PDA

View Full Version : [Interface] Turning Community More Friendly



PetriPure
07-05-2011, 05:47 AM
Moved from General Disscusion. Original post (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=13869646#post13869646). Witam wszystkich / Welcome all.

Since time immemorial I've always taken special care to balancing. Both in real life and in sphere of gaming, spreading the word that it’s good if You consider Your time at work as joyful, but in no circumstances is it good if You treat things that bring You joy as Your job and duty. I ask myself; when do we treat games as a duty? It happens often when we face anarchy, lawlessness and anomie, etc. and at some point a particular part of us stop’s taking joy from the game while the other still cherish the base idea of the game. We play it to spend our free time doing something that brings us joy. So we close one’s eyes on the griefers, cheaters, glitchers, kids hackers, flamers, spammers and all the trolls that try to ruin our free time. It’s like choosing minor evil, but deep inside of us we are getting more and more frustrated, to a point where we clearly see no point in playing the game only because of those tiny peaces of puzzle that ruin the whole pleasure.

Not bringing up names of all the great games that I’ve played so far, I regret having to put away quite a few of them due to some deeply wounding aspects of their gameplay. If I could point one thing that ruins the community of Heroes of Newerth, I think that my pick would go on stats. Now hear me out, I know that it’s nothing bad to be excited about a high Kill/Death but the most destructive aspect of it is bringing the whole stat idea up to a person’s face. As an example in Battlefield series You can record Your stats but no one judges You upon them, same goes to Team Fortress. Ok I understand that they are shooters, but then again let’s move to strategic games, World in Conflict show’s Your statistics but the community doesn’t put that much pressure on it, same goes to RUSE and Brother at Arms.

My idea (let’s hope, a good one) would be to make statistics private. All that would be seen public would be number of games played, number of games won, percentage column showing which hero role we play most often Agility / Intelligence / Strength, possibly how many times did we smack downed, or do we favorite Range or Melee. Because the most important information for Your team mates during the hero pick screen shouldn’t be a person’s psr, or kd, but how to fit the role in the team. Most important we should have highlighted three tags describing our roles in most games; pusher, initiator, ganker, carry, healer, etc, so people would know what to expect of You. I’m sure that it would benefit the team integrity.
Also the Match Making Rewarding system shouldn’t be public. People wouldn’t be so greedy about buying those wards and placing them on spawn, or kill stealing to get immortal. People should be happy when they watch the ending screen hoping that they did good, and not being a (excuse me for the epithet) dick for the whole game knowing that they would be rewarded anyway with the highest coins up come.

But then Again we reach to the essence of this post, let’s call it the double bottom. I would like to know how do You guys feel about current state of community filled with flamers and haters, what do You think would positively impact the community, what change do we need?
This topic was made to help S2 and all HON Fan’s to maintain a healthy atmosphere in the community.

Peace out.
Kisses.
______________
EDIT:
Making things clear upon what does the change focus on.
* Setting Match Making rewarding system to unrevealed
* Setting detail stats private
* (optional)Being able to give permission on stat insight to friends
* Public stats should be seen in hero selection screen near player name, and should include only:
+Number of games played
+Percentage games won
+Three Role tag, representing what role You suit in most games (Healer, Initiator, Pusher etc.)
+(optional)Favorite hero pick
+Percentage of hero archetype choices made Agility / Intelligence / Strenght
+Smack down number

PetriPure
07-06-2011, 05:49 AM
First.
Take it, love it.

PetriPure
07-08-2011, 05:52 AM
Spreading some love.

MajuiF
07-08-2011, 11:12 AM
Stats are too big of a factor to be made Private. So are MM stats.

I always enjoy knowing who I'm playing with (since I'm solo-queuing all the time), and who I'm playing against, knowing what to expect. And that goes through KDR, ADR, Wards placed and hero usage.

The HoN community in-game is pretty terrible, but it's the case for most MOBA games. Whenever you can see one's stats you can pick on them, comparing yourself with them.

And in your philosophical wall-of-text, even though is well written, you mention people "not judging you upon your stats". You can't compare a FPS and a MOBA game. That would be saying oranges are better than headphones, because you can eat them.

The community is trash, but it's a fact. All one can do is try and not spread the hate.

IMHO.

Dgandalf
07-08-2011, 05:59 PM
The community is a ****, its shame to call your older friends to join the game because its almost unplayable due to the flamers and the way players behave, including the ones that don't want to concede when its like 64:13.

PetriPure
07-09-2011, 05:35 AM
MajuiF is it that important to know the person's age, name, skin color to fall in love? For me, love is more about the feeling of butterflies when i meet that person, the energy i get whenever with it's company, the thought that i can manage everything with that person by my side. My proposition of keeping only most crucial information doesn't ruin Your believe in wishing to know what person You are playing with. Do You really care that much about the persons kd when You see how many times did he win? is it that important what's his psr/mmr, when You see what he does in most games? Will Your psr and kd help Your team chose the best and compatible pick up during the hero selection screen? I don’t think so sunshine, i don’t think that showing everyone how many times did You kill steal or how many times did You had a lucky team, will increase Your currents team chances of integrity in the Match.

Thysios
07-09-2011, 05:40 AM
So you're saying S2 should hide the stats and it will reduce rage?

Ever play DotA?

pathaN
07-09-2011, 01:35 PM
Stats are too big of a factor to be made Private. So are MM stats.

I always enjoy knowing who I'm playing with (since I'm solo-queuing all the time), and who I'm playing against, knowing what to expect. And that goes through KDR, ADR, Wards placed and hero usage.

The HoN community in-game is pretty terrible, but it's the case for most MOBA games. Whenever you can see one's stats you can pick on them, comparing yourself with them.

And in your philosophical wall-of-text, even though is well written, you mention people "not judging you upon your stats". You can't compare a FPS and a MOBA game. That would be saying oranges are better than headphones, because you can eat them.

The community is trash, but it's a fact. All one can do is try and not spread the hate.

IMHO.

I think Starcraft 2 demonstrates exactly how effective you can be, even when having your stats hidden provided your matching making system and hidden MMR implementation is intelligent and rock-solid robust.

SC2's matching making system is so complex people have wrote pages trying to explain how they think it works. And thats what makes it good or makes it work/viable i.e. the time and effort put into making it. source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273

What is needed is simply an interest or reason to work in that direction. If S2 try's i'm sure it can be achieved.

Quasar
07-09-2011, 01:39 PM
hidden poll results hidden stats

f***ing hide from the game too please. Can't handle psr? Play no stats:) enjoy and don't bother us with your fail.
thanks <3

MajuiF
07-10-2011, 07:53 PM
I think Starcraft 2 demonstrates exactly how effective you can be, even when having your stats hidden provided your matching making system and hidden MMR implementation is intelligent and rock-solid robust.
You're playing solo in Starcraft 2. HoN is a team-game. Also SC 2's MM algorithm (as you said it), pairs you with people of the same skill-level. WHich is obviously not the case in HoN.

I don't mind not knowing who I'm playing against in SC2. However, I do mind who I'm playing WITH in HoN.

If stats are hidden, not knowing who you're playing with, while soloqueuing in MM, I'd be pretty annoyed.

Also, the fact that stats can also reveal if the other team is a 5-man stomping team, I think they have their utility.

MajuiF
07-10-2011, 07:56 PM
MajuiF is it that important to know the person's age, name, skin color to fall in love? For me, love is more about the feeling of butterflies when i meet that person, the energy i get whenever with it's company, the thought that i can manage everything with that person by my side. My proposition of keeping only most crucial information doesn't ruin Your believe in wishing to know what person You are playing with. Do You really care that much about the persons kd when You see how many times did he win? is it that important what's his psr/mmr, when You see what he does in most games? Will Your psr and kd help Your team chose the best and compatible pick up during the hero selection screen? I donít think so sunshine, i donít think that showing everyone how many times did You kill steal or how many times did You had a lucky team, will increase Your currents team chances of integrity in the Match.
Nice parallel between love and HoN, quite cute.
Stats have their utility, and removing them will not reduce the rage. Ever.

As I previously said, MOBA game's communities are terrible, people bash on each other all the time, stats or not. They'll comment on how bad you are in-game or stuff like that.

Hiding the stats will only "delay" the trash-talking phase. Instead of being before the game or in the lobby, it'll be during the game and after it.

What's the point?
Seriously, bad idea is a bad idea.

PetriPure
07-12-2011, 06:05 AM
MajuiF actually it would be a pretty nice change to receive a troll and trash talking after the game, instead of during the pick phase or in the match.

I'm serious You're just convincing me more about the soundness of this thread, clearing all of my doubts.

Stats would not be removed, but set to private. I'm force to say it again and again and quite frankly it's getting boring, and i bet i'm not the only one suffering from boredom.

Detail stats should be put on private, or occasionally on friend invite only if You really care so much about publishing them. Bringing them to a persons face doesn’t help in any way in integrating the team, on the contrary it brings more hate and prejudgment then anything else.
Why? Because they are imperfect, and yes there isn’t a way to put in stats how many times did You kill steal or were kill robed. Or if You sacrificed for the team, saving Your team mate, being a god like friend and babysitter. There isn’t a way to point out who is doing their ‘job’ the best way.

Let me show You an example.
The game number is 52078690 I was playing emerald warden, along side with flint, silhouette, keeper and nimphora. Playing against a team of defiler, soul stealer, moreaxus, ra & legionair. We somehow manage to care it out, but in the end i had to thank our nimphora. Despite her ending stats, she was our main hero, doing all the warding, going for support items, and helping out everyone. Everyone pat his arm and thank him because even thought stats don’t show it, it was because him, that we won.

MajuiF
07-12-2011, 01:38 PM
I must admit the idea sounds not so stupid, after seeing the rage in a game I played yesterday, and how much people care about their stats.
Quite sad I must say.

I've changed my mind about this subject, big time.


MajuiF actually it would be a pretty nice change to receive a troll and trash talking after the game, instead of during the pick phase or in the match.
I said it would be delayed and will occur in-game. People always use the All-Chat to comment on whatever the opposing team is doing. I've read some interesting suggestions on restricting the All-Chat use because I am, too, tired of the rage and trolling in HoN.
HoN's community is far worse than DotA, precisely because you can see each-others' statistics.


Detail stats should be put on private, or occasionally on friend invite only if You really care so much about publishing them. Bringing them to a persons face doesnít help in any way in integrating the team, on the contrary it brings more hate and prejudgment then anything else.
Why? Because they are imperfect, and yes there isnít a way to put in stats how many times did You kill steal or were kill robed. Or if You sacrificed for the team, saving Your team mate, being a god like friend and babysitter. There isnít a way to point out who is doing their Ďjobí the best way.
I don't think it would be as simple as that. I agree that statistics are quite misleading sometimes, where a 2.0 KDr could just be KSing all the time and/or stomping noobs all day, and be a really really bad overall player.
However, as I said, I always enjoy having an idea of who I'm playing with, more than who I'm playing against. But at the same time, I wouldn't mind myself not knowing who is better and who isn't (starting items usually indicate the skill of a player - boots first or a bottle first on War Beast, for example).

I think the real skill goes through CK, CD, Wards, Neutral kills, Courier purchase, APM, GPM et XPM. I only look at KDr to get an overall idea of a player, then look at those stats, which are usually super super low for players with low skill.

Upon reading the thread, my answers and upon playing a trashtalk-heavy game yesterday, I've changed my mind, and I approve the idea :)

Talking about yesterday's game : a bottle-first War Beast kept trash talking all game because he was winning, and "laughing" at me when I ran away from him as Chipper. It's true, who would run from a War Beast with Shrunken Head activated while in wolf-form.

But seriously, calling me a troll because I give my opinion is quite inappropriate.

PetriPure
07-12-2011, 07:08 PM
You made quite a post, but i'll let myself answer only on the last part. I didn't call You a troll because You posted Your opinion. It was the cocky attitude, and negative energy, alongside the lack of subjective evaluation of the problem, that You were so convince of knowing what's best, made me consider You a troll.

In the end i'm happy to see You change Your point of view, seeking both the bad and 'good' sides of my solution. But then again 'everyone is smart after the harm'. Let's hope that more people will think twice before taking a step, or no, let's say it otherwise; let's hope that more people will be able to put themself in place of those that feel aggrieved.

MajuiF
07-12-2011, 11:58 PM
You made quite a post, but i'll let myself answer only on the last part. I didn't call You a troll because You posted Your opinion. It was the cocky attitude, and negative energy, alongside the lack of subjective evaluation of the problem, that You were so convince of knowing what's best, made me consider You a troll.
I'm an impulsive person. When I see something that boggles my mind, I'll answer it right away. It's only when I take some time to think about it that I'll moderate my thoughts.

But once again, my bad if it gave the impression of being a troll. Only thr fact your parallels with real life and HoN were somewhat "disturbing" me in a way.
But good ideas overall, you should put a link of your threads in your signature, they're worth reading.

PS: You should also put TL;DR at the end of your posts (some people can't stand walls of text).

:)

PetriPure
07-13-2011, 05:23 AM
You're not the only person that takes things so personaly and reacts out of mind rush, instead of actually considering on which side they are before posting. Perhaps You could help me by telling Your story on the 'TCMF' in general discussion. Maybe it would convince some other people, and one in particular called ‘Corpsy’, I’m sure You’ll find something in common.

I know that some people can’t read a wall of text, that’s only a part of every day struggle. I gave my best to make the text as much appealing as I could, the rest is up to community. And yes, it’s a part of every person right to ‘not give a damn’ about things they see and ignore. After all, right now while we speak hundred if not thousand babies in Africa are dying from hunger.

EDIT
Thank You for the compliment about my threads, but i wouldn't say i'm proud of all of them. For example the Codex Reworked, i change my mind during the voting. I still consider it unbalance but my rework idea wasn't really the answer. Or Customer Rating in Match Making, that was my first attempt of 'TCMF' thread, only made it more complicated. Apparently heading the wrong direction there.

IsmaelVera
07-13-2011, 01:51 PM
Love it.
:balp:

SaM``
07-13-2011, 02:35 PM
Dota had no stats and people raged anyways.

Sorry, it is not the stats or the community itself, it is the genre that creates that issue and it will not change. The game is extremely team dependent and it doesn't matter how good a player is, he will still lose if he gets anticarried, and thats why people rage so much.

PetriPure
07-13-2011, 03:54 PM
We are half the way with votes. We can make it, we can push this thread to most popular suggestions. (^_^)

Ironfury
07-26-2011, 11:01 PM
Sounds like a good idea from here.

At least the option to make stats private should be implemented.