide that, S2 does.

kilamanila
07-15-2011, 02:48 PM
you have too much time in your hand dude.

go get a job / hobby / gf.

you're putting too much energy on stupid little bullshit that only retards care about

I wont hold it against you for not reading the whole post, but I would like you to know that I mentioned in the post that i wasn't able to look up certain info because i was/am at work. HoN is my hobby, and when I have downtime at work, I browse forums and attempt to contribute. You should try to contribute every once and a while. Good things happen!

AyeJayAre
07-15-2011, 02:50 PM
"1. How do we decide the order in which icons are displayed in the chat rooms? Cost vs. Rarity vs. Color Value (diamond being more precious than purple therefore having a higher value)

2. How do we decide the cost of shields? "

I don't think "we" decide that, S2 does.


I believe he meant "we" as the community that plays HoN, of that S2 staff is apart of. They are just the executive branch. It's a valid question.

kilamanila
07-15-2011, 02:55 PM
I believe he meant "we" as the community that plays HoN, of that S2 staff is apart of. They are just the executive branch. It's a valid question.

Thank you. :D

kilamanila
07-15-2011, 03:27 PM
bump

MooseMoose
07-15-2011, 03:31 PM
I thought mmr was to flex your epeen and show skill not how many games you've played.. either way I don't care about being on top of the chat room purple = sexy

iprolyh8u
07-15-2011, 03:33 PM
I want a evil monkey running through my name :D

KingBane
07-15-2011, 03:51 PM
people really will cry about absolutely anything....

kilamanila
07-15-2011, 06:17 PM
bump for great justice

Corpsy
07-15-2011, 06:19 PM
Useless thread, S2 already decided the order.

Purple.
Diamond.
Gold.
Silver.
White.

That's all, that is from the developers themselves and that's the only order there is.

ThisIsAddict
07-15-2011, 06:20 PM
If you feel you have the money to buy gold coins, why would you don't ?
I mean, some people can afford spending money to buy stuff in a video, others don't. But does it really matter? It is not like it add any gameplay improvement(s). "lololol my name's purple I'm better than you", if you see a serious player saying this, I make reconsider my point of view.

Omgopolis
07-15-2011, 06:23 PM
This is important.
I won't lie; I didn't read the entire post. But this colorful text caught my eye, and I have to say I disagree. I couldn't care less about where I am positioned in chat lists based on my gold shield (which I also don't care about). It's really trivial stuff, so I'm okay with whatever S2 decides to do in their attempts to maximize profits.

Mikenator18
07-15-2011, 06:24 PM
>People go into thread
>See large wall of text
>Open comments "**** YOU OP"


All in an attempt to mask there stupidity. Classy

ROT
07-15-2011, 06:32 PM
all sheilds are meaningless before the pink names

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll15/Jihadlol/honlul.jpg

`SunTzu
07-15-2011, 06:33 PM
earning = not viable.

it would take about a million hours of hon gameplay to buy the purp name color. i did the math, and averaging 25 minute games, and 20 coins per game (massively generous on both accounts) it would take OVER 104 HOURS OF GAMEPLAY to amass the 5000 coins needed to buy the purple color.

buying = viable.

Vampiress
07-15-2011, 06:50 PM
Why players enjoy games:

1. Social Aspect
-enjoy playing with friends
-enjoy trash talking opponents
-enjoy trolling allies

You are kidding, right? That is not social behaviour. It is anti-social.

Sentura
07-15-2011, 06:54 PM
spending 20 bucks on being shown on top in a random chatroom, lmao.

the best thing is that s2 staff are STILL higher and they're getting paid for being there.

Liability
07-15-2011, 07:01 PM
I read the entire thing, but missed the whole point of the thread.

Waikama
07-16-2011, 12:50 AM
What ever you will spent on other shitty shields, you will never be as cool as we are :goldenshield: :goldenshield: :goldenshield: :goldenshield: :goldenshield: