Lion's Challenge

[Medieve]

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii83/Medieve/monkeylionicon.jpg
Image by Me :)

Lion's Challenge
A pendant given to the brave, this item allows the carrier to punish enemies that would target your allies and protect yourself from the swarm tactics favored by the weak.

Item Bonuses
+6 Strength
+6 Intelligence
+6 Agility
+20 Damage
+5 Armor

When you attack a target they receive the Marked status for 3 seconds, which decreases their damage and damages them each time they attack anyone but targets with Valorous Action.
In addition, while the item carrier is actively attacking a target he receives Valorous Action for 3 seconds, which grants bonus armor against the attacks of everyone except for Marked targets.


Marked
Takes 40 (30*) true damage and deals -50% (-30%*) base damage on each attack against targets without Valorous Action.
Duration: 3 seconds
*Effects are reduced if the item owner is ranged


Valorous Action
+5 armor against attacking heroes that are not Marked.
Duration: 3 seconds

Components
http://i33.tinypic.com/2ms27hz.jpg Ring Mail - 550
http://i35.tinypic.com/hs6cnp.jpg Broadsword - 1200
http://i38.tinypic.com/2upwcaf.jpg Major Totem - 540

Recipe Cost - 1000

Total Item Cost - 3290

QA--------------------------------------------

Why'd you make this item?
- It seemed to me that the intelligence heroes and to a lesser degree, agility heroes were getting all the nifty effect items.

Who would get this item?
- Characters meant to tank of course. But also, it could be an interesting item on a more defensive agility character. The secondary item allows agility characters to get into a team fight and helps allow them to survive being focus-fired.

How does this item support the current item makeup of the game?
- It seems to me that most of the items that strength characters get either block damage or makes them more meaty. However, these effects only are helpful if they are being attacked, and depending on the specific hero makeups they might actually be the ones least targeted. This item helps to fill a more active tanking role where the carrier is calling more attention to themselves.

What sort of special balancing considerations were there in this item?
- Admittedly, the amount of damage reduced (50%) was sort of pulled out of my ass. But it sounded like a good number, it effectively allows you to "project" tankiness. The damage taken each attack was referenced from the item Barbed Armor (http://honwiki.net/wiki/Barbed_Armor) actually. With Barbed Armor they chose to give a passive +22 damage to the item (the two items are similar in composition and cost) so I took that off the passive bonuses and then "gave" the damage to the enemy, increasing it to 40 because of its circumstantial nature. They don't take any damage if they attack the carrier of the item and the carrier of the item doesn't benefit from any passive increase of damage (except maybe by the strength bonus).

[Nome]

Interesting mechanic. Can't find any flaws with it--well-balanced numbers, good concept, and could find some niche use with tanks. Could use a debuff duration though. 2-3 seconds would be fine.

[docterj208]

this image gives me joy :)

[Evil_Andrex]

Good nicely balanced numbers, good concept for an assissting item, very unique. T-up

[Shadowcamsy]

Aha, at last, a fix for tanks to let them actually tank for once, very good idea. I think the damage from the broadsword probably needs to be retained in the final recipe but the concept is excellent. T-up

[Blockk]

I think you should change the broadsword to just a simple recipe, as the item doesn't give any pure damage.

[Medieve]

Originally I had the damage from the broadsword in the passives but then I had to resolve why the item would give +22 damage plus another 40 damage on top of the -50% damage reduction. I'm open to taking stuff out of the components list if thats what the majority opinion is or even leaving the damage in the passives if you think it wouldn't make the item too cheap for its effect. I would rather keep the total cost around this range since I don't believe it is a core end-game item but the ability is too useful to make it much less expensive, though just how useful could be argued about.

[Ragnarok17]

Interesting. Definitely unique.

I vote yes, don't really need a second thought as you made the image yourself. Good for you :).

[Hippie]

I like it. Anything that makes tank heroes actually good people to focus is a plus in my book - as is, they usually just blow their cooldowns and then sit there with giant HP bars that nobody cares about.

[RenoFox]

Hmm, Interesting item, I could imagine me using this.
T-up

[Doggan]

Seems like a very anti-carry item for tanks. Like the idea. T-up.

[Medieve]

Odd, didn't I make this a public poll?

[Rumple4skin]

I can see this being used on others besides just a tank, like a ranged unit just to reduce a carry's damage on someone. You might have to make this a melee only effect like cleave or some other balance tweaks like what happens if every single player gets this item in a match where does the damage go?

[Hippie]

Odd, didn't I make this a public poll?

It's supposed to be private now - the mods might have changed it for you.

[Medieve]

It's supposed to be private now - the mods might have changed it for you.

Huh, interesting.

Anyways, about multiple heroes grabbing Lion's Challenge. I think my hotfix would be that attacking any target with Valorous Action (all of these buffs should have visual effects I imagine) would allow you to ignore the damage reduction and damage taken for attacking.

::EDIT:: Changed the Marked status to reflect contingencies of multiple heroes having Lion's Challenge.

[Shrieve]

I've read a considerable amount of item suggestions and this is the only one I've read that really just jumped out at me saying, "Wow! This item needs to be in Heroes of Newerth!". A+

[Medieve]

Suggesting a visual description to the debuffs.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii83/Medieve/liondebuff.jpg
^ Marked graphic I'd think would look similar to D2's thorn aura for paladin but reversed animation so that the aura would be rotating into himself.

As for Valorous action I imagine a nice glowing lion head above the hero would nifty, though I wonder if thats too over the top because it'll basically be up all the time while he is attacking. Or what if it was some sort of shape similar to Plague Rider's shield but with a golden glow instead of crazy bone-claw theme?

[Medieve]

Request additional pylons!

[Medieve]

Can we put this in popular suggestions plzkthx

[Medieve]

Cleaned up some of the language in the status descriptions to make it read much better.

[Shrieve]

Why isn't this in the game yet?

[argnoferich]

It looks complicated but I guess I'm more of a practice than theory kind of guy. It's interesting. I support it.

[Medieve]

:o

Four no's? But this item is perfect!

[tHe_silent_H]

:o

Four no's? But this item is perfect!

Obviously they don't get joy out of HoN

[Medieve]

What poor bitter people.

::EDIT::

OH! I just noticed, I didn't suggest a damage type for the 40 damage the attacker takes. Can anyone suggest any particular reason why it ought to be physical or magical?

[kamimage]

what a sweet idea! i hope this makes it in.

[NuneShelping]

Nice, I like it...

[Fieri]

An item like this should be in the game in some form or another.

[CRUNCHMASTER]

Whatever the animation for these buffs is it should be highly noticeable to draw loads of attention to yourself for it to work well.

Great idea.

[flibble]

I really like the concept of this item

+1 from me

[Steppelhoff]

mispost

[Steppelhoff]

I think it should only avaiable for melee heroes. FA with void stone would be funny :). Up for ya

[Gringos]

I'm sorry, but I have no idea in which situation I would buy this item in favor of another. 3000 gold wasted in my opinion.

[CheshireCat]

Seems like a psuedo-taunt item. It could probably prove itself useful. T-ups

[Medieve]

I'm sorry, but I have no idea in which situation I would buy this item in favor of another. 3000 gold wasted in my opinion.

The situation where you are rescuing a teammate, he takes half-damage from his attacker and you deal damage to the attacker each time they attack.

[Duey]

I really really like the item, but it seems like a poor investment for 3000g, Broadsword just seems so out of place in this item, i would consider changing it to Helm of the Victim and changing the passive bonus to:

+10 Strength
+10 Armor

and then adding to the valorous action buff:


+4 Health Regeneration
+5 armor against attacking heroes that are not Marked.
Duration: 3 seconds


Since this is a tank item Helm of the Victim fits its profile a lot better. Helm of the Victim has to be one of the best tanking items out there for its price but only makes 1 tank item, which is shaman's headdress, the other 2 are Insanitarius and Whispering Helm. However this is a pretty buff item for its price, so I would consider also adding 100-200g to its recipe cost to compensate.

[Xozzen]

love the item

the picture brings huge joy, you got my vote because of it

[Medieve]

Honestly, I suspect the components that make up the item will change, but theres really no right way to build a component list in my opinion. Better that I at least pin down an appropriate sounding gold cost and an effect.

Kind'uv a bummer no new items made it into this last patch. I'm feeling very good about this item.

[Neksol]

Fantastic concept with amazing possibilities. Absolutely love it, T-up.

[Steven]

Cleaned up some of the language in the status descriptions to make it read much better.

I agree, i have no idea what this even does except make the person being attacked have less damage against thier attacker.

Sorry but as a person who plays intel a lot and watching tanks win games late game i dont agree with a item that would make me weaker to a tank.

Could you imagine predator getting this item? Hes already slows you, most likely has life steal and goes magic immune. Now you want him to be able to get less incoming damage? LOLOL

[Rampage]

Great concept. T-up.

My suggestion, however, is that you change Broadsword (1200) to Mighty Axe (1000), and then up the recipe by say... 200-400? And the final bonuses could be 20 Str and 5 armour.

Because that finally means there is an early-to-mid, with a late game debuff tanking item, and I believe that is VERY needed. The only other option you have is Vanguard... and then Behe's Heart... Nothing pure strength gain.

[Damage]

Different for sure. Would be awesome on Legionnaire and Accursed.

[Xozzen]

this item has to be in the game, so... bump!

[Medieve]

Great concept. T-up.

My suggestion, however, is that you change Broadsword (1200) to Mighty Axe (1000), and then up the recipe by say... 200-400? And the final bonuses could be 20 Str and 5 armour.

Because that finally means there is an early-to-mid, with a late game debuff tanking item, and I believe that is VERY needed. The only other option you have is Vanguard... and then Behe's Heart... Nothing pure strength gain.

I tried to avoid making the item too ostentatiously strength-oriented. I think thats more in keeping with what S2 is trying to do with items. The broadsword makes it combat-related without relying too much on being a strength-hero to have damage.

[Xozzen]

besides bump... is this an attack modifier? because it places a debuff but you didn't state anything about that

[VitaTimH]

Meh, does anyone else find this amazingly imba? It's a good idea, but IMO it's another blademail waiting to happen. I think this would propel heroes like Legionnaire and Accursed straight to the top... 50% damage reduction and a penalty on each attack not on the person you want to be attacking the least? That's pretty horrifying in my eyes.

[Forfeit]

Do not like. The way HoN is now, and DotA has always been, is that if you want to be focused, you need to be a threat. This is just some obnoxious way of adding a tanking system, which HoN does not need.

Maybe make an item that a "tanky" hero could buy that you could use on an ally, and it would transfer a percent of the damage they take to yourself for a duration?

[resp]

quite ingenious concept. T-up, good job. would be nice to have it in game tbh

[Nome]

Still one of my favorite item suggs.

[Medieve]

I've updated the item with some feedback changes:

- The item now grants +20 damage passively
- The durations on both buff and debuff reduced to 2 seconds
- The effects of the item are now reduced for ranged heroes
- Damage taken while marked changed to true damage and reduced to 30/20 damage from 40 damage.
- Increased recipe cost to 1000, bringing the total cost to 3200 gold

[Xozzen]

I don't see why it should have lesser effect to ranged units. -30% basedamage is much better to go with than -50%.
Still best item out here, I want S2 to comment on this :)

[Medieve]

I don't see why it should have lesser effect to ranged units. -30% basedamage is much better to go with than -50%.
Still best item out here, I want S2 to comment on this :)

The nerf was over some discussion about how easy it would be for a ranged hero to afflict multiple heroes with the debuff. Not to mention they just have an easier time reaching targets that you would want debuffed, whereas a melee hero would have to be right on top of another hero and hitting him to put the debuff in action and much less likely to be striking multiple heroes with the debuff.

Also, I rethought shortening the duration and decided to undo the duration nerf due to the ranged nerf.

[Medieve]

Changes:

- Old recipe called for bolstering armband
- New recipe calls for Major Totem
- True damage increased from 30(20) to 40(30)
- Total item cost increased by 90 gold overall

Reasoning: I decided the recipe was too strength oriented and the actual item effects would be useful on a number of heroes so I've spread out the stats a bit to help indicate this.

[Gortrok]

Love the item! The only foreseeable problem is that Zephyr and Legionnaire will be even more annoying to deal with xD

Your latest change steered it away from being strength-oriented, but why? Tanks are mostly strength characters (okay, Defiler and Zephyr can be tanks, but whatever, they shouldn't get everything).

You wanted this item to be primarily a strength hero item, so why not make it less useful for agility and intelligence heroes? :)

[Medieve]

I think you misunderstand me, I didn't want it to be too strength oriented but I'm actually thinking I might have a change of heart. Looking at the item now, I think the +6 to all stats feels a bit out of place and random. Anyone else feel that the item needs to go back to all strength? Or maybe not even strength, but have it give health only? Its oddly appropriate to make it require a Beastheart to make...

[Krypteia]

F*ck those agi carries. Make it 4500g though.

Don't let it give hp, that's part of downside that makes it balanced. Even the armor you threw in might be too much.