Counter bottle mid?

[Chickenfoo]

Ok, over the games i have played i have soloed mid a few times. one thing i hate is when i'm up against zues with a bottle. so the whole time he just keeps nuking the hell out of me and it really sucks because he just gets low mana then heals it all to full. I no he is being a noob this way but how do i counter that? Also sometimes he is gone for like 30 seconded or less and comes back with a full bottle or a rune. what should i do and how.

P.S lets say there is a scout on there team that put wards on both spots? what should me/team do?

[Avathacis]

Pick Slither and play ward build. Just plant the wards only on level 5 and TB won't be able to do ****.
Try to check the classical ward spots if they have scout to kill the wards, you can also get your own wards.

[Drasha]

Get a flying courier and steal the runes :D

[Reonhato]

1 option is power supply, another option is winged courier to help beating him to runes

[Droggeltasse]

The runes does not spawn at random times they spawn every 2 minutes so you could just get the runes before him.
If you dont have a scout you can buy wards to see if the rune spawns top or bottom.
If he is walking every time to the rune spot when the 2 minutes are over you can easy gang him there with help of the side lane.
Another thing that would work against a weaker player is to use a courier. A courier can use the rune and deny them this way.
Often if you cant get anything going against him and he is not that good you can try to avoid him and just try to deny as much as possible. If he gets a bottle first he has very low base dmg and because he leaves so often you can try to outlvl him.

[binbo]

Pick Slither and play ward build. Just plant the wards only on level 5 and TB won't be able to do ****.
Try to check the classical ward spots if they have scout to kill the wards, you can also get your own wards.
And the bonus: if you can't get to the rune before they do, you can use the ward to kill the rune!

[DemonSouL]

I no he is being a noob this way but how do i counter that?

I don't see why a zeus getting a bottle and using it well is being noob. If you're soloing mid, get a hero that is actually good for soloing mid, ward the rune parts yourself and beat him to it. One way that isn't that great would be to get to one of the rune spots about 3 seconds before the runes spawn and just wait and see if you get lucky. You might get ganked, and you might get unlucky with the spawning of it, but unless this zeus can solo you easily (which he can't since he spammed all his mana?) you will be able to take some of the runes.

[Puchi]

There are a few things that you can do to prevent your opponent in mid to rune whore:

1. Wards
Use wards on one of the rune spots
2. Check Miss
If you opponent dissapares around x.40-x.50 he will prolly check for a rune, walk in the same direction as him and try to deny him the rune
3. Slither
play slither and put 1 skill in wards and use them as scouts for u

[ilovetemplar]

If you meet a bottlefirst zeus you should be happy, because you have 50% chance to **** up his game for 2 minutes every 2 minute! Also you could get a magicstick, one of the best counters to that hero, other than that, bottle counters bottle. If you have a stunner, you can go the same way he goes before rune spawns, or you can go the other way and get the rune there since it might spawn there aswell. Zeus is just as worthless without mana, as he is dangerous with mana. So ur prio should be neglect him the runes.

[Process]

Scream into mic for side lanes to ninja runes.

[HighlifeTTU]

You just need to work on your rune control. There are plenty of good guides if you use the search function.

Also, remember that Thunderbringer is very mana dependent, and his spells don't really have the punch they need to bring you down until level 5. Until this point, constantly harass him, as the damage he can deal out is relatively low compared to his cooldowns.

Finally, if you see him move top or bottom before the 2 minute mark (when a rune spawns) he is likely gambling on the spawn. At that point, move to the opposite rune location to see if you get the 50% draw.

Really, just focus on rune guides. Rune control can make or break the early game depending on the runes that spawn. Haste or Double Damage can mean some early kills given the right toon.

[BodyHammer]

Bottle first opponents are very easy to kill. Focus most of your attention on knocking down his health and mana with pot shots while conserving your own mana. When he runs for a run, you go as well and unleash on him when he is unprotected. This is one of the easiest methods of getting a first blood in and ensures they stay underfarmed. Rinse and repeat this method when possible every 2 minutes.

[AlmightyOne1]

side question: can a flying courier pick up a rune in a bottle and then deliver it to you?

[jar]

no, the flying courier can pick up a rune for itself though. you scout one rune spawn while the courier hangs back at the other spawn and magic immunity and sprint it in if the rune didn't spawn on the side you picked. you can deny a lot of runes this way.

[Villezzz]

The only thing you can do is actually buy wards:
You'll get the rune in ~75% of the cases anyway and if you don't you still know what rune it is and where he is going.
Furthermore, if he just useses runes to come back to lane and spam his bolts you can be happy that he's wasting his potential.

[GreyShot020]

Choose valk and arrow that **** when they go for it haha :P Free kill!

[EpiX_Whiner]

Also, remember that Thunderbringer is very mana dependent, and his spells don't really have the punch they need to bring you down until level 5. Until this point, constantly harass him, as the damage he can deal out is relatively low compared to his cooldowns.
.

i loled.... stop post unless you have a clue....:rolleyes:

[Warbler]

Ok, over the games i have played i have soloed mid a few times. one thing i hate is when i'm up against zues with a bottle. so the whole time he just keeps nuking the hell out of me and it really sucks because he just gets low mana then heals it all to full. I no he is being a noob this way but how do i counter that? Also sometimes he is gone for like 30 seconded or less and comes back with a full bottle or a rune. what should i do and how.

P.S lets say there is a scout on there team that put wards on both spots? what should me/team do?

Well he's not being a noob, he's harassing you. You have to stay out of his nuke range, gank him, or switch lanes with someone who can handle him. Also you should try playing Plaguerider in the same lane as TB - most of the time you'll wreck him if you play smart :]

Oh and buy 6 runes or more to begin with.

[Chickenfoo]

Well he's not being a noob, he's harassing you. You have to stay out of his nuke range, gank him, or switch lanes with someone who can handle him. Also you should try playing Plaguerider in the same lane as TB - most of the time you'll wreck him if you play smart :]

Oh and buy 6 runes or more to begin with.

ok sorry for calling him a noob, just alot of people tell me that wasting your mana with out a chance to accutaly get a kill is stuiped. thats why a wrote that.. my bad.

[crazysheep]

ok sorry for calling him a noob, just alot of people tell me that wasting your mana with out a chance to accutaly get a kill is stuiped. thats why a wrote that.. my bad.

Harassing isn't a bad way of trying to get an early kill. Especially for bottle first Thunderbringer with CL/LR/BL/BL/BL, level 5 kills aren't too rare. Key is to harass your opponent out of farm range.

But of course, take note of 2 things: TB has a low attack range, although his cast range is quite far. And as most of the above posters have noted, Bottle first means that he lacks the stats to hold out against physical attacks. Using say, Slither or Plague Rider, you could theoretically hold your own against TB early, with harasses of your own. [Slither's Wards cost ~20 mana, Plague Rider has technically infinite mana thanks to Extinguish]

[Whiteblade]

Put pressure on him with autoattacks or carry some healing along with stat items. Basically if he doesn't have a courier you should be able to outlast him even if the person is playing very aggressive. Worst case you can try to bait him and ask for help from another player to shut him down once or twice which should give you a big enough lead to hold onto the runes.

[JOSHPFANBOY]

Thunderbringer has a super slow movement speed. I raped a bottle zeus with maliken, beat him to every rune, harassed with sword throw, denied runes/killed him with ult.

Try a soul reaper with a bottle and his teammates nice enough to buy him a personal flying courier to refresh his bottle at the fountain.

[Runo]

Harassing isn't a bad way of trying to get an early kill. Especially for bottle first Thunderbringer with CL/LR/BL/BL/BL, level 5 kills aren't too rare. Key is to harass your opponent out of farm range.

But of course, take note of 2 things: TB has a low attack range, although his cast range is quite far. And as most of the above posters have noted, Bottle first means that he lacks the stats to hold out against physical attacks. Using say, Slither or Plague Rider, you could theoretically hold your own against TB early, with harasses of your own. [Slither's Wards cost ~20 mana, Plague Rider has technically infinite mana thanks to Extinguish]

If you do go that build, thats why you think zeus is weak early game. You go bolt/static/bolt/chain/bolt/ult/bolt. You can deal 400 damage at level 1 to 3 and be at 75% mana at level 3 without using your bottle charges.

There are a lot of heros that will win a close quarters battle at runes if you do it right. Two examples are voodoo and valk. Basically, hero who has a stun, blink, long range attack, or high damage close range like maledict. However, the smartest item to get on these heros mid anyways is bottle.

A good bottle player will slowly win mid against someone who isnt one, usually regardless of hero, and a good bottle player ganks the side lanes with his runes. You aren't doing your job properly middle, everything he is doing is what you should be doing.

[Isin]

I always find it fun to go solo mid with Pestilence against a Thunderbringer. You should be able to kill him two or three times (unless he is better than you...) with flight+stun. I got to the point where I was level 9 and he was level 6 and I would just tower dive him every time he came back to the lane. Just be careful for ganks :P